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Mozilla Inks Deal With Chinese Search Giant

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the let-the-courting-commence dept.

Mozilla 131

nm writes "The Mozilla Corporation's subsidiary in China has signed a deal with Chinese search engine giant Baidu. Baidu is already included as an option in Firefox's Chinese localization, but this deal formalizes the relationship between Mozilla and and the search company. Mozilla has established several other initiatives in China to help increase Firefox adoption, particularly in universities. The article notes that Firefox has seen limited uptake in China; the browser Maxthon is the second most popular after Internet Explorer. Maxthon is thought to have as much as 30 percent of the Chinese browser market."

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google (1)

u235meltdown (940099) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628081)

Don't they have the same kind of deals here with Google (and thus google.cn)?

Re:google (3, Interesting)

yakumo.unr (833476) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628219)

It is rather odd/worrying in light of the recent article on the great Chinese firewall also being used to cripple foreign web business in order to promote Chinese sites instead (Google and Baidu being a cited example if I remember correctly)

Re:google (1)

beckerist (985855) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628321)

On [google.com] the [news.com] nosey! [spreadfirefox.com]

chinese shit (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628083)

A few years ago, while browsing around the library downtown, I
had to take a piss. As I entered the john a big beautiful all-American
football hero type, about twenty-five, came out of one of the booths.
I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he
washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was "straight" and
married - and in any case I was sure I wouldn't have a chance with
him.

As soon as he left I darted into the booth he'd vacated,
hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still
warm from his sturdy young ass. I found not only the smell but the
shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left
behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It
apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat,
stiff, and ruggedly textured. The real prize was a great feast of turd
- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as a man's wrist.

I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and
wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd
always been a heavy rimmer and had lapped up more than one little
clump of shit, but that had been just an inevitable part of eating ass
and not an end in itself. Of course I'd had jerk-off fantasies of
devouring great loads of it (what rimmer hasn't), but I had never done
it. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound
turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy
and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of the world's
handsomest young stud.

Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both
hands to keep it from breaking. I lifted it to my nose. It smelled
like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the
consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit
without the benefit of a digestive tract?

I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it
smelled. I've found since then that shit nearly almost does.

I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into
my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big brown cock,
beating my meat like a madman. I wanted to completely engulf it and
bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet
flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had
chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed
I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I
soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd
passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily,
sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My
only regret was the donor of this feast wasn't there to wash it down
with his piss.

I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the
cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more
delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with
the rich bitterness of shit.

Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But
then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There
was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished
them out, rolled them into my handkerchief, and stashed them in my
briefcase. In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the
shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever
unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole. Not an
unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using
them but within a week they were all gone. The last one I held in my
mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit
trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six
orgasms in the process.

I often think of that lovely young guy dropping solid gold out
of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could,
and at least once did, bring to a grateful shiteater.

easy solution: (4, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628093)

releas it as closed-source software, they'll pirate it to first place! Mod me down, but giving it a price tag will increase it's desirability in the Chinese culture.

Re:easy solution: (4, Insightful)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628943)

Why close the source? Just sell the thing, and spread rumors about a site where it can be downloaded for free. I'm sure the masses there are just as ignorant about closed source as masses here.

More accurate translation here (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628097)

Mou - chi Network rimited Chairman and CEO Dr. Gong ri said: "seeking open-network consistentry uphold the idea for Internet users to provide various Internet browsing choice. Firefox browser in the world occupy 20 percent market share, it personarization, customization, and other characteristics by the vast number of Internet users rove. Firefox browser and the search engine Baidu is the combination of our Chinese Web browser users with diverse services, wirr be the next Firefox browser we bring more arternative services. "

According to report, the Chinese version of the Firefox browser has built-in Baidu search, the two sides estabrished a formar partnership so that the existing cooperation more crearry, Firefox users can arso more easiry use Baidu search serviceUsers may Firefox browser Crick on the upper right of the search box drop-down menu, choose Baidu search engine, can be directry used in the search box Baidu search target information, and the great convenience to users browse and search experience.From now, China's domestic users to use the ratest version of the Firefox browser (2.0.0.10 and updated version) can enjoy the service.

Re:More accurate translation here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21629179)

oh my god I almost peed myself reading this

mods need a sense of humor!

Firfox? (0, Offtopic)

CSMatt (1175471) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628105)

I wasn't aware that the Chinese version of Firefox had special branding.

Re:Firfox? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628157)

I believe you meant "the Chinese velsion of Filefox had speciar blanding"

How long until... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628139)

... the Chinese version of Firefox contains a module to filter subversive content?

