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The Pirate Bay Tops 10 Million Users

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the my-word-it's-a-convoy dept.

The Internet 300

An anonymous reader suggests we go over to Slyck for news that The Pirate Bay has cracked 10 million users. The publicity from the upcoming court case probably helped. "Today, The Pirate Bay asserts itself as the self-proclaimed 'World's Largest Tracker' by topping over 10 million peers, while managing over 1 million torrents. Peter Sunde of The Pirate Bay told Slyck, 'We're very happy to be part of all of this and we hope our users keep sharing those files!... And we're looking to break 20 million as well.'"

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300 comments

10 million users? (-1, Troll)

d_jedi (773213) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198520)

More like 10 million pirates.

Re:10 million users? (5, Informative)

Seumas (6865) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198536)

Pirating is something organized criminals selling copyrighted content for money on the streets in Malaysia do. I don't believe there are any pirates on the pirate bay. Aaargh.

Re:10 million users? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198576)

You are a pirate

Yarrr!! [youtube.com]

Re:10 million users? (5, Funny)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198610)

that reminds me. I bet they just had a "You know, we probably should have picked a different name" moment like all the not so wisely named sites out there that took off. I mean youtube is like you and tube, I mean it's genius! But you gotta wonder if the Flickr creator ever sat down and thought "too bad flicker was already taken" lol. I know I've had one of those moments. I've now written 36 very popular stories on a certain site and now 20,000 people read each one and I'm stuck with my stupid nickname that I pulled out of my ass in 30 seconds the first time. So yeah, do you think the owner of the pirate bay ever walked into the office one day and asked someone "you think the name's why they're suing us?" They might have done better with Happyland or Distributed Data Inc.
P.S. for all you literal people out there, this post was mostly half joking and not serious

It all comes down to $$$ (5, Insightful)

ihaveamo (989662) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198542)

I don't believe they do it for the love, (or some damn-fool idealistic crusade, for that matter). Anyone know how much money a site like the pir8 bay makes?? (Just banner revinue, or something more insidious)

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (2)

Starvingboy (964130) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198568)

Say what you will, the way they thumb their nose at the media bullies gains them bonus points in my book. I tip my hat to them and wish them well.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198598)

I don't believe they do it for the love, (or some damn-fool idealistic crusade, for that matter). Anyone know how much money a site like the pir8 bay makes?? (Just banner revinue, or something more insidious)

And that's why they must be evil.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (5, Insightful)

CSMatt (1175471) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198630)

All the Pirate Bay administrators are doing is providing a tracker, which can very well (and does) link to legal content as well as illegal. The fact that they are generating income from ads placed on search results is irreverent. You might as well say that Google is guilty of infringement as well, since they index both legal and illegal material with a similar business model and are constantly defending their ability to do so.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (5, Insightful)

Damon Tog (245418) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198732)

You might as well say that Google is guilty of infringement as well, since they index both legal and illegal material with a similar business model and are constantly defending their ability to do so.


A couple of other companies have used a similar argument, shortly before getting shut down. Napster and Grokster were basically search engines that could be used for both legal or illegal purposes, but the courts didn't buy it.

Google, or an ISP, can reasonably argue that they provide services that are mostly used for lawful purposes, even though some illegal activity takes place. The difficult argument that the pirate trackers are faced with is that when you are providing a service that is being used primarily to infringe copyrights, even if the service can be used to share Linux distributions, you're potentially liable.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (5, Interesting)

Alsn (911813) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198852)

Know much about Swedish law do you? Because according to every single article i've read in Swedish from a reliable source the prosecutor has no case whatsoever.

The google defense seems to be working just fine since theyve used it for years already...

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (-1, Flamebait)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199332)

I don't see how it can be a quirk of Swedish law or not, actually. The whole concept of whether something that is substantially used to break the law, but might be legitimately used, is pretty general and can apply to lots of different things.

In an extreme interpretation it'd make enforcement of some laws practically impossible. Is that a bomb in your van sir? Yes guvnor, I'm using it to teach my son chemistry. Oh goodo, carry on then.

The "google defence" works because it's possible to demonstrate that the vast majority of traffic is not infringing the law. The Pirate Bay can't do that, hell it's even in their name - they exist to allow piracy. If you put a bunch of oiks like the one interviewed on Slashdot recently in front of a judge, and they named their operation after the crime they plead they don't want to assist, how do you think that judge will react? They're flicking the Vs at the entire legal establishment and even in Sweden that sort of approach sounds dangerous to me.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

eiapoce (1049910) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198900)

Hey, let me fix that for you

A couple of other companies have used a similar argument, shortly before getting shut down. Napster and Grokster were basically search engines that could be used for both legal or illegal purposes, but United States courts didn't buy it.
You people, why can't you just grasp the concept that US law applies only on US land?

