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Vista SP1 Release May Be Near

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the not-before-time dept.

Upgrades 231

Tokonamu sends a note about the release to a private testing group of a new build of Windows Vista SP1, possibly presaging the imminent release of the long-awaited service pack. Speculation about a Feb. 15 release date has been fueled by a report out of Taiwan, according to the article. Microsoft also issued a new build of Windows XP SP3 this week, but it's getting next to no publicity out of Redmond, what with XP being the main competition for Vista and all.

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3 reboots (4, Interesting)

baadger (764884) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199582)

At the moment installing SP1 RC's requires three seperate trips to Windows Update, and three reboots.

My guess is MS will push out the pre-requisite updates for SP1 this coming February Patch Tuesday, and SP1 a week or two later.

R to the P to the 2 K 8 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199596)

Confirmed: Ron Paul is a nigger lover.

The captcha is contrary.

Re:R to the P to the 2 K 8 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199824)

I love niggers, everybody should own one.

Re:3 reboots (4, Insightful)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199660)

Hey! Adding features [computerworld.com] and improving performance [thedailywtf.com] are non trivial tasks, mind you!

What improvement? (0, Troll)

Erris (531066) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199954)

Last time Slashdot looked [slashdot.org] , there was no performance improvement from SP1. If you want features, use gnu/linux.

Duh (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199972)

Read the links ;)

I thought I already had this... (4, Funny)

raehl (609729) | more than 6 years ago | (#22201086)

I already have XP. Isn't that the Vista update?

Re:3 reboots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199750)

Or downloading 1 installer and running it, which I did.

Too soon to hassle with Vista? (0, Offtopic)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 6 years ago | (#22201038)

I don't know why you bother with Windows Vista SP1. Windows XP didn't work fairly well until SP2. Why not let the early adopters have the grief?

Sure, that's only my opinion, but I'm not the only one who thinks that way. For example, see Why all Vista users should upgrade to Windows XP [cnet.com] .

A good indication of how Microsoft treats its customers is the fact that it has been more than 3 years since SP2 [microsoft.com] was released on 8/10/2004. Here is a quote from Paul Thurrott, who is over-the-top pro-Microsoft, and who often apologizes for Microsoft's abusiveness in a way that tries to make abusive behavior sound less destructive: ... the 100+ updates that Microsoft has shipped since SP2 can be a nightmare to deploy. [winsupersite.com]

For those who use Linux, I will explain: Windows often becomes infected with malware. It sometimes becomes unstable on its own, too; Microsoft releases sloppy, unfinished software. So, it is often necessary to re-load Windows XP SP2. Once you have done that, it is at present necessary to re-load perhaps 100 Megabytes of bug fixes that have been released since SP2. That's why delaying Service Pack 3 for Windows XP has been so damaging to customers; customers have paid millions of dollars extra because of the tedious time-consuming task of loading the 100+ updates since SP2, one at a time.

Microsoft shut down Autopatcher, which was created by volunteers. Autopatcher was a method of making installing the patches semi-automatic. I think that shows the true situation: Volunteers have to do needed work. Microsoft, which could have delivered updates using the same method, avoided making it easier and cheaper to use Windows XP.

Why buy a new product from someone who has frequently abused you in the past?

This is the overall issue, in my opinion: Microsoft somehow established, during the DOS days, that it could charge the full product price for what are actually quite minor updates. (Many people are still using Windows 2000.) So the company makes a huge amount of money each time it brings out what is actually a new version of Windows 2000 with a new name. But things have changed. Users tend to be more technically knowledgeable now. They see no reason to change if what they have now is adequate, if somewhat annoying and expensive to maintain.

Windows 98 was an abuser's dream: It had an unstable file system, insuring that everyone would want to upgrade. Abusive company managers try to delay delivering a stable system, since most people don't want anything more from an operating system than stability.

It took Microsoft 3 years to make Windows XP stable and usable with less pain -- there were 3 years from the first release of XP until SP2 was released. Three years of pain, and since then only three years of relative stability? Is that acceptable, 50% pain? Why start the pain again, with Vista?

Microsoft needs the computer builders to advertise its new update of Windows 2000, called Windows Vista. Computer builders want to sell new computers. That's why Vista uses more resources. Vista is partly an attempt to make the present hardware obsolete.

However, people are beginning to understand better, and they are more difficult to manipulate now.

It seems sensible to me to wait to use Windows Vista until Vista SP2 or SP3 is released, and then a few months after that, to learn if the service pack works well.

Quote from Slashdot's story: "Microsoft also issued a new build of Windows XP SP3 this week, but it's getting next to no publicity out of Redmond..." Maybe so, but I can't find it. I found only an 12/10/2007 SP3 [microsoft.com] , a release candidate, which is supposed to be an advanced beta version.

