Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

American Security Firms Collaborate on Chinese Olympics

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the helping-hands-across-the-world dept.

Security 68

A New York Times story at News.com notes the efforts of American security organizations to help the Chinese government prepare for the coming Olympic games. Critics argue this assistance violates the spirit of Congressional sanctions, and that the technology left behind after the games are over could be used to track dissident elements. "'I don't know of an intelligence-gathering operation in the world that, when given a new toy, doesn't use it,' said Steve Vickers, a former head of criminal intelligence for the Hong Kong police who now leads a consulting firm. Indeed, the autumn issue of the magazine of China's public security ministry prominently listed places of religious worship and Internet cafes as locations to install new cameras. "

cancel ×

68 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Simple reasons ... (1)

foobsr (693224) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858022)

– funneling money into security organizations, thus ensuring that there is a proper infrastructure to be put in place once too many US-citizens should decide to be fed up with the feds
– providing a testbed for said organizations
– ensuring that the US will not come under (economic) pressure from a democratic China

Business as usual.

CC.

Re:Simple reasons ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21858108)

This shouldn't be a surprise since we've already completely sold out to the chinese. Who cares what attrocities they commit or the fact that they compete on an unfair field.. you know, what with their practically imprisoned slave labor...

Simple Anti-Surveillance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21870804)

Spray paint. It can render a camera useless, without actually damaging it.

This Should Not Be Allowed (1)

NeverVotedBush (1041088) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859466)

Too much information/innovation has already been stolen by the Chinese. They commit computer crime to infiltrate computer systems and exfiltrate data. They use students and employees to steal proprietary information from companies. They reverse engineer products manufactured in China and/or run production lines long.

Have people forgotten about the long string of Chinese engineers busted transferring information to the homeland? How about when their pilot Wang Wei crashed into and crippled a US recon airplane forcing it to land in China, how they imprisoned the crew, basically took the plane apart, and refused to let the US repair it and fly it out?

They use the technology against us and against their own people. There is nothing wrong with helping a country but handing them valuable technology is wrong.

Re:This Should Not Be Allowed (0, Flamebait)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859590)

Do you REALLY want to start a penis size contest when it comes to international crimes when compared to the USA???

Re:This Should Not Be Allowed (1)

NeverVotedBush (1041088) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859676)

There is no denying that the current administration especially, and I'm sure others as well, have committed international crimes, that doesn't mean we should hand China everything they want/need to bury this country and oppress their own people.

Re:This Should Not Be Allowed (1)

kaynaan (1180525) | more than 6 years ago | (#21866732)

That is Funny.

"Wang Wei crashed into and crippled a US recon airplane forcing it to land in China"

And what do you think the U.S would have done to a chinese recon plane ???

Reminder: you do not own the world, that is a valid response of any government that has the capability, the only reason it is not done more often, is that other governments don't have the power to do it.

Help Please (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21858092)

Not far from China you'll find the delightful debauchery themed vacation town of Drunkard Town [myminicity.com] .

Get drunk, high, act a fool....whatever you like at Drunkard Town.

And, as this is a targeted ad*, we want to note that your entire Drunkard Town [myminicity.com] experience will be supported by fully FOSS compliant software**, ESR and RMS approved**. GPL compliant**. Feel free to bring your dual boot laptop and boot it into whatever obscure Linux distro you like, right there in the bar, distillery, brewpub, winery, or whorehouse.

* you may be also targeted by carniverous voles during your visit
** not really

So I guess now it is... (3, Funny)

sokoban (142301) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858094)

Me American. Me play joke. Me put listening device in your Coke.

And the new one for the Chinese:

Me Chinese. Me play joke. Me put lead paint in your Coke.

They should collaborate on cleaning up the smog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21858096)

Otherwise, you'll have teenaged athletes hacking like they were eighty-year-old smokers

Doesn't make a difference. (3, Insightful)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858110)

... and that the technology left behind after the games are over could be used to track dissident elements ...
I don't think the Chinese government necessarily needs outside assistance with implementing technologies to track political dissidents. They might be pretty backward with their approach to human rights, but technologically impaired they are not. Their "Great Internet Wall of Censorship" is designed to filter the exposure of the populace to other cultures, for example. I don't think they're going to have any difficulty implementing more severe monitoring programs, with or without Western assistance.