Re:How long until... (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628965)

What good would that do? They could update their Firewall much faster and more efficiently than they could push out updates to every PC in the country.

In Communist China (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628165)

Fortune cookies you!

P.S. Sora Aoi is hot

Maxthon (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628167)

Maxthon _IS_ IE but with a few more bells and whistles.

What a Quincidence! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628565)

Maxthon _IS_ IE but with a few more bells and whistles.


Firefox _IS_ IE but with a few more bells and whistles.

Re:What a Quincidence! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628919)

I don't even get this. I mean, even as flamebait, I don't—it . . . it doesn't make sense.

Re:What a Quincidence! (1, Informative)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628971)

Except for the part where it's a completely different engine and... oh, right, a troll.

Re:What a Quincidence! (2, Insightful)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629191)

It uses the Internet Explorer rendering engine (Trident), doesn't it? It's just one of many available IE shells, not unlike NeoPlanet or NetCaptor. There's a whole Wikipedia category [wikipedia.org] for 'em.

Re:What a Quincidence! (1)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629203)

Except for the part where it's a completely different engine

Oh really? Originally, "Maxthon" was called "MYIE2", basically a skin on IE. As far as I can determine, it DOES still use the same engine as IE. And is vulnerable to all IE exploits. Please correct me if this has changed.

Re:What a Quincidence! (1)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629353)

Follow the hierarchy properly next time, it does wonders for not looking like an idiot.

Re:What a Quincidence! (1)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629605)

Follow the hierarchy properly next time, it does wonders for not looking like an idiot.

Why don't you click the "parent" link on my post and see what I was replying to? And then see who the idiot is.

Re:What a Quincidence! (1)

Justus (18814) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629801)

Why don't you click the "parent" link on my post and see what I was replying to? And then see who the idiot is.

The post you replied to [slashdot.org] was a reply to a -1, Flamebait comment [slashdot.org] that said Firefox was IE with a few more bells and whistles.

I don't blame you for this; Slashdot handles the threading of filtered comments rather poorly.

Re:What a Quincidence! (1)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629325)

Ack, sorry. I mis-parsed your post hierarchy and thought you were responding to the "MAXTHON IS IE" BIT. I didn't see the Firefox reply right below that.

Makes me glad I use Konqueror. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628173)

Nonsense like this makes me glad I use Konqueror. At least its developers are more interested in providing a high-quality web browser, rather than focusing more energy on marketing and business deals than they do on development. Not only that, but the Konqueror devs have produced a browser that's faster, lighter, and more standards-compliant than what the Mozilla crew has put together, all with far fewer resources and corporate support.

Re:Makes me glad I use Konqueror. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628411)

Fag

Re:Makes me glad I use Konqueror. (1)

c_forq (924234) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628499)

Isn't Konqueror based on Webkit? If so than I would say it has corporate support from Apple. IIRC Apple were the ones to get it to pass the Acid2 test.

Re:Makes me glad I use Konqueror. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628537)

You understand it backwards. Apple actually took KHTML, and morphed it into WebKit. Some of the improvements Apple made eventually did make their way back to the KHTML rendering engine, including the ACID2-related fixes. But WebKit itself is a derivative of KHTML.

Re:Makes me glad I use Konqueror. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628851)

Almost there.

WebKit is a fork of KHTML. Apple later released the source, but significantly delayed so now the Konqueror team had to pick between spending a lot of time reintegrating it with KHTML, or just leaving KHTML and going with WebKit. So WebKit's going to be the engine of choice in Konqueror for KDE4 (Ephiphany will be making the move as well for Gnome 2.22(?).).

The more you know, because knowledge is power...

Re:Makes me glad I use Konqueror. (1)

whatevah (1130459) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628579)

I love Konqueror. But to be honest if I want to make sure I can access all the features of a site I have to use firefox.

And to firefox defense, although it is bloated as hell... it is for a reason(I think)- it tries to understand all the misused
and badly written HTML that exists out there.
XHTML to the rescue???

Re:Makes me glad I use Konqueror. (1)

GarfBond (565331) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628595)

Really? Because about a year and half ago it looks like the Konq devs weren't getting too much done [slashdot.org] , and Apple was doing all the heavy lifting [slashdot.org] . Two years ago I could've flipped that statement around and said "I'm glad that Mozilla is handling most of its work in-house and doesn't have to worry about a forked version overtaking it in quality and stature."

