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Copyright Lobbies Threaten Federal College Funding

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the i-went-to-school-in-a-very-different-time dept.

The Almighty Buck 277

plasmacutter writes "The EFF is raising the alarm regarding provisions injected into a bill to renew federal funding for universities. These new provisions call for institutions of higher learning to filter their internet connections and twist student's arms over 'approved' digital media distribution services. 'Under said provision: Each eligible institution participating in any program under this title shall to the extent practicable — (2) develop a plan for offering alternatives to illegal downloading or peer-to-peer distribution of intellectual property as well as a plan to explore technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity. Similar provisions in last year's bill did not survive committee, it appears however that this bill is headed toward the full house for vote.' Responding to recriminations over this threat to university funding, an MPAA representative claims federal funds should be at risk when copyright infringement happens on campus networks." We've previously discussed this topic, as well as similar issues.

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277 comments

{sigh} (3, Insightful)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121884)

Really ... it's enough to make you want to throw up.

Re:{sigh} (5, Insightful)

PachmanP (881352) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121910)

No it's enough to make you wish you had enough money to buy your own politicians, so you could write the laws you wanted.

Re:{sigh} (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121950)

It's enough to do both of those things, really. Fucking politicians should work for us, not the people with the most money.

I mean, seriously, I could deal with it if it was just "crack down on piracy harder", but mandating alternatives?? What the FUCK.

Re:{sigh} (4, Insightful)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121998)

These guys seem to think they are the government ... or at least, in their own minds, they feel they should be.

Re:{sigh} (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122236)

According to the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause, they are. Through the elimination of independent engineering of standard compliant hardware/software, they have legislative control over the entire consumer electronic sector through their licenses. Because they made it illegal to implement a playback device through other means, they can put any outrageous demand on their license agreements they wish, and CE firms have to eat it whole and raw, to the detriment of the customers.

Re:{sigh} (2, Insightful)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122116)

The sort of people who oppose this sort of payola are powerless to stop it, as that would require them to bribe some politicians themselves. A sort of insidious catch-22.

We could vote 'em out of office, but that didn't work too well either last year. The new ones quickly became just as evil and corrupt as the old ones.

Sigh.

Re:{sigh} (3, Interesting)

jayp00001 (267507) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122214)

We could vote 'em out of office, but that didn't work too well either last year. The new ones quickly became just as evil and corrupt as the old ones.

Sigh.


That's because we didn't vote the corrupt ones out of office, we voted already corrupt ones in to office. What should have happened is that we should have talked to our party chairperson (on whatever party that we wanted someone out of) and explained that they had 2 choices- make that guy not run for re-election and we'd stick with that party or let that guy run and we'd switch. Party chairs have far more influence than any lobby rep. Believe me these guys will listen when their phones start ringing.

Re:{sigh} (3, Interesting)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122652)

Its not really that but no congressman (here in the USA) runs a campaign in technology. Very few will openly state their feelings on the DMCA, Software Patents and fair use. While they are always telling voters of their views of the war, taxes, greenhouse gasses, abortion, the second amendment, finding out where they stand on any technology issues is nearly impossible. How I wish we had a pirate party.... or at least RMS as a senator (now that would be a sight....)

Re:{sigh} (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122736)

How I wish we had a pirate party.... or at least RMS as a senator...

All you have to do is get 51% of the voters to write him in. Time to start a political selective service program.

Re:{sigh} (4, Interesting)

novakyu (636495) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122262)

No it's enough to make you wish you had enough money to buy your own politicians, so you could write the laws you wanted.
But we do! Where do you think these MPAA and RIAA guys get their money? Us!

It doesn't matter what kind of laws they write—if we stop buying their stuff, they will eventually go out of business, fascist laws and draconian enforcements notwithstanding.

Ever since I found out more about the copyright industry vs. the public struggle, I made sure I spent absolutely nothing on what's produced by MPAA and RIAA members—no music sold through a major record label, and no movies (I used to go to theater once every month or so—not anymore). Of course, one man not handing money over to MPAA and RIAA may not make a difference, but if you and I stop making them a profit and tell everyone we know not to, one day we just might.

Re:{sigh} (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122364)

I buy indie music now, preferably by going to live shows or music festivals where I can buy a CD directly from the artist. One interesting side-effect of this decision is that I now find I am listening to more inventive, higher quality music rather than mass-marketed shit.

Re:{sigh} (2, Insightful)

MrCopilot (871878) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122298)

No it's enough to make you wish you had enough money to buy your own politicians, so you could write the laws you wanted.

Umm, we don't have to buy them, we already pay for them. We just have to act like it. Money does not keep them in office we do.

A group of voters from their district in any significant number scares the sh!t out of most Congressmen. Especially when they have petitions, signs and a few soccer moms.