I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (-1, Offtopic)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199976)

One thing I was surprised with my Mac is how EVERY UPDATE requires me to boot. Hell installing the latest update to iTunes has me reboot. Windows updates were always expected to cause reboots. I guess I was spoiled by other OSes that didn't require it (the name of a particulary older one escapes me but it was famous for running doom + movies all at one time on hardware windows wouldn't)

Is so much embedded down low that they can't unload it temporarily?

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (3, Interesting)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200074)

It actually makes sense for iTunes to be that way on the Mac.

iTunes integrates with QuickTime, which deeply integrates with the graphics subsystem on Mac OS.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200176)

Wonderful. Like IE is integrated into Windows to the point that you can't extract it.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (4, Informative)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200370)

Actually, you can remove iTunes and Quicktime from your Apple OS without impacting on the running state of the OS in any way... unless you wanted to use those programs, so it isn't like IE at all.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (5, Informative)

Motion Marvel (1071978) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200482)

Actually, you can remove the Quicktime and iTunes applications but you can't remove the Quicktime framework because Aqua depends on the quicktime framework

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (4, Informative)

toddestan (632714) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200628)

Actually, you can remove iTunes and Quicktime from your Apple OS without impacting on the running state of the OS in any way... unless you wanted to use those programs, so it isn't like IE at all.
It's exactly like IE. You can delete iexplore.exe and it won't affect Windows, but all the underlying framework will still be in place. Same with Quicktime.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (-1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200872)

My point is that IE is a part of windows in such that if you removed it, you lose elements of windows explorer, if you remove itunes and quicktime, the OS isn't affected, you don't lose functionality. It's nothing like IE, get a clue please.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (3, Informative)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 6 years ago | (#22201050)

My point is that IE is a part of windows in such that if you removed it, you lose elements of windows explorer, if you remove itunes and quicktime, the OS isn't affected, you don't lose functionality. It's nothing like IE, get a clue please.

It's exactly like IE. If you remove ALL of Quicktime from OSX, you *will* break things.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22201048)

No, it's not like IE. Developers do have access to the underlying frameworks and their documentations and take advantage of the built-in features. Apple doesn't integrate frameworks for the sole purpose of gaining a leg up on the competitors. The main reasons IE was deeply integrated was to defeat the performance of Netscape Navigator and to make it hard for people to remove IE.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (1)

Yer Mum (570034) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200426)

The only recent updates that have required a reboot on my computer are the graphics card firmware update, 10.4.11, a couple of QuickTime updates, and an iTunes update.

The first three are forgivable (QT also being the graphics manager), iTunes I'm not so sure about. But in my experience it seems to require a reboot less than my Windows work computer does and, when it does, it doesn't keep insisting on restoring the Windows update dialog box and bringing it to the front every 10 minutes. The icon bounces around in the dock but other than that it doesn't interfere.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (1)

leamanc (961376) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200732)

As others have noted, if you have to restart after an iTunes update, that means there was an associated QuickTime update to go along with it. And, yes, QuickTime, is a very low-level system component on Mac OS.

Apple has addressed the issue somewhat with Leopard. For system updates that require a reboot, you can choose to reboot later. Although *nix fans everywhere know that there's not much need to reboot unless you're doing a kernel upgrade. Restarting the updated processes is good enough.

BS (1)

yabos (719499) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200764)

iTunes by itself does not and has never required a reboot. What requires reboots is Quicktime which is always listed as a separate install. iTunes is an application only and has never by itself required rebooting.

Re:I really wonder, whats with all the reboots? (2, Informative)

mewyn (663989) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200792)

Well, with the iTunes update, it updates the iPodDriver.kext kernel extension, QuickTime also gets updated and it requires a reboot because the whole graphical system is dependent on the QuickTime libraries. Now, the reboot after the iPod driver isn't strictly needed, but Apple takes a "play-it-safe" attitude with kernel extensions and requiring a reboot to get all caches and autoloading information updated. Sure, some of Apple's apps are a bit ingrained into the operating system, but they don't do it in any exceedingly strange ways, and there is rhyme and reason for their reboots.

What, already?? (-1, Offtopic)

inode_buddha (576844) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199584)

fp

I heard a rumor... (5, Funny)

coolhaus (186994) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199586)

I heard a rumor that Vista SP1, in a spectacularly clever and devious bid to fix all Vista issues, silently installs XP in the background.

Re:I heard a rumor... (0)

Asztal_ (914605) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199678)

And XP SP3 installs Vista. Ho ho ho.

Re:I heard a rumor... (4, Funny)

empaler (130732) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199830)

That's an infinite loop! You'll see no end to the Windows Update notifications!

Re:I heard a rumor... (5, Funny)

porl (932021) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199944)

You'll see no end to the Windows Update notifications!
every time i'm forced to use windows, i feel like that is already the case ;)

porl

Re:I heard a rumor... (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200178)

XP SP3 will tell you that parts of it were a "beta" and are now disabled!!! But you can upgrade to Vista!

Re:I heard a rumor... (1)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200434)

I think you're confusing Microsoft with Apple [neowin.net] .