This is not to say that it's ethical for Western security firms to help their government, but business isn't always ethical.

Re:Doesn't make a difference. (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 6 years ago | (#21869680)

the "great firewall of China" was pretty much built by US companies with approval from Congress years ago. Many Congressmen have financial ties to these companies and when they cry "think of the children" they really want their favorite censorship company to get a cushy federal law passed so their products can be forced on US companies all over.

Sorry, but the cat's out of the bag already. It's been that way for years.

Re:Doesn't make a difference. (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 6 years ago | (#21872518)

You may not believe this, but I'm in complete agreement with you. My main point isn't whether or not the U.S. is actually a shining example of free thinking, it's the fact that (as you so correctly put it) the cat is indeed already out of the bag, and all of this was inevitable. China's populace will have to be the driving force in deciding what is or isn't acceptable under their regime... my hope is that sweeping change won't have to involve a lot of bloodshed, but I'm fairly certain it will at some point.

Am I paranoid? (3, Insightful)

drspliff (652992) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858114)

Or would this be a great trial run before deployment in "the homeland". :)

no you're not paranoid .. (1)

rs232 (849320) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858216)

"Or would this be a great trial run before deployment in "the homeland". :)"

It's already deployed here, in the interests of defending us from the 'terrorist threat'. Of course none of this is going to affect terrorism, what it is directed at is stifling dissent at home, from their own citizens, a watched people is a wary one ..

was: Re:Am I paranoid?

Re:Am I paranoid? (1)

base3 (539820) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858220)

That trial run is happening in Iraq. Suspected fighters (i.e. anyone with brown skin) are retina scanned with portable units into a biometric database.

Re:Am I paranoid? (2, Insightful)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859272)

Considering anyone in Iraq has brown skin, I don't see why it was necessary to put that in. Are you insinuating that it is being done for racist reasons? I mean if it was because of racism, why not just kill them and skip the suspected parts and claim they had a gun or something and shot at them.

Indeed, I am having trouble understanding your comment.

Re:Am I paranoid? (1)

base3 (539820) | more than 6 years ago | (#21862252)

Is this your first encounter with rhetoric? Or do you really actually understand the post and are making an attempt at sarcasm?

Re:Am I paranoid? (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859756)

Yes.

The government is not out to get you. They may implement more cameras in the interest of security, but they are not trying to silence your dissidence, or intimidate you, or even track you. Ushering cameras in may make it slightly more possible for a government who will do all those things to come into power, but right now, you really are paranoid.

Re:Am I paranoid? (1)

drspliff (652992) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859894)

Not trying to track me...

Just like the congestion charging cameras in London, UK don't track you or where you go. Or how some cameras on the motorways don't track you either to judge your average speed and fine you if you go over...

You know one of the main reasons their introducing more cameras in the UK - to get rid of street crime.. by intimidating you (the randomly violent thug) into being really cautious about what you do because you're almost always on CCTV. See what I'm getting at...

Ofcourse there are two sides to the argument - you might feel safer by knowing that if a drug pushing terrorist paedophile were to assault you in the street, atleast there'll be easier to convict them [guardian.co.uk] if their ever caught [thisislondon.co.uk] ...

My point is: with a current trend of power hungry politions, leveraging whatever they have now to ensure their political ideals are on-top in future; are you sure you're happy with that?

All it takes is a little bit of c*****ship, a touch of fascism and dictatorial policy before it starts sliding - ever seen that movie V for Vendetta? :)

Re:Am I paranoid? (2, Interesting)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#21864806)

My point is: with a current trend of power hungry politions, leveraging whatever they have now to ensure their political ideals are on-top in future; are you sure you're happy with that?
Yup, I'm pretty much fine with that. Whatever repulsive-sounding thing they have to do to make the people happy, I'm fine with. So long as they don't actively hide harmful activities from the public, they can do as much bending over backwards, ass-licking, baby-kissing, mud-slinging, etc, as they like, so long as democracy works. That's all I require.

