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KDE 4.0 Is Out

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the years-in-the-making dept.

KDE 165

Many users wrote to alert us that KDE 4.0 has been released. Here's Computerworld Australia's take on the release KDE 4.0 is based on the Qt4 toolkit, which brings significant enhancements in the way memory is used. "So it ends up making KDE less resource intensive than KDE 3, which is quite an improvement," according to Australian KDE developer Hamish Rodda, who calls the new architecture "future-proof." Computerworld notes that developers are already at work porting the new environment to Windows and the Mac.

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woo-hoo (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998006)

I've been looking forward to this showing up. It looks like they are having a bit of a challange porting it though :-(.

Oh well. It will probably show up with 4.1, which is fine, the bugfixes for missed critters will be done by then.

Re:woo-hoo (3, Informative)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998448)

I hope that they get Amarok working on Windows. That's one app that I think it miles ahead of the windows counter-part (iTunes or WMP). It has all the things that the other ones are afraid to offer. Like Automatic lyric downloads, and links to the band's Wikipedia page, that are viewable right in Amarok. Those two features make Amarok a lot better. I also like how they manage the playlists, and how they make it easier to have a temporary playlist of the current music you are listening to.

Re:woo-hoo (1)

kyofunikushimi (769712) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999398)

"That's one app that I think it miles ahead of the windows counter-part"
Not just the Windows counterparts. [IMHO] There isn't a library-based media player on ANY platform that Amarok doesn't put to shame.

Re:woo-hoo (1)

aetherspoon (72997) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000412)

http://www.foobar2000.org/ [foobar2000.org] for the win.
While I do use Amarok on my Linux boxes, I'd REALLY prefer running foobar2000, and even investigated how well it ran with Wine.

Re:woo-hoo (1)

zootm (850416) | more than 6 years ago | (#22001296)

I prefer Banshee on Linux, and foobar2000 on Windows. Banshee doesn't have quite the myriad of functions that Amarok does, but I find it a good deal more pleasant to use, and never used the advanced functionality anyway.

Re:woo-hoo (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999688)

*shrug*, I've always been an xmms/winamp fan.

I'm looking forward to multiple desktop support in windows that is better than the MSVDM, and free as in beer.

Luxury. (1)

Deagol (323173) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000282)

I'm a fan of mpg123 and shell scripts myself. It needs so few system resources it's silly. But Amarok, which I used when I ran KDE, is quite an excellent piece of software.

Re:woo-hoo (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000138)

Hmm, I sense you might not be so pleased with amarok 2; its interface is a huge step backwards IMHO, and too much like iTunes for my liking. Apparently they've also done away with support for having a massive current playlist, which completely ruins the way I've grown accustomed to listening to music. Nice to have the developers call you "stupid"...

Re:woo-hoo (2, Interesting)

lbbros (900904) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000224)

Do you realize you're talking about something that hasn't even had an alpha release? A lot may change, or may not, but there's no guarantee at this point.

Re:woo-hoo (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000436)

Yes, and I'm also aware that "don't bitch about the way the interface has looked for the last six months, it may well change completely even though the devs show absolutely no sign of doing so" has been the default excuse to anyone who expresses concern that their beloved music player is about to turn into the bastard offspring of iTunes and WMP, rather than maintaining its own identity.

All I'm doing is expressing concern about it now, before it's released. Should I wait until it's complete before I bitch about it so I can get the "...but it's finished now, why didn't you say anything when we were still developing it?" excuse? What about the functionality that I know has already been dropped?

Re:woo-hoo (1)

lbbros (900904) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000500)

No, you should wait at least until there is at least one release such as an alpha. Amarok is changing quite constantly.

Re:woo-hoo (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000904)

And then answer when it's at alpha will be the same as it's ever been. If I'm wrong, I'll even go so far as to buy a hat in order to eat it.

I've been served (5, Funny)

minginqunt (225413) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998016)

Australian KDE developer Hamish Rodda, who calls the new architecture "future-proof."

That sounds like a challenge to me.
Oh, it's on.

Love,

The Future.

Re:I've been served (1)

kellyb9 (954229) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998196)

Future-proof sounds like a bad thing.

Re:I've been served (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21998998)

Yeah. It sounds like downloading KDE 4 will turn you into Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

Re:I've been served (0)

Bandman (86149) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999270)

That would be so sweet.

Bring It. (1, Funny)

AndGodSed (968378) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998744)

Yours.

KDE.

Re:I've been served (0)

gambolt (1146363) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999806)

They use scotchguard

Re:I've been served (1, Funny)

Drooling Iguana (61479) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000578)

You may talk big, Future, but we all know you're just yesterday's news.

Why only 4 words on the main page? (5, Insightful)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998036)

I'm a keen and loyal Gnome user and a former Gnome developer.

