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The Effects of the Fibre Outage Throughout the Mediterranean

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the need-some-unclogging-of-the-tubes dept.

Communications 101

Umar Kalim writes "Analysts have been studying the effects of the fibre outage throughout the Mediterranean in terms of network performance, by examining the changes in packet losses, latencies and throughput. We initially discussed the outage yesterday. 'It is interesting that some countries such as Pakistan were mainly unaffected, despite the impact on neighboring countries such as India. This contrasts dramatically to the situation in June - July 2005, when due to a fibre cut of SEAMEWE3 off Karachi, Pakistan lost all terrestrial Internet connectivity which resulted, in many cases, in a complete 12 day outage of services. This is a tribute to the increased redundancy of international fibre connectivity installed for Pakistan in the last few years.'"

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That's Chinese workmanship for you (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281234)



Those Chinese and all their bases

Who will benefit? (3, Interesting)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281250)

The question I have not seen posed yet. Who will benefit? Who will benefit of this outage? Who would benefit from sealing off Egypt and other countries in the Middle-East? The Chinese? Hardly. The Brazilians? Hardly. The Vietnamese? Doubtfully. The Finns? Doubtful too. Ok, I'm at a loss. Wonder if anyone can come up with brighter guesses?

Re:Who will benefit? (5, Insightful)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281268)

The question is really: Who would benefit from diminishing any country's Internet access during a time of war with that nation? Alternatively, conclusively proving that any nation's primary Internet backbone was destroyed might itself be the spark that ignites a war... who might benefit from that? Things get complicated pretty quickly.

Re:Who will benefit? (3, Interesting)

HumanEmulator (1062440) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281296)

Or does someone benefit because they now have the ability to poke through all the traffic that is now being rerouted through their borders?

Re:Who will benefit? (4, Interesting)

pubjames (468013) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281306)

well, if you wanted to put a tap on a communication line I should think an outage would be very useful for you - it would give you time to install the tap with no one noticing. Otherwise installing a tap would be an extremely slow process, and one which potentially could be detected.

Re:Who will benefit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281372)

But cutting all three cables as has been done here is pretty conspicuous, which completely defeats the purpose of trying to avoid detection.

It seems like a bit of a "fuck you" to Iran from the US, I think.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

dspisak (257340) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281570)

Have you actually seen how an undersea cable is constructed? I find it highly dubious that someone would attempt tapping an undersea cable. Sure it sounds great on paper, but in practice doing it would require specialized custom made equipment to do it. And even then you would still have the possibility of the tap being discovered when the cable is having maintenance performed on it.

Re:Who will benefit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22282098)

I find it highly dubious that someone would attempt tapping an undersea cable.

Because the entire telecom infrastructure for the whole world is underwater, so both ends of the cable are underwater.

Tapping the cable doesn't require any fancy subs or fiber splitters, you just unplug it from the original router and plug it into your special router in AT&Ts special room. People probably wouldn't even notice the two or three second blip because they happen all the time.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

treat (84622) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282816)

Sorry, but the NSA is known to have tapped undersea cables.

They have the resources for custom made equipment, you know.

I don't think the NSA is too worried about their spying being discovered, as long as the media does not widely publicize it.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

rcpitt (711863) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283058)

So creating a specialized vessel just to do undersea fibre taps seems out of the question? Depends on whose budget you're talking about Take a look at the stuff on Project Jennifer at Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]

Re:Who will benefit? (2, Informative)

Oktober Sunset (838224) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283286)

I think we already established in a previous story on this that the US has a submarine with modifications especially for for cable tapping. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter [wikipedia.org]

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22286092)

I don't know if we should be pointing the finger at the US too soon. All manner of groups and nations have interests in the area and have the resources required to carry out this kind of sabotage, if it is sabotage. We'll find out soon anyway. Due date for repairs is around 10 days from now.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

Oktober Sunset (838224) | more than 6 years ago | (#22287082)

if the US had used the Carter to tap a cable, they would do it without any interruption, that is the whole point of the thing.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22289074)

if the US had used the Carter to tap a cable, they would do it without any interruption, that is the whole point of the thing.
I am pretty certain that tapping the cable has nothing to do with why these lines are cut. The idea that this could be a prelude to war, though, does make a lot of sense, for the purposes of isolating Iran (eg: so they cannot get external intelligence easily, and cannot report casualty numbers in a timely manner, for example, in the event of a nuclear strike.)

youtube showing cable construction & cable sh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22285426)

Alcatel-Lucent's 140 m cable vessel, Ile de Sein, one of the most powerful cable ships in the industry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1JEuzBkOD8 [youtube.com]

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281596)

If you cut three at the same time, people start to wonder and pay much more attention to both the repairs and the remaining lines.

This could be something like: OK, we are going to do something, but we do not want anybody in the world to know about it, so how do we do it? Cut off their intertubes. That way they can not tell anubody else.

