Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Your Worst IT Workshop?

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the horror-stories-from-the-front dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 497

suntory writes "I am a lecturer at a Spanish university. This week had to attend a workshop on 'Advanced HTML and CSS' for the university staff. Some of the ideas that the presenter (a fellow lecturer) shared with us: IE is the only browser that follows standards; frames and tables are the best way to organize your website; you can view the source for most CSS, Javascript and HTML files, so you can freely copy and paste what you feel like — the Internet is free you know; same applies for images, if you can see them in Google Images Search, then you can use them for your projects. Of course, the workshop turned out to be a complete disaster and a waste of time. So I was wondering what other similar experiences you have had, and what was your worst IT workshop?"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

First POST! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755528)

Praise Kahless!

This story ... (-1, Troll)

guysmilee (720583) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755548)

This story is about as useful as that course sounds!

Wow! (4, Funny)

dada21 (163177) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755558)

I submitted this post in 1997 when I used the slashdot id suntory. I can't believe the admins are THIS slow. It still was a bad conference then.

Re:Wow! (5, Funny)

Pharmboy (216950) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755592)

At least it isn't a dupe.

Yet.

Re:Wow! (2, Funny)

Chris_Mir (679740) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756298)

It will be in 2017.

Re:Wow! (1)

fprintf (82740) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755652)

It looks like for commenting, at least, that the last time that UID was used was in 2004. Nice way for them to get that through the pipeline!

Re:Wow! (2, Funny)

indros13 (531405) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755706)

This has to be a Slashdot first: pride in having a higher userid.

dada21 (163177)

suntory (660419)

Re:Wow! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755784)

except Google [wikipedia.org] wasn't around in 1997....

nice troll

Re:Wow! (1)

g1zmo (315166) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755804)

I doubt it. I registered sometime around 1999-2000, so there's no way that you got ID# 660419 by 1997.

Re:Wow! (2, Funny)

dada21 (163177) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756116)

Thanks for making me feel like I've wasted 1/3rd of my years reading slashdot.

Sad, but I do remember when I finally registered here (after months of lurking, I'd say), I felt like my UID was _really_ late compared to a lot of the 4-digits that were posting.

Wonder where they all went. Can't be jobs (have always had one). Can't be wives (been with the same gal for 12 years off and on). Can't be families (watch my mentally retarded BiL 4 days a week). Can't be sports (geeks don't play them). WoW maybe?

Re:Wow! (4, Funny)

johnw (3725) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756528)

Sad, but I do remember when I finally registered here (after months of lurking, I'd say), I felt like my UID was _really_ late compared to a lot of the 4-digits that were posting.

Wonder where they all went.
If you get here really early in the morning and keep very, very quiet then you may just spot one.

HTH
John

Re:Wow! (2, Funny)

alta (1263) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756592)

I'm here, my ID is pretty low. Since I got it, I got married, changed jobs twice, had two kids and opps, voted for Bush twice. This time I'm voting for Thompson, if he makes it that far.

gag order (1)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756136)

The Spanish university all these years was preparing the perfect frivolous lawsuit for libel and Slashdot was under a gag order.

Re:Wow! (1)

fliptout (9217) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756418)

Hmm, yeah. Good one. I remember Slashdot started using userids sometime around 99.

Re:Wow! (1)

valentyn (248783) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756576)

Back in 1997 frames and tables were indeed the best way to organize your website for watching it with IE 3.0 or something. The admins aren't slow, they just wait for the right time to publish.

Re:Wow! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21756578)

Wow, I knew Google was *evil*, but to make Image Search available to universities five years before releasing it to the public? That's downright devilish.

Ignore me please (-1, Offtopic)

Spinlock_1977 (777598) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755562)

First post? Someone had to do it.

My personal worst (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755572)

I took the How to be the Web's Best Editor workshop offered by Slashdot. What a disaster.

I submitted an article on it a few months ago. They posted it to the front page 3 or 4 times. Just search for keywords: bestt editer

Re:My personal worst (5, Funny)

myrdos2 (989497) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756336)

I was taking a University course on C++ and data structures. Big class, maybe 150 people in a theatre-like room. At the front of the room was a PC, connected to a projector so we could see screen. This was a Solaris system. The prof had emailed the lecture slides to himself.