Re:I heard a rumor... (0, Flamebait)

BrentH (1154987) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200802)

I heard that SP1 will have a slimmed down Linux-kernel with Wine for improved backwards compatibility.

Well woopdeedoo (2, Insightful)

ta bu shi da yu (687699) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199600)

I always wonder why Microsoft gets so much publicity for point version upgrades. I mean, the other day I got an update from Ubuntu. So what?

If Microsoft have waited this long for a full update, then something is seriously screwed in Redmond. Something is even more screwed with the rest of us for finding the service pack upgrade so fascinating.

Re:Well woopdeedoo (2)

Conor Turton (639827) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199620)

Microsoft have been releasing parts of SP1 over Windows Update for months. Most people are going to find the SP1 installation very small as they have a lot of it already. It's only going to be large for those who aren't online or haven't updated.

Re:Well woopdeedoo (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199630)

i'm sure you could figure it out, if you weren't trying so hard to ignore the obvious and score some easy mod points.

Re:Well woopdeedoo (1)

ta bu shi da yu (687699) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199768)

Actually, no. That opinion is really how I feel about Microsoft service packs. Exactly how long did it take for them to release this one?

People are acting like this is a new operating system upgrade, not just a bunch of fixes. Sheesh.

Geez, try to be fair at least (5, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199632)

There was a story about the new linux kernel, and that was a point upgrade.

You also get patches/upgrades from MS outside service packs.

So this is in a way like a Linux distro that announces a new point release, which ARE reported on slashdot.

Hate vista or love it. Use it or leave it, but it is a news worthy item when it receives an upgrade. For better or worse this is going to affect a lot of people who read this site.

Oh and OSX has had nothing but point upgrades since it release back in the dark ages, each one of those point releases has been discussed to death.

I don't use vista yet, but am a PC gamer so sooner or later I might have to take the plunge, news on Vista therefor intrests me, if this SP1 is really good, it might hasten the move to Vista and make game companies more inclined to make directx10 only games. Or not, but I want to know when I should start to look into pirating Vista (Pay for MS software? What an odd concept.)

Re:Geez, try to be fair at least (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199698)

You say: There was a story about the new linux kernel, and that was a point upgrade.

It is often worth it. This is because, a point release of linux is a major step forward. They have completely new capabilities for each point release. A major revision would usually be complete re-write.

You say: So this is in a way like a Linux distro that announces a new point release, which ARE reported on slashdot. ... Oh and OSX has had nothing but point upgrades since it release back in the dark ages, each one of those point releases has been discussed to death.

Linux and all open source projects, and Macs to a lesser extent, follow a very conservative versioning system. So don't compare service packs that are essentially bug-fixes to major-revisions of linux or macs.
Eg., 10.4 to 10.5 - Mac OS X became 100% 64-bit (with the same binaries working in 32-bit + PPC system (fat binaries), and so on.
7.04 to 7.10 - Ubuntu introduced Compiz as standard (like DirectX 9 to 10), and so on.

Please don't fawn to Microsoft and Windows.

Re:Geez, try to be fair at least (1)

secolactico (519805) | more than 6 years ago | (#22201044)

7.04 to 7.10 - Ubuntu introduced Compiz as standard (like DirectX 9 to 10), and so on.

I don't think that's a good example of a point release. 7.04 and 7.10 are two different releases (Feisty and Gutsy).

A better example would be LTS 6.06.2 which was released recently, and as far as I understand (I might be wrong) it's LTS 6.06 with patches already rolled into it.

Re:Geez, try to be fair at least (3, Insightful)

ta bu shi da yu (687699) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199776)

Actually, this article isn't about an actual service pack upgrade, this is about speculation about the possibility of a service pack being released by Microsoft.

All the other stories you mention are actual upgrades.

If SP1 brings out new features, then I'll take back what I say. But as far as I can tell so far, it's just going to be a bunch of fixes. Incidently, I never saw why point releases for OS X were so special either - at least in terms of news.

Just my $0.02 - which I should point out is not a troll. Way to go mods of my parent comment.

Re:Geez, try to be fair at least (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199796)

There was a story about the new linux kernel, and that was a point upgrade.
News for nerds. Stuff that matters.
You are worthy to have a look under the hood: http://lxr.free-electrons.com/ [free-electrons.com]
Such ain't the case elsewhere.

Re:Geez, try to be fair at least (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199894)

>Hate vista or love it. Use it or leave it, but it is a
>news worthy item when it receives an upgrade. For better
>or worse this is going to affect a lot of people who read this site.

You know what the funny/strange part for me was?
When I read the headline here were the first things in order that
came to my mind:

1) It's the first service pack, now folks will be willing to buy it.
2) I wonder if they managed to screw something up/didn't fix it in
their service pack i.e. audio vs. network speed?
3) I wonder if they will force it down people's throats without asking
the vista users?

I don't know if you're a microsoft OS user or not, so you might be blind
to how disturbing the first thought is --- an OS is so crappy you have to
wait for them to clean up their OS before it's safe to go in the water.
There have been some clunkers with the Linux kernel (the last one that I remember
was something like version 2.2 aka the brown paper bag version), but its so rare
(that was 8 years ago folks) that I have no problem upgrading my kernel as soon
it's in Debian testing's repository.

