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The Latest From the Front in the Console Wars

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the look-out-for-low-flying-sales-figures dept.

Wii 284

The October NPD numbers are out, and (now that we know we'll keep getting the information) it's time once again for analysis and reaction from media and businesses alike. GameDaily has a one year later look at the fight that began last holiday season. As for the numbers themselves, with Halo 3 now a known quantity in the market the 360 is down to 366,000 from 527,800 in September. Microsoft is still quite happy with software sales, though. The PS3 only saw 121,000 units sold last month, but early news from November has Sony very excited. And all the while, somehow, the Wii manages to sell even more units. The system is up to 519,000 from 501,000 in September, with the DS slight down to 458,000 from 495,800. As the GameDaily analysis article concludes: "the race for console dominance is still anyone's to win. The 2007 holiday buying season will be crucial to setting all three players' market positions going into next year. Which is all nice to know, of course, but not that important to actually enjoying your system of choice well into the future."

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Wiiiii! (2, Interesting)

Kenoli (934612) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378465)

the race for console dominance is still anyone's to win

I disagree.

Re:Wiiiii! (5, Interesting)

achilles777033 (1090811) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378523)

Maybe. I tend to agree, but the article had a couple good points. if Wii owners don't keep buying games, did Nintendo really win? Also, Final Fantasy is likely to sell a lot of Playstations. Many FF fans are in the same category of rabid loyalty as Halo fans, and they'll shell out the green just to play the next one.

Re:Wiiiii! (2, Informative)

nomadic (141991) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378617)

if Wii owners don't keep buying games

It would be very possible. I got a wii about 2 months ago and I've bought a single wii game since then. I want to buy more, I eagerly scan the videogame store shelf every week, but the games tend to be underwhelming at best.

Re:Wiiiii! (2, Informative)

Zelos (1050172) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378767)

There's Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3 out at the moment,both fantastic games, plus Zak&Wiki (in the US, 2008 EU). Personally, I've also bought and enjoyed (in order of decreasing greatness):

Mario Strikers
Excite Truck
RE4:Wii
Warioware
Eledees
Super Paper Mario

and I'm looking forward to Super Smash Bros Brawl, Battalion Wars 2, Mario Kart Wii and maybe Resident Evil:UC.

Re:Wiiiii! (3, Informative)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379499)

It would be very possible. I got a wii about 2 months ago and I've bought a single wii game since then. I want to buy more, I eagerly scan the videogame store shelf every week, but the games tend to be underwhelming at best.

Count yourself lucky you have a Wii, I can't buy one in the UK for love nor money. The shops in London all get small batches which sell out on the day they come in.

For games, check out the Wii section of Metacritic [metacritic.com] . If you stick with only the green rated games, you're looking at Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Resident Evil 4, Metroid and Zack & Wiki as 5 to start off with.

Re:Wiiiii! (4, Interesting)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378633)

Yes, Nintendo won even if people stop buying games for it. It's the third party developers that get screwed at that point. That being said I don't think that will be the case though. The Wii is in an adjustment period. The DS went through the same thing. Developers are still trying to adapt to the system and find out what does and does not work with it. When the DS first came out the only decent games were for the most part created by Nintendo with most of the third party games being mediocre. The Wii is going through the same thing now. Almost all the good games are by Nintendo with the third party items (for the most part) being decidedly mediocre. With luck however the developers will pull through and we'll start to see games from third parties soon every bit as polished and fun as Nintendo's own offerings.

Re:Wiiiii! (2, Interesting)

brkello (642429) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380167)

Using your qualifications, Nintendo won with the Gamecube as well since it was always profitable. Really, the market can support 3 winners. A loser is going to be someone who is forced out of the market. All 3 look strong enough to last another round after this one. Nintendo is moving consoles. The 360 is moving games. The PS3 has a bit to catch up but has superior hardware. Hopefully at some point I will own all 3 (but not until prices drop).

Re:Wiiiii! (4, Insightful)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380251)

Using your qualifications, Nintendo won with the Gamecube as well since it was always profitable. Really, the market can support 3 winners. A loser is going to be someone who is forced out of the market. All 3 look strong enough to last another round after this one. Nintendo is moving consoles. The 360 is moving games. The PS3 has a bit to catch up but has superior hardware. Hopefully at some point I will own all 3 (but not until prices drop).
I'd really like to see a three way horse race. Consumers win with competition and we have a pretty fierce one right now. It'll mean cheaper systems and hopefully better quality systems. I have 2 of the 3 (PS3, Wii). I may pick up a 360 for mass effect. Right now each side seems to specialize in different games. I enjoy this and hope they keep it up.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380467)

Using your qualifications, Nintendo won with the Gamecube as well since it was always profitable. Really, the market can support 3 winners. A loser is going to be someone who is forced out of the market. All 3 look strong enough to last another round after this one.
I think you're talking about the difference between the battle and the war. Nintendo is looking to be the winner of this round, with Microsoft and Sony fighting over second and third place. Of course things may very well reverse with the next generation of consoles, after all Nintendo was a distant third in the previous generation with Sony the undisputed champion. By your criteria no companies besides Sega and Atari have ever lost (and maybe not even then, Sega is still in business and making games, just not hardware).

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378637)

But why would Wii owners stop buying games?

Also, as an FF fan, I can say XIII will be the first FF I don't buy - Not worth spending the money on a PS3 for.

Re:Wiiiii! (4, Insightful)

tbannist (230135) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378903)

You've got it backwards. The majority of the Wii target audience aren't gamers, the proper question is "Why would they start buying games"?

The "big games" are still all aimed at the PS3 and the 360 because that's where the gamers will end up. The Wii could end up moving the most hardware, but end up selling fewer games than the PS3 or the 360. That's the danger of selling your console to a very, very casual set of gamers who might never feel the need to buy another game for their console after they've found one they enjoy diddling with.

Re:Wiiiii! (2, Insightful)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379037)

I have quite a few friends who, like me, have young kids and haven't bought a console for quite a while, and they now have a wii. Their kids will keep them buying games. If game sales are soft now, it's not because wii owners are too 'casual' to want new games - it's because the game makers completely missed the boat on this platform and are still catching up.
 
It is still hard to find a wii at stores. They are still going for way above retail at amazon. And that's not bundles. I don't think with a user base as large as they'll have - I don't think selling software is going to be a huge issue. On top of that - they make money off the console right from the get go.

Re:Wiiiii! (2, Interesting)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379043)

Interesting. Admittedly a lot of Wii user are not hardcore gamers (but have many games targetting them, that they do buy), but there are a lot of gamers that buy Wiis also. Do you have numbers to back up your statement that most aren't gamers?

(I can think of more gamers I know that have Wiis than have and/or want PS3s, and even more than want Wiis than those that want 360s/PS3s combined.

I know a few non-gamers that want Wiis, none that want PS3s, and only a couple that want 360s.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379221)

I'm in that last boat.
I generally am not a gamer, but I love Halo. I bought a 360 the other day just to play Halo3. $450 for a fscking video game... Geeze. On the bright side, I still don't have to consider more RAM, or the latest top end video card for my PC because I don't need it to support games there, so I suppose it's a wash.
-nB

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

anti-human 1 (911677) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379799)

Ha!

I dropped $450 on a Macintosh G3 tower (400 mhz) years back mainly to play Escape Velocity [ambrosiasw.com] . Of course, I've OC'd it to 450 mhz, and installed OS X on it. At the time it was the most ridiculous purchase for a single game I've ever made. Its still the most current Mac I own (until Xmas ;).