Besides, it's a bit of a ridiculous statement to assume that a significant portion of the OSS devs on Mozilla are involved or expending significant developer resources working on what amounts to a marketing deal, no? There can be other people at work on this you know.

I know I shouldn't be biting back at the trolls (a Konqueror troll, no less!) but this one was too hard to resist! You'd think someone really interested in OSS browsers would be more concerned for the rise of either WebKit, Firefox/Gecko, or both, when we're talking about the top 2 browsers in China being IE and an IE-derivative.

Re:Makes me glad I use Konqueror. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628693)

Besides, it's a bit of a ridiculous statement to assume that a significant portion of the OSS devs on Mozilla are involved or expending significant developer resources working on what amounts to a marketing deal, no? There can be other people at work on this you know.

Every dollar Mozilla spends on marketing-related tasks is a dollar less spent on development.

Re: Marketing is important, unfortunately (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629107)

There are limits to Word-Of-Mouth.

In the Soda wars, about 75 years ago Moxie once nuked their marketing budget to pay for manufacturing costs, and eventually lost out to Coca-Cola.

We're having these discussions because only education/marketing can overturn things like a Chinese Banking IE Lock.

IE is the best (2, Interesting)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628177)

Maybe if they implemented support for top-down left-right layouts instead of trying to make deals with search engines, they might get somewhere.

As it stands, the Mozilla family of browsers does not support it, so why would anyone in China want to use it? Beyond that, why would you want to introduce your brand to that market before implementing that support? I can see it now:

"Firefox? Hmm, I saw that a year ago... that's that one that shows all the pages sideways, right? No thanks."

Real smart move.

Re:IE is the best (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628225)

Konqueror already has excellent support for the rendering of non-Latin text. This is in part due to the excellent support that KDE offers it. Unlike GNOME, which has only gotten to the point of offering right-to-left text (for languages such as Arabic and Urdu), Konqueror can render left-to-right, right-to-left, top-to-bottom, bottom-to-top and even diagonal text. So it is suitable for most Asiatic languages and scripts, and even some obscure ones from Africa that are typically written diagonally.

diagonal! (1)

brock bitumen (703998) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628271)

no way! i want to hear more, tell me about these diagonal languages plz

Re:diagonal! (2, Interesting)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628363)

When designing multilinugalizable websites, you need to be able to control the text flow. There have been WC3 standards for controlling layout flow since CSS2, but IE5+ is the only line of browsers that has proper support. You need right-left for most western languages, left-right for languages like Hebrew and Arabic. In the Asian cultures, you want the glyphs to flow from the top left corner down the left side of the page to the bottom, then start a new line to the right of the first line.

Re:diagonal! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628379)

Actually, most Western languages are written left-to-right. Hebrew and Arabic are right-to-left.

Re:diagonal! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628475)

You need right-left for most western languages, left-right for languages like Hebrew and Arabic.

Excuse me? Dude, here you are, writing English left to right. And what do you do? You claim it's written right to left. WRONG. Likewise, Hebrew and Arabic are written right to left, not left to right.

Re:diagonal! (0, Redundant)

clayne (1006589) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628859)

It's pretty obvious he just transposed them, ya' anonymous little shit pedant.

Re:diagonal! (1)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629355)

It's pretty obvious he just transposed them, ya' anonymous little shit pedant.
Yeah, anonymous shit pedant! You may only correct others if they make minor typos or grammatical errors. You may not ever, under any circumstance, correct misrepresentations of fact -- regardless of the cause. This is Slashdot. Go back to Britannica or wherever it is you truth Nazis hide.

Re:diagonal! (1)

clayne (1006589) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629441)

Seeing as it took less braintime to figure out what the person really meant compared to making a point of admonoishing them for something they obviously already know - yes it's a pointless pedantic reply on ALSP's part. But nice strawman justification, btw.

Re:diagonal! (2, Insightful)

Dak RIT (556128) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628799)

Most Western Languages are left-to-right. Languages such as Arabic and Hebrew are right-to-left.

Chinese can be written left-to-right, right-to-left, or top-to-bottom without any problem. Traditionally Chinese is written top-to-bottom with the columns starting at the right and going to the left, although Chinese is more and more being written left-to-right today on most web sites and in numerous popular magazines as well. You will also see left-to-right usually on things like billboards and television commercials, and almost every single television show will by default have Chinese sub-titles (even if the show is in Chinese) which will be written left-to-right, including KTV (Karaoke Television). Books still predominantly are top-to-bottom.

