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Are These People Reshaping the Gaming Industry?

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the hard-to-carry-around-their-massive-brains dept.

Games 127

Mark Graham writes "An EU game development site has put up a list of the 25 people they think are 'reshaping the games business'. Although they admit the list is highly subjective, it's a debate-provoking piece, and some of the entries (Portal designer Kim Swift and's founder) are spot on, going for the people that have introduced innovations rather than those that dominate column inches. Miyamoto is absent from the list, for example — although his boss Satoru Iwata is in there. Including Japansese designers like Hironobo Sakaguchi (ranked for his successful prolific outsourced development process) instead of Hideo Kojima is sure to anger a few fanboys. Or at least raise a few eyebrows." Anyone they left off that should obviously be on there?

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What, no Erik Wolpaw? (3, Informative)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334156)

The list is a fraud, without him. Old Man Murray and Sons was the funniest web site ever, and the games he's writing for now have a depth and clarity of writing that honestly eludes most title. Plus, he's pretty damned funny.

Re:What, no Erik Wolpaw? (1)

mrxak (727974) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334852)

Can somebody paste in the full list? It seems the page has been slashdotted already.

Re:What, no Erik Wolpaw? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22336666)

Check the google cache [] .

Re:What, no Erik Wolpaw? (2, Informative)

axel2501 (1083451) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336826)

Don't click, !

Re:What, no Erik Wolpaw? (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334930)

Who? What? Where? Got a link?

Re:What, no Erik Wolpaw? (1)

FreeRadicalX (899322) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335186)

Technically he's in there as well. He's given an honorable mention from within Kim Swift's section.

Can we fix the icon (0, Offtopic)

kriston (7886) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334218)

Do you think that, just maybe, for Slashdot's ten year anniversary we might be able to fix that Atari joystick icon so the button is on the left-hand side like it's supposed to be?

That is all.

Re:Can we fix the icon (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334270)

damned right handers always thinking of themselves!

Re:Can we fix the icon (1)

Smidge204 (605297) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334492)

The button IS on the left hand side. You're just viewing it from the front/right side.


Re:Can we fix the icon (4, Funny)

howdoesth (1132949) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334586)

Umm, the Atari predates 3-D. It wouldn't be possible to view the joystick from that angle.

Re:Can we fix the icon (1)

Smidge204 (605297) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334848)

I submit "Battlezone" and "Merlin's Walls" as counterproof, both available on the Atari 2600.


Re:Can we fix the icon (3, Funny)

Hatta (162192) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334878)

Yes, most people don't remember this, but before the mid 90s, everything in the world was represented by sprites.

Re:Can we fix the icon (0, Troll)

Alaria Phrozen (975601) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334594)

I hope the fat baby in your sig turns out to be left handed. Oh snap!

As the comments from the article pointed out, why isn't Will Wright on this list? With Spore topping over 1000 Wikipedia edits, this game is clearly hot! If you've watched any of the talks Wright gives, it's really impressive how his goal is to teach the player through failure. We all love what we build. Geeze I can't wait for Spore. It's probably going to be like my wait for Black and White... totally worth it! Your creature needs to poo! Notice Peter Molyneux isn't on that list for a reason :-)

I mean come on, the Portal guys? I have to turn off head bobbing and I really doubt this would look great from a 1st person perspective. I'd get so dizzy... []

As Someone Who Has Worked For Almost 20 Years (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334252)

As someone who has worked for almost 20 years making games I only have one reaction to that list,


Kim Swift is Cute! (0, Offtopic)

StCredZero (169093) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334292)

She's quite pretty in the face. Makes me want to cuddle her!

Re:Kim Swift is Cute! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334332)

You see a cute woman and all you want to do is cuddle?

That's not just gay, that's Richard Simmons Gay.

Re:Kim Swift is Cute! (4, Funny)

tedgyz (515156) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334384)

Well, most /.ers would "finish" if they actually cuddled a cute woman.

You see a cute woman and all you want to do is cuddle?

Re:Kim Swift is Cute! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334834)

Yea, they probably wouln't even get the opportunity to investigate her portal. The game, I mean. Yea. The game.

Need More Information (-1, Offtopic)

StCredZero (169093) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334562)

To know if I want to f*ck her, I need to know what she looks like in low-riser pants with her navel showing. (Or less clothing than that.) But in any case, I've had a girlfriend for over a year, so wanting to anything her is kinda academic.

