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Miguel Delivers State of Gnome Address

Roblimo posted more than 14 years ago | from the onward-and-upward dept.

GNOME 172

Skeezix writes "Miguel de Icaza has delivered the State of Gnome Address in which he gives an excellent summary of the current state of Gnome, what is being worked on, what the future looks like, and how you can help."

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Re:And a person can't cuddle with a statue??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346193)

Yes, I suppose you CAN cuddle with a statue, but the question is... would you WANT to?

I believe that would be rather uncomfortable. Plus, it wouldn't be able to put it's arms around you or kiss you back... two things which very much add to the experience.

So, while it is possible to cuddle with a statue, I wouldn't reccomend it.

- Member of ELF (Engineers for Live Flesh) -

Re:GNOME: Where Does the Funding Come From? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346194)

I read somewhere Gnome is funded by the Church of Scientology. But I guess most Americans don't even see a problem there.

AfterStep all the way! (1)

QuMa (19440) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346195)

Yup, I completely agree. Afterstep all the way. That foot looks like it oughtta be in a mouth.

Implementing a "fully transparent" system (4)

Skeezix (14602) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346206)

The recent announcement of Apple included some very amazing
screenshots of what they could do with their technology. I was
impressed by it for the first two hours, until I realized how easy it
would be for us to actually pull a hack like that.


Although the fully-transparent system can be done with little
effort (as we have a very powerful infrastructure to achieve it: Raph
Levien's libart) a lot of work has to go *first* into making GNOME
easier to use, more intuitive and more easy for newcomers.



If you've seen the screenshot he is refering to [apple.com] that is a pretty impressive statement. Gnome is and is going to be an extremely advanced application framework. But as Miguel points out, there is much work that needs to be done now to make the Gnome Desktop ready to take the world by storm. And no matter who you are, there is something you can do to help.
----

Re:GNOME: Where Does the Funding Come From? (0)

browser_war_pow (100778) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346207)

I think cmdrtaco should get this guy's ip and ban him from /. since all he does is post totally off topic stuff like this

Re:First (1)

mick2275 (86608) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346208)

Tried that, didn't fix the problem. But I did get a "shop" button!

Nooo! Not VBA! (2)

tilly (7530) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346209)

Scroll down to the bottom. Apparently under the guise of Excel compatibility this spawn of Microsoft (Bill Gates got started with BASIC, wants everyone to use it) will soon infest Linux!

Actually, shudder as I might over the thought, it rationally is a pretty good idea. If anyone is interested the authors are Jody Goldberg and Michael Meeks. The mailing list is gb@helixcode.com [mailto] .

Cheers,
Ben

I can't help but wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346210)

...if the effort going into KDE/GNOME development would have been better spent working on an independant implementation of Motif/CDE.

After all, that's what "real" Unixes use, and would have gone a long way toward speeding up adoption of Linux/BSD/whatever in corporate environments.

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (1)

FigWig (10981) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346211)

Aqua looks good aesthetically, but I'm not sure if any enhancements were made as to ease of use. The only new thing that I have seen was the pseudo-taskbar thing at the bottom.

Personally I think Enlightenment already provides more than enough eye candy.

You pathetic atheist. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346212)

Banning unpopular speech, eh? Yes, that sounds like a typical liberal, all right. You don't want to know the truth about GNOME. You don't want to know that GNOME is actually a bastard child of Melissa Etheridge, fathered by David Crosby. No, you'd rather just use to look at your porn and listen to your MP3s. Well, no more! I will tell the truth about GNOME, and you will not stop me.

First (0)

xtremex (130532) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346216)

I think Gnome is fantastic..although I prefer KDE on a daily basis..it's more stable

we want a state address! (1)

zyqqh (137965) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346218)

Hey, so when do we get a "State of /." address?

"With 'first posts' at an all-time high, our readers are setting world records of obsession with petrification of females"...

AfterStep (1)

RoLlEr_CoAsTeR (39353) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346220)

all the way. No hold's barred. Though, I will admit, GNOME looks quite pretty. I think the foot is quite an endearment..

oh, wait.. i'm getting mushy.. no... [teary-eyed].. *sniffle*.. help me....

Re:First (1)

desertfool (21262) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346222)

Only problem I have with Gnome is Netscape 4.6.

Time to download 4.7......

Petrification - Totally offtopic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346224)

Hey. Just wondering.

WTF is with this petrification shit.
I like my women warm, soft, and wet. And their hair has to smell good too.

If I'm not mistaken, with petrification this is impossible.

Obviously you people have never been with a real woman if you believe that a petrified one would be better.

Re:we want a state address! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346226)

We got that when Andover left it's quiet period. You learned a lot when that happened, namely that Slash 0.4 is NOT opensource :)

Mmmmm...little green men... (2)

yesthatguy (69509) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346228)

Ideally, we want to make GNOME perfect, easy, small, intuitive,
resource friendly, portable, maintainable, funnier, entertaining,
productive, and the ultimate of the ultimates.


Ahh, if only all Software engineers shared this goal, and without getting paid serious money to boot!

I think, with this kind of dedication, Gnome could easily be the force bring Linux to the masses. Keep it up!
---------------

Re:First (3)

maan (21073) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346230)

If you're referring to the problem of netscape crashing on any page with some java on it...look at http://help.netscape.com/kb/consumer/19990807-8.ht ml
It now works for me 100%

Re:First (1)

iainh (67816) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346231)

Yes: It is interesting how the Shop button
Is conveniently located beside the Stop button

I'm running 4.7 in a freshly installed Frozen Potatoe and I'm not having any problems with it. However, I've only been using it for three hours.

Re:First (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346232)

Ahmen my brother. I used to be the first in line to curse Netscape, but after installing junkbuster and tweaking the font thingy it is actually as stable as a rock for me. In fact I kinda like it now :)

Evolution (1)

Mathieu Lutfy (69) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346233)

I'm really looking forward to 'Evolution', described as : "an integrated client for mail, news, calendaring, tasks and contact management.". I really like gnome-cal (Calendar), but I haven't found a very stable e-mail/news reader. Balsa is very cool, although I've often been having segfaults with the Debian-potato package.

In other words, new user-friendly applications that are quick and efficient to use, with a cool interface. Rock-on! ;)

Quick, we need screenshots!