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

cart_man4524 (623980) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199008)

What about weapons
Im pretty sure about 100% of the cases where people were shot were commited with guns
but seriously...whats the point of a handgun....if not mainly to kill people....where 5% who use it as a back up in hunting and andother 5% use it for sport

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

Starvingboy (964130) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199052)

Not that you don't make a good point, but I was once shot with an arrow. On a similar vein, Sneakernet is very much alive and thriving. I know of several people who run a library of "Time shifted" DVD's.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198778)

It's always a rediculous argument. Oh it's just a tracker, wink wink nudge nudge. Oh we don't transport contraband across the border we provide trucks for both legal and illegal goods we simply don't pass judgment on those using the service. Another post claimed they only take in enough revenue to cover bandwidth. Do they do it full time? If so are they living in their parents basement? Where'd they get the money for all the equipment? It's all rationalization. Saying it's all digital information makes it all better. What if you spent five years working on a video game. You start selling the game and it's moderately popular so you start making 10K a month. Some one posts it on Pirate Bay then miraculously your revenue drops to 2K a month and you have to go back to working at Fries Electronics and you can't aford to make another video game. Is it still a victimless crime? You put five years of your life into a game and Pirate Bay benefits not you. Does it really make you feel better while you're working 9 to 5 that thousands of people are enjoying your game for free while you can't aford to make another? Go out and use the popularity to get a job at professional gaming company? So you have to work 9 to 5 at a gaming company so people can get your game for free? And what about the five years of your life? And what if the company ha to then lay you off because their games are being pirated as well? A the core it's about getting something for nothing and Pirate Bay are seen as folk heroes for providing the service while they get to make money for facilitating the pirating of copyrighted materials. This isn't about striking a blow for liberty it's about stealing other people's work. Want the game or movie or album? Pay for it. Don't want to pay for anything? There's lots of free stuff on the web. Don't like the free stuff but you like the commercial stuff? Well the commercial stuff costs money to make. Believe it or not you won't die if you don't get the new Brittany Spears album for free. When I was growing up we didn't have free downloads and some how we managed to survive. I've heard arguments that illegal downloads increase sales yet sales have steadily dropped ever since downloading became popular. At this stage it's a no win situation so I personally look forward to all the music and movie studios closing their doors. Then people will really have something to complain about. I just hope there's enough mirrors to go around so people can see who to blame. The people running those companies will just move on to another industry it's the average person that watches the movies and listens to the music that will suffer.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

kdemetter (965669) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198908)

So , if u would follow your argument , all trucks should be banned , just because they can be usesd to transport contraband.

It's like saying that Nokia should be sued because terrorist might use their phones ( insider TPB joke )

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (0, Troll)

eiapoce (1049910) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198950)

This is a full load of lies and misconceptions.
Piratebay: For the most part they are young professionals working in IT. The server are hosted at the same company that gives them work. They get some money for paying the bills.

A Poor Videogame Creator: You coward should know that a private working on a videogame usually does not recoup the costs due to lack of distribution. So either the game is acquired by a famous company and becomes a hit (quite unlikely) or the game will be offered in a bundle that actually can get some revenue despite piracy. All other options like selling 5.000 copies as you said are pure bullshit since no one will print them in the first place. And if you get to work at a software company you get a salary!!! (And I don't see EA bankrupting soon...)

I am quite sure that when you were growing you had no downloads. As much as I am sure you have been making copies of LPs on tapes!!! So stop being a whiner and start being objective.

it's the average person that watches the movies and listens to the music that will suffer.
They are telling this since 1970... I'd pirate just for the fun to see if that's true... BTW I think this is a faster way to get the work done: http://www.jamendo.com/ [jamendo.com]

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

nospam007 (722110) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199122)

When I was growing up we didn't have free downloads and some how we managed to survive. ...

Yep, we had polycopied lists of floppies to be copied and shared going around both in paper and on BBses, those were the times.

They need a different business model, it's over. They were water-sellers and now it rains every day, it's no use telling people it's 'forbidden' to reach down and drink from a puddle you must buy the water from us.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

umghhh (965931) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199320)

I would agree with moral part of your argument but I find it hard to swallow what you say about falling sales. I observed my behaviour over the years and what I see is the following. Up to say 2001 I was buying 3..4 CDs if a week was good - in average say 6..8 a month. I did it for years and then I started having two problems:
1. CD I bought had a note explaining to me that not only I am a criminal if I make a backup of this CD but that they will actively prevent me from making this backup by introducing some 'fancy' technical method.
2. At this time I also realized that CD that had this comment was not worth a dime - I did not like the music and I brought it back to the shop. I also noticed that even while I was still buying newest stuff I listened more to music from decades ago and only occasionally there was something 'relatively' new (few years old) that was worth listening again.