The second point? Well, it *used* to be that a service pack really did fix bugs,
but based on the rc released a few months ago it looks like Vista's sp1 will be nothing
more than cosmetic changes, or rather that's my "impression" now of how
much quality comes out of Redmond.

The third point? In the past couple of years there have been incidents of Microsoft slipping things
to be installed without asking the user that have seemed more like "spyware" than "bugfixes".
The one in particular that I think I'm remembering correctly is windows media player.

I used to be one of those folks who hated, hated, hated Microsoft for being the evil empire.
At some point though I realized that Heinlein's razor applies to Microsoft:

They're not evil. They're just greedy stupid.

One day I realized that Microsoft is just obsolete and irrelevant to my world. I still read
the postings here in slashdot, but really for the +5 funny comments on the next blunder
Microsoft has committed. For entertaining humor, Microsoft is still useful.

--Johnny wishes you best of luck with Vista

Re:Well woopdeedoo (0)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199668)

The difference is that Ubuntu makes new releases once a year, whereas...

Re:Well woopdeedoo (1)

Columcille (88542) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199770)

Once a year? What happened to their six month release cycle, plus intermittent updates?

Re:Well woopdeedoo (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199782)

Six months? My bad. I've been using Ubuntu for like fourty days so I still don't know really.

Re:Well woopdeedoo (1)

STrinity (723872) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200700)

I always wonder why Microsoft gets so much publicity for point version upgrades. I mean, the other day I got an update from Ubuntu. So what?
Because if every Ubuntu user went out and killed a Windows user, it'd reduce Microsoft's customer base by one tenth of one percent.

Sudden increase in Vista Sales? (3, Interesting)

Viceroy Potatohead (954845) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199634)

For the first several months of Vista, it seemed there were a lot of people justifying its poor uptake by suggesting most IT people would wait until SP1 before adoption. After all, everybody knows it takes a bit of time to work out the kinks in a new OS. I'm pretty sceptical, but it'll be interesting to see if the apologists were right.

Re:Sudden increase in Vista Sales? (2, Informative)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200224)

the problem is that the changes they're talking about making would turn IT staff OFF from buying the OS. IT staff don't want the OS because the new permission system breaks stuff that worked well in XP SP2 and Windows software vendors are VERY lazy about updates compared to Mac vendors. I have apps at work that were "Vista certified" in DECEMBER 07! My staff can't upgrade until our key software is supported and Microsoft has really dropped the ball on motivating ISVs to get a move on.

It'd be just like them to break DIFFERENT stuff... add new features... just to set back the ISVs that DID try to update.

XP SP3 (1, Insightful)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199640)

Speculations about SP3 breaking XP starts in 3... 2... 1...

Death of XP (1)

Erris (531066) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200122)

Reports are already coming in, but it's hard to separate them from the usual Windoze weirdness. The murder of XP is well underway.

Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (4, Interesting)

xeno (2667) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199648)

I was surprised when Microsoft announced that Windows 7 (successor to Vista) will probably be out in about 16 months. Seems like they're stealing their own whimpery thunder re Vista. The release of SP1 for Vista is surely a relief for those who already adopted it, but what about the masses who were waiting for SP1 --- the proverbial "We'll wait for the bugs to be worked out" crowd?

All those folks (including my own org) are now looking at VistaSP1 vs W7 and wondering about the wisdom of adopting Vista at all. If W7 comes out mid-next year, and there's a W7SP1 about a year later... That means right now that Vista offers barely more than a two-year period of stable operation for an entire platform change. With XP still chugging along merrily (with better stability and lower HW expense/requirements) I really don't see the value for any but the smallest organization.

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (1)

The Real Veritas (933288) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199674)

Yeah, but since when has Microsoft *ever* hit a first pass OS release date?

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (2, Insightful)

baadger (764884) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199704)

Despite what has been 'leaked' about Windows 7 I don't think we'll see it until 2010, when support for 2000 and XP has completely dropped (Although promptly after XP SP3 is out we probably going to see a slow fade where MS evaluate whether they are going to port their new apps (like IE8) back to XP anyway).

By 2010, people using XP will have no real choice but to move on, at which point they'll be looking at the then, hopefully, stable, fast reliable Vista vs the new 'bleeding edge' Windows 7 RTM. What do you think they're gonna choose? ..thats right, Vista.

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (5, Informative)

gollito (980620) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199708)

With XP still chugging along merrily (with better stability and lower HW expense/requirements) I really don't see the value for any but the smallest organization.

That is a huge misconception about Vista. The thing that requires the beefy HW is Aero with all it's fancy stuff. Turn it off, and the hardware resources are minimal. I had it running on my Latitude X300 and it ran just fine. The system always felt responsive and peppy. Features to love about Vista include: Firewall profiles, quick standby times (and more important coming out of standby EVERYTIME), great power management, quick search in the start menu (one button hot key to bring up search window (AKA the Windows button)), etc.
Sure it has its quirks but in my experience the good far out weighs the bad.