I think the 4.0 release of KDE deserves an un-abbreviated summary on the front page.

Congratulations on this milestone guys, keep up your work.

Re:Why only 4 words on the main page? (2, Informative)

debilo (612116) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998216)

Yeah, I think so too, but at the moment KDE4 is nothing to show off, really. Most changes seem to have happened under the hood, and from a user perspective there is not much else to mention. It feels like KDE4 = KDE3 + new theme - functionality. I don't want to sound too negative, though, we were told to expect maturity with later point releases.

I hope then it'll be worth a full summary on the front page.

Re:Why only 4 words on the main page? (1)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998648)

So reducing resource usage, thereby allowing it to run smoother on a given platform, is 'nothing to show off'? The only good OS is a new, feature-bloated one you say? Well you enjoy your Aero and Vista, we will keep our KDE and Linux thank-you-very-much.

Re:Why only 4 words on the main page? (3, Insightful)

Nossie (753694) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998916)

you actually tried it yet?

from my own toying it really does seem to be quite feature incomplete ... no disrespect to KDE, they said it was incomplete and it IS incomplete ... looks like an interesting option but in its current state I'd have to say gnome had more 'options' and that's saying something!

BTW just to emphasize, I've never been a KDE fan, I'm not really a huge fan of gnome either these days ... but feature wise KDE3.x IS much more complete, they have made some great advances but I'm not sure I'd have called this a .0 release

Re:Why only 4 words on the main page? (1)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999982)

So reducing resource usage, thereby allowing it to run smoother on a given platform, is 'nothing to show off'?

This was mentioned in the summary. What do you want them to do, mention it twice in the summary?

Re:Why only 4 words on the main page? (4, Informative)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999040)

I think the summary at OSNews [osnews.com] had it right. KDE 4.0 is not KDE 4 per-se, this release represents the technology backend release (the middleware) to developers all over the world. It is from now on that developers should get attention to KDE 4.0 and start porting or writing applications for it.

Re:Why only 4 words on the main page? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21998238)

KDE 4.0 Is Out Now! would have suited you better, maybe?

I mean really, what kind of a stupid thing to bitch about is that? A Slashdot editor was actually to the point and correct at the same time, you should be buying lottery tickets right about now.

Re:Why only 4 words on the main page? (1)

apathy maybe (922212) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998262)

Probably because everyone who has been keeping up with the whole affair knows that this is going to be a buggy release, and that the next version (4.1) is going to be the actual version to use.

Personally I'm a GMONE user, so this isn't going to affect me at all. But it is still good to know that there are alternatives, especially for people who prefer there X/GNU/Linux desktop to be slightly more Windoze like.

*Insert joke about MS Windows versioning (point zero releases and all that) here.

To avoid Slashmeat accusation (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998286)

I think the 4.0 release of KDE deserves an un-abbreviated summary on the front page.
Since Andover.net brought Slashdot and Freshmeat under one corporate umbrella in about 1999, a lot of Slashdot users suggested that too-frequent reports of software releases made Slashdot look like "Slashmeat". Now, release stories often get posted to section and, once they have enough comments, automatically promoted to front page.

Re:To avoid Slashmeat accusation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21998502)

Slashmeat...that's a surprisingly appropriate word for the kind of stuff that does make the front page.

Hear! Hear! (1)

Per Abrahamsen (1397) | more than 6 years ago | (#22001110)

I use neither Gnome nor KDE, and still believe that a major release of either warrants a full article on the front page.

And I don't care that most of the changes are under the hood, this is supposed to be a nerd site after all.

Configurable? (4, Informative)

debilo (612116) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998128)

Not having tested any of the betas or release candidates, but having seen countless stunning screenshots, I was anxious to try it out. Just installed it on Kubuntu, and to my dismay I found it to be a bit of a letdown. There's hardly any options to customise the desktop/menu/taskbar or general behavior, it seems to lack most widgets found in KDE3, and I have seen no option to add your own non-officially packaged apps as an icon to the desktop/taskbar.

The menu is a bit awkward to navigate, and again there are hardly any options to change the default behavior or look. I know they promised more features for 4.1 or 4.2/3, but I was still a little shocked as to how completely barebone it felt compared to KDE3, which I will continue to use for the time being.

Anyways, I'd still like to thank the KDE team for their effort, and I'm looking forward to using KDE4 once it has been optimised.

Re:Configurable? (2)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998198)

I really liked the presentation and the way things looked in general when i tried the Kubuntu with KDE 4 RC1, however when I tried it there were some serious graphics issues especially with the widgets on my laptop (which has an intel graphics set). So hopefully they've fixed that in the last couple months because I definitely plan to try it out again! Who knows, maybe this would even be perfect for the eeePC :)

Re:Configurable? (-1, Troll)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998468)

Maybe you should get work done instead of masturbating with your desktop environment. Other than changing the background image and window color scheme, how much more diddling do you need ?

