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Lotus Notes 8.5 Will Support Ubuntu 7.0

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the desktop-in-the-enterprise dept.

Linux Business 297

E5Rebel sends in an article from Computerworld.uk article that reports: "IBM believes Linux on the enterprise desktop is finally ready for widespread adoption. To meet future demand it is preparing to deliver its next versions of Lotus Notes enterprise collaboration software and Lotus Symphony office productivity applications for the first time with full support for Ubuntu Linux 7.0... The Ubuntu support for Notes and Symphony were a direct response to demand from customers."

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Ubuntu 7.0? (3, Informative)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199046)

There is no Ubuntu 7.0. I'd expect them to support 8.04, Hardy.

Re:Ubuntu 7.0? (1)

niceone (992278) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199074)

They say it's customer driven, so maybe those customers are running 7.04? I know I am.

Re:Ubuntu 7.0? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199090)

There is no Ubuntu 7.0.
Ubuntu 7.0 is a spoon? Alas,no. It is not the spoon that bends, it is Ubuntu.

Re:Ubuntu 7.0? (2, Informative)

kdemetter (965669) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199198)

Ubuntu's numbering is based on the year and month of a release . For instance 7.04 means is the release of April , 2007 I think the person writting the article means the 7th release , wich is the latest release (7.10) .

Re:Ubuntu 7.0? (1)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199136)

Computer World doesn't link to an announcement from IBM, but I suspect the problem is on PCW's end. THe use of 7.0 might mean the whole 7 series or it could be 7.04 where PCW thought the 4 was a patch number or something. If, however, the mistake is on IBM's side, I won't trust them to port Lotus Notes to an imaginary version.

Re:Ubuntu 7.0? (1)

Kyojin (672334) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199162)

If, however, the mistake is on IBM's side, I won't trust them to port Lotus Notes to an imaginary version.
It'd be a lot easier than porting to a real version!

Re:Ubuntu 7.0? It will run on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199530)

a version of Linux.

Hmmm... (2, Interesting)

slapys (993739) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199048)

I went to a walkthrough of the Intuit campus in San Diego yesterday. They had a raffle in the beginning and I won a copy of QuickBooks Premier 2008. Even though I am a Computer Science major about to graduate, I felt like I had won nothing; the software felt valueless to me because it would not run on my Ubuntu machine at home. Perhaps shrink-wrap software that runs on Linux may start to catch on soon?

Re:Hmmm... (1)

dellcom (1213558) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199062)

I felt like I had won nothing; the software felt valueless to me because it would not run on my Ubuntu machine at home.


Every try using Crossover? Worked for me with the previous QuickBooks version...

Re:Hmmm... (1)

slapys (993739) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199146)

I actually haven't. But I don't have many demanding office software needs on my Ubuntu machine at home. All my office needs are met at, well, the office. And since my office uses Windows, I can just use Microsoft Office and be done with it.

Re:Hmmm... (5, Funny)

Kyojin (672334) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199124)

Lotus notes... this may spell the end of Ubuntu being considered "User Friendly" as Lotus Notes drags it kicking and screaming to the ground.

New tag - deathofubuntu?

As a regular user of Notes at Work. (2, Insightful)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199050)

IBM, what you've just developed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever used. At no point in your rambling, incoherent interface were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational program. Everyone in this everywhere is now dumber for having used it. I award you no credit, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199068)

It must be better than 6.5, no? Please tell me it is.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199100)

All the Lotus software are actually getting worse. IBM is putting some Java Eclipse shit to something that was already full enough of shit.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (5, Informative)

forgotten_my_nick (802929) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199334)

6.5 was made back in 2003. Of course it is better. Most of the FUD being spouted is from people using older versions of Notes, or having to use applications written by people not qualified to write them (mainly because it is as easy to write as VB). Or worse still they spend all that money and only use it for email.

R8 is pretty much sitting on top of Eclipse. You still have notes backend but you can work with composite applications either as an NSF or as plugins. 8.1 even allows you to link to Google widgets within the client.

R8 works in Linux already (Designer client is scheduled for 8.5). What IBM is doing is certifying the client under Ubuntu 7.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199358)

Thanks.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199744)

Most of the FUD being spouted is from people using older versions of Notes, or having to use applications written by people not qualified to write them (mainly because it is as easy to write as VB). Or worse still they spend all that money and only use it for email.

As a part-time IBM consultant I'm required to use Notes for email, workspaces and calendaring.