Installing a tab you do not do by entering a building and tell the people there is a problem with the phone, after you caused that disturbence. What you do is place the bugs, without anybody having anything in their memory that could link it to a specific time and space.

If on purpose, it was not because they could isten in. If anything, the reason was that they coul NOT listen in. This way the laces that they CAN listen in will be still open.

Obviously this will also let the people you want to listen in on, be aware of that, so perhaps they can NOT listen in on those other lines and let them believe they can so those lines (be it phone, mue ar smoke signal) are closed and new lines of information are opend, where you hope you can listen in on.

It is strange that a country that is on the USofAs shitlist is blocked out.

Re:taps (5, Interesting)

yidele (947452) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281820)

This isn't an analog line, genius. The traffic of interest is in the client/ tributary payload, so the logical place to put a tap is where the container terminates or where it is switched. that means a telecom data center, not the bottom of the ocean. Additionally you needen't "splice" into live media ( thereby causing noticeable loss of traffic and noticably increased signal attenuation afterwards) - telecom transmission technology allows switching to protection at speeds 50 milisec, which is not noticable to human hearing...anyway, the data of interest would be on an encrypted data, not voice channel. 80GB is a lot of voice traffic, to sort this out in realtime you'd need a pretty stout set of telecomm eqpt. Consider that a single voice channel is 64kbps, also the fact that voice traffic ( if going over tdm and not voip) is multiplexed into sdh most likely carried over dwdm/wdm. A single e1 ( 2 mb/s) carries up to 32 voice channels, there are 70 e1 worth of payload in an stm1 , which is 155 mb/sec. How are you going to monitor this many discrete ( and multiplexed, encoded ) signals at once? do you even realize how much traffic that is? don't forget that sizable portion of voice goes over data ntwks as voip, and you can have ip using bridged ethernet over sdh, ima over multiple e1, mpls, atm or directly on top of sdh ( short list, there are many more possibilties)... anyway, if you want to listen in, you'd better do it somewhere you can actually do something with that data. having said all that, i think this is a good low tech way to test their readiness....

Re:Who will benefit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22282574)

might be that Echelon guys become too frustrated they did not have their hands on such a major link; and USS XYZ did all the work necessary?

Perhaps it is time for fibre with "stop stations"; ie devices placed on the way say every few miles able to return control signal when the cable is cut. This way not only you could locate where the initial cut (the one to disrupt), but also the second one - one placing the bug.
After doing repairs yoou would neeed to check only limited section for any bugs

Re:Who will benefit? (4, Insightful)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282760)

If someone wants to tap a communication line, there are a hell of a lot of easier ways to doing it -- above water, no less -- than by having a single ship drop anchor off Egypt in bad weather, destroying precisely the two needed cables, drawing the attention of the entire world via both technical and mainstream press, and then sending a flotilla of repair vessels which are really part of a secret mission to tap the cables, while numerous non-US personnel involved in the cable raising, repair, and testing process all maintain complete secrecy.

Wow, the conspiracy loons are really out for this one. Your "9/11 Truth" action meetings are starting to miss you, guys.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#22292922)

This is not some theory buddy it is fact! It all started when they put fluoride in our water! Next came barcodes to track everything we buy. Then came RFID tags in our money so even if we pay cash we are tracked. Now they are going to put RFID tags in our clothes which will be the real mark of the beast.

Yes I am kidding. I had to put that in because I just realized that I couldn't make up anything dumber than what I have read on the internet.

Re:Who will benefit? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281338)

omg, it's the Jooooos. and their hurricane Katrina-causing weather machines. and Bush.

Re:Who will benefit? (4, Funny)

CaptainPatent (1087643) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281404)

The question I have not seen posed yet. Who will benefit? Who will benefit of this outage?
It's apparent from the article that statisticians and colored-chart advocates have benefited from this outage... if that helps.

Re:Who will benefit? (0, Flamebait)

flyneye (84093) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282184)

How about Muslim Fundamentalists earning another virgin for the service of protecting Allahs people from the great Satans misinformation feed?
Makes ya think,donut?
Islam better than pork?
Does the "Holy Diver""Live In A Muslim Submarine"?

Re:Who will benefit? (0, Troll)

lazylion (101229) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282518)

Well, obviously, the White House ordered these attacks. They've been trying to delay the opening of the Iranian Oil Bourse [wikipedia.org] for years and now that it is finally almost here [presstv.ir] , and their plans to invade Iran are dwindling [washingtonpost.com] , this is all they can do. And sadly, I'm sure it will work, too. That's how they prop up the US Dollar -- For the past 50 years, there have been only 2 [nymex.com] places [wikipedia.org] in the entire world where one can legally buy oil and both require US Dollars. Now, that will remain the case for another year. Of course, Russia [kommersant.com] is working on it, too as well as Venezuela [worldnetdaily.com] , but they're a long way off and lots can go wrong between now and then. Maybe another military invasion [cbs3.com] ? :o(

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282692)

So, to clarify, the White House ordered "a ship [...] to moor off the coast of Egypt in bad weather on Wednesday" [guardian.co.uk] ?