Re:IE is the best (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628231)

Maybe if they implemented support for top-down left-right layouts instead of trying to make deals with search engines, they might get somewhere.
Mozilla makes a lot of cash from deals with search engines [cough google] which they can later funnel into design change rojects. Which probably includes the layout problem too.

Re:IE is the best (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628329)

They've been making a lot of money from Google for a number of years now. Yet we've seen relatively few improvements to the browser itself. Even with tens of millions of dollars in the bank, they can't produce a web browser that doesn't leak memory left and right. Yet Opera, and the basically un-funded Konqueror, can both produce browsers that are quite a bit better than Firefox in most ways.

I used to have faith in the Mozilla project, but I've lost it over the past year or so. They just can't seem to get their act together, and put together a better browser. With all the money they have now, they should have enough money to rewrite the browser and rendering engine from scratch. That's basically the only way they'll ever deal with the 700 unclosed blocker bugs they had before the release of Firefox 3.0.

Re:IE is the best (1)

Nossie (753694) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628405)

if you didnt just read the FUD you'd also know that those 700 'bugs' include new feature requests and niggles, few to nil of them are terminal!

ver 3 of firefox should be much better, but agreed it has been going downhill since 1.5+

Re:IE is the best (1)

cheater512 (783349) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629373)

I wouldnt say going backwards. I'd say creeping forwards slowly.

Mind you I'm a Seamonkey user. :)

Re:IE is the best (3, Informative)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628571)

they can't produce a web browser that doesn't leak memory left and right. Yet Opera, and the basically un-funded Konqueror, can both produce browsers that are quite a bit better than Firefox in most ways.
most of the memory problems are a result of supporting extensions, Firefox 3 is by now significantly better in this regard at least in my own tests. in fact, Firefox 3 is adding a number of new features and fixing a lot of the memory problems in Firefox's previous builds.

With all the money they have now, they should have enough money to rewrite the browser and rendering engine from scratch. That's basically the only way they'll ever deal with the 700 unclosed blocker bugs they had before the release of Firefox 3.0.
you are incorrect on both counts. first, fixing memory holes/leaks doesn't require a rewrite of all the code from scratch. it probably could fix the holes in a very labor intensive way but it will also likely destroy compatibility with pretty much... everything... second, those 700 "bugs" you speak of are a lot of the time features that are desired in future versions, low level problems etc. at the start of the FF4 development there were something like 11,000+ of these in total.

Re:IE is the best (1)

jhol13 (1087781) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629267)

AARGH!

I am sick and tired about FireFox memory "issue". I have never had any problem. Not once. I never kill FF, it is on for weeks, and memory consumption is never any problem.

The problem with FF is that each tab is not a separate thread, quite often starting new tab will put FireFox to a halt for couple of seconds (2-5 or so). Changing that would make me much much happier than saving 100MB (or whatever) of memory.

Re:IE is the best (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629443)

indeed. RAM isn't the issue for me, I've got more than any of these programs could hope of ever using. The problem is that Firefox is sluggish but not because of a lack of RAM- it could use 10x as much and still wouldn't run out. Konqueror doesn't have ths problem, neither does Opera. a lot of the problem lies in the extensions. disabling them all speeds things up a little but renders Firefox a rather mediocre browser. Firefox 3 is a lot better at dealing with this although not all the extensions are functional to do a real test yet.

Re:IE is the best (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628269)

But... modern Standard Mandarin is written left-to-right. Why is top-to-bottom support so important, again?

Re:IE is the best (2, Informative)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628315)

But... modern Standard Mandarin is written left-to-right. Why is top-to-bottom support so important, again?

Perhaps because there are 700 million Chinese people who can't read Standard Mandarin? From Wikipedia:

In December 2004, the first survey of language use in the People's Republic of China revealed that only 53% of its population, about 700 million people, could communicate in Standard Mandarin. (China Daily) A survey by South China Morning Post released in September 2006 gave the same result.[citation needed] This 53% is defined as a passing grade above 3-B (ie. error rate lower than 40%) of Evaluation Exam. Another survey in 2003 by the China National Language And Character Working Committee () shows, if mastery of Standard Mandarin is defined as Grade 1-A (ie. error rate lower than 3%), the percentages as follows are: Beijing 90%, Shanghai 3%, Tianjin 25%, Guangzhou 0.5%, Dalian 10%, Xi'an 12%, Chengdu 1%, Nanjing 2%.

Then, of course, there are all those other Asian cultures that might like to be able to browse the web too. In case half of China wasn't good enough reason.