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (3, Interesting)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199948)

It still eats ungodly amounts of disk space, though.

I would love to know how they managed to waste so many MB. Instead of an easter egg flight sim on the level of the one in Excel, did they put in all of MS Flight Simulator X?

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (2, Interesting)

EvilIdler (21087) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200890)

Seriously, yeah, what IS in all that data? It's just an OS.
No devtools or office tools, beyond a calculator and a crappy
text editor with font support. Or have they included actual
useful software which let you do more than manage your files
and play (some of) your music/movies?

I'm probably getting a laptop soon, and it looks like I'll
have to get a Vista refund no matter what model I pick from
the ones I like. I'll be running XP for a few games and
Ubuntu to get my job done.

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (0, Flamebait)

westlake (615356) | more than 6 years ago | (#22201096)

It still eats ungodly amounts of disk space, though.

When the 500 GB internal drive [avereststore.com] is $130 retail boxed who gives a damn about disk space?

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (3, Insightful)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200902)

I explained recently to a friend of mine, that Vista's main features are aimed at DRM, doing, that is, the job for the media companies, and not for the user.

No matter how you spin it, the code that tracks and filters the media streams in Vista, does eat resources. The MP3 playing vs. network performance crap is a consequence.

That said, I am glad you DIDN'T NOTICE any performance degradation with Vista. However, such degradation is real and it is measurable.

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (1)

Braino420 (896819) | more than 6 years ago | (#22201060)

The thing that requires the beefy HW is Aero with all it's fancy stuff. Turn it off, and the hardware resources are minimal.
And by doing so you take away the one and only difference that most users see between XP and Vista.

Firewall profiles, quick standby times (and more important coming out of standby EVERYTIME), great power management, quick search in the start menu
Oh ya, firewall profiles are all the rage nowadays.. give me a break.

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199966)

The target is to ship a new client OS every 2 years and a new server OS every 4 years. With a minor client refresh every year to give OEMs something fresh (e.g. update the eye candy in things like Media Center, IE, Media Player, or whatever and support new hardware).

The new management is serious about shipping on schedule and trimming features to fit that schedule. There've been lots of internal changes to make this happen. Don't be surprised if things start to get a lot more orderly in the Windows release cycle.

Also, it's not the service pack that fixes things, it's giving the ISVs and IHVs a year to get their shit together that fixes things.

Always the next version... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200062)

Isn't it the same with every Windows release... I mean, not being happy with the current version and waiting for the next golden-release-that-will-fix-everything?

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (3, Insightful)

noidentity (188756) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200136)

I was surprised when Microsoft announced that Windows 7 (successor to Vista) will probably be out in about 16 months. Seems like they're stealing their own whimpery thunder re Vista.

That's a classic Microsoft strategy: announce a release just around the corner, so customers won't buy a competitors product. Looks like they're doing a good job choking the company who made Vista.

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200258)

no, but the date is just close enough that any major change roll-out to something like Mac or Linux would take longer for IT staff than just "waiting around" for MS to ship Windows 7 which should sync with new hardware purchases. It's carrot-stick. XP SP3 is a carrot to the old users, but after this XP users get the stick... The windows 7 "leaks" are the Carrot to keep people bit by Vista in the fold.

Microsoft is NOT planning to release Windows 7 (2, Interesting)

thisispurefud (1061012) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200290)

Microsoft is NOT planning to release Windows 7 in 2009 ! Contrary to all that is being said on the net, it clearly looks like Microsoft is NOT planning to release Windows 7 in 2009. Q. What is the expected timeline for the availability of Windows 7? A. We are currently in the planning stages for Windows 7 and expect it will take approximately 3 more years to develop. The specific release date will be determined once the company meets its quality bar for release. All this smoke of Windows 7, being released next year, may have led to confusion in the minds of the Windows Vista user. http://www.winvistaclub.com/i7.html [winvistaclub.com]

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (2, Insightful)

The One and Only (691315) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200418)

I was surprised when Microsoft announced that Windows 7 (successor to Vista) will probably be out in about 16 months.

If Vista was any indication, Microsoft announcing that Windows 7 will be out in 16 months means that delays will push back the Windows 7 release to about 2013, at which point it will have half the initially promised feature set and require at least a 40-core processor to work properly. Meanwhile, the Linux kernel will be at version 2.6.557 and Apple will be making advertisements about people downgrading to Vista and releasing Mac OS X "Serval". Hurd will still be in development.

Re:Waiting for SP1 before implementation? (1)

Britz (170620) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200716)

Windows XP SP3 will be out later this year, so we can expect XP to "still be chugging along merrily" for quite some time.

16 months? Are you kidding? (1)

PhYrE2k2 (806396) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200822)

Nobody is waiting 16 months for a software upgrade. Vista won't support any security updates unless you upgrade. It will be the platform for all future updates, and Windows Update will nag you silly until you install it. If you think anyone is considering waiting for 16 months, you're mistaken.

