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UK Music Retailers Beg, Drop the DRM

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the free-as-in-no-chains dept.

Music 219

thefickler notes that consumers aren't the only ones carrying "Death to DRM" placards. UK music retailers are telling the recording industry enough is enough — that the industry's obsession with copy protection is hurting, not helping, profit. Kim Bayley, director-general of the UK Entertainment Retailers Association, said that the anti-piracy technologies are not protecting industry revenue but instead "stifling growth and working against the consumer interest." The ERA hopes the industry will drop DRM in time for the holiday season. Good luck with that.

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Good. (0, Offtopic)

Gigiya (1022729) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445647)


Re:Good. (3, Interesting)

Slashidiot (1179447) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445755)

Indeed. I think the DRM fight is the first battle that will be won by "internet inhabitants", the "blogosphere", and most of the free-thinking people of the online world. It is happening, and this article is just the sign that we are one step closer. This is a battle in which we are already seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, although far away.

Now we have several more battles to fight; F/OSS software over propietary, breaking Microsoft's monopoly, net neutrality, copyright law reform, etc...

Let's get back to work.

Re:Good. Better. Best. (4, Interesting)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446017)

I think the DRM fight is the first battle that will be won by "internet inhabitants", the "blogosphere", and most of the free-thinking people of the online world.
It's worth our being careful that the battle's not just being moved to a deeper level.

It's also worth remembering that more ISPs are throttling our bandwidth based upon the type of traffic. We may win a battle and still get creamed in the war.

It's important that we codify Net Neutrality right away. We have to press the issue now because although the Democrats are talking a good game at the moment (at least some of them), as soon as they take back the White House and increase their margins in Congress, they're gonna suddenly remember who paid for all their expensive election campaigns. Then, we're gonna see 'em go right back to giving Big Telco a backrub while the Internet becomes little more than a delivery system for our wealth to the corporations.

Honestly, if you're reading this, you've got a pretty fair understanding of how this thing works. You also know how to communicate and probably have a little money in your pocket, (even though you've been played by the best and have a hefty balance on that MasterCard from all those things you "need"). Chances are you're also younger than the US median. That all means you're prime candidates for exercising a little political power. Remember, politics is just social engineering, so your mad skillz are probably quite useful. Figure out who's really on your side and go to work, bitches. And don't sell yourselves cheap.

And bless you all you iconoclasts and free-thinkers this Thanksgiving Day. And tomorrow, instead of spending 20 bucks in gas to save 18 bucks on some geegaw (running up your MasterCard even further and increasing your Serfdom), spend some time learning how be become an insurgent in what may be our last battle for independence from total corporate control of our lives. And be good to one another - the best investment you can make is the one you make in family and friends.

Good luck indeed (3, Informative)

Panitz (1102427) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445657)

Does the holiday season not start today? If so, I cant see it being dropped, erm... yesterday. Or am I wrong?

Not in the UK (4, Insightful)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445689)

We don't have thanksgiving, this refers to Christmas. I am sure most of the DVDs, etc. expected to sell at Christmas are already produced so it is still an impossible target.

Re:Not in the UK (1)

websitebroke (996163) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445799)

Thanksgiving? The Christmas sales/media blitz is in full swing on November 1st here. Once Halloween is over, it's Christmas season.

You mean to tell me this isn't the case in the rest of the Western World? Like, they wait until somewhere in December to do the Christmas thing? How civilized.

Re:Not in the UK (5, Insightful)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445931)

November? The mince pies, xmas cake, and xmas puddings, were on the shelf in the local Tesco at the end of September this year.

I'd heartily support a ban on all Xmas activity until December, if it wasn't such a nanny state thing to do.

Re:Not in the UK (5, Insightful)

91degrees (207121) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445801)

Few people really care about DRM on DVDs. All DVD players will play the things. It's easily circumvented. It's more or less invisible to most people. DVD recorders are still quite rare amongst non-techies.

I think they're mostly talking about DRM for downloads. This is more of a problem. People expect their music to be portable, and don't want any complexity or compatibility problems transferring music to their mp3 players.

Re:Not in the UK (1)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446405)

The fact that CSS is broken is the reason they started screwing with the disc itself, and the VOB format, giving it bad cells etc.

This is just as bad, and in fact worse, because now DVDs DON'T play in every DVD player.

Re:Good luck indeed (0, Troll)

Goth Biker Babe (311502) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445691)

Only if you're a USAean. If you live somewhere in the first world they're referring to the Chrimble holiday season...

Re:Good luck indeed (4, Funny)

Tim C (15259) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445711)

Only in the US, my friend; everywhere else we're looking forward to Christmas. So yes, you're wrong.

The clue was in the repeated use of the letters "UK" in the summary.

Re:Good luck indeed (5, Funny)

Opie812 (582663) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445865)

It was my understanding that the UK had thanksgiving as well. The only difference being it falls on July 4th.

Re:Good luck indeed (0, Redundant)

Panitz (1102427) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445899)

Oh dear, oh dear...

No thanksgiving in UK, and the July 4th thing is independence day in USA, again nothing in the UK

Re:Good luck indeed (2, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445903)


Re:Good luck indeed (2, Funny)

ps236 (965675) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445923)

Here's a hint...

What's July 4th?

Why should the UK have reason to give thanks because of it?

As a UKer, sounds like a good idea to me...

Re:Good luck indeed (0, Redundant)

Panitz (1102427) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445911)

Yeah, I saw all the UKs in the summary... But I never call christmas the 'holiday season'. In fact I've never heard anyone call it that. I thought it was an American term for Thanksgiving - New Year. Hence my confusion.

Re:Good luck indeed (1)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445949)

I never call christmas the 'holiday season'.
"Bloody Christmas" or "Bah, Humbug" is about the most polite I get about it.

Christmas is a neverending chore as soon as you're perceived to be have enough disposable income to buy presents.

Damn you U? centralist thinkers (-1, Flamebait)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445999)

Over here in holland (the country with the tulips, windmills and woodenshoes... Rembrandt? van Gogh? sigh... Free pot AH I see that rang a bell) the gift giving day is the 5th of december, Sinterklaas. (Belgians are a bit slow, and do it on the 6th in the early morning)

Also, not all cultures have Christmas, and even among christians the date varies.

