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How Microsoft-Yahoo Will Affect Open Source

CmdrTaco posted more than 6 years ago | from the something-to-think-about dept.

Microsoft 287

jammag writes "If the marriage of Microsoft and Yahoo were to be consummated, GNU/Linux would be hindered, argues Roy Schestowitz. Yahoo's funding of open source initiatives would dry up. Yahoo, which acquired Zimbra, would lose its love for the open source competitor of Microsoft Outlook. The list goes on..."

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All the more reason..... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22295900)

All the more reason why this deal should NOT go through....Anti-Competitive ? I think Microsoft would axe Zimbra in a heart beat.

Re:All the more reason..... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22295962)

"All the more reason why this deal should NOT go through..."

Maybe the deal should go forward. If the predictions of yet another Microsoft failed attempt come true, then I wouldn't cry a single tear for their $45Bn outlay.

Ok by me (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 6 years ago | (#22295918)

I'll be over here using Thunderbird/Icedove. Seriously, I can't remember the last time I used any Yahoo service or product. If Yahoo disappeared from the internet forever, I don't think I'd even notice. What does Yahoo even do that people find valuable anymore?

Who will I ping ? (5, Funny)

sodul (833177) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296112)

ping yahoo.com

I don't know why but I always ping yahoo to troubleshoot my network connection. I guess I'll have to switch to ping 'google.com'

Re:Who will I ping ? (3, Funny)

apollosfire (954290) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296484)

Get with the times, I switched to Google years ago! :P

two vast and trunkless legs of stone.com (4, Funny)

Stanistani (808333) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296584)

Ping av.com - it's shorter to type, is always up, and is a useful reminder that you can have a dominant position in the search market one year, and be practically unused the next.

Re:two vast and trunkless legs of stone.com (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297246)

Even shorter: ping go.to

Re:Who will I ping ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296624)

ping he.net (fewer chars)

Re:Who will I ping ? (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296658)

Honestly, I've been pinging slashdot.org by default since 2000 at least.

Re:Who will I ping ? (4, Funny)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296894)

That's a good move. I don't recall slashdot ever being slashdotted.

Re:Who will I ping ? (1)

Steauengeglase (512315) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296864)

Sadly, that is the last thing I can remember using Yahoo for.

Re:Who will I ping ? (1)

Temujin_12 (832986) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296914)

That is weird that you mention that. The only thing I use Yahoo for is a junk email account that I give away liberally when an email address is required. Yet, for some reason, I ALWAYS ping yahoo.com first when troubleshooting connectivity.

Nothing a quick edit of a hosts file can't fix.

Re:Who will I ping ? (4, Informative)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297162)

"The only thing I use Yahoo for is a junk email account that I give away liberally when an email address is required."

i've started using the 10 minute email [10minutemail.com] instead of yahoo for junk, works wonders :)

Re:Who will I ping ? (3, Informative)

houghi (78078) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297052)

Better use tracert or traceroute instead of ping. That way you can not only see if your network connection is up, but also see what the problem is if it doesn't.

Re:Ok by me (4, Informative)

neumayr (819083) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296332)

There's this little photo sharing site... flickr I think it's called.
Heard it's still pretty popular.
And a social bookmarking site, del.icio.us.

Re:Ok by me (-1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296446)

fliker, Digg, are two big ones.
maps.yahoo.com are pretty nice and I use my.yahoo.com for my home page.
With adaware it is a nice page.

Re:Ok by me (2, Informative)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296642)

Yahoo doesn't own Digg. How does crap like this get modded up?

Re:Ok by me (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296998)

My bad I thought that Digg got bought for a few million by Yahoo back when Yahoo was buying everything.
Must have confused it with Flicker.

Re:Ok by me (1)

Fusen (841730) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296668)

what's Digg got to do with yahoo?

Re:Ok by me (2, Interesting)

milsoRgen (1016505) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296828)

Flickr is fantastic in my opinion. I love the site, the way it works, and it's style. It's very low on clutter yet has plenty of features to keep it interesting... if only Yahoo! could take that same sense of style and, oh I don't know apply it to there main page?

Better yet.

Let's take the sense of design from www.flickr.com
Some of the content from www.yahoo.com
and add it to search.yahoo.com

Not quite the no nonsense beauty of Google, but hopefully not the cluster fuck of links that Yahoo currently is. And at the same time they would be distinguishing themselves somewhat from their main competitor.