Right away I upgraded to 8.0, in the hope that they fixed the bugger after years of being a PITA. It still sucks. I don't need or want my email client to be able to launch rockets, I just want to answer my clients without having to wait half an hour before the bastard is done replicating/IMing/fornicating/whatnot.

I'd take Thunderbird over it any day. Either you're a Notes developer who hasn't seen the competition and hasn't seen a normal user use Notes or you're from marketing.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (2, Insightful)

Junta (36770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199800)

R8 is pretty much sitting on top of Eclipse.
Speaking as a Notes user (a Linux Notes 8 user at that), that really didn't help Notes significantly from my perspective. In terms of applications, I don't see how Notes 8 increases the skill of developers, but then again, that's not my chief gripe.

Notes always has been excruciatingly sluggish, bloated, and awkward. Putting it on top of eclipse made it that much worse. It feels like molasses on my system. This is working with local replicas of databases (eliminating the slow network) and on a ludicrously overpowered workstation (16 GB RAM, 8 cores, admittedly the hard drive setup is merely a mirror of 500 GB drives, but no other piece of software seems to mind).

I speak not as someone who actually has to use those annoying 'applications' written on the Notes platform by random people (just make a damn webapp people), but as someone who for the most part just needs it as an email client. For those who say 'but it isn't *just* an email client', that may be true, however, a primary function it is intended to fulfill should not be so user-antagonistic. Also, if the core function it means to fulfill with all the developer attention available can't be made pleasant, then it says unfortunate things about the platform.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (3, Interesting)

Otter (3800) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199904)

6.5 was made back in 2003. Of course it is better. Most of the FUD being spouted is from people using older versions of Notes...

I use R7 at work. It's certainly less horrifically disastrous than previous versions but it's still godawful.

Incidentally, you talk about "made back in 2003" like it was designed to run on the ENIAC! There was no excuse for releasing such a piece of garbage in the era of OS X, KDE 2 and whatever Windows was current then.

... or having to use applications written by people not qualified to write them (mainly because it is as easy to write as VB). Or worse still they spend all that money and only use it for email.

Oh, yeah, this stuff. When you Notes fans convince IBM to market the product as a development environment that's unusable out of the box, not as a polished suite centered around email, we'll stop complaining.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (1, Informative)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199082)

IBM, what you've just developed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever used.

IBM didn't develop lotus notes. They just bought it. I don't think they deserve all of the blame.

My fear is that they will turn Linux into OS/2, and we all know what happens next....

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (4, Informative)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199302)

IBM has owned Notes for like 15 years now, they deserve all the blame.

Re:Lets sort this out (1)

Nosferatum (1227820) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199602)

>IBM didn't develop lotus notes. They just bought it. I don't think they deserve all of the blame.
>My fear is that they will turn Linux into OS/2, and we all know what happens next.... ...
Sure:

1- Buy lotus notes.
2- Port it to linux.
3- Turn linux into OS/2
4- ???????
5- Profit!

Re:Lets sort this out (1)

Grampaw Willie (631616) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199868)

Doesn't IBM have their own "Red Hat" version of Linux? they can morph that into whatever but Ubantu and Fedora can continue without taking the blue poison

a Groupwise package is a high-use package on the desktop. where I work Groupwise has superseded the phone for most communication

the User Interface has to make the key tools available quick and easy. Groupwise ( Novell ) ain't bad but I think they need work on the accessibility of their message filter: if I'm reading a message I should be able to click FILTER and immediately get a list of all the traffic on that topic ( has any of the same from/to addresses ). or i should be able to open the address book, type in the first few letters of an address, pick and highlight the address and click filter -- and get all the traffic to/from that person

Re:Hire open-source devs! (1)

__walk_the_talk (1227504) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199246)

Suppose a big company is considering deploying Lotus Notes on Linux.Would'nt it make more sense for them to hire a couple of open-source developers to modify existing open-source apps?

There are quite a few IM clients like pidgin,psi etc on the linux desktop today.They enjoy a pretty big user base and have a stable code base.Hiring one of those developers sure makes a lot more sense than shelling out big bucks for IBM's closed source apps.It just runs on Linux.It does'nt have an open code-base.The company will still have to wait for IBM to change the app,which will onlyh happen if the company is big enough to merit the coding time for IBM's (relatively) few linux devs.

An argument often made against widespread adoption of enterprise linux(atleast in India) is the lack of good support.Microsoft actively courts large companies.By comparison,Red Hat and Novell's support group is small and relatively immobile.It takes much more time for a Red hat engineer to reach a crisis site(in case of network failuer for example) than it takes for a microsoft support guy.This is atleast partly because the demand for linux devs has consistently outstripped supply(again,atleast here in India)

It would seem to be cheaper and better in the long run for companies to develop their own customizations of exisitng apps.

