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Lenovo Announces ThinkPads Preloaded With XP

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the give-'em-what-they-want dept.

Windows 192

BBCWatcher writes "Lenovo just announced new ThinkPad T61 models preloaded with Microsoft Windows XP. Ironically they're called ThinkPad T61 'TopSeller' models. Lenovo says they're aimed at small and medium-sized businesses. The XP TopSellers are available immediately, and the part numbers are 6465-03U, 7658-04U, and 7664-06U (PDF links). "Lenovo recommends Windows Vista Business"? Not so much."

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who cares? (-1, Troll)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597529)

What we really want is real boobs!

Re:who cares? (-1, Offtopic)

creimer (824291) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597677)

You want a laptop equipped with a baby bottle?!

Re:who cares? (-1, Troll)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597719)

Here's a penis: it's not as tough as mine but it will do well for boyish gay-repressed nerds like you.
Get a life!

XP makes sense (-1, Offtopic)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597533)

Hopefully not too many will be DOA like this one was. []

The last 2 laptops I bought were from Dell, and I had to contact customer service to get a link to the xp machines available under my companies discount deal with them. But they had it right handy, so they must get the question a lot.

Re:XP makes sense (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21597807)

Top 5 Star Trek jokes

Why did Kirk stop letting Spock see the Captain's Log?
Because he sometimes spelt 'enterprise' wrong.

What time of day is the best on the Enterprise?

Why was Scotty angry with Kirk?
Because he thought he could fix the engines by pouring orange juice in.

Why was Spock confused by Uhulu?
Because he thought she was an alien (she is black).

What is the difference between the Enterprise and Uranus?
Uranus is a planet, the Enterprise is a space ship.

Re:XP makes sense (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597843)

For the most part, the bitch at the link you posted is that there is a 2 or 3 second delay opening IE7.

I'm sorry, maybe I just don't drink as much strong coffee as you, but that's not something that would motivate me to spend the time to write a review at Amazon. A 2 to 3 second delay in opening IE7? Terrible productivity issue for sure!

Re:XP makes sense (1)

Keyper7 (1160079) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598389)

He said at the end that there was a 3 second delay for opening each tab.

This is not an absurd productivity issue, but it's certainly annoying.

Re:XP makes sense (1)

dollar99 (922389) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598949)

The end of the Amazon post states that Lenovo refused to provide next day service even though it was clearly purchased. Ironically this also happened to me. I clearly bought next day service and they claimed to have no record of it.

WHER TEH LUNIX!?!?!?! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21598827)


On a side note, Vista's installed base exceeded the combined install base of both Lunix and Apple after the first week it went on sale. So if Vista isn't succeeding... what does that say about Apple and Teh Lunix?

Multi Boot makes sense (1)

twitter (104583) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599243)

Bill Gates might regret doing everything he could to make dual booting difficult. Ha ha.

Dell too. (5, Informative)

RandoX (828285) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597559)

When you pull up their laptop page, there are two links. "Customize with Windows XP" and "Customize with Windows Vista". Same price.

Re:Dell too. (2, Informative)

PlatyPaul (690601) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597671)

Easier than that: if you want an XP-loaded dell, just go here [] .

They're hardly pushing it (see quote below), but it's still very much an option.

Windows Vista® is the latest Operating System release from Microsoft. Windows Vista® Home Premium1 & Windows Vista® Ultimate1 offer great features like Windows Media Center which allows you to easily manage your photos, videos, & audio files and the cool interface of Windows Aero is designed to make your computer experience dynamic and fun. All versions of Windows Vista® offer new security options such as Parental Controls and integrated Anti-Spyware which help protect your family when accessing your personal data or information from the Internet and new tools such as integrated search which help enable you to get work done faster.

The choice is Yours. Dell is offering Microsoft® Windows XP on the PCs below.

Re:Dell too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21598151)

In Soviet Russia, Vista downgrades you!

This is news? (4, Informative)

inphinity (681284) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597561)

Maybe I'm missing something, but we've been buying T61's with XP for months now, without any difficulty at all.

And we're not some large megacorp either -- we buy maybe 2-3 computers every 6 weeks.

Re:This is news? (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597709)

Yeah, I always thought that businesses had more choice when it came to the OS. They're had the option of XP ever since Vista came out.