I think the whole paranoia about politicians is a bit of a strawman. The best, most reliable way to stay in power as long as possible is to just give people what they want. It's not rocket-science. A few polls here, a few focus groups there, what they ask for (especially in swinging seats), do it. All you need is the perspective to draft up policies that please the most number of people. That's what most successful politicians do. Their alleged thirst for power can be satisfied rather easily. There's no reason to go to the trouble and risk of instituting a totalitarian state. There'd be so much opposition, so few in favour of it. It would take far too much time to boil the frog slowly, because terms are short, and political layering is complex and completely against such actions. I often find that the premises for films/books like V for Vendetta are often a little too difficult to swallow.

Re:Am I paranoid? (1)

drspliff (652992) | more than 6 years ago | (#21867150)

So long as they don't actively hide harmful activities from the public, they can do as much bending over backwards, ass-licking, baby-kissing, mud-slinging, etc, as they like, so long as democracy works.
I'm just worried that democracy isn't working that well, for example in the 2003 stop the war protest in London, ~5% of the voting population turned up - in person, outside parlaimant to object to the governments actions regarding Iraq.

In this example, their actions were actively harmful and as we all later found out there was much deception going on.

If the greed of those in power (industry lobbyists via the Bush administration etc.) brings them to commit crime on an international level with no rebuttal, what happens when they start doing things that affect you?

Re:Am I paranoid? (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#21869704)

If the greed of those in power (industry lobbyists via the Bush administration etc.) brings them to commit crime on an international level with no rebuttal, what happens when they start doing things that affect you?
Then I act. I vote, I donate to the appropriate organisations, I soap-box locally, I write a letter to my local newspaper, etc, etc. I think you'll see this from kind of response from the apathetic masses when the government does something to seriously threaten their lifestyle.

Re:Am I paranoid? (1)

Nikker (749551) | more than 6 years ago | (#21863536)

"but they are not trying to silence your dissidence"

So what about my dissidence?

Slope eyed yellerbellies (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21858138)

I hate chinky's.

Congressional sanctions? (3, Insightful)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858150)

Would these be the same kind of sanctions that are still being applied to Cuba, decades after they stopped being a Russian pawn?

Honestly, the whole thing about congressional sanctions seems to be a low point on the moral landscape to me when I consider that case. Ok, perhaps relevant three or four decades ago, but still?

The idea that you can pass rules in Washington, and somehow bring about magical barriers to the kind of nastiness that can be done with technology at any levelis absurd. After all, the US (and many other countries), spent untold billions preparing high tech weapons for an expected large conventional/nuclear war, and restricted the sale of, or passing of information about, much of this technology. Then what do we find? It's actually nutbars with explosive belts and cheap guns that are the problem.

I recommend we sanction sanctions, that'll fox em..

Re:Congressional sanctions? (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858266)

But don't sanctions prevent the spread of technologies to countries we don't like? There's an impenetrable anti-technology force field emitted by Congress, transmitted via satellite uplink to unfriendly nations. All the members of Congress hold hands in a big circle, and hum the theme from Star Wars backward to activate the super-wamodyne technology impairment field.

Re:Congressional sanctions? (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859294)

Actually, it is the way the US stops people who are supposedly our friends from helping them get the tech. The main benefit is, it shows us who is really friendly and who isn't. So if war breaks out, we know who to protect and who to help.

If you think that is meaningless, then you should think again.

Re:Congressional sanctions? (1)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#21861016)

friends like, ooh, let me see, who was that guy you trained, funded, and supplied with high tech weapons again? Ossama something, wasn't it....

Re:Congressional sanctions? (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#21861290)

Why don't you come right out and say it. I mean being partly wrong by insinuating something is the same as being completely wrong by saying it outright.

The US never funded or trained Osama Bin Laden. He and his band of followers had their own funding and operated separately from the CIA supported works in the area. High tech weapons might have funneled over from joint operations but they were primarily supplied by Egyptian and Pakistani supported works.

I won't comment out how your spelling of the name is a sign of the accuracy of your post, but unless your talking about another Osama I'm not aware of, you should check this out [wikipedia.org] .

But I don't see how that would be remotely close to anything my comment was over. Osama never violated a trade sanction and was never in a position to of leadership over a country we could support in a war. And to note, supporting something or someone in the past in no way represents how the support would be in the future. Supporting the lesser of the understood evils in an attempt to conquer an evil doesn't not suggest perpetual support. So I guess your just wrong on all accounts.