Re:Need More Information (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334722)

Oh, so you want to know if you could f*ck her? That's the last time I'm wearing those pants and you can get academic with your hand for a month!

Re:Need More Information (1)

StCredZero (169093) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335242)

I doubt you look that good!

Re:Need More Information (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334774)

But in any case, I've had a girlfriend for over a year, ...
And now you are bragging about it here.

You, sir, are a true Slashdotter :)

Re:Need More Information (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22335162)

I wanted to mod you +1 informative, but they wouldn't give me mod points.

Re:Need More Information (0, Offtopic)

StCredZero (169093) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335310)

More bragging: she's also petite, hot, and a Stanford graduate. I highly recommend that the single and non-African American portion of Slashdot date black women. Statistics from dating sites indicate that lots of people eliminate them from their preferences. Well, there's lots of smart and hot black women out there.

That, and take up some form of couples dancing. And hygiene. Confidence. Yada yada...

Re:Kim Swift is Cute! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334538)

I wouldn't say she's pretty, more like plain, only a little more frumpy and dirty. I think it's her hair that makes her look unclean and her clothes that make her easily overlooked.

I never truly realised just how desperate the average Slashdot account holder was until now. Disgusting.

Re:Kim Swift is Cute! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22335076)

I wouldn't say she's pretty, more like plain, only a little more frumpy and dirty. I think it's her hair that makes her look unclean and her clothes that make her easily overlooked.
I assume you've only seen the picture from the rockpapershotgun [] interview, which truly does her no favors. The IGN [] article has a better picture, as well as the video on gamasutra [] show her looking better.

missing someone (1)

hellfish006 (1000936) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334366)

and why wasn't fatality on there hahahahah oh man, I keed I keed

wth (1)

majorme (515104) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334398)

wtf? clowns such as Avni Yerli and Mark Rein next to John Carmack and John Riccitiello? what a joke

Re:wth (1)

xero314 (722674) | more than 6 years ago | (#22337240)

And what was the last thing Carmack did that wasn't just a rehash of something he'd done 10+ years ago?

Yeah they left out some folks (4, Interesting)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334406)

To put Sakaguchi in there and not Miyamoto is pretty insane, especially given their "being the creator of FF is enough" quote. Miyamoto isn't out of the picture just yet, especially with Mario Galaxy just having been released. He is also one of the driving forces behind the innovation that Nintendo is working to saturate the market with.

Hopefully the Bioshock guy, Ken Levine is on there. I just read the article but forgot right away. Also they need a guy from Harmonix (Guitar Hero developer) if there isn't one.

Kojima, yeah he's not really big-time on the radar right now. MGS4 is highly anticipated but it's not a reason to slide into the top 25. If you take Kojima then you need to take Itagaki and probably a host of other "fan-fave" developers that push the boundaries in certain genres.

Re:Yeah they left out some folks (4, Insightful)

twistedsymphony (956982) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335200)


Don't get me wrong, I love the games that this guy produces but I'd hardly classify re-releasing the same exact game for over a decade with little more than slightly more refined mechanics and graphics every single time as "industry reshaping". By that same token I don't think Kojima belong anywhere near that list either.

In my opinion an industry shaping player is someone who makes a game, good or bad, popular or not, profitable or not, new ideas or not, and makes other developers in the industry start thinking about their own game design as a result. I can think of several instances this generation where games have come out and their design elements have started trickling into other games in the industry. They might not have been the first to do something, but they were the first to start certain trends in the industry.

I think Portal did that with the portal system and associated gameplay, I think Gears of War did that with it's gameplay style, I think a lot of Nintendo's games have done that with the way their games use the Wii Remote, Test Drive unlimited did it with their online gameplay system, and fight night 3 did it with their analog control mechanism. Older examples are the Guitar Hero series making music a major gameplay element and Fable with it's ideals of a good vs evil evolution.

as I said these aren't the first games to use these concepts but they are the games that sparked trends that have started flowing through the industry whole industry.

Re:Yeah they left out some folks (2, Insightful)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335382)

With regard to Itagaki, you're talking about DOA exclusively. BUT!! he pushed the boundaries like few others with Ninja Gaiden for X-Box. It's still the "game to beat" when it comes to the action genre. Killer graphics for its time, very fluid movement, etc. A very solid package as far as the game goes. But Itagaki went the extra mile, which people took for granted -- he release free Hurricane Packs through XBox Live, adding more content and enhancing the gameplay via improved AI, optional camera control, etc. He addressed all the concerns people had with Ninja Gaiden originally, and as a result Ninja Gaiden Black turned out to be, at the time of its release, the "perfect action game." If not for Ninja Gaiden's successful design, I'm not sure we'd have seen games like God of War, Heavenly Sword, the later DMC games, etc. take the direction they did.