Just my 2 cents!

Re:Ok by me (4, Insightful)

jmcbain (1233044) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296722)

Yahoo finance.
Yahoo sports.
Yahoo news.
Yahoo movies.
Yahoo TV.
Yahoo weather.
Flickr (I don't use it though)
Delicious.
Yahoo Answers.
Yahoo maps.

Funny how these appeal to 500M unique visitors each month but not to you. I think it's because Yahoo targets a specific demographic, normal humans, rather than the the 30-year-old burnt-out techies on /. or the 19-year-old college students on Digg or the who-knows perverts on 4chan.

Re:Ok by me (5, Funny)

jaxtherat (1165473) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297348)

rather than the the 30-year-old burnt-out techies on /. or the 19-year-old college students on Digg or the who-knows perverts on 4chan.
You say it like it's a bad thing...

Because you're ignorant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296812)

Yahoo, Google, MSN, etc internet products are nothing more than fronts to the real business. In short, they are just like doubleclick. Remember them? Only difference is that also have a front store that's a search engine.

Most web advertising is handled by a few companies only. I named almost all of them.

Let's just say that yahoo's accounts that matter aren't it's free email accounts!

Re:Ok by me (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296872)

I'm moderating a specialty (antique books of some kind) group on Yahoo Groups. I'd hate it see transformed the way hotmail transformed after Microsoft seized it (turned it into commercial manure, comparatively).

Re:Ok by me (5, Interesting)

dpninerSLASH (969464) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297020)

Please forgive me if this reply is a bit off-topic.

Firstly, I don't believe GNU/Linux development will be seriously hindered. It's long since reached a tipping point past which any major disruptions are unlikely.

This might be a good time, however, for people to begin looking at some of the BSDs. Yes, I realize Yahoo! is a major BSD customer, and should this deal go through I can't see Microsoft permitting the existence of anything else on their servers. Still, the BSDs are also widely deployed, reliable, and many would argue that the BSD license is less encumbering. Also, it has a formal foundation and governance which effectively ensures it's survival.

I've been an open source user/administrator now for over 12 years (12 w/ Linux, 11 w/ BSD) and am surprised at the relatively low uptake for this family of operating systems. In short, Linux ain't the only game in town.

Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22295922)

I'm not sure I understand why this person's opinions are even relevant (obviously the submitter runs the site where this piece was published and needs the ad revenue, not that any normal person would bother submitting something like this to Slashdot). "...argues Roy Schestowitz"? As in "pursuant to the previous insightful and established opinion we've all come to expect from Roy Schestowitz"? Please.

Roy Schestowitz is a non-entity who spends 18 hours a day crapflooding USENET [google.com] (just page back and see who posts there), Digg, Propeller and any number of social bookmarking and discussion websites. This, aside from running who knows how many attack blogs that target Novell, Xandros, Linspire and many others beg the question of whether this is just a lonely poor student with no life whatsoever or a very organized group of people with some serious corporate backing.

Anyone deranged enough to post things like [digg.com] these [digg.com] should be, in my opinion, permanently ignored. The Microsoft-Yahoo merger needs to be analyzed from many angles by people who know what they're talking about, not by paid drones who regurgitate what they read in other blogs and are trying to make a name for themselves by disrupting communities to push their agendas.

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (4, Insightful)

at_slashdot (674436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296118)

How about commenting the message not the person who brings it forth... does "ad hominem" sound like something you've heard before?

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

at_slashdot (674436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296178)

Besides, most of the people on slashdot, fit the description, flooding Internet with crap 18 hours/day, no personal life, etc.

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296310)

If Steven Ballmer was commenting on something, would you have the same attitude about the message? I doubt that.

The source is important because it involves implicit predisposition and the desire to further an agenda, which are orthogonal to the message at hand. The Yahoo buyout is being discussed by a lot of people, most of them more relevant and with more standing within FOSS communities than Roy Schestowitz, who exists mostly as the running gag on Digg and comp.os.linux.advocacy. Those people should be heard and promoted through high-visibility media vehicles like Slashdot.

It's no different than Rob Weir (a full-time salaried employee of IBM) commenting on OOXML. Whatever he has to say is tainted by the fact that his employer has products that compete with the ones he spends most of his work hours slamming.

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296478)

does "ad hominem" sound like something you've heard before?

I don't see why I should listen to anybody with the handle "at_slashdot"...