Re:{sigh} (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122432)

by protecting commerce from thieves the legislature is protecting more than mere lobbyists. they're protecting jobs and taxes.
 
when you grow up a little bit maybe you'll understand how the economy works. people taking what isn't theirs but is available for sale hurts the economy. to government needs to protect the economy to protect the nation from fiscal disaster.
 
stop trying to justify your thievery. this music is not yours to take. if you think it costs too much than boycott it.

At some point, we're going to have to shoot them.. (5, Interesting)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122518)

I mean, the whole country is locked in the hands of an investment class that frowns upon any enterprise that even smacks of productivity. They would rather rake the poor over the coals with high interest just because it has a higher return. They seek to restrict and restrain any trade that offers meaningful competition. They seek to make the people believe that their subjugation is moral, and they seek to use cultural preferences to divide the nation and hide any real agenda.

Show me the candidate that wants to ban credit cards, reduce the terms of patents, or do any structural thing designed to break up the current moneyed class. There isn't one. There's no political party seeking to benefit the American people, merely, a set of dueling soulless juggernaughts, jousting, half drunk with power, over whose lords will crush the masses the most.

Re:At some point, we're going to have to shoot the (1, Insightful)

LinuxIsRetarded (995083) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122568)

Show me the candidate that wants to ban credit cards, reduce the terms of patents, or do any structural thing designed to break up the current moneyed class. There isn't one. There's no political party seeking to benefit the American people, merely, a set of dueling soulless juggernaughts, jousting, half drunk with power, over whose lords will crush the masses the most.
I'll see you in the bread line, comrade!

Re:{sigh} (0)

thomas.galvin (551471) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122742)

No it's enough to make you wish you had enough money to buy your own politicians, so you could write the laws you wanted.
It's enough to make me wish the Federal Government kept to the role our constitution outlines for it.

The power to tax is the power to destroy, and the power to withhold funding is essentially the same thing, just coming from a different angle. Intrastate travel in supposed to be the domain of the states, but the federal government takes money from the states, then gives it back to them if the pass the kind of laws the feds want. That's why the speed limit is 55 pretty much everywhere. Same story with education; the feds take money from the states, and then let them have some back if they kow-tow correctly.

"Develop a plan" (4, Interesting)

Dada Vinci (1222822) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121966)

To keep the "throw up" metaphor going, all that a university has to do to comply is to throw some ideas up in the air and call it a "plan." The key language is that a university needs to DEVELOP a plan. There's nothing saying they have to IMPLEMENT that plan. A lot of schools have started offering subsidized Yahoo!Music and Rhapsody subscriptions as a way to give their students music without having to file-share to get it. Everybody get something out of the deal--the university pays lower upstream bandwidth costs and the students get legal access to bazillions of songs. Maybe actually paying for Yahoo! isn't great for the university's budget, but nothing says they have to actually DO anything--they just have to PLAN to.

Re:"Develop a plan" (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122024)

the tacit threat is there, and like all conservative institutions, the schools will doubtless move to implement it to pre-empt further legislation should this make it to the law books.

It's time to take action [eff.org] .

P.S.
I know this wont sit well with you zonk, but the edit job on my submission has more grammatical errors than the blue collar comedy tour. Please fix it : ) ?

Re:"Develop a plan" (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122190)

Oh, I thought that the editing job was intended as a sample of the non-command of English that this legislation would help correct.

Re:"Develop a plan" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122050)

That doesn't make it acceptable. If they could force something like this through, is it that hard to believe that they will make a new law in a few years to force colleges to implement it?

Re:"Develop a plan" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122060)

I can develop and implement a plan to stop P2P filesharing.

Step 1 - Buy a server with lots of HDD space
Step 2 - Install FTP server, allow anonymous read and WRITE access
Step 3 - Place on LAN, allow only LAN access to it
Step 4 - Have students sign agreement stating that the server will not be monitored, but they are responsible for uploading illegal items to the server
Step 5 - Set up server to rotate logs every hour. Delete old logs.

There we go. No more P2P and no more illegal up/downloads.

Re:"Develop a plan" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122478)

sounds like a recipe for a server full of trojans, viruses, and the filthiest porn imaginable.

Re:"Develop a plan" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122636)

Where do I sign up?

Re:"Develop a plan" (4, Interesting)

bzipitidoo (647217) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122074)

Rather than weasel around the requirements, I'd like to see colleges take them head on. Just whip up a one line plan that says "We're not going to do anything to comply with these laws because they are impossible." Maybe a few will have the guts to go that route should this actually be passed.

Re:"Develop a plan" (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122124)

I'd like to see a load of colleges come up with the same plan - compulsory licensing - and present it to the government and the MPAA.

Re:"Develop a plan" (3, Interesting)

Comatose51 (687974) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122156)

IANAL but trying to weasel your way out of a law usually doesn't work in the court system. American laws follow the tradition of "spirit of the law" rather than "letter of the law". This is why we have judges and why jurists argue over the intent and motivation behind a law. For example, the first amendment's guarantee on freedom of speech and press would not extend to digital formats if not for this tradition since digital formats can include neither speech nor printing presses.