There's a reason Ninja Gaiden 2 for the 360 is so highly anticipated; I also expect it to get very high critical acclaim, just as the first.

Re:Yeah they left out some folks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22335468)

"Gears of War"

Tell us you were joking...

A braindead third person shooter that ripped off Killswitch and had the worst online implementation of any game outside of shareware fps titles in the past few years?

You're a fucking moron. A stupid and pathetic Xbox fanboy.

Get the fuck out of gaming you clown.

Re:Yeah they left out some folks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22335970)

Yeah, it only garnered Game of the Year awards from dozens of different publications. It's funny how you always have some whiny little brat that thinks if he throws a loud enough tantrum and curses enough, his silly opinion might matter to someone.

Feel free to keep on ranting like a little child though, as it's amusing to see someone with their panties so wadded up that they can't even speak straight... over a video game no less.

Oh and for the record, Killswitch fucking sucked. It was short, easy and about as "braindead" of a shooter as you could get. They could've called it Carbon.Copy and it would've sold just as well (i.e. poorly).

Re:Yeah they left out some folks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22336214)

"Yeah, it only garnered Game of the Year awards from dozens of different publications"

Wait, you're saying that Microsoft's managed to get their one big shooter game of the year high review scores and awards???

My god it must be a fantastic game!

1000 dollar 'gift bags' to reviewers.
Countless Microsoft 'marketing arrangements' with online sites and magazines.
Xbots infesting gaming sites like EGM/1Up/Gamespot etc.

And Gears of War managed to win awards???

  What a loser. What a fucking pathetic loser. You're a fucking shitstain on the shoe of the gaming world.

Re:Yeah they left out some folks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22336698)

Haha, did Gears of War steal your (imaginary) girlfriend or something? Kick your puppy maybe?? You're either 12 years old, or so mentally imbalanced that I'm actually dialing the men in white coats to come get you right now.

In the mean time, why don't you chill the fuck out and quit whining like such a god damned baby on the internet. You embarrass yourself.

I know tons of people that love Gears of War, myself included. Also, tons of M$ games tank big time in reviews if you know where to look for reviews and don't deepthroat IGN reviews like it's your job. []

Why don't you go look at the list of awards and sales figures for this game. It's hardly a couple of shitty little mags you've never heard of being paid off by big bad Microsoft with shiny gift bags. The game was a best seller and is still selling at $60 (and selling well) over a year after it's release. It even sold out in Japan, which is absolutely INCREDIBLE for a Microsoft game in that market.

Face it, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You've got some form of butt hurt over Gears and want the world to think you're ignorant opinion matters more then the millions of people who love the game and spoke with their wallets and not their childish ranting and crying otherwise. Maybe when mommy stops buying your games for you, you'll understand what speaking with your money means.

Re:Yeah they left out some folks (1)

Pollardito (781263) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336802)

Also they need a guy from Harmonix (Guitar Hero developer) if there isn't one.

Alex Rigopoulos
An MIT graduate, Rigopoulos and fellow classmate Eran Egozy teamed up in 1995 to mix business with their pleasure (music) and technical skills. The studio's early cult hits Frequency and Amplitude were really just the sound of the orchestra warming up. His studio's next salvo, Guitar Hero was then the opening act, creating for eventual owner Activision (which acquired GH publisher Red Octane) a $1bn franchise. Selling out to MTV at the breakthrough act point was a shrewd move. Milking the new management's music industry contacts and forging a distribution deal with EA has demonstrated a huge stroke of smart independent studio business thinking and an enviable DLC model.

Stardock (4, Interesting)

Marc_Hawke (130338) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334494)

They just released IronClad's Sins of a Solar Empire. If you don't know what this game is, I can't tell you without referencing 3 or 4 other games. It's more than a cross-over, and it's very well done. (As worthy to be on the list as Portal.)

However, if you look at Stardock as a publisher they deserve the spot even more. If you remember the big stink between StarForce and Stardock back when Galactic Civilizations was released. They continue their style of "don't screw the people who actually pay you."

Also, while there are only a few triple-A titles on Stardock Central, their scheme of 'digital download' + 'mail you a box for shipping costs' is much more palatable to me than Valve's Steam service where you are forced to make your own hardcopies from their backup files. It also get nicely out of the way once you've installed the game vs Valve's ubiquitous TSR style. []

(they mainly do desktop customization and other utilities, but they have an extensive selection of budget games and a few large titles.)