Re:This is news? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597893)

I just bought one last week and had the choice of Vista or XP. I think the news is probably that they have now have canned SKUs for XP where maybe they didn't before? As in, you could always go on and customize a laptop to have anything you want, but companies buying in large quantities probably just use a canned SKU that has the bundle they want with everything, to save time. Just guessing, though.

Now if only they would offer GNU/Linux that way. (1)

Erris (531066) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599469)

They already offer GNU/Linux preloads on select models but all of the vendors could do more. It would be nice if they offered a GNU/Linux certified option that gave you peace of mind and let you avoid the M$ tax on every model that had 100% free driver support. Imagine that. It also gets around the age old excuse of extra costs to the vendor. Models sold that way require nothing more than certification and would probably sell better than Vista. I hate giving people money for software I have no use for, M$, XP and Vista fall into this catagory.

Re:Try a regular store (5, Interesting)

BlueBat (748360) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598181)

Try looking for XP in a regular store. You will not be able to find it. I have asked about having XP placed on the computer instead of the crappy Vista and was told that it was impossible. If you want XP preloaded on a machine anymore, you need to go to a website based business it appears. By the way, it was Circuit City that told me it was Vista only. I told them no way, I would go with Linux long before I would go to Vista. They told me I could get a Mac in that case and I told them I wasn't made of money it was XP or no way. They said no way.

Re:Try a regular store (3, Funny)

polaris20 (893532) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599319)

The "brilliant" sales associates at Circuit City probably don't even know there's a difference between XP and Vista.

Re:This is news? (1)

Hawkeye05 (1056362) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599251)

I bought one for myself a few months ago with XP, its nothing new.

Re:This is news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21599325)

What makes this news is that the company (Lenovo) is equipping their laptops with windows XP instead of the supposedly superior Vista which they recommend as per Micro$ofts wishes. Vista sucks and this company knows it so they are allowing their customers a choice of operating systems included on the machines. Which until recently most companies were not. Almost everyone I know has either not upgraded yet (myself included), or has downgraded once they adopted Vista to get the bad taste out of their mouths. XP>Vista. At least for now.

Re:This is news? (1)

syd02 (595787) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599807)

This might be how they became "TopSellers."

$1200 to get a real video card (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21597635)

Is better then apple $2000 is needed there.

had to go back to xp because of IPX/SPX (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21597643)

Offtopic but it's going here anyway.

I still play a ton of older games that only allow ipx/spx for lan play. Yes everyone can get on the net and play but that doesn't work too well when you only have dialup available (yep, no cable, no fios, no dsl).

I've seen the hack for ipx/spx in vista 32bit but Red Alert 2 still doesn't show a network available and there seems to be no hacks to get it to work with 62bit vista.

Anyone know of a way to tunnel ipx/spx over tcp/ip maybe? Without an internet connection?

Re:had to go back to xp because of IPX/SPX (3, Funny)

RandoX (828285) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597685)

It doesn't work because you're missing two bits.

Re:had to go back to xp because of IPX/SPX (3, Funny)

Fx.Dr (915071) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597805)

He really needed that shave and a haircut.

Re:had to go back to xp because of IPX/SPX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21598353)

Parent can has +1, funny?

Re:had to go back to xp because of IPX/SPX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21597707)

there seems to be no hacks to get it to work with 62bit vista.
You should upgrade to 64 bit Vista.

XP/Vista (2)

MM_LONEWOLF (994599) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597657)

Personally, I'm just happy that they aren't jumping on the bandwagon and shoving Vista down our throats.

Consumer demand..? (5, Insightful)

ricebowl (999467) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597689)

So the news is that a company selling computers is selling something that the consumer's been asking for? Who'd've thought it? While I'm glad that another company, following Dell and some others, has bucked the Microsoft line, I'm not sure that it's particularly astounding.

On the other hand though, kudos to them for doing so. Now if only they'd lose the '$Company recommends Windows Vista $model' branding I'd be even more impressed. Why claim to recommend something that you fairly obviously don't? I'm aware that there are provisos from Microsoft for supplying lower-cost OEM software to these companies but, surely, at some point the marketing/PR departments are going to realise that trying to play on both sides of a particular game isn't going to look too good for them?