Re:Configurable? (5, Funny)

debilo (612116) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998520)

Maybe you should get work done instead of masturbating with your desktop environment. Other than changing the background image and window color scheme, how much more diddling do you need ?
Ah, a GNOME user!

Re:Configurable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22000766)

I resent the implcation! My penis is NOT small!

Re:Configurable? (3, Informative)

teslar (706653) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998796)

Well, I've been running KDE4 for about 10 Minutes now (writing this in it, in fact) and things I am missing so far (note that I may simply not have found yet) - and yes, I need them to work efficiently:
  • The ability to bind keyboard shortcuts to 'Desktop to the left/right/up/down' as well as 'move windows to the desktop to the left/right7up/down as I could under KDE3
  • The ability to get a list of all windows on all Desktops
  • The ability to resize the bottom panel to something smaller
  • The abillty to reorder the widgets in the bottom panel in a way other than removing them and then readding them where I want

Other things that I found insta-annoying:
  • My Desktop icons have become a jumbled mess on the left side of the screen
  • Moving them around somehow also MOVES the entire background (albeit in the opposite direction and to a lesser degree) - and I mean everything, icons, wallpaper and that plama thingy in the top right corner. WTF?
  • Font size for non-QT apps has somehow reduced to barely-readable

Things I insta-like:
  • Well... I do like the black taskbar, but I'd still rather set it to translucent.

Bottom line... yeah, nice work but it's simply not ready for proper usage. It feels and handles like a beta. I can't configure it so I can work efficiently in it and it's broken in places (I don't think I'm supposed to be able to shift my entire background out of the screen). Right, back to KDE3 for me now.

Re:Configurable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22001044)

I'm using the opensuse packages and I have none of those desktop icon issues.. maybe an old package on your end? The panel is exactly as you describe though.

Re:Configurable? (1)

gambolt (1146363) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999896)

I want the panel at the top. It makes much more sense to have the application menu bars and the panel all at the top so I don't have to move the mouse all over the screen.

Re:Configurable? (4, Informative)

Bralkein (685733) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998582)

Yeah, KDE4 is definitely being developed according to the "release early, release often" philosophy here. For months now the word has been that KDE 4.0 will not completely realise all of the hopes for KDE4 as a long-term project, rather it is targeted towards enthusiasts and developers. I think it's a fairly good idea, because the ball needs to get rolling in order to build activity and interest around the new platform. Aaron Seigo, a high-profile KDE developer made this blog post [blogspot.com] which clears up a lot of the confusion around this 4.0 release.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, KDE4 is still making rapid progress, and in the mean time KDE3 is still a great desktop. When KDE4 is ready for mass consumption (hopefully 4.1 will be better in this regard, scheduled for 6 months or so), the Linux distributors will pick it up and start delivering it as a supported option. Until then, this first release still shows a great deal of progress, and I think the developers can definitely justify a bit of self-satisfaction!

Re:Configurable? (2, Interesting)

lbbros (900904) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998900)

Let's quote the Plasma FAQ [kde.org] (disclaimer: I'm no KDE dev, but I wrote it):

Q. I can't my favorite [ insert feature here ]!

Don't forget that Plasma is still in its infancy (it's brand new, after all) and that KDE 3 was an extremely polished codebase: it took seven years to get to that, while Plasma had about 18 months to get to its current status. With time, the Plasma developers plan on reintroducing features that have been missing and fix regressions. As KDE progresses through the KDE4 cycle, Plasma will improve with it.

Re:Configurable? (4, Interesting)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999936)

KDE without configuration options? What's to differentiate it from GNOME?!

Yes, I am only joking. But there's no way I'm shifting to KDE4 until it has at least the level of beautiful tweakery that by beloved KDE3 has. When I tried out one of the RC's (more deserving of the "alpha" moniker if you ask me), I too was similarly astounded at the lack of options for even changing basic things like the colour of the panel (I tend to keep my desktop in neutral, low-contrast colours and the big'n'shiny'n'curvy look of the default KDE4 is about as appealing to me as regurgitating a whole lobster).

I'll also reiterate my stance on widgets - No. Fucking. Way. Why should I minimise every app I have just to be able to see an OpenGL clock or something useless? If it deserves to be treated as an app, then treat it as an app rather than desktop eye candy and give it a taskbar slot or a system tray icon. My desktop is visible for all of every three seconds every time I log in, otherwise it's covered with whatever app(s) I'm using at the time - I don't see the point in using your desktop as anything other than a workspace, your filesystem is where the eye candy (applications and files) lives.

I find Kickoff awkward; Lancelot IMHO is a much nicer K-menu replacement. I'd still like there to be an option for there to be a simple ye olde style menu as well.

I must be a bit of a luddite or something...

