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Suit Filed Over 'Halo 3 Incompatibility'

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the not-the-best-legal-move dept.

The Courts 92

Via Kotaku, a story on the CourtHouseNews site is discussing a suit filed by a CA man against Microsoft over Halo 3. "Microsoft's highly touted "Halo 3" video game, made exclusively for its Xbox 360, causes the Xbox to freeze or crash, ruining the game, according to a federal class-action complaint ... Lead plaintiff Randy Nunez says he paid $59.99 for his game. He wants class certification and damages." Given the lack of widespread note of such crashes, it's going to be hard to prove this in court I think.

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92 comments

fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21448399)

first post!

Right (2, Informative)

gcnaddict (841664) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448429)

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Iron Clad Defense For Microsoft (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21448799)

"It's not our shitty Halo 3 game that is to blame but rather our utterly garbage 360 hardware"

Case dismissed...

Re:Iron Clad Defense For Microsoft (3, Insightful)

halcyon1234 (834388) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449285)

"It's not our shitty Halo 3 game that is to blame but rather our utterly garbage 360 hardware"

Case dismissed...

My friend, you are missing the entirely brilliant stratagem being played out here. Dude sues Microsoft for, like, $100 because Halo crashes. He gets them to admit, on the stand, that it wasn't Halo. It was their *ahem* "utterly garbage 360 hardware". Case is dismissed.

And then the Dude goes right back to the filing office, and sues Microsoft for $100,000,000 because the XBox 360 is utter garbage. His proof? Microsoft said so. In court. Under oath!

Brilliant.

Re:Iron Clad Defense For Microsoft (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21449673)

Part of what makes the 360 hardware "utterly garbage" is that no one reads the instructions on ventilation for both the console and the power brick. Sure there are other problems, but frequent freezing is probably heat, which is probably his "fault" (somewhat unrealistic expectations on the part of Microsoft not withstanding). If you think a jury can't understand "too hot" and identify an antisocial douchebag, well I think they probably deserve a little more credit.

Re:Iron Clad Defense For Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21450127)

Not brilliant. The guy is not just suing for himself, he is trying to bring a class action suit. So regardless of whether it's the crappy software or the crappy hardware, he is still going to have the same problem of finding people experiencing Halo 3 crashing on Xbox 360.

Besides that, how far can could he really get suing MS for hardware problems when those problems have already been acknowledged and MS has taken action to address them.

No, not brilliant at all. And definitely not +5 Insightful.

Re:Iron Clad Defense For Microsoft (1)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 6 years ago | (#21451155)

you know, what's really going on is probably that scratch a "halo" pardon my pun into the disc while it's operating on its side or whatever that major problem was. That causes the game to read bad data and it isn't handled properly so it crashes instead of giving you a read error and safe quit. So both the game system and the game are defective.

Re:Iron Clad Defense For Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21451307)

No, if the disc read fails, the console basically displays an error message to that effect and demands a disc then kicks you out to the dashboard. And the disc is polycarbonate, if it's defective in that fashion, polycarbonate is defective, so he may as well sue covalent bonds, or physical chemistry, or the universe in general. Lots of things can cause a game to freeze, jumping at a certain point in the Two Worlds demo appears to lockup the 360 by crashing some element of the sound system. For instance. With Halo 3 odds are it's heat, as if it was program logic and it happened all the time, people would be burning down Redmond as I write. So either the guy is a wonk, or a crank. I'll leave it as an excercise for the attornies to properly classify his disfunction.

/. mods... (1)

SynapseLapse (644398) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449463)

must be drunk.

How... how does "You've got to be fucking kidding me." get modded "informative"

Re:/. mods... (2, Informative)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449515)

You can have the last laugh in 17 months when the metamod backlog catches up :)

Re:Right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21450065)

"You've got to be fucking kidding me" modded 5: Informative? Yeah, I sure learned a lot of enlightening information from THIS post.

In b4 this gets modded "Off Topic".

What's this news about again? (3, Interesting)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448445)

Microsoft's highly touted "Halo 3" video game, made exclusively for its Xbox 360, causes the Xbox to freeze or crash, ruining the game, according to a federal class-action complaint.
It causes "the" Xbox to crash... what Xbox? All Xbox 360s? Only the plaintiff's Xbox 360? Or even the original Xbox, rather than the 360? I can't understand this news.

Re:What's this news about again? (4, Funny)

Goaway (82658) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449235)

I can't understand this news.
I guess the stereotype of nerds being highly intelligent simply is not true any more.

Re:What's this news about again? (1)

empaler (130732) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449441)

Given that his link home page [coconia.net] is in... er... Spanish? - I'd guess English isn't his first language. Plus, he does have a point.

Re:What's this news about again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21464975)

Nerds are still highly intelligent... they just don't have a good grasp on reality.

Re:What's this news about again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21449859)

Yeah, can someone clear this up?! is it "a xbox" or "the xbox"?