Question:??? (1)

iainh (67816) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346234)

One thing that I don't understand:

Daniel Veillard has finally finished his work to change the > structure of his XML and HTML parsers on gnome-xml, so that > clients can drive the parsing process instead of the clients > driving the parsing process.

Is it the Clients driving the parsing process or the Clients driving the parsing process ??????

Re:Petrification - Totally offtopic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346235)

Real women value personal hygiene, conversation skills, fresh breath, manners, physical attractiveness, not living in parents' basements, and an interest in culture beyond last week's episode of Star Trek.

Obviously you people have never been with a real woman...

And obviously, there are reasons why.

Ok, you found a typo (4)

raph (3148) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346236)

2^n++ * 0.01 cents for you.

This should be "clients can drive the parsing process instead of the parser taking control." This is really cool when you're trying to parse XML and HTML streams from potentially blocking input streams, such as the network. Props to DV for doing this!

Re:First (3)

Zoltar (24850) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346237)

While I have no reason to doubt what you say... I'm gonna stick with KDE for a while. I was totally disgusted with the quality of Gnome/E that shipped with my RH6.0 cd. I love the way it looks but it was not a release product.

One of the main reasons I choose Linux over everything else was because it WORKS. I don't care how *pretty* it is, it must WORK FIRST, everything else is secondary.

While KDE looks kinda klunky, it's as STABLE as a rock and I've grown to like it over the past 6 months.

I don't give a hoot what kind of new technology they are working on if it blows core all over the place and I'm never sure which mouse click will be my last.

That said...I will give it another try, but only after they release a *stable* version and I see many positive reviews stating that it works.

Better and better... (1)

pb (1020) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346238)

I haven't upgraded some parts of my system since RedHat 6.0, (legacy cruft, don't ask) but I understand that Gnome has come a long way. What I have is already fairly usable, but I'll be happy to see it get better. Here's what I want:

* a better (more intuitive) filemanager for Unix.

Even if I don't end up using it, (CLI rules!) I'd love to see at least *one* decent filemanager for Unix, because there are a *lot* of crappy, unfinished ones out there. What KDE has looks pretty neat, at least. (and, once it's completely free, we can borrow / steal it all, ha ha ha!)

* Interoperability between toolkits / widget sets.

This is an idea I've had for a while. A consistent theming interface might make my idea obsolete, but in any case, I'd love to have a library that had a front end to handle the different function calls and a back end to map them onto a chosen widget set. Sort of like the GGI project with displays, except for widgets.

I know how hard this would be to implement, but think about it, 'cause it could save a lot of duplication of effort in the long run. Maybe we could end up working together, and have one awesome set of Unix desktop tools, instead of two pretty good ones.

* Window manager?

As far as window managers go, I really like Sawmill. And it looks fast enough and flexible enough to be used for... whatever. Also, now that I'm getting into Lisp and Scheme, it's good to see how useful they can still be...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11] .

Re:Nooo! Not VBA! (how about..) (1)

Mathieu Lutfy (69) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346249)

Excel support, although very evil, is a key feature which I think Gnumeric should have. I personally hate VBA, as it is a very evil and unefficient script language, but it would be very good for "transitionnal" users.

Does the WordPerfect 2000 Linux edition have VBA support? (If I'm not mistaken, the Windows version does).

Is there currently an application that uses Perl to replace VBA? I'm thinking of some kind of gnome-mod-perl. (If you treat me of heretic, I'll understand ;)

Re:I can't help but wonder... (5)

Kaufmann (16976) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346250)

*pfffffft*

That was the sound of water being expelled from my mouth and onto my computer's monitor at a high velocity after reading the above post.

As someone who uses both Gnome, OpenWindows and CDE regularly (on Intel and Sun workstations), I have to say that, on all accounts, Gnome is by far superior. Much more so when it behaves differently from both OW and CDE than when it behaves like those.

Sure, there's Lesstif, and there's probably a few dozen Free CDE clones around. But a lot of excellent work has been done on Gnome, to the point where it can be considered far superior for worstation use than CDE. As for porting current apps to Gnome, Lesstif makes it perfectly possible.

There isn't even the usual excuse of "eliminating duplication of effort". As long as we're writing software on our own, let's try to go beyond what has already done. I mean, look at what happened the last time someone tried to write an Unix clone :)

Re:STATE OF THE TROLLS ADDRESS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346251)

Okay...that is actually very funny :)

Re:STATE OF THE TROLLS ADDRESS (1)

Cybersonic (7113) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346252)

AHAHAHAHAHHA FINALLY a decent worthwhile read from a troll :) right on!

I often find (2)

aheitner (3273) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346253)

cases in GNOME where Win95 did things signifcantly differently -- an example is the configuration box with a series of tabs (Win95's Display Properties, GNOME's Control Center). Both GUIs have the same thing with the same intent, but GNOME's is a bit hard to figure out if you're used to Win95.

In Win95 the "Apply" button does things that can't be canceled by the "Cancel" button. If you change something, then hit "Apply", then "Cancel", your change takes effect. But in GNOME, each individual panel has its own "Try" and "Ok" buttons. It's much more consistent.

If you think about how it makes sense to work (how you'd want it to work if you were a new user who had been introduced to the WIMP paradigm but not the historical idiosyncracies of any particular implementation), GNOME is far more intuitive.

Re:I can't help but wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346254)

Good Point. I use CDE on my Solaris X86 box and I like it. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles but it's very functional.

Perl replacing VBA? (2)

tilly (7530) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346255)

I am not sure what you mean.

Certainly may places where VB variants are used, such as ASP, you can also use Perl.

Additionally with the appropriate modules Perl can drive things through OLE automation using the same APIs that VB uses.

But if what you want is a way to take a VB script and run it in Perl, I don't think so. Or to embed Perl inside of a VB application? That could also be hard. (ActiveState [activestate.com] sells tools to make dlls and com servers out of Perl, allowing it to be called from within VB. Again I doubt that is what you want.) Sorry...

Ben

Apple Aqua NOT JUST Alpha transparency (5)

rcromwell2 (73488) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346256)

Come on, of course it's trivial to add transparency to the desktop if you have a rendering system that supports Alpha channel. Windows 2000 even supports this, and there are little utilities that let you turn transparent windows on and off. Miguel would be sadly mistaken if he thinks this is all he has to add to GNOME to compete with Apple, or even Java2. Enlightenment/imlib already provides transparency in themes, but they provide *zippo* support to apps that want to render say, a 300DPI illustration.