However,i've never used Lotus Notes personally.They might well provide some functionality that would make the decision to buy it worthwhile.

Re:Hire open-source devs! (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199472)

There are quite a few IM clients like pidgin,psi etc on the linux desktop today.

You are confused about what Notes does, and its power (often misused).

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (3, Informative)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199300)

At no point in your rambling, incoherent interface were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational program.

Overreact much?

Notes is a development platform and distributed database. It's not the fault of the program if your IT department makes you use it as an email tool without end-user customisations.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199758)

From IBM's own website on Lotus Notes:

Business email software that can help people effectively share and manage information, make business decisions quickly, and streamline the way they work.


Silly IT, using Lotus Notes for what IBM says it's supposed to be used for!

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (4, Funny)

KlaymenDK (713149) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199416)

IBM, what you've just developed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever used. At no point in your rambling, incoherent interface were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational program.
Ah, but dear sir, Rational is a completely separate product. Would you like to see the catalogue?

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199526)

I got the joke, even if no one else did. Just thought I'd let you know.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (2, Interesting)

vampyre_eyes (847233) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199608)

I have been a user of Lotus Notes for 6.5 years. It is not that bad. I am currently working at IBM and running Ubuntu 7.10 Thinkpads (T61 and T42). IBM official standard Linux workstation client is Red Hat based. But IBM has a few projects to enable users to run Ubuntu and other Linux distributions. These Standard clients contain almost all the required software to do your work at IBM. some including Lotus Notes 8. Anything else can be covered by running VMware with Windows XP. I have been running a Ubuntu client since September last year. and I can say that the support is getting better with every release To all those who do not like Lotus notes. This announcement by IBM is a very good thing. There are many companies who run Lotus notes and this gives all those users another choice of a Linux based desktop with official support. I hope i see many more of these types of stories and that more companies may go down the Linux path.

Re:As a regular user of Notes at Work. (1)

Snives (207067) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199740)

Yes, I got the joke, too. It's a parody of the competition at the end of Adam Sandler's Billy Madison.

2008 (1, Funny)

imbaczek (690596) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199054)

The year of Linux Desktop!

Re:2008 (2, Insightful)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199096)

The year of Linux Desktop!
This is bordering on a parody of itself now- any more and it'll become a Slashdot cliche like Natalie Portman, Soviet Russia and friends.

It's been said every year for almost ten years, so can we call it the decade of Linux on the desktop instead? ;-)

Re:2008 (1)

Kyojin (672334) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199126)

So in Soviet Russia we'll get the year of the desktop on Natalie Portman?

Re:2008 (1)

jibjibjib (889679) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199390)

I'm still waiting for the year of Natalie Portman naked and petrified on my desktop.

Re:2008 (1)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199550)

You forgot the hot grits in your pants ....

Re:2008 (1)

rich_r (655226) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199560)

I didn't...

mmm.... 3rd degree burns...

Re:2008 (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199466)

The year of Linux Desktop!
This is bordering on a parody of itself now- any more and it'll become a Slashdot cliche like Natalie Portman, Soviet Russia and friends.

It's been said every year for almost ten years, so can we call it the decade of Linux on the desktop instead? ;-)
I don't see a serious problem with Linux on Desktop if we are speaking about enterprise/business desktops. Also saying as a OS X user here who despises Ubuntu guys "It is out fashioned, lets drop PPC official support" short sighted decision.

Re:2008 (1)

Torodung (31985) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199516)

It's been said every year for almost ten years, so can we call it the decade of Linux on the desktop instead? ;-)
Inaccurate.

Perhaps we could call it the "decade of wishful thinking" or the "decade of fashionably naive, torch carrying, Finnish fanatics?"

All I know is that if we keep repeatedly predicting it on /., we'll only look like a bunch of retarded penguins. ;^)

--
Toro

Re:2008 (1)

kdemetter (965669) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199532)

Well the desktop systems for Linux keep getting better and better , so what's the problem . Linux works great for the desktop . If you look at the newest window managers , it has all the stuff Windows has , and then some more .

Re:2008 (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199722)

Well the desktop systems for Linux keep getting better and better , so what's the problem . Linux works great for the desktop . If you look at the newest window managers , it has all the stuff Windows has , and then some more .
The "problem" is that when people discuss the "year of Linux on the desktop", they basically mean its market share and are implying that desktop Linux will reach some breakthrough point for mainstream use. People have been saying this every year for the best part of a decade, and it hasn't happened yet.