Ah, me and my optimism...

Re:Consumer demand..? (4, Insightful)

Entropius (188861) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597733)

Selling what the customer's asking for *is* astounding in today's world. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

ricebowl (999467) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597769)

Selling what the customer's asking for *is* astounding in today's world. It shouldn't be, but it is.

I hadn't thought about that; me and my amnesia...incidentally if I was able to mod you '+1, insightful' I so would.

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597763)

Let's look at a car analogy. If I was a car manufacturer, I could advertise that I recommended automatic transmissions, but that wouldn't mean that I wouldn't sell manual transmissions to those who wanted it. For some people, XP has advantages, for others, Vista is better. Same with automatic and manual transmissions. No one product is right for everyone, so they are selling both.

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

ricebowl (999467) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597839)

So...wouldn't that also lead to the removal, or at least qualification, of the '...recommends Windows $model'?

While I accept that there are situations and needs better addressed by Vista as opposed to XP (accept but can't think of one, but that's more my lack of familiarity with Vista than any objection to it for its own sake), but if that's the case why not simply go with '...recommends Windows'?

At least then they can support the claim by showing their list of installed-OS options.

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598057)

Maybe they are recommending Vista, because although XP works better for now, what happens when MS doesn't support it, or what happens what happens when some new program comes out that only works under Vista. IBM could have any number of reasons for recommending Vista over XP. And saying that they "recommend Windows" isn't much better. Which version do they recommend? Windows 3.1? Now they have to say, "Recommends Windows XP or Vista". But then why recommend anything, because you're recommendations are just a list of the available options.

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

zhenya00 (972438) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599225)

They only 'recommend' Vista because they, like every other large computer manufacturer, are required to in the terms of their agreements with Microsoft in order to keep their OEM pricing model. If they 'choose' (and I use that term loosely) not to 'recommend' Vista in their advertising, their wholesale prices will go up, and they will be unable to remain competitive with the ultra-slim margins that most computer companies operate on.

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

jamstar7 (694492) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599573)

IBM could have any number of reasons for recommending Vista over XP.

Lenovo isn't IBM [] .

That being said, I have an antique T22 that runs Ubuntu nicely. What I'd like to see Lenovo offer some time in the future, when my T22 finally dies the Real Death, is an option for some flavor of Linux on a new Thinkpad out the door.

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

darthflo (1095225) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597845)

AFAIK '$Company recommends Windows Vista $model', if printed everywhere, gets 'em many dollars from Microsoft. It's like with ads in magazines; the advertiser (in this case Microsoft) buys some space (and, in this case, a "recommendation") for lotsa money.
With all the OEM discounts and marketing aid going on, I imagine that little line may be worth half the ad, so the marketing department damn sure won't remove it.

Also, I don't think it's doing too much harm. Those interested in not getting Vista will usually be versed enough to find the XP/Ubuntu models and ignore the recommendation, those interested in large quantities get matching offers anyways and those not caring about what they're getting won't bother to look for alternatives (blindly accepting the "recommendation").

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

BeanThere (28381) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597985)

So the news is that a company selling computers is selling something that the consumer's been asking for? Who'd've thought it?

You know, pretty much every news event in the world can be similarly derisively portrayed when distilled to its more abstract or generic form. For example, if a plane crashed killing hundreds, you might say "So the news is that some plane crashed?" - there's nothing insightful about saying "Gee who'dve thought it?" (cynical remark != intelligent remark); just because it's well-known that planes sometimes crash, doesn't mean it's not interesting news when it happens. Likewise for pretty much anything, e.g. troops getting killed, terrorist bombings, mall/school shootings, etc. - their generalised forms are all well-known to occur already; it's not the underlying concept of an event that interests people, it's particular instances of such events. (I'm not saying this story is actually interesting, of course, but your reasoning as portrayed doesn't cut to the cause of its boringness.)

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

irtza (893217) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598325)

at some point the marketing/PR departments are going to realise that trying to play on both sides of a particular game isn't going to look too good for them?

Well, that may be true, but when the finance department tells the marketing department that the MS advertisement rebate which finances the marketing department is higher than their profit margin/machine and keeps them in business is dependent on that phrase appearing on their site, the marketing department will look the other way.