Re:What's this news about again? (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450795)

Well, I can eliminate two of those.

It doesn't cause my Xbox 360 to crash, so it can't be option A.

If it's accidentally put in an old-school Xbox, all you see is a static screen that reads something like "this disk requires an Xbox 360 to play" so it's not option C.

That leaves option B: "Only the plaintiff's Xbox 360" which leaves an interesting question, can you have a class action lawsuit with a 'class' of only one person?

Re:What's this news about again? (1)

MarkAyen (726688) | more than 6 years ago | (#21453823)

My Xbox has locked up frequently playing Two Worlds and Oblivion and occasionally playing a number of other games (including Bioshock). It has never locked up playing Halo 3. On my system, the game is solid as a rock.

That leaves option B: "Only the plaintiff's Xbox 360" which leaves an interesting question, can you have a class action lawsuit with a 'class' of only one person?
IANAL, but it's my understanding that a class-action lawsuit requires large numbers of affeced people, so no.

Re:What's this news about again? (1)

TeacherOfHeroes (892498) | more than 6 years ago | (#21451815)

The first article linked to clears this up.

Halo 3 does not function with the Xbox 360, and to the contrary, attempted use of Halo 3 consistently causes the Xbox 360 to "crash," "freeze" or "lock up" while the game is being played."

Might spell BIG trouble (3, Informative)

Torodung (31985) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448463)

If that's really a repeating issue on his box, and folks aren't reporting similar experiences because you "can't return video games," then establishing a class is the way to make sure anyone with problems can jump on the bandwagon. It lowers the barrier to file suit, in the same way that corporations have had that barrier lowered, vis-a-vis bulk subpoena provisions in the DMCA.

The result of lowering the barrier to file is always that more people file.

This could turn grave for MS and Bungie very quickly, even if the problem is strictly Xbox360 hardware. If Halo 3 taxes that hardware to it's limits, and the CPU/GPU has cooling problems, it would cause exactly what the plaintiff describes.

Class action is every service provider's worst nightmare. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of it.

--
Toro

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (3, Interesting)

Khuffie (818093) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448737)

Or it could amount to zilch, because this is a non-issue. There hasn't been a single reported incident, so gaining class action status is impossible. This is either an issue with the guys hardware (fixable under warranty if he hasn't voided it) or an issue with the game disc itself (replacable at point of purchase for the same item within 7-30 days depending on the store or through the game's manufacturer.)

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

NoobixCube (1133473) | more than 6 years ago | (#21451943)

By saying there hasn't been a single reported incident, you're disregarding that this is a reported incident. And who's to say if this issue hasn't already been reported by someone who didn't realise it was Halo 3 making their 360 crap out. I've seen enough of my friends with endless issues with their 360s to believe almost anything short of a damaged disc opening a gateway to Hell.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21448761)

Regardless of the merits of the lawsuit it is yet another thing to add to the troubled console:

* RRoD - 1.1 billion in costs just to cover the existing 360s out there
* RRoD class action lawsuits
* Disc scratching - People are still having their 60 dollar game discs destroyed by 360s
* Disc scratching class action lawsuits - not as big as the RRoD issue but yet another hardware defect lawsuit
* 360 online billing lawsuits
* Halo 3 class action lawsuit

With Microsoft losing Xbox execs and having the majority of their first party developers abandon Microsoft to go do multiplatform development it is getting increasingly unlikely that they have either the will or ability to remain in the console market much longer. 7 billion dollars and growing in losses on the whole Xbox mess is a huge amount of money to waste even for a company that people like to pretend has unlimited amounts of cash.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (4, Informative)

Cassius Corodes (1084513) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449009)

The old XBox didn't make any money either - however the long term tactic of Microsoft is to break into the market even if it means losing money. Granted it was supposed to happen with this console but I'm sure they have to money to ride it out.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21449145)

Microsoft is long past rationalizing their Xbox failures as still trying to 'break into the console market'. They've been trying to get the console world to care about the Xbox. After six years or so with obscene losses they are exactly where they were when they started: stuck being supported almost entirely by a 10-15 million or so US pc gamer/fps base of gamers while dead in Japan and doing very poorly in Europe outside of perhaps the UK.

The 360 is on track after two years on the market to just hit original Xbox worldwide numbers. Microsoft is going nowhere in the console market.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (3, Insightful)

JebusIsLord (566856) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450161)

Microsoft has the same installed base as the "highly successful" Wii, with a console twice as expensive, and a MUCH higher attachment rate for games. So much so that most of the top 10 video games over any given period for the past year have been 360 titles. On top of that, they're GOOD games (which can't be said for Wii, sadly...)

Also, last quarter their games division posted a profit, for the first time. So from my perspective, things are looking pretty rosy. Either way, I'm really enjoying my 360. (I also enjoy my Wii... before i get accused of fanboyism).

