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Environmental DVD Wrecks Apple Drives

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the look-before-you-leap dept.

Media 459

FST777 writes "The British Mail on Sunday published its latest DVD giveaway on the EcoDisc, a thin and bendable DVD format that is supposed to be more environmentally-friendly than regular DVDs. Despite the clear warning against using them in Apple slot drives, some Mac users decided to give it a go. The result? A brisk trade for repair shops in the UK. 'The EcoDisc's manufacturer, ODS, insists the disc won't break drives. "We've produced over ten million of these discs — we've had less than a dozen phone calls," says managing director, Ray Wheeler. "There are ways to get the discs out." Wheeler says the problem stems from Apple's slot-loading drives. "It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum." He claims the EcoDisc should work in other types of slot-loading drive, although admits that it hasn't been tested in the PlayStation 3.'"

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Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (5, Funny)

Bryansix (761547) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083088)

Just throw the whole computer out and buy a new one!

Nelson points and says "Haha!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083152)

Obligatory Simpson's quote:

Haha!
Seriously, even Apple users I know rant about their slot loading Macs (you can pry my tray loading Imac G3 from my cold, dead fingers). Of course, I still think the Ecodisk (I refuse to use camel case) is a really stupid idea. Both ideas were stupid. All disks should be of standard size. The British Mail should have not used these disks. If Global Warming did exist, I wonder what the carbon footprint of these repairs was?

Sincerely,
Tony Snow

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (5, Funny)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083278)

Seriously, even Apple users I know rant about their slot loading Macs (you can pry my tray loading Imac G3 from my cold, dead fingers). Both ideas were stupid.

Actually, the Apple slot-loading drive was a response to durability problems experienced by students when they used Mac laptops. Apparently kids were liable to snap the DVD tray right off the laptop. (Not good.) So it wasn't a stupid idea. More like an attempt to balance out a variety of needs.

That being said, you could always get a MacBook Air. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of an optical drive. ;-)

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (3, Insightful)

rootofevil (188401) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083320)

That being said, you could always get a MacBook Air. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of an optical drive. ;-)

That being said, you could always get an iMac. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of a floppy drive.

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (4, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083410)

Indeed. Remind me, what was the point of that?

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (1)

MacColossus (932054) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083688)

Or you could get a Dell. Nothing says high technology like a lack of a floppy drive. Or you could get a HP. Nothing says high technology like a complete lack of a floppy drive. Or you can keep using floppies and come crying to me when they fail as they often do and I will boot up my old turd Compaq and Bad Copy Pro to save your ignorant bottom.

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (1)

Have Blue (616) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083406)

I've heard the opposite- that slot-load drives are bad for schools because kids like to stick things in them.

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (2, Insightful)

Firehed (942385) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083482)

That's a problem for elementary schools, not colleges.

Well, it's a problem for high schools too, but that's because it's school computers and HS students tend to be dicks when it comes to other people's property. That issue applies to both slot- and tray-loading drives, though.

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083508)

But once you open a tray loading drive, there is a much bigger hole to put stuff in to...
People who want to vandalise equipment will always find a way to do so.

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (1)

i.r.id10t (595143) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083524)

Not sure about school age, but my 4 year old son (who is the size of a 6 year old... he towers over some kids in his older sister's 2nd grade class) managed to get *10* discs into the slot loading drive of the iMac I have set up for the kids to use.

Funny thing is that the drive still works, but only reading the outside half of a disc. So CD isos get burned to DVDs and I can read all of 'em, install from 'em, etc. but not CD images on a CD or a DVD image on a DVD - only get about half way thru it...

"I've heard the opposite..." (4, Funny)

tlambert (566799) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083610)

"I've heard the opposite- that slot-load drives are bad for schools because kids like to stick things in them."

And I've heard that what they stick in the slots is pieces of the trays they snap off from other machines that have (had?) tray loading drives.

-- Terry

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083732)

CD drives on all laptops have seemed a bit flimsy. Why are all laptop drives spring-loaded trays rather than the motor driven trays used in other tray drives?

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (-1, Offtopic)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083740)

Okay, that's fair. I'll give you that. A slot loading drive: great idea, great interface, great design.