Re:2008 (0)

sucker_muts (776572) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199156)

The year of Linux Desktop!

FTA:

"The other thing we are seeing is some interesting patterns evolving here," he said. "It starts with a very small company looking at Linux, and then there are really large companies that are starting out small with 500 [Linux desktop] users, then moving up to 2,000 or more. That is the pattern we are seeing."

Although some industry experts have been proclaiming for the last six years that Linux on the corporate desktop was finally ready, IBM thinks that this year, it will happen.

Hooray!

7.10 (5, Informative)

quenda (644621) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199086)

Amazing how many news outlets repeat the "7.0" typo.
Of course it should read "7.10" as in october 2007.
But et tu Slashdot!?

Re:7.10 (0)

creepynut (933825) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199666)

Perhaps they're labeling it Ubuntu 7 because it is the 7th release? Warty, Hoary, Breezy, Dapper, Edgy, Feisty, Gutsy = 7.

I suppose it isn't likely, since I've never heard of it this way, but it does make sense in a way.

LOLtus Notes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199092)

Who cares?

Re:LOLtus Notes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199872)

I care, you insensitive clod!

Good news (2, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199102)

I think every large company I've dealt with use either MS Outlook or Lotus Notes. Don't ask me to reason why, I guess it's just one of those things they do. Customer demand for this on Linux may mean serious traction in the enterprise market, they tend to move slow but when they do it's with force. I think it'll only get better from here as I'm running Ubuntu here, and right now it's only slightly less frustrating than XP. While XP is at a standstill they're fixing things in Ubuntu, and I tried Vista... it was more painful than switching to Ubuntu was.

Re:Good news (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199150)

IBM is in desperation mode to save the pitiful piece of shit that is notes. this is not good news for anyone, it just means IBM will now be flogging there dead horse on Ubuntu as well. Notes is one of those programs that has actually gotten slower and less intuitive as the years and versions have gone on, they make MS look like genius's and that is tough.

Re:Good news (1)

sticks_us (150624) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199470)

This is what I thought too. This smacks of desperation, almost Corel-ish.

Maybe this will be a good move for IBM shops that are already neck-deep in that vendor, but I can't see this as anything more than a symbolic move.

Symbolic of what, now that's open to discussion.

SmartSuite? (2, Insightful)

Gheesh (191858) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199110)

Getting that to run on Linux would be great. Being able to support the OpenDocument standard as well... priceless!

Re:SmartSuite? (3, Informative)

ADRA (37398) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199170)

Notes 8.0 already supports OpenOffice docs (built-in editors), so no big breakthrough there.

Re:SmartSuite? (1)

forgotten_my_nick (802929) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199346)

Symphony/Notes will allow you to open Smartsuite documents and resave them in opendocument format.

I'm surprised if anyone uses smartsuite anymore, it hasn't had any serious update since 2000.

Ubuntu 7.0? (2, Informative)

esmrg (869061) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199144)

You don't use Ubuntu do you?

There is no 7.0.

7.04 , 7.10, 8.04

The format is year.month of release. Which is april and october, respectively.

What will they do? (1)

Lamieur (839373) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199176)

What will the Ubuntu version look like when the year 3000 comes? Will it go from 999.10 to 1000.04?

Re:What will they do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199280)

I think they might just have changed their version numbering scheme by then don't you think? Or is 990 years to do that not long enough?

Re:What will they do? (1)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199314)

Well if it manages to go from 9.10 to 10.04, and from 99.10 to 100.04, then I think it's probably a fair bet that no one will be to scared to go from 999.10 to 1000.04

Re:What will they do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199764)

Ubuntu version numbering will roll over every decade. 0.04 and 0.10 are the versions in the year 2010.

Enterprise (5, Interesting)

unforkable (956731) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199174)

Despite the facts that Lotus is or isn't a good product... let's face it, Lotus Notes is a major player in the enterprise, and this can drive some important migrations to Linux.

Why specifically Ubuntu? (2, Interesting)

bshellenberg (779684) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199186)

I'm unable to understand the logic here. Is the word Ubuntu replacing Linux for marketing use, or is there some compelling reason to support just one distribution? In "the old days" (last year was it?) everything was SUSE. In "the REAL old days" (2 years ago was it?) it was RedHat. Linux is Linux is Linux.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

Quietus (808995) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199242)

Because it is easier to guarantee support for a particular distribution, which ships with a certain suite of libraries and applications of various versions, than it is just to state 'Linux' support. It is very likely that minimal effort would be required to run Lotus Notes 8.5 on other GNU/Linux distributions.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199256)

Linux is Linux is Linux.