Re:Wiiiii! (0, Redundant)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379675)

Um, I'm a gamer, and I haven't had a console since the SNES. My wife got me the Wii last March, and I've been playing it almost everyday. I have seven or so Wii games, and then five or some GameCube games (the Resident Evil series). Except for Zelda, I haven't purchased a single Nintendo game. I'm simply waiting for the third party developers to release games. That said, Tomb Raider just came out and I plan to pick that up, and I may pick up RE: UC. I'm currently having fun with MK: A though, but I'll certainly be getting more good games. I may even rent Manhunt2 to see if its any good.

Re:Wiiiii! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21380203)

Um, I'm a gamer
s/mer/y/

The Wii's dirty little secert. (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379885)

I hate to even post this because it could cause many "hard core" gamers and teenage boys that currently like the Wii to toss it in the trash.
The Wii is still a big hit and is still the thing for Christmas this year. My wife is on several scrapbooking message boards. This of sort of like slashdot for moms. Guess what they are all trying to find for there kids this Christmas? It isn't the PS3. Now for the really bad news. The women on these boards love the Wii! Some of them are "test" playing it themselves. Top it off with the fact that one of the favorite games for these women is Guitar Hero III.

Re:Wiiiii! (3, Interesting)

Loosifur (954968) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380491)

I don't know if I qualify as a hard-core gamer, whatever that is. I own a Cube, an Xbox, a PS2, a DS, a PC whose primary use is gaming, and I just got a Wii for my birthday a few months ago. I spend about $100 a month on games, maybe $750 on average for PC hardware. So that's where I'm coming from. I don't own any Halo t-shirts, though, so I'm not sure if I'd pass. That being said, I spend about three hours a day, more on weekends, playing video games. From this perspective, I gotta say the only console I was interested in was the Wii.

The way I saw it, and the way I still see it, all the other consoles are basically hamstrung PCs. Games aside, I could build a computer that did everything the PS3 does, hook up a controller to it, and have the exact same experience. The Wii, while not as beefy hardware-wise, has the whole control system going for it. So from my pseudo-hardcore perspective, I have the option of dropping several hundred dollars on a console and dropping several hundred dollars in to my computer to gain access to essentially two overlapping libraries of games (since, especially with the 360, many of the big games are available on PC), or spend a couple hundred on a console and several hundred on my computer and have access to two rather different libraries of games. Easy choice for me.

Now, Nintendo is grabbing up market share by selling to the casual gamer crowd with both the Wii and the DS. If you look at the ads for the Wii, they're basically saying to the consumer, "A console is a centerpiece in your entertainment center or living room. Buy a 360 or a PS3 and you'll have a rather expensive additional DVD player and have to hope that whichever one you buy is using the standard (HD or Blu-ray) that becomes dominant. And you'll need an HD tv to get the most out of it. And all the games are geared toward teenage boys and college students. Buy a Wii, on the other hand, and not only will you save money, but you can use it with the television you already have. You won't be able to play movies on it, but you probably don't need another DVD player. And, you can play games with everyone in your family. And furthermore, these games are physically active, so you won't feel bad about your kids playing them." It's working because any "hardcore" gamers who want the Wii already have it, and they're waiting for 3rd party developers to get on board, which they are, and to see more adult-oriented (read: violent) games to be released, which they also are, albeit slowly. They really needed the parents to get behind them. Even the price is geared toward reluctant parents and older adults in that it's not such an expensive commitment as a 360 or, god forbid, a PS3.

As a caveat, let me just say that as fanboish as that sounded, I personally like both of the other consoles, and if they were cheaper I'd probably pick them up. I'm just saying that, for my part, the Wii has the most bang for the buck, and I know that my girlfriend, based on fights we've had, definitely considers me a "hardcore" gamer.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379707)

But why would Wii owners stop buying games?
Because they are different people from those who traditionally bought consoles. I have bought about $15,000 in games, consoles, and accessories in the last 5 years. My sister who bought a wii and GF who wanted me to get a wii have yet to get another game aside from wii sports.

Re:Wiiiii! (5, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378755)

if Wii owners don't keep buying games, did Nintendo really win?

Yes, actually. Because Nintendo made a profit on the Wii from Day #1. As other console manufacturers optimize their manufacturing costs to produce their consoles at a lower loss (or simply reduce the street price and take the same loss), Nintendo's profit margins simply grow as they optimize their processes. Thus Nintendo "wins" regardless.

The real question is, what happens to the game producers? The argument exists that if the Wii wins, all we'll end up with is Mario and Wii Sports. To which I think it's important to turn around that argument and look at it from another angle. Nintendo currently has about 14 million consoles out there, and a shipped Wii is effectively a sold Wii. Thus the Wii presents a tremendous opportunity to game producers.

This huge market payed $250 for Wii Sports. As a game producer, it then becomes your job to understand that market and produce more content for it. More to the point, it becomes the job of game producers to produce content that the market wants. Wii players are less likely to want Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty 4. (Oh look, another military FPS! Who would have thought?) So stop trying to sell them the same games you've been selling teenage boys, and start doing some market research. Make games that are compelling to the casual market, and you will win.

The best part? You don't even have to spend tens of millions on the game! A sizable sum of Wii players are attracted to casual games, which have far, far lower budgets than the so-called "triple-A" titles. Perhaps this generation could even see the downloadable game surpassing the sales of the traditional shrink-wrapped game. (If Nintendo ever gets off their butts and offers WiiWare games, that is. :P)

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378855)

I got the Wii because it was cheap enough and appealing enough for me to convince my wife ti was worth buying. I would love Assasin's Creed and COD4, and would buy the first on day one (assuming of course it plays well, and isn't gimped in gamplay (lower graphics are fine). I don't know if it is possibly to match gameplay depth from 360 to Wii, especially for a sanbox style game, but if it were I would be all-over it.

There has to be a lot of one gamer families that got a Wii (of course maybe 360 is cheap enough now that they have that too).

COD4 I would be less excited about but pick up when it was a "classic hit" or what not.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378921)

Wii players are less likely to want Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty 4. (Oh look, another military FPS! Who would have thought?) So stop trying to sell them the same games you've been selling teenage boys, and start doing some market research. Make games that are compelling to the casual market, and you will win.

Actually that's not even entirely true. One of my favorite games so far has been Metroid Prime 3, which is arguably yet another FPS. The big difference however is that it isn't a retooled and hastily assembled port of some existing FPS, but rather one that was built from the ground up to work well with the control scheme of the Wii. Customers want a game that has a decent design, but more importantly one that respects and understands the controls the Wii can provide. As a counter example look at Lair for the PS3. By all accounts the games motion controls were slapped on last minute at the insistence of Sony and ruined an otherwise promising game. Almost all the reviews said the same thing, the story was decent, the game play premise was also passable, but the game suffered from some moderate lag at times, and worst of all the motion controls you were forced to use were terrible. Similarly I bought redsteel when I picked up my Wii, and although the game was at best mediocre in concept, it faired much worse in the controls. After the 10th time getting killed because my character decided to stop and spinning around while staring at the sky I just quit playing that game and haven't touched it since.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

absoluteflatness (913952) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379233)

Nintendo is in a very good position right now, but if you ask me, they already need to be looking to the next console/upgrade. Both Sony and Microsoft are looking to make this console generation a long one, and consumers will probably expect it with the kind of investment they made in a console. Nintendo, however, is in a position where they could reasonably offer some kind of incremental upgrade to the Wii in a few years (not to mention adding say, colors and DVD support). A backwards-compatible Wii2 could create an interesting situation, where the "pick up and play" casual games could be released for the Wii, while the more powerful Wii2 could court cross-platform titles and harder-core gamers. Such a situation is probably just a pipe dream, though (I'm not sure if developers would stay with the old console, even if graphics were the only main difference, and especially the casual gamers could feel betrayed by the release of a Wii "upgrade").