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (2, Informative)

Moridin42 (219670) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450541)

The biggest difference in the success of Microsoft and Nintendo.. is in the fact that Nintendo turns a profit on their hardware sales. Microsoft takes a loss on the hardware, trying to make it up on license fees later. Which they have as yet been unable to do.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450837)

Did you not read the parent post? He JUST posted that the Xbox division had a profitable quarter last quarter, which would turn your statement: Microsoft takes a loss on the hardware, trying to make it up on license fees later. Which they have as yet been unable to do. entirely upside-down.

Now, you may argue that the good quarter is only because of Halo 3 and they'll soon go back into the red, but the point is they *have* been able to do it, it's documented, the parent poster mentioned it, and you're still posting the same old Slashdot crap without engaging your brain or, for that matter, even reading the post you're replying to.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (2, Informative)

Moridin42 (219670) | more than 6 years ago | (#21452231)

A profitable quarter doesn't make the division profitable. It just means that for one quarter the division took in more money than it expensed. Previous quarter losses are still losses on the tally sheet. For the division to be profitable over its life it has to have future quarterly profits to offset those previous quarter losses.

All the owners of Xbox360's from all the previous quarters didn't go out and buy new Xbox360s, so Microsoft didn't take new losses on the hardware. But they are continuing to buy games this quarter, generating the revenues. So while it may be that the Xbox division will sometime relatively soon become profitable as a whole, it hasn't happened yet.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 6 years ago | (#21453785)

The xbox division's profits include game sales and licensing as well as peripheral hardware sales, not just units sold. The profit is impressive (since its the first time EVER in xbox history), but it doesn't mean the hardware itself is profitable on its own yet.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

Kasracer (865931) | more than 6 years ago | (#21451039)

This is wrong. It was confirmed a year ago that Microsoft makes money on each console. I don't have the exact figures, but they are making money on their hardware as well as license fees.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

Moridin42 (219670) | more than 6 years ago | (#21452277)

It what you say is true, then there are some articles out there from Q1 and Q2 of this year that say otherwise. An article from April said that they'd reduced manufacturing costs but still not below the retail price. And the ones from Q2 about the warranty related expenses they made said that the extra expense from the warranty work was partially offset by reduced losses on the hardware.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

edwdig (47888) | more than 6 years ago | (#21451631)

Also, last quarter their games division posted a profit, for the first time.

Second time. They also posted a profit the quarter Halo 2 launched. They still haven't shown any signs of being able to post a profitable quarter without a new Halo game.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (2, Insightful)

Xtravar (725372) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450549)

But you know... the way Microsoft treated Xbox 1 when the 360 came out kind of makes me wary of getting a 360.

Not that I'm a huge Sony fan either, but they did make a new slim design and games are still being made for it. A lot of those games would have probably been multi-platform too had the Xbox still been viable. Granted, Sony is probably keeping the PS2 alive for greedy reasons and slow PS3 uptake, but they are fulfilling a very important budget gaming market segment with the PS2 which could still be shared with Microsoft.

Instead, the Xbox is now the largest piece of electronic equipment in my house next to the refrigerator and completely irrelevant for modern gaming. It's only good for playing emulators. From what I've seen, the 360 probably won't be nearly as easy to mod... so if the cycle repeats, the 360 will be even more worthless when MS comes out with its new shiny console next generation.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

donaldm (919619) | more than 6 years ago | (#21452537)

Actually with regard to the original Xbox Microsoft had an issue with cost of the Nvidia graphics module in that Nvidia would not drop their prices http://www.geek.com/microsoft-and-nvidia-end-xbox-dispute/ [geek.com] which contributed to the overall losses on the Xbox. This dispute actually forced Microsoft to bring the Xbox360 out earlier than they originally wanted.

I would not say Sony was greedy in keeping the PS2 alive since the sale of each PS3 is a loss (not sure exactly how much though) it makes perfect business sense to offset these losses against the PS2 and at the same time you provide the Gaming market with a cheaper machine than any of the other consoles. While this may not make much sense to some affluent people it is an excellent buy for poorer people who can't even afford a Wii, much less buy games for it. What makes the PS2 such an excellent buy is that good games are still being made for it (OK there are some stinkers as well) that can satisfy just about all gaming needs at a budget price. This is great for people on a limited budget world wide and is also nice for more affluent gamers in that they can save money as well.

As for the poor take-up of the PS3 you should should look at http://vgchartz.com/ [vgchartz.com] and plot the PS3 against the Xbox360 (align the launches) and there is little difference. The Wii is the only console that has literally broken all records for console sales, but how long this will go on remains to be seen.

Actually the only current generation console that you can (sort of) modify is the PS3 since you can use it as a media server and can put Linux on it if you want to run emulators. I do have a Backwards Compatible PS3 (it is annoying to make this distinction now) and my only native PS3 game is Oblivion which is IMHO a great game but I also have plenty of PS2 games (I even buy new ones) that tide me over till the PS3 has more games I like. Sounds weird but a smoothed and unscaled "good" PS2 game on a HDTV really adds to the game play and you can save quite a lot of money doing this, I know I have.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21449095)

RRoD class action lawsuits
Any 360 bought since the system was released is still covered under warranty for RRoD problems. How can there be class action lawsuits about it?