Also, 16 months is a long time in a fast-changing computer industry. Nobody is putting off releasing software, migrating systems, or so on until Windows 7 comes around. While they do that, their whole business will suffer.

3-5 months, maybe. 16 months- you're out of your mind.

-M

XP SP3? (0)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199682)

So is XP SP3 officially out? If so, where is it?

Re:XP SP3? (4, Funny)

kestasjk (933987) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199736)

Redmond, Washington

Re:XP SP3? (1)

schwit1 (797399) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199842)

Yea, because anything... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200724)

with "pirate" and "upgrade" in the name will never ever screw with your system...

Re:XP SP3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199870)

No; it is officially scheduled for first half of this year. That probably translates into May or June. There are some "unofficial" SP3 packages out there, but I wouldn't trust those things at all.

Re:XP SP3? (1)

icsx (1107185) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199884)

Officially it should be out in 1st quarter of 2008.

Anyone know if it fixes the drive spindown? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199700)

Specifically the issue that may be causes by the KB938979 update. This is the one where Vista will continuously spin-down then spin-down your drives causing premature wear and probably failure. It has been an issue for a really long time and Microsoft refuses to admit there is a problem. Meanwhile people's drives are getting destroyed.

What a piece of crap. Vista really is the modern equivalent of Windows ME.

So what's in it? (2, Informative)

MacarooMac (1222684) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199714)

I've consulted with the Wiki gods, who inform me that Vista SP1 [wikipedia.org] will contain the following:

Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (SP1) is currently in development and is planned for release alongside Windows Server 2008 in the first quarter of 2008. The first beta of Windows Vista Service Pack 1, build 16659, was released on September 24, 2007 and was tested by TechBeta participants in the Windows Vista SP1 Beta Program as well as TechNet and MSDN subscribers.

On December 12, 2007, Microsoft released Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (SP1) Release Candidate as an open beta to the general public. The RC build is documented to contain 489 patches, most of which are documented in the Microsoft Knowledge Base but are unavailable for download.

A whitepaper published by Microsoft near the end of August 2007 outlined the scope and intent of the service pack, identifying three major areas of improvement: reliability and performance, administration experience, and support for newer hardware and standards.

One area of particular note is performance. Areas of improvement include file copy operations, hibernation, logging off on domain-joined machines, Javascript parsing in Internet Explorer, network file share browsing, Windows Explorer ZIP file handling,and Windows Disk Defragmenter. The ability to choose individual drives to defragment is being reintroduced as well.

Service Pack 1 introduces support for some new hardware and software standards, notably the exFAT file system, 802.11n wireless networking, IPv6 over VPN connections, and the Secure Socket Tunneling Protocol. An updated version of Windows Installer is included that provides support for multi-package transactions and embedding the user interface of a child Windows Installer package inside a parent installation session. Booting a system using Extensible Firmware Interface on x64 systems is also being introduced; this feature had originally been slated for the initial release of Vista but was delayed due to a lack of compatible hardware at the time.

Two areas have seen changes in Service Pack 1 that have come as the result of concerns from software vendors. One of these is desktop search; users will be able to change the default desktop search program to one provided by a third party instead of the Microsoft desktop search program that comes with Windows Vista. Third-party desktop search programs will be able to seamlessly tie in their services into the operating system. These changes come in part due to complaints from Google, whose Google Desktop Search application was hindered by the presence of Vista's built-in desktop search. In June 2007, Google claimed that the changes being introduced for Service Pack 1 "are a step in the right direction, but they should be improved further to give consumers greater access to alternate desktop search providers." The other area of note is a set of new security APIs being introduced for the benefit of antivirus software that currently relies on the unsupported practice of patching the kernel.

An update to Direct3D, version 10.1, is planned for inclusion, and is expected to make mandatory several features which were previously optional in Direct3D 10 hardware. The whitepaper also notes that Service Pack 1 will include a kernel that will be up-to-date with the version to be shipped with Windows Server 2008.

Support for the Group Policy Management Console is being removed; a replacement is planned for release the same time frame as the release of the service pack.

Wait (4, Funny)

eclectro (227083) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199718)

Vista SP1 is about to be released on the heels of the just released Linux kernel 2.6.24 [slashdot.org] . Coincidence? I think not.

Re:Wait (2, Funny)

Columcille (88542) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199812)

The difference is only about seven people care about a Linux kernel release.

Re:Wait (2, Informative)

Eddi3 (1046882) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200024)

Seven? More like a few million.

Re:Wait (1)

BrentH (1154987) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200104)

Few million? More like Eddi3.

Re:Wait (1)

Seth Kriticos (1227934) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200826)

The difference between the Linux and Windows kernel is, that the Linux system mostly works, and you don't have to care about the newest beading edge kernel. Mostly kernel developers care about the release and version specifics, maybe some admins too, but most user level people just get the regular updates and the new major releases. It's actually just one minor detail of the system. Also, most people don't even want the newest version, because the old is proven, and is released in nice packages. Wonder why the windows folks make such a fuss about service pack numbers and windows versions.