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

samjam (256347) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296494)

ad hominem doesn't mean attacking the messenger it means an atack of the message that only the messenger recognizes as valid; I.e. its an attack to him and not to others; e.g.

"that would mean there is no gods"

Sam

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

msuarezalvarez (667058) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296640)

No, that is not what `ad hominem' means. Just read the description on Wikipedia or on any decent book on logic.

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

at_slashdot (674436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296674)

Disclaimer: from Wikipedia (yeah, I just edited it...)

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

So talking about the guy that he has no life and he spends 18 hours online is a clear example of ad hominem attack.

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (2, Interesting)

dedazo (737510) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296800)

The first time I ran into this guy was a hack piece he published in his blog (and pushed to Digg, where I found it) about how Novell was on the brink of dying because there had been some internal staff reorganizations. The whole thing was weird, filled with factual inaccuracies and worded in a way that would make you believe that a mid-level manager leaving the company was some sort of proof that the patent deal with Microsoft (bad in itself but irrelevant in this case) was dispensing karma around Provo. He also hinted that Novell was somehow misreporting revenue or something like that, to which someone suggested reporting the alleged misconduct to the SEC. He didn't reply. Interestingly enough he didn't publish a hack piece when RedHat switched CEOs. I'm sorry I don't have a link but it should be easy enough to find in his blog, it's called "boycottnovell.com" or something to that effect. He also runs "boycottlinspire.com" and who knows how many others.

When I say "he" I'm really using a figure of speech, since it seems to me that it's practically impossible for someone who is supposed to be a medical student on a budget to have that massive level of output. That alone would be an angle worth considering.

After all, whenever Dan Lyons or some other person publishes something /. readers don't like the discussion turns into one large ad hominem. Why should everyone else get a pass? Especially when they have dodgy reputations and seem to have done nothing more valuable than foisting ideas from other people about the Yahoo deal.

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297024)

Grandparent isn't strictly making an ad hominem argument, because it doesn't say the article is wrong, it argues that the article should carry little to no weight because the author is not speaking as a valid authority on the subject.

In other words, it's not "Communists think this, so it's wrong", it's "some random guy on a street corner said it, so it probably should be ignored".

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

at_slashdot (674436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297160)

Well yeah, but it's the fault of the slashdot guy who posted the summary, he shouldn't have mentioned any name, he should have said, somebody asked this and this, what do you think? Then people would have responded to the subject, few would have asked "who is that somebody, is he good enough to raise issues"

Holy shit! (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296404)

I thought you were kidding about crap-flooding. This is his Google stats card:

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2006 155 407 917 368 1240 1611 1731 1860 1979 1395 1705 1781
2007 2100 1910 2104 1847 1844 1430 1664 1462 1301 1034 1032 1038
2008 1215


1000 posts a month is about thirty a day. He's been doing _at least_ 30 USENET posts a day, every day, for over two years.

Re:Holy shit! (5, Funny)

QuickFox (311231) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296786)

He's been doing _at least_ 30 USENET posts a day, every day, for over two years.
...says Anonymous Coward, who makes more than 30 posts an hour.

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

sbeckstead (555647) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296534)

An ad hominem attack from an anonymous coward, How refreshing!

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

microbee (682094) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296692)

This guy has no clue about open source anyway. I never heard Yahoo among the names who fund open source. So if we are going to lose a penny or two, fine with me.

Re:Roy Schestowitz, take with prescribed NaCl (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297050)

My motto in life is "I don't care who you are, I care only about what you do." and translated to the inarwebs, "I don't care who you are, I only care what you say.". I try to dissociate the person from their message. It's called being open-minded.

I think we can all agree (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22295924)

All sober patriots will agree that this move will be a harmonious and rapturous restoration of American values and reassert our greatness and superiority over the smug Europeans [shelleytherepublican.com] (who eat cheese!!!)

OPEN SORES (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22295930)

NOBODY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT OPEN SORES AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU.

Suck my dick, Slashdot.
8=============D
Suck it long, and suck it hard.

Zimbra Admins (5, Interesting)

Russianspi (1129469) | more than 6 years ago | (#22295996)

Yeah, administrators of Zimbra based E-mail servers (like me) are starting to panic [zimbra.com] I think a Google bailout/business alliance could be, as one Zimbra developer described it, "manna from heaven".

Re:Zimbra Admins (1)

dagar (84678) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296144)

I too am a Zimbra admin that would not want Yahoo to be bought out by M$.