Re:"Develop a plan" (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122350)

That's really funny, because congrescritters put the spirit of the law into the text of the law itself.

The DMCA says point blank its provisions should not infringe on fair use, but judges have since ruled to eliminate it.

You are still correct, but only in the sense that the conservative appointed judges who rule the court system will side with whoever has the most money--E.G. Corporations--when it comes down to a court battle over rights.

private companies get eminent domain over private citizens when it's "for the betterment of the community", for instance.

Re:{sigh} (2, Insightful)

gotzero (1177159) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122008)

I think this is fantastic, but only because of the massive backlash that is going to come back from universities! They have been targeting specific ones, and in many cases getting beaten back by law schools, general counsels, etc. I am going to sit back and watch with glee as the heavy hitters from academia decide the RIAA finally overstepped too much. I do feel that I have to say that I am sure many of the people on the campus networks are doing things they should not be, but this has NOTHING to do with education money.

Re:{sigh} the start of the $0.03 dollar text (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122206)

Title says it all. Plenty of places in education where savings can be made.

Student unions would probably take the lead.

It's Free Money!!! w00t! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22121902)

Once again we see what sucking on the federal tit gets you.

When you come to rely on the government for handouts, don't be surprised when you're bitten by politics.

Re:It's Free Money!!! w00t! (1)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121968)

I was under the impression it was the other way around - i.e. letting the feds suck on your very rich tit.

Re:It's Free Money!!! w00t! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122114)

This is such a bullshit position. We subsidize schools so that the kids can learn real skills and in turn SPEND THE REST OF THEIR LIVES paying income tax that supports others (along with themselves). Don't forget that if you ever partook in public schools, universities, emergency care, used public roads, water ways, drank tap water, relied on standards in food/medince (FDA), relied on standards in material science (e.g. flame retardant material, toxicities, etc) (NIST), etc, etc, you "sucked" on the public teet.

No, it's much better to leave school to the elite like in past centuries, that way when the feudal system returns all our schooling will end once we learn how to say "yes me lord, very well!" Genius.

Re:It's Free Money!!! w00t! (2, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122186)

when the feudal system returns

You don't get it, do you? When funding for education comes from the feds, the schools are vassals to the feds. The feudal system is already here, only now it's called socialism.

Want better schools? Then keep your money away from the feds, and spend it on schools that meet your standards, not the Ruling Party's standards.

-jcr

There's no such things as free money. (4, Insightful)

Gideon Fubar (833343) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122564)

If you don't mind my asking.. how much do you currently pay to send your children (assuming you have them) to school?

Seriously, I'm interested.. a ballpark figure is fine, i don't expect you to divulge your yearly earnings for everyone to see.. I mean, sure if you feel like boasting..

Point is.. You and I (and most people on this site, i imagine) earn more than the average person. Hell, I earn more than the average American, and i do it in a foreign currency with a lower value. For you and I, picking a school for our kids is a matter of choice. But we're relatively big fish... what about all those people who can't afford private schooling? Don't their kids deserve to be (at least potentially) useful, educated and productive members of society? I mean, there's only one alternative to that, and it's being a constant drain on welfare... Frankly, i'd rather have a bunch of rich people complaining about paying taxes so that poor kids can get educated than a bunch of rich people complaining because they were repeatedly mobbed by beggars just outside their door.

Re:It's Free Money!!! w00t! (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122582)

Then keep your money away from the feds
Why not just have an armed revolution? That sounds like it would be easier.

MPAA Applauds Senate Support (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22121932)

MPAA Applauds Senator Reid's Decision to push University Copyright Compliance and Surveillance Bill. Would affect all fedrally funded unis. Read more here: news.mpaa.com/article.pl?sid=07/07/24/174240 [dwarfurl.com]

These 4-Letter Trade Groups... (4, Funny)

blcamp (211756) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121934)

...continue to do things that merit 4-letter words directed at them.

They need to learn another 4-letter term: RICO.

Industry associations declare war on youth - again (4, Insightful)

Senes (928228) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121938)

This is just another act of the **AAs wanting to bludgeon people over the head for their own profits, and whether we give them what they want or not their response will just be to want more bludgeoning. They're going to push for a copyright term extension and tougher penalties every year, there is no right amount they are shooting for but just to keep increasing them at any cost.

Re:Industry associations declare war on youth - ag (2, Interesting)

Lunarsight (1053230) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122138)

This is yet another reason to boycott the RIAA. I heard that music industry album sales took a real dive last year. Let's assist them going down even further for 2008.

As far as the MPAA goes, perhaps they also need to be reminded what happens when they bite the hand that feeds them. (Of course, if the writer's strike lasts long enough, it will leave them very economically vulnerable. What better time to boycott the bastards?)