The other strong feeling I have about Nintendo is that they need to take another look at how they're going to support online gaming. It hasn't been too much of an issue yet, mostly because Nintendo seems mostly uninterested in online play, but the "friend code" system seems to me to be unnecessarily unwieldy. I'm somewhat at a loss as to what "security" an annoying alphanumeric code provides you above a "name" you choose yourself. You could still require two-way approval for adding to any friend lists or the like. I presume that in this case, the appearance of family-friendliness is more important to Nintendo than convenience. Then again, Nintendo's now behind by about two generations on any serious online play, and they seem to be doing all right regardless, so maybe it's just a personal issue for me.

Re:Wiiiii! (2, Interesting)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379741)

I agree that for you and me the friend code idea sucks ass, but I think I see where Nintendo is coming from.

Historically, Nintendo has marketed their systems to kids (including me; I'm just a big 30-year old kid). Think about all of the trouble that MySpace, Facebook, and others get from the media and government when a child predator gets his hands on a minor. My sense is that Nintendo would prefer to avoid even 1 story about a pedophile using the Wii to prey on children, even if it means not treating the rest of us as adults.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

absoluteflatness (913952) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380223)

Part of me thinks that if parents are really so worried about children's access to the internet like that, then there should just be no E-rated games that have online support (as fun as Mario Kart DS is). I don't quite understand the fervor over this. To date myself (as fairly recent), I was playing games on Battle.net when I was a kid, and I don't remember any public outcry against it. Same for Xbox Live.

Are stupid stories like Nintendo DS predators or the "Playstation Pornable" just artifacts of recent times? I suspect desire to stay out of the news motivates the lack of multiplayer in some Nintendo games. Why isn't there, for example, multiplayer (even local) support anywhere in the Metroid Prime series? Even something of mediocre quality where powerups for Samus are scattered around a map seems like it would be pretty trivial to throw together. Aside from their franchises specifically made for multiplayer (I'm looking at you, Super Smash Bros., Mario Party and Mario Kart), multiplay seems to be mostly ignored in the house of Nintendo.

Argh, whatever. I blame the sensationalist media and so forth.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380451)

Yes, definitely -- sensationalist media is to blame...but let's not let the pedophiles off-the-hook either. Ever heard the saying "if this prevents just one (insert tragedy here), it was worth it." I can see American conservatives not buying a Wii over just one of these stories, even though it hurts the rest of us "normal" (I use the term loosely ;-) )people.

Battle.net is a great example of one of the first built-in multiplayer game systems on the Internet...as I recall Diablo was the first game that featured it and I played it to death as well. Great times for the first two weeks, until the hackers blew its doors off.

I have to admit that Microsoft has done a great job with XBL, though I despise them for their "gold" vs. "silver" and "pay" vs. "free" distinction. Does battle.net not do most of those things (except voice chat over 56K modems) on the PC?

I don't see Nintendo (or any good developer) doing anything mediocre with one of their franchise series (e.g. Metroid)...if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. Mario Kart for the Wii is going to feature online play, right? Madden 2008 supports online play on the Wii, as does Mario Strikers (soccer) on the Wii. Have you checked out Strikers? It's awesome as a single player game, with friends, and as an online game. The good online players are such masters of the game that they manage to score goals in ways that the original makers never even intended...it really makes you change your defensive strategy.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

edwdig (47888) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380483)

Why isn't there, for example, multiplayer (even local) support anywhere in the Metroid Prime series? Even something of mediocre quality where powerups for Samus are scattered around a map seems like it would be pretty trivial to throw together.

They did that in Metroid Prime 2, largely due to the rather vocal "It's an FPS and I won't play an FPS without multiplayer" crowd. The people that used lack of multiplayer as their excuse for not playing still didn't like the game, as the single player nothing like an FPS, and they didn't like the multiplayer because it was mediocre.

And the people that liked Metroid to begin with mostly just ignored the multiplayer mode.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

yanos (633109) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378911)

I'm not so sure about the effect of FF will have on PS3. Sure, it will sell alot of hardware for sony, but I remember square annoncing that there will be multiple versions of FF13 for nearly all platforms. The main or 'real' FF13 is still exclusive to the PS3, but if you also have multiple spin off on the wii, xbox and even ds (if I remember well), the effect it will have on sony hardware sale will not be as important as in the past generation, IMO.

There is still Metal Gear solid though...

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379103)

Not entirely certain about the Wii, but I know the DS version is based on the Crystal Chronicles FF universe as opposed to the more traditional FF games. Some people hated Crystal Chronicles, but I and several of my friends really enjoyed it, so I'm looking forward to the new versions for the Wii and DS (I know there's a Wii version of it planned, but not sure if any of the more traditional FF games such as XIII will be released for it).

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

SethraLavode (910814) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379463)

Most of the people I've talked to who hated Crystal Chronicles never actually played it, and hated it based on the multiplayer setup and the fact that it was more action-driven. I enjoyed it a lot, but I do have to agree that it is tricky to get the scheduling down for multiplayer. I really hope Square does online for the Wii incarnation.

It looks like Wii will be getting at least two Crystal Chronicles titles, one standard and one WiiWare. From what I've read, it also looks like they may be trying to make the CC games all part of the same unified world, similar to Ivalice. In any case, Square seems to be more interested in expanding the mainline FF titles going forward, so there will probably be a Wii game as part of the FF14 "franchise".

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379749)

I'm not so sure about the effect of FF will have on PS3. Sure, it will sell alot of hardware for sony, but I remember square annoncing that there will be multiple versions of FF13 for nearly all platforms. The main or 'real' FF13 is still exclusive to the PS3, but if you also have multiple spin off on the wii, xbox and even ds (if I remember well), the effect it will have on sony hardware sale will not be as important as in the past generation, IMO.

There is still Metal Gear solid though.../quote>

Ever play any of the mainline spin offs of FF (FFX-2).. yeah.... I doubt that has any impact. People buy the mainline. Spin offs cash in but aren't the same.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Dragon of the Pants (913545) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379479)

if Wii owners don't keep buying games, did Nintendo really win?
Um, yes? Nintendo makes fucktons of money from hardware alone.

Also, Final Fantasy is likely to sell a lot of Playstations Many FF fans are in the same category of rabid loyalty as Halo fans, and they'll shell out the green just to play the next one.
Except the Wii is still winning, even after Halo 3 came out and the 360 had a year head-start. So I don't know exactly how that helps.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Altus (1034) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379903)


From what I understand (and I could be mistaken) Nintendo actually makes money on the Wii hardware. So yea, they probably make out pretty well regardless.

If more companies would start making good games for the huge Nintendo install base I think you would see more games being purchased. I think there is a lot of money to be made on the Wii both in traditional games and in cheaper, smaller games. I'm a big fan of Wii sports but I would probably pay 20-30 bucks each for a more fully fleshed out version of each sport. They wouldn't have to be huge games (though golf and baseball are probably better served by the big name EA games) AMF bowling comes outs soon and for 20 bucks I might just pick it up. I'm looking forward to a real baseball game on the Wii as well if it is done well.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

gravis777 (123605) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378589)

I am waiting to see the November sales figures. Sony has really been pulling out the advertising lately, has had a couple of kick-ass system exclusives, and had a huge price drop (at the cost of loosing backwards combatability). I am really interested to see how Sony's plan worked out.

And its amazing that over a year after the introduction, people still wait in lines to get Wii's. I just happened to go to the store on the right day and got mine..

Re:Wiiiii! (0)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378711)

I think you'll find Sony's move is too little too late. At this point they're just hoping to stay in the game long enough to slide into a third place finish, or if they're really really lucky rally back and tie for second. It's a shame too, I used to be a big fan of the PS2 and was really looking forward to the PS3, but then they announced the price and I said screw that. At this point I'm happy with my Wii (pre-ordered, so I had mine on launch day), and I've been eyeballing a 360 so I might grab one of those, particularly it they have another price drop, but even with the reduced price the PS3 just isn't appealing at this point.