MS may not be able to demand X dollars per maching, but they have a whole slew of other dirty tactics to use.

dislaimer, this comment is unresearched and an unfair accusation, but doesn't it feel good to bash MS with an intelligent and plausible comment like this one? I bet if this disclaimer wasn't here, some people might actually believe it.

Re:Consumer demand..? (1)

christurkel (520220) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598373)

Dont get excited. january 2008 is when MS will stop XP sales and preloads.

OEM agreement (1)

HPNpilot (735362) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598495)

The marketing line is part of the OEM sales agreement. This is just like "We recommend Duracell batteries" which was required to get into the best pricing tiers. I don't know the exact deal Lenovo or Dell gets from Microsoft but I would say that if you were them you would probably do the exact same thing. When you become a publicly owned corporation your duty is to the shareholders, not to follow some ideological path which may or may not have some future goodwill benefit. Placing that line in the marketing materials has a tangible financial result yet does nothing to persuade anyone who has done due diligence to buy Vista.

yes but... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21597741)

...does it run linux?

Screw Vista, screw XP. If they offered a Thinkpad with Ubuntu pre-installed and everything working right I'd buy it tomorrow. The Dellbuntus are great but their hardware options aren't very broad.

Re:yes but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21597969)

If they offered a Thinkpad with Ubuntu pre-installed and everything working right I'd buy it tomorrow.

Sure you would -- just like the other 6.4 million loud-mouthed Linux zealots who suddenly vanish when it's time to back up those big words with big action. If even 50% of you guys actually put your money where your mouth is, Linux might matter.

Re:yes but... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21599047)

If they offered a thinkpad with any other distro other than Ubuntu I might consider it. Honestly, you Ubuntu fanboys are worse than the Apple homos

Re:yes but... (1)

pipatron (966506) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599197)

So they are supposed to offer their computers with each different distribution pre-installed, or just your favorite?

Re:yes but... (1)

WeeLad (588414) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599759)

I'd be happy with a "No Operating System" option.

Re:yes but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21600139)

I'd be happy with a "No Operating System" option.
Insert parts supplier of choice here.

You can buy a pre-assembled car with the options they have, or you can order one with only parts you want, but it will cost more. The other option is to buy all the parts yourself and build it yourself. The exact same situation with computers.

if they came loaded with choice of linux distro... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21597767)

with working wi-fi drivers, we'd buy some.

poor linus is being made to look inept due to wi-fi driver squabbling.

Exactly yesterday (1)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597787)

I've got my Lenovo Topseller R61. And yes, it comes with Vista preloaded, so they may be "top selling" both versions.

And no, no "top seller" version has Linuzzz preinstalled in any shape and form.

Why Won't MS Do Dual Licensing? (4, Interesting)

BigAssRat (724675) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597835)

I am surprised that MS doesn't allow you to purchase a Vista license that allows the use of XP if you would rather. I bet then they could really beef up their Vista sales numbers, even if only on paper. Who would be able to say that 75% of users purchased Vista but installed XP instead? Looks like they could "win" the numbers game.

Re:Why Won't MS Do Dual Licensing? (1)

GottMitUns (1012191) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597907)

That's kind of deal I got last year - buying XP PC with free Vista upgrade. HP delivered on its promise, alas Vista did not work out for me it's still unregeistred, and I always boot to XP.

Re:Why Won't MS Do Dual Licensing? (5, Informative)

Tranzistors (1180307) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597971)

They do - for business and ultimate versions:
The OEM versions of Windows Vista Business and Windows Vista Ultimate include downgrade rights to Windows XP Professional, Windows XP Professional x64, and Windows XP Tablet PC.

From here []

Re:Mod parent up! (1)

grand_it (949276) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598959)

+ informative

Vista Business and Vista Ultimate licenses allow a cost-free downgrade to Windows XP. Other vendors are shipping PCs with XP preloaded and free upgrade to Vista (Maxdata/Belinea for example).

That is actually a Windows Vista Business license for wich the vendor pre-applied the *DOWNgrade* option. I'm pretty sure that those machine are counted in the Windows Vista market share.

Wow, how friendly. (-1, Troll)

Erris (531066) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599579)

You get to chose one or the other. Forever.

Imagine you could just move the software you have already purchased from your old computer to your new computer.