Re:Industry associations declare war on youth - ag (1)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122662)

No that won't work, any loss in sales is always, always the "pirates" fault. Same thing with how poorly Vista has been doing, its piracy not that no one likes the songs/software you have, its always the "pirates" how dare they try to break our monopoly!!!

Re:Industry associations declare war on youth - ag (1)

radarjd (931774) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122198)

This is just another act of the **AAs wanting to bludgeon people over the head for their own profits, and whether we give them what they want or not their response will just be to want more bludgeoning.

The simple solution is simply not to consume what they produce. If nobody buys / downloads / watches what they output, they will go away.

Re:Industry associations declare war on youth - ag (3, Insightful)

Vombatus (777631) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122596)

The simple solution is simply not to consume what they produce. If nobody buys / downloads / watches what they output, they will go away.

Not true.

If no one is buying their product, they will claim that it is due to the illegal copying of their product - proving that they need more stringent laws.

Ad infinitum.

Re:Industry associations declare war on youth - ag (1)

ATMAvatar (648864) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122704)

If no one is buying their product, they will claim that it is due to the illegal copying of their product - proving that they need more stringent laws.

That may be true, but in the absence of federal subsidies, they will still go away.

Businesses cannot survive without money. It may certainly take quite some time before they finally keel over, but if people stop buying their products, RIAA/MPAA member companies will eventually die off.

It's a priority call (3, Insightful)

dpilot (134227) | more than 6 years ago | (#22121988)

Apparently it's simply more important to protect ??AA profits than it is to have an open and freethinking educational system. Signs of this are all over the place, from both parties. Evolution, anyone? Anyone wonder how soon teaching that the universe is older than 6000 years will be challenged, or Galileo will rejoin the ranks of heretics?

We're on the road!

Re:It's a priority call (1)

phoenixwade (997892) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122162)

Apparently it's simply more important to protect ??AA profits than it is to have an open and freethinking educational system. Signs of this are all over the place, from both parties. Evolution, anyone? Anyone wonder how soon teaching that the universe is older than 6000 years will be challenged, or Galileo will rejoin the ranks of heretics?

We're on the road!
Okay, did you skip contemporary history in school? There is very little going on in the manipulation of Colleges and universitys that isn't the same as was being done 35-40 years ago, in America. Hell some of the topics are even the same.

Re:It's a priority call (3, Insightful)

Technician (215283) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122676)

Apparently it's simply more important to protect ??AA profits than it is to have an open and freethinking educational system. Signs of this are all over the place, from both parties. Evolution, anyone? Anyone wonder how soon teaching that the universe is older than 6000 years will be challenged, or Galileo will rejoin the ranks of heretics?


Who cares? The next generation won't need a college education unless they want to move to a technology leader country such as Japan or China. The US will simply move down the ladder to 3rd world status. When the out of work Americans can't afford iPods and high speed internet anymore, the problem will go away.
(end rant)
It is important to have universities teach. This attack on education (it isn't support in any way) is outside the scope of what a university is all about. I hope this doesn't get traction and stuff that helps higher learning instead of attacking it gets traction.

Old News (2, Informative)

techno-vampire (666512) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122020)

The story links to an article that was posted on November 19, 2007! From what it says, the bill's already been debated. Isn't this just a tad out of date?

Nope.. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122078)

The main story [eff.org] from the EFF blog is dated jan 14th '08

Re:Old News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122160)

Isn't this just a tad out of date?
oh come on, that's part of the slashdot charm! articles from last year, inflammatory summeries/articles, dupes and outright trolling- it wouldn't be slashdot without it.

Segment of the article (5, Informative)

cbart387 (1192883) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122030)

Here is the segment in question. It doesn't look as dire as what the summary makes it out to be ... at least to me

SEC. 494. CAMPUS-BASED DIGITAL THEFT PREVENTION.
            (a) In General- Each eligible institution participating in any program under this title shall to the extent practicable--

                        (1) make publicly available to their students and employees, the policies and procedures related to the illegal downloading and distribution of copyrighted materials required to be disclosed under section 485(a)(1)(P); and

                        (2) develop a plan for offering alternatives to illegal downloading or peer-to-peer distribution of intellectual property as well as a plan to explore technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity.

Re:Segment of the article (1)

Bageloid (1131305) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122108)

So the goal of this really isn't to prevent piracy, it's to legally force music sales in colleges if you look at (1).

Joy.

Re:Segment of the article (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122150)

as well as a plan to explore technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity.


The only thing the colleges are legally obligated to do under the DMCA is provide identities if they are capable.

Through that lense, I call censoring the internet connections of college students and making their moral decisions for them pretty "over the line" myself.

Why not put a pro-life clause into the bill too... require universities to make publicly available their policies and procedures related to abortion and explore technology based deterrents to such immoral activity.