Consequence of both realizations is that I stopped buying. Last year I bought one CD - as a gift to my wife.
It may be that part of the CD bonanza was releasing the old stuff from Vinyl on it that caused increased sales and now people have it already. Other factors like that of price and of artistic quality play role too. I must say as soon as I had to pay copy tax on any item that can be used for copying (back up involves copying too) and when I realized I was becoming a criminal if I tried to do what I wanted with my hardware, as soon as this occurred to me I stopped having fun in buying any media in the shop.

Now you may say that copying from pirate bay or such is an immoral thing to do. The other side of the coin is at least as much immoral and unethical. I do think that we customers should pay to artists and to some extent to people that help artists produce stuff. I have no moral obligation though towards people that are trying to rip me and others off.

Now this affects you as a game writer. I am sorry. The way it works is that entertainment sucks today because there is hardly any quality there at all. I doubt this has much to do with piracy.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (4, Informative)

tero (39203) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198634)

Apparently they make back just about what they lose in bandwidth/server costs. Or so they say.
I guess that will be one of the main points in the upcoming trial.

The PB guys make it sound like it's ideal hobbyist project and the prosecution wants to paint them as IP thieves bathing in money.

Here's one article (unfortunately in Swedish)
http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/artikel_334410.svd [www.svd.se]

It "claims" PB is pulling 600k SEK / month with their ads (a sum quoted for last 4 months of activity).
That works to about USD 93k/month. PB claims most/all of the money goes to upkeep of the site, bandwidth and servers.

Interesting to see if the prosecution manages to get a coherent case out of this... I have my doubts.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (5, Informative)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198764)

I could believe PB would chew close to 93K a month in costs if they have 10 million users.

if 1/2 their registered users visit just once a month and they get another 5 million drive by's (which is easy to see happening) and the average bandwidth used per user is 0.5meg (also pretty mild) it would mean they need 5 terabytes of bandwidth spread out over multiple 100mbit links, not to mention how much all the rackspace would set them back.

if google can make billions providing ad based search results then i can't hold the PB guys to ransom over what ever measley profit they make. after all all the PB stuff is indexed on google anyway.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

kdemetter (965669) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198902)

A part is also maintenance and upgrades. You can't keep a tracker running on outdated hardware. Also , it's important to note that TPB isn't the only site they are running. They have multiple projects they work on , and spend money for that too . And there's no real problem with ads . If you want , you can even block them with adblock . If you compare that to some spyware infested p2p programs , your choice is quickly made .

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199252)

TPB has no 'registered users'. There's no signup process and no accounts. You just use it. They have no way to track distinct users, only the number of torrent clients connected simulatenously. That 10 million is people that were all online at the same time.

So your '10 million in a month' is virtually guaranteed.

(It's possible that peers came from other websites and just used TPB's tracker, and it's possible that some peers stayed connected to a torrent for a month without going to the site. I find it unlikely that either of these could prevent the above situation, though.)

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199352)

There are very clear "login" and "register" buttons on the front page.

The same page which also clearly states "9.836.934 peers", so yes, it's the number of peers that they're talking about here, not registered users.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (1)

slash.duncan (1103465) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199268)

I could believe PB would chew close to 93K a month in costs if they have 10 million users. if 1/2 their registered users visit
You apparently don't quite appreciate the magnitude of what they just announced, as mentioned in both TFS and TFA.

From the articles:

Today, The Pirate Bay asserts itself as the self-proclaimed "World's Largest Tracker" by topping over 10 million peers, while managing over 1 million torrents.

Let's consider these staggering numbers. 10 million simultaneous users represents a number never duplicated by any file-sharing entity


"Peers" actively bittorrenting are what a tracker tracks. Thus, they had 10 million accounts all active at the same time! So your "if half their [...] users visit" was only half of what you should have been considering! 10 million users all at the same time... using your estimate, that'd be 20 million regular users, and I'd consider that a low estimate, given the activity figures of say 1 in 10 at any given time that ISPs tend to use. Even if it's one in five, that's 50 million regular users, which I'd consider more likely than your one in two.

Looked at accurately, therefore, it's even more amazing. Pirate Bay doesn't even have to consider defining "regular user", as their active at any given instant numbers are so incredibly huge, they have no need to maximize or inflate the numbers using any other metric.