Now we're going to list BAD interface designs on the MacBook:

-email client: Why the hell are the subject lines all darkened? Nothing in help about this. Ah, must be a "mail rule". Oh, there it is, I'll just turn it off. Wait, that option is all the way at the bottom of the screen, on top of the program launch icons. *click* No, I didn't want to load that program. Okay, I'll scroll down so that the button is in the middle screen and I can click it without launching another app. Wait, no scroll option? ****! Okay, how do I turn the lower app launch bar off? *search search search* Okay, there we go. Wait, they're still darkened. Oh, okay, I've got to tell it to apply to all. [finds option somewhere] Now, how do I get the bottom bar to come back...

-iMovie: I want to export some video captures from a video I made. Let's see, right click on the point in the video I want to use, where's the export-frame option? Nowhere. Okay, help search: "video capture". Nothing. Okay, "frame". Ahah, 8th option, how to make a frame into a clip. Closest option. I go to the frame I want and then ctrl-click it. Hm, OH, wait, I can right-click too! Why hide this option from me? Oh yes, I forgot: people who prefer using one hand (or are disabled losers) need not apply.

I grab the frame, and it makes me put it as a non-moving clip somewhere in the video. So, I do a few of these from different pictures. Now where are they? Okay, I get to dig through finder again. Now, let me move them all to one folder for easy upload. Wait, the second one I moved (and the rest) have the same name as the first. Okay, so let me choose a different name on moving it. I can't? Okay, fine, I'll rename them all, THEN move them.

-I took a photo of myself in PhotoBooth. Now I want to crop it and upload it. Okay, click on iPhoto. Crop image. Great, now I have it in an album. But where's the picture file? Um, show-in-Finder option? Nope. Save cropped picture somewhere? Nope. I have to go deep into the directory, photos->iphoto library->various weird folder -> copy it to a more useful place, then upload.

-Now I want to make the cropped image my ichat buddy icon. Drag to chat pic? No, that would imply interoperability. Export to ichat? No. I have to go to the buddy icon and then load it from the useful place I moved it to.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (4, Insightful)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083178)

Simple Fixes for Simple People.

Who takes an unknown disc that they find in a newspaper and sticks it into their machine without so much as reading the cover? It says right on the thing, don't use it in a Mac. Then they want to complain?

Bunch of Flakes.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (4, Insightful)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083280)

I don't know if you have noticed or not, but many CDs that are distributed today do not contain the "Compact Disk" logo. Back when DRM started, manufacturers started putting blank sectors and other stuff to try to thwart copying. Poeople started complaining about this as those disks no longer conformed to the "Compact Disk" Specification.

The companies that were producing these disks just dropped the logo, going under the assumtion that if is was the same size as a CD and had a shiny bottom, that people would put it in thier CD players, and people did just that.

To most people a CD is defined as "something that is about 5 inches across and has a shiny bottom. If I put it in my computer something happens."

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (-1, Troll)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083324)

Bullshit. That fiasco with Sony installing rootkits on peoples machines was common knowledge. If that didn't slap you in the face and wake you up to the dangers of inserting unknown media into your computer, well, this is just the sort of abuse you have to suffer with for being a moron in the modern world.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (3, Insightful)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083346)

Does you mom know about that Sony rootkit? How about your sister? Just because everyone on /. knows about does not mean that it is common knowledge.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (-1, Offtopic)

Arthur B. (806360) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083510)

I don't know about that but everyone on /. knows your mom.
(sorry that was gratuitous)

(did she say)

They didn't just drop the logo... (3, Informative)

Klaus_1250 (987230) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083502)

The companies that were producing these disks just dropped the logo...
They didn't, not until they were hit by class-action lawsuits and Philips reminded them that using the Compact Disc logo without permission (e.g. conforming to the Red Book standard) constituted to Trademark infringement and they were prepared to sue.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (0, Troll)

hcmtnbiker (925661) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083544)

The companies that were producing these disks just dropped the logo, going under the assumtion that if is was the same size as a CD and had a shiny bottom, that people would put it in thier CD players, and people did just that.

To most people a CD is defined as "something that is about 5 inches across and has a shiny bottom. If I put it in my computer something happens."