I suppose it explains a lot about the americans waistline that they got the longest "holiday season". Starting with thanksgiving and ending with new year.

So, just like the US citizen was wrong in thinking the rest of the world starts the holiday season with thanksgiving, you are wrong in thinking that everyone else starts it with Christmas.

On a side note, Christmas is a more religious holiday in holland without the exchange of presents. This is however changing slightly. Still the major gift giving day is the 20 days earlier then yours.

Sub site note, the americans got halloween, we got Sint Maarten, where kids dress up and go begging for candy

Re:Damn you U? centralist thinkers (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446093)

So, just like the US citizen was wrong in thinking the rest of the world starts the holiday season with thanksgiving, you are wrong in thinking that everyone else starts it with Christmas.

Even the title of the article refers to the UK - this story is about a UK industry body calling on the UK recording industry to drop DRM.

I think I can be forgiven for pointing out that the holiday season referred to in TFA is Christmas, as over here in the country the story is about that's the next holiday in the calendar... Yeah ok, so I shouldn't have said "everywhere else", I should really have said "in the UK".

Re:Good luck indeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21446125)

Most of our over-the-pond friends probably think we're the 51st state. Happy thanksgiving y'all ;-)

OK? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21445667)

FYI, ERA asks BPI to drop DRM ASAP.

Re:OK? (4, Funny)

locofungus (179280) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445735)

FYI, ERA asks BPI to drop DRM ASAP.

Something like that is just crying out for an acronym.

FEABTDDA (pronounced FeabTaDa perhaps?)


Re:OK? (2, Funny)

Slashidiot (1179447) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445765)

Meta-acronyms, the next step of misunderstandings...

Re:OK? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21445839)

idk my bff jill!

The time to prepare the next trap is ending. (5, Insightful)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445701)

You set up an unfair system and many people fall while some people avoid the trap.

After a while everybody knows about your trap and starts crying foul.

That's the time you have to prepare your next unfair system.

I fear the time when record labels say "We hear our customers and are removing the DRM system." followed by "Piracy is rampant! The only solution is...".

Don't know about the UK... (5, Interesting)

leamanc (961376) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445703)

...but in the states, this is very apparent. Not only do we have big outlets like the Virgin Megastore [] closing down in big cities, but long-standing "mom-and-pop", independent record stores are not making it. I see this with a lot of my old favorite record stores in the midwest, but also some of my favorite stores from when I lived on the left coast, like Aron's Records [] , an veritable institution I never thought would close down.

Now, it may be easy to blame "downloading," but ask anyone who supported these record stores for years and there's two main reasons: 1) Lack of compelling content these days; and 2) general lack of trust for the record industry. When the old hippie burnout down the street is afraid to buy a CD because it might "have a virus on it," you know the MAFIAA have shot themselves in the foot. Unfortunately, they continue to find ways to make money, while the artists and record-shop owners are the ones being put out of business.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (5, Insightful)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445787)

I think it's content,content,content. Why does the second hand CD shop in our town flourish (in fact, has expanded) when the new releases are slowly going down the tubes? Because, I suspect, quantity has proven the end of quality. In the good old days, mostly expected sales volumes were much lower, even for the good stuff. Now, the industry expects to sell huge numbers. It's Goodwin's Law only applied to recordings not money.

If the music industry is a volume box shifting business, it has to rely on high volume low margin. It cannot expect the buyers to pay a premium price for singers and musicians who will be forgotten after they've had their Warhol (that's 15 minutes of fame).

It's like the car industry. The margins on a BMW are high because it costs a lot to persuade you to buy it. The margins on a European supermini are minimal because it costs almost nothing to get people to buy one, but people won't pay a high price for it. The music industry is alone in wanting to sell you a Trabant with the marketing budget of a BMW. This business model is based on the idea that the public is, in effect, too stupid to tell a Trabant from a BMW. It can't be guaranteed that this will remain the case.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445977)

In the good old days, mostly expected sales volumes were much lower, even for the good stuff. Now, the industry expects to sell huge numbers. It's Goodwin's Law only applied to recordings not money.
Umm... unless there's a different law I'm not aware of, I don't see how nazis have much to do with anything.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (1)

Artifakt (700173) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446437)

I don't know if you're aware of it under it's right name or not, but to make his sentence make sense, try:

Gresham's law: "Bad money drives out good" (colloquial version)

(And the "Given enough time, someone inappropriately shouts Nazi" rule is Godwin's, not Goodwin's.)

Re:Don't know about the UK... (4, Insightful)

garett_spencley (193892) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445989)

Exactly. While I am just speculating, I really think that if new albums sold for $1 - $4 each and provided an easy way to get the music on to an iPod or computer* then people would buy them up like candy.

But $1 / song is simply too expensive for most people that I know. When a CD collection was *the* collection that someone chose to have then sure. But those were simpler times. We didn't have mass storage devices and DVDs (some people collected VHS tapes but most people chose to have a large CD collection or a large VHS collection .. now people can have both for cheap all they have to do is break a law that they think is silly or easy to ignore) ... we didn't have computers. So spending a couple hundred over a few years on a CD collection was worth it. But now it's the norm to fill a 20GB iPod with mp3s and if you did that at $1 / song (assuming 4MB / song) then you're looking at an investment of $5,000. Maybe I and everyone I know are just really unfortunate suckers who live well below the poverty line but I can't think of a single person that I know personally who would like the idea of spending $5,000 on music even over a few years. Most people that I know would see $5,000 as no more credit card debt, or a start to their child's college fund etc.