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

cerberusss (660701) | more than 6 years ago | (#21477301)

For some strange reason this post was modded -1 flamebait. I got the metamod and selected 'unfair'.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1, Flamebait)

Osty (16825) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448775)

If that's really a repeating issue on his box, and folks aren't reporting similar experiences because you "can't return video games," then establishing a class is the way to make sure anyone with problems can jump on the bandwagon. It lowers the barrier to file suit, in the same way that corporations have had that barrier lowered, vis-a-vis bulk subpoena provisions in the DMCA.

This guy is just an idiot with a console that hasn't completely died yet. Halo 3 isn't causing his console to crash. His almost-broken console is causing Halo 3 to crash. He simply needs to call Xbox support and get it fixed or replaced for free.

Leave it to a Californian to file a lawsuit where a simple phone call would suffice.

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 6 years ago | (#21453853)

Disclaimer: I am an American who hates the current litigious society.

Correction:

Leave it to an American to file a lawsuit where a simple phone call would suffice.

Wake up games industry! (4, Insightful)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448851)

This could turn grave for MS and Bungie very quickly,
and I hope it serves as a warning to other companies that release halfass games [wikipedia.org] .

I don't agree that Halo 3 is a halfass game at all, but it's time for game publishers and investors to wake up and realise you can't ship a buggy POS.

It doesn't happen with any other product that you can buy. If the car industry sold cars that had 3 out of the 4 seats missing and it only went half the speed advertised they would get legally hit so badly. Just because software is an abstract concept to grasp rather then a physical product doesn't mean you can rip the customer off on quality.

Re:Wake up games industry! (1)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449053)

The car is a utilitarian tool, a better analogy is if you bought a DVD movie, but the disc has some problem that won't let it play past the first 15 minutes. But then again, if that happened to you you'd go back and get a refund - and any reputable game shop will take back a product that is widely known to be defective. This isn't to mention that consumer law in most jurisdictions provide a time limit to return *all* products, regardless of store policy.

This is worth a refund, not a lawsuit.

Re:Wake up games industry! (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449165)

You get refunds!?! I haven't been able to get a refund in the UK since 2002! Swapping game x for game y is not a refund btw.

I don't like your analogy. In your example the DVD is fine but the physical media is broken. It would make more sense if your DVD played fine but half the content was missing and sometimes the audio would disappear because they didn't edit it in.

Game's are more complicated in that they'll release a program that they know doesn't work.

Look at the example I listed. Soldner was the worse game I ever purchased. On the back of the box it promised 13 drivable vehicles, 5 (i think) different aircraft, amazing AI, etc. What I actually got after I bought and installed the game was that you were limited to x amount of vehicles because they hadn't finished adding half of the others in. The AI was completely buggy and would headshot you from 1km away (no joke!).

So what did the community say? "Wait for the patch", "wait for the patch". You can read from the link how that went.. They released the game AGAIN and it was UNFINISHED AGAIN but this time they changed the name so they could dupe a new set of people into buying their same game, this time slightly patched.

Re:Wake up games industry! (2, Insightful)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449269)

Who says the physical media is broken? Perhaps I bought a DVD where, due to a bug in the menu code, I can't navigate past chapter 10. In that case it's clearly a product worthy of recall, but if I sued the movie studio I'd be rightfully laughed out of court. Buying this broken DVD caused me no harm, and as long as I got a refund on it that's the end of that - any further action would just be needless antagonism, greed, or both.

Did they release a program that they know doesn't work? Have you looked into their bug database to ascertain the veracity of your claim? It's entirely likely that a product may be broken in ways that the manufacturer had never anticipated.

Your Soldner example perfectly illustrates my point. If I bought a copy of Gigli on DVD, I cannot seriously demand a return on account of it being a bad movie. It promised me a compelling storyline, but none existed! Shock! Gasp! Not playing correctly is one thing, but being a bad movie is not a crime, nor is being a bad game. This is one area where I think caveat emptor is perfectly justified.

Swapping game x for game y is not a refund btw.

I'm well aware of that. However, perhaps you ought to review your local consumer protection legislation and bylaws. Here in Canada, for example, any product or service can be refunded within 14 days, if it fails to perform as advertised or claimed, assuming that the product is in reasonably new shape. I know most parts of the USA have this, so perhaps the UK does as well.

Not to mention the fact that there's a difference between "this game sucks, give me my money back" and "this game won't even start up on my non-modified completely-stock console"!

Re:Wake up games industry! (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450237)

Your Soldner example perfectly illustrates my point. If I bought a copy of Gigli on DVD, I cannot seriously demand a return on account of it being a bad movie. It promised me a compelling storyline, but none existed! Shock! Gasp! Not playing correctly is one thing, but being a bad movie is not a crime, nor is being a bad game.
I guess what I am talking about is a broken game where as you're talking about a bad game.