As a matter of fact, that pretty much is the definition of a Compact Disc(c) [wikipedia.org] . Compact Disk does include such things as discs with SecuROM and other DRM. But for the most part the standard is only what the disc is physically, not what's on it. The main reason people stopped with the Compact Disc(c) logo, is they had to shovel off a couple pennies to Sony each time they printed it, and that wasn't worth it.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083762)

I don't know if you have noticed or not, but many CDs that are distributed today do not contain the "Compact Disk" logo. Back when DRM started, manufacturers started putting blank sectors and other stuff to try to thwart copying. Poeople started complaining about this as those disks no longer conformed to the "Compact Disk" Specification.

The companies that were producing these disks just dropped the logo, going under the assumtion that if is was the same size as a CD and had a shiny bottom, that people would put it in thier CD players, and people did just that.

To most people a CD is defined as "something that is about 5 inches across and has a shiny bottom. If I put it in my computer something happens."
----------

OH SNAP, I just copied your whole comment! Now what?

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (1)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083706)

Years ago my uncle related a story to my father and I about his work at tech support for Data-Com warehouse, which one season jumped drastically. See the company as a whole (Macwarehouse, PCwarehouse, etc) started as a gift bundling in floppies that where calculators in disguised.

Sure enough hundreds of misguided buyers put said disks into their floppy dirves which then broke.

So to answer your question, hundreds if not thousands of idiots would take a disk from their paper and stick it into their drives without a thought to the damage they could cause.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (2, Insightful)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083228)

Just throw the whole computer out and buy a new one!
I realize that you're trying to be funny, but in all seriousness, slot-loading drives that don't conform to the DVD Forum standard were a very, very bad idea on Apple's part. Fortunately for Mac fans, not all Macs have these slot-loading drives.

I don't imagine anyone's going to trash their Mac for a few EcoDiscs, but still, it's a bit unsettling that the drives don't properly conform to standard.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083332)

Wheeler says the problem stems from Apple's slot-loading drives. "It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum."
This is exactly why I have never bought an apple product (was given my iPod). They don't abide by standards. They are just like Microsoft in that sense except with a cult following.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (0, Offtopic)

JDHannan (786636) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083532)

Why did you feel the need to qualify your ownership of an iPod, when you posted as an anonymous coward anyway?

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (4, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083710)

Why did you feel the need to qualify your ownership of an iPod, when you posted as an anonymous coward anyway?
Maybe because he's just telling the truth. Frankly, if I were criticizing Apple, no matter how legitimate the complaint is, I'd post anonymously too. Case in point: The guy says Apple doesn't abide by standards, your reply is an unrelated nitpick about his post.

I'll bet his post has a -1 by the end of the day.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (1)

MacColossus (932054) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083726)

Do not throw the computer in the trash. This article is about being environmentally friendly. Contact me to ship your Mac to me for "recycling".

But it helps the earth (0, Flamebait)

Kohath (38547) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083096)

It wrecks your drive, but it's good for the earth. Sounds normal for environmentalism. Sure it makes your life worse, but think of how much it helps the earth!

Re:But it helps the earth (3, Funny)

xannash (861526) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083252)

It wrecks your drive, but it's good for the earth
But it's ultimately bad for the earth because you have to get a new drive to replace the old drive that was ruined, which is then dumped, causing demand to go up, increasing global warming, bringing earth even closer to Armageddon, after which only cockroaches and old Honda trail bikes will exist, the few humans that do remain will be abducted by aliens and forced into slavery in some asteroid mine in the Omega galaxy.

Greenpeace??? (-1, Flamebait)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083100)

Is Greenpeace against computers now too?

apple slot loader (1)

sankekur (998708) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083108)

They do not work very well with anything that even slightly varies from a regular CD/DVD. At the high school I used to work at, kids and teachers would put the business card, heart shaped and all kinds of things in the slot loader on the iMacs there.

Re:apple slot loader (1)

CheshireCatCO (185193) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083164)

So you're saying that inserting objects never meant for the drive is bad?

How do they handle hot soup?

Re:apple slot loader (1)

OddThinking (1078509) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083260)

I believe the GP was referring to alternative CD/DVD shapes.