* I'm not sure what that would be, heck it could be as simple as an instruction leaflet inside the jewel case, which wouldn't be useful for most people who already know what they're doing but it would be kind of like a stamp of approval from the record companies saying "We're with the times. We know you want this on your digital players so we're trying to help you with that". It could also maybe be in the form of a separate Joliet disk that has all the songs pre-ripped to mp3 with complete ID3 tags etc.

exactly-it is price gouging (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21446545)

Everyone knows how ridiculously cheap it is to make copies, either on disk or downloadable. The major *insist* on a pricing model from like 20 years ago, if they don't make so much a "unit" they throw a hissy fit. instead of acknowledging new cheap replicator technology, they use it, but they don't get it, they operate in a forced intellectual vacuum where they think consumers-potential customers-aren't aware of tech advances so they can keep getting gouged. It's stupid, if they would have just dropped prices radically they could have upped sales numbers and actually have made more money than they are now. Instead they chose the course of adding DRM and suing potential customers.

Music CDs should be a dollar, DVD movies 2 or 3 dollars, and that's about it. They'd still make all their upfront production costs back quickly (that's for the trolls who always say it costs money to produce, well ya, it does, but follow this please) and still make more over-all net profit, just not "per unit". They need to drop per unit profit margins and increase total sales of units. That's it, it is that easy.. Gouging people for thousands of percent profit (whatever, some big number) over costs is just lame. If you look at the hardcopy pirates, you can see the actual business costs of replication plus profit. If the music majors went just a little cash over that level for their legit copies, to cover production costs of course, that would be the proper pricing point. Like 10% over, not 1000%. Heck, they could just double it, 100% over bare bones duplication, and still come out ahead and the consumers would get a much better deal.

Too late now though, they made their bed, the public responded with download for free instead. Now I don't do either, no downloads nor do I give the entertainment bozos a single penny for any new produced content, I boycott them. I buy used only or severely marked down closer to a realistic pricing model, but full price, first asking? Nope, that's being price gouged, like paying 10 bucks for a cup- of coffee, just not worth it unless you just like throwing your money away for fun to look cool or something..

I started buying music in the 50s and they lost me as a customer because of their incredibly stupid pricing models, I simply cannot countenance getting gouged like that.

Computers have dropped in price and gotten steadily better, pre recorded "entertainment" goes up in price counter intuitively to major tech advances we all see, and gets crappier quality wise for the most part, plus they added in DRM and bribed off the legislative arena to the point that you won't see anything produced today go out of copyright in a normal lifetime, which is completely against the original intent of having a "limited" copyright so the stuff could get into the public domain.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446095)

It's Goodwin's Law only applied to recordings not money.

As the number of sales increase, the probability of buying a Nazi or Hitler influenced track approaches one?

Re:Don't know about the UK... (2, Insightful)

morcego (260031) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446129)

Humm, ok, this might sound stupid but ...

Isn't it more reasonable to suppose all those music stores are closing because they can't compete with the kind of pricing practices implemented by places like Walmart ? (Do they sell CD/DVDs ?)

I mean, if you can enter a store that has all the music you want (for most people that is the 20 newest releases), for a small price, why would you go to mom-and-pop store ?

Don't we see that happening is almost all other kinds of business ? At least were I live, all mom-and-pop ISPs eventually closed their doors too. I think I'll blame the music stores to destroying the ISP business model. Why would you want Internet if you can just go to a store and buy your music ?

Re:Don't know about the UK... (1)

Lobster Quadrille (965591) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446469)

Don't we see that happening is almost all other kinds of business ? At least were I live, all mom-and-pop ISPs eventually closed their doors too. I think I'll blame the music stores to destroying the ISP business model. Why would you want Internet if you can just go to a store and buy your music ?
That's what I like about slashdot. You were making sense up until there, then BAM!

Sure keeps me on my toes.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (2, Interesting)

sortia (1191847) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445797)

Virgin Music closing stores probably has more to do with Virgin selling off & franchising out the brand than DRM, but im sure Branson wouldn't be selling if he was making a fortune from them still.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (1)

wetelectric (956671) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445953)

"afraid to buy a CD because it might "have a virus on it".

I think people care more about price.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21445967)

Actually, I'd attribute CD stores going out of business for the same reason horse & buggy dealers slowly went out of business (or switched) when cars came onto the scene. The goal was transportation, the products was a means to an end. Overall, cars were a better solution for most people on the transportation problem.

The CD may be superior quality (same argument was made for the vinyl record before 8-tracks/tapes/CDs surpassed it) but the goal and how it is provided (entertainment, music, whatever) is better reached for most people with files distributed online than with CDs. Just think, with many CD sales today, all that will happen is that many people will bring them home, rip them, and put them on their favorite mp3 player. It's not even an argument about anything for most consumers but cutting out the work. I mean the above process and actually driving to the store and back, as well.

Many people want to minimize the price argument, but it has a significant impact. It always has and always will. Whether you download just to see if you like the music or download to save money, we can't pretend it doesn't happen. It would be a similiar situation if they had devices that can copy anything perfectly (not just digital content) - would people go out and pay money for steak if they can have a perfect copy made at home for essentially free?

This isn't to argue against the online model, but discussing the inevitable. Artifical mark-ups cannot be sustained indefinitely. We are only seeing the beginning of a digital revolution on marketplaces and I suspect no one will really know where it ultimately ends up - and no, iTunes is not it. That is a temporary gateway at best, suppliers and customers, in a way they are familiar and comfortable with. It can't and won't last with a free theatre down the street.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (2, Insightful)

Cathbard (954906) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446101)

The buggy whip analogy is a good one in this instance. Stores are closing because we longer need these overpriced pieces of plastic to get our music. It's time the record industry died and the music industry was born. Lets start giving our money to the musicians instead of these unethical record companies, they are the true pirates.

Radiohead have shown everybody the way with In Rainbows.

Die, Die, Die My Darling ....... Death to the record industry, Long live the music industry.

Re:Don't know about the UK... (5, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446197)

ask anyone who supported these record stores for years


Buying hard copies at retail is a geezer's activity. Once you can store your entire collection on a fingernail-sized iPod clone, and get new tracks within seconds using weekend-daddy's credit card, why on earth would you want to go out and buy a huge bit of plastic to store a copy of the two tracks you want plus eight that you don't in a medium that you'll never listen to?

Physical distribution of CDs is dead in the water. It's an inefficient, unnecessary and expensive holdover from the ancient past. You might as well give away a free buggy whip with each 'album' (another dying concept) to try and boost sales.