NB: I wonder how many of those peers are comparable bittorrent newbies, downloading that 17 gigs of myspaceprivatepicstorrent featured earlier here on /. I'm certainly in that group, having downloaded only two sets of files via bittorrent (ktorrent, FWIW) previously, Linux stuff not thru a public torrent site like PB, but having my curiosity get the best of me upon seeing that /. storry earlier, and started it up. I'm only on a cable connection, limited to 64 KB/sec (half a megabit) upload, and only averaging 70 KB/sec download, but I just passed 50% a bit ago, and expect to be done downloading some 32-ish hours from now. So I was one of those 10 million, and a new one too! =8^)

Duncan

It all comes down to bandwith. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198804)

I'm sorry but wasn't the whole justification for P2P was the "bandwith savings"?

Re:It all comes down to bandwith. (1)

kdemetter (965669) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199282)

Trust , it saves a lot of bandwith .

The files themselves are not downloaded from the tracker . The tracker is like a map , telling peers from who they can download . It controls the traffic .

But with 10M peers , even that becomes a huge amount of traffic .

Re:It all comes down to bandwith. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199354)

The tracker BW usage is around 290mbit at the 95th, and thats just for the tracking, not the website or torrent downloads.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (2, Insightful)

TheGoodSteven (1178459) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198692)

I also doubt that Smith & Wesson produce guns simply for their love of firearms. I won't reject your argument; of course if there was no money to be had they would quickly disappear. However this line of reasoning can be made toward numerous other companies with negative outcomes that are many times worse.

Re:It all comes down to $$$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198850)

You're wrong, I'm sure Smith did but I can't comment on behlaf of Wesson now that guy something altogether.

HOW MANY ARE JIGABOOS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198876)

It would be nice to know more about the demographics. Especially, where in the world are the pirates located.

Must be mostly Europeans though. Cowards. We win the war in Iraq, they lose the war in Afghanistan...

TPB is for poser faggots. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198550)

OH LOOK AT HOW LEET I AM DOWNLOADING TEH BITTORRENTS

Use superior sites like btjunkie.

Don't forget to vote Ron Paul or die.

Re:TPB is for poser faggots. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198604)

lol @ 1337 private tracker kiddies.

You, umm, know that if those 10 million people are at PirateBay that's 10 million people not sharing at your teeny tiny private tracker, right?

btw, anyone got an invite to demonoid?!!!!one!ONE!1!!!!!!? lulz

Re:TPB is for poser faggots. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198800)

Protip: btjunkie != private tracker.

Also, quality not quantity.

Re:TPB is for poser faggots. (1)

kdemetter (965669) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199290)

Who are you to judge the quality of TPB ? Or any other torrent site for that matter . It's not like you are paying for it .

Good for them (0)

NothingMore (943591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198578)

Congrats on making it to 10 million. Like them or not they have done something that no other file sharing site/service has ever been able to do. 10 million is a huge accomplishment in the uphill legal environment that they have faced.

Umm, yay? (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198602)

Sure the copyright corporations, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to root for the pirate bay either. Can't we all just get along :/

Re:Umm, yay? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198612)

suck my fagina, homie!

Suprnova? (5, Interesting)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198608)

Anybody remember what Suprnova was like at its peak? I remember that Suprnova accounted for something like 40% of the traffic online, or something ridiculously similar. How does TPB compare?

Re:Suprnova? (1)

Popsmear (828416) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198670)

Supernova alone was no where near that high. ALL torrent traffic from EVERYWHERE accounts for 35% of the internet, according to this past slashdot article: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/04/11/04/1749257.shtml?tid=99&tid=17 [slashdot.org]

Re:Suprnova? (5, Funny)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198798)

ALL torrent traffic from EVERYWHERE accounts for 35% of the internet
The remaining 65% breaks down to spam and porn.

Re:Suprnova? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198808)

It's more like 64%, the remaining 1% is Slashdot.

Re:Suprnova? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198720)

That may very well be, but wouldn't you nonetheless agree that evolution is pretty much just a theory at this point? (Theory as in, not fact, I mean.)

Re:Suprnova? (4, Funny)

houghi (78078) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198892)

According to the RIAA, TPB accounts for something between 6148.87% and 7289.42% of all trafic. That is calculated note by mere technical people but by their accountants looking at the predicted loss due to TPB.

yeah, there is lies, damn lies, statistics and the RIAA

Re:Suprnova? (4, Informative)

mxs (42717) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198916)

"suprnova" never did account for "40% of traffic online". BitTorrent did. Suprnova was just a popular BitTorrent site (among many), and its traffic was measurable in hundreds of megabits/s, not hundreds of gigabits/s

Say hello to Sweden (5, Interesting)

eebra82 (907996) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198628)

Pirate Bay now has more users than Sweden, which is at about 9 million. I wonder what the Swedish authorities think of that.