Here's some more conspiracy fodder for you: a third cable, Falcon, is also damaged [breitbart.com] . Must be the White House!

Oh, wait...it's just the incredible fragility of our undersea cable network finally being embarrassingly exposed.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22284616)

So, to clarify, the White House ordered "a ship [...] to moor off the coast of Egypt in bad weather on Wednesday"? Here's some more conspiracy fodder for you: a third cable, Falcon, is also damaged. Must be the White House! Oh, wait...it's just the incredible fragility of our undersea cable network finally being embarrassingly exposed.
You're right, the media contradicts the idea of a military operation, but this doesn't exclude it absolutely. It's about the time of year when people have been expecting some kind of movement against Iran. Someone's special ops people could well be responsible for this amazing coincidence, and, being clever and special, why would they pass up the confusion of bad weather to get the job done?

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

Master of Transhuman (597628) | more than 6 years ago | (#22286270)

Egypt is now saying that no ship was near the location of the cut. They had onshore cameras viewing the area and reviewed the video. The area of the cut is also a "no-go" zone for ships. They're saying no ship did the cut.

Of course, this still allows for smugglers or whatever. We need more details. Was the cut on a portion of the cable which was suspended? That's easier to do than one that's closer to the ocean floor.

Also, if no visible ship did the cut, that means no SURFACE ship. That only leaves a submarine or submersible from a ship outside the "no-go" zone. And that means deliberate sabotage, probably outside the capability of any private actor.

Only two nations with submarines would benefit from cutting off Iran or other ME nations - the US and Israel.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

kenwd0elq (985465) | more than 6 years ago | (#22287208)

Master of Transhuman says: "Egypt is now saying that no ship was near the location of the cut. They had onshore cameras viewing the area and reviewed the video. The area of the cut is also a "no-go" zone for ships. They're saying no ship did the cut." Denial of responsibility is fairly common for everybody, but is positively epidemic in the Middle East. The Egyptians aren't exactly the most believable sources. Sometimes accidents happen. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the US wanted to tap Middle East communications links. I am NOT ready to believe that they would have done so in so amateurish a fashion.

Who will "benefit"? (1)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282656)

From what?

The already-confirmed fact that one clumsy ship can cut off internet access for 75 million people [guardian.co.uk] with one ill-advised drop of the anchor?

So if you're implying the US is somehow behind this with your cutesy little message feigning ignorance, get a life.

Re:Who will benefit? (2, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283030)

Who could it be, I just don't know. Could it be... Satan??

Re:Who will benefit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22283358)

They're just re-routing Middle Eastern traffic through Europe so they can sniff a sample of ALL their outbound internet traffic. Come on, it's not that hard to figure out.

Re:Who will benefit? (0, Troll)

GooberToo (74388) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283888)

When I first heard about this only one thing popped into my head. I'm sure some will call me paranoid but those that do sound like idiots given the US's recurring history. This outage sounds exactly like a US military/CIA ploy to place snooping equipment inline. The US has a long history of doing exactly this, especially with the Russians. Sure, I may be wrong but once you consider those cables are well marked, the chances of them accidentally becoming broken are astronomically unlikely. The only likely scenario is one driven by the US' desire to spy.

Sure I could be wrong but it's far more likely I'm right.

I do not believe the intent is to "cut off" but that spy with a cover story.

Re:Who will benefit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22284464)

4chan, it's got about 25% fewer trolls.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22284578)

One of the first acts of war in WWII by the Allies was the cutting of deep sea communications cables to Germany. Iran is still cut off from this service disruption, whereas Israel is not. Who knows if that has anything to do with this.

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

KlausBreuer (105581) | more than 6 years ago | (#22284688)

Pretty obvious, isn't it?

http://www.internettrafficreport.com/asia.htm [internettr...report.com]

Looks like Iran is the one loosing *all* internet access... a pure coincidence, I'm sure...

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22285982)

Here is a good reason;
Iran's euro-denominated (oil-exchange) will go live next week.

Now tell me who is the worst hit country?

Re:Who will benefit? (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22286050)

Now tell me who is the worst hit country?
Sadly I don't think the internet is the only thing about to be hit in Iran.

Get your facts straight (1)

SnapperJo (789775) | more than 6 years ago | (#22286938)

1) Who will benefit from this communication disruption?

Any business that sees the businesses in the Middle East and parts of South East Asia as direct competitors will be glad their competitors are having a rough time. Same is true for countries, and even guilds on some WoW servers (on my old server there was a 'Kuwaiti Elites' guild populated by *gasp* Kuwaitis).

2) The Outage is Not Complete

There is not one country that is entirely cut off. Traffic is slow as hell due to modern day loads being pushed onto outdated cables and overlapping routes. The 'outage' is not just Internet either, but also telephone lines.