Actually it isn't evem in the strictest sense, when Linux = kernel. Different distros use different patches. And then there are different Java versions, etc. Notes may well run on more than just Ubuntu, but for IBM to support it, they have to limit it to some distros. The fact that these days Ubuntu seems to be a "supported distribution" more often probably mirrors its popularity.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

amias (105819) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199694)

For support purposes linux is Linux Standard Base which is a joint effort to standardise the operation central parts of the system , if it the porters keep an eye on fitting in with LSB then more portability should happen.

As much as Lotus Notes is a bit of bogeyman its still good to see it being supported on linux. well done IBM.

Toodle-pip
Amias

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199266)

my guess would be dependencies

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199360)

When it comes to software deployed in a binary format, trifles like filesystem layout, and in particular, library versions, well they really matter.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

forgotten_my_nick (802929) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199364)

What they basically mean is they are certifying it for that platform. It can work on most versions of Linux with some tweaking but if you came across any issues they would not be supported.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (5, Interesting)

kripkenstein (913150) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199396)

I'm unable to understand the logic here. Is the word Ubuntu replacing Linux for marketing use, or is there some compelling reason to support just one distribution? In "the old days" (last year was it?) everything was SUSE. In "the REAL old days" (2 years ago was it?) it was RedHat. Linux is Linux is Linux.
Ubuntu is fast becoming a powerful player in this area; as the article says, the reason for supporting it was sizable customer demand. That is the logic here. People wanted to run Ubuntu on their enterprise desktops, they wanted IBM to have Notes on that platform, IBM agreed. No mystery.

Of course 'support for Ubuntu' doesn't mean it won't run on random distro X. It might, but IBM won't recommend it/install it/support it for you. Which is fine if you want to do it all yourself. Most enterprises, however, are used to paying IBM (/Microsoft) a lot of money and not having to worry about support issues.

IBM, by the way, isn't supporting just one distro. They have various forms of support for various distros for their products. Their overall strategy seems quite simple; on the one hand, support the distros people ask for, on the other, keep that number a reasonable size. By which I mean, IBM doesn't want a single vendor (Microsoft sort of taught IBM a lesson there), but also IBM doesn't want too many vendors, which is hard to support and market. Simply put, that means we should expect IBM products to be supported on Ubuntu, Red Hat and SUSE. No surprises; these are the major distros these days (and for a few years now, too).

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199574)

Soon, though, enterprises will be able to order their desktops from Dell (as usual) and use Notes (which they were already using), so I expect this move to go well for those enterprises using Lotus Notes and thinking of a migration to Linux desktops. That's got to be ... what ... 0.5-1% of the market? ;)

Seriously, though == I hope this move is successful.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

kilgortrout (674919) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199840)

Ubuntu is fast becoming a powerful player in this area; as the article says, the reason for supporting it was sizable customer demand. That is the logic here. People wanted to run Ubuntu on their enterprise desktops, they wanted IBM to have Notes on that platform, IBM agreed. No mystery.
I'd like to know where this is happening. I haven't seen or read anything that would support this statement apart from the relentless ubuntu PR. It's all RH and Novel/Suse in the enterprise; ubuntu is virtually nonexistent in this space.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

kripkenstein (913150) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199908)

Ubuntu is fast becoming a powerful player in this area; as the article says, the reason for supporting it was sizable customer demand. That is the logic here. People wanted to run Ubuntu on their enterprise desktops, they wanted IBM to have Notes on that platform, IBM agreed. No mystery.
I'd like to know where this is happening. I haven't seen or read anything that would support this statement apart from the relentless ubuntu PR. It's all RH and Novel/Suse in the enterprise; ubuntu is virtually nonexistent in this space.
Ignore the Ubuntu PR, all PR is suspect. TFA in fact is valid evidence: IBM has decided to support Ubuntu because of actual demand. TFA says, for example,

"We're doing pilots with customers now," Satyadas said. "Some of the requests came from big companies" with as many as 100,000 users that are interested in moving to Ubuntu Linux on the desktop.
[empasis mine] Yes, Red Hat has most of the enterprise market, but for servers. That is 99% of the current Linux market, and is the reason you feel Ubuntu is 'nonexistent'. Desktop Linux is starting to slowly appear in enterprises, while this may not be the 'year of the Linux desktop', it is making progress. When it does, Ubuntu is often the name mentioned. It's a desktop-focused distribution, it has commercial backing, and it captured the top spot among desktop Linux enthusiasts.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

HankB (721727) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199880)

...
It might, but IBM won't recommend it/install it/support it for you. Which is fine if you want to do it all yourself. Most enterprises, however, are used to paying IBM (/Microsoft) a lot of money and not having to worry about support issues.

