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Y2K38 Watch Starts Saturday

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the not-a-good-day-for-a-loan dept.

Bug 542

Jon Masters writes "I just wanted to remind everyone that Saturday, January 19th 2008 will mark the beginning of the 30-year countdown to the Y2K38 bug, when Unix time will overflow 32 bits. Some 30-year loan calculation software might start having problems with this over the weekend."

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And other things.. (1, Interesting)

suso (153703) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056728)

I think Boeing or some aircraft company was one of the first company to run into Y2K problems because of how they plan their building schedule or something. So they might encounter Y2K38 problems.

I always found it interesting that 1 billion seconds happened 2 days before 9/11. It never seemed to be mentioned much. I'm not trying to make conspiracy theories, but its probably one few times that an apocalyptic-like event happened so close to a man made time scale.

Re:And other things.. (5, Insightful)

Malevolent Tester (1201209) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056854)

Apocalyptic event? Last time I checked, the world was still here. Epochal, perhaps, as I suspect it will be the defining event for my generation, much like the moon landing or JFK forgetting to duck, but in the grand scheme of things it was no more apocalyptic than the 2005 tsunami.

Re:And other things.. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057472)

I think your scales are off. The 2004 tsunami was a massive loss of life (225,000 people in eleven countries) compared to the 2,999 people killed in the airplane attack of 9/11/01.

I was a little appalled at the lack of coverage and donations given to the victims of the tsunami compared to the massive outpouring given to the 9/11 victims. It must just be that fact that I am in America now, and the media / government is so stuck on only looking inside the country and not what happens in other countries (unless it involves oil).

I am also continually amazed at how the governments of the world (mainly US and UK, but others too) are using the two events (9/11 and 7/7) to push all of these "security" measures. As a child growing up during the IRA bombings, I find it easy to compare the IRA to al-Qaeda, but the reactions of the governments are way out of proportion. Never did anyone think that a national ID should be implemented, and the background checks now-a-days are beyond what is needed.

If 9/11 defines that generation, then I'm so happy to be an old fart. I never would let a terrorist act define me.

The world is still here, and it's a better place. (-1, Flamebait)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057482)

I mean, A world with 3000 less gringos has to be better.
3000 people is not nearly a start to what I call Justice, 3000 is not even 0.1% of the people the USA has killed worldwide the last century, but it's better than nothing.

Re:And other things.. (4, Insightful)

merreborn (853723) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057100)

I always found it interesting that 1 billion seconds happened 2 days before 9/11.


You can come up with any number of numerological associations for any event. Seriously. Try it some time. Pick any event, and you can come up with a dozen, if you try.

Re:And other things.. (5, Funny)

Bob-taro (996889) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057548)

You can come up with any number of numerological associations for any event. Seriously. Try it some time. Pick any event, and you can come up with a dozen, if you try.

Really?! So there are always at least 12 numerological associations with every event in history?! OMG, I'm totally freaking out!!!11!1!

What about the new 40 and 50 year loans? (1)

mikehoskins (177074) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057652)

What about the new 40 and 50 year loans?

Sooooo, isn't this, thus a non-issue, like Y2.000K?

Re:And other things.. (5, Funny)

Cajun Hell (725246) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057668)

You can come up with any number of numerological associations for any event. Seriously. Try it some time. Pick any event, and you can come up with a dozen, if you try.

Interesting that of all the numbers you could have mentioned, you just happened to pick dozen: the number of eggs that are most often sold together. This suggests you are a chicken farmer. Your uid is another clue: 853723. 8+5+3+7+2+3=28. 28 % 12 = 4, which happens to be your comment's score at the time I type this. 853723 %12 = 7. You bring your eggs to market every week.

Look at all I have learned about you. And you think numerology doesn't work.

New Bumper Sticker (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057264)


You got your Fuck Bush stickers.

Now make some Fuck Huck [rawstory.com]

2048 (1)

Kifoth (980005) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057298)

Isn't 2048 also supposed to be problematic? Binary 2047 (11111111111) into binary 2048 (100000000000) will add an extra digit.

Re:2048 (5, Insightful)

Inquisitus (937664) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057422)

Who the hell stores years as 11-bit integers?

Re:2048 (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057574)

Your mom stores years as 11-bit integers.