You can't promise on the back of the box 14 playable vehicles knowing full well you only have half done in the game and this attitude of "Don't worry we'll patch it after release". Still waiting on that patch for what was promised on the box.. it's only been a few years..

I don't really care about bad games, we're always going to have those, but there is no need for a company to ship a broken game into the market. Especially since you can't refund PC games, although I think it's console too now.

Re:Wake up games industry! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21449273)

So.... complain to the company and get your money back, or sue them. No offense, but complaining about them getting away with shit while simultaneously doing nothing about it just makes you look like a twit. Grow a spine.

Re:Wake up games industry! (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450179)

So.... complain to the company and get your money back, or sue them. No offense, but complaining about them getting away with shit while simultaneously doing nothing about it just makes you look like a twit.
uh.. that's my point... "Suit Filed Over 'Halo 3 Incompatibility'". Did you even read the title?

Publishers should take this as a warning not to release games they know aren't finished yet.

Grow a spine.
Whatever, Anonymous Coward.

Re:Wake up games industry! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21459927)

I'm talking about you, your problem with Soldner, and your inability to do anything productive about it except whine on a forum. They won't learn unless you do something about it. Grow a spine and deal with your problems, Gay Ass Retard.

Re:Wake up games industry! (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450819)

Yeah, but aim the anger at someone who deserves it. Xbox titles are remarkably stable; it's PC games where 3 out of 5 titles on the shelf are buggy beyond belief. Just a couple days ago in another thread I was talking about what a buggy POS Battlefield: 2142 is... THAT game deserves a class-action suit. Halo 3 is pretty good.

Re:Half-assed spelling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21451091)

Converted to an adjective, the verb "to half-ass" is usually written "half-assed".

Re:Might spell BIG trouble (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449829)

I doubt very much this is a widespread issue. When a console game releases with major crash-bugs, it tends to be picked up in reviews or even make the news (by contrast with PC games, where it is often treated as par for the course). Even minor bugs tend to report in screaming all over the forums. I've seen absolutely nothing of the sort on any of the forums I would expect to with regard to Halo 3. If a game *this* big had a serious crash bug, it would have been on the TV news.

Halo 3 isn't a great game (although it's by no means bad either). It's way too short and besides HD graphics, it doesn't add much that wasn't in Halo 2. That said, there is absolutely no reason to believe that it's a broken game.

Of course it does (1, Troll)

Minwee (522556) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448519)

Microsoft's highly touted "Halo 3" video game, made exclusively for its Xbox 360, causes the Xbox to freeze or crash

I'm impressed he could even get it to load on an Xbox. As the article clearly says, it is designed for the Xbox _360_.

Doesn't anybody even read the system requirements before going to court?

Read the complaint (3, Informative)

faloi (738831) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448585)

It's pretty explicit in the complaint that the failing system is a Xbox 360. Maybe the people at Kotaku figured everybody reading the article would know that the guy was trying it on a 360, so they didn't explicitly state it in their summary.

Re:Read the complaint (1)

darkonc (47285) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449039)

Well, everybody but Minwee, anyways ... I think it's fair to say that most people figured it out.

Actually, if I had moderation points today, I would have moderated Minwee's comment 'funny', not 'interesting'.

Re:Read the complaint (1)

Jarjarthejedi (996957) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450777)

It seems like a lot of companies are calling the 360 just the XBox now, I've seen 3 ads (2 for Black Friday, one just for the week) where they are apparently selling an XBox Arcade pack, with an XBox and a number of XBox Live Arcade titles. Of course that's actually a 360, but it seems like companies have decided that the 360 is the XBox now or something.

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21448573)

Suit Filed Over 'Windows Vista Incompatibility'
"Microsoft's highly touted "Windows Vista " operating system, made exclusively for CISC processors, causes the pc to freeze or crash, ruining fun time, according to a federal class-action complaint ... Lead plaintiff Joe Blow says he paid $299.99 for his operating system. He wants class certification and damages."

Re:In other news... (1)

renegadesx (977007) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450379)

There was actually a lawsuit many years ago about previous versions of Windows. No joke.

Mind you people sue for various reasons. Some small time developer tried to sue the open source community memebers because better OSS was avaliable and he couldn't compete with "free". So he tried suing the Linux companies for "price fixing"

Anyone remember that?

Anyways this case in partiular, seems just like a standard 360 on it's way out nothing more. Maybe his disc could be scratched ontop of that (chances are he didn't check) and he's pissed about it. A simple call to Microsoft and half a brain would have sorted the issue out.

At the same time shouldn't Microsoft be working harder to cool their console? The hardware failures are THE reason I haven't bought one yet. I have been waiting for someone who isn't Microsoft saying 'they are resolved'.

When are the 45nm models comming out?