Re:Configurable? (1)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000264)

I'd still like there to be an option for there to be a simple ye olde style menu as well.

Lots of people do. Aaron Seigo had code for it but refused to commit it [blogspot.com] because he thought people were being mean. Quote:

i have two directories on my devel system here, one containing the start of a menu oriented display of the data models in kickoff, another which is a straight port of the kicker kmenu code.

however, in line with my recently adopted "i don't reward negative behaviour" position, due to the completely out of line missives i've received on this issue, capped by yours, it is now officially off my table. so if you want a "traditional" menu, then you make one.

Re:Configurable? (1)

lbbros (900904) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000476)

However there is a traditional menu available. Look under the Add Widgets dialog.

More than Memory (5, Informative)

Assembler (151753) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998250)

The KDE4.0 release is about so much more than memory usage!

o. Complete library overhaul
o. Complete graphical overhaul
o. Simplification (see Dolphin)
o. New desktop, taskbar, dashboard

The changes to a desktop environment don't get any bigger than that. I'm very surprised that the article summary only seems to mention memory usage.

Re:More than Memory (1)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998398)

KDE4 sounds basically like a total rewrite. They somehow did it much faster than e17. Is it because of developer/user base size?

I have been a gnome user for the longest time as I have waited for e17 to mature. But kde4 is the first version that seems to be the version to interest me the most in a long time.

KDE 4.0 is still alpha! (1)

botik32 (90185) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998940)

Well, the developers say that KDE 4.0 is far from finished:
"KDE 4.0.0 is our "will eat your children" release of KDE4, not the next release of KDE 3.5."

Speaking of which... I've been using e17 for a while. It is not feature-complete but it is use-able. And it does not crash on me like XFCE does (I'll probably get modded down for saying this...)

Anyway, I am not here to bash anyone, just wanted to put things in perspective. Enjoy your WM, whatever it is :)

Re:KDE 4.0 is still alpha! (1)

CnlPepper (140772) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999584)

What do you do that ends up killing XFCE out of interest? I've always found it to be fairly solid in both xubuntu 7.04 and xubuntu 7.10.

Re:KDE 4.0 is still alpha! (1)

botik32 (90185) | more than 6 years ago | (#22001708)

Well, it is not like it is crashing. But after running for a while (it may be minutes, it may be hours), moving the mouse would update the cursor, but apps would not respond to mouse and keyboard events. At this point even Ctrl+Alt+Bsp would not work, which is rather weird.

After changing to enlightenment, I no longer get these weird lock-ups.

Re:More than Memory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22001134)

They did it much faster than E17, and with a lot more of library-wise functionnality. While it lacks a little for now on the desktop, it's a very good development platform. E17 libs can't compare.

Re:More than Memory (1)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999632)

Does anybody else here completely dislike the idea of Dolphin? For one thing, I always thought that whoever decided that it was a good idea to make the file manager and the web-browser one and the same must have been smoking crack or similar but it doesn't look nearly as customizable as konqueror (the file manager) has in Dolphin. Is there anybody here who uses it that can enlighten me?

Re:More than Memory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22000404)

Maybe it's easier to use and less "confusing" for some people. The good thing is, it's still very easy to make Konqueror the default file manager if you prefer it - that's what I did. And from what I've understood, Konqueror as a file manager won't be deprecated in any way even though Dolphin exists.

Distribution support (2, Informative)

tonan (325152) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998338)

Looks like Kubuntu already released a CD [kubuntu.org] to install KDE 4.0 alongside your KDE 3.0. There are releases for openSUSE [opensuse.org] and Debian [debian.org] also, but it looks like other distributions are still working on it (including Fedora/Red Hat and Madriva).

PCLOS forum said: (1)

AndGodSed (968378) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999174)

From a A google search of the forums [google.co.za] and a thread [pclinuxos.com] on the PCLOS forum it would seem that they are also waiting out the storm before getting their toes wet...

Re:Distribution support (1)

Doctor Crumb (737936) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999292)

http://www.kubuntu.org/ [kubuntu.org] also has instructions for installing kde4 alongside your kde3 packages by adding a repository. You can either run the kde4 apps from within your regular kde session, or you can choose kde4 as an option from the login screen.

I just spent 20 minutes playing around with it via this method, and have seamlessly switched between kde3 and kde4 and back again.

Congratulations! (1)

andrewd18 (989408) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998370)

My congratulations go out to the KDE 4 development team. While this release may be a little rough around the edges, it's an excellent base and framework for some seriously good releases to come. Thank you!

5 out of 4 dentists agree... (0, Flamebait)

Raineer (1002750) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998372)

IT: KDE 4.0 Is Out 9 of 3 comments
Does this have anything to do with the quality of KDE?