Re:Zimbra Admins (5, Insightful)

Dancindan84 (1056246) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296212)

Quote from a Zimbra employee in that thread:

The OSS version of Zimbra is just that, Open Source. Whatever happens there should be no change in that status.
The joy of OSS is that if Microsoft/Yahoo discontinue support of Zimbra, someone else can pick it up. If there's a paid "corporate" version, I'm sure a company picking up would include support to migrate. I know that isn't ideal, but it isn't a reason for mass panic either.

Re:Zimbra Admins (1)

Angostura (703910) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296508)

However, however... much of what makes Zimbra interesting to enterprises is held in the Network Edition, which includes large amounts of closed code. For example our company uses a Zimbra hosted service and I usethe Zimbra iSync connector to sync shared calendars on the network with iCal on my machine. There are a quite a few additional components like this which are not open.

Re:Zimbra Admins (4, Interesting)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296808)

The OSS version of Zimbra is just that, Open Source. Whatever happens there should be no change in that status.
Unfortunately it's not true open source, as it has an obnoxious "badgeware" clause.

Zimbra users already seem to be sending out some feelers -- over at the Citadel [citadel.org] project we've had quite a surge of new interest from people who are either bailing out of Zimbra or simply evaluating what other options they might have when Microsoft shuts them down. Citadel is end-to-end GPL code so it is a true safety net.

Re:Zimbra Admins (1)

Ice Station Zebra (18124) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297214)

Does it have repeating calendar events yet? How hard is it to integrate with other applications?

Re:Zimbra Admins (3, Insightful)

jimicus (737525) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296832)

The joy of OSS is that if Microsoft/Yahoo discontinue support of Zimbra, someone else can pick it up. If there's a paid "corporate" version, I'm sure a company picking up would include support to migrate. I know that isn't ideal, but it isn't a reason for mass panic either.

To be fair, I don't know much about Zimbra, but many opensource projects (including some reasonably big ones) are only really well understood at a code level by a relatively small team of people.

If most or all of those people are employed by Yahoo, then even if someone else does pick up the Zimbra project this is a major setback.

Re:Zimbra Admins (1)

kripkenstein (913150) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296816)

Yeah, administrators of Zimbra based E-mail servers (like me) are starting to panic [zimbra.com] I think a Google bailout/business alliance could be, as one Zimbra developer described it, "manna from heaven".
I think that, even if anti-trust authorities agree to this merger, they should make a requirement that Zimbra be spun off or sold. To let Microsoft own Zimbra is extremely anti-competitive, in fact, I can't think of anything more anti-competitive than that.

Yes, Zimbra is a tiny part of Yahoo and not the focus of this deal, but that just makes requiring Zimbra to be spun off a more reasonable requirement.

Re:Zimbra Admins (1)

gotstu (1233062) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297114)

I had looked at Zimbra a while back, but ended up settling down with Citadel instead (http://www.citadel.org).

While Citadel has some really nice technical aspects going for it (fairly self-contained, easy to administer, stable, very fast, small memory footprint, SyncML compliant for over-the-air smartphone/device sync, easily understood and maintainable source), it also has a very active community that is not pulled in various directions commericially. Fundamentally, the most successful projects have been those which have an active community coupled with developers who listen to their user's needs. It's been going strong for many years, and its future looks very bright.

Re:Zimbra Admins (1)

mrsmiggs (1013037) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297338)

Although Zimbra's future is less clear because of this, if the regulators in Europe and North America are doing their job correctly non-core but yet competing Yahoo products such as Zimbra will need to be spun off before any deal gets the green light. That way the deal has very little affect the applications that directly compete with Microsoft's core products such as Office, Windows, Server and xbox (does that count?). Sure in the short term this will lead to some uncertainty around the product but Yahoo's purchase of Zimbra never really felt right in their product line, this will give Zimbra the chance to be picked up by a company where it would actually be a good fit.

Roy Schestowitz (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296024)

Roy Schestowitz is ... a carrot!

Ok, so.. (4, Interesting)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296094)

I don't understand how it would effect Linux (much less the GNU utilities), but it might slow down a few Y! projects. These projects, even if MS succeeds and stops all development on them, will still be continued if someone in the community thinks they are useful. That's the beauty of Open Source.

You miss the point (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297120)

Like real journalists, the bloggy type also try look for new angles on any news story... any way to spin the news into something a bit different.