Re:2048 (0, Troll)

IdleTime (561841) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057424)

1 11 11 11 11 11 is not a real binary number, it is handled internally as at least 00 00 01 11 11 11 11 11 which will lead to no problems.

Re:2048 (4, Informative)

Curien (267780) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057658)

Not "real binary"? WTF are you talking about? It's either binary or it's not. And it's binary.

As for your poorly-made argument that computers use words with certain widths, just because you've never used a computer where CHAR_BIT != 8 doesn't mean they don't exist.

Re:And other things.. (5, Funny)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057458)

Yeah, kind of like how Christ was born so close to the changeover from BC to AD.

Re:And other things.. (1)

cheeseboy001 (986317) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057582)

... its probably one few times that an apocalyptic-like event happened so close to a man made time scale.
So close? It was 172800 seconds off!

Hmmmmmm (1, Funny)

LithiumX (717017) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056748)

I spell profits on the wind...

*sniffs himself*

Yeah, it's the wind.

Re:Hmmmmmm (5, Funny)

nullCRC (320940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056816)

No, that was me. Sorry.

I can't wait! (5, Funny)

ucblockhead (63650) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056772)

I plan on making a mint using my mad C skillz in 2036 and 2037, just like all those Cobol guys who came out of retirement in 1998.

Re:I can't wait! (0, Flamebait)

peragrin (659227) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057646)

If we are sill running 32 bit software in 2038 I will fully blame MSFT.

I would be surprised if 70% of the comptuers in use by 2020 would still be 32 bits. Not with most of the newer processors today at 64 bits. Experiments in 16 core 128 bit computers to toast your bread in the morning should be happening by 2020.

Now if I can find a bank open on Saturday (5, Funny)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056774)

I can get a thirty-year $250,000 loan with monthly payments of -$1,200.

Re:Now if I can find a bank open on Saturday (4, Funny)

risk one (1013529) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057104)

Just hope they're using signed ints to store that value.

Re:Now if I can find a bank open on Saturday (2)

NathanWoodruff (966362) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057376)

You can already do that today.... http://www.reversemortgage.org/ [reversemortgage.org] Nathan

The answer is 64! (1)

SeanMon (929653) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056778)

By 2038, no major consumer cpu manufacturer will be producing anything but 64 bit chips.

Re:The answer is 64! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22056986)

I was hoping for a 1024bit CPU by 2038.

Re:The answer is 64! (3, Interesting)

91degrees (207121) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057028)

They might... After all, transistor computers were up to 32 and 36 bits before the first 4-bit microprocessor was introduced. It is possible that a revolutionary new concept in processing will result in an insanely fast processor but technological limitations will force it to only be 8 bits.

Re:The answer is 64! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057072)

Please elaborate on why you think having 64-bit hardware will fix issues where software is using a 32-bit (more specifically, 31 bits plus a sign bit) integer type to represent the number of seconds since the start of 1970.

Re:The answer is 64! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057140)

You mean upgrading to a 64bit cpu won't fix all the bugs in my code? The horror!

Re:The answer is 64! (5, Interesting)

thegrassyknowl (762218) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057612)

Put simply, a lot of software is poorly written and uses int as synonymous with time_t (or somesuch). The two are often interchanged by programmers; particularly those with a Windows background who can't find CTime (or whatever it's called) on non-Windows platforms.

Moving to 64-bit machines won't fix all the magic 32-bit binaries out there but software that's recompiled for 64-bit machines will automagically use 64-bit ints where the programmer held the time in an int.

Of course, I've seen a lot dumber bugs than ignoring to use the operating system's time structures and methods for dealing with time so I don't doubt that there are some bugs that actually will need some serious considerations made.

I guess it's a fault of the Unix people from way back. They made this epoch thing and used a 32-bit number to store the number of seconds since it. I guess they were assuming that all their software would have been replaced by something better on bigger machines. They shouldn't have written such reliable software and then maybe some of it would have been replaced by now ;)

Don't forget embedded! (1, Informative)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057300)

There were approx 200 million PCs sold in 2007 and 4 billion embedded systems (1:20). Most embedded systems are still using 8-bit CPUs. A 64-bit world is still a long way off.