Re:apple slot loader (2, Informative)

lexarius (560925) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083292)

I believe he's referring to custom-sized CDs, the most common of which are the mini CD and the business card CD. It's a CD that has approximately the shape of a business card. The US Navy once sent me promotional materials on one. Other companies have been known to make weirdly shaped discs (like hearts) for novelty purposes as well. All of these work fine in tray drives, but slot loaders, not so much.

Re:apple slot loader (2, Informative)

someguy456 (607900) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083308)

So you're saying that inserting objects never meant for the drive is bad?
How do they handle hot soup?


Maybe he's referring to actual CD's shaped like business cards and hearts [proactionmedia.com] ?

/how 'bout them apples?

Re:apple slot loader (4, Funny)

emag (4640) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083644)

/how 'bout them apples?


Haven't you been reading? They don't work in them apples either...

Serves them right (2, Funny)

Malevolent Tester (1201209) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083112)

For reading the Mail on Sunday. Apple users should go for the Guardian's mixture of smugness, cult like atmosphere and complete indifference to reality.

The problem is... (1)

Endloser (1170279) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083118)

The arrogant Apple drive is superior to the disc.

Now don't forget (1)

Shaito (1160549) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083122)

It's not wrecking everyones drives, just selected Macs.

Re:Now don't forget (4, Funny)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083146)

We in the industry call that a "feature".

Re:Now don't forget (1)

The Faywood Assassin (542375) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083452)

In biology, we call this "natural selection".

Re:Now don't forget (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083662)

I guess Greenpeace was right. Apple isn't environmentally friendly.

pot, meet kettle (3, Insightful)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083128)

"It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum."

And these new discs do?

Re:pot, meet kettle (5, Funny)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083168)

Discs don't have ejection systems, so no.

Rob

Re:pot, meet kettle (4, Informative)

Sen.NullProcPntr (855073) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083348)

A little more info from OSD's [ods.com] ecodisk PDF:

"Some Matshita Computer Slot-in drives (used in Apple computers) do not follow the DVD forum specifications (by omitting the guide shafts) and thus it might happen that the EcoDisc will not be ejected at first trial, or has to be removed manually"
Nothing in the document says that the disk meets any standard.
But it does state that "ODS has applied for 4 patents up to now" so it must be good(TM).

Re:pot, meet kettle (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083622)

The point of this project is to create a new type of disks with significantly different properties that will work in existing drives. Of course the disks don't meet the DVD standard, and of course when they designed the disk to work with existing drives, they designed around the standard and the most popular drives.
          If you were designing a new type of liquid fuel to work in existing cars, you would make a fuel that doesn't follow existing formulations of gasoline and make sure it works to replace normal, unleaded fuel. You wouldn't make sure it also works to power go-carts that were designed to run on methanol.
          The slot drive is another choice in place only because it sets Macs apart, and like many of those choices, it is vastly inferior to the non-Mac options.

Problem Solved! (5, Funny)

goatpunch (668594) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083136)

Apple has solved this problem by releasing the MacBook Air without a DVD drive built in- it's much easier to throw away and replace a USB accessory.

Re:Problem Solved! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083206)

the problem is that Apple users are retards. There's no solving that. About the best you can hope for is (a) identify them [the easiest way is to whip out Steve Job's cock -- they're attracted to it like a magnet] and (b) quarantine them.

Idiot tax for jumpy Mail readers (3, Informative)

Peter Cooper (660482) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083150)

On the plus side, this is a good form of idiot tax. This might not make sense to non-British readers but the Mail has, let's say, a certain reputation [wikipedia.org] in the UK for its readership being most of Britain's jumpy, middle class, alarmist, conservative, "immigration is evil and all non-white immigrants should be castrated" type readers.

Re:Idiot tax for jumpy Mail readers (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083216)

It still doesn't make sense; how many conservatives do you seriously think own Apple computers?

Rob

Re:Idiot tax for jumpy Mail readers (0, Offtopic)

peragrin (659227) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083364)

American Rush Limbaugh is one the loudest non paid apple supporters out there. Bush has been known to carry an iPod, I don't know which computer he uses though.

Oddly enough Al Gore is also one.

Basically if you have a little extra cash and don't mind paying for quailty hardware there is a greater chance of one being a Mac Fan.