I would be very surprised if IBM would not take your money to get Notes working on any other distro. It would take more money but isn't that one of the reasons that IBM is doing this?

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (5, Informative)

Hymer (856453) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199432)

AFAIK, being a Notes-user for many years and having a good relation with IBM, they already do support SuSE and Redhat... Ubuntu is just the next distro getting certified Notes support.
--
No, Notes doesn't suck... Notes is just different... but then, so is Linux. ;-)

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (2, Informative)

old_kennyp (949607) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199444)

I read about this last week and they already have stated that they will be supporting on SUSE 10.3, Redahat( don;t know which version), and now Ubuntu 7.1. I take it that they will provide the packages for these distros and support Notes on all these three. Any other distro that uses these packages should also work but IBM will not support it

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199534)

Notes has already supported SuSE and Red Hat for some time - this isn't their first foray into the Linux world, they're just adding Ubuntu to the list of officially supported distros.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199642)

In "the old days" (last year was it?) everything was SUSE. In "the REAL old days" (2 years ago was it?) it was RedHat.

Ah, yes, back in the days before the IP railroad came through the old west. When we had to send a horse and rider out with our packets. You think SUSE was last year, think back to Mandrake. And what a leap forward Xandros was when it rode into town. Those were the days.

Now stay off my lawn...

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199786)

You young 'uns... I kin remember when we wasn't coddled and we ran *Slackware*. And we liked it, by gum!

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199774)

Linux is Linux is Linux.


Except that it isn't. Linux per se is only a kernel. The OS built around that kernel involves adding a filesystem structure, binary libraries, and and a broad range of utility programs that can be, and *are*, assembled in very different ways. I can very easily see why you'd only want to support a complex program on only one distribution. Yes, it could theoretically be made to run on any distribution, but support a distribution means attempting to run it, doing the inevitable fixes necessary to make it run, and then considerable testing to find the bugs introduced by incompatibilities between distributions, and the fixing of those bugs. It all adds up to a not inconsiderable amount of highly-paid labor.

Re:Why specifically Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22199922)

Linux is Linux is Linux.

I don't understand why companies make software that "only" runs on Windows 95 or higher, or Windows XP or higher. Windows is Windows is Windows. (In case you don't get it, that's essentially what you are saying.)

We can only hope... (4, Insightful)

Sulix (1154971) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199254)

We can only hope that more companies follow suit.

Face it, if it will work on Ubuntu, it won't be too hard to coax it into working under [insert favorite distro here], and Linux is sorely missing out on commercial software.
Even though some people will surely say that we should only use the pure, open source software that no large corporation has so much glanced at, there are some jewels of the commercial software world that have no open source equivalent.

Video Editing software, for example; you'd be far better off using one of the many commercial programs than one of the few open source ones.

Having commercial software avaliable for Linux can only help the adoption of Linux on the desktop, and, really, unless you're Steve Ballmer, there is no possible downside to this.

Re:We can only hope... (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199686)

If you really want this, you need to start developing a binary platform. That isn't clear. What I mean is, closed source application developers are not going to be willing to depend on customer compilation to make sure that their software knows where libraries are, and(especially on the high end) they aren't going to be making releases for several different distros, they are going to tell you to set up a machine with the distro they compile against. If somebody out there were providing a stable set of libraries that cottoned over the aesthetic differences between various distros, they could link against it and people could use it wherever. The libraries could still be patched, but each release would maintain binary compatibility over its lifetime(which would be whatever made sense, but several years at least). Perhaps it isn't practical to hide the differences, I don't really know, but things like LSB don't work because they still present a moving target, something those closed source application developers are going to be reluctant to deal with.

It isn't surprising that linux and other Free/Open Source software developers have different priorities than application vendors, but the stable target that Windows and Mac provide is a big reason there is so much commercial software on those platforms, it fits that business model much better.

So wait... (4, Funny)

TLLOTS (827806) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199262)

When did IBM start hating Linux?

Re:So wait... (1)

Darfeld (1147131) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199374)

That's not the point. The point is they now think ubuntu is popular enough for them to make some company oriented software runnable on a Linux distribution.