Re:Say hello to Sweden (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198810)

Sweden's users stand agape.

Re:Say hello to Sweden (1)

superash (1045796) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198864)

Pirate Bay now has more users than Sweden, which is at about 9 million.

TPB : All you sweedish are belong to us!

Re:Say hello to Sweden (2, Informative)

mxs (42717) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198922)

Well, 10 million peers. One USER can constitute many peers in the BitTorrent world -- in fact, every torrent they download is counted as one peer. So if I download 10 files from PirateBay (or seed 10 thereof), suddenly I am 10 peers.
(It's still impressive, but it's NOT 10 million users).

Hmm (1)

moogied (1175879) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198662)

Wow has 10 million users, so does Piratesbay. I don't know what joke to make now.. but someone jump in and finish it.

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199032)

10 million? WoWzArrr!

Biggest tracker and it shows (4, Insightful)

drcagn (715012) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198682)

As much as I love TPB for its antics, it really is a crappy tracker. It's hard to search and it's filled with shit.

Re:Biggest tracker and it shows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198806)

I think you're confusing "tracker" with "website". The tracker is completely different software run on separate servers. When you download from mininova or other bittorrent sites, you're often connecting to TPB's trackers. The actual ".torrent" just contains tracker URLs, filenames, file checksums, etc. Mininova or other sites may host these .torrent sites and index them on a pretty website, but they aren't responsible for ensuring your bittorrent client can find peers to download from (and upload to).

Re:Biggest tracker and it shows (1)

Ravadill (589248) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198840)

At least PB users tend to comment on the quality of the files contained in each torrent, which makes picking out bogus or just plain bad torrents pretty easy. A lot of other trackers either have no comments (public tracker) or dissalow negative (private tracker) comments.

Re:Biggest tracker and it shows (5, Informative)

dmsuperman (1033704) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198992)

The best one I ever used was Demonoid, but since they've recently gone down due to the CRIA...
You could find anything on there, and it always had seeders, and it was always well described and had a lot of comments, and there were never fakes, and it was always good quality. Demonoid just plain owned.

Re:Biggest tracker and it shows (4, Informative)

mxs (42717) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198946)

The "tracker" is not searchable at all. It's also not crappy at all -- it supports 10 million peers almost effortlessly, is build on OpenTracker (http://erdgeist.org/arts/software/opentracker/ -- there are also some tpb tracker graphs over yonder if you look around a bit : http://opentracker.blog.h3q.com/mrtg/ [h3q.com] ).

The SEARCHING part would be part of the PirateBay website, the one you get the .torrent files from. That's not a tracker (although some crappy PHP projects proclaim this to be so). It's searchable just fine, and most of it is not "shit". Of course, some elitist folks prefer "private" trackers (haha) with "enforced" ratios (bwahaha, especially if you know how BitTorrent works) and consider any file posted on such pure gold. Have fun with that.

Re:Biggest tracker and it shows (1)

JohnSearle (923936) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199022)

To play the devil's advocate here, a private tracker does help reduce virus laden, mistagged, and otherwise useless crap from the site. It's like having a legit bar that sells drugs (Amsterdam), versus a sleazy guy in a back alley. The loss in anonymity provides a little bit of assurance of the product.

That's not even to mention the fact that trackers such as TPB have a lot of people who never give back for what they take. With a leeching majority you can end up with a lacking, or almost non-existent, seeding base; this makes for terrible transfer rates. Again, with the loss of anonymity, and a closed user base, you can slowly weed out those who don't contribute, and you're left with quicker transfers.

- John

Re:Biggest tracker and it shows (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199218)

Actually, the biggest problem isn't people who don't seed, the bittorrent protocol already favours those who upload.

The problem with transfer rates is caused by the fact that a large majority of bittorrent users are on ADSL. ADSL can have as bad as 1/100th the upload speed to its download speed. Bittorrent depends very heavily on users' upload bandwidth to work: You can't download faster than the seeds you're connected to can upload.

Sweden is Communist (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198686)



All of mp3, pirate bay, exist because country is communist and cares nothing of west "IP". How come no one pirates communist country stuff? Cause no one there creates, only steals. Good for them as long as they stay in there communist country.