Imagine you could dual boot or run things in virtual machines.

Imagine Vista worked at all. Opps [] .

M$ has made all of the above difficult so they can continue to sell you the same thing again and again. I'm supposed to be impressed by one time use "downgrade rights"? Directions on Microsoft got this one right [] :

The whole concept that you have to buy an upgrade so you can downgrade to an older version is perverse anywhere but inside Microsoft

MODERATORS: Inconsistencies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21599707)

You sure link a lot to this person's [] journal. Who in fact just posted [] to this same article.

It's interesting how both accounts use the same writing style, do the same "M$" thing and even misspell the same words consistently.

Are you posting to Slashdot with two accounts? Is that even allowed?

Re:MODERATORS: Inconsistencies? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21600075)

no one gives a shit how hard you suck twitters dick, fucktard.

Re:Why Won't MS Do Dual Licensing? (1)

DeeQ (1194763) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598637)

I doubt they care enough about the numbers. They are what they are and people will continue to buy microsoft,wether it be Xp or Vista (most likely Xp) giving them more money.

This is the end I tell you! (4, Funny)

Toreo asesino (951231) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597859)

Haha! Microsoft will surely die now, what with all these companies choosing Windows XP instead of Vista!

Wait a minute....

Re:This is the end I tell you! (4, Insightful)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598007)

Actually, staying on XP does, indirectly, have a negative impact on MS. Since Vista went over so poorly, shareholders get irritated that all that money they spent on R&D isin't making much of a return, and thus don't want them to take a risk like this again. Vista must succeed for the shareholders to be happy.

Re:This is the end I tell you! (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21598343)

Is there room for growth? Always. But I think shareholders are happy with MSFT regardless of Vista, considering they have revenue of US $50-60B/year and an operating income of over $20B/year a year. If Vista ends up being that big of a failure, they can always fall back on XP and continue maintaining and improving that. One of their big cash cows, the Office suite, seems to be doing great with many people rolling out Office 2007 on a large scale.

Re:This is the end I tell you! (1)

suyashs (645036) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598609)

They should pull a Centrino. Just acknowledge that their latest sucks and go back and optimize and refresh XP. Use what they learned from Vista's development and not make the same mistakes.

Re:This is the end I tell you! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21599721)

I agreed, until I thought about it. If open source has to continue to chase updating Windows versions, it will never be as good. If all commercial programs from here on run on XP, the being XP compatible is enough. The difference between a stationary target and a moving one.

Siiigh (0, Troll)

BlueParrot (965239) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597865)

I wish legislators would just get off their ass and prohibit Microsoft from charging different prices for the stand-alone OS and the OEM versions. Sure, if Microsoft were playing nice they should have the privilege to set prices as they see fit. Problem is that they haven't been playing nice, rather they have used their OEM discounts and other bribes ( yeas that is what they are ) to force suppliers into installing Windows on every machine.

The consequences should be obvious, if they abuse their privilege to set different prices for different customers, then they should lose that privilege, end of story. You don't even have to force the vendors to unbundle windows, if there is a demand for machines without Windows it will sort itself out once you stop Microsoft from preventing it. Simply put, if they can make a profit selling the OS to OEMs for X then they are abusing their monopoly if they demand 2X from regular customers.

Re:Siiigh (1)

Entropius (188861) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598071)

Microsoft has already done things far more worthy of prohibition than this, and were convicted in court for it ... and then the Bush administration conveniently dropped the case when they were appointed. I wish legislators would get off their ass and enforce the judgments that already exist.

And? (4, Funny)

z0M6 (1103593) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597899)

At first I didn't really see the point. It is a laptop with windows XP. How was that news-worthy? Then I kind of remembered that vista is the new ME and it seems a lot of people think so too.

Vista to XP - upgrade or downgrade? (3, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | more than 6 years ago | (#21597915) []

The only downgrade from Vista to XP is the price.. .and hassles besides. Why does everyone insist XP is inferior compared to Vista? As far as the user eXPerience is concerned XP is way ahead of Vista, so it is an Upgrade.

Re:Vista to XP - upgrade or downgrade? (2, Funny)

mgblst (80109) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598061)

Some people actually like the new flashy stuff. Some people at my work. These are more the "decision" types, who don't actually have to use their computer for anything important, don't really now much about them, but still feel that they have earned to right to make decisions affecting us all.