Of course it does not really matter to GNU/Linux. Don't let fact get in the way of a good story!

It's Official (4, Funny)

linumax (910946) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296098)

BSD is dead, Roy Schestowitz confirms it!

Re:It's Official (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296740)

Roy Schestowitz is dead, BDS confirms it.

zimbra (1)

debatem1 (1087307) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296124)

Zimbra is really designed to be an Exchange killer more than an Outlook killer- which, IMHO, is probably a lot of the motive for Microsoft to do this deal. Exchange is the one part of Microsoft's lineup for which no F/OSS solution exists, and thus remains a powerful argument for maintaining or expanding your Microsoft infrastructure.

Re:zimbra (0, Flamebait)

dedazo (737510) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296436)

The whole point in the article about Zimbra would be relevant if it actually were able to compete against Exchange, which is not the case. It might have its uses and niches, it might be useful and it might nice and cost a lot less, but it does not compete with Exchange any more than GiMP competes with Photoshop.

Products that compete with Microsoft Exchange include Lotus Domino, Novell GroupWise and possibly Google's corporate email/calendaring services, I guess. Zimbra has never been on that list, and probably won't be for a long time.

Re:zimbra (2, Insightful)

neumayr (819083) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296670)

Hehe, yeah, Zimbra will definitely have been the decisive argument when MS decided to spend 45x10^9 USD (even taking up a loan, a first for them) on Yahoo.
Talk about delusional..

Now is the time to get those complaints in. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296132)

It's very rare for mergers to be completely stopped by competition authorities. However, there are lots of cases where they insist on changes in the structure of the company. How about Microsoft divesting control of Internet Explorer and .Net? How about a requirement to increase the value of their Open Source code base by 50% each year? Now is the time to get your company to make useful suggestions to the competition authorities. Actual cases where MS have done harm will help. Specific evidence of their disruption of markets in ways detrimental to consumers is crucial. Remember it's not just increased prices; also examples where MS has killed potentially useful products, for example simply by making people afraid to invest in Open Source solutions are important too.

Remember, if you can do so safely and more or less legally, to ensure that any meetings you have with Microsoft representatives are recorded so that when your management gets turned by them you have enough evidence to stick it to them with the anti-corrurption authorities.

Cathedral and the Bazaar (4, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296152)

So much for the cathedral and the bazaar.

Alas, as Linux has gotten bigger and more complex, it is also requiring more capital to sustain itself as well, and capital means corporate funding. How ironic that the bazaar has grown to becoming a sprawling, flopping, traffic jammed, flea market, and suddenly key parts of the bazaar are suspiciously looking rather cathedral like (FireFox, the kernel).

I predict that within a few years, Linux will grow to the point that its advocates will quietly abandon the collaborative, libertarian rhetoric that drove it early on, and instead turn more towards a quest for government funding along the lines of National Public Radio. It will continually seek corporate sponsorship, even as it decries their existence.

Re:Cathedral and the Bazaar (3, Insightful)

multisync (218450) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296746)

Alas, as Linux has gotten bigger and more complex, it is also requiring more capital to sustain itself as well, and capital means corporate funding ... I predict that within a few years, Linux will grow to the point that its advocates will quietly abandon the collaborative, libertarian rhetoric that drove it early on


I think it is great that we have the choice to go with a corporate-backed distro such as Red Hat or Novell if we need the support or enterprise features they offer, while still being able to choose a community-backed, "free" in every sense of the word distro like Debian if that is what suits us. The very existence of choice is the success of free and open source software.

I predict that the bazaar will continue to grow and expand and cater to all kinds of needs and tastes in the future. That really is the benefit of FOSS, isn't it? The freedom to choose (and use) the software that suits our needs, rather than being forced to take what the silo masters are pushing.

Re:Cathedral and the Bazaar (2, Interesting)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297248)

I predict that the bazaar will continue to grow and expand and cater to all kinds of needs and tastes in the future. That really is the benefit of FOSS, isn't it? The freedom to choose (and use) the software that suits our needs, rather than being forced to take what the silo masters are pushing.

Well I think its super, actually. I think some people can confuse FOSS with anti-corporatism, and certainly, there's those that would and on both sides of the boring old aisle. But I think really that the whole thing is about freedom, and sometimes freedom does not necessarily mean efficiency and it doesn't necessarily mean free as in beer either. I see no moral quandry with using, supporting, and developing for Linux while at the same time being a money grubbing capitalist, even if it might have a sad impact on the stock price of a certain large software company whose products aggravate me, and nor do I have any fundamental problem with donating to organizations that actually worked on things for Linux.