I certainly hope so... (3, Insightful)

SirKron (112214) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199748)

I am running RC1 of SP1 and it has made significant improvements on my x64 laptop. One of the major fixes is the removal of occurances when Vista looks for a domain controller to update user information on a side panel of the window. That fix alone has increased the performance and useability of Vista.

For those of you looking to install RC1 be warned it takes about 2 hours to install and you must remove it prior to installing SP1.

Re:I certainly hope so... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200450)

Woah, 2 hours to install? What is it compiling changes from source?

It probably replaces a whopping 4 files too.

Reality check (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199850)

I've never really been a believer in conspiracy theories, but this is getting silly.

Slashdot, not at least through posting Twitter-blogs, has informed us thoroughly how deep shit MS is in. Nobody wants their products anymore, everybody and their parents (literally) are switching to Mac or Linux (we can't really agree on which, but that doesn't matter). Vista is such a big P.O.S. and sales failure that we suspect it's not really running on any PC at all, people claiming otherwise being astroturfers. And MS are obviously well down the road to bankruptcy.

But surfing outside our informed group here, websites talk about recent fantastic record results and outlooks for Microsoft, among other things fueled by strong Windows growth. People talk about faster adoption rate and less problems with Vista than XP, over 100 million users, MS being rated as one of the most respected companies, and other shit like that.

Where are these people living, and where do they get there information from. Aren't they reading Slashdot??

Re:Reality check (3, Insightful)

DoktorSeven (628331) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199910)

Microsoft's just doing what they do best. No, not technology -- marketing. They create their own buzz and news that everything's awesomely great in Microsoftland to convince people who don't look any deeper to find the real truth.

Re:Reality check (2, Funny)

WK2 (1072560) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199998)

Slashdot ... has informed us thoroughly how deep shit MS is in. Nobody wants their products anymore, everybody and their parents (literally) are switching to Mac or Linux ... Vista is such a big P.O.S. and sales failure that we suspect it's not really running on any PC at all... And MS are obviously well down the road to bankruptcy.

Some people are just optimistic.

Re:Reality check (1)

urbanriot (924981) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200110)

Outside of Slashdot, and a pro-*nix community, Vista adoption is higher than you might think. OEM sales are driving Vista and Office 2007 sales. In fact, for lower tier OEM's, obtaining Office 2003 is next to impossible unless you or your client is with the Open Value Program and utilize their downgrade rights. And despite our, and the educated user's strong dislike for Vista, just as many people are interested in seeing this flashy new operating system. After SP1 is released growth will increase considerably as many people are currently 'waiting for the next service pack' as they did with previous operating systems.

Re:Reality check (1)

cbart387 (1192883) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200148)

But surfing outside our informed group here, websites talk about recent fantastic record results and outlooks for Microsoft, among other things fueled by strong Windows growth. People talk about faster adoption rate and less problems with Vista than XP, over 100 million users, MS being rated as one of the most respected companies, and other shit like that.
Isn't it possible that you have it backwards and slashdot users are the ones who have the proverbial head in the clouds. Slashdot does have a predisposition to be anti-Microsoft so I tend to take most Microsoft news here with a grain of salt. The opposite holds for *nix-like news, it's usually in a flattering light so you have to take that with a grain of salt as well. I think you're correct about slashdot readers being well informed but the information is not always balanced.

I have two friends (computer science majors) who have installed Vista and are enjoying the experience. Of course this is purely anecdotally but what isn't? Also don't understimate the DirectX 10 factor that Vista has to draw the PC gamers.

Re:Reality check (1)

tompaulco (629533) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200308)

Also don't understimate the DirectX 10 factor that Vista has to draw the PC gamers.
DirectX 10 certainly has my attention. But I don't know if the improvements of DirectX 10 will be enough to offset the inefficiencies of the operating system. I have not installed Vista because I enjoy MS Flight Simulator and I have heard from people who have compared XP and Vista that the frame rates are much lower on Vista.

Re:Reality check (4, Insightful)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200332)

From a single user perspective Vista is nice. I had to buy a new laptop at work and choose Vista simply because we can't live in the past.

Vista is a nightmare for IT people though. From the go, Microsoft was lazy about releasing the management tools as anything but Beta because they want to sell companies Server 2008 for the "full experience".... 18 months AFTER Vista is released??? The number of programs broken for an enterprise is a show stopper bug as well, even including Microsoft programs for the first 6 months or so. There is software my company uses that was "certified" for Vista in December! 2007! a full year after Vista was released for corporate use. Microsoft went straight to the consumers with this release, and screwed over corporate users.