Re:Wiiiii! (3, Interesting)

usul294 (1163169) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378625)

Exactly, has anyone played Mario galaxy? Point-set-match. Owning both Halo 3 and Galaxy, Galaxy is by far a superior game. Halo 3 is great, but is a stepped up Halo 2, and doesn't try to do anything new, I played it every night when it first came out, but now its down to a night per week or so, which is how much I was playing Halo 2 when Halo 3 came out. Anyways, Wii also has the fantastic quality of having a buzz about how cool it is. What does this mean? Its a magnet for getting girls to come to my dorm room. "Oh, you have a Wii, guy I met yesterday, we should get together and play that sometime." Its happened at least 6 times to me in the past year. The Wii get-together also makes a great follow-up date, because its laid back, fun, and is a good way to get to know someone.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378697)

I can understand why you might like Galaxy more than Halo 3, but can you really say it's a better game the way that you are?

Halo is a sci-fi first person shoot everything game. Galaxy is a time your jump find all the stars while doing fun acrobatic movements game.

Two very VERY different games.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

GreyyGuy (91753) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379105)

Two different games, but people are still playing the original Super Mario Brothers games that are nearly 20 years old. Because they are fun. Do you see people playing Halo 3 in 20 years?

That is what makes a better game.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379133)

No, that is what makes a longer lasting game...case in point, people still love Grease...does that mean it is a better movie than Children of Men?

Exactly. You can't make that comparison.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

tilandal (1004811) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379533)

People still Like Beethoven, does that make him a better artist then Justin Timberlake? I contend it does.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379703)

Some people still like Hitler...does that make him better than Stalin?

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379985)

Pojut, I really do enjoy your posts in general and I see that you're trying to make your point, but I'll tell you that this one stings...quite a bit. The truth hurts sometimes, but damn!

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380423)

People still Like Beethoven, does that make him a better artist then Justin Timberlake? I contend it does.
More people are into Timberlake then Beethoven. Does that mean anything? I think Pachabels Cannons is the most perfect song in all existence but sometimes I need to put on some NIN. They're different beasts, both have qualities and values and while we may not play Closer 500 years from now it is still a good song. Cannons and Closer both capture a portion of what it is to be human. Even the syrupy love songs by bland generic pop stars have some value.

The thing about people playing Super Mario, it's nostalgia. My little brother can't get into it Super Mario 1 because it lacks a lot of the things he's used to. Mario 3 he might play but Counter strike wins his attention more often then anything else. I play FF1 once in a while and in truth compared to whats out today it was a very frustrating game. I play A Street fighter II often but really it's not as well designed as SFIII. They're all classic games but our replay of it is motivated by many factors, other then the quality of the game.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

GreyyGuy (91753) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380237)

Hmm... let's see.

Grease: movie adoptation of a musical that inspired multiple movies and stage revivals over decades, has sold strong for decades in multiple video and audio formats, nominated for multiple awards including an Oscar. According to IMDB, cost approximately $6M. Grossed $181M in the US for the 20th anniversary re-release, with $93M in rentals.

Children of Men: a movie adoptation of a book. No sequels to the book or movie. Nominated for many more awards (though in the interest of fairness, there are many, many more award organizations in 2006 than there were in 1978, and even more categories of Oscars), and won some of them. According to IMDB, cost $76M. Grossed $36M in the US. No rental figures.

Empirically, Children of Men wins on the number of nominations and awards, but Grease wins every other aspect. And the fact that more people have enjoyed Grease would seem to point to that being the more enjoyable film. I realize that opens the argument to how to define "better" but then that starts to get very nitpicky. No one would argue that the direction or visuals for Grease were better then Children of Men, or that Grease had a deeper story. But at the same time no one would argue that Children of Men has had the same timeless, wide-ranging appeal of Grease.

You gave an excellent example, but unfortunately it argues against your point. Both Halo and Children of Men are excellent examples of their genre. But compared to the wider audience of all the genres they are relatively niche examples. Grease and Mario are examples that have enjoyed far more success, despite their relative simplicity.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380389)

Possibly, because of Forge and Multiplayer.

Hell, people still play counterstrike. It's not that unlikely that Halo will last forever.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

mlk (18543) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378645)

I disagree. Go into Game and look at the amount of shelf space given to each console, and each consoles games. Wii - very little for both. PS3 - Hidden at the back of the store (in my locale store the [b]GameCube[/b] got more (and better) space). 360 - Large amount of prime space for both console and games.

The PS3 will need to do something great to push it forward. The Wii is for many a one game console (until Nintendo releases a new game in the Wii Sports range).

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Zelos (1050172) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378845)

It's been interesting watching the shelf space given to the Wii gradually increase. Earlier in the year you could have missed the Wii section entirely if you weren't looking carefully, now it's generally front-and-centre.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

mlk (18543) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379365)

Very true, it did grow quite a bit. From what I have seen this growth has mostly stopped and has been at the expense of the PSP, GBA, PC and PS2. The 360 has remained strong and the PS3 has got what was left from the PS2 space after the Wii had its fill.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

RoverDaddy (869116) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379461)

Just noticed this myself the other day. I was in *cough* Walmart *cough* I believe, looking at the usual single display case of Wii games, when I suddenly realized that the next case over was also -entirely full- of Wii games. The shelf space and selection has definitely gone up.

Re:Wiiiii! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21379629)

If by "front and centre" you mean "smaller than and cowering behind the X-Box section". Not the 360, the _X-Box_.

I don't see why anyone cares. Nintendo makes a profit whether the attach rate is good or bad. They aren't operating in the same market as everyone else. Mario Galaxy's sales in Japan have been "disappointing" compared to the Wii sales themselves, but that was entirely predictable - there are only a certain number of traditional Nintendo Fan-boys in the world and only a small number of the new "casual" fan base will be interested in Mario Galaxy at all. Many of them won't even be able to work out from the title wtf it is. It's incredibly telling that Mario Party sold better.

In a way you have to separate the Wii sales into "new market" and "old market". In the former it's the only competitor (this generation - the PS2 is taking a good run at it) and so it's winning. Hard. In the old market it's not nearly so clear. I think publishers that produce old market titles on the Wii have to prepare for their sales to be disappointing compared to the number of deployed consoles because a very large proportion of those systems are owned by "non-gamers". The danger is that this could become a self-perpetuating problem where publishers cease releasing those games in favour of the mini-game drivel that's being shovelled out at the moment, because it sells in the new market.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Zelos (1050172) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379825)

That's certainly not true in my experience (Norwich&London, England). Wii Kiosks are prominently placed in 2 local GAME shops, along with lots of space given over to Wii games.

Re:Wiiiii! (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378739)

Right on, Kenoli! Nintendo's console is:

1. Less expensive 2. More innovative 3. More fun

Almost every game that Nintendo publishes is a must-have and there are a number of great third-party titles (Resident Evil, Madden, Elebits, Rayman, and Call of Duty come to mind). Now that we all know how excellent Super Mario Galaxy is, there will be a new system-seller this holiday season.

Note that Nintendo has not had to drop the price on the Wii since launch. Surely, manufacturing the system has become less expensive, Nintendo is making even more money from the system, they are producing more Wiis for sale at retail, and still can't keep the system on the shelves!!! [refreshthing.com]

The Wii has over-taken the 360 as this generation's console market leader while selling systems for half as much time [vgchartz.com] .

The ONLY thing the Wii is missing as a game system is high-definition graphics rendering and I expect that Nintendo will give us that in their next generation system, along with highly improved motion control. I can only imagine how much Nintendo's new system will !!!ROCK!!! when that day comes. Quoting the movie 300, "THIS IS SLASHDOT!!!" (err, Sparta) where the Wii rules ;-) .