Want proof the outages aren't total? Okay. A number of Iranian university websites are still up and running and accessible. 'Breaking News' from Sri Lanka appeared on the BBC when terrorists bombed a bus on the day a 3rd cable was reported to be broken. Sorry, communication is slow but existent.

3) No One Would Have Noticed A Tap

I'm sorry, but any moron who things that the outages are caused by a tap are retarded. As stupid as American legislation and administration can be, and how some inexperienced ground pounders fresh out of high school act, the U.S. Military is pretty damn professional. They know their crap. Almost all the 'blunders' you see in the news are from Civilian agencies.

Further more, the Jimmy Carter is DESIGNED specifically to be able to tap these lines covertly. The military doesn't actually commission and use things that are a total failure. If the Jimmy Carter can really tap wires, you bet your ass it can do it well.

On top of that, no one even NOTICED that a submarine cable was damaged until a SECOND one was hit, 3 and a half hours later. That's when traffic flow all the sudden hit a brick wall and was being funneled through a single, outdated, cable.

4) Legal Implications

Finally, for those other conspiracy nuts, the U.S. isn't going to be 'invading another Middle East country after they disrupt the communications' and is unlikely to be 'monitoring the traffic coming over it's network invasively.'

And why not? Because there is no way Congress is able to hold a secret like a declaration of war these days, and they're legally bound to inform the public as soon as is possible. If the President orders it, his ass is in a sling because he can't legally do that. Aside from that, as recent history shows, the U.S. is pretty good at quick invasions. What happens after the initial 'take over' is typically abysmal, but on the assault their very sharp. If the U.S. disrupted these communications lines in order to invade some country, they'd already be bragging that they took it over AND the resistance (which everyone outside the U.S. would probably call freedom fighters if the U.S. was stupid enough to do something like this) would have already gotten the word out BECAUSE THE OUTAGE ISN'T COMPLETE.

Now for the monitoring, that's a maybe. It's unlikely because the networks are owned by Telcos. If the bill proposing immunity for the Telcos passes, then I'd say its almost a certainty. Liberty of American Citizens would be hamstrung by a governmental party that doesn't want to admit it's a little facist, and another one that's almost apathetic. If it fails, then most Telcos would tell the U.S. government to fuck off until they get a warrant, but then there would be a paper trail. Of course, given the communication monitoring capabilities of the U.S. government, it wouldn't be too hard for them to do so anyways.

Anyways the point to all this, this is suspicious crap in these times. But insofar every conspiracy theory is working on circumstantial evidence at the best, and almost all of it is pure hypothesis. On February 12th we'll know what happened to the cables for sure. FLAG and the consortium that owns and operates SEA-ME-WE 4 have no reason to cooperate with any but their respective governments, none of which are actually the US!

So stop spreading hearsay and panic! Do some research even, it only takes an afternoon to verify everything I've said.

Who funds these studies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281274)

So they concluded that cut data cables causes a loss of internet service. Good job guys!

the effects of glowbull warmongering on all of us (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281294)

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080108/ts_alt_afp/ushealthfrancemortality;_ylt=A9G_RngbRIVHsYAAfCas0NUE [yahoo.com]
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is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.

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(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7

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Effect? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281328)

I'll tell you what the effect is. It's pissing me off!

Re:Effect? (1)

Lt.Hawkins (17467) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281956)

Back off man, Dr. Venkman's a ghostbuster.

True men of genius (4, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281350)

Study finds that countries with more international fibre links suffers less when one is cut.

honestly, where do these idiots come from, and why does it get posted on /.

Re:True men of genius (1)

ale_ryu (1102077) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281366)

Yeah, besides, this is like the 5th article about the fibre cut in the last three days. It's becoming quite uninteresting...

Re:True men of genius (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281574)

Its a slow news week.
either that or ive been spending way to much time on /. this weekend.

Re:True men of genius (1)

wik (10258) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283478)

> Its a slow news week.

I thought the problem was a slow net.

Re:True men of genius (1)

kashif.ahsan (1130667) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281648)

Dude... i know it may sound redundant but i guess what the poster is trying to say that if a country like Pakistan (and i live in Karachi, Pakistan) can work almost unaffected (we did had an outage for 3-6 ours in some parts including our part of the city) how can India, which has the biggest outsourcing and call center businesses running can't do the same...

Re:True men of genius (3, Informative)

RealGrouchy (943109) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282248)

if a country like Pakistan (and i live in Karachi, Pakistan) can work almost unaffected (we did had an outage for 3-6 ours in some parts including our part of the city) how can India, which has the biggest outsourcing and call center businesses running can't do the same...
FTAS, it seems fairly clear that Pakistan has had a major outage before. So it would seem natural to conclude that Pakistan learned from Pakistan's outage, but India didn't.

Now, India can perhaps add more lines, or it might decide that additional redundancy is not worth the expense, or isn't a priority.