Re:The answer is 64! (2, Informative)

KillerBob (217953) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057434)

Considering that they were making 8-bit chips in 1972, 16-bit chips in 1979, 32-bit chips in 1986 ('386 was a 32-bit chip... SX was 32-bit internally on a 16-bit bus, and DX was 32-bit bus too), and by 1991 64-bit chips (the DEC Alpha leaps to mind). Even today, most graphics processors are 128-bit chips, and I believe there's even some 256-bit processors on the horizon for NVidia/ATI if they aren't already here. I suspect that by that time 2038 rolls around nobody will still be producing lowly 64-bit chips. Probably by that time even 256-bit chips will be considered antiques.

Re:The answer is 64! (1)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057456)


By 2038, no major consumer cpu manufacturer will be producing anything but 64 bit chips.


My good sir, by 2038, no major consumer CPU manufacturer will be producing anything but 256 bit chips. At the very least.

Re:The answer is 64! (1)

Jorophose (1062218) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057600)

Yes, but what happens to my lowly Pentium 2s?

Do you honestly think everyone's going to dump their old PCs to the curb?

(As sad as it is, I know plenty of people do this, but not geeks.)

WTF are you talking about? (0)

avandesande (143899) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056794)

"Some 30-year loan calculation software might start having problems with this over the weekend."

WTF would this have to do with an interest calculation???

Re:WTF are you talking about? (5, Insightful)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056850)

Well, its kind of hard to compute payment dates if your date representation ends at 2038, and you have something longer than a 30 year mortgage.

Re:WTF are you talking about? (3, Informative)

avandesande (143899) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057160)

Yeah, and most loan deals are put together weeks or months before closing. We would have already heard something by now.

Re:WTF are you talking about? (1)

everphilski (877346) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057332)

I haven't worked on finance software, but when you are looking at time-dependant data on satellites you don't use unix time you generally use an algorithm. There are relatively straightforward algorithms that start from a pre-defined day-one and will generate a calendar at day x in the future.

Roll-yer-own date calcs are easy (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057384)

There are many. eg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeller's_congruence [wikipedia.org]

You are not bound to use Unix dates within the program.

Many finance houses are happily dealing with dates maturing well after 2038 (eg. 50 year loans, retirement plans for 25 year olds etc).

Re:WTF are you talking about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22056864)

Last payment date, things like that.

Re:WTF are you talking about? (2, Interesting)

zulater (635326) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056894)

The raw calculation won't have a problem but maybe in displaying/storing the amortization table there could be a hiccup. You're not going to get out of your mortgage or anything but it's interesting none the less.

Re:WTF are you talking about? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056936)

"Some 30-year loan calculation software might start having problems with this over the weekend."

WTF would this have to do with an interest calculation???

Presumably, the amortization table will fall of the end of the Earth and your last payment will be due in 1970.

I must admit, I'm not going to start worrying about this stuff. Hell, that's probably longer than I'll even be alive. :-P

Cheers

Re:WTF are you talking about? (2, Interesting)

cnettel (836611) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057226)

Actually, it would probably be in 1901, since the overflow only takes place for signed ints. We'll have another bug for unsigned 32-bit ints in 2106 or so.

Re:WTF are you talking about? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057368)

Actually, it would probably be in 1901, since the overflow only takes place for signed ints. We'll have another bug for unsigned 32-bit ints in 2106 or so.

Oh, well, that changes everything ...

Run for your lives everyone, we're all gonna die!! :-P

Cheers

Re:WTF are you talking about? (2, Informative)

riseoftheindividual (1214958) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056942)

A lot of loan calculation software does more than just calculate interest rates. They can also produce payment schedules and amortization over the life of the loan, up till the last payment.

Re:WTF are you talking about? (1)

avandesande (143899) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057098)

Ever hear of 40 year loans? There is nothing 'special' about this weekend.

That's nice. (1)

riseoftheindividual (1214958) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057346)

I didn't say there was.

What loan software uses Unix time? (5, Insightful)

corsec67 (627446) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056836)

And, wouldn't 50 years or longer loan terms have shown this before now?

30 years? (4, Funny)

Hatta (162192) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056846)

Remind me again when it's 30 minutes.

Re:30 years? (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057068)

The headline is worded odly, but what they are saying is that the 30 year will be over on the 19th of this month, this year. in 4 days.

NM - I'm an idiot. (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057170)

I kept reading that damn post. It didn't make sense to me. I was like Why is this important? some part of my mind must have made a flip to try and make sense ogf the article.

Anywho..., my bad I apologize.