Lest you retort with the stale old "There will always be a market for uncompressed music", fie on that. CDs are effectively compressed [] . Audiophiles already need to get their fix elsewhere, and their sad devotion to their ancient religion demonstrably isn't enough to keep disks-and-mortar stores open.

CDs are dead as a retail proposition. It's time to put down the buggy whip, and move on.

Finally... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21445709)

It can't be good for business if making a purchase becomes this difficult and piratism is actually much easier. Some weeks ago I was actually looking for a song in online music stores, and I found what I was looking for. Then trying to buy it was the problem, some were not selling to Europe, some had some ridicolous protections, weird formats. I was supposed to install some plugin/program to even listen to the music I just bought. For me that was too much to ask, and I after some time I just gave up.

As a record store owner... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21445721)

As a record store owner, My business faces ruin. CD sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many CDs as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.

I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.

The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase records without profanity or violent lyrics. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.

Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - one in three discs world wide is a pirate. On The Internet, you can find and download hundreds of dollars worth of music in just minutes. It has the potential to destroy the music industry, from artists, to record companies to stores like my own. Before you point to the supposed "economic downturn", I'll note that the book store just across from my store is doing great business. Unlike CDs, it's harder to copy books over The Internet.

A week ago, an unpleasant experience with pirates gave me an idea. In my store, I overheard a teenage patron talking to his friend.

"Dude, I'm going to put this CD on the Internet right away."

"Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect."

I was fuming. So they were out to destroy the record industry from right under my nose? Fat chance. When they came to the counter to make their purchase, I grabbed the little shit by his shirt. "'re going to copy this to your friends over The Internet, punk?" I asked him in my best Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry voice.

"Uh y-yeh." He mumbled, shocked.

"That's it. What's your name? You're blacklisted. Now take yourself and your little bitch friend out of my store - and don't come back." I barked. Cravenly, they complied and scampered off.

So that's my idea - a national blacklist of pirates. If somebody cannot obey the basic rules of society, then they should be excluded from society. If pirates want to steal from the music industry, then the music industry should exclude them. It's that simple. One strike, and you're out - no reputable record store will allow you to buy another CD. If the pirates can't buy the CDS to begin with, then they won't be able to copy them over The Internet, will they? It's no different to doctors blacklisting drug dealers from buying prescription medicine.

I have just written a letter to the RIAA outlining my proposal. Suing pirates one by one isn't going far enough. Not to mention pirates use the fact that they're being sued to unfairly portray themselves as victims. A national register of pirates would make the problem far easier to deal with. People would be encouraged to give the names of suspected pirates to a hotline, similar to TIPS. Once we know the size of the problem, the police and other law enforcement agencies will be forced to take piracy seriously. They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?

This evening, my daughters asked me. "Why do the other kids laugh at us?"

I wanted to tell them the truth - it's because they wear old clothes and have cheap haircuts. I can't afford anything better for them right now.

"It's because they are idiots, kids", I told them. "Don't listen to them."

When the kids went to bed, my wife asked me, "Will we be able to keep the house, David?"

I just shook my head, and tried to hold back the tears. "I don't know, Jenny. I don't know."

When my girls ask me questions like that, I feel like my heart is being wrenched out of my chest. But knowing that I'm doing the best I can to save my family and my business is some consolation.

Some people are offended by my blacklist system. I may have made my store less popular for pirates and sympathisers, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to save my industry from destruction. I am inspired by artists such as Metallica that have taken a stand against the powerful pirate lobby. When everyone believes 2 + 2 = 5, to simply state the truth, that 2 + 2 = 4, is a courageous act.

Re:As a record store owner... (1)

screeble (664005) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445769)

I don't know how many time I have read this but it is still as stupid of a read as the first time. Fuck off, troll-bot. Come back when you have an original opinion.

Re:As a record store owner... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21446067)

Since we're cutting and pasting...Buggy Whip [] :

Buggy whip

A Buggy whip, also called a coachwhip, is a whip with a long, stiff shaft and a relatively short lash used for driving on horses harnessed to a buggy, or small open carriage. Though similar whips are still manufactured for limited purposes, the buggy whip industry as a major economic entity ceased to exist with the introduction of the automobile, and is cited in economics and marketing as an example of an industry ceasing to exist because its market niche, and the need for its product, disappears.

In discussions of market regulation, it is often held that the economy would be disadvantaged as a whole if the buggy-whip industry were protected from going out of business by banning the automobile.

Buggy whips are not entirely gone. A resurgence of interest in the international sport of combined driving and historical carriage driving, sports enjoyed by people of all ages, has allowed some buggy whip manufacturers to stay in business, serving this specialty niche market.

Optical Media == Buggy Whip

Re:As a record store owner... (1)

djmurdoch (306849) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445791)

Modded interesting? I think "troll" is more appropriate for something this old. []

Re:As a record store owner... (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445939)

It's not readily apparent, on reading it, that it's old. I think it's not unreasonable to be unaware of that fact. Apart from the fact that it's just copy/paste nonsense, it's not a terrible post. Scary thought... are the trolls getting better at what they do? *shudder*

Fails as satire, I just hope it's a joke post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21445793)

Well, if you're trying to be funny, you're failing.

If you really do own a record store and you're trying to stage a one man battle against well, everything, you're failing.

If you're bringing up kids like that, you're failing and not because of a lack of money.

Ever thought of going into government?

Re:Fails as satire, I just hope it's a joke post (1)

Tridus (79566) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446337)

I disagree, he's succeeding brilliantly at being funny.

I mean, "They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?"

How can you not break out in hysterical laughter at that?

Re:As a record store owner... (4, Interesting)

thsths (31372) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445795)

> Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music?

I thought this should be obvious: people like music, so they buy music. But they don't like CDs, so they don't by them. Most people I know have a CD player somewhere, but it is collecting a layer of dust. They listen to music on the iPod, the mobile phone and the computer.

The problem with stores is that they are not very good in selling virtual goods. I think that web stores do a much better job for this.

> So they were out to destroy the record industry from right under my nose?

The record industry already went the way of the Dodo, and the CD industry will follow soon. As usual, content survives, media don't.

As to the rest of your post: time to chill out, dude!