Re:Segment of the article (1)

Anarchitect_in_oz (771448) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122530)

So to for fill part 2 the college could start their own record label, providing a massive discount to students of the college, and selling the product on iTunes to make more money, out of the mums dad, and younger sibling who want to be cool like thier Elders.

It's not like they have to go far to find bands to sign up, and sure most of them are utter crap. Still most signed artists are.

If they want to have fun they could take technological measure to stop peer to peer of RIAA music.
Then sit back an watch RIAA panic when they realize (many, many year later) they have lost their channel not only the market place, but also the talent.

Ron Paul would save us (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122082)

Ron Paul is an Aspie [aspiesforronpaul.com] and would save us from this problem!!!!

Slippery Slope (1)

sickspeed6 (1057634) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122104)

While i agree, all a univ. has to do is create a plan, in 2 years, there will be a new fed. funding law and it will require implementation of the plan, and then ISP's will be required to create a plan, and then they will have to implement a plan, and so on and so on.

Re:Slippery Slope (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122134)

So, if my plan is to pass a law requiring compulsory licensing for all works in certain domains, will the next law requiring it to be implemented implicitly enforce compulsory licensing? What if, say, all of the Ivy League schools propose compulsory licensing as their solution?

Re:Slippery Slope (1)

sickspeed6 (1057634) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122196)

No, you are right, it wouldn't be a guarantee, i guess i will clarify, it is easier to get away with so long as it is introduced in small stages. Its happened in the past and it will happen again. Slowly take away freedom, and then all of a sudden, there are no freedoms left.

We are all criminals in their eyes! (5, Interesting)

Doug52392 (1094585) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122110)

I've noticed this a lot lately, any government agency, lobbyist group, or any group that is supposed to be fighting crime views every single person in the world as criminals.

In the eyes of the federal government, we are all terrorists, so our Constitutional rights should be taken away.

In the eyes of Comcast and Verizon, we all use our Internet connections that we pay for to do illegal stuff, so we should have our Internet connections regulated, censored, and spied on.

In the eyes of the MPAA and RIAA, we are all illegal software pirates that deserve to be sued for millions of dollars.

And in the eyes of collages and universities across the United States, we are all criminals who are plotting school shootings and bombings, and deserve to have the FBI raid our dorms, be arrested, and be kicked out of collage.

See the picture here? Everyone thinks that if they label every single person on Earth as a criminal, it will make all our problems go away. But they are wrong. They are all wrong.

The federal government thinks they are keeping us safe by treating every single American as a terrorist plotting to blow up the country, but what about the people who actually are plotting something like that? They would never catch them because they would be too bush prosecuting innocent people to notice!

With airports locked down tightly thesse days, travelers are annoyed by all the security checks and security stuff to make sure people don't have weapons. But the people who actually want to do harm could probably easily smuggle that kind of stuff by them.

And for all the piracy bullshit, they think that shoving the DMCA and RIAA lawyers in everyone's faces will stop the 1% of people who ACTUALLY steal software, movies, and music, while the other 99% of us suffer. But it WON'T! Hell, I'm getting very tempted to start illegally putting brand new movies on BitTorrent just to stick it to the RIAA, MPAA, etc. If we're all criminals in these people's eyes, what would it matter? Personally I don't agree with downloading movies and music (with music sucking with that rap crap, what is there to download?), but I don't think it should be a federal crime punishable with million dollar fines and stuff.

When will they learn, the government and RIAA can't solve all their problems like this!

Re:We are all criminals in their eyes! (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122496)

I've noticed this a lot lately, any government agency, lobbyist group, or any group that is supposed to be fighting crime views every single person in the world as criminals.
Not quite. The idea is to curtail the rights that we don't use much in order for increased security. In the case of the government, it's at least directly for our own protection. No-one actually believes that everyone on Earth is a terrorist. OTOH, I can imagine some deranged person believing that everyone with an internet connection has pirated something at some time...

Re:We are all criminals in their eyes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122740)

I agree completely. This seems to go along with the logic of "only sick people take pills" and "If you make guns illegal our streets will be safer since no-one will have a gun." Perhaps the reason that people "pirate" software/music/movies is that the legal options impose so many restrictions that the product becomes effectively unusable. This has been demonstrated time and time again with things like the Sony rootkit fiasco, and the scourge known as SecureRom.

Higher Learn (come on, EDITors) (3, Interesting)

ill stew dottied ewe (962486) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122780)

As a student at an "institution of higher learn" (guess which one) I have experienced these attempts to control filesharing. There was a point where internet connections were being turned off due to high traffic, assuming 4GB over bittorrent was always "evil." I am a CS student, and I have several distros on my computer. I heard about this just in time to stop sharing them, as I can't afford to lose my connection to the internet or the internal Unix machines (our programs must run on them). They have backed off, and claim that only illegal filesharing will be punished, but I don't trust them, they have failed too many times. It is not the place of the internet provider, be they a university or a business, to filter and decide what bits are evil. They will, without fail, punish the innocent.