Re:30 years? (1)

MikeDirnt69 (1105185) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057224)

Global warming, pollution, violence, 'religion' wars, resource (oil/food/etc) wars, etc... Don't worry, nobody will see that bug happening.

Re:30 years? (1)

garett_spencley (193892) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057288)

Really. Anyone who can't upgrade their CPU from 32-bit to 64-bit with 30 minutes notice really isn't qualified to use a computer.

/ attempt_at_humour

maybe vba has a chance to live then (1, Funny)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056884)

as vba doesn't have this limitation like that child's toy they call unix

Re:maybe vba has a chance to live then (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22056996)

wow. your an idiot.

but then again you already knew that!

Re:maybe vba has a chance to live then (4, Funny)

ari_j (90255) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057164)

The phrase "your an idiot" is one of my favorites almost in the English language.

Re:maybe vba has a chance to live then (1)

KublaiKhan (522918) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056998)

However, isn't MS removing support for that? Seems to me that I'd rather use a "child's toy" for the next 30 years rather than an unsupported bit of nonsense that'll be replaced ten or fifteen times by then.

Re:maybe vba has a chance to live then (1)

daeg (828071) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057246)

I think your sarcasm detector is broken...

Re:maybe vba has a chance to live then (1)

KublaiKhan (522918) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057342)

Must be. Dang thing never works properly on Tuesdays.

Re:maybe vba has a chance to live then (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057426)

It's written in VBA.

Envy (5, Funny)

argmanah (616458) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056928)

I envy the programmers who had the foresight to program their application using a 2 digit year field. They won't have to worry have to worry about this problem until 2099, and by then we won't be using the same systems we do today anyways!

Re:Envy (1)

joker784 (741265) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057508)

Hm, that depends on which language you are using - I have seen a couple of examples of scripts that interpret numbers starting with zero as an octal number, and these scripting laguages have a hard time with 08 and 09 - saying that these numbers are not integers! Languages include Tcl, Perl and Ruby.

Re:Envy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057572)

Laugh you may but will programmers in the late '9990s get the joke?

Bah (1)

jconley (28741) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056938)

Everyone's getting 50 year loans now anyhow, there won't be a problem with the date calc.

There may be an overflow when they calculate how much interest they are paying though...

My date of birth (4, Interesting)

nogginthenog (582552) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056940)

Is 123456789, Unix time. No shit. 29 Nov 1973. Guess I'm a confirmed geek then?

Re:My date of birth (5, Funny)

scaverdilly (902859) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057248)

Yeah, but 1234567890 comes just short of Feb 14th in a year (Fri, 13 Feb 2009 23:31:30 UTC).
It just goes to show that true geeks will only ever almost get close enough to women for romanitc encounters.

Re:My date of birth (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057512)

you know your birthdate down to the second, that's impressive.

Re:My date of birth (1)

Nos. (179609) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057526)

So you were born Thu, 29 Nov 1973 15:33:09 -0600? If you're going to say you were born at 123456789 epoch time, then you are specifying down to the second.

Sounds good to me (2, Funny)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 6 years ago | (#22056958)

So long as it wipes out my 30 year loan I don't have a problem here. Now if we can get this to work on my five year car loan......

Re:Sounds good to me (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057122)

Just buy a more expensive car...

January 19, 2038 (5, Funny)

Malevolent Tester (1201209) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057016)

Is this going to affect the Duke Nukem Forever release?

No (2, Funny)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057212)

Just the Linux port of it.

64, 128, 256... (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057022)

By 2038 I'd expect everyone to be on 64-bit processors, if not 128- or 256-bit hardware. Even at 64-bits, I won't live long enough for that clock to run out, although it will make some of my favorite hobbies (counting the number of atoms in the galaxy) a lot easier.