So to get the slides, he opens a terminal, and types pine. A big list of all his email fills the screen. He starts looking for his lecture notes... at which point some guy noticed one of his emails had the subject "Enormous Pussy". The prof stammered and said it wasn't what it sounded like, that's just a big cat one of his friends has, and his friend likes to send email with provocative subjects.

At which point someone else saw an email called "Giant Beaver", destroying the prof's credibility.

The lecture itself was great.

Securing Voice over Internet Protocol (3, Interesting)

Lookin4Trouble (1112649) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755602)

Getting there was half the fun. Boston. January. 44 inches of snow.

Then once I got there it was a week of "If you encrypt your traffic," (thusly losing the ability to QoS that traffic), "you only need to firewall your management boxes and vlan off all of your VoIP endpoints!" Cue the rest of the class firewalling off their management boxes from everyone else (including themselves) *sigh*

Re:Securing Voice over Internet Protocol (2, Interesting)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755654)

Actually that was the BEST presentation I went to! Oh, you weren't talking about Mike Lynn's "Voice Over IP" presentation at Blackhat a few years ago :-)

Re:Securing Voice over Internet Protocol (3, Interesting)

Cally (10873) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756050)

I was a Perl programmer (a proper one, not a CGI.pm monkey.) We got a new CTO. He liked Java. He sent us all on Java courses which, the instructor told us, were a waste of time as (a) we were all expected to be up to speed with the basics, which few of us were, and (b) because he'd been told to cover two weeks' worth of material in two days. I quit after lunch on the first day.

Vendor Name? (4, Insightful)

securityfolk (906041) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755614)

If you can, could you provide the name of the vendor who gave that course? I would like to avoid them at all costs :)

Re:Vendor Name? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755650)

Microsoft?

Re:Vendor Name? (3, Informative)

Lookin4Trouble (1112649) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755714)

American Society of Professional Education. I refuse to link to them through the intellitxt ads here, so I'm not going to put up the acronym.

Re:Vendor Name? (3, Informative)

Intron (870560) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755730)

Not sure, but I think I bought this guy's book. The "for Dummies" book on CSS gives the same bad advice. I'll never buy a Dummies book again.

Re:Vendor Name? (2, Funny)

Daniel_Staal (609844) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756178)

At least the name is truth in advertising.

Re:Vendor Name? (2, Funny)

e9th (652576) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756582)

No, that would be "by Dummies."

Re:Vendor Name? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755840)

If it happened in 1997, chances are very good they no longer exist. Problem solved. No cost.

Wow, just wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755622)

He is absolutely right, tables are the future and IFrames contain the future. Did this guy work for Microsoft?, lol

I was a co-facilitator at one... (4, Interesting)

sherpajohn (113531) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755660)

with another member of the IT staff from the college I worked at, back in the early PC days. Think it was the fall of 89. It was a half day thing on a Saturday for PC maintenance. In those days power supply to the motherboard was tricky, my co-host found out the hard way when she hooked one up backwards and it kinda went boom when she powered it up.

That was not quite as spectacular as the time a prof at the college hooked up two PC's via serial cables, one of them being on an AV cart (and plugged into it) - seems the cart was wired wrong, when he fired those up there was an small explosion, a fair bit of smoke and some actual pieces of the serial card from one of the pc's strewn about the case.

Ah, the good old days - I worked on Tandy machines that had fully exposed power supplies, took one apart once (the PC not the power supply!) and wondered what the whirring sound was, thing was still running ;)

Oh that I could go back to the day of swapping floppy disks to run stuff.

Re:I was a co-facilitator at one... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755966)

In those days power supply to the motherboard was tricky, my co-host found out the hard way

Back in the day, and this was back in South Africa's Apartheid era, the correct hookup was best remembered as The South Africa Rule: "You keep all the blacks together". (Gotta love a memory trick which mocks racism issues in another country.)

Re:I was a co-facilitator at one... (0, Redundant)

The Angry Mick (632931) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756052)

Oh that I could go back to the day of swapping floppy disks to run stuff.

/twitches uncontrollably

Re:I was a co-facilitator at one... (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756212)

In those days power supply to the motherboard was tricky, my co-host found out the hard way when she hooked one up backwards and it kinda went boom when she powered it up.
Heheh. Yup! I've seen this happen firsthand. Smoke everywhere. Very amusing. Gotta put the black wires together.

Hooking up hard drives backwards used to cause similar problems, too, though not nearly as spectacular. I still have the melted cable to prove it.

