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What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the stock-complaints-falling-of-deaf-ears dept.

Technology (Apple) 437

An anonymous reader writes "Forbes.com went to MacWorld to ask Apple fans what bugs them about the computer and gadget maker. Turns out the lack of replaceable batteries, need to buy Vista separately, and most of all the stock price bugs people."

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What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22099790)

Nothing! Such talk is heresy, and for it you shall be burned at the stake!

Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? (1, Funny)

SoulRider (148285) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100500)

wouldnt that be iStake?

Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22100628)

One would assume, but that would be a miStake.

Re: What Bugs Apple Fans About Apple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22100796)

Nothing? How about a Real Doll in the likeness of the Steve?

What bugs Apple fans about Apple (4, Funny)

halivar (535827) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099830)

"You know, the only thing wrong with Apple is that sometimes I just think they're too perfect. I just feel unworthy around the greatness of my iPhone and 24-inch iMac."

*ducks*

*runs*

Re:What bugs Apple fans about Apple (3, Funny)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099956)

*chases you and stabs you in the back of your head with a shovel*

Re:What bugs Apple fans about Apple (4, Funny)

halivar (535827) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100152)

*sprays you with head giblets and +2 vorpal skull fragments*

This can get as ugly as you want it to be.

Re:What bugs Apple fans about Apple (1)

d3ac0n (715594) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100398)

For some reason, head-chopping, gore and Apple reminds me of this comic [penny-arcade.com] .

Not sure why....

Yeah! That Stock Price! (4, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099832)

What's the deal there?

I was much happier with Leopard (or Leo, as I affectionately call her) when the price of Apple stock was a couple bucks higher!

Spend more for this, people! I want to congratulate myself for using my computer again!

Re:Yeah! That Stock Price! (5, Insightful)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100004)

You might actually have a point there. By charging more and carrying on this whole cult of mac mentality, apple is duping people into thinking that they must be buying a superior product. The more Apple fans pay, the more aroused they get gazing at their sleek designer machines.

Leave it Forbes... (5, Funny)

idontgno (624372) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099836)

to assert that "Vista Not Included" actually bothers anyone beside Steve Ballmer.

Re:Leave it Forbes... (3, Informative)

laffer1 (701823) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100230)

Not vista, but it would be helpful to buy a Mac pre-configured with bootcamp + Windows XP. I don't want it at home, but at work it would be quite nice. I could see small business customers loving it.

My boss and I make jokes about Apple, Inc. vs. Apple Computer, Inc. Dropping computer in the name was not just to aid in the sale of phones. I think Apple has lost some focus on their computers. Leopard has not been as big as they had hoped. We're putting off the upgrade at work as long as possible. Leopard reminds me of vista in many ways. I won't bother to argue that point again. I know some people love Leopard and I've even found one person at work who loves Vista. I'm still hoping for a patch to get rid of the memory leaks with their new garbage collection in Cocoa. Most "power" users I know can get about a day a gigabyte (RAM) out of Leopard. I get two to three days out of my old PowerMac with 1.75GB of RAM. A friend of mine has 3GB in a Mac Pro and he can get 3-4 days before a required reboot. My boss has 2GB in his iMac, and left it on during the holidays. He couldn't login to it to reboot when he got back after a week. There are problems with it.

I also seem problems with customer service. I pre-ordered Leopard. It came at 9AM on release day. I attempted to install it on my wife's Mac Pro. The DVD was damaged and I hadn't noticed. I skipped the disc check and prepared to install only to have the install die. I'm not blaming apple for having a non bootable Mac. That was my fault. However, I had to wait until 6PM to call them, wait on hold for 10 minutes to talk to someone, and then 50 more minutes to get a resolution. They didn't have 10.5 in their system yet to send me a replacement disc. The tech eventually arranged for me to go to the nearest apple store. He said I just needed the DVD and original package. I walked in to be harrassed by the Apple Store employees for not bringing a receipt. Had that Mac been my only system, I could not print it anyway! It wouldn't boot. The box only had a packing slip. I offered to bring it up on a demo system, but they didn't want that. Finally, they gave me a new Leopard box. I haven't been very fond of going to that apple store ever sense. The tech was nice, and I did realize it was a launch day. I didn't appreciate the shitty service at the apple store. It's not the first time I had problems in that store. I ordered online so I wouldn't have to go there. I had a friend who had to get his laptop fixed. They guy told him bootcamp was beta in Leopard! He also told him it was too unstable to use. WTF.

Re:Leave it Forbes... (1)

tkdog (889567) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100792)

I stopped getting their ads when I moved, but there is/was at least one reseller that was selling systems with Windows preinstalled via boot camp. As I recall it was slightly more than the Apple store and you either got that or a "free" printer or some such thing. For PR reasons I don't see Apple shipping Windows machines anytime soon. Back to the topic, as a Mac user I do get frustrated at the lack of options in the desktop arena.

Re:Leave it Forbes... (1)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101066)

Your anecdotes don't fit with my anecdotes... my Macbook Pro (2GB RAM) goes for weeks without a reboot... no problems. There are some 3rd party apps that give me issues... Firefox is even slower than on Tiger for instance... but overall I'm really liking Leopard.

Maybe it's a G5 vs. intel issue?

Re:Leave it Forbes... (1)

binford2k (142561) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101214)

Your assertation of out-of-control memory leaks is bullshit. My MBP with Leopard is up for weeks at a time under very heavy use, even running XP in a vm half of the time. The only time it's ever rebooted is when a software update requires it (which is bs in itself, but that's another discussion).

Since I put Leopard on (release day) I've had maybe 2 forced reboots and they had nothing to do with memory leaks.

Memory leak? What? (0)

caveat (26803) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101232)

Most "power" users I know can get about a day a gigabyte (RAM) out of Leopard. I get two to three days out of my old PowerMac with 1.75GB of RAM. A friend of mine has 3GB in a Mac Pro and he can get 3-4 days before a required reboot. My boss has 2GB in his iMac, and left it on during the holidays. He couldn't login to it to reboot when he got back after a week.

Uhhh...I have 1.5 gigs in an old MDD G4, I'm definitely a Power User, and my last reboot was only for the new QuickTime, after 21 days up I had ~750 megs completely unallocated (green in Activity Monitor) if I closed everything.