Re:So wait... (1)

Hymer (856453) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199762)

Just FYI: Notes has been semisupported on Linux thru wine for years now "We do not support this officially yet but search our website 'cause we've got some 1000 employees running this in-house" and Notes server (aka. Domino) got a native version since at least v. 5 (and probably earlier).

World domination proceeding as planned (2, Funny)

00_NOP (559413) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199270)

The battle is just to get to the point where the public authorities accept they can no longer post up websites that only work with MS's proprietary stuff - I think we'll start getting there this year. Not quite The Year Of Linux On The Desktop, but possibly the year where the rebel alliance win a few tactical victories on the long march to power.

Hmm... I suppose that's OK (1, Funny)

ta bu shi da yu (687699) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199312)

However, are they going to open source Lotus Notes? It seems not.

This leads me to ask when are they going to fix their crappy HTML renderer in their Notes mail client? It must have the most braindead, broken, bizarre HTML renderer in the business. Why, their are whole [build-reci...-links.com] cottage [evolt.org] industries [computergripes.com] around [blogs.com] on [emaillabs.com] how [e-consultancy.com] to [graphics.com] work [templatekit.com] on [sitepoint.com] it's [sitepoint.com] crudulousness [reachcustomersonline.com] .

Re:Hmm... I suppose that's OK (1)

forgotten_my_nick (802929) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199384)

As I understand since R7 the HTML renderer is basically IE embedded.

Re:Hmm... I suppose that's OK (1)

ta bu shi da yu (687699) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199420)

Well that is hardly helpful to those who wish to use a Lotus Notes client on a non-Microsoft platform.

Re:Hmm... I suppose that's OK (2, Interesting)

bdeclerc (129522) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199496)

Well that is hardly helpful to those who wish to use a Lotus Notes client on a non-Microsoft platform.
Where Lotus Notes actually uses the Mozilla rendering engine, as anyone who knows something about the more recent Notes-versions knows. But please, don't let facts come in the way of decade old prejudices...

Re:Hmm... I suppose that's OK (1)

ta bu shi da yu (687699) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199610)

If the "But please, don't let facts come in the way of decade old prejudices..." was targeted at myself, then you aim badly. I have no idea what the rendering engine is for Notes. Couldn't care less. Also, I was responding to someone who said that IE was the default renderer, I made the assumption that if this was right then it's pretty unhelpful for those who don't have access to Internet Explorer.

The company I work for has a hell of a time trying to deal with old Notes clients that won't render reasonable HTML emails correctly. The only prejudice here is for the stupid programming that causes so much grief for others.

Re:Hmm... I suppose that's OK (1)

Hymer (856453) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199864)

I usually tell people not to send HTML-mails and to shoot everybody that do.
HTML-mail include online content that may or may not be available and can not be trusted since the online content may be changed after the mail has arrived.

At least under Linux... (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199806)

It's embedded Gecko. In fact, without Mozilla/Firefox installed, it won't render HTML internally.

Why another office thing? (1)

cuby (832037) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199338)

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Symphony [wikipedia.org] :

Lotus Symphony is based on the 1.1.4 version of OpenOffice.org which was dual licensed under both the LGPL as well as Sun's own SISSL which allowed for entities to change the code without releasing their changes, IBM does not have to release the source code of Symphony.

They should be contributing to the OpenOffice code instead of creating another pointless "productivity" suit.

why just ubuntu? (1)

BestNicksRTaken (582194) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199388)

so is it just ubuntu because ibm hates redhat/novell (the standard enterprise distros) or does their notes team read digg.com and think linux == ubuntu?

RTFM (1)

forgotten_my_nick (802929) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199418)

http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg27009485 [ibm.com]

Linux versions supported:
# SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED) 10 XGL
# RedHat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) 5 - Note: AIGLX and SELinux must be disabled

This just means if they find a bug they will fix it if they can reproduce on those platforms.

Full support -- actually, no (1)

KlaymenDK (713149) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199434)

Full support would have included the Designer. All that's being ported is the client-side application. As a Notes developer (woe is me and all that jazz), I'm stuck on the Windows platform because the just can't be bothered to work on the Designer, which has had nary an update and the same old bugs for years and years. Grumble.

Re:Full support -- actually, no (4, Informative)

bdeclerc (129522) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199504)

Actually, they just announced at Lotussphere that for Notes 8.5, they are working on an Eclipse-based Designer, which then would be quite simple to also make available on other platforms than Windows... So it's very likely going to happen.