Re:IE is the best (4, Informative)

ChameleonDave (1041178) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628437)

You're both totally confusing the spoken language (standard Mandarin versus the dialects and regional languages) and the written language (modern standard characters versus traditional ones, and modern alignment versus traditional alignment).

Modern standard Chinese is written left to right from the top row downward (like English). Traditional Chinese is written top to bottom from the rightmost column leftward. Chinese people are all used to reading stuff aligned in either way, and they are both considered acceptable.

The situation is similar in Japanese.

Re:IE is the best (2, Informative)

cyfer2000 (548592) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628533)

But they read the same characters. Your data are about pronunciations.

Re:IE is the best (1)

kamapuaa (555446) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628895)

You obviously don't know anything at all about the Chinese language, Chinese writing, or Asian languages. You're just repeating stuff from Wikipedia that you don't understand. Why are you even posting? To get your post count up?

Re:IE is the best (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628995)

However, those people aren't reading web pages written top to bottom right to left either. The citation you quote is discussing the spoken language. Even if someone speaks any of those dialects in the quote they will still read the same way. That is the beauty of a character based system even if two people cannot speak to each other they can still write notes to each other.

Re:IE is the best (2, Interesting)

Myen (734499) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628313)

Does any actual sites with vertical Asian text exist? (BTW, it's top-down, right-to-left. Top-down left-right is weird.) Example, please!
Mozilla does lack ruby support, but that's usually used more for Japanese.

Re:IE is the best (1)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628385)

Sorry, my bad. I need another beer, I guess.

Re:IE is the best (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628637)

http://tiy85423.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!70996FBA0EB5F202!573.entry [live.com] If you know the content and context, you will feel very funny.

Re:IE is the best (2, Informative)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629259)

Does any actual sites with vertical Asian text exist? (BTW, it's top-down, right-to-left. Top-down left-right is weird.) Example, please!

http://tiy85423.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!70996FBA0EB5F202!573.entry [live.com] If you know the content and context, you will feel very funny.
Fascinating! Here are some screenshots...

Horizontal (in Firefox): http://tinypic.com/6johl3s.png [tinypic.com]
Vertical (in IE7): http://tinypic.com/6la934x.png [tinypic.com]

Interesting observations:

* Yep, seems like Firefox doesn't support top-down-right-left, but it successfully reflows the text into left-right-top-down. As others said, Chinese can be read both ways and so the paragraph remains readable.
* IE7 doesn't appear to properly rotate numbers (see the "64", "3" and "29" near the leftmost column in vertical orientation).
* The selection caret also rotates (becoming a horizontal I-beam) and you can select text top-down-right-left. Duh, you might say, but still cool to see it in practice nonetheless :)
* Support for other languages appears to finally "just work" with Vista -- all the characters just show up. This wasn't the case in XP, if I remember correctly.
* Vertical orientation looks odd juxtaposed with the content on the rest of the page (a Windows Live blog template), which uses a Western left-right-top-down orientation. I suppose this wouldn't be an issue if the entire page used one uniform orientation.

Re:IE is the best (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628481)

Umm, you do realise that in modern day China, Chinese is written left-right, top-bottom, the same as in English? They've been doing it this way for about 90 years or so ever since the vernacular movement back in the early 20th century.

Re:IE is the best (2, Interesting)

cyfer2000 (548592) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628685)

But Chinese people like to use such format to present ancient poems, titles and etc.

Re:IE is the best (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628517)

I am a Chinese and I was web developer. I have been using Mozilla from either M18 or M16, I am not sure if anyone still remember what's that. From my experience, non of the problems in your post exist or you've got the wrong explanation.

The hurdle of Firefox to intrude the huge market share of IE in China is the huge market share of IE. Because of the huge market share of IE, the developers in China tend to develop IE only web pages. Not only on the CSS and HTML, some of them use a lot of jscript, and IE only DOM stuff.

To win the people in China, Firefox can either display those IE only stuff correctly, or offer some other advantage that people will love to use. Both are negative for now, the developers won't add any IE compatibility for ethics (or emotional) reasons. And there isn't much advantage for Joel to learn how to use a new browser with a lot of pages can't be displayed correctly. One thing in the gray area is to develop an extension that can make Firefox read the IE only stuff.

Another factor is the MS propaganda machine in China. MS has published huge amount of documents regarding MS products, so developers' brains have been filled with MS stuff. To win the developers, Mozilla has to do something really smart.

The rising of Linux in China is a chance for Mozilla. And KHTML is some sort of "partner".

The last, but not the lest, I can't really see how this deal could improve the adoption of Firefox in China... It more likely will bring some financial independence to the Chinese Mozilla foundation, which is very good though.