Re:Wiiiii! (2, Insightful)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378947)

the race for console dominance is still anyone's to win

I disagree.

Why is this modded Troll? Since the Wii has sold the most systems worldwide in this generation (IE: more than the PS3 and 360), and it continues to outsell their competitors by a considerable margin every month (they were only slightly beat out during the Halo 3 launch) wouldn't it be appropriate to say the race is "Nintendo's to lose" ?

IBM (5, Insightful)

flymolo (28723) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379969)

I think the biggest winner in this console war is IBM. They make the chips for all three consoles. With the pretty competitive market they are selling a lot of CPU, and getting handed a lot of research dollars for die shrinks. I also think this market which is a win for IBM and a loss for attach rate.

Somehow? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21378497)

I don't know what's so baffling about the Wii's continued success. They have games that people enjoy playing, and that the family can play together. Quantities are still limited, so it's got the appeal of being hard to get. And it's cheap enough that people don't have that same level of reluctance to purchase if they know they're primarily buying it for one or two games. Throw in the chance for people to buy a lot of the classic games that they grew up with.

Re:Somehow? (1)

Doctor_Jest (688315) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378677)

It's more to do with the tipping point, actually. When does the Wii become "everyone who has one has one, and everyone who wanted one has one...", where naturally the curve will level off? I personally don't want one, but I don't mind if someone else does.. it's just not my bag. Still, with supply shortages plaguing Nintendo, I think some of the rise in demand stems partially from the "scarcity" perception... people who were sitting on the fence (new to gaming) might have thought it a "must buy" solely based on the lack of units in stock at any given retailer. And chances are, they know someone who has one and are getting non-stop anecdotal evidence that the Wii is the best thing since the toaster.

At some point we'll see the leveling off happen, but when and how long it will take to start dipping in sales is anybody's guess. Maybe then those who are trying to find one but have given up will be able to get their Wii. ;)

Re:Somehow? (1)

mdielmann (514750) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379199)

Still, with supply shortages plaguing Nintendo...
I think the only thing hampering Nintendo is the fact that they're selling about 1/3 more than their closest competitor on a regular basis. This isn't so much like a plague of locusts as it is a plague of bags of money raining down on you. I would personally like to experience this plague Nintendo is suffering from, and I don't doubt that Sony would love to have the same problem with their PS3s.

Re:Somehow? (1)

Doctor_Jest (688315) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379881)

It works great initially, but if you consistently cannot meet demand, I think the perception (investor and possibly laymen) will be that you're either holding back some units to create "buzz", or you really can't handle the demand and that will eventually negatively impact things going forward.

They can meet the DS demand shortly after they sold out (different product, I know) and for the most part, they've been good about meeting demands in the past (after inital shortages)... the Wii having shortages into 2008 means they _could_ sell more, but they won't, because they can't get enough in stores...

You're right.. it's like a golden goose, but Nintendo best be sure they don't shoot the goose. :)

Re:Somehow? (1)

mdielmann (514750) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380227)

Well, according to this [bloomberg.com] , Nintendo has apparently increased their production to 1.8M per month, from 1M per month last holiday season, and plans to hold those production numbers for a while into 2008. I think that's reasonable. Apparently no one knows how well the Wii is going to do, not even Nintendo. That sucks from the consumer's end, and probably isn't a comfortable position for Nintendo, either, but a glut on the market can be worse than a shortage (for both the company and the consumer).

Let the "War" continue indefinitely! (1)

wilbz (842093) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378585)

Which is all nice to know, of course, but not that important to actually enjoying your system of choice well into the future.


That's really the only important thing for the future. Fan boys aside, I continue to hope that all three platforms continue to be successful, if only so there continues to be motivation for people to continue making games. Last thing we need is for good developers to end up putting all of their eggs in one basket, only to have the bottom drop out of it.

The ability to choose between consoles is important, even if it might be frustrating to find a game that you really want is exclusive to the one console you don't have. I'd rather have companies vying to make great exclusives that get you to buy their console, rather than diluted cross-platform titles, or a single console with no real motivation to innovate. This so called "war" is a good thing, and the tighter it is, the better for all of us. . . . regardless of our choice of console(s).

Re:Let the "War" continue indefinitely! (1)

cowscows (103644) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379571)

I basically agree with you, it'd be great for gamers in general if three or four years from now the market balance ends up similar to where these consoles are now. Microsoft made a much better product with the original Xbox than I expected, and the 360 has been a decent evolution of their strategy and of console technology. They've got enough market share that they'll have a steady stream of games, and there's some good games available. Hopefully they'll manage to start seeing some significant and consistent profit, and we'll get a third iteration of the Xbox somewhere down the line.

Nintendo has done a great job of rebuilding a bunch of the credibility that they lost over the past two generations, and they've done it by innovating and bringing gamers some really new ways to play games with the DS and the Wii. They are still producing very high quality games in house, and the Wii seems to be following the same pattern that the DS did, so we should start seeing some real quality 3rd party games over the next year. Nintendo was never really in danger of going bankrupt, but the piles of money they're making now means that everyone can be confident that their console support won't die out like the dreamcast did.

Sony is still holding out hope that somehow their PS3 strategy will magically work, but even if it does ultimately make them some money down the road, don't expect them to dominate this generation like they did with the PS2. Hopefully this will force them to remember that gaming is about more than cramming expensive silicon into a fancy plastic case, and they'll be a little more reasonable next time. A few years of humbling at the hands of Sony helped Nintendo find its way to its current position, hopefully Nintendo can return the favor.

Wii - A passing fad? (5, Insightful)

ironwill96 (736883) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378593)

I got a hold of a Wii from a friend for "long-term" borrowing pretty early on after launch and kept it for about 5 months. Initially I had a ton of fun playing Wii Sports just about every night, I even rented games like Red Steel and Wario etc to try out the software for the system. I was unimpressed in general with the types of games they were putting out on the system, just like when I owned a Gamecube and only loved Rogue Squadron and Eternal Darkness for it. Not being a huge modern metroid game fan, and finding that I was unimpressed with Zelda on the Wii, I eventually passed the console back to my friend and went back to playing my 360 / PC.

I guess it all boils down to the type of software made for a particular system, but the article's analysis of software attach rate was interesting in that the Wii's is so low. I do continue to buy games for my 360 even 2 years later (Gears of War, PGR 4, Halo 3, Bioshock, Mass Effect, AC etc) yet nothing but Mario would interest me on the Wii right now. Many of my friends have the same opinions and the initial fad of playing Wii sports has worn off. Plus, its pretty bad that the most popular game on your system is the one you give away for free with the system (yes, everyone has it so they likely try it, but still, in my experience it was by far the most fun to be had on the Wii at least through when I gave the console back to my friend).

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (4, Interesting)

ThirdPrize (938147) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378695)

Yeah, I can imagine the multi player Wii experience is fun but what about single player? What about when you have had a hard day at work and just want to crash out and play something for a bit? I think I would feel a bit silly doing the whole Wii thing by myself and sometimes you just can't be arsed to jump around.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

The-Bus (138060) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379183)

You don't need to jump around. I've played Wii Sports lying down. It's a bit less fun, but you still play.

I've got a limited number of TV inputs, and the Wii recently lost out to my original Xbox, because I wanted to play RalliSport Challenge 2. It's a fun system, but there's not a lot of software out that's great out there. If its titles were all $20, I'd buy more of them (as I did with the DS).

I do want to try Super Mario Galaxy as well as Zack and Wiki.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378783)

Agreed. Nintendo has really pigeon-holed themselves, to a certain extent. Casual gamers see Nintendo as the Mario company (and to a lesser extent, the Zelda / Donkey Kong / Pokemon company). It will be difficult for them, along with 3rd party developers, to come up with new IPs that will sell more than a few hundred thousand copies. Granted, Super Mario Galaxy will sell millions of Wiis, but without other high quality games that casual gamers will embrace, the Wii risks becoming merely another Gamecube.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

cowscows (103644) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379647)

I can assure you that more people bought the Wii for WiiSports than for Zelda. And WiiSports hardly has any IP in it, the characters are Mii's that the players created themselves.