It's not been a PROFESSIONAL roll-out... and the people that read/post to Slashdot are the one that have to make the MS stuff ACTUALLY WORK. We're the ones that have to explain to the bosses with their new shiny Vista Ultimate notebooks their new machine can't run half the companies most important software... the stuff they use to get their precious numbers from. Most Slashdotters have a special hatred of Microsoft because while supporting it's software pays our bills, it's not Professional work... it's grunt work times 10 making up for things Windows should have done right the first time!

Do not care at all (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199858)

The only interesting thing about Borg's products is when they will be phased out of existence.

Vista SP 1 is a brilliant name for (3, Funny)

Provocateur (133110) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199984)

the next Ubuntu release!

They can also call it Hasta La Vista to avoid lawsuits.

Re:Vista SP 1 is a brilliant name for (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200064)

Actually I think that is a wonderful idea:D

Someone take Ubuntu(Kubuntu?) 8.04, configure the interface so that it will look and behave more like vista, add a nice compiz over it to say "see? this is a huge update, more eyecandy" and preinstall Wine(the latest release is supposed to run Photoshop CS2), and name the whole thing Hasta La Vista.

I *think* it would get quite a few baby sitting wimps who were always afraid of Linux being too hard to try it out, and given Ubuntu's great record, I think more than half will stay and try out some other distros(perhaps a normal (K)Ubuntu?)

YoU insensitiver clod! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200054)

OF AMERICA irc

If the competition is XP... (2, Insightful)

Arrow_Raider (1157283) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200082)

If the competition for Vista is XP, there would be some incentive for microsoft to break parts of XP with service pack 3. Perhaps we should approach SP3 with caution.

a lesson in corporate behavior (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200120)

The XP SP3 teaches us a lesson: every company will rather damage its own customers rather than its own sales. XP SP3 will be out, but Microsoft won't tell about it because that could hurt Vista sales. As a result, some users could be damaged by the unpatched bugs or spend more time/money because they don't know about the existence of a full service pack.
Don't take it as anti-MS bashing: while I hate Microsoft as the next guy, this behavior should be expected by every company out there. IBM, Sun, Google, Apple, etc. would do exactly the same and the reason isn't that all companies are evil, but they simply don't obey the same principles most humans do.
The morals here is: don't expect a company to be committed to you; whatever bullshit they tell, your money is their food and they will do everything to get it.

I have Vista, a message to all you haters (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200254)

Don't hate me because I am beautiful, have lots of women under my control and use Vista!

Re:I have Vista, a message to all you haters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200550)

Listen, just because you can hit 'PAUSE' on that YouTube video of the LA Lakers Cheerleaders does NOT classify as 'having lots of women under your control'.

That is utterly beyond stretching it.

Will it fix the annoying stuff I've seen? (1)

Doug52392 (1094585) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200452)

Will Vista SP1 fix the annoying stuff I've seen in Vista? Like 1. Going into 20 minute non-stop indexing sprees, which slows down disk access a lot. 2. Constantly being reminded how I don't have Ultimate Edition 3. A bug in the only good feature I've seen in Vista: the ability to resize partitions. I used this feature to resize the default partition on my new computer to install Linux and Windows Server 2008 betas, but after creating 4 or 5 partitions, this utility fails to work anymore, which was VERY annoying trying to get XP installed. There's a lot more stuff I have seen as annoying or problematic in Vista, but those are the big ones.

Tech release or marketing release? (3, Interesting)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200556)

So, will this be a "real" service pack, or is it aimed at all the companies that said they wouldn't switch to Vista until SP1 came out?

The World IS moving to Vista (4, Insightful)

rueger (210566) | more than 6 years ago | (#22200730)

The vast majority of of people walk in to Staples or Best Buy and buy a computer. That computer includes Vista. They use it.

They don't "upgrade" to Vista, they don't decide to buy a Mac, they sure don't try out Ubuntu, they use Vista because that's what came on their new laptop.

Microsoft doesn't need exponential sales of Vista, they don't need the whole world to change overnight. All that they need is to wait as millions of people eventually upgrade their systems. As long as Dell or Best Buy will sell them a laptop for $599 (compared to Apple, whose offerings start at about $1000) that's what people will buy, and Microsoft can watch the adoption continue apace. Widespread use of Vista is pretty much inevitable.

My PC is still running Windows 2000. Its fine, mostly, except for some apps that actually insist on XP. Still, I have conceded that at some point I will upgrade and have "acquired" a copy of XP from one of the usual sources. I don't need it today, but acknowledge that one day soon I'll take a day or two off and upgrade.

In fact my first experience with Vista was in the last month [community-media.com] , helping a girlfriend set up her new HP laptop. Based on the problems that we ran into I'd be wary of encouraging people to buy Vista yet, but I also accepted that if she was buying a system that's what she would get so I was prepared for a steep learning curve. If anything Vista reminds me a lot of OS X - very pretty but very frustrating if you don't want to do exactly what Redmond or Cupertino want you to do.

mod dowtn (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22200836)

[samag.com] 18 the

Department (1)

Cloud K (125581) | more than 6 years ago | (#22201000)

Surely from the you-can't-polish-a-turd department.
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