Re:Sweden is Communist (3, Informative)

noTimeAtAll (1212430) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198920)

You apparently don't know what's communism. If you see communism as an ideology where people steal and eat each other, you should consider visiting Wikipedia on this matter.

But remember kids - piracy actually *helps* people (-1, Troll)

Dobeln (853794) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198754)

...because they only download movies they wouldn't watch otherwise.

And shows they watch anyways. For "backup" purposes.

And computer programs and games they are thinking about getting. For evaluation purposes.

And we could just switch to FOSS movies, TV and computer programs anyways. It has to be true - I read it on Slashdot!

Re:But remember kids - piracy actually *helps* peo (5, Insightful)

Mike89 (1006497) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198832)

because they only download movies they wouldn't watch otherwise.
I download movies I wouldn't pay to see at the cinema. If I like it, I buy the DVD.

And shows they watch anyways. For "backup" purposes.
Half of the shows I like aren't broadcast in my country, and if they are, in no particular order.

And computer programs and games they are thinking about getting. For evaluation purposes.
I can't argue with you on this one, but a lot of the community here uses all freeware/open source and has no need to pirate shitty overpriced software.

Maybe if the Pirate Bay is able to make so much money off this, the RIAA/MPAA should get smart and do the same. I'd happily buy the TV shows and movies I download now if there was a legitimate way to pay for them and get them in a format that I actually wanted (Xvid, please). If DVDs didn't have 10 minutes of forced watching at the start, they'd get more sales out of them too. Do you really think the multi-million (billion?) dollar corporations need you here to stand up for them?

Re:But remember kids - piracy actually *helps* peo (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199058)

Maybe if the Pirate Bay is able to make so much money off this, the RIAA/MPAA should get smart and do the same.
If you're the grand central clearing house for everything digital, you make up for it on volume. There's no way TBP makes anywhere as much as legitimate sales. But if TPB gets a cut of every song, every movie, every tv show, every application, every game, every porn clip ever produced then it all adds up. If I could collect one dollar in taxes from everyone I'd make 8 billion dollars a year and I think people would say I was making lots of money. I guess you could imagine what would happen if you asked the government to "get smart" and only collect one dollar in taxes?

Re:But remember kids - piracy actually *helps* peo (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199064)

I download movies I wouldn't pay to see at the cinema. If I like it, I buy the DVD.
Actually, I went to cinema several times only because I saw a movie at home this way. I mean, after seeing certain things, I sometimes want to see them really *big* (no, not what you think! :-D). I think the movie studios won more than they lost with me this way. :-)

Re:But remember kids - piracy actually *helps* peo (4, Insightful)

kamapuaa (555446) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199080)

I download movies I wouldn't pay to see at the cinema. If I like it, I buy the DVD.

So you don't rent them? If such movies really don't have any value to you, why do you bother seeking them out, and then spend your time watching them? Why don't you download the freely available movies on (say) archive.org? Obviously you think they're better in some way.

I can't argue with you on this one, but a lot of the community here uses all freeware/open source and has no need to pirate shitty overpriced software.

I very much doubt the amount of people browsing Slashdot from a Linux computer is more than a couple percent. Anyway if the software is shitty & overpriced, does that make it OK to steal it? Wouldn't that just drive people into using freeware/open source? Most Slashdot discussion of high-profile open source projects is given to how shit they are - Gimp comes to mind.

Your after-the-fact rationalizations are absurd. Just admit that you can steal easily and there's likely no direct personal consequences, so you go ahead and do it.

Re:But remember kids - piracy actually *helps* peo (1)

Mike89 (1006497) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199142)

So you don't rent them?
No. They come out at least six months later on DVD.

If such movies really don't have any value to you, why do you bother seeking them out, and then spend your time watching them?
Unless it's something I'm really dieing to see, I'll download it then buy it when it eventually comes out on DVD. The cost of going to the cinema is ever-rising where I live, but the quality is also ever-decreasing. It's not stealing if I pay for it..

Why don't you download the freely available movies on (say) archive.org?
Didn't know about it, anything good there you'd recommend? I'm typically into comedies and actions.

Anyway if the software is shitty & overpriced, does that make it OK to steal it? Wouldn't that just drive people into using freeware/open source? Most Slashdot discussion of high-profile open source projects is given to how shit they are - Gimp comes to mind.
I suppose not, but there are many grey areas in the computer world (Didn't you get the memo about not calling it 'stealing'?). If there was a way for me to reliably open/edit .doc files without MS Office, I'd do so. It's not OO.org's fault they have to reverse engineer the formatting (isn't this against the law too now?), and I'm certainly not financially supporting Microsoft to keep their format monopoly. Each to their own, I suppose.