The Amish Method. (5, Funny)

Deathlizard (115856) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122136)

Frankly there's only two ways you can stop piracy from happening on college grounds.

1) Buy everyone in the school music accounts to download music thus rasing the tutition, Which enrages students and punishes students who prefer going to buy their music at music stores, and will ultimetly result in retention levels dropping in an already competitive market as it is.

Or

2) The Amish Method. Cut the internet cable since there's nothing on the market that can assure 100% piracy free internet, ban all computers since they can make MP3's using a line in jack and a CD player, and ultimely ban electric power from everywhere on campus, since they could possibly use electricy to copy a tape with a boombox or operate an electric guitar.

At least the english, math and history professors would be happy with #2, since calculators would be banned and people would have to be forced to write their thesis's on parchment. Of course, Victrolas would have to be banned too, but it's hard finding a wind up one these days. Maybe they'll come back in vogue.

Re:The Amish Method. (1)

MulluskO (305219) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122216)

#2 isn't such a bad idea.

I worked at a tech for a residential network at a large university. Let the students contract with private providers, some of the students were doing this anyway after the guys in charge of the connection implemented a hare-brained QoS scheme. The cost per student may actually go down, liability is erased, and the students get better service.

Re:The Amish Method. (1)

Deathlizard (115856) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122300)

it doesn't matter. Have a computer lab in the college? well that can be used to download music or burn CD's or even make an MP3 file using the sound card's line in jack. you better have that policy in place to spy / restrict that lab to only authorized personnel. Of course I guess you can disable the Internet and sound card and CDROM's and USB ports so that it's basicially a dumb terminal, or use DOS 6.22 (Can't use Windows. Sound recorder is there and it makes it easy to pirate. Maybe Windows 386 would work.)

And remember. They can pirate with that Stereo in their room. So once they do pirate the music using their liability free network connection, they can burn it to CD and play it in their stereos and BAM! Everyone in that Dorm that heard it is a pirate! You better have a policy to arrest that guy, since he used your power grid to broadcast his pirate booty to the entire dorm. Maybe fine the entire dorm since someone may hum or whistle it down the hall.

I agree with this... (3, Interesting)

sean22190 (1076889) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122148)

Messing with college kids always goes over well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Vietnam_War [wikipedia.org]

Re:I agree with this... (2, Insightful)

mouko (1187491) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122192)

Being a college kid, I can safely say that most of my peers will have no idea about this bill until after it has been passed and the DRM tools are in place.

Re:I agree with this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122538)

i hope so. and i hope if you're a music thief that you get beat down by the man and made to pay for it.
 
you have no right to take this material for free. pay for it, jerkoff, or don't listen to it at all.

Re:I agree with this... (1)

stuff and such (980278) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122828)

seconded, although I don't know about making the assumption that my peers will ever realized what's going on. When I try to explain what DRM is to most people, I just get a blank stare.

So, don't take federal funds. (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122170)

This is a constant problem with life on the government teat. It makes you subject to the control of the government, whether or not the subject at hand is within their constitutional powers to regulate.

-jcr

The Universities Answer; (4, Funny)

paiute (550198) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122212)

Anyone employed by the RIAA has his or her degree(s) annulled. Let's see how many lawsuits are accepted by the courts from a bunch of laypersons with only high school diplomas.

It's easy to be against - solution? (-1, Troll)

Depris (612363) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122224)

I understand where everyone is coming from regarding extreme laws... but honestly I've been to college... and all most people do in their dorms is sit around and 'steal' movies and music. It would be nice if movies and music were free... but they cost a lot of money to make and a lot of work goes into them... older methods of distribution just aren't effective... and at the same time everyone (including the artists) is basically losing money... and if they just let that happen one day they won't have much money. So whats the solution? Come up with a solution... It doesn't do anyone any good to say "that doesn't happen"... because I'm here to tell you that yes it does... a lot. The only reason I was against any laws holding people responsible (at least to some degree) for copyright infringement is because the government was fascist and the punishments were extreme... and because they were trying to use the courts/criminal charges to force people. The real solution is for technology experts on both sides to come up with a way to deter it. It will never be completely erased... and the average person isn't even smart enough to use all the tools currently available... but giving everyone the ability to just log on to a p2p program and download whatever they want instead of buying it will lead to a bankrupt industry for music and movies. I don't know about you but most of my favorite movies weren't made in someones garage with a new mac. It's nice when people do that... but no I don't want to see professional art disappear in favor of someones amateur attempts.

Re:It's easy to be against - solution? (0, Troll)

Depris (612363) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122244)

well it's not all they do heh ... but in terms of using the computer thats what they do... kids today are really dumb... they might be using their computer to write something... but most of the time it's movies and music. People always seem to point to free art... and claim the "beethoven" model works. Okay friend.. it's not the middle ages... it's the 21st century... that model "doesn't work" anymore. I saw a free song called "poop in the pool". ... I have no interest in that. I do have a lot of interest in "good music" like Pink Floyd. One of them is free ... the other one is not.