I kinda think an NPR for Linux would not be a bad thing at all.

The crazy thing is, I would be willing to bet that if Microsoft just GPL'd Windows, they would actually be much, much better off as a company. Yeah, they would be paying for the development of something they are giving away, but all of a sudden they would have a huge new market for their tool chains as Linux is just killing Windows on every computer that is not a PC. It seems like for every deal Microsoft inks with some Windows variant, there's another dozen devices popping up that run Linux. MS just can't keep up with everyone and every niche market, and that's where the bazaar really wins.

Re:Cathedral and the Bazaar (5, Insightful)

Per Abrahamsen (1397) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297140)

How ironic that the bazaar has grown to becoming a sprawling, flopping, traffic jammed, flea market,
You have never been to bazaar, have you?

Re:Cathedral and the Bazaar (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297154)

Huh? What are you on about? Have you even read tCatB? How is the Linux project (Raymond's canonical bazaar) becoming more like the GNU project (Raymond's canonical cathedral)? And what does capital/corporate funding have to do with any of that?

Who is decrying what? That's the part I really don't understand. You seem to have this delusion that Free/Libre software is anti-corporate, which has never been even remotely true. Why would libertarians decry corporate sponsorship? And how on earth did you come to the obviously-misguided conclusion that it's the developers seeking sponsorship, rather than the actual situation, where it's the corporations (and governments) using Linux that are anxious to sustain its development. Most popular free software projects that I know of have more capital than they know what to do with, donated unasked by corporations that rely on the software and aren't sure of any other way to try to ensure that the projects continue.

Zimbra (1)

Iphtashu Fitz (263795) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296154)

One way or the other I hope this gets resolved fairly quickly. We've been evaluating Zimbra where I work (a couple thousand users) and are getting close to a decision to fully adopt it. If MS buys Yahoo we'll likely have to start all over again. The last thing we want to do is invest heavily in a technology that MS will likely squash.

the REAL question ... (1, Redundant)

peter303 (12292) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296156)

Is it called MicroHoo or YaSoft?

Re:the REAL question ... (1)

corychristison (951993) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296362)

Microsoft will remain the same, however Yahoo! products will probably be tagged "Yahoo! a Microsoft company." or "${PRODUCT} by Microsoft"

Re:the REAL question ... (1)

jo42 (227475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296754)

You mean: "${PRODUCT} forked up by Microsoft".

Re:the REAL question ... (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297078)

Just take a look at the current branding

MSN Hotmail, MSN Messenger, etc. I am sure it would be MSN Yahoo! or Microsoft Yahoo!

Re:the REAL question ... (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296542)

MShoo!



(gezundheit)

Re:the REAL question ... (1, Troll)

nick.ian.k (987094) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296804)

Is it called MicroHoo or YaSoft?

It's up to the marketing folks to decide which is more beneficial - do that want to go with a name reminiscent of a pedophilic fetish for the nether regions of a sprightly lass, or a flaccid but sizable penis?

Re:the REAL question ... (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297322)

YaMicroHooSoft

as in ... yeah, micro who's soft

del.icio.us Bookmarks (4, Interesting)

kc2keo (694222) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296272)

Should M$ aquire Yahoo! I sure hope my del.icio.us bookmarks will still be up and running. If so they better still work in FF/WindowsXP or FF/Kubuntu->Linux. Otherwise I'll just use the local FireFox bookmarks again. Backed up my bookmarks just in case... That would be a pretty big downer for my bookmarks to vanish or just stop working across different platforms...

Re:del.icio.us Bookmarks (2, Informative)

TeamSPAM (166583) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296936)

Well, you do have the option to export your bookmarks from del.icio.us. I do it on a regular basis as I have some perl script to work with the data. The bookmarks are yours, just make sure you have a backup if your access to it goes away.

Ack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296300)

This is as much about Microsoft taking on Adobe/flash (with that greygloom thing) as it is about google.

Will the following work as intended?

if (window.Silverlight)
  document.getElementsByTagName("BODY")[0].innerHTML = "<h2>This web site requires you uninstall Microsoft sliverShite</h2>";

Re:Ack (0, Flamebait)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296704)

It probably will, but it'll just prove you're an immature moron. Adobe doesn't need your help, they're keeping up fine on their own.