Re:Leave it Forbes... (2, Interesting)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101324)

I can't tell you anything about Leopard, but here's my record for uptime on my desktop running 10.4:

18:07 up 112 days, 8:57, 5 users, load averages: 0.93 0.24 0.08

As I'm typing this, my desktop has been up 42 days. So, might I humbly suggest that it is not the OS that's your problem, could it be an application? (And yes, I also use my desktop as a file server/terminal for my cluster, that's why it stays up so much.)

Re:Leave it Forbes... (2, Interesting)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101330)

Agreed fully. Leopard, while not as big a disaster as Vista, was not a solid release - not in the same way that Tiger was largely problem-free. I'm still getting MANY network driver problems (refusing to talk to my router's DNS, but only when looking up CERTAIN entries), some BSODs were eliminated with 10.5.1, but IMHO some of them were so serious and easily encountered that it should never have been in any shipping version.

Feature-wise I'm liking Leopard, the unification of the UI is definitely a step forward, and the only problem I have with the OS is its bugginess, and given how I'm used to the rock solid reliability of Tiger, I sometimes contemplate downgrade.

Not a generic PC (4, Insightful)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101558)

Not vista, but it would be helpful to buy a Mac pre-configured with bootcamp + Windows XP. I don't want it at home, but at work it would be quite nice. I could see small business customers loving it.

Sure, but why should that be Apple's responsibility? Apple is there to advertise and sell MacOS X. People buying Macs are for the moost part buying it for MacOS X. If some people want Windows presinstalled on the system, then they could always pay extra and have a shop do the work for them. Apple offering Windows as a 'Build To Order' option would likely cause confusion about their confidence in their own OS.

Apple shouldn't make it any more easier to use the competing OS than they already have. They aren't a generic computer seller and the more the can convince you to drink the cool-aid the better for them. Anyone who believes in their OS, whether it be Linux, Windows, BSD or Amiga, amongst others, are going to have the same attitude.

As to your gripes about Leopard, I am not sure how you are getting such a bad experience. I haven't rebooted for over a month and I use it daily, putting the system to sleep at night. The usual causes for exessive memory usage, on my computer, have been leaks in Firefox and when that happens I kill Firefox and relaunch it. Admitly one computer has gone done once in a while, and the kernel panic clearly points to an ATI driver issue.

Re:Leave it Forbes... (3, Insightful)

0racle (667029) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101636)

I believe Leopard has been the fastest selling OS X released so far. How much bigger do you think they thought it was going to be?

Re:Leave it Forbes... (4, Informative)

Mikey-San (582838) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101664)

Leopard has not been as big as they had hoped.

Apple sells two million copies of Mac OS X Leopard in first weekend [macdailynews.com]

Apple today announced that it sold (or delivered in the case of maintenance agreements) over two million copies of Mac OS X Leopard since its release on Friday, far outpacing the first-weekend sales of Mac OS X Tiger, which was previously the most successful OS release in Apple's history.

On June 6, 2005, Apple announced that they expected to deliver over two million copies of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger by the end of that week (June 11, 2005). Mac OS X Tiger was released at 6pm on Friday, April 29, 2005. Therefore, it took 43 days to sell two million copies of Mac OS X Tiger vs. approximately 3 days for Leopard.


Additionally, Jobs revealed in his keynote that in 90 days, Apple had shipped 5 million copies of Leopard (which of course, means retail boxes plus new machines, but Leopard undoubtedly helped sell those machines). This resulted in 20% of the installed base running the new OS in 90 days.

You were saying?

Re:Leave it Forbes... (4, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100284)

What about the other things? Replaceable batteries? The batteries on my MacBook Pro and PowerBook are easily replaceable. Those on the iPod aren't, but I would much rather have a small device than a bigger one with a removable battery. Vista? I switched to Mac to get away from Windows, and all of the other operating systems I use are free (and Free). The stock price? Totally bugs me. Every time I use my Mac, I think 'this would be so much more useful to me if only Apple's stock price were different.' No, wait, I don't.

The thing that really bug me about Apple now is that they seem to have completely forgotten how QA is supposed to work. I have filed more bug reports for Leopard since its release than for any other OS (including on that is reproduceable and causes the user's home directory to be rendered inaccessible by any Leopard machine). I have raised my standards a lot for what kind of bug I should file with Leopard. With Jagwyre and Tiger I filed bugs that were UI regressions or caused irritation. With Leopard I'm only filing ones that are major UI regressions or cause serious data loss and I'm still filing a lot more than I was.

Re:Leave it Forbes... (5, Funny)

MacDork (560499) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100552)

Batteries, yes. Vista, WTF?? Stock price, split already! Add to that, downgrades in Leopard, like the loss of airtunes in frontrow, the loss of file system menus in the dock, and how they borked previews in finder column views to force quicklook on you. Also, the inability to sync iTunes libraries on multiple macs is extremely annoying. If you can sync with AppleTV, why can't you sync with a Mini? Does RIAA cock taste that good Apple? Oh, and WTF is up with no airtunes audio jack on the new time capsule? Who missed that one? Other gripes, still no iPhone SDK, glass iPhone that's *going* to break, and phone software that's three years behind the rest of the industry with regards to MMS, camera, java, flash, etc and so forth...

Chair joke (was:Leave it Forbes...) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22101538)

to assert that "Vista Not Included" actually bothers anyone beside Steve Ballmer.
This time around the chairs are seen being thrown at Cupertino by a different Steve instead of at Redmond.

Re:Leave it Forbes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22101716)

I had my problems parsing "the need for Vista". No punchline anywhere.

This would never get linked if Barely Legal... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22099878)

... were behind it, yet economic pr0n is okay? Forbes is pure scheisse-pr0n at that. They're fucking SCOX-lovers [google.com] for crying out loud.

Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (5, Insightful)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099886)

I love Apple stuff. I love OS X and it has in the last few months been what Linux (after almost 10 years of trying) never could be for me: a complete and total replacement for Windows.

With that said, I don't like Apple's computer lineup. We have a good selection on notebooks now: cheap, ultra portable, and powerful.

Ok, now for desktop: cheap, all-in-one, and powerhouse workstation. Problem is: where is the regular computer? For anybody who wants a reasonably specced system (better than Mini, not as tricked out as the Pro) with no monitor added, there's just no good choice. I already have a monitor. Not only do I not want another, but I can't use it: I share my monitor between multiple systems and you can't do that with an iMac. iMac also has no upgrade slots for new video cards etc.