Re:IE is the best (1)

GwaihirBW (1155487) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628581)

Interesting, and useful information - I wish I had some mod points. Mod Parent Up!

Re:IE is the best (1)

nairbv (596536) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629169)

I think the real change will have to start with YOU. Web developers in China should be writing code that conforms to web standards, and then there won't be "IE only code." Firefox in many cases isn't the one who is wrong.

If Firefox changes to support non-standard otherwise-IE-only code, it will further confuse the compatibility problems. If people like you write universally compatible code designed to follow web standards, then your code will run in IE, Firefox, Opera, etc, along with other web devices that are growing in popularity. If people like you are writing correct code, then users will be free to choose the best way to view those pages.

If you keep writing IE only code, what happens when you need your page to display properly on someone's cell phone or PDA? What if a blind person wants to view your page with a text reader? What if Firefox does catch on and you're site is one of the few incompatible ones? What if linux and/or mac takes off there? Are you going to re-write your page from scratch? As China grows, and fancier technology like cellphone-based internet becomes prevalent, and as your standard of living improves, there are numerous long-term consequences you could take care of now, ahead of time, by following standards. Following standards won't adversely affect the IE experience, isn't significantly more difficult than writing IE specific code, and will save you time and money in the long run.

I guess if you keep writing crappy code though, it will be easy to find a job fixing it later :-)

Re:IE is the best (1)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629303)

Following standards won't adversely affect the IE experience, isn't significantly more difficult than writing IE specific code, and will save you time and money in the long run.
But that's the thing. Last time I checked, IE still isn't fully standards-compliant. It's not like you can simply switch to standards-compliant code and have your page display correctly across all major browsers. Despite the hoopla and empty promises, the browsers today still have different interpretations of certain parts/versions of CSS, or support different subsets of it, leaving us stranded in the 90s. We're still stuck having to code and test for different browsers. And like it or not, IE's de facto standard is still more popular than the "actual" standard used by its competitors.

Re:IE is the best (1)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629289)

I am a Chinese and I was web developer.
[...]
The hurdle of Firefox to intrude the huge market share of IE in China is the huge market share of IE. Because of the huge market share of IE, the developers in China tend to develop IE only web pages. Not only on the CSS and HTML, some of them use a lot of jscript, and IE only DOM stuff.
[...]
Another factor is the MS propaganda machine in China. MS has published huge amount of documents regarding MS products, so developers' brains have been filled with MS stuff. To win the developers, Mozilla has to do something really smart.
So how is this any different from the situation in the US? These were the same issues Mozilla had to tackle when it first started here (and is still tackling, to a lesser degree), and it still managed to gain traction somehow. Sounds like the same war on a different battlefield... what sets the Chinese situation apart?

Re:IE is the best (1)

FooBarWidget (556006) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629935)

In China it's a lot worse than in the US. When was the last time you saw a US website that requires ActiveX?

Re:IE is the best (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21629087)

Modern Chinese computer users don't give a rat's ass about top-to-bottom-right-to-left text. In fact, presenting text in columns would be quite archaic and unnatural for everyday usage. The only time I ever run into vertical text is when reading a real-life newspaper-- and even then, most newspapers have moved to horizontal text.

I'm much more proficient in English than Chinese, but I'm fairly confident that most young Chinese readers in Hong Kong and mainland China would be a little surprised when faced with right-to-left horizontal writing in a modern setting (for example, on a casual website). A parallel for an English speaker is perhaps something like running across Shakespearan English on a webpage, or watching an old, classic American movie where everyone speaks with that curious mid-Atlantic accent [wikipedia.org] that's halfway between an American and British accent.

See the Wikipedia article on text orientation in east Asian writing [wikipedia.org] for more information.

Maxthon (1, Offtopic)

cuby (832037) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628217)

Curious... This is the first time I read something about this browser. The Portuguese version of wikipedia says http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxthon [wikipedia.org] this browser is often used to circumvent the great Chinese firewall, hence its popularity. Does anyone know why it is especially easy to do tuneling with it?

Re:Maxthon (1)

dmitri3 (1101095) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628365)

If that's true, Chinese government will probably block the download for Maxthon very soon. That will be one big bonus for Firefox since Mathon users will mostly move to Firefox. Then someone will probably write a nice addon that has the same advantages as Maxthon, if it doesn't exist yet... Firefox will be seen as "legal" by Chinese, but will always provide the same functionality if the user desires to install it.