- RG>

Re:True men of genius (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22283300)

While it is certainly true that India can use more fibre (The government, businesses et al. are notoriously slow on the uptake here - circa 10 years ago, the entire bandwidth in the country was under 1Mbps and tracerouting a local friend usually involved a trip to the US (MCI)), it is quite inaccurate to state that Indian Internet has been brought to a standstill. VSNL, the sole player until a few years ago is completely fine as it does not use any of the affected cables (FLAG, SEA-ME-WE) as it has its own by way of its subsidiary, Teleglobe. Bharti Airtel is suffering from a significant cut in capacity, but is managing. The main affected parties appears to be Reliance which owns FLAG telecom, Satyam (whose connections are usually so bad that its users probably haven't noticed much of a difference) and a few dedicated leased line providers.

All the above companies loathe to work with each other. India established NIXI (National Internet Exchange) a few years ago, which peers ISPs from around the country. I have no idea whether they have stepped into this issue.

Re:True men of genius (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282700)


Study finds that countries with more international fibre links suffers less when one is cut.

Science isn't only about measuring things we don't think we understand. It's also about measuring things we think we do understand, and seeing if we actually do.

Ameircans much? (0, Troll)

SilentGhost (964190) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281390)

Pakistan is not in Mediterranean. Outage is not throughout Mediterranean. that's like basic geography, people!

Re:Ameircans much? (1)

MichailS (923773) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281470)

They aren't saying that Pakistan is near the Mediterranean, they are saying that since Pakistan gets its traffic THROUGH the Mediterranean, they were affected.

Re:Ameircans much? (1)

SilentGhost (964190) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281960)

Can you read headline? so do it. How is the headline relevant to content of the post?

Re:Ameircans much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281472)

lol mediterranean? please slashdot - get real...

Re:Ameircans much? (1)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282124)

No, the fiber outage was in the Mediterranean, and that caused internet outage in the Middle-east and South Asia.

Re:Ameircans much? (4, Funny)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282222)

We all know, but some jackass decided that "Mediterranean" should serve as a convenient, politically correct euphemism for "Middle Eastern".

They really just wanted to sell hummus without people realizing that's what Arabs eat.

And the conclusions are (0, Flamebait)

fasuin (532942) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281398)

So 5 pages to conclude that under bandwidth constraints packet loss and RTT increase? WoW!!!

Mediterranean? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281424)

So now Pakistan and India are Mediterranean countries? World is changing really fast...

What about those plots? (1)

DerCed (155038) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281514)

I also think we have to invent a new award for the ugliest plots ever seen.. Jeez!

Observations from Dubai (4, Interesting)

Paktu (1103861) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281614)

I'm posting this from Dubai- near Media City/Internet City for those who are familiar. Certain sites seem to work pretty well- Fark for some reason loads very quickly. Other sites (including Slashdot) are about as fast as AOL in 1994. Speeds seem to not always correlate to usage levels; around noon it's usually not terrible but late at night browsing is almost impossible. Anyone else care to share their own observations?

Re:Observations from Dubai (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281866)

In Dubai at the moment. I'm using the Etisalat ADSL connection. I believe the Internet City region is routed differently. As I recall, internet usage there was unaffected the last time we had a damaged cable.

Slashdot speeds seem to be the same as ever for me. On the other hand, my WoW latency went from 500ms to...well...to some very strange behavior. When I log in, it's at 300ms...and slowly over 5 minutes, it builds up to something like 5000ms, and then disconnects me.

Filesharing over Gnutella2 is down to 4-5 kbps per file max ( as opposed to earlier speeds of 50-60 kbps ). Multiple file downloading brings everything down to 0-1 kbps.

Haven't tried BitTorrent.

question (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281952)

What are the stock market traders saying there? Has this had an impact at all?

Re:question (1)

Paktu (1103861) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282024)

I haven't heard/read about any actual complaints from traders, it's all speculation that this "might" affect their operations. My hunch is that the more critical stuff like this is getting priority, while the rest of us share the very limited remaining bandwidth.

thanks! (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283996)

Thanks for the answer! I was just suspicious of three "cuts" in a row during this time of both geopolitical uncertainty and also some rather severe market pressure. There appears to be gathering forces there to detach the various local currencies from a strict dollar peg and go to a bundled basket of currencies.

Re:Observations from Dubai (1)

yahyamf (751776) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283660)

I'm also near Media City, which is in the free zones, and generally has better Internet service.

Outside the zones, from my home ping times are over 1100ms to my server in the US. I'm running asterisk with the speex codec. It performs remarkably well despite the lag.

They've also blocked all ports except the web, email, ssh and a few others. Bittorent, and other p2p software isn't working. Youtube wasn't working yesterday, but it is today.

Re:Observations from Dubai (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22285052)

This outage may not have been long enough, but...

If you examine prior history, I think there is a correlation between electrical outages lasting several days and the birth rate about 9 months later.

Holy crap! (3, Interesting)

rindeee (530084) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281702)

The conspiracy theorists are coming out of the woodwork on this one. It's an anchor drag folks. The last thing any 'conspirator' wants is comms to be cut off. Quite the opposite in fact.