I have an old G4 that does well. I have a hacked x86 "Mac" box that fits my computing needs. I have an Apple TV, and I have an iPod. I love Apple's stuff. I just wish that they'd make a "real" Mac that fit my needs so I wouldn't have to resort to building one.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (5, Interesting)

Quirkz (1206400) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100366)

Agreed. In my case, I build web sites, so having two monitors is critical, something that the iMac and Mini won't support. However, I don't need a particularly powerful box to do the coding and some light graphics work. Because I want two monitors, I'm faced with the choice between a $600 Windows box or a $2500 Mac Pro. While I would gladly shell out extra money to have a Mac desktop--I'd pay $1000 or even $1500 for one, probably--I just cannot justify paying four times the price for the Pro. Unfortunately for Apple, this situation is pushing me towards Windows in general. I've got an old iBook for travel, but there's something to be said for consistency, and when the iBook goes out I'm not sure if I'll go Mac or Windows with the next laptop.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (2, Informative)

eldepeche (854916) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100570)

I'm pretty sure an iMac supports dual monitors; you just have to shell out $20 for a dongle.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (3, Interesting)

alan_dershowitz (586542) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101374)

Using the video output, your desktop was mirrored and did not span the two screens. (I don't know if the newest models still do this.) There were firmware hacks to get around this completely artificial restriction, which Apple put into place to differentiate their consumer line machines from their professional line. That's a thing about Apple that bugs me, now that you mention it.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (2, Interesting)

kamochan (883582) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101598)

The powerpc ibooks (and afaik imacs, never had a powerpc one) did have that artificial restriction. One bit changed in the boot loader prompt was sufficient to remove the restriction (the "firmware hack"), and it was so common that in practice it didn't even affect warranty (yes, I tested this). The intel macbooks and imacs do not have the mirror-only restriction.

And I completely agree, the artificial restriction was annoying. I suspect that consumer feedback to that effect (mine included) affected the decision not to have it in the intel line-up, i.e. when a sufficient excuse came to remove the restriction without looking silly. The non-pro mac versions are better than pros also for some business stuff (desktops & road warrioring), in which mirror-only is a stupid restriction.

My main annoyance of Apple is the rev.A quality suckage (and the truly sucky quality of Leopard, up to and including 10.5.1). I'm the friggin' customer, not a beta tester. My time is worth a lot, and that's a premium I'm not willing to pay. Consequently I am no longer an early adopter... but it sucks to just drool at all the new stuff :-P

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (0, Redundant)

binford2k (142561) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101296)

why does building web sites *require* two monitors?

Buy used. (1)

reidconti (219106) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101328)

Buy used.

My iBook 600 lasted me 5 years, including all thru college, so when I had the means, I bought a Mac Pro with a 24" Dell. I love it. But you're absolutely right, the power is way more than most of us need. I justified it because I know if I could last 5 years on a non-upgradeable system, it will be no problem to go that long on this one.

I really don't understand Apple's justification for not selling a computer for the rest of us.

I had the same problem at work; how to justify a Mac Pro, or buy a Mini with a huge widescreen. Fortunately my boss traded up to a Mac Pro so I inherited his dual 2.0 G5 PowerMac.

Apple computers tend to have high resale values so they're not exactly a bargain on the used market, but I bet you could easily buy a high-end G5 for barely over $1000. It'll be quite awhile before nobody makes PPC software.

Personally, I don't even notice the difference switching between PPC and Intel at work and home.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (1)

Darth (29071) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101586)

You could get a mac book pro and run it 2 headed (the built in screen, and a flat panel attached via the dvi port)

Alternately, you could get an iMac and run it 2 headed using the mini-DVI port. You'll need a $20 adaptor to turn it into a regular dvi port, but that's not really that big a deal, is it?

My wife has a 24" iMac and has a second monitor hooked up to it this way. It works just fine.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (2, Interesting)

slyn (1111419) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100520)

I agree. I'm not much of a serious gamer, but I would love to have a computer with a good GPU, a decent CPU and lots of storage to tinker around with. I would Tri-boot and use OS X for normal web browsing, WoW, and making simple movies (like this one i made [youtube.com] ) in OS X, playing custom songs in GH3 in XP, and for experimenting with various FOSS OS's, as essentially the only experience I have is with Ubuntu. Part of that tinkering includes me wanting to make it myself, but that is not a neccesity. So essentially now the only thing that could fill that void is a Mac Pro, which would be more powerful than I want, or a Hackintosh, which I am putting some serious thought into getting now that the new Mac Pro's have 8800 GT's, and thus (hopefully, I haven't actually done any research on this) there will be drivers for that card in the OS x86 builds.

Just like the parent I have a monitor, portability is not an issue, and the Mac Pro is overpowered for what I want to use it for. A computer with a 8800 GT, a Core 2 Duo, 500+ gigs of HD, and commodity everything else would be perfect for what I want to use it for, but there simply isn't one that Apple makes. If they did, I would be one of the first to line up for it.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (1)

samkass (174571) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101164)

Yup. I'm holding on to my G5 tower for now until Apple either ships a reasonable desktop computer (ie. one with a slotted video card and a good mainstream processor) or a laptop with a docking station that will let me have 2 monitors but still snap it out and go.

I've been waiting almost 5 years so far. I'm hoping they do this before I'm forced to go to the dark side.

Dang, sometimes I wish someone other than Apple made "normal" computers that ran MacOS X.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (0, Troll)

Zebra_X (13249) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101320)

But... Steve knows exactly what you want - what you need, even before you do. Maybe you just haven't figured it out yet.

I mean, I was absolutely *sure* that I didn't want my airport extreme to use the .1 address on my network - but now that I reconfigured my LAN every thing works great! Thanks Steve!

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (1)

revscat (35618) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101410)

Shut the fuck up.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (1)

DdJ (10790) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101548)

Ok, now for desktop: cheap, all-in-one, and powerhouse workstation. Problem is: where is the regular computer? For anybody who wants a reasonably specced system (better than Mini, not as tricked out as the Pro) with no monitor added, there's just no good choice.
I think the problem here is, the typical user would consider the mini a "reasonably specced system". The mini is a "regular computer". To accommodate the people who want something in between the mini and the Pro, well, they're all going to want slightly different things, and that breaks away from the "small number of standardized systems" philosophy at Apple.

If you're looking for a platform where you can have very fine-grained tuning of the hardware options across the whole product range, that's not Apple and it's not going to be. Is that what you dislike?