Re:As a record store owner... (2, Interesting)

scoove (71173) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445907)

people like music, so they buy music.

That's a pretty good observation. In my case, I do buy the CDs, after hearing stuff on and that I didn't know about and want. Usually, it's an artist on Metropolis Records [www.metropolis-records] like And One, Funker Vogt, etc. that has never received a single minute of airplay in our top 50 population market. Even having switched to XM Radio since I can't stand the pathetically poor programming on our local stations, XM's variety doesn't cover this genre as much as I'd like.

But before you shell out $20 on a CD, you really want to hear at least two or three more tracks by the artist to make sure what you heard is representative of their sound. Jump onto P2P and pull down a few tracks and verify.

I've probably bought no less than 100 CDs from Metropolis Records this year alone, and thank them every time for supporting streaming shoutcast stations of their music. They recognize nobody would ever hear their artists outside of Europe, NYC and LA if they didn't support these efforts, and have numerous artists who are benefiting from streaming audio and P2P fileshare music promotion. Clearly, there are labels and artists who embrace modern promotion and distribution approaches.

So who rejects this approach? Only labels with large portfolios of tired artists and an unviable financial model that doesn't compete without regulatory force. If you really want to put an end to DRM, completely stop purchasing music from artists on RIAA labels. Vote with your wallet - it seriously works, as SCO found out (it's hard to continue senseless litigation when your revenues disappear). Otherwise, quit complaining about it as your purchase continues to signal them that you support their efforts.

Re:As a record store owner... (2, Insightful)

tux0r (604835) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446377)

>> Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music?

> I thought this should be obvious: people like music, so they buy music. But they don't like CDs, so they don't by them. Most people I know have a CD player somewhere, but it is collecting a layer of dust. They listen to music on the iPod, the mobile phone and the computer.

I heartily agree with this statement. I recently downloaded an album (a decent -preset fast standard VBR MP3 rip, located with mininova) and I like it a lot. I would love to be able to buy this album online in the same or similar format - as always, the artist deserves remuneration for their work. However, the only format available for purchase online is AAC on iTunes. I don't have iTunes installed and I don't want to install it, I don't want DRM and I don't want to have to transcode lossy to lossy (my Sony MP3 player is great, but it doesn't play AAC).

So I'm stuck - I don't really need the CD (which would cost me about $22) but buying the album on iTunes (for $9.99) gets me an undesirable media type. Thus the only reason I would buy the album online would be to get some cash to the artist, essentially in appreciation. If I did this by buying the iTunes version, though, I'd still be using unlicenced media (the MP3s). On top of all that it is still not lawful to transcode a CD to another format here in Australia, so I simply cannot win.

Clearly the music distribution industry needs to do better to provide a simple and effective way to get music licenced (read: paid for), optionally converted from WAV/CDDA into the format I want (if not FLAC), and into my possession.

Re:As a record store owner... (1)

Tastecicles (1153671) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445843)

Are you the same AC who keeps posting this every time DRM crops up?

Re:As a record store owner... (5, Insightful)

ps236 (965675) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445891)

The reason the bookstore is doing well, but the CD store isn't, isn't because of piracy. It's because people want to read books (not just stories, but stories in books), but they want to listen to music, just not music on CDs. They'll buy their music from iTunes, Napster, etc because they can then listen to it on the move, on their 'portable music device'.

The only reason for anyone under 40 to buy a CD now is so they can rip it and put it onto their portable music device... Since record companies are trying hard to stop this, it means that less people will buy CDs. Anyone who does rip a CD is made to feel like a music pirate anyway - so they may as well go the whole hog and download it off the Internet - if you're a pirate for buying a CD and ripping it, why not be a pirate by downloading it, and save yourself a fortune at the same time.

Most people do NOT want to pirate music, but if that's the easiest way to get hold of the music to use as they want, that's what they'll use. If it cost £0.50 to buy a music track and was easy to do, and they could use it as they wanted (eg on all their music players) that's what most people would do - especially if they knew that £0.40 went to the artist/composer, rather than £0.01 to them, and the rest to the record label.

The problem with any 'how much piracy is around' surveys today is that they are looking at the situation today, when it's really hard to get a useful downloaded music track legitimately, and it's even harder to find a decent CD. So, people almost HAVE to pirate music to get what they want. Fix that, and there'd be less piracy.

Re:As a record store owner... (4, Insightful)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445925)

Exactly, most people want to buy music "legaly" but when they can't rip CDs or get the downloads in the format they want (.ogg, MP3, AAC, WAV, FLAC) they will find it someplace else which is usually online.

Re:As a record store owner... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21445919)

you idiots, instead of paying people to post idiotic statements like the above (he insulted a customer because he was about to post a CD online, that will surely increase his clientele), why don't you open your damn hapless, cataract-full eyes to the unpleasant truth: your business model is D E A D! Now reform, or perish...

which holiday? (1)

boguslinks (1117203) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445723)

The ERA hopes the industry will drop DRM in time for the holiday season.

Which holiday? The next appearance of Halley's Comet?

Re:which holiday? (1)

IBBoard (1128019) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445803)

I don't know. I think that might be a bit too soon to convince the RIAA people (or our UK/EU counterparts) to remove DRM.

Because (4, Funny)

JustOK (667959) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445729)

They don't need DRM because security cameras in the UK are everywhere and they can see and hear each song that they listen to.

To be honest... (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445743)

...I can't see DRM making much difference to brick and mortar stores but this DRM hurting physical CD sales attitude is caused by the same mentality that piracy is to blame for the major record labels current downfall.

Still, it's nice to see the music industries oversimplified logic and ignorance of reality working against it for once of course so I'll keep my mouth shut and pretend they're right and it's all DRMs fault because in a strange twist of fate it can only be a good thing having the distributors against it ;)

Re:To be honest... (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445809)

I suspect they're talking about CDs that have been sonied [] , that is, distributed with software on them that automatically installs a rootkit onto the victim's computer if inserted into a Windows-based PC.