Re:Congressional sanctions? (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 6 years ago | (#21866272)

Actually, it is the way the US stops people who are supposedly our friends from helping them get the tech. The main benefit is, it shows us who is really friendly and who isn't. So if war breaks out, we know who to protect and who to help.

I think that you're confusing friends and thralls. Thralls obey your every command. Friends don't, altought they might obey a request if they judge it reasonable.

The inability to understand this difference seems to be a recurring theme in US foreign policy, and is exemplified by things like Freedom Fries [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Congressional sanctions? (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 6 years ago | (#21868102)

I see what your getting at and somewhat agree. However a lot of the inability to understand this difference is an illusion created out of ignorance.

I'm glad you brought up freedom fries because this illustrates this problem perfectly. You see, France has secrete oil deals with Iraq that went against UN sanctions and were a part of a prime reasons that sanctions didn't have the effect it was supposed to have and war was an eventual outcome. And this isn't just a US sanction, it was a world wide sanction that had the support of the UN which means that even France allowed them to happen.

At a time when the US and some other countries were growing tired of Iraq's non-compliances and shenanigans, something I personally believe allowed Al Qeada to get the impression that we wouldn't do anything in retaliation to an attack against us (there is more but this is part of it). Anyways, threatening an all out war and removal from power seemed to be the only thing Saddam payed attention to. And with this threat, Iraq began complying with their disarmorment obligations and allowing inspectors unrestricted access to facilities and records. Then all the sudden we shouted too loudly and France thought they were going to lose out on their billions in secrete oil contracts but they couldn't come right out and say "don't invade, we will lose out on these deals we weren't supposed to make that were causing the UN sanctions to be ineffective". So they took this holier then now stand along with Russia who had similar deals and Germany who was ridding the wave. France said, Hey, we will veto any resolution of war. Then magically, Iraq went back to their old games thinking they were protected from action because of the leverage they had over France.

If it wasn't for France, we wouldn't have had the war. We couldn't have justified it when Iraq was working double time to get into compliance. IT wasn't until we used the threat of violence and it didn't work that we thought we needed to put some ass behind our words.

Now, we probably would stick up for France if a war ever broke out. Not because of their corruption and the messes created by it. But because of their location and closeness to friends. But that would only extend to a point were another friend might be involved. If england were to invade France of vice versa, we would go in under England's side. If china attempted to invade it, we would support France. If France wouldn't have put us in this position (I know we had a lot to do with it ourselves, but we didn't count on France being dirty and a good part of the reasons existing efforts weren't effective) in the first place, we might become neutral between them and england.

Either way, it doesn't really matter because what happened happened and we are living with it today. But you can't take their disobedience as a sign of some nobility or honor. If anything, the only thing connecting the Iraq war with oil is Frances connections in the first place and their attempts to conceal and maintain that advantage. I think Freedom fries is an appropriate action.

So yea, it might seem as if Freedom fries exemplifies the situation. And that would be true if you ignore everything else about it. Of course there are situations where you are correct and we over react to countries not supporting our causes for whatever reasons. But there are also situations where we don't care all that much anymore. Look at Cuba, I cannot but Cuban cigars in the US, I can goto Canada and bring 2 or 3 back across the border and possess them legally. We don't allow US companies to participate in trade but we don't punish Mexican companies for doing the same. You can get Coke in Cuba because of Mexico. There are all sorts of things like that. Freedom fries, I think was worth it though. Not because of Frances lack of support necessarily, but because of the reasons why they didn't support us and what that caused afterwards.

Look out for your own home first (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858234)

At least things in China are fairly obvious.

Congress has spirit? (1)

redelm (54142) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858238)

... only 80 proof!