Re:Vista to XP - upgrade or downgrade? (1)

Donniedarkness (895066) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598207)

But vista is NEW! And... SHINEY! And... it's got this cool bar that lets you put widge...errr... gadgets on it! Totally worth your RAM committing suicide.

You mean your RAM being used as it should be. n/t (1)

sid0 (1062444) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599725)


I have one since September (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21598019)

I have a T61 (exact model is ThinkPad T61 7661-A12 ) since late September... best laptop I ever had, flying fast.

2K to XP again..... ? (2, Interesting)

jabjoe (1042100) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598063)

Has this happened before, a mass downgrading from the latest Windows to the previous version? Have to say, not to my knowledge. Many people have said this happens with every new version of Windows. Really? I personally wasn't happy with going from 2k to XP because XP didn't add anything and was all cute/telly tubby and was a bit slower. Like many, after being on 2K became a problem I moved (on work machines you don't always have a choice), I moaned but that was it. Once I turned off all the crap I was fine. From 9x to NT even though it was a big step I don't think there where many people thinking twice. NT was without question much much better/stable. But with Vista things do seam to be happening differently. As a programmer I'm noticing lots of min operating system : Vista for API calls in msdn that would be useful, so there is good stuff there. But there is the huge shadow of compatibility and poor performance which means work isn't even thinking of moving. Personal users fear the DRM and anti piracy tech, not to mention bad performance. The only thing I can see to resolve this is MS starting to take the stuff users don't want out. That already seams to be happening with the removing of the kill switch.

yes (4, Informative)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598195)

Dos 4
Windows 2

Re:yes (1)

jank1887 (815982) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599171)

please, let's not make this about you...

I just.... (1)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598079)

I just bought a Thinkpad in the last 3 months.

XP Professional was on many of the laptop configs. Just ask your salesmen if it wasnt. I just got the crappy Vista (home basic... whatever) and installed XP Pro and Ubuntu after fixing the partition map.

I think the only place NOT to recommend XP are the touchscreen models, as Vista has better touchscreen support.

Been using a ThinkPad with Vista for half a year (4, Interesting)

felix9x (562120) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598093)

I been using a ThinkPad X60 with Vista Business for six month. Generally I had no major issues and like how Vista works. Here are a few notes though:

1. By default the CPU is set to run at half the speed. My notebook came with a 1.8Ghz Core2 Duo, but by default the power settings are set to run it at 900Mhz. In fact thats the only speed the laptop does not get hot as hell. Even at the lower speed most desktop apps work fast enough.

2. I did a few tweaks myself like disable shadow copy and windows defender. I decided to leave the indexer on since I actually like what it provides.

3. With the most recent updates I think a few annoying things got fixed. The laptop comes out of sleep faster and copying seems to be faster.

4. Wireless networking sometimes is flaky. I don't know if Vista is responsible or its due to the interference where I live or its the lenovo wireless utils that are sluggish.

5. I really like the minor UI improvements in Vista like the new resource monitor. I don't see why it cant be back ported to XP.

Re:Been using a ThinkPad with Vista for half a yea (1) (741064) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598577)

Wow...... underclocking what a concept!

Re:Been using a ThinkPad with Vista for half a yea (1)

metalcoat (918779) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599395)

We have 4 Laptops with 2 different wireless cards (N and G) and both have problems with associating with wireless networks. I believe wireless networkings is seriously broken in Vista.

Re:Been using a ThinkPad with Vista for half a yea (1)

pyrr (1170465) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599709)

Actually, that's probably just SpeedStep or whatever they're calling it now. When the mobile CPU isn't being taxed, it'll drop to half-speed or less to save power. As soon as you throw a load at it, it'll dynamically scale upwards to full speed. It's easy to monitor this on Kubuntu, a mouseover on the power manager icon shows what speed the cores are running at with a glance, at idle it'll show the current speed with half of the bar graphs filled, when it's being hammered, the bars fill up and the display shows the full core speed. Windows does exactly the same scaling, it's just hidden.