Blah... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755668)

I took an HTML class online where the "textbook" was of questionable quality. My instructor had posted much better examples on his website. Since I already had experience with HTML, I was able to ignore the class until the very end of the semester. It took six hours to complete all the assignments that I emailed 15 minutes before the deadline. Got a solid "A" even though the textbook was solid "F".

My hero! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21756016)

"I had a bad text book. Here's how quickly I finished a class that was below me and got a good grade."

Re:My hero! (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756312)

Whatever! If I didn't need that class to get into another class, I wouldn't have taken it. I was very happy that it took only six hours out of my entire semester as I was quite busy. :P

Re:Blah... (2, Informative)

speculatrix (678524) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756062)

many university lecturers get sent free books and gifts by publishers, the publishers hope that the lecturer will use it as the basis of their course, in theory if the lecturer has good ethics s/he will choose the best book for the job. However, they might curry favour with a particular publisher to get their own book into print, or might use a book written by a friend as a favour.

When I was at university (too many years ago) some lecturers pushed very hard to get you to buy their book, making it clear that the notes from their lectures would be insufficient - those lecturers were usually a bit crap, coasting through the lessons and so meaning you just didn't have sufficient material to get through their exams - i.e they were able to avoid the hard work of preparing good lessons. Most lecturers were quite good, the books were supplemental, but if you took good notes and borrowed a book from the library you'd have fairly comprehensive coverage.

Re:Blah... (1)

i.r.id10t (595143) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756132)

Strange, as an adjunct and the only instructor for the class (intro to linux) I decided the book sucked (FC2 specific...), hit the Orieley website, picked a couple of books, and had free desk copies in a few days, and a order form for our bookstore filled out shortly thereafter....

Re:Blah... (5, Interesting)

cp.tar (871488) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756108)

I'm attending a course on web design in my college this semester.

The TA that's giving the lectures:

  1. allegedly copied those lectures from the lectures given by our academic research network (I was told that by a fellow student who took the course given by said network)
  2. once actually explained we could use <div> tags as line breaks
  3. teaches all kinds of utterly wrong stuff, including advising us to encode our work in Windows-1250 instead of UTF.

However, two years ago I took a course given by a guy who told a friend of mine "Stop surfing the internet! Or else you won't know how to use Internet Explorer!" (yeah, it loses a bit in translation).
He could spend two hours explaining how to navigate to a bloody webpage from IE 6. And then how to add a crappy link to whatever IE calls bookmarks.
And when I said "could", I mean "did".
Repeatedly.

By the FSM's noodly appendage, I wish I was making this crap up.

Re:Blah... (1)

alienw (585907) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756596)

Jesus, where do you guys go? ITT Tech? If so, what do you expect? I have a hard time believing that any real university would offer an actual class in web design (except maybe as part of a graphics design program or something). Sounds like a really bad vo-tech college, though.

Let's go the other way (4, Insightful)

PHAEDRU5 (213667) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755672)

Since the difference between intelligence and stupidity is that there's a limit on intelligence, let's try naming the *best* conferences we've been to.

I've been to OOPSLA a couple of times. Very enjoyable and informative. More recently, I just attended a "No Fluff, Just Stuff" conferences in Atlanta. Lots of good information, especially on Groovy and Grails.

It was an AskSlashdot (4, Funny)

SleptThroughClass (1127287) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755674)

It was an AskSlashdot session which was full of the worst possible examples.

Not the worst for *me*... (5, Funny)

Otter (3800) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755678)

We were getting trained on some desktop sharing / presentation software. The instructor was getting increasingly frustrated with one woman who couldn't seem to manage even the most basic steps. ("Click on the icon. No, the picture thing! Click with your mouse -- no!) Finally she gave that woman control of her own computer...

**Whoosh**! The woman instantly tears into the instructor's hard drive like in one of those hacker movies and starts moving and deleting files! The instructor dived for her own laptop and yanked the Ethernet cable. I'm still not all sure what really happened there.

Re:Not the worst for *me*... (-1, Flamebait)

ArieKremen (733795) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756142)

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach" - old adage that my PhD advisor used to repeat all the time ;)

Re:Not the worst for *me*... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21756390)

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach" - old adage that my PhD advisor used to repeat all the time ;)
That adage is complete crap. Effectively passing knowledge on to students in a way that results in them actually learning something is nontrivial.