What Miguel is missing is that Aqua is not about transparency, it's about Quartz, the Display-PDF rendering system. The NeXT display postscript system and Sun's NeWS could also handle alpha easily, but does anyone think that the only useful feature of Display Postscript or Quartz is being able to render alpha?

Systems like Quartz, DPS, and Java2D are resolution independent, support anti-aliasing on everything, full affine transformations for everything, virtually all compositing modes you can think of, built in ability to stroke complex shapes, like lines using arbitrary thickness, fill, dash-pattern, and endcaps. For instance, with Java2D it's almost trivial to write a postscript/pdf/svg renderer because the base library is so powerful.

Miguel's solution might resemble Aqua's transparent windows, but without a real 2D rasterization engine, GNOME apps will never approach the flexibility of Quartz apps in rendering. In fact, he won't even approach the quality of Aqua's nice warping/scaling of images with aliasing artifacts.


What I really hate is this not-invented-here tendency to automatically superficially evaluate and dismiss other people's technology without even doing 10 minutes of research besides looking at screenshots, and then making public assertions about how trivial it is, and how much better your "solution" will be.

Clearly, Linux's GUI toolkits need a powerful comprehensive resolution independent 2D API to support powerful display and printing apps. The current mode of separating the display and printing APIs is a pain in the ass to develop for.

The best innovations are built on the shoulders of others, and if Miguel would spend more time learning and stealing technology from Apple, Microsoft, and even the KDE team, and less time dismissing everything and trying to reinvent it, maybe GNOME wouldn't be so buggy and unusable.

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346257)

...more than enough eye candy.

No such thing.

In addition to a dialog (where I can check/uncheck a hundred or so "eye candies"), we need a slider that incrementally enables groups of features.


|---------|---------|----------|----------|----- -----|
xerox park...stark...whatever...sweet...rot-your-teeth

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346268)

Not to say 'I told you so..' but I remember glancing at the OS X screenshots and thinking "Glitzy. Alpha Channeled. Can't be that hard." And Miguel has proven me right.

I agree totally with him. Just because you can make a pretty desktop doesn't mean you have a functional one. Granted, it has to be aesthetically pleasing, but it also has to work *for the user.*

Part of that is total integration of applications, a very easy thing to implement with nice openly documented standards. Part of it is a pretty GUI that is fast and functional. Part of it is a mean suite of apps. This is all coming. The near future will be very exciting for the desktop and Linux.

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (2)

Foogle (35117) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346269)

Don't be obtuse -- Aqua isn't about "eye candy", it's about ease-of-use, and that's not something you're going to be able to discern from a simple screenshot. Apple has consistently lead the pack in making their interfaces "inuitive". That word is thrown around, but they've put a lot of effort into making sure they, more than anyone else, know what it means.

Yeah, Enlightenment more than meets the needs of "eye candy". You can make E look like whatever you want. But it won't duplicate the consistant interface design that Aqua has. Apple has kept a strict set of design guides for this very purpose, so that users will not be confused by their applications. Some people call variety one of Linux's strength... I don't agree. And I'm not talking about customization either. I'm talking about making sure that all of my widgets look the same. That my windows have a consistant look-and-feel.

-----------

"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

Re:Apple Aqua NOT JUST Alpha transparency (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346270)

I think you're missing the point. Apple's Quartz "technology" is really nothing more than a clone of the enhancements made to the Display Postscript system in Windows 2000 Professional. The GDI (or whatever you call it) of NeXT could do the same thing, but with more precision.

GNOME is already significantly more powerful than Quartz, though, really, Windows 2000's graphics system is the most powerful available.

Not to mention the new Terminal Services built into Windows 2000 that let you do things like remote window display, that no other system supports.

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (1)

gargle (97883) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346271)

Not to say 'I told you so..' but I remember glancing at the OS X screenshots and thinking "Glitzy. Alpha Channeled. Can't be that hard." And Miguel has proven me right.

It's never hard to copy someone else's design -- nothing to be proud of. Designing the system in the first place so that it looks appealing and works well for the user is the part that's difficult.

I don't know how well the Mac Aqua interface achieves these goals, but jumping up and down and saying 'Look, we can do this too!' is like copying a painting and saying gleefully 'Look, I can paint this too!'

Re:First (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346272)

...?

I know I likely shouldn't be responding to this, but what the heck. KDE more stable then Gnome? What version? October Gnome (ver 1.0.50, give or take a few minor ver #'s) is all about stability, especially after the rather embarassing Gnome 1.0 release.

I run Debian unstable, and Gnome never gives me any problems. Ever.

Re:Apple Aqua NOT JUST Alpha transparency (3)

Skeezix (14602) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346273)

What Miguel is missing is that Aqua is not about transparency, it's about Quartz, the Display-PDF rendering system.
The NeXT display postscript system and Sun's NeWS could also handle alpha easily, but does anyone think that the
only useful feature of Display Postscript or Quartz is being able to render alpha?




Miguel is intelligent enought to know we're not just talking about alpha channeling. He was saying that libart [levien.com] provided the necessary tools. In case you are unaware, libart is a library for high-performance 2D graphics. It is the antialiased rendering engine for the Gnome Canvas. It supports a powerful imaging model which is basically the same as SVG [w3.org] or Java2D [javasoft.com] . It does Vector Paths, Bezier Paths, RGB and RGBA images, Sorted Vector Paths, MicroTile Arrays, and Affine transformations.


The best innovations are built on the shoulders of others, and if Miguel would spend more time learning and stealing
technology from Apple, Microsoft, and even the KDE team, and less time dismissing everything and trying to reinvent
it, maybe GNOME wouldn't be so buggy and unusable.



This exact approach has been what Miguel has sought after. He is frequently quoted as wanting to take the best ideas from companies like Microsoft, get rid of the bad parts, and integrate them into Gnome. I've personally conversed with him about this exact issue while waiting to watch Phantom Menace on opening night. He says that he doesn't like it when everyone goes around saying Microsoft sucks and that's the end of the story. Microsoft, Apple, and others, have made great strides with their Desktop technologies, and Miguel has been borrowing from them, believe me.
----

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (1)

gargle (97883) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346274)

And it is an art form that the Open Source community excels at.