I mean, I really don't know many people who wouldn't be happy with either a mini or an iMac. My wife uses a Mini. All my co-workers use iMacs. I am considering getting a Mini or iMac for home myself (right now I use my MacBook Pro and nothing else, no desktop system at all unless you count the Linux server farm in the basement). I think the market for something in between a Mini/iMac and a Pro really would be a niche market.

Re:Lack of acknowledgment of my market segment (1)

itsdapead (734413) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101642)

Ok, now for desktop: cheap, all-in-one, and powerhouse workstation. Problem is: where is the regular computer?

I share your frustration, but I think Apple's business plan depends on selling sexy. "designer" laptop and small form-factor systems that offer a high profit margin and long "product lifetimes" without being uncompetetive. Since the Intel switch, Apple prices (esp. at the start of a product cycle) have compared well with equivalent "premium" PCs.

The mini-tower market is low margin and highly competetive, with big box-shifters putting together (often perfectly good) bargain bucket systems from whatever commodity products they have a surplus of that month. I think it would be hard for Apple to compete profitably in that market - but what they could very easily do is compete with themselves and sell low-margin Mac desktops to established Apple customers who might otherwise have bought high-margin MacBooks or iMacs.

Also remember that the Mac "Cube" was a failure, as was the 1990s experiment with licensing Mac OS (surprise, surprise, the 3rd parties went after Apple in the high end workstation market instead of trying to make VolksMacs...)

I have a hacked x86 "Mac" box that fits my computing needs.

Probably not the stereotypical non-techie Mac user, then - although less so now that Mac OS = Unix. I suspect the best way that Apple can acknowledge your market segment is to turn a blind eye to non-commercial hacking of OS X.

Not only do I not want another, but I can't use it: I share my monitor between multiple systems and you can't do that with an iMac

Although I'm inclined to agree with that, iMacs can support a second monitor (which could be shared between multiple systems).

The other problem with integrated monitors (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101674)

Is that generally a good monitor will outlast a computer. At work some time ago we got budget to upgrade one of our instructional labs. It badly needed it, the engineering software we run in it (particularly HFSS) was just way too much for the old machines. Well we were given $50,000 for 50 machines. We could spend that however we wanted, but basically it means $1000 to distribute to a computer. However, while the machines needed replacing, the monitors didn't. They are nice LCDs, and are all still working great. So that meant we could put more money towards the computers, which allows them to do better at what they need to do and last longer.

Now again in the next year or two we are going to probably look at replacing the systems (this was about three years ago) but we'll still probably keep the monitors. They are still working great. While new monitors aren't that much it'd still be probably $150 per system or so. That's enough to get 2GB more memory and a faster processor, a worthwhile investment when the system is likely to be in place for 5 years and has to run intense software.

If you get an all-in-one, you have to pay for that monitor every time. That's fine if you want a new monitor, but if you are happy with what you have there's no reason to spend the money on a new one. Even CRTs outlasted the computers generally but with LCDs it is particularly true. They have nice long lifes and their image stays sharp. First thing to go is the backlights, and those are replaceable if you like.

Much more economical, not to mention environmentally friendly, to keep using a monitor if it still works well than to get a new one just because you need a new computer and the monitor happens to be attached to it.

price of hardware considering upgrade cycle (1, Insightful)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099930)

If you need to buy a new laptop every three years, you can almost justify it when they cost $600. Still annoying but you can live with it. When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle, that's when baby jebus starts crying.

What are you talking about? (2, Informative)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100254)

A MacBook starts at $1,100.

What laptop are you looking at that starts at $2000?

Re:What are you talking about? (1)

Wdomburg (141264) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100428)

One would presume he's talking about the one that starts at $2000 (the Macbook Pro) rather than the one that starts at $1100. :)

(There are an awful lot of people who prefer screens bigger than 13")

Re:What are you talking about? (1)

Bastardchyld (889185) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100836)

This is probably true, however it is dishonest to say that laptops start at 2000 when it is actually the MacBook Pro that starts at 1999, and there is actually other models of laptops that start at 1099.

Re:What are you talking about? (2, Insightful)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101362)

And honestly, if you're looking for a $600 laptop you REALLY shouldn't be comparing with MacBook Pros, or any high-end laptop like that. Apple has never made secret that it builds only mid-high end machinery, not low-end budget computers.

I've been moving my family, friends, and gf to Macs for a while now, and they're much happier than they've ever been. Between $1100 and $600 you get a heck of a lot more performance (not always relevant to them), but the peace of mind of not being subject to malware, trojans, and not having to buy an AV kit, that's worth the price tag difference alone - all that extra hardware is just icing on the cake.

Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle (1)

Bastardchyld (889185) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100390)

You said:

...When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle...


Actually currently on Apple's Store they have laptops starting at $1099. Did you round up?

Seriously though if you think they are too expensive then fine don't buy one, but if you are going to make an argument that they are too expensive please use accurate, or at least keep the price close to accurate (read: don't double it).

You're forgetting resale... (1)

MacDork (560499) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100824)

When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle, that's when baby jebus starts crying.

Macs last longer and have far better resale value. It costs me about $500/yr to stay in a high end Apple laptop. That's two trips to Pizza Hut a month. Easily worth it.

Re:You're forgetting resale... (1)

Budenny (888916) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101122)

That's right, they are integrated. Besides, they have better components. They use better processors, more expensive and better quality memory, that's why you get less of it, because its better, and they don't use any old disk drives, they use premium ones. And their graphics cards are better too. That's why they cost more. You get what you pay for. Oh, and their optical drives are very high class premium drives too, none of this cheap OEM crap. And I forgot those cases. Those are premium cases.

Did I say they're like a BMW?

Re:You're forgetting resale... (1)

MacDork (560499) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101382)

They use better processors

Spare me your sarcasm... $500/yr is quite a bit more than his $200/yr PC expenditure, but I'm sure I could do that on the consumer end of Apple's product spectrum. Time is a priority for me, so a faster laptop is worth the extra money. If your time isn't a priority for you, feel free to buy slower hardware and save your money for something else.

Re:price of hardware considering upgrade cycle (1)

merreborn (853723) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101486)

If you need to buy a new laptop every three years, you can almost justify it when they cost $600. Still annoying but you can live with it. When the laptop starts at $2000 and has the same upgrade cycle, that's when baby jebus starts crying.
Every laptop with specs comparable to the macbook carries roughly the same price as the macbook's $1100.