Re:Stardock (1)

beheaderaswp (549877) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334666)

I'm in total agreement with you.

Stardock is one of the best companies I've ever done business with. I love their mainline games. No one who is a serious multi account MMO gamer plays without Multiplicity or Synergy (GPL Equivalent).

They just have all these little pieces of things you need, in all the right niches. Sins of a Solar Empire is a Grade "A" title and their licensing scheme/download at any time policy is simply marvelous.

Re:Stardock (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335102)

Also, while there are only a few triple-A titles on Stardock Central, their scheme of 'digital download' + 'mail you a box for shipping costs' is much more palatable to me than Valve's Steam service where you are forced to make your own hardcopies from their backup files. It also get nicely out of the way once you've installed the game vs Valve's ubiquitous TSR style.

Since when did anyone have to do a backup of Steam's apps? You can delete 'em at will, and re-download 'em freely (I've done so on all my PCs - just install Steam client, enter my username/password, and pick the ones ones I needed to download).

Only reason I see to make backups is if you're on a slow link. But making backups of games is completely optional. It's one of the nicer aspects of the Steam service - it records what you have, so you can grab 'em at any time again.

Of course, this is contrasted with the iTunes store, where you can't redownload what you bought... not sure if the Stardock service does same.

Stardock - more thumbs up then I have on my hands! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22335600)

Stardock is one of the greatest independent studios out there. Their products are A+ quality and they continue to support them for years. The interaction with their customers is admirable in this day and age of being flat out ignored and abused by most (here's looking at you EA). They also have an amazingly common sense approach to DRM on their software. Namely, you'll never find any DRM crap on any of their software, exactly as we the paying customers like it.

If ever there was a studio that your average slashdot gamer could get behind, it's these guys.

Galactic Civ 2 ( [] ) is their flagship 4x empire building sandbox game and is at quite a bit better then it's nearest competitor Civilization 4 imho.

I hadn't realized that Sins of the Solar Empire was released yet. It's a very busy time of year and I've had my head in the sand since early January concerning gaming news. Thanks for the tip though, I'll certainly be picking this one up in the very near future.

Portal was cool... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334504)

but it was all started as a college project... There's literally tons of experimental college projects going on right now anywhere in the country with just as much if not more innovation and creativity, but 99% of those will never see final production since game companies don't go in to colleges enough to recruit. They sit and wait for resumes and demoreels instead of being more proactive.

Re:Portal was cool... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22338794)

No, it's because 99.5% of them suck

And that's a good thing. You gotta thoroughly check the search space.

Think evolution - 99.99% of all the species that ever existed are extinct - most offspring die before they reproduce...

The Gaming Industry is Shaping Me (5, Funny)

sjaguar (763407) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334520)

Unfortunately, it isn't for the better. Maybe if I stop playing games, get out of the house, exercise, eat properly.... Just one more quest. I swear, this one's the last one.

Re:The Gaming Industry is Shaping Me (2, Funny)

Freeside1 (1140901) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334950)

The Gaming Industry is Shaping Me... Unfortunately, it isn't for the better. Maybe if I stop playing games, get out of the house, exercise, eat properly....
Same here, but I think 'round' is a pretty good shape.

Re:The Gaming Industry is Shaping Me (1)

johannesg (664142) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336398)

Take up geocaching. It is just like questing, with the added bonuses of real sunlight, possible interaction with other people, and even genuine threats to your life ;-)

Re:The Gaming Industry is Shaping Me (1)

sjaguar (763407) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336630)

Geocaching is a good idea. But, for $15 I can play WoW for a month. I couldn't fill up my gas tank for that amount. And if you say anything about walking/riding a bike I'm going to come over there and slap you. Actually, maybe there's a service to do that. :)

Gary Gygax (1)

stupidflanders (1230894) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334554)

Video Game Industry, or Gaming Industry. How about the people who run Wizards of the Coast. Or the original creators of Dungeons and Dragons.

How about the Monopoly guy? (j/k)

Re:Gary Gygax (1)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334756)

Wizards of the Coast... You mean the people who made so much money on Pokemon that they've been trying to make Magic: the Gathering into its copy ever since?

Re:Gary Gygax (1)

csscmaster3 (837887) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335128)

You do realize that Magic: The Gathering came before Pokemon, right?