I would also note that you could disable SpeedStep in the BIOS on older Thinkpads (and likely other makes & models too). Doing so would fix the processor at the lower speed (lest you think you're going to get it to run full-tilt all the time), but avoided some of the serious performance problems associated with the way Windows was managing SpeedStep, I don't know if that issue has since been fixed.

How is this news? (2, Informative)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598135)

You could always order a CTO Thinkpad T61 with Windows XP Professional preloaded. It cost a bit more than Vista Home Basic, but the same as Home Premium or Business.

Heh great name (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598147)

But I will tell you this. The thinkPad is one of the few machines that run pretty well with Vista. It's damn near tolerable. I kid I kid. Actually I'm becoming a convert as I learn the system. Some parts are really silly, but boy, what a beautiful face! It is unfortunate that so much time is spent uninstalling the crapware and disabling some "services", if that's what you call them. Don't know who they serve. And the ThinkPad still comes with that "button" mouse which beats the hell of a trackpad. The only to fly.

Re:Heh great name (2, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598229)

Like any relationship, it takes more then a beautiful face to live with someone day in and day out.

Re:Heh great name (3, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598369)

Think of it as a new, really hot girlfriend that doesn't speak your language. Or can't get it through her @#%$!)(@# head that the roll of toilet paper should be put with the paper coming out over the top!

GNU/Linux preloaded? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21598169)

Till the choice of GNU/Linux pre-loading is not available on 99% of the personal computers around the glob... not a chance for the free desktop.

But... (2, Interesting)

Bazman (4849) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598197)

Can I buy one with neither and how well does Ubuntu run on it?

We just bought a Sony laptop with Vista and poor techie had to spend ages upgrading it to XP... Yes, I do mean upgrading... Seems Sony don't do XP graphics drivers for this model, you have to use Win 2k ones with a modified .inf file or something...

Re:But... (4, Informative)

BCW2 (168187) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598449)

Check out Emperor Linux, they have T60s and T61s preloaded with a custom kernel so everything works out of the box. Been around for a few years and have had very good reviews from Linux Journal and others.


Re:But... (2, Interesting)

JonathanErnst (981839) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598683)

Ubuntu runs perfectly on my T61. I have even managed to get a refund on my XP license.

Re:But... (2, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598569)

For everything there is to know about running Linux on Thinkpads, you should check ThinkWiki [] . In particular, here's the page on Ubuntu on T61 [] .

From personal experience with Thinkpads, they are quite Linux-friendly. My old R51e has full hardware support in Linux. The latest version of Ubuntu works fine, in particular, and so does Debian.

Re:But... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21599155)

There's no way, that I know of, to get one with neither although I find it nice to have XP dualboot for a few reasons. However, I bought an X61s (as I learned afterwards, don't bother with the 's' - it's a waste of money) and Ubuntu runs fine.

You get a solid experience "out of the box" (i.e. everything works, and you could be quite happy leaving it 'as is') but you can improve it quite a bit by doing your own tweaking. There are a few minor wireless issues, and the fact that GNOME's "screen brightness" doesn't adjust the backlight but rather just the display pixels (!!). The latter is remedied by installing 'xbacklight' although you lose the friendly Ubuntu/GNOME interface.

Happily, the intel wireless (iwl4965) has good support (open source driver except for a microcode chunk you put in /lib/firmware) and I've not had any problems with the i915 video. It's nice to not have to bother with restricted drivers and I've not had problems with compiz desktop eyecandy except for power consumption and reduced productivity.

I've spent a few hours hacking with PowerTop to get the battery life under ubuntu up from 5h15m to 6h15m with wireless; under XP I still get an extra hour or so. The next kernel should improve a lot of this; who knows when Ubuntu will package it... The wireless also sometimes has an issue on suspend/resume, unless you disable it explicitly in Gnome before suspending (nice ui for this), or patch up the suspend scripts in /etc/acpi. Not as big a deal as it may sound.

The only thing I'm having trouble with atm, is the automatic accelerometer-based hard drive parking. I have the sensor working (tho you have to compile the module yourself), but I can't get the HD-parking daemon to work.

The only serious problem under linux with no "reasonable" workaround seems to be with flashing the BIOS - there are some convoluted ways around it (see below), but I am happy to have my XP partition for this...

Everything I know, I learned here: [] .