The Open Source community excels at technical matters, but the open source tradition is a technical one, not an artistic one (yes, programming is an art form to some extent).

I've no doubt some of the most talented programmers in the world are active contributors to various Open Source projects. But we can't similarly claim that we have the best user interface designers in the world.

The situation we have now seems to be similar to the situation in the early days of computer games, where programmers doubled up as artists. If we want good user interfaces, we have to recognize that talent in user interface design is separate from talent in programming -- then find the best people in this area and get them to contribute to open source projects.

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (2)

Ravensign (134410) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346275)

I was impressed by it for the first two hours, until I realized how easy it would be for us to actually pull a hack like that.

Sounds like some one with a severe case of "Simple Matter of Programming" disease.

Yes, maybe it would be easy for them to pull off the transparency in menu's etc, but the Quartz foundation of OS X enables transparency, anti-aliasing, seamless import/ export of PDF, and real time manipulation of screen graphics ala the "genie effect" and the realtime resizing w/ aa of the dock elements etc.

IMHO, his statements about the ease of matching Aqua and Quartz's feature set are pretty heavy in light of, well... have you seen GNOME? It's GTK based over X windows... comparing this imaging model to Quartz is ludicrous.

Re:I often find (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346276)

now if only they would figure out that the world wants native widgets. who cares how easy it is to code if it looks and acts like shit?

Re:GNOME: Where Does the Funding Come From? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346277)

Where did you read that Gnome is funded by the Church of Scientology?

www.xenu.net [xenu.net]

Re:Apple Aqua NOT JUST Alpha transparency (2)

Darchmare (5387) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346278)

Why was this labeled flamebait?

Mark it up as informative. It's perfectly valid.

- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com] )

Re:Ok, you found a typo (1)

iainh (67816) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346279)

Thank you

Re:A Great Troll-Killing Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346280)

This is actually a worthy idea, and I would much rather have effort put toward this than "enhancing" my slashdot experience in some other ways that your Andover masters are probably cooking up. Ie, implement a troll ban and you'll get more pageviews. The "trolls", who aren't trolling at all --you'd have to know something to properly troll-- are just stinking up the joint, and they should all vanish silently & forever from legit users' screens.
/. might recover some of its former brilliance with them gone. Thanx.

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346281)

Actually you are VERY right and I thought that not long after making my post. Sure, we can make it look pretty. We could make it look like someone else's prettiness that is.

But why is it that we can't figure out how to make it pretty for ourselves? Even the Gnome-UI squad only has half the idea.. Looking at their ideas for the next Gnome File Manager, it looks like the "View as Web Page" mode that Win98 has.

Honestly, can we not think up a whole UI of our own? No more Start Menu's/Feet, no more application Title Bars with a 1-3 button configuration (options, iconify, maximise, close). Do we have to mirror Win9x? Or MacOS? Or can we actually put our heads together and try to dream up some *new* UI concepts? Something intuitive?

I hope I'm not dreaming.

Good Trolls work hard. (1)

EdlinUser (50699) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346282)

Thanks for that report. A good troll is worth 2 beta testers. Perhaps you could post a troll FAQ. Seems there are a lot of newbie trolls that don't have a clue.

Re:First (1)

Kyobu (12511) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346283)

Netscape doesn't interact with Gnome. It uses statically-linked Motif instead of gtk+, and doesn't use any of Gnome's features like drag-n-drop. Therefore, I doubt that Gnome is your problem.

Re:Apple Aqua NOT JUST Alpha transparency (1)

rcromwell2 (73488) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346284)


Umm, what are you babbling about? It is Windows that has GDI, and the NeXT and NeWS systems which use Display Postscript.


You're on drugs. No other system supports remote display like Windows 2000? Come again?

Where is a linux security faq..? (1)

jonnythan (79727) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346285)

Hey...prob won't read this, but if anyone does, could you point me to an actual Linux security FAQ for an average, relatively new user? I'm having trouble finding one geared towards a home, non-server desktop system
Thanks

Yes, It's in CVS. (1)

iserlohn (49556) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346286)

Alpha channel support is already in CVS as implemented as a part of GDK-pixbuf. However, to achieve a fully hardware accelerated alpha channel would require a extention to the X protocol, which the Xfree team is very intrested in, and might be eventually based on the current code, if the code is re-released under the X license. There are anti-aliasing widgets for gnome, ala Gnome-Canvas, but it is no where as low level as quartz.

However, to laugh at X is arrogant. Yes, it is ancient, but the protocol was well designed for networks, and it is very extensible.

Re:like X? (1)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346287)

No, you are wrong. Under X I can easily run an app (a complete application, like Netscape Communicator) one one machine and display its entire GUI on another machine anywhere in the world. I do this all the time when I'm sitting at a Sun but I need to run a Linux app.

Try installing it to it's own dir... (1)

absolute (71745) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346295)

If you want to see GNOME screw up, try installing it to it's own dir, say /usr/local/gnome. This is not meant to be a flame, it's the honest truth, when. When I installed October gnome to /usr/local/gnome, most of the programs in it *INSISTED* on looking for shared files in /usr/local/share, when they really should have been looking in /usr/local/gnome/share. I think gnome is pretty good, I like the look and feel and stability of KDE much better. KDE 2.0 is coming along very nicely.

2 Must-Have Features for Evolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346296)

1) LDAP support for the address book. DON'T do Yet Another Proprietary Address Book, use the well-defined IETF/IDEF standard LDAP protocol and the INetOrgPerson objectclass.

See http://www.openldap.org for a good, Free LDAP server. See http://www.mozilla.org/directory/ for the Free library source.

2) Seamless integration of PGP and S-MIME. The user should be required to authenticate to Evolution using their PGP pass phrase on startup, and then when sending mail to recipiants for whom the public key is known (this can be stored in the LDAP directory, BTW) the mail should be sent encrypted. By default.

Add these 2 features, and you'll have an e-mail client worthy of the enterprise. In other words, a potential replacement for Lotus Notes or Exchange.

Re:Why should I work for Gnome again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346297)

damn right.

oh, plus Gtk is a bitch to code.

Re:First (1)

nutsy (33125) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346298)

Tried that, didn't fix the problem. But I did get a "shop" button!