In the mean time, as far as I know, it's possible to run Designer under Wine.

Re:Full support -- actually, no (1)

KlaymenDK (713149) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199638)

Would this Eclipse-based Designer support LotusScript? If so, I would be absolutely thrilled, seeing as how 99.5% of our soon-to-be "legacy" applications have zero Java content. Have you any links I can read up on?
I have learned a good deal about "the future", but for LS-based solutions, so far it seems to me that we'll have to make do with what we have.

Also, yes, one could run the Designer under Wine, but then you would have no real way to ensure the quality of the product. Notes is quirky enough as it is, tenjewberrymuds, I don't need a whole 'nother layer of hopefully-workingness on top of it. Plus, of course, in this company I work for there is just no support for any of that. You get what you get, basta.

' can't tell exactly if this is good or bad news (4, Interesting)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199672)

From what I have allways heard and read - also in this thread - Lotus Notes is about the crappiest of Groupwares right behind Outlook/Exchange. A nighmare to maintain and operate, close to SAP in it's fatness and stuck in the early ninties in terms of usability.

Give the traction Linux and OSS in general has gained in professional businesses I doupt that this is needed. It's probably more that Notes needs Linux. If it helps Lotus Notes shops migrate easyer - all the better. But I'm recommending all my business customers to stear clear of any proprietary thick-client-server groupware. Given the state of rich internet applications and web-based solutions nowadays the concept strickes me as totally backwards.

Re:' can't tell exactly if this is good or bad new (1)

Grampaw Willie (631616) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199790)

"Notes" never seemed to catch on much, did it? except with the blue-underware crowd but there is no accounting for taste here and there

the Solaris system is attractive,-- has a nice office package, includes FireFox and Thunderbird. dunno how all this stacks up under heavy office use; should be great for getting started though. ( I want mine on a hot-rod SPARC though, tee hee )

I have my copy of -Geekonomics_ (David Rice) and have started reading. As I've mentioned here and there the first system to slam the door in the hackers face with effective security will be the winner

a security system like RACF is needed: one that examines not only who is trying to update what, but how are they doing it? what tools do they want to use? it should not be allowed to update software "on the fly". we need to require a download, and use the setup program and do the authenticity checking thing while we're at it

Geekonomics points out that software has become a critical part of the "cement" of our infra structure. and we can't afford to have it cracking and crashing.

Re:' can't tell exactly if this is good or bad new (1)

MacarooMac (1222684) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199836)

Not having had the opportunity to use Notes, I decided to undertake a mini investigation and so I asked the Wiki gods to explain what it is, to figure out why, exactly, the companies I've worked [in the UK] for haven't opted to use it. The more I read, the more I tend to agree with my parent (did I really just say that?!).

"Lotus Notes is a client-server, collaborative application, described by IBM as an "integrated desktop client option for accessing business e-mail, calendars and applications on [an] IBM Lotus Domino server."

- Email client
- IM
- browser
- calendar
- notebook
- applications: blogs, wikis, help desk systems
- data replication, security
- all integrated into a 'seemless' application

So I guess this is more of an enterprise level application offering pretty much the standard features but fuly integrated, with a consistent look and feel and offering enterprise wide security etc. I assume clients are also tied in with IBM's Domino server? (correct me if i'm wrong) Conclusion: small-med size businesses stay clear.

That said, Linux could certainly do with a quality suite of collaborative applications - providing a similar look and feel and full integration and preferably OSS - BUT w/out tying you into some rigid client-server architecture. So what alternative collaboration 'set-up' would people here recommend to their would-be Linux clients who raise the subject of Lotus Notes?

Re:' can't tell exactly if this is good or bad new (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22199906)

But I'm recommending all my business customers to stear clear of any proprietary thick-client-server groupware.
I mostly agree, but would like to add using open, yet application specific protocols as available. Sure, have your ubiquitous webmail client, but it's so trivial to have both webmail and imap access. Webmail email clients more often are more awkward to use.

I am surprised at companies willingness to go with a Domino/Notes. It would be one thing if the application suite were rich and nice to use, but it isn't and webapps have in the meantime improved to have less awkwardness than Notes. I don't like acceptance of Exchange/Outlook (extreme vendor-lockin, significant cost), but at least the client isn't horrible.

I'm surprised open-standards based applications haven't gotten more traction. IMAP, CalDAV, and Jabber are decent protocols for their respective fields, but people still use Domino, Exchange, Sametime, and MS Communicator and volunteer for vendor lock-in.
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