Good luck getting a $1100 HP to last more than 6 months, though.

Old complaint... (3, Interesting)

SaidinUnleashed (797936) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099940)

Don't get me wrong, I love my new macbook, but the one-button mouse really bugs me. I can live with the two-finger click thing, but I'd really prefer a two, or three button trackpad.

Re:Old complaint... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22100392)

The Mighty Mouse can be configured to provide right-click. I have the wireless model, and I like it just fine.

Re:Old complaint... (5, Interesting)

phoebusQ (539940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100402)

I find that very interesting. For me, the two-finger scroll and two-finger alt click have been godsends. Now I can left click, right click, and scroll without changing my finger position on the trackpad whatsoever. I can't stand using the separate right click on my IBM linux laptop now.

Re:Old complaint... (1)

kamochan (883582) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101678)

Same here. Even earlier, having the big single button and the whatwasitcalled, SideTrack thingy was just a huge efficiency improvement in using a laptop. This from a heavy X stuff user. YMMV of course, but I now also intensely dislike the awkward IBM button-thingy.

Ergonomics is something Apple does well, and ergonomics correctly applied leads to efficiency.

Re:Old complaint... (1)

cromar (1103585) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100644)

That's interesting. I prefer my mice to have two buttons, but when it cums to trackpads I greatly prefer the "two-finger technique(TM)" for the right-clicking. I wonder what preference / difference in use causes this...

Re:Old complaint... (1)

FrankDeath (746264) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100670)

I thought that the one-button trackpad would be the thing I hated most about my new MacBook Pro (I recently switched from Windows). Thanks to the two-finger click I have grown to love the single trackpad button.

The thing that I'm still fuming about is the lack of a cut (Cmd+x) feature for files in Finder. Would it really be so horrible to allow advanced users who are ok with the "inconsistent" behavior to enable the cutting of files? It would make switchers like me much more productive.

I guess it's better that they don't allow cutting...at least until they fix the bugs with moving files (interrupting a move causes you to lose the files you're copying).

FrankDeath

Re:Old complaint... (1)

Trillan (597339) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101670)

The move bug was fixed in 10.5.1.

They moved so fast on that one that in retrospect I should have reported it in Mac OS 8 when I first noticed it.

Re:Old complaint... (1)

takanishi79 (1203342) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100682)

After having used a lot of trackpads from a number of different manufacturers, I definitely like the single button version of the trackpad best. I never feel like I'm touching something that isn't supposed to be part of the computer (like I do with most other manufacturers), and the double touch to right click feels better than any button could for me, short of an actual mouse.

Re:Old complaint... (1)

jacksonj04 (800021) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101616)

I'll join the rest of the people replying to this and say: "Really?"

When I find myself on Windows laptops I often catch myself doing the two-finger right click or two-finger scroll motions then cursing when they don't work.

If I were an Apple fan... (1, Flamebait)

not already in use (972294) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099960)

I'd suffer from a severe case of self-loathing...

Re:If I were an Apple fan... (1)

cromar (1103585) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101054)

You're silly. Shut up now :)

greed (5, Interesting)

FredAkbar (871106) | more than 6 years ago | (#22099994)

We Apple fans like to see Apple do well, but probably more in terms of selling more products (higher marketshare, becoming more popular in society, etc.) than just higher profits (most of us aren't in it for the money, after all). So for me, one annoying thing Apple does is charge for products or services that could/should be free.

For example, the new software for the iPod touch is a $20 download. This is the same software that's a free update for the iPhone. Even the new software for the Apple TV is a free upgrade. If I were an iPod touch owner, I'd be pretty offended that I have to pay $20 (well, disregarding free jailbreaking options and whatnot) for an update that iPhone users get for free.

Remember iTools? The free service that gave you mail, web storage, etc. if you were a Mac user? In July 2002 it was rebranded as .Mac and Apple began charging $100/year for it. I realize that this increases profits (at least short-term), but I often find myself wishing that companies would accept short-term losses if it would mean an overall increase in marketshare and customer satisfaction. If .Mac were free, it could be marketed as yet another advantage of the Mac (in addition to iLife, etc.). Instead, it's an expensive subscription service that many people know nothing about, nor have they any reason to.

Re:greed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22101622)

On one level, I agree with you that $20 for iPod firmware upgrade is nickel-and-diming the customers, but you can't compare that to the iPhone and [Apple]TV. iPhone uses a different model than iPod, that is, Apple gets a cut of the subscription from AT&T to deal with upgrades and customer support. [Apple]TV is also used as a storefront for iTunes Store. iPod, OTOH, is a device that does not necessarily interact with Apple's revenue generating services. It's a one-time purchase item that could/might be used to enjoy iTunes media.

That said, I think $20 is way too much for a set of apps that should be standard. Foregoing that revenue may be better in the long term as customers would purchase Apple devices without a fear of getting left behind.

The stock price? (2, Interesting)

Orig_Club_Soda (983823) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100010)

I LOVE the stock price. I bought my stock 7 years ago and its one of the best in my portfolio.

Re:The stock price? (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100034)

Yea, what's really bugging them is the hit it's taken since the start of the new year. News Flash, lots of company stock has been taking hits lately. Wait it out, day-traders!

Well there are some problems with Apple (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100042)

But nothing but the battery really bugs me.
I would like to see Apple come out with a lower cost notebook.
I would like to see Apple come out with a desktop that doesn't cost a fortune and lets you upgrade the graphics card.

Oh and iTunes needs to be all DRM free.

Re:Well there are some problems with Apple (1)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100170)

iTunes needs to be all DRM free.
It sure does, but that's not up to Apple.

The lack of good head less desktop and a $1500 lap (0)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100076)

The lack of good head less desktop and a $1500 laptop that has intel on board video.

The mini is over priced and under powered.

The imacs are AIO with weak video cards for gameing and the screens are not meant for pro work.

The mac pro is nice but starting at $2300 is high to get a desktop with a real video card.

The older ppc macs started at the $1500 price level.

Why can't there be a desktop with DESKTOP hardware not laptop hardware as with the imac and mac mini for $600 - $1900?

you can replace the mini with this give on board video and a pci-e slots to keep costs down or just put a low end video in the low end system.

With good video cards maybe even SLI / CrossFire with 2 - 4+ gb of ram with a good choice of cpus you can have a nice mid-range pro system and good gameing system.