AFAICS, the concern is military and dual-use technology, and that can adequately be covered by ITAR and EAR regs.

perhaps the radical nut cases would stop attacking (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21858288)

if yOUR home grown corepirate nazi execrable would stop all the terrifying things that they do.

no small order. curious why we're so hell-bent on self-destruction.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071229/ap_on_sc/ye_climate_records;_ylt=A0WTcVgednZHP2gB9wms0NUE [yahoo.com]

is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in.

for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it?

we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying [google.com]

dictator style micro management has never worked (for very long). it's an illness. tie that with life0cidal aggression & softwar gangster style bullying, & what do we have? a greed/fear/ego based recipe for disaster.

meanwhile, you can help to stop the bleeding (loss of life & limb);
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html [cnn.com]

the bleeding must be stopped before any healing can begin. jailing a couple of corepirate nazi hired goons would send a clear message to the rest of the world from US. any truthful look at the 'scorecard' would reveal that we are a society in decline/deep doo-doo, despite all of the scriptdead pr ?firm? generated drum beating & flag waving propaganda that we are constantly bombarded with. is it time to get real yet? please consider carefully ALL of yOUR other 'options'.

the creators will prevail. as it has always been.

corepirate nazi execrable costs outweigh benefits
(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7

as there are no benefits, just more&more death/debt & disruption. fortunately there's an 'army' of light bringers, coming yOUR way.

the little ones/innocents must/will be protected. after the big flash, ALL of yOUR imaginary 'borders' may blur a bit? for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available. 'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet, & by your behaviors. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable. some of US should consider ourselves somewhat fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate. it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc....

as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis. concern about the course of events that will occur should the life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order. 'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking nazi felon greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

meanwhile, the life0cidal philistines continue on their path of death, debt, & disruption for most of US;

gov. bush denies health care for the little ones

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/bush.veto/index.html [cnn.com]

whilst demanding/extorting billions to paint more targets on the bigger kids

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/bush.war.funding/index.html [cnn.com]

& pretending that it isn't happening here

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece [timesonline.co.uk]

all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven

(yOUR elected) president al gore (deciding not to wait for the much anticipated 'lonesome al answers yOUR questions' interview here on /.) continues to attempt to shed some light on yOUR foibles;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3046116.ece [timesonline.co.uk]

Re:perhaps the radical nut cases would stop attack (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858326)

That has got to be one of the most breathtaking troll posts I've seen in a long, long time. Who's got mod points?

Re:perhaps the radical nut cases would stop attack (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859200)

I only rate it about a 4/10.

he loses for it being just a little too long, i couldn't be fucked reading it all. a good troll needs only a paragraph or so to fuel the flames, this one was amature hour

New Olympic event (3, Funny)

xs650 (741277) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858300)

They have been hired as technical advisers for a new Olympic event. Water boarding.

Re:New Olympic event (1)

RealGrouchy (943109) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859446)

Hey, don't deride their culture just because it's different. We should cherish foreign cultures, and be thankful that having an international event like the Olympics is being held in a non-Western country, so that we can be exposed to these fascinating local customs!

- RG>

Re:New Olympic event (1)

SquirrelsUnite (1179759) | more than 6 years ago | (#21871298)

Hey, don't deride their culture just because it's different.
Different? You wish.

Re:New Olympic event (1)

sincewhen (640526) | more than 6 years ago | (#21860864)

And also the new demonstration event, the 10,000km rendition.

Selling protection (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21858318)

Same thing like the maf. And in order to get all those billions, if there aren't bad guys, we "invent" them. "bad arabs". "terrorists", etc.

Re:Selling protection (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859552)

So the london and bali bombings were all in my head, as was the anthrax letters, 9/11 and the lastest attempt in london?

The terrorist threat is very real in the context of oylmpic games, it's highly likely various organisations would love to attack it.

Re:Selling protection (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21861092)

By "london bombings" do you mean the guys that crashed a van full of cans of gasoline into something, and then when it didn't explode they lit themselves on fire?

Already in use here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21858546)

'I don't know of an intelligence-gathering operation in the world that, when given a new toy, doesn't use it'
So that would mean it's already being used to spy on Americans by the U.S. Government?

IPv6 (2, Interesting)

H3g3m0n (642800) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858562)

According to Wikipedia china is going to be using the olympics to show off their new internet systems such as IPv6 based security cameras etc...

"China plans to showcase their new CNGI and their new IPv6 networking at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Everything from the security cameras to the taxis to the cameras filming the Olympic events will be networked via IPv6; the events will be streamed live over the Internet while the networked cars will be able to grasp the traffic situation more readily."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Next_Generation_Internet [wikipedia.org]

What this means... (1)

gillbates (106458) | more than 6 years ago | (#21858950)

Is that just like IBM, etc... who sold Hollerith machines to the Nazis to assist them with their "final solution"...