Now, if I were a retailer, I'd just not sell the CDs, or if under legal obligation to display them I'd price them as high as legally able, and place a sticker on each one warning the customer that the CD is defective, with my sales people trained to discourage anyone who actually gets as far as the counter from buying the CD. But I'm not, and I don't think the retailers have the will on an individual store manager level to do anything about this kind of thing, even if their representative trade associations are willing to whine in public about the issue.

Re:To be honest... (2, Interesting)

ShadowEFX (152354) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445825)

I, and many of my friends, haven't purchased a CD in a long time now because there is an increasing chance that it will not work on our equipment. They still stamp CD on discs that do not follow the standard, and their label of "Contains copy protection blahblahblah not work with all blahblah" is a cop out. I was burned a few times with this, on both older and new players.

That's your effect - we don't trust the media enough to purchase it, whether from the risk of a non-functional product or some piece of auto-run crap that will attempt to install on my Windows box when I try to play it there. Yes yes, "Run linux", and I do - but not on all of my machines, and I shouldn't have to disable autorun just because the *AA wants to maintain draconian control over a dieing business model.

DRM breaks stuff -> People don't buy it -> Stores go out of business.

Re:To be honest... (1)

ShadowEFX (152354) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445863)

d'oh! Dying, not dieing. Wake up, read, respond...order is important.

Re:To be honest... (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446195)

Well I understand that bothers a few, but for every person that understands that there may be potential problems there seems to be thousands more who simply don't know what DRM is and don't care enough or even think to check for copy protection warnings on the back of CDs.

Most people I know buy CDs to play in their car if anywhere and not their PC so it's simply not an issue if it has computer based DRM - the amount of CDs that have DRM that effects playing in a standard car based CD player still seems to be so negligible that if it does occur, people just put it down to being unlucky and getting a faulty CD without ever realising that DRM exists, by which time the studios have realised their colossal screw up and sent out working CDs to the stores.

Nothing to see here... (4, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445747)

The unfortunate truth is that most people don't actually care about DRM, and the **AA knows this, and knows that even with DRM the discs will sell very well. People half expect the systems to be protected, and half don't care at all as long as they get their music and movies. Only the more educated users can even think that they should be able to make personal copies of these things, but they don't care enough to go out and get programs or media that allow that. This is the unfortunate thing that people like RMS neglect to account for -- consumers don't really care about freedom, they just want entertainment and flashiness.

Re:Nothing to see here... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21445783)

The problem with what your saying is that most (uneducated) people will still buy their music on physical media, and most educated people would _like_ to buy their music digitally, but can't (yet) as they want to put up with the hasstle of DRM.

Digital music sales *would* increase if the music was DRM-free, becasue I would start buying my music that way, and an increase of one is still an increase.

Re:Nothing to see here... (4, Insightful)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445821)

Well we can consider that MP3 is pretty mainstream by now and not a geek-only thing anymore. When people can't play their CDs on their computer, rip them to put them on their MP3 player or copy files as they want, they may not understand what is going on but they do care. And like always, they blame it on the seller or the artist.

consumers don't really care about freedom, they just want entertainment and flashiness
They do care, put freedom in a slogan, it does sell. Most of them just don't know how to achieve freedom in IT. After all, it can be confusing when open source is labeled as communism, Vista supposed to free creativity and DRMs to be a consumer service.

Re:Nothing to see here... (4, Insightful)

Felix Da Rat (93827) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445837)

While I'd agree with you in general, I think that more and more of the Joe 6 pack crowd are starting to run into this. Since almost every device now offers the ability to play media formats (i.e. phones) you'll start to run into music format lock ins. Today and a lot of people have more than one computer (home, office, laptop, kid's computer, spouse's computer, etc.) people are probably running into the interoperability issues or will at some point soon.

Last month I authorized my 5th computer to work with iTunes, so me and mine can keep playing music I've bought. Now I can't listen to it at the office. That doesn't really make any sense to me, because I could if I'd bought a CD instead, I'd just have to carry around a binder of music the size of a desk.

The convenience of digital music is that it can be moved around and taken with you easily. DRM stops that and we'll just keep running into it.

Re:Nothing to see here... (1)

yakumo.unr (833476) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445847)

I disagree with your assumption, when the common man puts his brand new purchased DVD is his brand new DVD player and finds it wont run, takes it back to the store and is told that it's an anti-piracy system that has stopped his legally purchased products from working, then word gets around pretty fast in ALL circles, and no-one wants them any more.

(eg, Sony's Casino Royal not working on Sony's own current off the shelf players)

Re:Nothing to see here... (3, Insightful)

websitebroke (996163) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445861)

Fortunately, I've been hearing quite a bit about DRM from my Joe-Sixpack friends lately. This apathy toward your own rights that people seem to have is slowly going away - at least in this particular place. It's a fairly easy thing to explain, unlike FOSS.

For example:

"Remember how you could copy tapes/CDs without restriction? Wouldn't it be nice to copy your downloaded music the same way? Well, you can, except for the fact that the record companies are using DRM to stop you, and are still charging as if you were buying a copyable CD. Doesn't that suck?"

Eventually, enough people will be annoyed, and start asking for and buying DRM free music. The fact that 2 major record companies are offering DRM free music (for the moment) is a good sign.

The key is to win this battle now before a generation grows up with restricted music. That is the main problem trying to get people outraged with proprietary software. People are used to the idea of buying software and having it locked down. For all intents and purposes, it's always been that way.

Re:Nothing to see here... (1)

hellocatfood (937756) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445879)

When DRM works against their freedom then they will care.

Starting to change (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445929)

My stepmother is NOT tech literate. Not in the slightest.

She likes shiny things and the other day she asked me to put her "Shakira" CD on to her MP3 player.
The DRM on it prevented me from doing so, not by any program (I know to hold down shift!) but by the method of the tracks being dodgy and extra data in place to throw off CDROM drives. Well anyway, long story short CDEX wasn't having it and I had to go and say to her that it couldn't be done because the record company have put some protection on there that stops you copying the data to your computer and mp3 player.

Now, whether she went away from that exchange thinking that computers aren't as good as people say, or that this whole MP3 business is a croc, or she went away thinking that copying it for personal use is illegal anyway, or whether she actually got the point that the record companies were preventing her from using the product she purched in a legitimate way, I don't know.