The mac pro is meant for high level pro work that replaced the older PPC macs that coasted $500 less.

you can keep the mini but push the price down to $500 and give a dvd/rw drive.

Re:The lack of good head less desktop and a $1500 (1)

stubear (130454) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100594)

I always thought Apple killing the Cube was a bad idea. I'd love to see a new Cube sized Mac that has the basic innards of a Mac Mini but that allows me to swap the hard drive and video card if I want. Oh, and give ma a wireless keyboard with the numeric keypad. What the hell were they thinking when they axed the keypad on their new wireless keyboards?

FTFF. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22100172)

And the dock. And drag-and-drop. And all the rest of the stupid crappy broken-interface stuff that OS X has been packed with from day one. The interface has got slightly worse with every iteration. Why can't we have OS X's speed and robustness with OS 9's slick, intuitive, efficient, and consistent interface?

The attitude that "almost but not quite" is good (5, Interesting)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100202)

enough.

I use macs at home and at work, and they are great machines....most of the time. Maybe I'm a perfectionist, maybe I'm just expecting too much, but so many of Apple's tools are great most of the time. However they have flaws that make them annoying to unusable in certain situations, and at least the Apple of late seems unwilling to fix them.
Example: Airport extreme with airdisk. When the thing is working it is perfect, however, in my experience the disconnects are really annoying, and it disconnects much more than my airport express ever did. Also, when, out of the box, I tried to bridge it with said express it went into infinite reboot mode till I did a factory reset. Again, in theory a great product but when I pay a premium for Apple products I expect it work right 99% of the time, not 90%.

Their server products are another great example of how Apple's products, on the surface anyway, are great, but in practice it tends to fall apart. We are rolling out an LDAP system and it has been nothing but problems. Apple has done a seemingly good job of making a really slick open directory server tool, but there are just too many bugs to make it worth while. A particularly nasty one, that has been reported to Apple but Apple refuses to fix, is that for some international users certain actions will change the time zone to Cupertino, which can wreak havoc with systems. Come on Apple, we paid a lot of money for this system, the least you can do is get the time zones correct. The server also has almost no meaningful error messages(took me forever to figure out the effects I was observing was related to the time zone bug, the Workgroup manager went on its happy way, authenticated me, then didn't do anything afterwards, not a single error message). Similar problems with getting Remote Desktop to work with Directory authentication. All I get is a "Authentication failed" message with no additional information either on the target machine or the server! Come on Apple, you went through a lot of effort to develop this system, but all that is wasted if you don't give me proper error messages!

Ditto with iPhone content management, the system works great 90% of the time, but the inability to give the user more flexibility with content management can lead to frustration and hacks that require playlists of playlists......

I don't know why Apple refuses to address these issues. None of them seem like they would be incredibly hard/expensive to fix, but Apple just seems to have the attitude that if it works in the general cases, there is no need to investigate the extremes and fix whatever problems may arise.

Re:The attitude that "almost but not quite" is goo (2, Insightful)

earnest murderer (888716) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100850)

I don't know why Apple refuses to address these issues. None of them seem like they would be incredibly hard/expensive to fix, but Apple just seems to have the attitude that if it works in the general cases, there is no need to investigate the extremes and fix whatever problems may arise.
I think that for the most part... "You already paid for it, why should we do any more." Apple just doesn't fix shit unless they've got egg on their face. Pretty much security and catastrophic bugs. Everything else waits for the next version.

I don't like Vista (still run XP on most of my systems) but at least Microsoft documents their bugs and work arounds instead of pretending nothing is wrong.

On the other hand, Apple is cheap. A 130 dollar OS and 80 bucks for a suite of tools for total noob's isn't a bad price.

But I'd pay $400 for an Ultimate edition that worked.

Re:The attitude that "almost but not quite" is goo (1)

Hobb3s (1016023) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100930)

I'm totally on board with you here. I look after a contingent of 15 Mac's and Several Xserves and Xraids, and my primary issue is with their software/hardware error reporting. I just today had to replace a power supply on one of my xserves.. after more than a week of research to figure out where the problem of spontaneous reboots was coming from. According to the hardware monitoring, the power supply was A-ok, and according to the system logs I had a random numbered error with no reference on apple's site anywhere. Their official response was "bring it into an apple certified dealer for service" (because apparently I'm incapable of using a screw driver) ..long story short.. I traced it down, and replaced the power supply, now all is well. But their support.. needs work.

accidental damage warranty (1)

stormguard2099 (1177733) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100244)

I know of several people who have decided against apple because they just didn't feel comfortable without accidental damage covered under warranty. It seems like apple could have something beyond applecare that could be purchased to cover this so those who don't want to pay extra don't have to.

The lack of upgradeability of the freaking Mac Pro (1)

Draconix (653959) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100246)

The Mac Pro is less than 2 years old. The NVidia 8800 GT PC version works great in it under Windows, from what I've heard. Yet, Apple was either too lazy/incompetent or outright malicious to make the Mac version of that card compatible with older Mac Pros. I'm stuck with a choice between keeping my godawful NV 7300, or upgrading to a mid-range ATI cart, or an overpriced, extremely hardware-failure prone ATI X1900. "Weak" does not even begin to describe this situation.

Fan here, but no "fanboy" (1)

Raineer (1002750) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100358)

I like Apple products, but not in the cult-following sort of way. What bugs me, specifically, is their attitude towards Leopard. I understand a released OS having some bugs, I think everyone does, but when the bugs are not acknowledged by such an allegedly-wonderful company...it's a bit too much. Why does Leopard have such a hard time remembering my network settings? Why can I not place the desired attachment/network/password into a "location"? Why does it disconnect and then disappear from the list to where I have to manually add it? I don't like to broadcast my SSID, but Leopard should be able to remember what network I was using without me having to add it every time I disconnect.

partnering with AT&T (3, Insightful)

StandardDeviant (122674) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100362)

I hated SWB/SBC (for many good reasons too lengthy for a comment box) and AT&T hasn't done anything to lessen that hatred over time. No matter how many features the iWhatever may have, even a footnote of involvement with AT&T is an instant buzz-kill. I really don't care what mitigating circumstances or defenses might be brought up here, AT&T is an instant "NO!" in my book.