Sounds like you need a crash course in how to get of the dang-blasted 'Shop' button [slashdot.org] .

like X? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346299)

Not sure exactly what "remote window display" is in terms of Win2k, but X makes it fairly trivial to control most of the display aspects of another box on your network, including launching windowed apps, controlling the background image, etc.

A Great Troll-Killing Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346300)

I just had a great idea.

Modify the moderation system, such that if a post is marked "troll" then it is checked for certain key phrases, updated by Andover staff. Stuff like "hot grits" "naked and petrified" etc.

If a match is found, then the moderation is free, ie, it costs the moderator no moderation points.

In one fell swoop, defeating the troll's goal of "draining off moderation points"!

Do it Rob!

Say, you realize that if the Slash source was posted, that I could have patched this in myself and sent the diff to you...

Re:Apple Aqua NOT JUST Alpha transparency (5)

rcromwell2 (73488) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346301)

Miguel is intelligent enought to know we're not just talking about alpha channeling. He was saying that libart provided the necessary tools. In case you are unaware, libart is a library for high-performance 2D graphics. It is the antialiased rendering engine for the Gnome Canvas. It supports a powerful imaging model which is basically the same as SVG or Java2D. It does Vector Paths, Bezier Paths, RGB and RGBA images, Sorted Vector Paths, MicroTile Arrays, and Affine transformations.

That would be true, if libart really did match the functionality of DPS or Java2D, but unfortunately, a quick look at the API in the header files shows that not only is it insufficient, but it also looks like a very difficult API to use in the first place.

Consider the following task: Fetch the glyph for the letter 'S', convert it to a bezier path, shear it by 0.3, 0.4. Set this stroke as a clipping path. Next, render the word "Linux rulez", scaled by 2.0/2.0, applying a a gaussian blur kernel to the output (for dropshadow). Next, re render the text with a radial gradient fill overtop of the background. Finally, fetch a penguin icon and render it overtop of the 'I' of the text with 0.3 alpha.
Of course, all this must be antialiased and rendered pixel perfect. Next, render this in a variety of output formats including:

  1. grayscale
  2. monochrome (1-bit)
  3. ARGB
  4. BGR
  5. palette mapped

Not only can't libart do this (it has ZERO support for font glyph operations), but libart has no provisions for handling a multiple of pixel formats, nor does it have integrated support for image ops like applying convolutions, and finally, the libart test code to render just a few vpath's is about 5 times longer than the equivalent code required in Objective-C/DPS or Java/Java2D.

But I'm not bashing libart or Raph Levien. I have respect for his work. I'm sure it will tremendously improve over the next year, when such functionality becomes a "must have", but right now, it's more like an experimental proof-of-concept library in the beginning stages. What I find absurd however, is how the GNOME team keeps putting forward *OBVIOUSLY INCOMPLETE* projects like they are 1.0 FCS versions ready to compete with mature implementations. Like it or not, the current GNOME Canvas can't hold a candle to a Postscript/PDF/Java2D rasterizer, no matter how many times alpha version libraries are asserted.

My post was marked flamebait, but I view Miguel's comments as the real flamebait. Why does he feel the need to bash Apple's work (I am not a Mac owner and never owned a Mac), like it's so trivial and he's such a master coder that he could just blow Apple and Adobe out of the water if he felt like making the effort?

Apple's work on imaging in Mac OS X is clearly more than just "skin"/"theme" hacks, and focusing on the cool transparency effects ignores the hard work that went in to actually designing the dockbar user interface. Maybe the GNOME/Enlightenment guys should spend a little more time themselves on UI design, and less on "looks".

Re:2 Must-Have Features for Evolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346302)

FASTER faster FASTER.
more stable please
less shit

Re:Perl replacing VBA? (2)

Croaker (10633) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346303)

I think what the person meant was "use Perl instead of VBA as a scripting language for an application." I.e. embed Perl instead of embedding a VBAish language.

I personally think this is a BAD idea. Don't get me wrong... I like Perl, and I use it a lot. But I use it because I already know the UNIXisms that are buried in Perl. Expecting a newbie who wants to automate a few things in a document or spreadsheet to master the quirks of Perl is asking a bit much.

A scripting language should be fairly easy for a novice to pick up. At least in theory, VBA is a good candidate for this. The syntax, compared to Perl, C, etc. is much simpler. Less of an overall learning curve.

The actual implementation of VBA is, however, really lame. The State of the GNOME address pointed out one of the major failings: no security. Hence we get Melissa and other worms. Having worked with VBA, I've come across many bugs and petty limitations that get in the way of what I want to do. The core language isn't that bad, but the interface to applications (such as Word) really sucks in places.

A previous author in this thread said that GNUmeric should be compatible with VBA. I'm not sure that this is the goal of GNOME's BASIC project... for one thing, you do not want VBA's (non-existent) security architecture anywhere near one of your applications. Another is that you don't want to re-create all of the laces that VBA falls flat. They may get a system that is somewhat compatible (and maybe could use macros in an Excel spreadsheet with some sort of translation mechanism) but trying to recreate VBA enough for macros is just a waste of time, compared to the amount of time you'd put into creating a robust and useful scripting language.

Perhaps the ideal way to handle this would be to make a plugin system for scripting languages, so you can bang out a macro in whatever language you like. Perl, Python, LISP, Tcl, and this VBA-ish language could all live happily within the GNOME desktop apps. If you know a scripting language already, you can just wade right in. If not, then the VBAish thing should be easy to pick up, and its development tools would be built right into the environment.

I also wonder how many people actually use scripting languages in applications, such as wordprocessors. I've done a fair amount of it, because I know what macros can do for you. Where I used to work, I found a bunch of cases where people were doing tedious, repetative things that a macro could handle... they just didn't think that there was a better way...

Re:Yes, It's in CVS. (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346304)

> Alpha channel support is already in CVS as implemented as a part of GDK-pixbuf.

What exactly does this mean? Why aren't my
widgets translucent? Oh, you mean as part of
the canvas. Well, that's different. Cool, but
not quite the same.

Just because it's in CVS doesn't mean it's done,
or useful for what we're talking about.

> However, to achieve a fully hardware
accelerated alpha channel would require a extention to the X protocol, which the Xfree team is very intrested in,

Hmm. Some of the developers were asked about
that very thing, and they said: "that's what
opengl is for". In other words, they weren't
keen on the idea.