Not a Xbox 1 (3, Informative)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448575)

I know it sounds ambiguous but upon reading the complaint [courthousenews.com] it turns out it is indeed about having the game not run on a Xbox 360, and not a Xbox "1".

difficult case (1)

kabloom (755503) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448587)

That would be a very difficult case to win, considering that he would have to overcome the lack of warranty clause that is undoubtedly in Microsoft's EULA on the game.

Re:difficult case (1)

CanadaIsCold (1079483) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448629)

He would also need to prove that there wasn't a pre-existing defect in his x-box 360. Such as the overheating issue that microsoft has extended the warranty. I had problems running Halo 3 as well so I went online to microsoft support and learned how to clear my cache. Since then it has been running without a hitch. Maybe look for xbox support instead of launching suit.

Re:difficult case (1)

fullmetal55 (698310) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448703)

most games actually have a limited warranty. Warranty that the game will operate, or be replaced. you usually have to send it back to the publisher to get a replacement. Since there hasn't been an outcry regarding this being a major problem between the game and the console, It's entirely possible he got a bum disc, which is causing read errors which causes the crashes. and it makes me wonder if he's tried to exercise the warranty on the physical disc?

Re:difficult case (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448719)

I have rarely if ever seen an EULA for console games. Does Halo 3 even present one?

Even if it did have one, most of the terms on eula's haven't been tested in court.

Finally, its one thing to say there are a million PCs out there and each one is different, has different hardware, different software, different settings, and its unreasonable that we warrant that it work on all of them. Its something else entirely to release a game exclusively for the xbox 360 that won't run reliably on an xbox 360. An xbox 360 is a very well defined platform, with almost no variation - its reasonable to expect the publisher to warrant that the product functions on it. If it doesn't then the product is *defective*.

Re:difficult case (2, Insightful)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448827)

I have rarely if ever seen an EULA for console games. Does Halo 3 even present one?

I think an EULA on a video game would be even worse than an EULA on software. On the latter, you need to make a copy of it for the thing to work at all. For a video game, you never make a copy at all, and require the physical copy the publisher gave you.

Re:difficult case (2, Interesting)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449265)

Well, you know that the game is warranted to work with the Xbox 360. Both by the way the console games get published and by the way the box says it is for the Xbox 360. You couldn't place a warranty somewhere else to avoid a fitness for representations they made in the advertising and marking on the box.

It would be extremely absurd to expect someone to get away with selling something as gasoline and informing you after your purchase that is won't work in engines that run on gas. Especially if there is a picture of a guy poring it into his cars gas tank on the box.

So warranty or not, they have made several representations that they simply cannot take back after accepting your money. MS (or ws it bestbuy with an MS product? )lost a lawsuit over this already and had to put the EULAs online and point people the locate somewhere on the box. But the Games for the Xbox 360 say directly on the box that it is for the Xbox360 not an Xbox360 compatible console. There is no alternative for this. IF it doesn't work, they misrepresented something.

Re:difficult case (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21449489)

I don't know about American law, but under Australian law (which is probably simillar) when you purchase goods or you services certian conditions and warranties are implied into the transaction. These are consumer's statutory rights and cannot be waived regardless what M$ put in an EULA.

If the product is faulty, and has caused damage to property (in this case his XBOX 360). The consumer is entitled to compensation from the manufacturer.

Re:difficult case (1)

kabloom (755503) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450309)

See Wikipedia about EULAs [wikipedia.org] under Product Liability

Re:difficult case (1)

Pofy (471469) | more than 6 years ago | (#21453019)

>See Wikipedia about EULAs under Product Liability

There is nothing there regarding consumers and the law in the USA which was what the person asked about (and also the article is about a consumer). The case given is for a company buying software which is not a consumer. So does there exist any consumer laws regulating things like liability and if they can be "contracted away" or not?

lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21448685)

What next, people suing because they accidently deleted their word document and emptied the recycle bin?

I played through Halo 3 start to finish 3 times (once online coop, once offline coop and a 3rd time for the metagame achievements). I've also got 1k gamerscore in it so have put a decent amount of time into multiplayer and have yet to experience a single crash.

Right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21448729)

So can I sue Vivendi for Tribes 2? Damn did that game crash.

Re:Right... (1)

TGTilde (874930) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449107)

A UE was always fun :). As much as I loved that game, it should never have shipped in its initial condition. Either not enough play testing is done these days, or companies aren't responding to play testers opinions as well. There are exceptions to this, just listen to the developer commentary in a Orange Box game. I have disliked the idea of having a game going gold and a patch being released before the ship date for a long time, though sometimes it is inevitable. It has become so commonplace that we completely disregard it. Anyway, sorry for the off topic rant. As far as TFA goes, I'm glad it's happening even if it gets dismissed or beating down. Game companies need to be held responsible for their buggy software. While I am not sure Bungie and M$ deserve this lawsuit, perhaps it will open some eyes and prevent catastrophic launches for fear of being sued.