Re:Ack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22297112)

Thanks for the feedback; I can live with being an immature moron. On second thoughts, however, Perhaps I'll just throw up a DHTML warning dialog with a link to this [boycottnovell.com] or something similar.

Microsoft 2.0 (2, Insightful)

writerjosh (862522) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296328)

Microsoft's only options are to either open up widely to Open Source, or to crush Google with its proprietary products - which will never happen. This only leaves Microsoft one option: encourage/use Open Source or die. They're simply too far in the hole and their products are rapidly becoming obsolete from the POV of the average-Joe user.

Absorbing Yahoo is going to be a mammoth task simply because of internal cultural differences, but trying to fight the tide of Open Source is a losing battle for Microsoft.

Re:Microsoft 2.0 (2, Interesting)

samkass (174571) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296528)

Not that I don't often find open source valuable and useful, but I don't see the trends you're talking about. There are very few open source products that are winning and/or dominant over their proprietary rivals. Google certainly has not gotten much adoption of their enterprise software-- they're still basically an advertising company. If Microsoft would accept that, and accept that Microsoft is NOT an advertising company, they could probably live together reasonably well.

Re:Microsoft 2.0 (3, Informative)

molarmass192 (608071) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297274)

There are very few open source products that are winning and/or dominant over their proprietary rivals.

Depends on your definition of "few". Apache, Eclipse, Linux, FreeBSD (as OS X), and Firefox are all winning (ie. increasing market share) or dominant (Apache / Eclipse) over their proprietary rivals. Other major open source products that have a marked impact on their segments include GCC, Tomcat, CVS, Subversion, Bugzilla, Struts, Hibernate, JBoss, MySQL, SQLite, and VLC.

(Off Topic) New Microsoft story icon submission (5, Insightful)

Robber Baron (112304) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296410)

With the impending departure of Bill Gates, I think a new Microsoft story icon is in order.
For that I don't think we need to go much further than the picture at the top of this story...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/yahoo-bid-bad-news-for-the-net-says-google/2008/02/04/1201973796947.html [smh.com.au]

10 minutes to fork both Zimbra & YUI (3, Interesting)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296514)

From what I can tell skimming the YPL it takes nothing more than setting up a Sourceforge Project to fork each of these products. It was only a few years ago when Push&Pull JavaScript and a few guys competing with Exchange with a Web ASP were nothing but a handfull of nutcases.
Apart from the corporate fuled buzz Yahoo is putting behind YUI and the consited branding of Zimbra there is absolutely nothing for FOSS to lose with this MS-Yahoo deal. On the contrary. We're watching the evil empire blowing ca. 50 billion on a pipe dream about going head-to-head with Google in search. That's fine with me.

Re:10 minutes to fork both Zimbra & YUI (1)

msuarezalvarez (667058) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296718)

10 minutes to fork it and then a lifetime to maintain and develop it.

People always forget about the second part...

msft/yhoo merger may be good for foss (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296550)

I bet google has a company-wide party the day msft acquires yhoo.

Anybody, except for emotionally disturbed msft execs, can see that such a merger would weaken both companies: yhoo would suck even worse, and $20 billion in cash is not pocket change - even for msft.

Can't Zimbra be forked?

Many things would be affected (5, Informative)

kbahey (102895) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296582)

There are many implications for the proposed Microsoft/Yahoo merger [baheyeldin.com] for open source.

Microsoft will not continue to run on an open source platform, like they did with Hotmail.

- PHP: heavily used in Yahoo. Yahoo employs PHP founder and project lead Rasmus Lerdorf.
- Apache: Yahoo uses Apache heavily, and has many patches and modules for it. IIS will replace it.
- MySQL: likewise, they use it heavily. Expect MS-SQL in there.
- FreeBSD and Linux: they use them a lot. Expect those to be turfed for Windows.
- Yahoo YUI javascript library.

Yahoo also hosts open source events (e.g. OSCMS: Open Source Content Management Systems back in March 2007).

All the sponsorship money, paying salaries for open source leads, ...etc. will end.

This is not good news at all.

Re:Many things would be affected (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297028)

I don't see how one company's use (or lack thereof) of a particular OSS application affects the use or development of said application. So Microsoft is going to switch Yahoo's web servers from Apache to IIS. So what? How does that affect how Apache works or evolves for other users? Will this make MySQL simply go away?