And that's only a part of the puzzle. There is
a whole lot more to Quartz than alpha blending
(generalized compositing, transformations, raster
based post-processing effects like the drop
shadow). Are you going to put all that on the
server?

> and might be eventually based on the current code, if the code is re-released under the X license. There are anti-aliasing widgets for gnome, ala Gnome-Canvas, but it is no where as low level as quartz.

Exactly. Quartz has a single rendering model
with compositing, affine transformations, etc,
for the entire system. No canvas/windowing
system/window manager/widget set boundaries.
Which is why they can do that, and gnome can't,
without a significant amount of work at this
point. And no, a quick hack to make translucent
menus doesn't count.

(that's a thinly veiled challenge, gnome folks!)

>However, to laugh at X is arrogant. Yes, it is ancient, but the protocol was well designed for networks, and it is very extensible.

Well, they call it their PDF rendering model
in Macosx, but that's basically an updated
version of Display Postscript. Which could be
easily serialized across a network. It might
be dog slow, but so would X with that kind of
eye candy, and with DPS you'd have a whole lot
more room to optimize lowlevel stuff on the
server side (like compositing), WITHOUT adding server extensions.


Sorry, X can probably be patched and patched and
patched to get it to do what people want, and it
will probably work pretty well, but it won't be
pretty. Better maybe to start over?


Peter

Re:like X? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346305)

No, what I'm talking about is running a program on a remote box and having it display on a local display terminal.

Trust me, I've hacked X, and it can't be done... W2K makes it trivial, though.

Re:First (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346306)

Many of those who run screaming from GNOME do so because it's almost always used in conjunction with enlightenment. Version .15 in particular had some real stability issues for me. Before you pass judgement on GNOME, try it using Sawmill [sourceforge.net] . It's a lightweight, rock-solid window manager that can easily be configured to behave virtually any way that you desire. It's a wonderful program that doesn't get much publicity.

FWIW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346307)


libart is meant to be a relatively low-level
vector graphics library. Image processing,
fonts (which can be handled by a seperate
library using the libart), even rendering
the bloody paths to the screen are beyond the
scope of the library. All that stuff is
delegated to clients of the library.

And regarding Java 2d: I don't think that's
a solution. Doesn't it have the same problems
with the division between UI and graphical
canvas? Can you embed a button in a drawing
and rotate...drop shadow, all the while having
it update automatically?


Peter

Re:Petrification - Totally offtopic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346314)

It's a control thing. Go figure...

I couldn't find the state (1)

aozilla (133143) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346315)

I betcha it's California...

Re:Mmmmm...little green men... (1)

yesthatguy (69509) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346316)

Of course, the one time I don't preview...oh well!

Ideally, we want to make GNOME perfect, easy, small, intuitive,
resource friendly, portable, maintainable, funnier, entertaining,
productive, and the ultimate of the ultimates.


The emphasis there should've been on perfect :)
---------------

Kool Desktop Environment (2)

solar (94732) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346317)

Personally, as a former Windows 95b user, I prefer KDE [kde.org] over GNOME. However, I use tons of the GNOME apps that came with my RedHat 6.1 distro. I simply find the KDE interface more intuitive (or probably just closer to what I'm used to) and more stable. It's good to read things like:

The wm-spec team is almost ready with their new window manager specification which is unified across GNOME and KDE.

Anyways, I wish the GNOME team the best. If you're not a programmer, you can still help by sending in bug reports as you find the need to do so.

GNOME is cool (2)

lubricated (49106) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346318)

I've been using October GNOME and sawmill for quite some time now. Anyone saying that its less stable than kde now is just plain wrong. I decided to give kde a try. I tried to force myself to use it. I gave up after a few days. Gnome's desktop is trully customizable. No two gnome-desktops after being customized to ones needs are alike. Gnome's panel has the best applets. If you like mini apps these kick ass. From a cpu monitor network monitor icq mini-commander pager deskguide. many diffrent clocks. Drawers are great too they let you consolidate your shortcuts. Oh well thats enough for now.

Re:First with HTML tags! (0)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346319)

Allright, that was funny.

Conspiracy? (2)

Zog (12506) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346320)

"*Bug fixing GNOME.

If you are interested in doing some detective work, and helping other people. This is also a great way of learning about the various GNOME framework libraries: it will expose you to real problems in real applications (boy, I sound like Microsoft hiring material)."

Conspiracy? Of course not... That would be just a little too logical... ;)





Re:Try installing it to it's own dir... (1)

lubricated (49106) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346321)

./configure --prefix=/usr/local/gnome
for all the programs and packages you compile. Not just gnome-libs. Everything needs it. Otherwise the default of /usr/local will be used.

Re:Implementing a "fully transparent" system (2)

Skeezix (14602) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346322)

I have to disagree. It is possible to begin with another's idea and work to "copy" it, but then enhance it. Would you categorize Linux as just a copy of Unix? I look at it this way: You see a good idea and think to yourself, "How could I implement this? Could I improve on it?" And as you implement it, new ideas come to you. It is very much an art form. And it is an art form that the Open Source community excels at.
----

So said the dinosaur as he sank into the tar pit (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346323)

Quoth the mammal: "What is dead is the notion of selling software as if it were a physical widget. Instead, we are moving to a world where programmers code to solve problems, and then share that code amongst each other to increase the size of problem-solving space.

Employers will pay coders to solve those problems because solving those problems help their business. This is, in fact, the employment model used by the vast majority of programmers, it is those who try and sell code who are the minority.

Those who are the slaves are those who work long hours for little pay and empty stock options hoping that their labours can be sold as product. This model can never hold, as the greatly larger free software community will always beat them on quality and price.

Coding software is a SERVICE industry, not a manufacturing industry. We are more akin to mechanics than to farmers. We are highly skilled operators of machinery that fix problems. We produce nothing!

Those who do not learn this lesson are doomed to fail.

You may not want to work on GNOME, but thousands of others do. They will eat your lunch.

THIS is the Open Source revolution!