STOP THE PRESSES!! (1)

Cathoderoytube (1088737) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448773)

How does this stuff even make the news? Is this some rule in the media that if somebody files a class action suit for anything no matter what it is or how ludicrous it makes the papers?

Re:STOP THE PRESSES!! (1)

Malevolyn (776946) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449561)

Actually, you're absolutely right. That's exactly what the people filing these lawsuits want. They know it's ridiculous and they're hoping a giant amount of press will back them up.

Well, either that or they talk to trees. You never know these days...

Re:STOP THE PRESSES!! (1)

LilGuy (150110) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450005)

I don't think you understand the relationship in play here. The more ridiculous a lawsuit the more press coverage it gets.

Re:STOP THE PRESSES!! (1)

Floritard (1058660) | more than 6 years ago | (#21453553)

Obviously you never read Kotaku. I like the site and read it daily, but they do post a lot of trivial nonsense on it. It's less a gaming news site, and more a true to form blog than anything else. Which is fine really, but while the bad gamer tattoos and game mascot Jackolanterns of late are amusing, the worst items are probably the authors' daily thoughts posting about the minutia of their exciting lives as game bloggers. I haven't yet been able to read through one of those posts completely as they seem to pride themselves on being as irrelevant as possible. Oh well, that's what that old scroll wheel is for and it sure gets a work out on Kotaku.

Of course, why this ever made it to /. is another story. Kotaku has gossip on the latest console hardware failures all the time, so I don't know why this apparently meritless court case is any more interesting.

Good God.. slashdot is now actively feeding trolls (2, Insightful)

kurokaze (221063) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448861)

Seriously.. this guy is nothing more than an attention whore. How the hell does he not know about the 3yr warranty on his console? if he's even had a single support call his console would have been replaced. Sheesh.

This made me annoyed enough to actually post something!

Re:Good God.. slashdot is now actively feeding tro (1)

Rebelgecko (893016) | more than 6 years ago | (#21474935)

The warranty is only 1 year (but 3 years if the console needs repair due to the "Red Ring of Death"). My Xbox started having problems very similar described in the complaint. After about 2 days their online support has yet to respond, but I really doubt that they will fix my Xbox 360 for free.

In related news... (3, Funny)

tabby (592506) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448863)

This just in. Stupid arrogant litigation-happy people play games too.

lawyer world (1)

koutkeu (655921) | more than 6 years ago | (#21448943)

Well on the other hand ..Mac Do got sued cause their coffee was hot and burned an old lady. WE live in a world where soon we will have warning stickers on knifes "warning touching the blade may cut you"

Re:lawyer world (2, Interesting)

MSFanBoi2 (930319) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449149)

What they don't tell you about that lawsuit is that McDonalds ended up suing the town or state (not sure which one) that required the coffee to be at 140 degrees which was hotter than the McDonalds standard temperatures for serving coffee. McDonalds ended up getting 80% of the money back they lost to the woman in the suit.

Re:lawyer world (1)

DM9290 (797337) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449407)

Do you have a link for that? Isn't this is something McDonalds would have raised as a defense against the original suit. This sounds fishy. i read they appealed and had the damages reduced by something around 80%. But I've never heard that McDonalds had any justification for the temperature of its coffee. Specifically I read that it served it 20 degrees hotter than other coffee vendors in the area and that it had received something like 700 prior complaints of burns from the coffee.

Re:lawyer world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21463779)

That sounds like an urban legend. Considering the amount of misinformation [centerjd.org] floating around about this case, unless you have a source, I am going to assume your statement is bunk.

Re:lawyer world (1)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449397)

for someone who posts with a link to the c law guild, you're pretty ignorant about what happened, aren't you? I know, I know, it's claw guild. Still, a simple google would have given you the facts.

Re:lawyer world (1)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449777)

Have you read the facts on that case?

Stella Awards [stellaawards.com]

That McDonalds had settled many times before. They didn't settle with her because they were expecting her to die of old age first. No plaintiff, no case.

Re:lawyer world (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 6 years ago | (#21453873)

I personally like the chainsaw manual that reads, "Do not attempt to stop chain with hands or genitals."

Re:lawyer world (1)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 6 years ago | (#21454871)

this actually happened (afaik, no, I didn't check snope, yadda yadda). I was in alt.tasteless about 10+ years ago, when the ER nurse/friend posted that story. Pretty cringe inducing, lemme tell you.

an interesting case of consumer protection (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21449047)

The case is more compelling than a traditional "it doesn't work" case because it's the same company handling the hardware and the software--thus it is a defect in MS systems. The software is covered by consumer protection laws, regardless of the EULA (and the hardware may or not still be). So, if MS has a knowledge of errors in 1% of the cases, then they'll have to fix it/pay for it. Regardless of knowledge of errors, a court is going to look favorably on the plaintiff because it's like a Ford car dealer selling you brand new spinning rims, from Ford, that don't fit on your wheels as advertised and refusing to take them back. And they ARE saying "tough luck," because a car dealer will at least offer to see what caused the new part to fail, visually verify it, or charge a small restocking fee.