Either way though, she's going to buy less CDs because they're not as useful to her as she thought.

Re:Starting to change (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446247)

long story short CDEX wasn't having it and I had to go and say to her that it couldn't be done
"See this percentile bar? In about a minute it will reach 100% and you'll have the song in your mp3."

"Torrent? Yeah, it's a cd copying thing."

"Your cd isn't inserted? Don't worry my computer can read it at a distance."

In Singapore (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446371)

(which is where they are) they probably behead you for using BitTorrent.

Also, I'd rather she be the one to decide to make the leap to the dark side, or be pissed off with the record companies. I don't want to be a dodgy abstraction layer!

national holiday required (1)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445761)

The ERA hopes the industry will drop DRM in time for the holiday season. Good luck with that.

I think a small holiday would be in order no matter how long it takes to defeat DRM.

i mean reallly (1)

Martian_Kyo (1161137) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445819)

Citing a recent study conducted in the UK which indicated that consumers overwhelmingly prefer music without copy protection mechanisms
was a study for a such a thing, really necessary. It's pretty much common sense. Wander which genius came up with the idea for that study. I swear world is sometimes so full of BS it stops being funny and starts being really frustrating.

What they're really saying is... (2)

Tastecicles (1153671) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445823)

"Please, stop this DRM crap as we're NOT prepared to put up with a new year rush of postal (as in out for blood) consumers returning christmas presents that won't play in their xbox 360's!" Last time I looked, any CD player will play Redbook audio. DRM does NOT conform to Redbook, ergo any DRM CD CANNOT be advertised or sold as an audio compact disc.

DRM? What? (1)

hyades1 (1149581) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445851)

Most of the marching morons never even realize there's a problem, because most of them never try to copy a CD. They give the disk to their "computer hero"...the friend who can plug in a USB cable and all that other complicated stuff...and get back a nice copy for their car or cottage or whatever. When their kid gets dragged into court for downloading MP3's, it's everybody else's fault for allowing this outrageous behaviour to occur.

Re:DRM? What? (1)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445905)

How is that "outrageous behavior" at all? Copying CDs, DVDs and the like number 1 is protected under fair use for backups. Number 2, it should be a moral right and really should be embraced by the *IAA if they want to not go bankrupt. Most people won't buy a song, not even "illegally" download a song if they have no clue what the music is like, they had to hear it for free at some point or had a friend tell them about it. Think about radio, you can listen to all the free music you want in a DRM free format, record it if you like and share it with others and many many many people listen to the radio or Internet Radio. When it is easier to "illegally" download a song then to go through the hassle of buying it you have a problem. Sure "illegal" downloading will get people for the price and such, but most people want to spend the money if they can get it in their format with no DRM that means that I should be able to download a song in .ogg, MP3, FLAC, WAV, AAC and such, not just have to download an MP3 or WMA that can't be played on Linux legally in the US without "illegal" codecs. Not to mention how some MP3 players can't play say WAV and AAC so it makes no sence to distribute them as only WAV and AAC. People will buy as long as their rights aren't trampled. And most people I know, know how to rip CDs to their iPods and the CDs that don't rip they either rip them off of YouTube/Google Video or "illegally" download them.

Just now started buying music again (1)

Secrity (742221) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445855)

I have just now started buying downloaded music because Amazon has started selling non-DRM'ed higher bit-rate mp3's. Up until now I would not buy music downloads due to the DRM or because it was not available in a format that I wanted to use and I wouldn't buy CDs because I will not buy the new disks that look like a CD but isn't really a CD.

Alternatives to buying CDs (5, Interesting)

b1gp0pp4 (1157069) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445875)

Two and a half years ago, I forgot to lock my truck.
A thief came by and stole:
1. A cup of change (for the meter)
2. A fresh pack of Kamel Red Lights
3. My entire wallet of CDs -- a ratio of 90% store-bought CDs and 10% assorted collections of mixes from parties, birthdays, longs nights of ecstasy, and the kind of presents girls with too much time on their hands make for you.
I went to ye olde Wal-Mart, bought a satellite radio, and I haven't bought a single CD since. I can record off the radio legally, the songs save on my radio for ~90 days (XM just imposed some time limits on the songs), and I can also put MP3s on the unit with a USB cord (the little trapezoid type). I haven't downloaded any music in ages, as I can get all the popular crap on the radio and I feel justified in re-acquiring the CDs that I had previously purchased on the Internet. Whether due to my own incompetence or not, I'm not going to spend another $1000 dollars replenishing my lifetime collection of CDs.
I can only imagine how some of the older folks feel. Who the hell wants to replace their collection of records, tapes, 8-tracks, et cetera everytime a new medium is embraced by a bloated industry in order to SELL more copies. It's not about the music!
Viva la revolution!
P.S. XM is 12.99 a month, so it's not like I found the free solution, but it has the wonderful ratio of entertainment hours per monthly fee as those crack-like MMORPG games (UO, WoW, EQ...)

Re:Alternatives to buying CDs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21446143)

"A thief came by and stole:"

No! You mean copied....

DRM Who ? (1)

nfractal (1039722) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445889)

Apart from my workplace, the overwhelming majority of people i come in contact with around on streets, anywhere dont have a fucking clue as to what's DRM let alone the issue's involved. Nobody ever bought copyrighted content, which they're starting to buy in droves just lately. Its kinda weird :O

There's no DRM on CD's... (2, Insightful)

kaos07 (1113443) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445933)

I don't know about you guys but when I go to a record store, be it a small independent store or a chain like HMV, Virgin, Sanity etc, and buy an album I can do whatever I want with it. I can copy it, I can rip it into .mp3, FLAC, .aac etc etc for any music player I might have. I buy quite alot of music varied from old school jazz to new rock, indie, hip-hop, metal and I'm yet to encounter any forms of Digital Rights Management ie. I've never been restricted from doing what I like to music on a legitimately purchased CD.

So the ERA arguing that DRM is costing them in sales is just passing the buck. Maybe people aren't buying more new music because they don't like it?