Just admit that you can steal easily and there's likely no direct personal consequences, so you go ahead and do it.
If that's the way you see it, fine. I pay for DVDs which is a lot more than anybody else here would do (not that I'd condemn them for doing so). If you have a problem with it, feel free to go buy more overpriced DVDs to make up for it.

Oh, and you're right with 'stealing is easy'. If I could get (and pay for) TV shows I like in a legal way, I'd do that.. but I can't.. how is it my fault for picking the ONLY option available to me (other than not watching it?).

Re:But remember kids - piracy actually *helps* peo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199296)

So you don't rent them? If such movies really don't have any value to you, why do you bother seeking them out, and then spend your time watching them? Why don't you download the freely available movies on (say) archive.org? Obviously you think they're better in some way.
because i live in the sticks/on the countryside. i've got 13mbit which means a dvd takes roughly 1h to download (or 10 min for a xvid). to drive and rent a movie i'd have to drive 55km, meaning i have to waste an hour AND i have to pay for both the movie and the drive. if i had the option to rent online, i would

and i'm sure then the options to rent do come out here (sweden), i'm sure they won't be available to mac owners

Re:But remember kids - piracy actually *helps* peo (1)

Standard User 79 (1209050) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199120)

Do you really think the multi-million (billion?) dollar corporations need you here to stand up for them?

No, but people who create content do. It might feel good sticking it the man but if consumers refuse to respect copyright, creators loose the ability to assign any rights their work.

Why someone needs to stand up for the RIAA (2, Insightful)

Dobeln (853794) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199348)

"I download movies I wouldn't pay to see at the cinema. If I like it, I buy the DVD."
I download movies, then... well, I sure as hell don't go out and buy a DVD. I'm fairly certain there is a substantial number of people like me among TPB users.

"Half of the shows I like aren't broadcast in my country, and if they are, in no particular order."
I know, being able to watch The Wire Season five the day after it was on in the US is great. For me. But will I watch it again when it shows up on basic/medium cable in a year or two? The question sort of answers itself, no?

"I can't argue with you on this one, but a lot of the community here uses all freeware/open source and has no need to pirate shitty overpriced software."
I am curious - if the "overpriced" (I.e. price>0) software is indeed "shitty", why do so many people pirate it on sites like TPB instead of downloading the superior FOSS alternatives?

Maybe if the Pirate Bay is able to make so much money off this, the RIAA/MPAA should get smart and do the same.
Hmm... perhaps running a torrent site where you offer what others have produced for free is a different business proposition compared to actually *producing* the movies/TV shows/software on offer? Nah.

If DVDs didn't have 10 minutes of forced watching at the start, they'd get more sales out of them too.
Probably, yes. But that's a marginal issue, and you know it.

Do you really think the multi-million (billion?) dollar corporations need you here to stand up for them?
So it seems, considering I got modded "Troll" for merely offering up a contrary viewpoint to the self-serving Slashdot groupthink.

Pay them to work (4, Insightful)

Mr2001 (90979) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198928)

And we could just switch to FOSS movies, TV and computer programs anyways. It has to be true - I read it on Slashdot!
No need. Here's a novel idea: how about paying people to create movies, TV, and computer programs?

You know, paying them directly for working, for doing what they enjoy and are good at. Not for making copies, which is something any trained monkey with a DVD burner can do.

Recording a song, filming a movie, or writing a program takes just as much effort, and deserves just as much compensation, no matter how many copies are eventually made. At least that's what common sense tells us. Copyright, however, links the author's compensation to the number of copies he can sell -- which makes little sense on its face, and no sense at all in a world where copying is a trivial matter that anyone can perform for himself, with no skill or investment needed. Authors and consumers alike would benefit from a more sensible business model.

Re:Pay them to work (1)

Standard User 79 (1209050) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199172)

Well I would say copyright works pretty well. Paying someone directly for working is useful in certain cases but you can't pay everyone who wants to create something. Copyright rewards the creator who takes the risk and investment into a work.

Well, it sure helps *ME* (2, Insightful)

Smordnys s'regrepsA (1160895) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198940)

...because they only download movies they wouldn't watch otherwise.
Wouldn't watch at the current prices, yes. If I wasn't downloading, I would be waiting for the DVD. Even then, I wouldn't be buying - I'd rent or borrow. I'll start paying for things when they start setting a price I like, in a respectable time frame. If they released the DVD the same day/week/month as the theatrical release, then they would see more of my money. I'd pay a little extra DVDs that come out early, but still have special features/deleted scenes/etc.