As to people talking about EULAs, they don't matter in this case. In general, EULAs are scare tactics that simply up the cost of arguing a case--they may or may not be valid in court. In this particular case, you cannot sell someone something that doesn't work--call it fraud, breach of contract, whatever. And you can't sign away that right, at least not in CA. The point of this case is probably to get access to MS testing records during discovery, which will prove whether the issue is known or not. Otherwise there's no way to verify problems beyond the one machine without insane costs. Alternatively, they could be seeking a process for return of the game (similar to a restocking fee). MS should consider that anyway, with a key deactivation, to undercut resells and provide relief for customers who have problems.

Re:an interesting case of consumer protection (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21450793)

Handling.... interesting choice of words. What do you think the odds are that this guy's xbox and power brick are properly ventilated as recommended in the documentation for the xbox 360. After my first 360 ringed out, I restacked all my entertainment appliances to provide for this. Now my cable box doesn't have the proper ventilation, but it's not mine. Since then, not a hiccup from the 360. Annoying yes. But given that 360 games have more or less replaced TV (and to some extent feature movies) obviously I'm taking advantage of the change.

You can sell something that doesn't work. You can sell magnets that children can swallow (which will require surgery and or end in death). In this case Microsoft's defect rate is probably around some 1 in 10,000. That's a lot of working, and it's horrible. Given that most systems shoot for better than 1 in a million and consider worse than that a gigantic failure (see all the shit MS has to deal with). Given how the 360 is used, a more reasonable defect rate from an experience point of view is one in a million customers inconvienenced over say a 3 year life. So you have something like each second of operation during a median user playing time during a 3 year span for your installed user base as the number of opportunities for potential serious failure. Which would be something in the neighborhood of an emotional expectation of reliability of no serious failures more often that about 1 in 10 billion. WOW. That's a challenge. One Microsoft definately didn't rise too. But all they'll have to do is point to the plantiffs almost certain failure to follow simple written instructions. Reading really is fundemental.

Re:an interesting case of consumer protection (1)

Jarjarthejedi (996957) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450803)

Oh how I wish I had mod points right now, you nailed it on the head. If MS sells even one copy of Halo 3 that doesn't work on their system then they have to be willing to take it back. Third Party games don't count quite the same way because both sides can claim it was the other side that caused the problem but in this case both sides are MS so no matter what's actually causing the problem (Halo 3 or the 360) MS is responsible, they have no one to blame.

Honestly I hope they lose this one. It would be a good blow against the whole 'we don't take returns on video games' mentality, probably not enough to stop it but it would at least help.

Re:an interesting case of consumer protection (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450851)

They don't have to "take it back" they have to exchange it for a working one. And they do that, both for games (through the retailer) and for consoles (through their warranty program-- extended so this guy filing the suit is covered!)

This suit is a total non-issue. If his Halo 3 disk didn't work, he should have taken it back to where he bought it and exchanged it for another disk. If that disk didn't work, he should have called Microsoft and gotten a warranty repair. You can't ignore the existing options for satisfaction, then complain that you're unsatisfied. This is nothing but an utter waste of a judge's time.

Re:an interesting case of consumer protection (1)

evilsunz (1195427) | more than 5 years ago | (#21505849)

This isn't a compelling case at all. It is another class action holdup that will get we purchasers of the product $1 each and the lawfirm of Bonnett, Fairbourn, Friedman and Balint, P.C. a fat pile of fees. Notably, their Complaint contains citations to outside sources to support their class status claim, but cites no evidence whatever for their assertions of "widespread" problems with Halo3 other than vague allusions to unspecified blogs, and forums. Other than scratches on the Limited Edition discs, there are no such reports and counsel for Mr. Nunez should be ashamed for misleading the court with claims to the contrary solely to bolster their class status claim for a shot at a fees jackpot. Also notable by its absence in the Complaint is any indication that Mr. Nunez sought either and exchange or a refund. Microsoft has alot of crap that it should be held to account for, but Halo3 ain't it.

Shitty article (4, Insightful)

Krakhan (784021) | more than 6 years ago | (#21449195)

The article states: "Bungie LLC, which makes Halo, was acquired by Microsoft in May 1991."

Completely false, the company was founded in May 1991, but only acquired by Microsoft in 2000 for the original Halo. I'd take anything this article says with a complete grain of salt.

Boy (1)

toddhunter (659837) | more than 6 years ago | (#21450337)

Is this guy going to be pissed if his next game is Assassins creed.

I had this problem also... (2, Funny)

gonzorob (820987) | more than 6 years ago | (#21452423)

"[...] causes the Xbox to freeze or crash, ruining the game"

Yeah, it totally crashed my Xbox - made it utterly unplayable...

I then tried it in my Xbox 360 and it worked a treat

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