Compared to that, my disgruntlement with their video hardware across the line is a minor thing. The exact nature of that disgruntlement depends on the model in question. Suffice to say that apple has my heart in the portable sphere for offering well spec'd, decently priced, and well-integrated portable Unix with their powerbooks/mac pros but I really wish they had something in the mid-range desktop line that wasn't an iMac (the mini is a bit too constraining, already have a nice monitor rendering the imacs moot, and the pro is far too over-spec'd/expensive for my needs). I'm half-way considering building a hackintosh for my next desktop. (It's either that or ubuntu most likely. Vista is right out.)

And which people did they talk to? (3, Interesting)

hellfire (86129) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100404)

Batteries? This is a huge complaint by a large portion of the user base. The problem is that you didn't have to go to Macworld Expo to find this out... cheezy reporting.

Windows Vista? Ummmm this is entirely misrepresented here. Yes, some people might be upset that they have to plunk down $200 for vista, but think about it. That's not a problem with apple and no one focuses that gripe at apple. That's all the fault of Windows being way too expensive. It's that or they start bundling windows and making the mac $200 more, which I don't want. Apple has lots of great programs that are comparable to most windows programs.

Stock price? Everyone's stock price is hurting right now! We are a month from a recession, the stock market is tanking, and a stock going down after an expo is not unusual, in fact it happens a lot. It's called profit taking. Investors ride the short term wave of hype, and when the hype is done, they get off the wave as fast as they can. After the expo there's no more momentum keeping the stock moving upward quickly.

Ask a real apple fan what cheeses him. Like for example that A2DP isn't supported on the iphone, or any iPod. That's my #1 beef right now right after the battery issue.

Re:And which people did they talk to? (1)

evilbessie (873633) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100712)

You can't be a month from recession, as the definition is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth, that isn't happening in the states right now so it's not a recession.

Re:And which people did they talk to? (2, Insightful)

revlayle (964221) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100760)

OEM versions of Windows are WAY WAY cheaper than $200, you know? (which is what Apple would be paying for the OS if it came pre-installed) - they could charge $50 extra and probably break even or even make a tenny-weeny profit. Even if they did that, they would probably still charge an extra $200 and laugh to the bank.

Re:And which people did they talk to? (1)

Nebu (566313) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101422)

Windows Vista? Ummmm this is entirely misrepresented here. Yes, some people might be upset that they have to plunk down $200 for vista, but think about it. That's not a problem with apple and no one focuses that gripe at apple. That's all the fault of Windows being way too expensive. It's that or they start bundling windows and making the mac $200 more, which I don't want.
OEM versions of Windows are WAY WAY cheaper than $200, you know? (which is what Apple would be paying for the OS if it came pre-installed) - they could charge $50 extra and probably break even or even make a tenny-weeny profit. Even if they did that, they would probably still charge an extra $200 and laugh to the bank.

Mod parent up. People who looking for alternatives to Windows typically like having lots of choices, and so the grand-parent's implication that Apple shouldn't sell a Vista bundle because he doesn't it want it is somewhat hypocritical. There's no reason Apple couldn't a package which includes Vista, and another package which doesn't. It would make a segment of Apple's customers happier, and it would make Microsoft happier. I'm guessing the main reasons Apple doesn't do it are:

  • It would seem to contradict their ad campaign which claims that no one wants Vista.
  • It would imply that Apple has an "official" hardware configuration for running Vista, and it might seem slower compared to, say, an HP or Dell hardware configuration for running Vista.

Lock-in (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22100752)

Lock-in. It feels even more confining in the Apple world than in the Microsoft world. (Pre-XP Microsoft world, that is. I suspect it's comparable to Vista.)

the scam that is the I-tunes gift card (2, Funny)

BlueshiftVFX (1158033) | more than 6 years ago | (#22100810)

So I purchased an I-tunes gift card for $20 the other day expecting that with that alone I could actually buy some stuff from I-Store. On the packaging for the card it states that you can not refund or return the card. Ok, well it shouldn't be a problem, why would I need to do that? so I go to the I-store to get some stuff and low and behold now It needs a credit card!

Why the Frak would I have bought an Frickin I-card if I had a fricken credit card! nowhere on the card does it say this! In the I-help it says that it is possible to sign up with out one but where? how? there's no way to do it!

This is a pile of I-BS and is a I-scam.

I am not really a Mac fan, though I am a user. and this I-pisses me off about ever being a fricken I-fan. oh but there so easy to use and so friendly! pretentious BS.

Re:the scam that is the I-tunes gift card (1)

reidconti (219106) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101430)

Your rant is a bit hard to follow, but I assume what you're saying is that you need a credit card in order to setup an account on the iTunes music store, before you can redeem the gift card?

Interesting. Makes sense, I guess -- I mean, I know this is how they make sure you're not buying tunes (even when paying for them) from an iTMS in a foreign country. I've had an Apple account for a long time, which I guess has a CC linked to it; as I've used it for maybe $30-$40 in purchases over the years. I guess the Coca-Cola giveaways needed you to already have a valid account, too?

I've never had anything malicious happen to my credit card as a result of being used on the Apple store, but I certainly understand people wanting to be able to buy tunes without having an online account with yet another company. Damn website accounts for the most trivial things are the bane of my existence.

Attitude... (4, Insightful)

rueger (210566) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101210)

What strange and pointless article. Macs have all sorts of well documented deficiencies in either hardware or design, and even the most loyal fanbois will usually acknowledge them.

I'll still argue that the biggest weaknesses with Macs is the "we have decided what you need, and that's exactly what you get" attitude. Regardless of how much one may love Apple design, it still remains that one size does not fit all, and a lot of Apple's decisions work against people who have every good reason to do things in another way.

To wit - my preference for a Delete key instead of dragging files to a trash icon is not a weakness on my part, it's a more than reasonable preference. Regardless of all the keyboard options and such, there are many times when I simply prefer to press Delete.

Of course Vista is no better, and wrestling it into submission can also be frustrating, but I have heard few Vista users trying to argue that its deficiencies are in fact strengths.

The Command key (4, Informative)

sxltrex (198448) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101448)

Have you tried Command-Delete? Also known as the Apple key, Apple tends to use this key as a modifier for many Finder shortcuts.

Re:Attitude... (3, Informative)

revscat (35618) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101656)

What strange and pointless article. Macs have all sorts of well documented deficiencies in either hardware or design, and even the most loyal fanbois will usually acknowledge them.

I am coming to believe that the rabid fanboi is a mythological figure. I have never once actually encountered such a person.