Re:It's easy to be against - solution? (2, Insightful)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122344)

First of all... paragraphs, dude. o.O

Second of all, no one is necessarily opposed to cracking down on piracy, we're opposed to the bullshit "you must offer an alternative" clause. Why don't we have all businesses making doing business with them mandatory while we're at it?

Re:It's easy to be against - solution? (3, Insightful)

celle (906675) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122500)

"but giving everyone the ability to just log on to a p2p program and download whatever they want instead of buying it will lead to a bankrupt industry for music and movies."

Wow, freedom of choice, that's new. And they're already bankrupt. Wouldn't it be great if it were in dollars too? Then we'd be rid of these distractions that waste our physical and financial lives.

"I don't know about you but most of my favorite movies weren't made in someones garage with a new mac. It's nice when people do that... but no I don't want to see professional art disappear in favor of someones amateur attempts."

Everyone was an amateur once. Amateurs existed before there was an industry and they will after it is gone. Professional art, the tastes of the arrogant running roughshod over the tastes of everyone else.

Since When Is This Our Problem? (5, Insightful)

Comatose51 (687974) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122252)

Using the Federal government's power to force universities into compliance with **AA demands is the equivalent of using our collective resources to help/save a company/industry's problems. If we extend the **AA's analogy and reasoning, we might as well go around the world attacking countries that compete with us commercially. GM losing market shares to Toyota? Bomb Japan! Oracle losing to SAP? Bomb Germany! Windows losing to Linux and OSS? Assassinate Linus and arrest Stallman!

Copyright violations is a problem that affects a group of companies and an industry. Why should we be forced to collectively pay for their outdated business model/practices? How does this benefit the rest of us? If you don't think we'll end up paying for this, imagine what happens when universities don't get their Federal funding and our students don't get their education. Higher education is an absolute necessity for a productive country.

Re:Since When Is This Our Problem? (1)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122430)

If we extend the **AA's analogy and reasoning, we might as well go around the world attacking countries that compete with us commercially.
Shhhhh!! They can hear you.

Re:Since When Is This Our Problem? (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122608)

I've noticed this a lot lately, any government agency, lobbyist group, or any group that is supposed to be fighting crime views every single person in the world as criminals.
Countries actually do take actions against countries like that if a local industry is threatened. They impose trade tariffs to balance out the difference, so as to encourage back the local industry and help the economy. However, it's been shown time and again that free trade works even better. As for Linus and Stallman, that would be illegal.

Copyright violations is a problem that affects a group of companies and an industry.
It primarily affects a group of corporations and all the commercial indie artists out there, which then affects their customers, which covers an overwhelming majority of people. Plus, like with the foreign competition, the economic benefits of preventing the self-destruction of a profitable local industry affect everyone through quality of life benefits.

Why should we be forced to collectively pay for their outdated business model/practices?
Hopefully, if there's any need to use this proposed law, funding cuts will make up for money spent on enforcement.

I also have never been satisfactorily explained why the model is outdated. The model is created on copyright law, which is still very current. Copyright law was created to avert the inevitable cultural disaster that came with increased copying and communication potential. The need for copyright law has significantly grown with the internet and P2P. If anything, copyright law and the business model based upon it are less outdated than ever.

Re:Since When Is This Our Problem? (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122674)

I also have never been satisfactorily explained why the model is outdated. The model is created on copyright law, which is still very current. Copyright law was created to avert the inevitable cultural disaster that came with increased copying and communication potential. The need for copyright law has significantly grown with the internet and P2P. If anything, copyright law and the business model based upon it are less outdated than ever.
Living up to your nick I see.

Proper Outlets (5, Insightful)

kemushi88 (1156073) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122266)

Every time something like this happens, I send $20 to the EFF. If you are equally outraged, I would encourage you to do the same.

Re:Proper Outlets (1)

zsau (266209) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122802)

Leaked email:

To: Mitch Bainwall <chairman-at-riaa.com>; Dan Glickmann <president-at-mpaa.org>
From: president-at-eff.org
Subject: Thanks again!

Thankyou RIAA & MPAA, keep up the good work. Every time you make one of these moves, we get a little extra money.

no illegal activity (4, Insightful)

fermion (181285) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122306)

Why limit this to filesharing? The only reason that this causes a problem is because it discriminates against other equally vicious crimes. Let's just put a general clause in the student loan and other funding bills that requires colleges to remove funding if colleges do not go to all measures to prevent the illegal activities of the students.

For instance, no one under 21 is supposed to drink. Most students at colleges are under 21, so clearly colleges should do more to make sure that alcohol is not available to the majority of the students.