Re:64, 128, 256... (1)

cnettel (836611) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057320)

There might still be enough file formats and other stuff where the word width is preserved, or embedded systems that people simply forget about (or where an existing design continues to be used simply because there is nothing wrong with it, except the epoch that happended to be used for the dates). It might seem like just another reason to bash MS, but a few years ago (hm, maybe it was back in 2001 or something) the RTC in my machine went awry. I didn't notice for a few hours/days (not sure), as only the date was affected. The first thing I noticed consciously was that Age of Empires II wouldn't play. When I tried to fix it, I realized that some other seemingly arbitrary things on the Windows machine didn't work. Finally, I noticed that the year was well into the 2040s. By trial and error, I concluded that most of the issues I experienced were related to the 2038 bug. Note that none of these things actualy showed as a date handling error, just sudden termination and crashes.

current debts unrepayable (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057042)

it will all be sorted out way before anyone has time to miscalculate the totals. 401 K(aput). let yOUR conscience be yOUR guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. there are still some choices to be made. if they do not suit you, consider the likely results of continuing to follow the corepirate nazi hypenosys story LIEn, whereas anything of relevance is replaced almost instantly with pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking propaganda or 'celebrity' trivia 'foam'. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on yOUR brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071229/ap_on_sc/ye_climate_records;_ylt=A0WTcVgednZHP2gB9wms0NUE [yahoo.com]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080108/ts_alt_afp/ushealthfrancemortality;_ylt=A9G_RngbRIVHsYAAfCas0NUE [yahoo.com]
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?em&ex=1199336400&en=c4b5414371631707&ei=5087%0A [nytimes.com]

is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying [google.com]

dictator style micro management has never worked (for very long). it's an illness. tie that with life0cidal aggression & softwar gangster style bullying, & what do we have? a greed/fear/ego based recipe for disaster. meanwhile, you can help to stop the bleeding (loss of life & limb);

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html [cnn.com]

the bleeding must be stopped before any healing can begin. jailing a couple of corepirate nazi hired goons would send a clear message to the rest of the world from US. any truthful look at the 'scorecard' would reveal that we are a society in decline/deep doo-doo, despite all of the scriptdead pr ?firm? generated drum beating & flag waving propaganda that we are constantly bombarded with. is it time to get real yet? please consider carefully ALL of yOUR other 'options'. the creators will prevail. as it has always been.

corepirate nazi execrable costs outweigh benefits
(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7

as there are no benefits, just more&more death/debt & disruption. fortunately there's an 'army' of light bringers, coming yOUR way. the little ones/innocents must/will be protected. after the big flash, ALL of yOUR imaginary 'borders' may blur a bit? for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available. 'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet, & by your behaviors. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable. some of US should consider ourselves somewhat fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate. it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc.... as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis. concern about the course of events that will occur should the life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order. 'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking nazi felon greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

meanwhile, the life0cidal philistines continue on their path of death, debt, & disruption for most of US. gov. bush denies health care for the little ones;

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/bush.veto/index.html [cnn.com]

whilst demanding/extorting billions to paint more targets on the bigger kids;

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/bush.war.funding/index.html [cnn.com]

& pretending that it isn't happening here;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece [timesonline.co.uk]
all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven

(yOUR elected) president al gore (deciding not to wait for the much anticipated 'lonesome al answers yOUR questions' interview here on /.) continues to attempt to shed some light on yOUR foibles. talk about reverse polarity;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3046116.ece [timesonline.co.uk]

Re:current debts unrepayable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057486)

Please don't breed.

Not that big a problem (2, Funny)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057088)

Well, applications that use dates ~26+ years ahead may have trouble, but nothing else will, since the world is going to end on 2012!

slamd64 (0, Offtopic)

normuser (1079315) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057142)

Who cares. most people have already moved to a 64bit distro and the rest will in the next thirty years.
If for some reason your still using a 32bit distro I would suggest checking out slamd64 [slamd64.com] its a 64bit version of slackware.

Hold on hold on! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057166)

What's Unix?

Unix is made of *FAIL* (2, Funny)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057168)

VMS has been Y10K-compliant for over a decade.

Re:Unix is made of *FAIL* (5, Informative)

ewilts (121990) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057504)

> VMS has been Y10K-compliant for over a decade.

It's much better than that. It's mostly DCL that has the year 9999 issue. For those of you who like history lessons and how to design real operating systems (and customer support, back when it actually existed), read this article:

  38 Why Is Wednesday November 17, 1858 The Base Time For VAX/VMS?

COMPONENT: SYSTEM TIME OP/SYS: VMS, Version 4.n

LAST TECHNICAL REVIEW: 06-APR-1988

SOURCE: Customer Support Center/Colorado Springs

QUESTION:

Why is Wednesday, November 17, 1858 the base time for VAX/VMS?

ANSWER:

November 17, 1858 is the base of the Modified Julian Day system.