Re:Holy crap! (1, Interesting)

yahyamf (751776) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283692)

An anchor drag accross two cables in the Mediterranean is quite plausible, but what about the third one off the coast of Dubai in less than a week? That's not even the same sea.

It might just be a cover up for incompetency. but I don't buy the three accidental anchor drags story.

There were similar outages due to supposedly broken cables a year (or two?) ago in the Indian ocean, which affected UAE Internet services. Those cables were dozens of kilometers apart too.

Re:Holy crap! (1)

Captain Nitpick (16515) | more than 6 years ago | (#22284094)

An anchor drag accross two cables in the Mediterranean is quite plausible, but what about the third one off the coast of Dubai in less than a week? That's not even the same sea.

Gambler's fallacy. A random event happening does not affect the future probability of the random event happening. And why would it be in the same sea? We're talking about separate ships here.

It might just be a cover up for incompetency. but I don't buy the three accidental anchor drags story.

Two. Two anchor drags.

There were similar outages due to supposedly broken cables a year (or two?) ago in the Indian ocean, which affected UAE Internet services. Those cables were dozens of kilometers apart too.

The cables in the Mediterranean were only a few hundred meters apart near the shore where they were cut. They're only sending one ship to fix both.

Re:Holy crap! (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22286026)

There were no ships in the area [abc.net.au] when the cables were disrupted. Conspiracy theories are of course just theories, but you are a fool if you accept everything you hear and read at face value.

Re:Holy crap! (1)

Master of Transhuman (597628) | more than 6 years ago | (#22286296)

The Egyptians are now saying they had onshore cameras viewing the area of the cut, which apparently was close to shore. They say no ships transited that area during the time of the cut. They also say that area is a "no-go" zone for ships - whose charts would identify the presence of the cable.

Of course, that still leaves smuggler ships or whatever. We don't know if the cut was in a portion of the cable suspended closer to the surface, which is more vulnerable than cables nearer the ocean floor.

But as of now, the Egyptians are saying that cut was not done by a ship anchor drag.

SEAMEWE? (4, Funny)

theskipper (461997) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281768)

What a coincidence, last night I met a girl in an AOL chatroom with the exact same name.

The Effects of the Fibre Outage (2, Funny)

Peet42 (904274) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281802)

...has led to blockages in http://www.google.com/tisp/ [google.com] that seem immune to data-flushing.

single point of failure (2, Insightful)

petes_PoV (912422) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281880)

What's interesting to see from all of this is that most of the american east-coast cables terminate in NY (OK, probably not all at exactly the same spot, but with enough concentration to cause concern). We have seen the effect of a couple of accidental cable cuts in widely different places. Imagine what would happen if a ship accidentally dragged it's anchor across a proportion of the cables coming into New York, especially the fat ones. Now imagine if it wasn't an accident and there was more than 1 ship involved....

When I was doing work on resilient architectures for companies, we were always telling then to install redundant and diverse cables, so 1 accident wouldn't chop all their connections.

It looks like this lesson has not been fully learned.

Re:single point of failure (4, Informative)

anticypher (48312) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282554)

Your ignorance stems from lack of knowledge, because you aren't looking at real maps, just some graphics made by someone with absolutely no knowledge of the topic who had to make something, by deadline. The telegeography maps are the worst, it's as if they've gone to great lengths to get it as wrong as possible.

There are at least 60 separate landing spots on the east coast of north america, from Miami up into Newfoundland. All those cables that look like they go to NY actually land at various spots on long island and in NJ, but then get hauled overland into the data centers in the NY area.

There is as much redundancy and diversity as could be engineered in, given the budget constraints that the fibre system has to some day earn a profit. Undersea topography plays a big part as well, certain parts of the ocean just can't be used to safely lay fibre upon. There is also a need to avoid busy ports and shipping lanes. All taken into consideration when financing a US$1Billion cable.

I already posted in a previous thread about the Suez Canal, where many /.ers thought the fibres went along the bottom of the canal, because that is what some low-res graphics seemed to show. The reality is all the fibres that hit Egypt do so away from Suez, travel overland, then hit the Red Sea at various diverse points. It is much easier and cheaper to put in overland fibre systems, and certainly easier to maintain by sending a truck full of engineers out rather than wait for a repair ship to be scheduled. Undersea fibres are also much cheaper for shorter hauls with more landings, because of all the power requirements for repeaters.

the AC

Re:single point of failure (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282956)

It is much easier and cheaper to put in overland fibre systems, and certainly easier to maintain by sending a truck full of engineers out rather than wait for a repair ship to be scheduled. Undersea fibres are also much cheaper for shorter hauls with more landings, because of all the power requirements for repeaters.

Does that last sentence say what you meant it to say? That in the short haul, underwater cables are cheaper than landed one? Just curious because it would seem backwards, especially as laying them down entails specialized equipment and skills.