Sony and MS would kill for an IP like Mario. It's not going to be any harder for anyone to come up with a new IP for the Wii than it will be for the PS3 or the 360.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

aztektum (170569) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378959)

Wait, it actually sold MORE last month than the month before. That's a sign of a dying fad?

I eventually passed the console back to my friend and went back to playing my 360 / PC.
Ah, see perhaps it's more "The Wii isn't my style." than it being a fad that is losing popularity.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (4, Insightful)

GreyyGuy (91753) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378975)

I bought into the idea of the Wii being a "passing fad" for a little while. After all everyone was saying it, and the fact that Nintendo didn't have some huge ramped up production set to crank the consoles out like candy seems to imply they were not sold on it either.

Now, a year after launch and the consoles are still selling off the store shelves in hours. I know some fads can be long, but a year? If it was a fad, and everyone got bored with it quickly, wouldn't there be a huge used market for them? I know they can be found on eBay and everywhere else, but not in huge quantities that a fad would imply.

I think that a lot of the "hardcore" gamers don't like the changes in gameplay that the Wii has. It isn't familiar to them, or they are offended that there are not more twitch FPS or RTS games for the Wii so it "obviously" isn't geared towards them. Instead people that were turned off by the twitch games are picking it up and enjoying it.

So it might be a fad for people that camp out overnight to get the latest and greatest consoles, but it is a hit with people that want to have some fun with a game and not just have the latest game to beat, or who want to play who has the bigger... frame rate.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (4, Insightful)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379413)

I think that a lot of the "hardcore" gamers don't like the changes in gameplay that the Wii has. It isn't familiar to them, or they are offended that there are not more twitch FPS or RTS games for the Wii so it "obviously" isn't geared towards them. Instead people that were turned off by the twitch games are picking it up and enjoying it.
I think you got it flipped. Hardcore gamers are all too familiar with the games as they aren't all that new, just old games repackaged for the wii mote. You can't tell me anything in Rayman hasn't been done in numerous arcades and other machines. Ditto with the majority of the rest of the library. They use the wii mote either as a really clumsy mouse, a sort of slow light gun, replace button mashing with vigorous shaking etc.. Some do it better then others but it isn't all that new. The under lying game play is old, as old as gaming. Thats what we object to the shallowness and sense of deja vu. I have a wii but I buy games for the DS and PS3 at a 3:1 rate to the wii (3 DS and 3 PS3 to 1 wii) games because there aren't that many games to appeal to me. Maybe fire emblem.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (0)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379583)

I buy games for the...PS3 at a 3:1 rate to the wii
And you've done that for, what, one month?

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (3, Insightful)

Nevyn (5505) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379649)

Hardcore gamers are all too familiar with the games as they aren't all that new, just old games repackaged for the wii mote.

I could say the same thing about every game available on every other platform, but replace controls with slightly better graphics. And while the Wii type controls have been available in specialized arcade games, this is the first usable play at home system. So personally I've spent more on Wii disk games than any other console, maybe more on Wii VC games (I kind of dread to add that up), and I fully expected to reward Nintendo for wanting to produce a good games console instead of a good number crunching machine.

I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have it's faults, but to pretend all the "hardcore" gamers have your opinion of it is just wishful thinking on your part. I'll be much happier if both the Xbox-360 and PS3 die horribly in the marketplace, as then we might actually get quality games and innovation in the next gen. instead of "Ohh, we have X% more polys for Y% more $".

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379851)

I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have it's faults, but to pretend all the "hardcore" gamers have your opinion of it is just wishful thinking on your part. I'll be much happier if both the Xbox-360 and PS3 die horribly in the marketplace, as then we might actually get quality games and innovation in the next gen. instead of "Ohh, we have X% more polys for Y% more $".
I'd prefer if all 3 have a good solid run. Monopolies are never good for gamers. I think a game like katamari damacy is much more innovative then wario ware, mario party, Zelda:TP, Metroid 3. That game exists on the360 and PS2. So your sort of got a skewed view of innovation. The Wii has potential but even the first party titles aren't tapping into it that much.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

GreyyGuy (91753) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379855)

You are right. There have never been FPS games or RTS games like ones on the PS3.

Come on.

And I believe the rate of game purchase, but at the same time will point out that the PS3 has huge 3rd party contributors while the Wii does not. I would even bet that the rate of new games is probably close to 3 to 1 for PS3 to Wii. That should be changing next year as more games are released for the Wii after the developers realized they missed the boat on the popularity of it.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380165)

You are right. There have never been FPS games or RTS games like ones on the PS3.

Come on.

And I believe the rate of game purchase, but at the same time will point out that the PS3 has huge 3rd party contributors while the Wii does not. I would even bet that the rate of new games is probably close to 3 to 1 for PS3 to Wii. That should be changing next year as more games are released for the Wii after the developers realized they missed the boat on the popularity of it.
Tell me what was the last movie you really enjoyed. Now tell me how innovative it was. Chances are it's basically the same story as a dozen other movies but just done well. Tell me the last experimental college film you really enjoyed? Innovation is often fun when it's small and incremental and followed by a lot of polish. Innovation itself does not induce fun and innovation is often terrible. Lair did have a innovative control system but done really poorly.

A game like assassins creed is innovative in a number of ways but it's wrapped up in a fairly slick package. COD4 does in fact attempt to innovate with a semi-RPG style class system. You can't tell me portal from the Half-life orange box wasn't innovative. Eye of judgment is fairly innovative. Even Halo 3 has a few multi-player innovations.

Wii doesn't have monopoly on fun or innovation. It's just got positive karma and buzz. Whether the buzz is hype or real remains to be seen. So far I am not impressed.

Just sold mine (2, Interesting)

Fross (83754) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378985)

The market is good so I just sold my Wii to fund a PC upgrade. Why? I'm afraid it's a boring reason - I'm just not a console player, when I want to game, I want to play on the PC. Just couldn't get comfortable gaming on the sofa on the TV.

I have to say the Wii is the most varied and interesting console playing experience I've come across. It has games that focus on the wiimote, some of them are good, a lot of them are gimmicky. People who only play those, are going to be disappointed eventually. But it also has good games that don't use it, like more regular console games. One that uses the wiimote just a little (but does it well) but is more like a conventional game, is Mario Strikers Charged. The Wiimote minigame was an improvement on the original, but otherwise, it was a straight console type game, and a good one at that.

Zelda wasn't so much of a killer app as a killer *launch* app, it's great, but people are talking more about Wii Sports now, it's had better longevity (in the public eye, if not with each player. Though I have to say it's the game I'll miss the most). Super Mario Galaxy looks like it will be an absolute must-have, everyone is raving about it already, and its unique presentation and (again) minimal-but-useful use of the Wiimote will attract people in droves. I think this will be bigger than Halo 3 was for the 360.

Sometimes I think Nintendo doesn't want to publish "Hardcore" games, because their presence might detract from the casual image of the Wii, but I imagine they will do more of those with time, once the concept of the Wiimote style control is more embedded in people's minds. Mario coming out a year after launch and Brawl soon are good examples of this.