To wit - my preference for a Delete key instead of dragging files to a trash icon is not a weakness on my part, it's a more than reasonable preference. Regardless of all the keyboard options and such, there are many times when I simply prefer to press Delete.

Try hitting Cmd-Delete.

What bugs Apple fans about Apple? (1)

petehead (1041740) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101240)

I think that the biggest problem with Apple is that they are so impatient to change America.

It's a love/hate relationship (1)

Glendale2x (210533) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101242)

I love the presentation and attention to detail in their products - software and hardware. I hate how that if it doesn't do what Apple thinks it should be doing, it's a bitch to modify it, and it'll probably self-destruct with the next update.

My beef with Apple... (1)

Schnoogs (1087081) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101268)

The Mac Mini is priced right but its integrated graphics leaves a lot to be desired if you're a gamer AND an owner of a 30" monitor.

The Mac Pro's ridiculous specs are only matched by its ridiculous price.

The iMac has all the features I want but comes with a display I neither need nor want to pay for.

Where is the $1500 Mac that comes without a display but has a decent GPU? Either they need a beefed up Mac Mini or a toned down Mac Pro?

If Apple solved this problem I'm in bigtime.

Apple Mouse...smells like a rat (1)

Initi (1031362) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101286)

For a company that can to so many thing so well, they can't design a mouse for (#&$(*#. I mean really, the original iMac mouse hockey puck should have had someone's head on a platter for its utter uselessness. The newer mighty mouses aren't much better, though the scroll ball is cool. Their keyboard as well suck peanuts out of yesterday's *&#&. Easy to fix; though on a $2000 computer I expect better.

an annoyed Apple customer (3, Insightful)

sloth jr (88200) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101310)

I've been at Macs a long, long time. Started with the Mac 512k, two external 400k floppies.
A few things have really irked me lately that were not true in the past.
- OS upgrade pricing. There is none, just buy it new. Used to be the system software was distributed free.
- Leopard "improvements". This has been hashed out elsewhere, but reduced functionality in the dock and non-movable sections in the finder sidebar are irksome, regardless of purported internal improvements.
- Many more app crashes. In APPLE products.
- Inconsistent user design, focus on chrome and glitz rather than usability.
- Ongoing arrogance and hubris, as witnessed in the $20 iPod Touch software upgrade. Again, quite the kick-in-the-nuts for early adopters.

Lots of things are right with Apple, but I am not that happy with the trend that I am afraid I am seeing.

Pay to buy Vista separately? (0, Troll)

jrothwell97 (968062) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101338)

Pay to buy Vista separately? IMO I should be paid to buy Vista separately and install it. That said, I believe the fastest Vista laptop computer CNet (or maybe PC World?) has ever tested is, rather ironically, a MacBook Pro - that's when you know Apple is getting something right and Microsoft is getting something wrong.

Re:Pay to buy Vista separately? (1)

Schnoogs (1087081) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101484)

I wasn't aware that MS made notebooks. I'm also highly skeptical of your claim seeing as there are numerous PC notebooks that come with considerably faster GPU's than any Apple notebook so I'd be curious as to what they were testing when they made that claim.

Smugness perpetuated by Apple (2, Insightful)

SPF22 (842817) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101428)

I've been a Mac faithful for about 15 years. I have owned every high-end apple laptop since the G3 Wall Street. The reason I have owned every high end laptop is that one of them always seems to have a major problem a year into using it. It could be a bad hard drive, motherboard, screen problems, or an OS upgrade that doesn't upgrade well and kills my system so many times, that I say f'it and get a new machine.

If it's not a machine going down, it's the lovely hanging mac. Some app has a problem, and you get the endless rainbow of death, or better yet, a frozen screen. Now all OS' have issues, and I have always loved my Mac(s), but the time has come for me to part ways with Apple (well, except for my iPhone).

I guess the reason is their PC vs Mac ads. Yup, that is the MAIN reason. When these first came out, they made me incredibly angry due to the fact that Apple gave insinuations that the Mac never crashes, or freezes (this constantly happened to me with 10.4 and my machine died when upgrading to Leopard). Or comments about how the Mac is impervious to viruses (which we all know by know is not the case). Apple just took a bunch of stereotypes about Mac and PCs (many of which are completely wrong), and threw them in a commercial, even though most of the stuff they were saying was complete BS.

So I am done now. I am moving on and sold my dead MacBook Pro and am in the process of selling my G5 tower, and will now be using Windows newest piece of crap... Vista. So long Mac news, how I loved thee, but I can't take the smug anymore.

My thoughts (3, Insightful)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101454)

I'm not a Mac fanboy, hell I don't even own a Mac, but the biggest annoyance for me is Apple's gap in their product portfolio.

Take the laptops. The cheapest is £699. A similarly specified Dell would be about the same (or more) but for a lot of people they simply don't need everything that the MacBook offers. So if you want a laptop for email, the web and a little bit of word processing then you have a choice between a £699 MacBook or a £299 Dell. Yes the former has a bit more polish, but is it really worth the extra £400? Not for the casual/basic user.

Take Mac Mini's. There is nothing headless that sits between the most expensive Mac Mini (£499) and the cheapest Mac Pro (£1,429). I have a perfectly good monitor and I don't want to have to be forced to buy a new one every time I upgrade my PC - so I'd like to avoid the iMac.

That's about it really.

What bothers me about Apple? (5, Insightful)

Trailer Trash (60756) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101462)

What bothers me is the fact that Forbes can't write a positive article about Apple. They always have to be the spoiler, trying to find the pit instead of the tasty cherry. It's the same thing that bothers me about open source in general.

Okay, that actually is what bothers me about Forbes. You'd think after looking like complete and utter fools for letting Dan Lyons keep writing false, misleading, or just stupid articles about Linux with respect to the SCO farce, they would rein him in a bit. Instead, he starts acting like a complete ass yet again with the fake Steve Jobs thing. The negativity that they have toward any non-Microsoft (and non-SCO, as it were) software is bizarre.

Forbes should be a credible source of news, but given their level of maturity in reporting in areas for which I have a high degree of knowledge, I wouldn't trust them in any other category. Ever.

It's pathetic.

Video Cards (1)

2starr (202647) | more than 6 years ago | (#22101530)

BY FAR, it's the fact that I can't use a normal PC video card. Why is that? It's just silly. If I could do that, then I'd really have no need for a PC. Mac video cards lag behind too much and cost WAY too much.
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