Re:single point of failure (1)

budgenator (254554) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283826)

Makes sense an underwater cable just lays on the bottom so it's cheaper as long as you don't need repeaters that have to be powered underwater, land-based cables have to be either buried or set up in poles so they are more expensive to install but it's easier and cheaper to get power to the repeaters, that are themselves cheaper because they don't have to be waterproof only weather-proof; somewhere the expense curve cross.

Re:single point of failure (4, Informative)

anticypher (48312) | more than 6 years ago | (#22286122)

Yeah, those last two sentences don't stand on their own. They are two separate things, each needs more explanation.

Over land, rights of way can be quite expensive. Under sea, once away from a coastline, a fibre doesn't require any property rights payments.

Over land, fibre runs are not very well protected in some areas, often attracting the evil backhoe or other dangerous mechanica. What makes fibre on land cheap is the ability to put in easily to maintain repeaters and dispersion compensators, and electricity can be obtained locally. Repairs are also relatively cheap and rapid.

Under water and once away from the immediate coastline, there isn't much dangerous to fibres except boat anchors, and the occasional earthquake caused rockfall. Fibre runs, still need active electronics every 80 to 300 Kms to boost the signal, shape it, or compensate for dispersion. To power electronics far away out to sea, the only place to put electricity is at the landing point. The longest Pacific Ocean fibres require something like 25,000 volts at 10 amps from each end to power the most distant repeaters. That means the first sections of a fibre support cladding need to carry huge currents and have large dielectrics to prevent arc-overs.

If you can build additional landing points to provide electricity, you can build cheaper fibres. With the most recent advances in optic fibre quality, a run up to 200 Kms doesn't even need repeaters, some manufacturers are claiming 320 Kms without a repeater with the most modern optics powering the signal. That makes short run underwater fibres about the same cost with less risks of cuts.

the AC

Not every one is suffering (1)

smartdreamer (666870) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281890)

Not everyone is suffering from this outage. Looking at the throughput map, we can see that Iran and China have increased (2x) their throughputs. I presume this can be explained by the fact they don't share the surviving lines anymore.

Pakistan on the Mediterranean? (1)

slashbart (316113) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281916)

Man o man, geography must be a really hard subject

mod Do]wn (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281940)

minutes. If that. 7ube is wiped off

Amy I the only one? (1)

hibiki_r (649814) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281942)

Am I the only one that finds it funny to find a blurb that mentions the Mediterranean Sea and lists countries like India and Pakistan?

"overseas" (1)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 6 years ago | (#22281984)

Am I the only one that finds it funny to find a blurb that mentions the Mediterranean Sea and lists countries like India and Pakistan?
This is a site from the US of A, so, yeah, no one else noticed ;-)

Re:Amy I the only one? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22282702)

Am I the only one that finds it funny to find a blurb that mentions the Mediterranean Sea and lists countries like India and Pakistan?

How do you think those countries are connected to Europe? And don't call me Amy.

Re:Amy I the only one? (1)

Velocir (851555) | more than 6 years ago | (#22285880)

Yeah I noticed it too, but I'm from NZ. It's also strange considering the previous stories were talking about the Middle East, which is obviously also distinct from both the Mediterranean and countries like Pakistan and India. Americans are so funny sometimes :P

Re:Amy I the only one? (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 6 years ago | (#22285942)

The was another story last night that apparently gave India an Atlantic coast, and now it has a Mediterranean coast. Obviously global warming is having a faster effect than we expected :)

To be serious there is a flow on effect and these cables are long. A backhoe near Seattle cut most of Australia off the net just a month or two ago.

I wonder about the callcentres... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22281964)

I wonder how all those American companies that offshored all their call centres to India are doing... Most of their phones are VoIP. Would be nice to see that all their so-called "tech support" doesn't work until the fibres are repaired. Might make them think twice about such idiocy. As someone that works in a call centre for a smaller ISP here, I always get a chuckle from the (nearly daily) call where someone basically thanks me for being white and in Canada. They're not racist, they just hate poor service, and India's culture is not service oriented in any way at all (ex: In India/Pakistan, showing up 2 or 3 hours late for an appointment is okay [for both apointee and apointed]. I know this from having dealt with dozens of people from either culture and that is their personal experience when they were living there also. Here, if you are more than 15 minutes late you can't expect the other person to have waited any longer for you.) That along with the caste system just seals the deal.

Re:I wonder about the callcentres... (1)

eharvill (991859) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282440)

They're not racist, they just hate poor service, and India's culture is not service oriented in any way at all (ex: In India/Pakistan, showing up 2 or 3 hours late for an appointment is okay [for both apointee and apointed]. I know this from having dealt with dozens of people from either culture and that is their personal experience when they were living there also.
I have had quite the different experiences when I've called Dell support a few times over the last year. The person(s) I dealt with were overly polite, to the point it was insanely annoying.