Suffice to say, if I'm at someone else's place and a 360 is on, I'll watch and be amazed by the graphics, but if a Wii is on, I'll probably get up and have a go.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1, Flamebait)

zerOnIne (128186) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379001)

Wait -- you actually liked Rogue Squadron? I found the thing to be inscrutable. Bad design left and right. Mind you, I'm not a Star Wars fan by any stretch, so I couldn't fill in all the plot and motivation that they assumed I knew. But even so, I found it to be just an awful game.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

Zelos (1050172) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379217)

Agreed, it was a pretty crappy game. The Hoth level was good, after that it all went downhill and I gave up in boredom.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

zerOnIne (128186) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380501)

I didn't even get to Hoth. Not that I even know where Hoth is in the universe. I didn't even realize that I was playing as Luke Skywalker until I figured out all of the "LUKE! DO THIS THING HERE NOW!" type comments were actually being directed at me.

I gave up after getting creamed in the deathstar trench a few times.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

ProppaT (557551) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379047)


You continue to buy FPS games for your 360 two years later. Is that because you mainly like FPS games or because that's mainly what the 360 has to offer?

I've enjoyed my Wii, but agree there's still a lack of games. Outside of Wii Sports, Zelda, Metroid, Mario, and RE4 I still haven't found much to be interested in. I also own a 360 and outside of Live Arcade, Dead Rising, and assorted other games I still haven't found much to be interested in with it either (not a FPS fan in the least). Each system seems to be pidgeon holed into specific genre's right now and I think it's really hurting the industry. More people are playing games than every before yet there's no compelling reason for anyone to upgrade from the PS2 outside of the fact that they want Nintendo brand games or Halo.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

Torodung (31985) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379109)

Interesting, and maybe it is just a fad, but I think you're mistaken on one point. It doesn't all boil down to software. It boils down to total market penetration, and specifically one good exclusive title that makes everyone buy your system. If that game is the freebie that comes with the console, you're going to get amazing market penetration, even if that game only has faddish appeal. Wii Sports has only faddish appeal, but it gets the console everywhere, fast, and that will bring good software eventually.

The only thing that will stop that is if developers don't want to bother with the Wii's somewhat obtuse controls, which is definitely a possibility.

But by the time this is all said and done, there are going to be more Wiis in more homes than any other console, and that will almost certainly attract the developers. Nintendo may not have the respect of the hard core gamer, and doesn't deserve it, IMHO, after rehashing the same IP over and over again and focusing on children, but they do have a recipe for success. They are going to make a lot of money, especially if they're not lying about selling those consoles and accessories at a profit.

--
Toro

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (5, Insightful)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379507)

I bought the Wii on launch day and after a few months of Wii Sports and Zelda, I started to fear the same thing -- that it was a gimmick or passing fad that would fade over time.

Then Resident Evil and Madden came out and suddenly I was aiming my screen to shoot Ganados, throwing lobs and zip passes with my right hand, swatting balls out of the air with my hands, pulling interceptions down with my hands, and putting big hits on runners using my arms...and those were just the first attempts by third parties to integrate motion control into "normal" games.

I no longer fear that the Wii's motion control is a passing fad or gimmick. I think it's here to stay and be improved on in the next-generation consoles.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (4, Interesting)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379999)

How can you call Wii a passing fad when the PS3 and XBox 360 both are just rehashing genres and quickly porting games that were available or in development on PS2 and XBox? How can you call Wii a passing fad, when even on other consoles, a game that requires a gimmicky controller and that doesn't have the greatest graphics is catching on like wildfire (Guitar Hero III, soon Rock Band)?
 
I used to be the kind of person to upgrade my PC every other month just because I wanted the latest in graphics and processing, but after a while (it took me 2 or 3 years :P) I realized it wasn't worth it just to be playing the same exact games with slightly better graphics. I wanted more than FPS, RTS, and MMORPG. At the time, consoles were providing much better games, and plus, the FPS/RTS/MMORPGs were starting to get good on consoles so if ever I got a craving, there were options.
 
Now it's kind of the same thing but with Wii vs other consoles... I could keep upgrading (and I did buy a PS3 and 360 as well, so I wouldn't miss out on anything) but I just have more fun playing different and more innovative games on the Wii.
 
I've got over 22 games on the Wii now and a scant 3 on PS3 (VF5, R&C:F, Darkness) and 3 on 360 (Katamari, Halo 3, Bioshock). On the Wii I still go back and play Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario, Trauma Center, Super Monkey Ball, I still even play SSB:M, and still play Wii Sports and of couse now am very into Mario Galaxy.
 
See, there ARE gamers that just want to play the same games over and over with slightly better graphics, but they're obsessed with a few genres that they simply want to play in a perfect form because that's what really appeals to them. However, most other gamers want a wide variety of experiences and don't really care to play the same couple of games re-made and perfected over time while paying a ton of cash for new console versions or new game versions.
 
This is in fact what would even draw your average person into games, a wide variety of easily accessible yet deep experiences. With games like Excite Truck or Mario Galaxy or Trauma Center, or Monkey Ball, gamers can have casual fun with it yet they can also choose to get as deep as they want into the game perfecting their ability to play it and discovering the nuances and strategies, but they don't have to, and they can just have casual fun with them as well.
 
I think that games that keep getting re-made and obsess on a few tiny details and aren't genre-bending or genre-evolving are the fads, and you can tell by the amount of clones that keep popping up to cash in until the genres ram into the ground.
 
Halo 3 is fun but Halo 2 was just as fun. R&C:F is fun, but so were the first 3 games. On the Wii I'm seeing a lot more new stuff that keeps me hooked. Other systems just don't hold my interest.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380211)

Gaming nerds have been saying that for a long time, but the systems are still selling in increasing numbers, so I'm not going to write off Wii based on the claims of gaming nerds.

One problem is that you're probably not the target market. People that aren't in a target market are too quick to write off something that's not for them, because they have this fallacy that they themselves represent the typical buyer for the product.

Re:Wii - A passing fad? (2, Informative)

hawkbug (94280) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380353)

You need to try Super Mario Galaxy and Super Paper Mario. Both those games don't use the Wiimote is a bad way like a lot of other crappy wii ports at this point, such as Transformers the Movie. I consider that game unplayable on the Wii. I've played it on the PS2, 360, and the Wii - and the Wii version is horrendous.

Back to the Mario franchise - they came out swinging with these games. They are amazing. Also, Mario Strikers Charged. The game play is a blast on all of these and the graphics are great for the Wii. I can't put Super Mario Galaxy down right now. My son loves playing it with me in 2 player mode and it's a great kids game - no sex and no violence. I know that's a huge turn off to most of the slashdot crowd - but if you have little kids like I do, it's a very welcome change for a modern video game. Super Paper Mario is a classic with it's instant flip to 3D mode game play - and Super Mario Galaxy is awesome because of it's "gravity" - if you don't know what I'm talking about, watch an online video of it. That game is a blast.

C'mon Sony, do better (2, Funny)

sayfawa (1099071) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378611)

I've heard (possibly here on /.) that the only reason PS3 sales went up around the time of the launch of the 40GB was that people were snatching up the more expensive 80GB before it and it's backwards compatibility with PS2 disappeared. Meanwhile, my kid asked for a PS2 for christmas.

Re:C'mon Sony, do better (1)

thornomad (1095985) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379041)

Apparently sales are up in Japan [gamespot.com] -- outselling the Wii even. Maybe they got the color wrong?

Re:C'mon Sony, do better (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379645)

If they can sustain it for more than a week it'll be a sign that sales are up. However, it looks to be more of a spike because of the new, lower price. I doubt they'll beat the wii for this month taken as a whole.