Re:Many things would be affected (1)

StarfishOne (756076) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297072)


That's an interesting list, thanks!

I only want to add that a platform like Yahoo is running isn't converted to a Microsoft-based 'solution' in a single day.

This does give the various projects and people some time to consider there options. Someone like Rasmus Lerdorf is not likely to give up his own project, just because the company he's working for is bought.

I bet there are other companies, and not just Google, who might be very interested in having someone with his expertise onboard.. if only just to claim that he's working for your company.

Things will be shaken up, but I tagged this 'wewilladapt' for a reason. :)

What a bad article (5, Informative)

Asmodai (13932) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296600)

This guy quotes how Yahoo takes pride in running FreeBSD...

Running? Yahoo! is one of the largest infrastructure sponsors of the FreeBSD project and last time I checked even had people employed that are committers on the project. So yes, any take over of Yahoo! by Microsoft will no doubt put a huge dent into the FreeBSD Project's infrastructure that cannot easily be replaced in my opinion. So it's not just about running...

Big Favor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22296610)

Yahoo could do the open source community a BIG favor by releasing all of their programs under the AGPL v3, *just* prior to Microsoft buying them out.

If somebody up in Yahoo could do that big favor for me, it would be great. Thanks!

Time to fork Zimbra (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296622)

I have said it over and over again, let's fork Zimbra. Any [Zimbra] code we can lay our hands on should be forked...period...then we can debate what name we should call the product. I suggest "Zimbiya".

Y! hosts the main WWW for FreeBSD.org (1)

JDizzy (85499) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296736)

Not only does Yahoo servers run FreeBSD, Yahoo has core developers on it's pay role, and hosts the main WWW for FreeBSD.

It gets worse (4, Interesting)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296788)

MS currently has 10% of the market share of the search engines. Yahoo has about 1/3. Google has about 50% or more. If MS aquires Yahoo, they will convert it instantly to being live.com and will exclude all Linux systems. My guess is that sites that use apache will slowly see their searches be pushed back further and further in the MS engine. IOW, this is designed not to just take on Google, but to move companies off of Apache as well as punish all those that are not using Windows.

And to think that just recently MS was released from Federal oversight. All of this makes a good case for either FTC to step in or for either IBM or even Sun to purchase Yahoo. Otherwise, those companies will see *nix take a HUGE hit on the net. For IBM it will hurt a bit, but for Sun, it will destroy them.

Re:It gets worse (3, Insightful)

hellsDisciple (889830) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297164)

The dark horse in this whole affair is Sun, not Apple. Sun has a very solid hardware and software business, and now has MySQL under its belt. It pretty much has zero real presence in the provision of online services. Sun essentially would get a shrink-wrapped business which takes care of itself and has very little redundant services. There is little political baggage with such a purchase either. They also get a platform to market their products virally (powered by Sun).

FreeBSD would probably fare OK in that situation, and might even make it as an offically supported OS on Sun hardware. Zimbra is potentially touchy subject as is PHP. Zimbra is possibly capable of being rebranded in a 'one box' solution, compared to the heavyweight Sun Java Messaging stuff.

This is FUD (2, Insightful)

smitth1276 (832902) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296930)

Slashdotters, if anything, are consistent in their selective usage of the "fud" tag and in the groupthink that its usage reflects.

Windows 7 (1)

Jaktar (975138) | more than 6 years ago | (#22296992)

Maybe if they purchase Yahoo they can get those BSD guys to come over and help with Windows 7. Instead of using the Windows kernel, they'll use a microBSD kernel.

Re:Windows 7 (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297138)

Good idea, I was starting to worry that they wouldn't have an excuse to delay the release for another seven years.

Be quiet everyone. Let Microsoft buy Yahoo. (3, Interesting)

Otehake (1089281) | more than 6 years ago | (#22297076)

Most people have been aware of the large Microsoft warchest of billions with which they have been known to squash competition. Hence, one of the best ways to peg back Microsoft a few notches (and become less of a monopoly), is for them to lose some of this warchest. Watch as Microsoft spend the bulk of their warchest on Yahoo, influence Yahoo with their Microsoft leadership and business styles, people run away from such dictatorial practices, and Yahoo diminish in value until there is little value attached to the brand.

Poof! Billions of Microsoft dollars gone up in smoke. So sssssshhhh... don't tell them they are making a very big mistake. Perhaps then they will start competing on valuable software and services.

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