Re:Not the worst for *me*... (0, Redundant)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756456)

That adage is complete crap. Effectively passing knowledge on to students in a way that results in them actually learning something is nontrivial.
No one ever said they were any good at teaching. I've had plenty of crap teachers, it's just that often times the barrier to entry for a teaching position is less than that of a position in the workforce. Aside from occasional audits (still don't know how the crap teachers pass those), they don't actually have much oversight, but in the workforce they're expected to have working deliverables and poor performance will get noticed at some point.

Re:Not the worst for *me*... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21756442)

The passive aggressive approach until the instructor slip up and then BAM! Too cool. I hate being forced to attend cheesy seminars where some dimwit proceeds to "teach" something that's so fucking obvious it doesn't even require learning.

IDIOT (2, Interesting)

jrothwell97 (968062) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755682)

Some of the ideas that the presenter (a fellow lecturer) shared with us: IE is the only browser that follows standards; frames and tables are the best way to organize your website; you can view the source for most CSS, Javascript and HTML files, so you can freely copy and paste what you feel like -- the Internet is free you know; same applies for images, if you can see them in Google Images Search, then you can use them for your projects

This sort of ignorance is something I'd expect from an eleven year-old - or, dare I say it, a MySpace user! How on Earth can this person be allowed to teach at a university if they are teaching this as 'advanced' HTML?

Re:IDIOT (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755842)

MySpace user, hell. Try looking at the shit the "professional web designers" at MySpace call HTML sometime.

Re:IDIOT (5, Funny)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756010)

I once had an instructor at an introductory level programming class (which I was required to take and they refused to let me test out of) try to insist that in C and C++ the int in the line:
int main()
stands for initialize. No amount of arguing with the instructor could convince him that it was declaring the return type of the main function as an integer. As it happens the instructor was also head of the computer science department. I spent the rest of that semester teaching the entire class after the instructor left because I felt bad for them. They all agreed I did a much better job than the instructor. I would have gotten a job as a teacher there, but they couldn't afford my rate.

Re:IDIOT (2, Funny)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756586)

once had an instructor at an introductory level programming class (which I was required to take and they refused to let me test out of) try to insist that in C and C++ the int in the line: int main() stands for initialize.
My daughter took a course on C++ at the local community college. The last assignment required building a program that would run as a cgi on a Linux-based webserver. Prior to this point, everything had been Windows based. The instructor claimed in his notes on the assignment that the C++ code when intended to be compiled and run under Linux should start with:

//#!/usr/bin/gcc

Or some such similar nonsense.

The author has it good (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755694)

At our college we used to be able to do our own departmental web pages. Then someone decided that the college's web pages had to have a standard look and feel. Unfortunately, the schools html monkeys don't know how to produce a standards compliant web page. Half the site breaks if you view it with Firefox. It also isn't accessible to the handicapped (I thought that was against the law).

Our department's page used to be the first hit when you googled for that which it teaches. Now it is nowhere.

Not only do they not give us html/css courses, they don't want us to use html or css. So, if they're giving you courses, you are better off than us.
I would welcome a bad html course.

I Don't Get IT Workshops, You Insensitive Clod! (4, Funny)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755704)

However I DID have an IT guy tell me with a straight face that windows out of the box is more secure than any given Linux install out of the box. He backed down pretty quick when I suggested that we install both OSes on a machine connected to the open Internet, though...

Re:I Don't Get IT Workshops, You Insensitive Clod! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755926)

They would have both been pwned. Windows faster, but both within a day or a week. Possibly either within minutes, it's a crapshoot.

MOST of the pwned /servers/ out there are running linux. The "Linux is secure by design" mantra does more to hurt Linux users than help them.

Re:I Don't Get IT Workshops, You Insensitive Clod! (2, Informative)

apparently (756613) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756184)

However I DID have an IT guy tell me with a straight face that windows out of the box is more secure than any given Linux install out of the box. He backed down pretty quick when I suggested that we install both OSes on a machine connected to the open Internet, though...

What year was this? A few years ago, some linux distros had some pretty dumb default ports open. Likewise, Microsoft at least showed some sense in enabling the XP SP2 'firewall' by default. Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but a few years ago, an "out of the box" linux install was arguably just as bad as windows.

Re:I Don't Get IT Workshops, You Insensitive Clod! (1)

jombeewoof (1107009) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756252)

Windows out of the box usually (in my experience anyway) doesn't have network drivers.
That would make it a bit more secure than a linux box that did have those drivers.