Wii (2, Interesting)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378801)

I expect that the Wii will continue to win, it shows Nintendo's domination strategy. First there are exclusive games made my Nintendo that are very very popular such as Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem and Star Fox that will only be available on the Wii or other Nintendo consoles. Sony has Square, however usually will port the games to Wii and 360 also later in the console's life. The 360 has Halo and.. not much else, most of the people that I have talked to bought a 360 for Halo and Halo only. The Wii manages to have some good games for it, Galaxy, Paper Mario and Zelda are all good and exclusive titles, but as with the DS, we only have to wait a few years and after all the "tech-demos" of new controls you get very solid games. Sure Nintendo's systems don't have an absolutely huge quantity of games for them, but those that are made for it have very high quality (sports games aside) and don't have the flaws that the other systems had. For example, Tales of Symphonia for the Gamecube was much better then the Tales games on the PS1-2 because Nintendo desinged the hardware so you wouldn't get loading screen after loading screen like on the PS2. In the end, Nintendo is more popular, you only have to look at how almost every store has a PS3 and 360 but very few have the Wii in stock and sometimes even Wii point cards are sold out! The Wii will win the "console war" the way that Nintendo always has, good quality, exclusive games.

Re:Wii (1)

Gravatron (716477) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379193)

The problem with nintendo is well, they have been declining in quility in some area for years now, and they rarely ship more than a single game in a core francise a generation if its done 1st party. Two is generaly the max you see, and even thats rare. Zelda and Metroid had two each, but Metroid wasn't 1st party, and Zelda was a port split between two systems. Quility wise, alof of their games last generation, and imho, this generation have had some major downsides. WW was rushed, and boring, TP lacked the series signature miniquests, Double Dash has average, lacking the fun battles the previous games had. Metriod prime was amazing, prime two was more average. Sunhine was near universaly bashed, and Luigi's mansion was forgetable. Most everything else they shiped was easily forgotten, or just a mini-game collection or mario branded sports title.

On the wii, we see the same thing. Galaxy is great, as is Metriod, but we aren't likely to see more of those series for a long time. Paper mario was a disapointment, Zelda nearly hit the mark, but its half-asses motion controls hurt it. Wii sports, for all its hype, hardly quilifies as a game at all, and I firmly consider it nothing more than a playable tech demo. Nothing else has really come out yet thats worth half a damn. Nintendo just can't put out enough quility games to keep people playing beyond the initial wow you get from the console. After that, the novelty wears off, and your left with a doorstop.

So why does it sell? Its all about hype, and hooking people with the initial novelty.

Re:Wii (1)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379415)

Yes, I'll admit that last generation Nintendo didn't have the greatest games and currently they seem to lack some good ones now. However, Super Smash Bros. Brawl is coming out and that has always been a hit. Sure all the Mario Party games after the third one added no more interesting ideas and most third-party games seem like tech-demos, the Virtual Console is saving the Wii. Because even if there is no good games on store shelves, every Monday (Friday in Europe) they add new classic games. This is what is making Nintendo a lot of money because while the prices are reasonable ($5 for NES, $6 for TurboGrafix, $8 for SNES/Genesis and $10 for N64) a near 0 distribution cost and the speed of which they can get out there keeps many classic gamers happy. Also, they have started to add Japan only games for $1 more and that could be in the end what saves the Wii.

Re:Wii (1)

ThirdPrize (938147) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379967)

Trouble is that most of the decent Wii exclusives are only things that you have played if you have owned any of the previous Nintendo consoles. Zelda and Star Fox don't mean much to anyone raised on a PS2 or xbox. Sony lost Square/Enix years ago. They are working on 360 exclusive games and have been for a while now.

This is an insipid console war (2, Insightful)

Neon Aardvark (967388) | more than 6 years ago | (#21378905)

They obviously don't make console wars like this any more:

http://advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=10303 [advancedmn.com]

Politics, idiocy, CEOs engaging in childish name calling, censorship, back firing strategies....

Mod me down for being slightly off topic, but know this: I am right to wallow in nostalgia.

I don't know why people want a "war"... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21379033)

...if a platform wins the console war, we all lose. Look at the behaviour of clear frontrunners (Nintendo in the 80s, followed by Sony) and when there was console dominated these companies behaved like complete asses towards their users. If a console "wins" then we look forward to licensed shovelware and price fixing as the only option.

Having competitors at least keeps these people remotely honest.

Dated thinking (3, Insightful)

njfuzzy (734116) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379135)

I really think that the whole idea of a console war is dated.

There was a time when this was an issue. When disposable incomes were lower. When gaming was mostly for kids. When there weren't multiple demographics interested in different kinds of gaming. When a console wasn't also an Internet device and a media (music and movies) device as well.

Now, the game has changed. There is room for an inexpensive console with novelty appeal, health-conscious appeal, and appeal to kids-- and still room for a midrange console with testosterone games for the fratboy crowd-- and still room for a high-end machine with a scary sticker price but very impressive graphics, a blu-ray player, and the occasional hit exclusive game.

Nintendo increasing Wii production (4, Informative)

LKM (227954) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379243)

What's more, Nintendo has increased Wii production to currently 1.8 million per month. [kotaku.com]

That's 21.6 million per year, or over 100 million in just 5 years. If they keep this up, they might even catch up with the PS2!

Sony's Advertising (1)

Frostclaw (1006995) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379289)

I've been really quite impressed with Sony's advertising of late. It seems to be everywhere, and unlike their previous attempts and their irritating PSP ads, the new PS3 ads are actually "cool". It helps that even several multi-platform titles are appearing with ads showing the PS3 logo at the end. On top of that, the good exclusives are starting to trickle out. I love my 360, but I think I may need to start making some room for a PS3 before the end of 2008. There still arn't enough games out yet for me to buy it right now, but the time is coming.

Where is the swordfighting game for Wii (3, Interesting)

MorePower (581188) | more than 6 years ago | (#21379795)

What I want to know is, when the hell is someone going to make the sword/lightsaber game for the Wii that we've all been waiting for. This comes up every now and then and the apologists all jump out and say "Errors in the motion sensors add up so you can't make perfect 1 to 1 movements, blah, blah, blah."

Which is all a bunch of BS. OK you can't make perfect 1 to 1 movement with perfectly free movement of the sword, but you don't need to! I've already seen "good enough" control to make the sword/lightsaber game possible!

Go load up Wii Sports. Choose Baseball for 2 players (so you can play around without a pitch coming). Grab the control for the batter and tip/twirl the Wiimote around over your shoulder. Notice how the Mii tips/twirls the bat just like you? Now, just change it from a bat to a sword, move it from over-the-shoulder to waist level in front of the player, and put the camera behind the Mii (KOTOR style). There, you just made the greatest sword game ever without even doing anything clever.

And of course there's bound to be lots of clever stuff you can figure out like motion capturing a bunch of kids playing with fake swords (with wiimotes embedded) so you can map the wiimote acceleration profiles to expected real life movements. Or correcting for the small integration errors whenever the wiimote happens to swing past the sensor bar. That's just icing on the cake that makes the control even closer to what's expected.

Yeah the control will never be exactly 1 to 1. Olympic fencers will be pissed off that they can't get the millimeter perfect movements they use. Everyone else will be wildly flailing their swords with big broad movements so as long a the sword goes left when they swing left it will be fine. The players' hand/eye coordination will adjust to what the game will actually do. Players already adjust to controls that are much less intuitive/realistic. Just throw in a few easy "whack the pinata" levels at the beginning and I bet people will subconsciously adjust themselves in no time.

Re:Where is the swordfighting game for Wii (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380473)

What I want to know is, when the hell is someone going to make the sword/lightsaber game for the Wii that we've all been waiting for. This comes up every now and then and the apologists all jump out and say "Errors in the motion sensors add up so you can't make perfect 1 to 1 movements, blah, blah, blah."
Red Steel, launch title almost. But it was terrible.

Wii won't scale (1)

kabdib (81955) | more than 6 years ago | (#21380191)

A long-time gamer household, we have a 360 and a Wii (and a bunch of older systems). We have three Wii titles (including the one that came with the box) and it hasn't been turned on in months. The 360 gets daily use, and we have about 20 titles.

A friend of mine, also a 360 owner, just bought a Wii. I'll be interested to see how long the system remains active, and how many titles he buys.

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