This Could Be The Worst Thing For KDE (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21998390)

This release could well be the worst thing for the KDE project. This release is BUGGY to say the least. This release lacks feature and application support, due "real soon". This release is is a dot oh(x.0) release which is supposed to mean completed and ready but, is instead described by the countless and confusing explanations from KDE insiders as more of a beta or preview release. Stupid statements are made like; This is KDE 4.0 not KDE4. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Does that not seem slightly ambiguous to the developers? For some stupid reason, we are supposed to ignore all the short comings of this release and treat it as a beta, despite it being an x.0. This is a giant cockup!

This should have been a KDE 3.9 release. With all of its shortcomings, calling this release KDE 4.0 is going to damage KDE's reputation. It's sad really.

I won't even start about all the screen real estate that is wasted on crap borders and drop shadows...

Re:This Could Be The Worst Thing For KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21998696)

parent post is a troll

Re:This Could Be The Worst Thing For KDE (4, Insightful)

teslar (706653) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999000)

This should have been a KDE 3.9 release.
Absolutely not - KDE4.0 is a completely new thing and therefore by definition not part of the KDE 3.x family. It coexists for now in parallel with KDE3, it is not sequential improvement.

No, the sad truth is, this should have been KDE4 Beta 1. It's not finished, it's been rushed out. I like KDE and I appreciate that KDE4 is going to be very cool eventually, but this is not the time. And rushing products out before they are finished, saying that the real stuff will turn up in the .1 release, well that kinda reminds me of another company, except they call the .1 release 'Service Pack 1'.

Again, let's be clear about this - KDE4 is gonna kick some ass eventually, but releasing it in its current state has been a big mistake.

Re:This Could Be The Worst Thing For KDE (3, Insightful)

Bralkein (685733) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000162)

I used to think that, but then I changed my mind when I realised that there's a big difference between releasing something like KDE4 and something like Windows Vista or the latest version of OSX or whatever.

When Vista (just an example, I'm not bashing MS) was released, then Microsoft was having it put on store shelves, pre-installed on new computers and were generally selling it and distributing it for everybody to use. When you receive a piece of software in this way, you generally expect it to be in a complete and serviceable state, which is fair enough.

Something like KDE is different. Yes, the KDE community is very pleased with this milestone event and they are all having a party etc., but at the same time they are clearly advertising that the KDE 4.0 desktop is probably not ready for general use on most people's desktops. When your say that KDE 4.0 is released, it doesn't really mean the same sort of thing as the release of Vista, because all that's really happened is someone's created some source archives and put them on a website to download. I don't think any mainstream distribution is going to put KDE 4.0 into its repositories for general use, and as such the only people who are running KDE4 at this point are either developers or people who have gone to the effort of seeking out unsupported, community-provided packages out of their own curiosity. Most of the reactions I've seen from enthusiasts of this type have indeed confirmed that they do not believe KDE 4.0 to be ready for day-to-day use, but they're not disillusioned or upset or dissatisfied because they know that they deliberately sought out an unfinished product -- they just wanted to have a preview, really.

There is another point concerning this whole "maybe it should still be a beta" situation, which involves the distinction between KDE4 as a platform and KDE4 as a desktop environment. According to what I've read, a large part of the decision to release KDE 4.0 in the state it's in was to do with the fact that in order to end up with a complete desktop environment, there needs to be a community of developers working with the new platform. The concern was that people wouldn't want to start developing for a "beta" platform, only to have the rug pulled out from under their feet when the APIs were changed. This 4.0 release marks a stable target platform which people can start building on with confidence. It's important to realise that this isn't some sort of trick -- the libraries and frameworks underpinning KDE4 are apparently pretty complete and stable and it's mainly the applications which need the work.

Re:This Could Be The Worst Thing For KDE (5, Interesting)

teslar (706653) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000432)

at the same time they are clearly advertising that the KDE 4.0 desktop is probably not ready for general use on most people's desktops.
No, they're not. The /. crowd knows about it because enough of us read kde-devel and all the flaming between devs on whether or not to release has come up in every KDE4-related story here.

But consider Joe Average, the non-technical guy who decides to ditch Windows in favour of Linux, since he's read a few good things about it and all that. Exactly the kind of user everyone feels Linux should be targetting if it is ever to achieve critical mass. Assume for the sake of the argument, that he installs Kubuntu. His current KDE version - and he is probably aware of it, or will find out very soon - is 3.5.8. Now he visits kubuntu.com. The site tells it in no uncertain terms that "KDE4 is the start of something amazing" and to "be free with KDE4".

If that's not enough to make him install KDE4 without second thought, he can visit kde.org and learn, again, to be free and that the " KDE Project Ships Fourth Major Version of cutting edge Free Software Desktop". He also learns that The KDE 4 Libraries have seen major improvements in almost all areas. and that the KDE 4 Desktop has gained some major new capabilities. and so on. Nowhere immediately obvious does it say that it is not, in fact, ready, feature complete or stable.