The blind leading the blind... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755734)

There's perhaps five or six thousand people worldwide who are knowledgeable enough to produce a fully standards compliant, accessible website. Not all them work in web development and fewer still teach.

It's pretty much the same for any discipline, the majority are buskers with barely enough competence to scrape by.

Chin up, film at eleven!

the worst things to worship (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755740)

that's what many of us have (unwittingly or not) chosen/attached to.

in the end, the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in.

for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it?

we're intending for the nazis to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather'.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying [google.com]

meanwhile, the life0cidal philistines continues on their path of death, debt, & disruption for most of US;

gov. bush denies health care for the little ones

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/bush.veto/index.html [cnn.com]

whilst demanding/extorting billions to paint more targets on the bigger kids

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/bush.war.funding/index.html [cnn.com]

all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven

whilst (yOUR elected) president al gore (deciding not to wait for the much anticipated 'lonesome al answers yOUR questions' interview here on /.) continues to attempt to shed some light on yOUR foibles;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3046116.ece [timesonline.co.uk]

still making his views known worldwide, whilst many of US keep yOUR heads firmly lodged in the silicon sand hoping (against overwhelming information to the contrary) that the party LIEn scriptdead pr ?firm? fairytail hypenosys scenario will never end.

for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available after the big flash occurs.

'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

Re:the worst things to worship (1)

lysdexia (897) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756288)

Mark? Mark V. Chaney?

Re:the worst things to worship (1)

neo420 (1106957) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756302)

lol...........LOL does this make sense to anyone? Maybe in another place, but here?

HTML, CSS and Websites (4, Insightful)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755758)

While HTML and CSS are important to know still, I can't help but wonder how many people actually still build websites with HTML and CSS and Java and such? I stopped using plain HTML at least four years ago, when I discovered Content Management Systems (WebGUI back then, now using Joomla). I've built or helped build dozens of sites, all part time, using CMS, and most of my clients couldn't be happier. They have access to add content all day long, and don't have to worry about "design".

If I went to a Web seminar like the one described in the story, and it didn't mention building sites on top of a CMS, I'd question the presenter and the company that paid for me to go. There is no reason that your average person needs to know HTML or CSS, as those should be handed over to DESIGNERS, people skilled with making things look good. If you want to see what it looks like when everyday people do design just go over to MySpace (akkkk).

Just my $.02 (actual value subject to market forces)

Re:HTML, CSS and Websites (0)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755934)

Web design should have been turned over to DESIGNERS from day one...

Re:HTML, CSS and Websites (4, Insightful)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756000)

Your post really only applies to static html, which is not what most seminars are geared towards. If you're doing anything dynamic with a page, then doing the HTML and CSS by hand is almost always the best option. Using any WYSIWYG editor is going to give you shitty html that's nearly impossible to edit after the fact, and very few are able to work around code. I've had php CMSs that stripped out all the php and javascript in the files when it saved them, so customers or dumbass designers would use the CMS to change the design on a dynamic page and suddenly it's not dynamic anymore.

Re:HTML, CSS and Websites (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756198)

CMS by nature is Dynamic. Perhaps not as Dynamic as you want, but it is dynamic; changing to suit each user. And most CMS' have the ability to add code snippets as needed, provided you know how, and have the right CMS. Not all CMS' are created equal. Some are better than others at various things. And most CMS' are extensible, meaning you can add code to the back end to accomplish that which you want/need. I doubt you know much about CMS' or else you'd know this.

That being said, I agree with most WYSIWYG (key, "most") editors. Some are very good at creating the basic framework you need to tweak by hand. I suggest to you that you probably aren't using the proper tools for the job if you're having issues with poorly structured HTML from your WYSIWYG application. The ones I use actually will check the validity of the HTML and CSS being used against various standards, and even browser idiosyncrasies.

 

Re:HTML, CSS and Websites (1)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756098)

HTML or CSS, as those should be handed over to DESIGNERS

Me thinks (X)HTML and CSS should be handed to engineers who work together with a designer (assuming that designer means graphic designer or artist).

Re:HTML, CSS and Websites (2, Insightful)

cbart387 (1192883) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756260)

Agreed.
Designer creates the look of the website.
Developer makes the site.
CMS is only for editing the content section of an end user, only so the IT staff doesn't waste time doing content update.