Re:First (2)

TandyMasterControl (136043) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346324)

I absolutely understand your feeling about Gnome/E as shipped on RH6.0. It's a disaster. However, the latest stable gnome (1.0.53 which is 1.0.54 on my system somehow) is a far different critter, much more stable. I generally despise Enlightenment for it's obtrusiveness and grandiosity which has gone from bad to worse, so I replace E with IceWM 1.0.1 This is much nicer feeling than E, IMO, cause it does what you want a windowmanager to do and doesn't constantly call attention to itself. IceWM 1.0.1 and October gnome has made Gnome liveable for me, finally, although in the months since RH6.0 I have spent a lot of time in KDE, and more lately discovering lighter environments and windowmanager combinations. Now that I can stand gnome, I'm not sure I want or need a "desk environment". I rarely use the start menu thingy for either Gnome or KDE and the other panel apps aren't too compelling in either case, so I'm kind of pared down to IceWM+DFM (a good file manager that's attractive, unlike Gnu Midnight Commander, which I could never stand the sight of). Lighter combinations are faster and IceWM's Gnome compatibility and the fact that DFM itself is gtk based allow me to use "Gnome" gtk apps transparently with the file manager without having to run a Gnome-session desktop. It has also solved 95% of my angst about KDE's clunky look and heavy footprint. This at last is about all i want or could ask from a Linux desktop and I'd recommend it to anyone who's underwhelmed by overblown desktop environments and not afraid of doing a samll amount of text configuration.

Re:like X? (1)

dyslexia (96008) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346325)

You will have to provide a better description than that. Running a program on a remote box with it's display on a local machine is exactly what X does.

Re:like X? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346326)

Yes, I understand that.

The point is that under Windows 2000, I can easily take a program on another part of the network and make it show up on my PC. In X, this only applies to graphics primitives, whereas on the W2K way, you can make complete windows show up, including all the windows of the application.

Re:I often find (1)

jdub! (24149) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346328)

I'm sorry to say this, but as much as I like GNOME, I think you've used the single worst example of "consistency" and "usability" in GNOME as it currently stands.

Although there are huge benefits in having evey configuration item accessible from the one window (ala GNOME and Netscape, as opposed to Windows & Mac Control Panels), I think it's massively counter intuitive to provide "try", "ok", "cancel" buttons for each separate entity and *especially* when you have to colourise the ones that haven't been confirmed... I really recommend a look at the new Mozilla config panel - very slick, thanks to the work of Ben Goodger.

Correct GNOME User Interface Project URL (3)

adraken (8869) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346329)

Miguel mentioned the GNOME User Interface Improvement Project:
Currently GNOME lacks a bit of polishing when it comes to the end desktop because we do not ship a good set of presets for it. Shipping good presets and revamping the user interface (as suggested by our user interface team at http://www.gnome.org/gnome-ui) is a really important task.

The real URL is at http://developer.gnome.org/gnome-ui [gnome.org] .

The great thing about developing interfaces with GNOME is the libglade architecture. Designing an usable interface is easier if you can rapidly design it in such a program and if you can tweak and revise it at runtime.

Re:Why should I work for Gnome again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346331)

So go back to coding for Bill, temp-bitch. And stop trashing our board with your bile and lies.
bye now

Re:And a person can't cuddle with a statue??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346334)

have you tried it?

fortunately there are lots of statues here in new york. I tried cuddling up with the Ghandi in Union Square, but was arrested by the sexualist cops for "lewd conduct" or something before we (and i mean we) could climax.

bastards. i guess there just werent enough unarmed immigrants for the nypd to shoot or something at the time

Re:we want a state address! (0)

Gnumfroh (141862) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346341)

I guess we'll have to wait until Andover goes out of business and Rob is on his own again, as in the Old Days.

GNOME's progress (1)

Maul (83993) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346342)

GNOME's progress is looking good. I still prefer KDE over GNOME for many reasons, but there is no reason to start a jihad over Window managers.

GNOME looks nice, and is getting (thankfully) more stable than it was when I first tried it out. While it may be hard to give up my beloved KDE, I'll definately give GNOME another chance when I feel it is on par with KDE for my needs. ^_^

"You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're dreaming or awake?"

Re:First (2)

lubricated (49106) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346343)

I have found kde to be less intuative and less stable than October GNOME. GNOME may have gotten itself a reputation of being unstable because of its release early release often strategy but the stable release of GNOME is in fact very stable. KDE however doesn't make releases very often. So people only get exposed to their stable stuff. While distributors like Redhat put GNOME on their cd while its in prerelease. (e.g Redhat put pre-October GNOME on their 6.1 cd) This prerealese is unstable. I have seen it freeze up. For anyone who thinks that GNOME is unstable download the latest October stuff and think again.

Ahh... Future looks bright. (2)

Turmio (29215) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346344)

That was one informative message, I must say. From GNOME user's point of view it's nice to see the GNOME folks are doing such hard work and thus the project is advancing rapidly.

So GNOME 1.2 is coming (not that soon, though). And Linux 2.4, Debian GNU/Linux 2.2, FreeBSD 4.0, XFree 4.0, Mozilla and GCC 3.0 are on their way and probably they all are released before Q3/2000.

It's so great to be a Free Unix-like system user, don't you agree?

STATE OF THE TROLLS ADDRESS (1)

opensourceman (124101) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346345)

dear friends,

many people (cute teenaged girls/hot young actresses/men and feminazis) have asked the troll team, where are the trolls headed in the future? when is a new troll coming out? what are the new features that are going to be included in the new trolls? what can we expect from them?

* the troll state.

there are many areas into which the troll project is expanding; you have to keep in mind that trolling is an umbrella project which is made up of various components:

* the OPEN SOURCE trolls: these are trolls that may or may not start out being semi-ontopic but usually quickly decay into something wholely irrelevant. there is, at times, an "open source" theme. natalie portman and/or drew barrymore often appear in these.

* the NAKED & PETRIFIED trolls: these trolls usually focus on the petrification of cute teenaged girls, hot young actresses, men and feminazis. these trolls usually involve the turning to stone of these groups. natalie portman often appear in these.

* the GRITS trolls: these trolls exclusively deal with the various aspects of grits-pouring. these trolls will almost always include the grits being poured down one's pants.

* the X trolls: i won't mention them by name, because they are proprietary. going too deeply into the issue would ruin it for you. they know who they are.

* the MEEPT trolls: none of the above.

the various trolls of the slashdot trolling project have their own release schedule, which lets the troll authors compose their works as the inspiration hits. from time to time two trolls organize a collaborative troll. the most recent collaborative troll was "OPEN SOURCE COLLABORATION."