Same with the programs and games - need something decent but more my price range, or they'll continue to lose out on any of my money - though I usually just stick with freeware, so I can share my love with uptight "I just want to stay legal" friends.

Did I just feed the trolls? Sorry.

Well, it sure helps *ME*- download. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199000)

Interesting you left open all those "outs" in your argument. Not the right price? Not on time? You'd be a far more impressive specimen if you simply said "I will not touch copyrighted content in any kind of fashion", but that's apparently asking too much of the "instant-on" generation. Here let me take your snapshot with my "borrowed" camera so I can show artists everywere, choose another profession. This one's tainted.

10e6 is a relatively small number (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198784)

What strikes me most is that 10e6 is a much smaller number than I expected. Sure, it's more than the population of Sweden, but when you compare it to say the population of Europe, or the total amount of internetters, it is really dwarfed. Of course, there are a lot of other trackers out there, but they tend to have even less users.

Re:10e6 is a relatively small number (1)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199078)

All I know is that in the right (wrong) circumstances, 10e5 is a hopelessly large number.

I'm looking at you and your roses, "We Love Katamari"!

1:10?!? (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198790)

For every torrent on PB there are ten users? I find that unbelievable. That means that only one out of ten (maximum) are sharing new content, which seems very low for Bittorrent. Of course, one should hope that the majority are seeding the rest of files, but I still find it to be a lopsided economy when over 90% of users are not contributing content.

Re:1:10?!? (2, Insightful)

darkhitman (939662) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198818)

Of course, one should hope that the majority are seeding the rest of files
You must be new to Bittorrent.

Re:1:10?!? (1)

Alsn (911813) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198866)

As long as a torrent is 'active' it doesn't matter if people are continously seeding as long as enough people have set their clients to stop uploading first when their upload has matched their download(which most clients do per default today).

Re:1:10?!? (1)

dmsuperman (1033704) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198988)

That's believable, a majority of the users just get on to download. That also means only 1m tracked, not 1m total uploaded. Torrents get deleted all the time.

Re:1:10?!? (1)

Eddi3 (1046882) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199132)

You must be used to private trackers. On public trackers, anything goes.

The upside with public trackers is that you generally get a lot more visitors, which translates into a lot more content, and cash to the creators of the website via ads.

eMule, Gnutella, Gnucleus & Tom Slyck (4, Insightful)

Antiocheian (859870) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198878)

I just had a look at the news section and I think slyck.com seems to be aware of two p2p networks only: Bittorrent and Limewire (not generally Gnutella, just Limewire).

The only time Slyck mentioned eMule was when he questioned the reasoning of Sourceforge in awarding eMule as the "Best New Project" of 2007. He didn't mention eMule at the title of the article of course.

Not that a juggernaut like eMule needs Slyck, but smaller open source projects like Gnucleus did and Tom almost never said a word about them [google.com] . He was too busy advertising Limewire for his buddies [google.com] .

How sad is it... (2, Insightful)

Smordnys s'regrepsA (1160895) | more than 6 years ago | (#22198888)

...that I use it for downloads all the time, and never took the time to notice I could sign up for an account? That being said, what do they keep track of on your account? I don't want something tied to my name that could be used against me in court.

It is a lousy tracker (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198954)

Even in English, the Pirate Bay is pretty bad. I'll take Mininova any day. Failing that, Google is like a supertracker. :D

Re:It is a lousy tracker (1)

Wildclaw (15718) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199214)

Except that Mininova isn't a tracker. It is an indexing/directory site. And if you are using Mininova, you have most likely used the pirate bay tracker lots of times.

Now just imagine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22198968)

If TPB launched a donation campaign, say $10 per user, to finance the biggest lawsuit in history with the purpose of finally bringing to death the evil *AAs, BSA and similar organizations.
I certainly hate that in court battles whoever wins lawyers always will get richer, nonetheless the chance of seeing those bastards disappear would be appealing.

World of Pirate bay (1)

Mathness (145187) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199128)

Over 10 million users of Pirate bay and World of Warcraft?

*sniffs the air*

I smell an **AA/conspiracy theory brewing with a hint of inane ramblings from J. Thompson.

Wow!! (2, Insightful)

cheesecake23 (1110663) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199342)

The Pirate Bay asserts itself as the self-proclaimed 'World's Largest Tracker' by topping over 10 million peers, ...

OMG!!! It's the elusive triple redundant double reflexive superfluous tautology!! (I tried to make that triply redundant and doubly reflexive but failed dismally.)

This kind of construct is quite subtle. According to TFA, The Pirate Bay is not claiming to be the world's largest tracker, but the "self-proclaimed world's largest tracker". Positively Colbertian.

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