"May I please put you on hold for 2 minutes sir?"
Yes, that is fine.
"Thank you sir for your extreme patience sir"
2 minutes pass...
"Thank you for holding sir, I appreciate your patience sir. I apologize for your inconvenience sir"
etc...
They spent more time saying "please," "thank you," and "sorry" than troubleshooting the actual issue. Then I would spend another 5-10 minutes on the phone (after the issue was resolved) with a supervisor verifying everything was completed to my satisfaction. Ug.
My biggest problem with the customer service was the lack of knowledge/understanding and everything was read from a script. That is typical and has little to do with where the customer service is outsourced. If Dell had their support out of the US or wherever, I guarantee the same issues (call a cell phone or cable company lately?).

Routing protocols? (1)

Crackez (605836) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282146)

Does anyone know what routing protocols these sites would be running?

I'm guessing BGP, but if that is the case, is this indicative of a failure to properly implement it? Or would this be the expected behavior from a well engineered network under these circumstances?

ISIS more likely (1)

squaretie (1232624) | more than 6 years ago | (#22287512)

or maybe a bunch of statics ;)

and Pakistan has all that fiber because (1)

ILongForDarkness (1134931) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282156)

NATO troops in Pakistan and Afganistan need bandwidth for Skype and porn.

Re:and Pakistan has all that fiber because (1)

budgenator (254554) | more than 6 years ago | (#22284254)

My son just got back from Iraq, they all chipped in and got a satellite dish, and wired the billets with Ethernet cable; the dish aimed 13 degrees above the horizon. If they needed to talk they just used a cellphone like everyone else. Afghanistan is a bit more rustic but not as much as you'd think.

Still a government conspiracy! (1)

Doug52392 (1094585) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282246)

I've seen a lot of government conspiracies, but this one is so odvous. We all know our government LOVES to spy, so what would stop the NSA from deciding it's legal to watch everything everyone else is doing?

I still believe the NSA broke the cable when they pulled up in their subs to drill into the cable and watch all the data going through

Was that "ship" that allegedly broke the cable ever named? No? So how does anyone confirm that the ship really did it? It's the government's fault!

Re:Still a government conspiracy! (1)

FromTheAir (938543) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282394)

Well they would need to pick the cable up to tap it and perhaps the extreme weather, divine intervention stopped them. If they were going to tap it then they would need to feed the data to something? What and how would they do this? I doubt they layed another fiber cable. Would it not make more sense to tap it where it meets the land, where it is already probably tapped? What if the intention was to demonstrate that they could be cut off from the world or to see how it would affect them?

Mysterious Force at Work (1)

FromTheAir (938543) | more than 6 years ago | (#22282312)

I would think that it could just coincidence, as in something not orchestrated by men.

But we all know there are no accidents in an intelligent universe.

As for the possibility that it was an effort coordinated by some government intelligence agency or group I would rate it that probability very low.

It could be due to extreme weather which is altering ship behavior in the region.

However this low probability incident occurring in a set of three with such a close proximity in time is against random odds.

I suspect there may be a mysterious force at work, like the one in Infinite Play the Movie, http://infiniteplaythemovie.com/mysterious_force.aspx [infiniteplaythemovie.com] a sort of all pervading intelligence.

Of course there is a culprit lurking in the background a new characters that has been entering the scene. Extreme Weather which will be increasing as more energy enters the global system producing turbulence.

It could be a sign! That extreme weather has entered the chain of cause and effect and we best are prepared and ready to adapt.

Yes, a mysterious force operating behind the scenes part of some divine plan and the unfolding of our evolution.

The need-some-unclogging-of-the-tubes dept? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22282470)

This one should definitely have been from the department-of-redundancy-department!

Oh the humanity! (1)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 6 years ago | (#22283100)

Who's suffering most? Wealthy kids in those regions who can no longer connect to Blizzard and play WoW.

Imagine the chaos that would ensue if South Korea had all of its connections (or a fair amount of them) severed. On the one hand, I'm sure productivity would be hampered by their network speeds slowing down dramatically (if the fair amount), or completely (if all were severed.) On the othe hand, I'm sure there would be a giant spike in non-computer activities as Starcraft servers see their workloads drop to 1% of their averages.

Cable no thicker than thumb at some points (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22284436)

"The pair of cables -- which lie near each other on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea -- at some points are no thicker than the average human thumb."

From CBC News: "No quick fix for undersea cables serving India"
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/02/01/tech-india.html [www.cbc.ca]

speed increase (1)

Riquez (917372) | more than 6 years ago | (#22285760)

I live on a small island off Japan & although I have a 100Mbps optic-fiber internet connection, my real world speed is about 25Mbps. It's been consistently so since I signed up almost 1 year ago. However, the past few days have revealed a remarkable upturn, I now get a steady 65Mbps. Coincidence?

Isn't it obvious? (1)

KingKaneOfNod (583208) | more than 6 years ago | (#22287140)

The effect of the fibre outage will be mass constipation!
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