So, what happens to Joe Average? He installs KDE4, tries out a few things, finds it broken in several places, not working as expected in others and not configurable where he may want it to be configurable. Compared to WinXP, it will feel to him as a significant step backwards (probably more because of the brokenness than the lack of features compared to KDE3). In the end, he'll just go back to Windows because, clearly Linux isn't there yet.

Bottom line, this should have been a Beta and it should have clearly been advertised as such, not via comments on some mailing list but clearly visible within the main announcement.

Re:This Could Be The Worst Thing For KDE (1)

dc29A (636871) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000608)

So, what happens to Joe Average? He installs KDE4, tries out a few things, finds it broken in several places, not working as expected in others and not configurable where he may want it to be configurable.
Yeah, because Joe Average spends time configuring desktops. Have you seen the Average Joe's XP desktop? Factory default settings with the Fisher Price interface.

Re:This Could Be The Worst Thing For KDE (1)

andrewd18 (989408) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000768)

If only I had mod points...

Re:but it will kick ASS (1)

brinkdale (1216888) | more than 6 years ago | (#22001016)

I think one of the main points to rush out... the release is that it gives programmers time to start porting there software for it.. thus when 4.1 or the real release, Is availible it will be leaps and bounds ahead on development .

Kubuntu. (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000582)

My guess is that the whole reason for releasing now is the desperate hope that they'll have something decent ready for Kubuntu.

And I imagine that in another few months, it's going to be better than KDE3. By that I mean functionality; KDE3 just hasn't been particularly stable for me. (The ACID3 test crashed Konqueror, and Konqueror quite frequently crashes while I'm typing comments on Slashdot...)

Duke Nukem Quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21998434)

"Damn.... KDE4 is ugly!!"
"Your face or your ass, what's the differnce."
"I'm ready to lay some bricks in some KDE 4 toilet. Who's first?"

As a happy Kubuntu 7.10 user (1)

MonsterTrimble (1205334) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998536)

I'm sticking to KDE 3.5.8. I'm surprised that they released it this early considering the reported huge amount of bugs. I mean, Canonical wouldn't release Kubuntu 8.04 as a long term release because they knew that KDE 4 wouldn't be ready for prime time and nobody will support it in 2011. On the flip side, I'm glad (to quote Meatloaf) the Monster is loose. This means that KDE can go from (IMHO) XP look to something much closer to OSX. It also means that Amarok 2.0 is one step closer to reality for my Windows box at work. I look forward to Kubuntu 8.10 (or maybe earlier) with KDE 4.x in it. And let the visual sexiness begin.

This is what, Beta 1? (0, Flamebait)

gambolt (1146363) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998628)

Wake me up when 4.1 is out. I'm going back to bed.

Re:This is what, Beta 1? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21998862)

sounds like a cron job. script it yerself.

Color me doubtful (1)

renoX (11677) | more than 6 years ago | (#21998682)

While I use KDE and like it, I doubt very much that the sentence [[KDE 4.0 is based on the Qt4 toolkit, which brings significant enhancements in the way memory is used. "So it ends up making KDE less resource intensive than KDE 3, which is quite an improvement,"]] is true: Qt4 use double buffering to provide smoother scrolling so I doubt that it's using less memory that KDE3..

I remember a blog (linked by /.) which tried to measure the memory consumption of KDE but the author failed to measure accurately the memory used (which is quite hard).

So does anyone have realistic numbers on the memory used by KDE3 and KDE4?

Re:Color me doubtful (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999266)

People have been reporting better memory usage by Qt4 since it came out, independent of KDE4

The K in KDE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21998928)

Does the K in KDE stand for Kids Desktop Environment? Because KDE has always looked like something designed for use by a child.

Re:The K in KDE (1)

Wdomburg (141264) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999624)

Originally it was Kool Desktop Environment [google.com] .

Re:The K in KDE (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 6 years ago | (#22001514)

Originally it was Kool Desktop Environment.

There's a splash screen (one of the "tip of the day" screens) for KDE startup that claims the K doesn't stand for anything at all. That said, I don't think it said anything about it never having stood for anything, just that it no longer stands for anything.

Old news? (1)

charlesbakerharris (623282) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999228)

k.d. lang 4.0 has been out for, like, a decade and a half.

I came! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21999272)

this news made me ejaculate a pine scented semen dragon which crept down my monitor until I licked it off and howled like a wolf

Re:I came! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22001148)

WTF!

Underwhelming (0, Troll)

malevolentjelly (1057140) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999362)

I downloaded a KDE4 livecd and found a slightly shinier, glossier kde3- i really wanted to be wowed. This is nothing like a gnome upgrade. :p Hell, it even felt klunky like kde usually does. The main problems with kde's seemingly accidental interface still exist: awkward menus and button placement and unnatural organization.