It's fairly infrequent that someone excels in both Designing and Developing a site (from my little experience at least).

Re:HTML, CSS and Websites (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21756498)

If I went to a Web seminar like the one described in the story, and it didn't mention building sites on top of a CMS, I'd question the presenter and the company that paid for me to go. There is no reason that your average person needs to know HTML or CSS, as those should be handed over to DESIGNERS, people skilled with making things look good. If you want to see what it looks like when everyday people do design just go over to MySpace (akkkk).

  1. that's not really true anymore. There are plenty of HTML editors that produce great
  2. looking code and you can preview using WYSINWYG viewers
    • so HTML really isn't out of reach

      for most users anymore. YMMV.

InterOp (3, Funny)

dave562 (969951) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755770)

While not exactly a workshop per se, it was the biggest waste of time. My employer basically paid for me to have people try to sell me stuff. Aren't the sales people supposed to be paying me for my time in the form of free lunches, dinners, blow and strippers?

Re:InterOp (1)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756466)

The problem is that a few word were inadvertently omitted due to a bad cell connection.

What they said:

The sales managers should give them blow, feed them lunch, help them with their jobs, and give them dinner and a strip tease.

What they heard:

The sales managers should give them blow... jobs... and a strip tease.

I think you can understand why the sales force was reluctant to comply, thankfully....

Re:InterOp (5, Funny)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756510)

Aren't the sales people supposed to be paying me for my time in the form of free lunches, dinners, blow and strippers?

Here in aerospace, we're not allowed to accept even a freaking mouse pad from a parts supplier.

Which is probably best, because I'd totally be whoring myself out for meals and gadgets and, if the salesperson was a cute woman, whatever I thought I could get before getting slapped.

"Yeah, sell me some FPGAs, bitch. Yeah, you like it when I talk like that, don't you? Tell me those gate counts again, you dirty, dirty girl."

I know. I need help. :(

Re:InterOp (4, Funny)

dave562 (969951) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756554)

I know. I need help. :(

Sounds to me like you just need $1000 and 24 hours in Vegas. ;)

maybe no tworst but... (2, Interesting)

TheCarp (96830) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755780)

I did attend a USENIX tutorial that was bad. Well maybe not bad in the grand scheme of things, and I liked the presenter, it sucks to have to slam him for this... however...

It was, if I rememeber right, "Advanced perl CGI scripting", or the moral equivalent thereof. The point was... CGI, PERL, and Advanced.

It began with a 3 minute speech about how thats what the tutorial used to be, but people kept signing up who barely, if at all, understood perl, and didn't know jack about CGI... so the tutorial had been severely dumbed down.

After the morning session it became clear that I was going to learn nothing, and so I took the afternoon to find some better way to waste my time, since my employer wasn't getting any value out of sending me to that tutorial in any case, may as well get some value out of the time.

Again, was too bad, it looked like it could have been cool, and the presenter certainly knew his stuff and could have given a better course. Its just well... lets just say, it looked like I was among the minority who left.

-Steve

Re:maybe no tworst but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21756406)

Kirk McKusick of BSD fame came to our building to give a 5-day class
on BSD Internals and it was amazing. We had a range of experience from
almost newbies to experienced hackers, which is normally a disaster,
but everyone I talked to was very happy with the class. I'm not sure
how he did it, but it was the most impressive IT teaching performance
I've ever seen.

The worst????? (1)

WwWonka (545303) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755794)

The worst IT workshop I have ever attended?

Lecturer walks in to the room and goes "Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh....IT flew out the Windows".

Haven't been to many, but (4, Insightful)

Lightborn (7556) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755808)


back in the Tivoli days I got sent to a 2-day class on how to use it. It was about totally worthless.

I found out the next week that the class had cost $750, and I actually went into the CEO's office and suggested to him that next time they want me to know something, they pay me the $750 and I'd purchase and read the appropriate book. He wasn't especially amused.

sometimes training is not done for the training (4, Insightful)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756042)

pay me the $750 and I'd purchase and read the appropriate book

You are of course correct, but if you speak with some business people you will be surprised why some businesses (and even individuals) take courses and enroll their staff to workshops and training sessions. Sometimes training is done not in order to actually learn something, but only because of various external requirements (eg legal, or requirements imposed or recommended by professional bodies), obscure accounting motives, publicity or advertising reasons ("we spent a million in staff training last year!"), hierarchical or careerist reasons ("manager: I will enroll my staff in extensive training so that my boss can't use their lack of skills as an excuse to fire me for hiring incompetent employees" or even "I, as the training manager, must make everyone attend training sessions because it's good for making me more important within the company"), or sometimes even irrational psychological reasons ("if we lose, it won't be because we didn't try hard but because out training was useless, so it's the trainer's problem not ours"). Yea I know all this is completely anti-productive and irrational, but I have actually seen all this being done in dysfunctional companies (sometimes even required by external agencies or bodies).