I would also certainly think the software distributors would want the same protections, and representatives like the BSA has a zero tolerance policy. If one piece of pirated software is found on one computer on the campus, revoke all the funding.

i also know from pretty good sources that our college campuses are swarming with stolen calculators. Underage kids steal them, and then sell to college kids for half price. It is hard to prosecute the college kids for receiving stolen property, btu easy enough to revoke funding if the school does not put into place a program to teach the kids that stealing is wrong. Because, obviously, the problem is not that the temptation of cheap calcultors, but that they students were never taught right from wrong.

Who makes money here? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122324)

maybe them? [redlambda.com]

Re:Who makes money here? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122438)

Thank you for the free advertisement, we're getting thousands of hits from this page. I'm sure you'll find our products excellent.

Regards,

Richard McEnroe
CIO REDLAMBDA INTERNAZIONAL

"It all comes back as blowback." (1)

doyoulikeworms (1094003) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122354)

And believe me it will. You've raised a generation to fear and hate you. Good luck winning them back when they're in power.

Re:"It all comes back as blowback." (1)

dmadzak (997352) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122462)

You are so funny. They will just buy off the next generation of politicians. You think we are the first generation that wanted to change how things are done. Look at the Baby Boomers they were so right and were going to show the old folk how to make the world a better place. All they did was screw it up more.

University Money (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122382)

What they (MPAA & RIAA) want is money from tax payers. The university must subscribe to a solution for all students whether said student uses it or not. Plus filter and turn over to them the traffic records for all student based connections. They don't care about the 98% who they will hurt if funding gets cut.

write or call you representative and tell them what a crock this is.

Not a bad idea?" (3, Interesting)

zotz (3951) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122402)

"(2) develop a plan for offering alternatives to illegal downloading or peer-to-peer distribution of intellectual property as well as a plan to explore technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity."

Here is the beginnings of one such plan...

2.a. When it comes to music, music that does not have a Free License is not allowed on the campus networks. Net even legally purchased music if it doesn't have a Free License.

2.b. The University has set up a server at freemusic.university.edu where we host music with licenses as described in 2.a.

all the best,

drew

Re:Not a bad idea?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22122562)

I have to agree with you Drew.

I am disgusted with the perversion of fair use I see in our universities.
These kids are our future but also low grade common criminals who need re-education when it comes to theft of music.

These location are rampant with illegal non fair use exchange of music content, I would dare say no fair use happens.
What society expects of persons should be explained to these miscreants, pay your taxes, get a job, don't steal ANYTHING. Don't harm those you can't see. Its NOT ok to sanction or rationalize this kind of awful thieving behavior. Students DO need educating on the subject and they DO need alternatives to crime.

The rest of the posts in the thread appear to come from thoes who want to call evil good.
Cal evil evil boys while your waking up and smelling the coffee
Geesh

Re:Not a bad idea?" (2, Interesting)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122656)

Here is the beginnings of one such plan...

2.a A single, purchased copy (at educational discount prices) of all copyrighted works (music and movies) shall be placed in the university library. Additional federal funding will be required to purchase these works, however such funds could be covered by an additional tax on the record labels.

2.b Students will have 24hr online streaming access to the university library, so long as they play/view one work at a time.

      After all, turnabout is fair play.

Special Place (5, Insightful)

Twitchie (1023865) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122412)

Well, that makes me about sick. "Let's sacrifice the education of our youth and the future of the nation by cutting funding to ensure Hollywood makes an extra few dollars." I guess when universities have to reduce programs and students begin getting denies admission, we will be able to more easily secure the "dumbest nation on earth" status. But hey, at least the movie and music industries will get their money. How bright do you have to be to sit in a meeting and say "We can't find anyone smart enough to invent a technology to control this. Well, let's go ahead and stifle education. Maybe increasing the ignorance in a population will create a genius to write the software we need." The more people that complete college = more people with good jobs = less people that feel the need to use p2p for music and movies. Apparently these lawyers are from the future where the education system was butchered. They're obviously products of such a system. Wonder which country we stole the time-travel tech from because we sure as hell didn't invent it. There's going to be a special place for folks someday.

I'm sorry, but this is an all-time grammatical low (4, Insightful)

siglercm (6059) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122550)

I'm afraid (of losing karma because) I'm the one to point out that the emperor has no clothes. Quotes from this article as posted at this moment:

"These new provision"
"institutions of higher learn"
"We've previous discussed"

(At least) Three gross errors in one posted article. And to think that this is about federal funding for public colleges and universities. I humbly submit we need more.

How does this work? (2, Insightful)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22122576)

Even if Downloading == Stealing like the RIAA wants you to believe, does the federal government cut off funds to schools with a high rate of crime? What if a group of students steal from a store does that warrant federal funds to be cut off? What about underage drinking and illegal drugs being used? I don't see how the RIAA convinces people that unauthorized downloading is a capital crime, if we don't do it for stealing or substance use, why do it for downloading. If only congress had a mind that could think for itself....
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