The purveyors of this system are going to have to hire some smart PR folks to manage the public impression. Nothing more.

And the people who speak out against this sort of thing will be vilified as crackpots and crazies.

Re:What this means... (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859168)

you do realise everyone did business with the nazi's at some point right? the nazi's WERE a legitimate government afterall and just because they turned out to be evil bastards it doesn't mean anyone who sold them anything was helping them do that shit, so why don't you try applying logic to your arguments instead of this kind of worthless rubbish?

Re:What this means... (1)

gillbates (106458) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859358)

Okay, so I was wrong. They won't have to hire PR departments when posters like you are willing to excuse a corporation's culpability because, "Everyone else was doing it..."

You know, the interesting thing about global warming is that everybody is doing it. So why not just burn more coal, pollute the environment, etc..? Why bother holding companies responsible for their actions at all?

At some point, you have to realize that the torch has been passed to us. Our world is the way it is because we don't demand any better. If we let our rights be trampled on, we have only ourselves to blame. We have a right to demand that companies behave in ethical and responsible ways.

Re:What this means... (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859510)

Are you suggesting one party should be responsible for another parties actions?

because that's what you are dangerously close to proposing. under your logic if you handed me a stick and i poked someones eye out with it, YOU would be responsible as well.

If you want to know what's wrong with the world it's people like you that see a problem then proceed to try ram through solutions that are more dangerous then the problem to begin with.

lastly i suggest you burn your collection of Al Gore and Micheal Moore video's and go out there in such of real facts.

Re:What this means... (1)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859878)

I don't really agree with the GPP either, but I couldn't resist responding to this part:

Are you suggesting one party should be responsible for another parties actions?
Are we talking legally or morally? Legally speaking, it depends on where you live. Here in Canada, for instance, a bartender (or just a host at a party) who allows someone else to get hammered and then drive home is considered responsible if that person causes an accident. Similarly, if you sell a gun to someone who has made it clear that he wants to go murder his wife, you're going to be held partially responsible for his crime.

Do I think such laws are just? For the most part, no, but there certainly are exceptions. If you sell nuclear weapons to Osama Bin Laden, you bet your ass I'm going to want you held responsible for what he does with them.

Re:What this means... (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21860154)

i agree 100%.

if it's clear the item you are selling someone is going to hurt them or others, you should be held liable.

however, this has to be decided case by case, which the GP isn't doing. Did IBM know the nazi's would try exterminate the jews? I doubt it very much.

Re:What this means... (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 6 years ago | (#21861666)

"Did IBM know the nazi's would try exterminate the jews? I doubt it very much."

Einstein [wikipedia.org] was smart enough to work out what was going on in 1932, cheap labour capitalists from the US were a tad slow to catch on, almost 10yrs too slow in some cases.

Re:What this means... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21861340)

But then the Chinese companies and the nation as a whole are also morally wrong because we've sold so many toys and clothes to the US, whose kids may one day turn into soldiers that kill Chinese. We've bought so many hi-tech gears from the US, poured in huge profits to the US, and practically financed a big portion of the US government operations, blah blah... Should we know the US people are so much hostile and paranoid we should have never done any business with our future enemy.

Is this the message you'd like me to bring back home?

One day I was walking on the street of a small Midwestern town. Out of nowhere jumped out this guy, sticking out his hand to me, shake mine, smiled, then said, "We'll fight you some day in the future... World War Three... China is still communist isn't it?"

I simply don't understand. I'm just a poor Chinese kid studying in the US, hoping some day I'd make comparable wage, enjoy similar life as you guys in the US. I'm hardworking, and try to be nice to everyone. Our government isn't perfect, but overall speaking it has done a heck good job to keep more Chinese happy than unhappy. Has China ever invaded the US? Flew surveillance aircraft along the US border? Demand military base on the US territory? Bombed any US embassy overseas? What have we done to earn such hostility that you don't even want to sell technologies that would be used to protect your own citizens and your own government delegation to the Olympic Games?