Re:Idiot tax for jumpy Mail readers (1)

contrapunctus (907549) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083526)

I think mac software is the reason people own mac hardware not the other way around.

Re:Idiot tax for jumpy Mail readers (2, Funny)

ettlz (639203) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083262)

the Mail has, let's say, a certain reputation in the UK for its readership being most of Britain's jumpy, middle class, alarmist, conservative, "immigration is evil and all non-white immigrants should be castrated" type readers.
Yeah, but it's good for a laugh though, in'it?

Re:Idiot tax for jumpy Mail readers (0, Troll)

riseoftheindividual (1214958) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083344)

middle class, alarmist, conservative, "immigration is evil and all non-white immigrants should be castrated" type readers.

Wow, you have republicans in Britain?

Ha, ha, HA! (0, Troll)

eyenot (102141) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083158)

GOOOOD! >8{}

Well... (1)

jrothwell97 (968062) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083186)

if it's bendable, then it kind of defeats the object. While those users were stupid to try and fit it in a slot-loading drive, CDs should be rigid so that they work in these things. Also, the amount of CD drives this will ruin could balance against the environmental benefits of the DVD.

Either way, this was given away in the Daily Mail, which seems to forget that slot-loading drives exist outside Macintosh computers. This is the same paper that seems to think that you can author an A-level media studies course on an iPod, and could therefore pass while being illiterate [sjhoward.co.uk] .

RTFA (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083282)

The EcoDisc works in other slot-loading drives. It even says that in the summary.

Rob

Re:Well... (4, Insightful)

DingerX (847589) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083340)

Yes, non-Macintoshes have them, I suppose. But what about what happens when you put a regular bad CD into the drive? On a Mac, you can always eject the disk by going to the Disk Manager (whatever that thing is called). Unless, of course, the CD is bad, then the disk manager won't necessarily load. No problem, just hold down one of those funky keys while selecting "restart." That will work, provided the disk isn't bad.

Well, you can always boot the machine into console and issue a direct "eject disk" command.

But then, of course, you'd say it was the user's fault for not knowing the disk was bad before inserting it.

This will be fun: Non-standard DVD player and an unusual DVD. Does the DVD adhere to appropriate standards, in which case, we can all gloat that the stylish and disposable Mac du jour falls victim to its own preciousness, or is this a matter of shared liability?

I wish I had mod points... (1)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083440)

I wish I had mod points, but that is funny... I have a hard time describing this, but it is one of those situations where you reply with a comment that just leaves the other debating person in silence... A sort of cynical smugness...

Who is out of specs again? (5, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083222)

Wheeler says the problem stems from Apple's slot-loading drives. "It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum."
So the drives are out of specs. Yet the DVD Forum's specs allow for thin and bendable discs? Doubt it.

Re:Who is out of specs again? (2, Insightful)

jesdynf (42915) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083438)

I'm not sure I understand. "Our product X is designed to work with and has been confirmed to work with everything approved by universally-accepted standards body Y." This is an absolute defense, is it not? Whether X has been approved by the standards body seems irrelevant to me -- non-complying product Z is out of spec, and must accept the slings and arrows of uncaring vendors as part of the bargain.

Re:Who is out of specs again? (5, Insightful)

timster (32400) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083558)

I think it's more like this: Product A isn't compliant to standard X, but works with all products conforming to standard X. Product B also works with all products conforming to standard X, but is also noncompliant itself. And now it so happens that Product A and Product B don't work together, and the makers of Product B are blaming the makers of Product A.

Re:Who is out of specs again? (2, Insightful)

kebes (861706) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083606)

I'm not sure I understand. "Our product X is designed to work with and has been confirmed to work with everything approved by universally-accepted standards body Y." This is an absolute defense, is it not? Whether X has been approved by the standards body seems irrelevant to me -- non-complying product Z is out of spec, and must accept the slings and arrows of uncaring vendors as part of the bargain.
Let me ask you this: is the "X" in your hypothetical Apple's drive or the bendable CD? See the problem? When two "X" (non-complying products) interact, it doesn't always work. They can both claim "X" (we work with everything approved), but they are both really Z (out of spec).

That's the point of adhering to a standard: everything works because each half of the interface is complying with the same pre-arranged rules. One product can deviate from the spec, and maybe it's no big deal... but only so long as everyone else follows the spec.