The original Julian Day (JD) is used by astronomers and expressed in days
since noon January 1, 4713 B.C. This measure of time was introduced by
Joseph Scaliger in the 16th century. It is named in honor of his father,
Julius Caesar Scaliger (note that this Julian Day is different from the
Julian calendar named for the Roman Emperor Julius Caesar!).

Why 4713 BC? Scaliger traced three time cycles and found that they were
all in the first year of their cyle in 4713 B.C. The three cycles are 15,
19, and 28 years long. By multiplying these three numbers (15 * 19 * 28
= 7980), he was able to represent any date from 4713 B.C. through 3267 A.D.
The starting year was before any historical event known to him. In fact,
the Jewish calendar marks the start of the world as 3761 B.C. Today his
numbering scheme is still used by astronomers to avoid the difficulties of
converting the months of different calendars in use during different eras.

So why 1858? The Julian Day 2,400,000 just happens to be November 17, 1858.
The Modified Julian Day uses the following formula:

      MJD = JD - 2,400,000.5

The .5 changed when the day starts. Astronomers had considered it more
convenient to have their day start at noon so that nighttime observation times
fall in the middle. But they changed to conform to the commercial day.

The Modified Julian Day was adopted by the Smithsonian Astrophysical Obser-
vatory (SAO) in 1957 for satellite tracking. SAO started tracking satellites
with an 8K (non-virtual) 36-bit IBM 704 computer in 1957, when Sputnik was
launched. The Julian day was 2,435,839 on January 1, 1957. This is
11,225,377 in octal notation, which was too big to fit into an 18-bit field
(half of its standard 36-bit word). And, with only 8K of memory, no one
wanted to waste the 14 bits left over by keeping the Julian Day in its own
36-bit word. However, they also needed to track hours and minutes, for which
18 bits gave enough accuracy. So, they decided to keep the number of days in
the left 18 bits and the hours and minutes in the right 18 bits of a word.

Eighteen bits would allow the Modified Julian Day (the SAO day) to grow as
large as 262,143 ((2 ** 18) - 1). From Nov. 17, 1858, this allowed for seven
centuries. Using only 17 bits, the date could possibly grow only as large as
131,071, but this still covers 3 centuries, as well as leaving the possibility
of representing negative time. The year 1858 preceded the oldest star catalog
in use at SAO, which also avoided having to use negative time in any of the
satellite tracking calculations.

This base time of Nov. 17, 1858 has since been used by TOPS-10, TOPS-20, and
VAX/VMS. Given this base date, the 100 nanosecond granularity implemented
within VAX/VMS, and the 63-bit absolute time representation (the sign bit must
be clear), VMS should have no trouble with time until:

      31-JUL-31086 02:48:05.47

At this time, all clocks and time-keeping operations within VMS will suddenly
stop, as system time values go negative.

Note that all time display and manipulation routines within VMS allow for
only 4 digits within the 'YEAR' field. We expect this to be corrected in
a future release of VAX/VMS sometime prior to 31-DEC-9999.

Re:Unix is made of *FAIL* (5, Funny)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057558)

As a coincidence, nobody has actually used VMS in over a decade.

Re:Unix is made of *FAIL* (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057626)

Yeah, but just you wait and see....VMS will succumb to to Y100K bug! Oh, wait...

End of the world (2, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057196)

Lots of over priced consultants will charge a fortune to fix a problem we negated years ago, then when the day comes and nothing happens they will claim it's a resounding success.

2038!?!! (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057210)

by the time 2038 gets here i will be 76 years old (too old to care anymore), i don't want to think that far in to the future...

Re:2038!?!! (3, Funny)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057326)

Yep it is last my retirment date as well.
Doesn't matter since I hard code all my programs to fail on my 70th birthday anyway.
Just kidding.

Re:2038!?!! (4, Funny)

mwburden (134847) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057554)

At least until your pacemaker calculates that it doesn't need to beat again for 30 years....

I wonder... (1)

phsdeadc0.de (1166597) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057222)

...if people asked similar questions in the 80s.

Of course they did. (1)

Eevee (535658) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057578)

I can remember coming across a book about the entire Y2K thing back in the late '70s, filled with both dire warnings and algorithms. And I remember thinking, "Jeez, that's over 20 years away. Nobody's going to be using any software around today that far in the future."