Re:What this means... (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 6 years ago | (#21861540)

"lastly i suggest you burn your collection of Al Gore and Micheal Moore video's and go out there in such of real facts."

You know, to the rest of the fucking planet AG is simply presenting the IPCC reports [www.ipcc.ch] to a laymen audience. His nobel prize was for communicating the "real facts" as understood by science at the time. I would have thought that such geek like behaviour in a politician would be considered a GoodThingTM, but I'm probably wasting my breath since you have already shot the messenger for party political reasons.

Your problem is you belive easy answers are enough to support the status-quo, except under your logic OBL has done nothing wrong because all he did was provide a "stick".

Re:What this means... (1)

NeverVotedBush (1041088) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859550)

"the nazi's WERE a legitimate government afterall and just because they turned out to be evil bastards it doesn't mean anyone who sold them anything was helping them do that shit"

While that is probably true, what a lot of people don't know is that Prescott Bush (George W's grandfather) continued to deal with the Nazi's even after it was declared illegal by the US government. Charges were even brought against him but through power and influence, he got everything to conveniently go away.

Don't believe me and think it's just a troll? Please take a moment using your favorite search engine and look up "Prescott Nazi WWII". You might be surprised at the results.

Re:What this means... (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859664)

While i don't doubt there are people in the world that would deal with the devil to make a buck, this blanket attack on anyone who ever sold anything to the nazi's is just nonsense. and for fucks sake it was 60 years ago, they aren't the same people calling the shots, so it's bloody unfair to go tagging them with the mistakes of past generations. As with the GP's example of IBM, i'm sure if the IBM board could go back and not deal with the nazi's they would.

Re:What this means... (1)

sincewhen (640526) | more than 6 years ago | (#21860944)

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

Re:What this means... (1)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859904)

Don't believe me and think it's just a troll? Please take a moment using your favorite search engine and look up "Prescott Nazi WWII". You might be surprised at the results.
Well if Alex Jones and Webster Tarpley said it, then it MUST be true!

BTW, a bit off topic here, but I think slashdot could be greatly improved with the addition of an eye-rolling emoticon....

Re:What this means... (1)

NeverVotedBush (1041088) | more than 6 years ago | (#21860240)

(RollsEyes)

Re:What this means... (1)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859846)

Is that just like IBM, etc... who sold Hollerith machines to the Nazis to assist them with their "final solution"...
So the Chinese are Nazis? But...I though George Bush was the Nazi?

I'm so confused :( This new-age logic makes my head hurt.

religious worship and Internet cafes as locations (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859128)

The chinese do that because they aren't stupid and know that's where terrorists will go/try use as a shield.

blackwater (1)

PipoDeClown (668468) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859686)

What is "Blackwater" in Chinese?

No, my pants don't fall off on a regular basis. (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 6 years ago | (#21859870)

> "'I don't know of an intelligence-gathering operation in the world that, when given
> a new toy, doesn't use it,' said Steve Vickers, a former head of criminal intelligence
> for the Hong Kong police who now leads a consulting firm. Indeed, the autumn issue of
> the magazine of China's public security ministry prominently listed places of religious
> worship and Internet cafes as locations to install new cameras."

With all due respect, we will earn lots of money, and we won't have to look at those oppressed people thanks to the curvature of the earth, except safely on CNN. And we won't have to deal with a runaway China for several decades, minimum.

Not just china (2, Informative)

MrKaos (858439) | more than 6 years ago | (#21861650)

In Australia a whole package of laws that undermined the average aussie's freedom were passed just before the Olympics. It used to be legal to own semi-automatic rifles and it wasn't legal for our own army to point and fire at our own citizens and more without any sunset clauses.

I just wonder if it has happened anywhere else, china was repressive enough, who knows what else they will enact.

So what!! (1)

listen_to_blogs (1210278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21863160)

What's wrong with American companies making money by selling to the Chinese? Licensing technology for money is not the same as technology transfer. listen_to_slashdot [blogbard.com]

Post the names (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21864860)

of the security firms helping the Chinese.
Actually I think these security firms may be learning a few tricks from the Chinese. If fortunate, perhaps they can leave behind a few bugs. I'd be more concerned about Russian infosec firms working with the Chinese, however.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>