So it is not an absolute defense to say "we are compatible with everything that follows the spec." Only following the spec itself is actually a defense, and this case shows exactly why. In short, both Apple's drive and the bendable CD ignore the spec. They are both at fault.

Re:Who is out of specs again? (1)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083500)

The discs are non-compilant for a good reason reason - they aim at being environment-friendly - thin means less material used, bendable means won't break as it would being thinner and not bendable.

OTOH The Apple's drives are non-compilant for no good reason whatsoever.

Matsushita (1)

Quila (201335) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083696)

Matsushita was part of the consortium behind the DVD spec. I find it hard to believe they make non-compliant drives.

environmental friendliness (5, Insightful)

fred fleenblat (463628) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083226)

The environmentally friendly thing to do would be to have NO disc at all. Just point people at a download site and let them get the disk image from the tubes using zero plastics, chemicals, landfill, or other resources in the process.

Re:environmental friendliness (5, Insightful)

pclminion (145572) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083272)

Because the Internet doesn't use any electrical power?

I agree that it's probably more efficient to download data instead of burning it on DVD and distributing it that way, but by how much?

Re:environmental friendliness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083336)

Oh, seven or eight orders of magnitude, tops.

Re:environmental friendliness (1)

pclminion (145572) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083468)

I understand that the difference is probably great. I am wondering whether somebody has ever bothered measuring it as precisely as possible.

Re:environmental friendliness (1)

Alioth (221270) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083472)

Well, it's not that the intertubes uses no power, but the internet will be powered up and will use pretty much the same amount of power whether the files were downloaded or not. So the incremental energy use of distributing this material over the intertubes is likely a lot lower.

Re:environmental friendliness (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083474)

Well many of the internet servers are kinda always on with trafic or with out. So basicly all the middle stuff doen't count. The servers hosting the program will be split by the theoretical amount of CD shipped. So the endergy to make a disk vs. having A PC one for the extra time it takes to download it... I think the Download will win. There is the heat to melt plastic, and metals, spinning moters etc....

Re:environmental friendliness (1)

pclminion (145572) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083538)

Okay, but there are other factors. Consider the power used by the PC during the download. A 4 gigabyte image is going to take hours to download. Had the data been distributed on DVD instead, the computer, at least in principle, could have been powered off during that time.

Re:environmental friendliness (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083676)

but in practicality, it won't be.

Plus, you can download it while doing other things on the computer.

Re:environmental friendliness (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083590)

The internet uses electrical power yes, but chances are the servers hosting the files will be up anyway.. I doubt they will use much more than all the machines and raw materials required to produce DVDs...
Your computer will need to be on to read from a DVD, and chances are these days it would be connected to the internet in any case. And spinning the DVD will consume a little extra power.
Also, how many of these discs will never be used (theres one stuck to every newspaper, not every reader will use the DVD so a lot will just end up in landfill. Only people who want the content will download it.

Re:environmental friendliness (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083628)

Considering all the computers to transfer it are already on, I can't imagine it being much more at all.

Re:environmental friendliness (1)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083716)

Because the Internet doesn't use any electrical power?

What's bad about electricity [asu.edu] ?

Re:environmental friendliness (0)

Shimmer (3036) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083432)

Right, because running all the computers between you and the download site takes no resources at all. Wait...

The Beta & The Omega (3, Funny)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083258)

although admits that it hasn't been tested in the PlayStation 3

Well, yeah, that's understandable seeing as it's still so hard to get a hold of a PS3.

Fixed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083316)

Well, yeah, that's understandable seeing as it's still so hard to get a hold of a PS3.
s/PS3/Wii/g

Re:The Beta & The Omega (1)

nmalinoski (1216950) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083328)

I hope you're being sarcastic. The only thing preventing you from getting a PS3 should be a wallet two sizes too small.

Re:The Beta & The Omega (1)

someguy456 (607900) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083382)

I hope you're being sarcastic. The only thing preventing you from getting a PS3 should be a wallet two sizes too small. I don't know what kind of alternate reality you live in, but most people don't have an extra $500-$600 to spend on a video game console, much less $800-1000 for a decent TV nor $50 games to play. Thus, making it still hard, in general, to get a PS3.