Already upgraded. (2, Informative)

binaryspiral (784263) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598539)

I ran with the factory Vista Ultimate image on my T61p (Core Duo 2.4Ghz 2GB Ram) for a month, and couldn't take the performance hit compared to XP on my R52 (Single Core 1.8Ghz 2GB Ram).

After reading about the 1% perf increases of Vista SP1, I decided that wasn't good enough and nuked Vista, and installed XP - it's like I've weighed anchor and hoist ye misen mast.

Posted from a T61 (5, Interesting)

norbac (1113477) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598739)

I just received my brand new Lenovo T61 preloaded with Vista home basic. What a disaster... but not because of Vista, but instead because of all the pre-loaded junk. The taskbar had 7 icons in the notification area in addition to the ones from the OS, plus a useless battery power gauge that took up another big chunk of real estate (this side-by-side with the already existing Vista power gage, so I'm getting duplicate data). I actually took a screenshot [] since I couldn't believe it. I did a quick registry check and counted 30 executables set to auto-start on login. On every log on I got nagging pop-ups about turning on some lenovo software. Launching IE brought up two tabs, one set to always load the lenovo page. It was a slow, annoying mess...

I flattened the machine and installed a fresh copy of Vista Ultimate. With the all the cruft gone, things are now flying on the machine, and I'm quite happy with the OS. The difference is astounding.

All these negative comments I kept hearing about Vista make sense now, but it's clear that at least some of the disenchanment is misdirected. Don't OEM's actually use the machines they send out?

Re:Posted from a T61 (3, Insightful)

afroborg (677708) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599247)

That has always annoyed me too. Why can't you buy a laptop with plain old windows installed on it? Why does it have to have a dozen irritating utilities, all of which insist on having a taskbar icon, and most of which simply duplicate functionality that already exists within the OS?

Why would I need a branded wireless LAN config utility? The OS already does that
Why would I need a "Modem Helper" utility? The OS already knows how to work a modem
Why would I need a sound mixer utility? The OS has one already

And so many of them are bundled / built in with the drivers for the hardware, so you can't even get rid of them!

Re:Posted from a T61 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21599675)

Agreed. Most crapware is there because the vendor gets paid to install it, meaning that you should at least get the system a bit cheaper, but device-specific system tray utilities like these tend to be mostly useless, eat resources and have horrible interfaces - so why do they exist? Perhaps their is vendor demand for them based on the idea they add some 'branding' and customisation as opposed to a normal copy of XP, but the kind of user sophisticated enough to know that such differences even exist is fairly likely to know they're worthless ...

Re:Posted from a T61 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21600061)

You don't think you already do get the computer slightly cheaper because of all the paid crapware installed?

Are you really that naive?

Re:Posted from a T61 (1)

Chysn (898420) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599561)

> What a disaster... but not because of Vista, but instead because of all the pre-loaded junk.

Lenovo must be buckling under some sort of pressure. I bought an R60 (with XP Home) a little more than a year ago, and I was impressed by how much restraint they showed with the pre-loads. There was practically nothing. I did need to remove the stupid battery icon that you mentioned, and I actually started to LIKE to ThinkVantage stuff. But there were no free AOL trials, no irrelevant media players.

Somebody must've got to them...

I know it's been said before (0)

jacquesm (154384) | more than 6 years ago | (#21598849)

but how on EARTH is this news... in all the years that I've been on slashdot I can't recall a single posting of mine that actually got accepted (I stopped trying a short while ago), and just about every day there is at least one article that simply should not have made the cut. it seriously pisses me off, even though tfm says that there is no point in griping about such things because it's normal. I think that if it's 'normal' that something is wrong.

Linus is right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21599183)

I am with Linus on this one.

You know what I'd like to see? (1)

slapout (93640) | more than 6 years ago | (#21599809)

How about one with both OSes installed that you can just dual boot from? Or maybe throw Ubuntu in there and tri-boot.

My Thinkpad came with Vista (1)

InlawBiker (1124825) | more than 6 years ago | (#21600143)

My work issued T61 came with Vista, but the I.T. guys wiped it for me and put XP on it instead. Getting XP pre-loaded would have saved us a bunch of time. I don't want to use XP and I.T. doesn't want to support it. Looks like everyone's happy.
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