Re:Maxthon (1)

Joshua W Ferguson (1165439) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628433)

I'm pretty sure the maxthon browser is made in China, their website [maxthon.com] lists some place in Beijing as their mailing address. Not to mention they have pretty pearls of subject-verb agreement hanging around.

If China wants to shut them down, they'll just knock on their front door probably. That or kick it in.

Re:Maxthon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628371)

Here's a link to the English wikipedia entry, for the 3 of us English-speakers (too lazy to type it in) in the audience:

Maxthon Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]

Re:Maxthon (1)

cuby (832037) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628407)

The English version says nothing about this feature, hence, the other link... You know, some people can speak several languages.

Maxthon, Trident (2, Interesting)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628235)

The WP article [wikipedia.org] on Maxthon says it uses Trident, the same layout engine as IE. I know nothing about the world of closed-source Windows development, but this seems odd to me. Does MS license the source to Trident, or does it just expose a binary API for it? Since MS wants IE to win the new browser wars, what's their motivation to make Trident available to developers who might create competing browsers such as Maxthon? Does the licensing deal for Trident mean that MS gets a slice of revenue out of Maxthon's donations? Since Maxthon has a 30% market share in China compared to Firefox's 15% in the West, I assume that means that Chinese users have some very strong reason to prefer Maxthon to IE -- even stronger than the obvious reasons to prefer Firefox over IE. What would those reasons be? Does Maxthon have better support for Chinese text?

Re:Maxthon, Trident (2, Informative)

Shados (741919) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628267)

Trident is exposed as a component in windows, and is used in a LOT more things than one could imagine... less so now than a few years ago, but still. It is incredibly frequently used as a RAD renderer in memory, for one, but can also be used as a component inside other applications.

Back when I was a newbie VB6 programmer (yeah yeah i know...) I made a tiny "browser" that way. It took all of 15 minutes. There's a lot of "shells" around Trident. They're obviously not as popular as they were pre-Firefox, but back then a lot of people used those alternative "browsers", back when all web sites were IE-only.

Re:Maxthon, Trident (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628381)

Maxthon is a browser that is basically a shell over Trident. It was developed in China so it's no surprise that it's pretty popular as it is customized to do things that IE's shell can't do.

Since MS wants IE to win the new browser wars, what's their motivation to make Trident available to developers who might create competing browsers such as Maxthon?
As far as I understand MS's motives, the more people that use their software or derivatives of their software that acclimate users to MS's products the better. From MS's view point it is a lot better for users to be using MS-based software even in the form of trident with a new shell than anyone else's software. Case in point, Maxthon partnered with Microsoft on at least one occasion working on the development of the Maxthon browser.

Re:Maxthon, Trident (1)

A Jew (1176261) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629163)

because of vendor lock-in. they want everyone to depend on windows, and for that it doesn't matter what shell people use over the rendering engine, as long as that rendering engine is closed source and windows only. they don't even have to be the ones to own and develop it, as long as it is incompatible enough with other browsers to force users to stick with windows.

Re:Maxthon, Trident (1)

FooBarWidget (556006) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629913)

I'm guessing that it's because:
1. IE sucks and Maxthon is better (tabbed browsing and popup blocking and all). Since Maxthon is based on the IE engine, people can still view all their websites (with Flash, ActiveX, etc).
2. Maxthon (previously known as MyIE2) has existed longer than Firefox. So when Firefox became popular, Chinese people are already used to Maxthon and don't want to switch.
3. Maxthon has supported Chinese localization for a long time, possibly longer than Firefox.

Your prosecution... (0, Troll)

heretic108 (454817) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628331)

"Your prosecution for viewing illegal Falun Gong literature was brought to you by 100% free open source software."

I bet that would give a warm fuzzy feeling deep inside.

What's next? A deal between the Apache Foundation and the US Government, whereby Apache webservers automatically send to the US Government the HTTP fields of any request which serves up a page containing strings such as 'Iraq', 'nuclear', 'jihad' etc?

Re:Your prosecution... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628599)

What's next? A deal between the Apache Foundation and the US Government, whereby Apache webservers automatically send to the US Government the HTTP fields of any request which serves up a page containing strings such as 'Iraq', 'nuclear', 'jihad' etc?


Next? You have to be kidding me, if you think they don't already have thousands of words that will get your IP adress Red Flagged for further review. The internet is open, there is little (if any) expectation of privacy.


~Ironically-Posting-AC

Re:Your prosecution... (0, Offtopic)

GwaihirBW (1155487) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628617)

Thanks to whoever counter-modded the 'Troll' on this one. While I do find high-ranking negative-descriptor posts amusing in general concept, "-1 Troll" != "I disagree with your political opinion", even when it's stated in a caustic manner. 'Cause this *is* on topic and relevant.