Re:There's no DRM on CD's... (1)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445991)

What OS are you on? If your on Linux, BSD or OS-X I doubt that you would encounter anything because most are for Windows.

Re:There's no DRM on CD's... (1)

kaos07 (1113443) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446059)

I dual-boot Ubuntu and Windows XP, no issues playing, burning or ripping on either.

Re:There's no DRM on CD's... (3, Insightful)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446033)

Not every 5 1/4 inch silvered polycarbonate disk containing 44.1 MHz PCM digital audio is a "CD" though. Ask Philips. []

Re:There's no DRM on CD's... (1)

WoollyMittens (1065278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446087)

Your statistical study has a population of 1, how am I supposed to be convinced by your compelling argument?

Re:There's no DRM on CD's... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21446511)

Tried any sony labeled stuff recently? Yer fulloshit.

Parent article (3, Informative)

JackSpratts (660957) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445955)

here's a working link to the actual article (not blog) from the nominally subscription-only financial times:

- js.

In Canada... (1)

courteaudotbiz (1191083) | more than 6 years ago | (#21445973)

Here in Canada, I really don't think music publishers will want to drop DRM. We're THE place in the world where the Federal Authorities (RCMP) said "Go ahead, copy your music, don't buy it, anyway we'll never go against you".

Anyway, I personnaly buy every song I have on my computer. I think artists put hard work in creating songs, and I reward them by buying their stuff. If I don't like it, I don't buy it, and I don't download it either.

The only thing that upsets me with DRM is the fact that I can only use the stuff I bought on a limited number of devices, even though all these devices are mine.


Re:In Canada... (1)

WoollyMittens (1065278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446119)

Most of the money you so kindly mean to give the artists disappears into the pockets of the record companies. You might be doing them a bigger favour by sending them cash and downloading their music from the pirates.

Re:In Canada... (1)

courteaudotbiz (1191083) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446201)

Well, I know that stuff, but anyway, it's like buying anything else, a lot goes to the retailer, the wholeseller, the brokers, and few remains for the manufacturer.

But do you think AC/DC or Metallica are sleeping in a Comfort Inn when they go on tour?

The year 324 AD called (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446043)

It wants its Winter Solstice celebrations back. (For the un-edumecated, that is the year before Constantin unified the Roman religions).

The press misses the point (4, Insightful)

tkrotchko (124118) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446073)

I had to chuckle when I read this from the article:

    "believing instead that the near-ubiquitous practice of file-sharing can be abolished with more draconian copy protection mechanisms"

No no no. The people running record companies are not stupid. They're smarter than most people. They know they can't stop file sharing; it's impossible. But like all businesses, they invest money to protect revenue. DRM is not an attempt to stop copying, it's an attempt to shore up revenue.

To put it more simply, the record companies must believe they are better off revenue-wise putting on copy protection. If they spend $Z to get DRM on every CD, they'll stop X% piracy leading to $Y more revenue. If Y is greater than Z, then it makes sense to put on DRM. If Y is less than Z, then the DRM won't be put on.

It's really that simple.

Re:The press misses the point (1)

WoollyMittens (1065278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446151)

Moreso, they then have the power to sell you media with a self-destruct mechanism. They only need to "update" the "security" and everybody hass to buy everything again... and again and again.

Puritanism? (1)

jandersen (462034) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446187)

There is something about the way the DRM clique go about things that makes me think it isn't so much a question about money as one about not being able to tolerate that there are people in the world that listen to music and enjoy themselves. I mean, if it was only about money they would have dropped DRM and all the other draconian efforts that will, in the long run only alienate their customers.

Anybody suprised... (2, Interesting)

jopsen (885607) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446273)

I don't buy my music anymore I've given up... I don't like to download it illegally either. Can't buy cds because I'm too lazy to actually change disc, I want my music digital. So where do I get my music:

Usually I listen to internet radio, particularly Then I record/rip it, which is luckily perfectly legal in my country (Denmark).
Once in a while when there's this track that I've just got to have I'll try to see if I can buy without DRM, that fails I spend 10 min. adding it to my playlist and then I'll rip that afterwards :)

I don't want to buy all my music, but once I a while there's this track that I've just got to have, and then the music industry would actually be able to sell me digital music... I'm pretty sure I'd buy DRM-free albums at a fair prize if I could. But the DRM-free selection in Denmark is rather small, Amazon haven't yet opened their music store to Europeans..

By the way, I did actally buy a CD a few months ago, listened to it for a few days. Then I tried to rip, which of course failed, now I haven't heard that cd since...

It's too late. (1)

MartinG (52587) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446303)

Like many others, I have always looked for DRM free music and will go to the best source that can give it to me. Sometimes that ends up with the artist being paid and sometimes it doesn't.

Once there is a way to buy all music without DRM, I'll use it because I want the artists to get paid for their work.

Unfortunately though, through their insistence on using DRM, particularly for inline sales, the industry has so far forced the customer to go elsewhere for DRM free music. Over time this has led to the establishment of very efficient and convenient ways to get most music. Now that people are using such methods, it will be very hard to lure them away to a paid alternative unless the industry can offer something better.

What could they offer though? Maybe they could provide files in flac format, since those are slightly harder to find on existing sites for some types of music. That could persuade some users. I can't think of much else, but whatever they do they need to make it better than what the fans already get for free and they need to do it fast.

They won't though. They won't even try. They'll continue to bury their heads in the sand and moan about how they think piracy is hurting the artists.

!copyprotection (4, Interesting)

Myopic (18616) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446453)

Once again I insist that our community stop calling it copy protection. Does it protect my copies? No. We also need to stop calling it DRM. Does it manage my digital rights? No. (In fact it does the opposite of that, it cripples my digital rights -- DRC.)

We should call it what it is, which is Playback Prevention. That's what the technology does, it prevents playback. Both the consumers and the producers can agree that's what it does, although we will disagree about whether or not that's a good thing for technology to do.

Tag this story !copyprotection !drm playbackprevention.

OK, put your DRM on the disk (2, Informative)

careysb (566113) | more than 6 years ago | (#21446505)

...but, require a WARNING label on all DRM'ed disks. Let the consumer make an educated purchase decision.

Also, see []


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