I am glad they got all these great new features, but it will be news when they catch up with gnome. You can make any computer (with 512 mb of ram or more) feel like a mac with gnome.

Re:Underwhelming (1)

kyofunikushimi (769712) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999602)

You can make any computer (with 512 mb of ram or more) feel like a mac with gnome

But I don't want my computer to feel like a Mac. That's why I use KDE (3.x; 4.0 IS a bit awkward ATM). Don't get me wrong, I don't hate on OSX. In respect to Usability (and UI design in general) they're (IMHO) killing every other DEBut when I bother booting up my Mac at home, I can only spend about fifteen minutes on it before I get irritated by the lack of options to customize any number of things. And Finder... oh wow I loathe that thing.

It should be noted that I definitely have issues with KDE as well, but none of those issues are in any way related to "awkward menus" or "button placement" or "unnatural organization". I'd be curious to know what you find so awkward about them?

Re:Underwhelming (1)

malevolentjelly (1057140) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000770)

I just don't think customizability is chief to usability. Unifying concepts and designs and out-of-the-box functionality are much more important- if the customizability is wide open enough that a clueless user can accidentally customize away something useful, then the design fails.

I wish I could go more into what exactly bothers me about KDE, but it's difficult. I just feel uncomfortable when I use it- something about the over-use of organizing devices (like lists pointers, font color cases, connecting lines, separating bars...) bubbliness of letters and buttons, and overall drab in the design scheme. It feels like I am seeing too many small icons at any given time, or too many options and not enough clear usage paths across my desktop. What I am NOT doing is not hidden well enough-- i.e., the functionality is not smooth enough for my usage to be visually isolated from the rest of the desktop.

I think gnome's exacting HIG is probably tantamount to its functionality.

Re:Underwhelming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21999966)

You can make any computer (with 512 mb of ram or more) feel like a mac with gnome.

How? Every time I've tried gnome, I've been amazed at how restrictive and unpolished compared to my Mac. Can I hotplug monitors and dynamically rearrange my screen layout yet, or am I still going to have to hack the xorg.conf and restart every time? How much work is it going to take to set up my 10-button Bluetooth mouse and map its buttons to various actions? Is there even a GUI for that yet?

Re:Underwhelming (1)

malevolentjelly (1057140) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000672)

How? Every time I've tried gnome, I've been amazed at how restrictive and unpolished compared to my Mac. Can I hotplug monitors and dynamically rearrange my screen layout yet, or am I still going to have to hack the xorg.conf and restart every time? How much work is it going to take to set up my 10-button Bluetooth mouse and map its buttons to various actions? Is there even a GUI for that yet?
I am talking about squares here and you are talking about cubes. I can't think of an X environment that actually competes with Windows or OS X. I'm presenting this as a comparison to KDE. As long as these environments are running in X11, they will always lag behind modern operating systems.

Re:Underwhelming (1)

g0dsp33d (849253) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000192)

You can make any computer (with 512 mb of ram or more) feel like a mac with gnome.


Wow, thanks for the warning. I was almost considering using gnome.

Re:Underwhelming (1)

marsu_k (701360) | more than 6 years ago | (#22001526)

This is nothing like a gnome upgrade.
I know - they actually implemented new features instead of removing existing ones!

totally 1337*2 (1)

neersign (956437) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999740)

i got a kick out of this and I figured it was worth pointing out since it's common place to not RTFA. I took the "visual guided tour" [kde.org] and where they talk about KRunner on the Desktop page, they give an example of using KRunner as a calculator:

KRunner also acts as a simple pocket calculator. Just type a mathematical equation in the form of "=1337*2" and KRunner instantly shows the result.
thus proving that KDE 4.0 is, without a doubt, t0t411y 1337.... *2.

Re:totally 1337*2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22000652)

The KDE3 equivalent of KRunner, KMenu -> "Run Command" (or Alt+F2) does the same thing, except that it doesn't require = in front of the equation. Not sure how long this functionality has been in KDE since I only found it several months ago myself, but it's certainly not exclusive to KDE4. Doesn't make it any less great feature though :)

Very KInteresting (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21999838)

While I am Kwight pleased with the work on the UI, I Kan't help but think some of the KNames of the applications are a bit, oh, Kontrived? Instead of naming a picture viewer something sensible and logiKal like "Image Viewer" they instead call it "GwenView" (which must be a typo, because there's no K in there at all! KBlasphemy!)

OSS needs to stop letting engineers work on the external aspects of the program. MS software is just about as bad, but at least they aren't prefixing every application with "K" on the front as a weak form of branding. It reminds me a lot of Hungarian notation, actually. And Hungarian notation largely died off among programmers because it usually fails to convey genuinely useful information. What does the K in names tell us? That it runs on KDE? Woop-de-doo...why don't we suffix the name with "Application" just to let everyone know that this program is indeed an application? Why stop there...we could split them into ConsoleApplication and GraphicalApplication.