There will be a spyware in firefox soon.. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628393)

Flashget, a popular download managers made by chinese, was marked 100% clean. Now the program tries to call various servers around the world every 3 seconds. You can read it here:

http://bbs.flashget.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8723&p=31396 [flashget.com]

I do not want firefox to spy on me. Keep mozilla away from china.

Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628413)

This deal still won't have much of an effect on Firefox adoption in China. Why? It's simple, *all* banks in China only support IE (and IE based browsers like Maxthon) for online banking. They all have custom ActiveX controls for entering passwords and a whole bunch of other IE specific stuff. I live in China and know many people who start to use Firefox, and everything's great until they go to use online banking and find it doesn't work. Then they give up on Firefox, because it's not worth the hassle. Until this issue is addressed Firefox adoption will go nowhere.

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (1)

GwaihirBW (1155487) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628605)

Ouch. Also, this strikes me as being a hit against Linux too . . . double whammy, congrats M$, what can we do? 'Cause you can bet banks are interested in where the money is, and that ain't F/OSS companies. :-(

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628683)

It's worse than that; I use the Merchants' Bank and they need you to install Windows-only binaries on your system that don't work under Wine. It's annoying, but it won't go away until more people do something about it, so call up your bank and complain.

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628967)

Odd indeed. I've been using Firefox with my online banking accounts in Canada for years...from Japan! :-)

I'd say the Chinese are definitely behind the times, and I guess they don't mind being slaves of an American corporation. China, still beholden to American technology, locked in for eternity, while the rest of the world throws off the bonds of M$. Interesting.

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628999)

i too live in china and this frustrates me.. you're fucked if you use a mac!

does obscurity really create security?.. lets ask the big wigs at M$

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629381)

i too live in china and this frustrates me.. you're fucked if you use a mac!
You can run Windows on a Mac, so no, not entirely.

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (1)

SamP2 (1097897) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629669)

Yes, pay triple the hardware price for the same quality (or lack thereof) you'd get on a PC. Brilliant!

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 6 years ago | (#21630045)

Yes, pay triple the hardware price for the same quality (or lack thereof) you'd get on a PC. Brilliant!
Wasn't my choice to do that :)

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (1)

nahdude812 (88157) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629077)

And the reason that it's like this in China (and a few other far eastern countries I believe) is not because they're behind the times as much as they were ahead of the times. Before SSL was standard, these banks saw the need for secure communications. So they built their own controls and rolled them out so that they could have this; at the time there was really no other meaningful option if they wanted to do secure transactions on the web. Now they don't want to give up the control because they can basically make customized desktop banking applications with those ActiveX controls and have it do more and be more meaningful than is possible with a standard web page.

Of course my own knowledge on the subject is second hand, so I advise any readers to take this with a grain of salt!

Re:Mozilla needs to be making deals with the banks (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629371)

I believe the main reason was due to the fact that you couldn't export encryption algorithms to certain countries from the States for a period of time. Thus there was IE and Netscape versions that had no SSL support, then eventually it was supported at a low bit (like 32bit encryption) and later fully.

Fu manchu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628435)

Hey, males? Next summer, in honor of the Summer Olympics in China, let's all wear a Fu Manchu moustache.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu_Manchu_moustache [wikipedia.org]

Pass it on - start a trend.

Patent Implications (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21628589)

Could this be the start of a new patent paradigm? "On the internet ... in China!"

Cool (1)

Rogain (91755) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628831)

Maybe mozilla can write a plugin that can detect when a user is tibetan or pro-democracy, then inform the chinese government, collect sites visited, log input so their disloyalty trials can go as smoothly as their executions will. Great job Open Source Foundation!

Any word on rights protection? (3, Interesting)

DynaSoar (714234) | more than 6 years ago | (#21628849)

Is there by any chance anything that says Mozilla got included in the deal that the Chinese end will not use their technology for either censorship or persecution of those who disagree with the party line?

GPL (1)

ZombieRoboNinja (905329) | more than 6 years ago | (#21629959)

No, but if they do use the technology for censorship or persecution, they damn well better make their source code changes available!

Maxhon is just an IE shell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21629173)

Since I've never in my life heard of Maxhon before I decided to do some digging and all Maxhon amounts to is a shell that calls IE.

Re:Maxhon is just an IE shell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21629831)

I knew this but agree it should've been in the summary.
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