Re:The Beta & The Omega (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083450)

HIs point was : PS3 are damn easy to find, precisely for the reasons you gave.

Re:The Beta & The Omega (1)

daveywest (937112) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083350)

I thought it was because no one bought a a PS3 yet?

Re:The Beta & The Omega (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083632)

although admits that it hasn't been tested in the PlayStation 3

Well, yeah, that's understandable seeing as it's still so hard to get a hold of a PS3.
I wouldn't take out a second job just to get a PS3 and put a floppy DVD in it.

Never trusted slot loading (1, Interesting)

PingPongBoy (303994) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083298)

Slot loaders look voracious, and what keeps them from scratching the disk when it slides in and out? If the ejector fails perhaps on a bad disk, it's surgery time for the entire drive. Ask for trouble, and ye shall find it.

Re:Never trusted slot loading (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083358)

Someone needs to look up hardness values. Taking into account practicality, you cannot scratch a diamond with a piece of garnet. The hardness of anything touching the disc needs to be a fair amount harder than the disc surface and then you don't have issues with scratching. You would hope they looking into this when they designed it.

Re:Never trusted slot loading (1)

corsec67 (627446) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083486)

Yeah, and what about little rocks or metal that get caught in the wipes that cover the opening of the drive?

Just because it starts out without any thing that can scratch the disc doesn't mean that it will never be able to scratch a disc.

On a tray loading drive, the disc doesn't rotate in the tray, and nothing should touch the data surfaces of the disc, unless you are using a Xbox 360, and stuff gets misaligned.

Apple and "Standards Compliance" (3, Funny)

BSDetector (1056962) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083352)

"It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum."

Well, who are they to tell Apple and Sir Steve what to do?

Doctor! Doctor! (2, Insightful)

s31523 (926314) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083360)

Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this... Doctor: Don't do that.

Slot-loading drives are completely unreliable (1)

silencer51 (770736) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083366)

Yes, they do look cool and I can understand how in some situations they can be less cumbersome than good old tray drives, but the fact of the matter is they break down very, very easily.

Those who have spent hours trying to get their car's CD player to eject a stuck disc know what I'm talking about.

The Matsushita drives used in Apple's newer models are especially prone to failure (I speak from experience)...

Tray loading ftw.

Not a CLEAR warning! (5, Informative)

Lord Byron II (671689) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083372)

The warning was:

"no Apple slot in drive"

Re:Not a CLEAR warning! (5, Funny)

teslatug (543527) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083554)

Clear the warning was...if yoda you were

Hello, standards (2, Insightful)

Minwee (522556) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083426)

The question is whether either the disc or the drives carried the DVD Logo [dvdfllc.co.jp] ? From what I have seen it's doubtful that the "EcoDisk" would qualify as it is less than half the thickness and weight of a real DVD, so it's interesting to see ODS trying to point fingers at Matshita for not following DVD Forum specifications [ods.com] .

Re:Hello, standards (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083584)

The question is whether either the disc or the drives carried the DVD Logo?
The picture [pcpro.co.uk] shows a 'ECO DVD Video' label. No regular DVD label. It even has a warning telling Mac slot in driver users 'no'.

Very environmentally friendly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083456)

Puts a bunch of broken Macs in a landfill.
Really swift, people.

Obligatory Airplane Quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22083592)

Shanna, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.

And Again (1)

EvilGoodGuy (811015) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083650)

Another case of macs looking cool but not being fully functional. I absolutely hate slot loaders and once had to completely rip one apart to get a CD out of it. (The drive wasn't going to be used again anyways)

So? (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083704)

I have ripped apart many tray drives because of a bad DVD/CD or a mechanical failure. It doesn't mean trays are no good.

While I recognize the issue, I have never had a problem with a slit drive, and I have owned several devices with one for a long time.

Wow. Space-time contiuum and stuff! (3, Funny)

foxtrot (14140) | more than 6 years ago | (#22083712)

I think I've accidentally been transported into a parallel universe. Is this not Slashdot?

What, you say it is Slashdot? Then how do you explain this article without someone (incorrectly) referring to "bricking" the Apple CD drive?

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