Re:sometimes training is not done for the training (1)

Dynedain (141758) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756340)

Or of course because you need someone to learn a certain skillset and you don't have anyone in house (or who has the time) to teach them that skillset.

Is this what it has come to? (-1, Offtopic)

Rumagent (86695) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755824)

What happened to "News for nerds"? "Stuff that matters"?

Is this news? Does it matter? This has got to be the crappiest submission ever.

Typical Spaniard (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755844)

Those ridiculous spics spend most of their time beating off to some soccer match. The ones living in the south masturbate while watching a bull being killed with a sword. The rest of the time they are sleeping with a Mexican hat on.

Glass, fuck Spain in the ass.

the fool - or the fool that follows him? (5, Interesting)

lawman508 (969924) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755880)

I've GIVEN some great, and somewhat bad talks in my day - every good speaker will tell you the same thing.
Most of the bad talks were situations where I was asked to sub for someone - or an area where I "WANTED" to be an expert - but really wasn't.
Many times, after a talk, I find that something I said was just plain wrong - it happens - to everyone - even the best speakers out there.
They key is, as an attendee, to not sit around and waste time listening to a bad speaker. I just quietly walk out, picking up an evaluation form in the process, and making sure the instructor gets my feedback.
As an occasional bad speaker - the best thing an audience member can do for me is to let me know if I have gotten it wrong! In the end, the only way tp turn a bad speaker into a good one - is through feedback - even if it is "YOU SUCK!"

Re:the fool - or the fool that follows him? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21755976)

So what qualifies you to talk about stuff you know fuck-all about? I never heard of a janitor or a whore giving lectures on quantum mechanics. Why does anyone tolerate this stupidity?

obligatory time cube slashpost (1)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756284)

I never heard of a janitor or a whore giving lectures on quantum mechanics

It's because quantum mechanics is so passe... they better use their time by lecturing on time cubes.

Re:the fool - or the fool that follows him? (2, Informative)

postbigbang (761081) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756140)

I love the feedback scores. I try to achieve the best marks and usually hit the nail on the head.

Then I went on a seminar series that had vendor sponsors. I got all top evaluation marks-- hundreds-- and only a rare 'good' instead of excellent.

I was replaced on the next seminar tour by a vendor sycophant-- because the vendors had complained. His marks? Not so good. Did they replace him? Of course not. Sponsors fill the gas tanks.

Fistfight (2, Funny)

boristdog (133725) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755948)

I once attended a Windows 3.1 seminar back in 1994 where some jackass kept complaining that I sat in HIS chair (out of 300 identical folding chairs) after the lunch break.

He was about a foot taller and at least 30 lbs heavier than me. I finally told him to shut the hell up or we could go outside and I would kick his butt. He shut the hell up and apologized later.

That's about all I remember from that seminar.

Re:Fistfight (4, Funny)

flaming error (1041742) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756276)

That was you? Let me apologize again.

I had just returned from my Peace Corps stint in Ghana, and I was suffering from highly virulent dysentery. During lunch I discovered my containment garments had a rip in the seat.

  > I finally told him to shut the hell up or we could go outside and I would kick his butt
As soon as I saw you had symptoms, I decided it was too late to try and convince you.

But you really should seek professional help. Sounds like you haven't gotten over it yet.

Not my worst, but one of my best... (5, Funny)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755952)

In University, in a web design class. The teacher was demonstrating coding a page. As he was entring links into URLs, I start spelling "P-L-A-Y-B-O-Y-.-C-O-M", which the teacher dutifully typed. When he realized what he wrote, he backspaced over "BOY" and typed "GIRL", then went on with his demonstration.

5 minutes later, by accident, he clicks on the link, triggering a cascade of pop-ups with naked men in front of the class, which was laughing it's lungs out...