Re:Very KInteresting (1)

Vexorian (959249) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000156)

I think your post is quite an overreaction, I don't think any serious person cares about the name of a program, and the deal is that the K itself is not a big deal. Enterprise has been using things names as retardedly as "Java" or ".net" I mean, seriously...

Re:Very KInteresting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22000352)

I think your post is quite an overreaction, I don't think any serious person cares about the name of a program, and the deal is that the K itself is not a big deal. Enterprise has been using things names as retardedly as "Java" or ".net" I mean, seriously...
How is the implementation technology in any way comparable with the name of the program? The user may be presented with the implementation technology if they don't have prerequisite components installed. The name of the program, however, is in the caption of the main window, scattered throughout the program, and in every shortcut to the program.

And if the name of the program isn't a big deal, then how come many Linux distributions opt for generic names for programs in the launch menu? And how does a name like "GwenView" not violate the principle of least surprise?

Re:Very KInteresting (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000778)

And if the name of the program isn't a big deal, then how come many Linux distributions opt for generic names for programs in the launch menu?

Because unless your name is "Internet Explorer", people won't know, just from the name, what kind of program it is. I think most of us have generally accepted names like Firefox, but unless someone already knows what it is, how would you know Firefox is a web browser? Should we just be naming the first project "Web Browser", and subsequent projects like Konqueror, iCab, etc can fade into obscurity?

And how does a name like "GwenView" not violate the principle of least surprise?

I suspect GwenView is a response to a Windows image viewer, IrfanView.

Re:Very KInteresting (1)

rastos1 (601318) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000160)

MS software is just about as bad, but at least they aren't prefixing every application with "K" on the front as a weak form of branding
Exactly. There is no Microsoft Office, Microsoft .Net, Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Exchange, Microsoft Outlook, Microsoft SQL Server, Microsoft DirectX, ...

A bit iBiased? (2, Funny)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000714)

iThink you may be just a bit iPredisposed to think of iLinux apps as having weird iNames.

Honestly, why is iCrap better than Krap?

Woop-de-doo...why don't we suffix the name with "Application" just to let everyone know that this program is indeed an application?

What program isn't an application?

Or at least, it's generally possible to know it's an Application from context; by knowing what it does. It's generally not possible to know, without the naming scheme, which desktop environment (or graphics library) a given application uses.

It gdoes make it a bit geasier to Kfigure out gwhich iApps go to Kwhich iDesktop Kenvironment.

Re:A bit iBiased? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22001624)

What program isn't an application?
Exactly my point. It is useless. And what does a K prefix tell us? That it needs KDE? Who cares about that?

I, as an imaginary user, want to get my work done. I don't care whether your program uses magic rocks or KDE in order to do what it needs to do. Actually, I don't want to know how it does what it does if it works properly. And iCrap is arguably worse than Krap. :)

Most of my disappointment comes from how OSS ends up with the same sort of factions/side-taking/branding crap. How come the classic UNIX commands didn't have prefixes like that on the front of them? And why didn't they feel a need for it?

Design looks tacky - unlike other releases. (1)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 6 years ago | (#21999872)

Can't help it but the GUI design looks shoddy. Icons to big, bad alignments across the board. The design team needs another month or two. Visually this is a beta.

Re:Design looks tacky - unlike other releases. (1)

T-Bone-T (1048702) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000328)

I agree. I find it strange that the menu in the second screenshot doesn't match the rest of the bar.

KDE 4.0 is out? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22000452)

So in Gnome in now?

Should be Beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22000466)

KDE4 RC should have been called KDE4 Alpha.

KDE4 final should be called KDE4 Beta.

Calling this a final version is a disgrace. As a loyal KDE3 user, I can safely say I have no desire to corrupgrade to KDE4 (hey, the captcha is "corrupts").

Yay, KDE4 (4, Insightful)

z0M6 (1103593) | more than 6 years ago | (#22000610)

Unlike the bunch here that cries "It should be called KDE 4.0 Beta 1", I believe that it should be called KDE 4.0. It signals that the base technology is ready and it is time for adoption by a larger mass than what the release candidates had. Remember that KDE 3.5.8 is a matured product, KDE 4.0 is not. It doesn't happen over night.

Whiners aside, yay, KDE 4.0 is here. Congratulations everyone!

I came! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22001322)

this news made me ejaculate a pine scented semen dragon which crept down my monitor until I licked it off and howled like a wolf!!

Does it require HAL? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22001364)

I had read somewhere that KDE4 would require that bloatastic XML-hell that is HAL, but I can't find any reference to it in the developer's FAQ or via a search on the TechBase site.

Does anyone know if it's true?
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