* the short future of the trolls.

we have been doing a lot of work infrastructure-wise and sometimes we have failed to be very communicative about it. it is our fault, and we need to do a better of job at telling people what we have been up to.

ideally, we want to make our trolls perfect, easy, small (or long), intuitive, resource friendly, portable, maintainable, funnier, entertaining, productive, and the ultimate of the ultimates.

we will ideally try to get the following features in the next major release of our trolls:

* less on-topicness

* more inflammatory

* more gender neutrality (we are sensitive to the concerns of the feminazi movement here on slashdot)

* multi-size panel, smoother icons, more panel types, nicer art work.


* the long term future of the trolls
ultimately our goals are to open source hot young actresses, men, cute teenage girls and feminazis as well as to turn them into stone.

we also wish to eventually drain all moderation points out of the system.

* how you can help.

* moderate the shit out of us!
* respond extensively to our trolls!
* become a troll yourself!
* send us money!
* send us pictures of hot young actresses, cute teenage girls, men and feminazis!


thank you.

Re:State of Gnome in a Dress? (0)

cheese63 (74259) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346346)

hahahahaha. underpants gnomes. awsome

Re:Kool Desktop Environment (1)

Spirilis (3338) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346347)

To a certain extent I think that's what GNOME's heading for (the more-intuitive interface). Well not specifically at the window manager level, but by proposing to replace the huge, bloated, ugly Gnome Midnight Commander with something else...

Re:Petrification - Totally offtopic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346348)

You forgot naked

Re:First (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346349)

AMEN BRAH

Re:Petrification - Totally offtopic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346359)

For most people, it's NOT a control issue. But no two people are the same. Some of us think it's SELFISH to partake of fleshy, mobile females, and think that the females would be happier and more content as immortal statues, able to engage in their intellectual and philosophical pursuits freely, without being forced to interact with the material world.

See these sites for more info.

The Hall of Statuary [oaktree.net]

The Medusa Realm [xoom.com]

Studs in Stone [texas.net] -- See, we're not sexist

The alt.sex.fetish.robots homepage [asfr.com]

The alt.sex.fetish.robots newsgroup [sex.fetish.robots]

Statuephiles [aol.com]

Kimy's House of Living Mannequins [livingmannequin.com]

Happy petrification!

Re:Petrification - Totally offtopic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346360)

maybe so... but they sure are no fun when they're stone.

And a person can't cuddle with a statue??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346361)

Geez, you are *SO* biased against nonorganic life forms! You know, there's a WHOLE WORLD out there that isn't carbon-based, and you just brush 'em off and say "Anybody who prefers mineralistic over organic is a freak."

This is just like the issue of interracial relationships. Just as black white relationships were once frowned on, now it's statue organic relationships that are frowned upon. But that'll change. Oh yes. It'll change.

Re:And a person can't cuddle with a statue??? (1)

opensourceman (124101) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346362)

did they learn nothing from mannequin 2: on the move?

GNOME: Where Does the Funding Come From? (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1346363)

Friends, those of you who watch the wonderful Fox News Channel know that Bill O'Reilly has been doing an excellent series on the Linux operating system and the GNOME desktop environment. He's been doing some digging and has come up with some preliminary results that he's going to unveil on "The O'Reilly Factor." Well, I got an advance copy of his results from the web site, and so I thought I would share them with you and the rest of the community. It is important that we monitor these people and make sure we know what they're up to.

  • The ACLU (Anti-Christian Litigation Unit) donated $10,000 directly to Miguel. There can be no doubt that this money is a reward for the development of software that is intended to promote communism. The ACLU will not stop until we are all ruled under their iron fist. It makes sense that they would donate money to a cause that has the destruction of capitalism and decent Christian society at the top of its list.

  • The American Atheists also made a sizable donation to the FSF, with the express condition that the money go to the GNOME project. The check was signed by Madalyn Murray O'Hair herself .. before she was killed by some noble soul .. so this means that the atheists, as an organization, must have been prepared for this! They must have known years ago that somebody would invent some sort of technology that would work to attack capitalism at its roots, and they wanted to have the check signed in advance. If there was ever any doubt that atheists are pathetic socialists, that doubt can be dispelled.

  • The Sierra Club donated $25K to the FSF as well, and while they did not specify that any of that money was to go to GNOME specifically, you can bet that the free software commies and environazis made some sort of slick deal behind the scene. Environmentalism translates directly to communism, and it should come as no surprise that these tree-hugging hippies are in bed with the GNOME socialists. What will their slogan be next year? "Plant a tree, erase a Windows partition, destroy capitalism?" Friends, that's probably not too much off the mark.

  • Troop 317 of the Girl Scouts of America donated 50% of the proceeds from their cookie sales to the FSF. Friends, while it is heartwarming to see young women being prepared for the role of cookie-preparer (as is demanded by Scripture), it is sickening to see girls band together in a cheap imitation of the Boy Scouts. This smacks of feminism, and is probably the work of the damnable National Organization for Women. Patricia Ireland and the rest of NOW are most likely behind this socialist donation.
So there's the money trail, friends. We will have to watch this closely. But to any and all GNOME-friendly people reading this post, know this: We are on to you. Do you understand me? We're on to you. You'll have to be a little more careful in the future, my socialist compadres. We're one step ahead of you all.

Thank you for your time.

Re:GNOME's progress (1)

UuCon (4853) | more than 14 years ago | (#1346364)

I'm guessing that the whole stability thing is different for everyone. The excuse I here most often from KDE users about why they don't use GNOME, is the stability of it compared to KDE. I don't know....I tried KDE out, it was ok, but I didn't really like it. I suppose the desktop environment is directly(not symobilically) linked to the type of user you are. I put Linux on my girlfriends computer and stuck her with Mandrake/KDE, because I found that KDE had more GUI tools that would be better for her to migrate from Win9x. I, on the other hand, being a very much do-it-your-self-er(I use slackware, the "I don't need no steeenkin' GUI to configure my system" distro), prefer gnome. It does have a lot of GUI tools, but just not as many as KDE. I sit Sawmill on top of GNOME, or visa-versa and am very happy.

NOTE: this is NOT meant to be a flame-war starter, just an informative message.
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