Incorrect.... (4, Informative)

gweihir (88907) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057232)

Older flavours of Unix will wrap-around on 32 bit int. More modern systems use time_t instead of int and may or may not be affected by the problem. time_t can be unsigend (which gives another 68 years) or long long int/long long unsigned (which are both 64 bit long). In any case, fixing the basis library and recompileing is enough for properly implemented software.

Not an program problem, but a file format ditto (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057244)

Before we get anywhere near 2038, you'll have to search a while for 32-bit hardware.
Maybe your dishwasher will have one, maybe not.

So there problem is not with programs. It is with file formats.

Several file formats, notably gzip and tar [if memory serves] contain 4-byte time
stamps. These file formats need to be upgraded well before then. Or else.

--Morten

Y2K38??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057290)

How about Y2.038K instead.

And for the nitwits who think everything's okay because by Y2.038K everything will be 64-bit: banks are computing 30 mortgages today.

And BTW, banks have been computing 40 year mortgages since 1998, so maybe it's not such a big deal after all.

I don't give a shit (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057394)

I don't give a shit. And I mean that in the most literal, non-idiomatic way. If I had a pile of turds in my back yard, and you were to walk up to me and say, "Excuse me, sir, if you would let me relieve you of one of these useless pieces of feces I could guarantee a resolution to the Y2K38 computer issue," I would simply reply, "I'm sorry, but those are my shits, and I'm not giving one."

   

hmmmm (1)

DCTooTall (870500) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057428)

So are we saying that the fact that all these loan companies are failing or are in trouble now is because of a software bug and not because people can't pay their bills?

Need to fix it now! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22057430)

This needs to be fixed now. Embedded systems can have a long lifetime (think building thermostats, alarm systems, industrial control systems and other infrastructure). The Y2K problem was a tremendous failure of the engineering and computing professions to react to a known problem. The Unix/Linux world should not repeat that mistake.

What's the prevalence of use? (3, Insightful)

wytcld (179112) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057440)

Most often when I've set up date fields in databases, I've used the YYYYMMDD format (e.g. 20080115, YYMMDDHHMMSS of course is also an option). The simple regex to construct it and read it is barely more code than translating in and out of Unix timestamps, and there's the great advantage that the dates are human-readable in the tables, and ad hoc queries are easily constructed. So I should be good until the year 10,000. Am I the only one? It's always seemed the obvious best way to do it.

It's a non issue. (2, Funny)

Higaran (835598) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057492)

The mayan calendar ends in 2011 or 2012, I cant remember off the top of my head, so thats supposed to be the end of the world from what conspiary theoriests say, so that means the world will end 20+ years before this ever happens, so who cares ;)

Why is this a problem? (3, Insightful)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057524)

This is nothing like the two-digit date problem of Y2K. The conversion process shouldn't be anywhere near as complicated, since 32bit dates are just an arbitrary subset of a larger bit-count dates. There are really only two cases, signed and unsigned, and casting things into larger containers isn't exactly all that difficult: if unsigned, stick a bunch of zeros on the front. If signed, stick a bunch of zeros on the front, then swap the previous MSB with the new MSB.

Furthermore, C programmers haven't exactly become a rare commodity in the intervening time like with COBOL. Y2K wasn't a problem, so why should we expect Y2K+38 to be a problem?

are you like those Moscone Center ridiots? (1)

peter303 (12292) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057590)

People lining up all night to get into Job's keynote address?
Some people worry too much.

your payments will be $1453 a month... (1)

swschrad (312009) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057634)

EXCEPT for january 2038, when you have a payment of $126,347,883.39 and escrow due of $998,554,073.18.

please make a note for your records.

thank you.

FOSS Mortgage Co.

Here we go again, year2038.pl (4, Informative)

quarkie68 (1018634) | more than 6 years ago | (#22057666)

#!/usr/bin/perl
# (or wherever your camel lives)
#Copyleft (just joking!) Georgie http://folk.uio.no/georgios
use POSIX;
use strict;

$ENV{'TZ'} = "GMT";
# GMT for preference
print "And the transition will be like...\n";
for (my $clock = 2147483646; $clock < 2147483650; $clock++)
{
    print ctime($clock);
}

chomp(my $conclusion=ctime(2147483650));
if ( $conclusion=~ /1901$/) {
        print "Which means that you are bugged by 32 bits. We have 64 bit processors and structures now you know!\n";} else {
        print "You will survive for now. Go and get a beer. \n";}
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