Perl class (5, Funny)

HW_Hack (1031622) | more than 6 years ago | (#21755968)

This was a class offered internally by Intel --

So this total propeller head who's teaching the class says "Perl is the easiest language to learn - very natural and logical syntax" ...... I lasted until the morning break - then went back ot my office to get some work done .....

HP (5, Funny)

Jethro (14165) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756158)

I was at a conference one time where an HP guy gave a lecture, and during the Q&A people asked why HP hasn't moved to 64 bit yet, like DEC had, etc.

Guy got really mad and started pretty much yelling at people, saying that 64 bit has twice as many bits and is therefore half as fast as 32 bit computing.

People didn't even bother laughing at him. Everyone just looked at him like he was an idiot.

Re:HP (2, Funny)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756188)

Everyone just looked at him like he was an idiot.

like?

Re:HP (3, Funny)

Jethro (14165) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756272)

I seem to have misspelled "because". Oops!

Wasn't his fault (1)

smchris (464899) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756166)

About 1/2 an hour into one of those "Know your NT server" 1-day seminars in '98, the out-of-town presenter said, "I really think I have appendicitis and have to go to an emergency room -- right now!"

On the other hand, he was one of the most honest presenters I've ever seen. Took the time to point out the manual page with URL references and said, "You can always get answers to your questions on the web."

4Sight Technologies (1)

curmudgeon99 (1040054) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756196)

Oh, hell. I worked for this lisping idiot from Venuzuela. What a nightmare. By the time I got there he had alienated so many people that I was the only remaining engineer. I lasted six months. To date, that remains my shortest and worst gig. We had a few customers and this jackass would always make me lie to the customers and say that we were 100% on their problem when we were not because we were working on other problems. Just a nightmare. Because of that experience, I have avoided like the plague any shop that even hints of using Swing.

fantastic (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21756200)

another article where people can't keep on topic but instead proclaim how much smarter they are than others.

and that's not to say it isn't true but can we please stop the self-back-patting and keep on topic?

it's getting old hearing how smart most slashdotters think they are.

SOA (3, Interesting)

makellan (550215) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756226)

I felt bad for the presenter of a two day course on SOA. No one told him that our business model revolves around building totally custom solutions that are rarely, if ever, allowed to talk to the open 'net. I finally explained this to him and he looked crestfallen. He asked the class (of engineers) and everyone agreed that we couldn't use any of it. A waste of time for all involved, costing many thousands of dollars.

Re:SOA (1)

curmudgeon99 (1040054) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756256)

SOA is a perfectly valid solution for use within a confined web app. There is no requirement for it to use the web.

Question for the submitter (3, Insightful)

apparently (756613) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756234)

Did you do the attendees a favor and correct the lecturer, or did you just let the misinformation run wild?

PLC class (4, Funny)

hjf (703092) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756430)

I went to this PLC (Programmable Logic Controller, that's industrial control for you computer geeks). It started OK, with some drone showing off Schneider Electric's new Contactor (the TeSys U, a "smart" contactor with a LCD display, over/under load protection, short-circuit protection,.. whatever). Later on comes this guy, making some really bad jokes and then laughing himself -- the rest of us just laughed at the way he laughed, he was really loud. So, he shows some PLC basics. All was fine...

Next day he said, well, we're finished with the PLC stuff (actually we were finished with some really really bird's eye view of Ladder diagrams), now we'll see some SCADA. So the guy start showing this REALLY CRAPPY 16-bit app, and he showed ONE BY ONE every single widget (buttons, bar graphs, even some motors that changed colors to show when the output was running). And the library was H U G E. THOUSANDS of widgets. And he showed them "oh, look at how many of them there are! Just see how flexible this program is! See! We even have traffic lights! Buttons! Little trucks, big trucks, cars...".

I went outside and came back in 1 hour, and the guy was STILL SHOWING the fucking widgets and how to place and connect them. Needless to say, I didn't stay.

Google Developer Day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21756506)

Free Food: Indian, Mexican, HotDogs, etc
Buxom Models
Bean Bags
Comedian presenters

I couldn't bloody well concentrate!!!

Easy... (1)

jacksonj04 (800021) | more than 6 years ago | (#21756570)

"Introduction to Adobe Premiere"

I spent most of the workshop (Practical) cursing at the user interface, only to be told by the instructor that it was the best UI because "it's what the professionals use". My first action after the workshop was to wander down a floor to the media suites where I could use Final Cut to do the same thing in half the time, without buttons where the top and bottom half do different things.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?