Re:Gary Gygax (2, Interesting)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335518)

I think his point was that the current state of M:TG has less in common with its original form than it does with Pokemon. Sad, but true. (Mirage was TBOTE for me)

CCP? (4, Insightful)

beheaderaswp (549877) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334570)

I know this isn't really the aim of the article.... but...

From a purely tech standpoint, the guys over at CCP (Eve Online) should be noted for the massive achievement of their database cluster. 45000 people playing in the same game universe, backed by Microsoft SQL Server (?!?!?), massive RAMSAN capacity, and all that custom Python code seems a very notable achievement. Yes I said Python! Stackless to be precise.

From where I stand, it's that kind of cluster which will run the MMO's of tomorrow.

Not everything is graphics and market share.

Re:CCP? (1, Informative)

brkello (642429) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335258)

Meh, if you actually played the game you would know it can't handle 45k people well at all. The game is extremely simple from a client/server perspective...toggle shield on off, toggle guns on off...that's about it. The UI is miserable. If Eve is the model for the MMO of tomorrow...I won't be playing. WoW doesn't have the same capacity, but it is more complex and has less issues. I think I'd go for a model that could have 10 millions subscribers compared to one that can't even come close to handling 100k.

Re:CCP? (4, Informative)

minginqunt (225413) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335500)

Utter drivel.

In almost every way, it's one of the most sophisticated MMOs available, and its technical achievements both front and back end are to be applauded.

Now, if you didn't like it, that's fine. But I don't see why you need to badmouth it though, especially with claims that are demonstrably untrue.

Re:CCP? (1)

jeffbax (905041) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335734)

Unless you are playing the Mac or Linux version - where the game is pretty much unplayable garbage. I guess serverside accomplishments are one thing but I think developers like Blizzard and the guys behind Vendetta Online who are doing big multiplatform, native releases are much better than what CCP does with this TransGaming bullshit. Now if only Blizzard would hop on the Linux train considering the game runs in OpenGL already.

Re:CCP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22335928)

But I don't see why you need to badmouth it though, especially with claims that are demonstrably untrue.

Like what, for example?

Re:CCP? (2, Interesting)

DrVomact (726065) | more than 6 years ago | (#22338026)

Now, if you didn't like it, that's fine. But I don't see why you need to badmouth it though, especially with claims that are demonstrably untrue.

Then why don't you demonstrate that his claims are untrue? He argued that Eve is "is extremely simple from a client/server perspective". And in the sense in which he intended this assertion, he's right. Eve's graphics consist of a background of stars (little tiny points of light), with an improbable amount of multicolored gases percolating about to differentiate one solar system from another. There are no animated avatars in eve—the closest thing you get to an avator is the little portrait that pops up when you click on someone's space ship), nothing much of anything that moves or changes except more little points that represent other player's spaceships (unless you're up close—then you do actually see the spaceship, but it looks just like all the other ships of its type)...and huge, spectacular explosions when you blow up some poor sucker who was trying to haul home the minerals he'd just spent hours mining. OK, the explosions are cool. Except, of course, if you're the poor sod getting blown up.

You've got to admit that 50K people logged into a text-based MMO wouldn't be as impressive as even 10K people logged into something like EQ or WoW, so numbers alone don't tell the story. Now, Eve is in some ways a very complex game. It has an admirably sophisticated economy, and a large number or craftable and tradeable items. Tracking those items and keeping up with the transactions may very well be as difficult—or, for all I know more difficult—than running a "traditional" MMO fantasy game with avatars that run around in a three-dimensional landscape, interacting and engaging each other and various MOBs in battle. However, I'd like to see some argument for this, some facts even.

Let me emphasize that I'm not saying that EVE doesn't deserve plaudits for its achievements, but if I'm supposed to believe that running this game with 45K users is per se a triumph of technical wizardry, then I'd like to know why.

And, unless things have changed radically in the 3 months since I quit playing it, there's lots of lag in Eve. Buying or selling stuff is a real chore, as you have to click on each item, then wait for the transaction to be executed...and that wait can be awfully long (10-15 seconds), even if you're not in Jita. And don't even get me started on the GUI. Like, I'm not going to whine about the fact that a game in which financial transactions are crucial forces you to use a tiny font (at 1600 x 1200) in which the characters for zero, eight, and B are indistinguishable...

Aside from merely technical issue, I have a lot of respect for the designers of Eve. It is a conceptually sophisticated game, and I would have continued to play it despite all its defects, were it not for the fact that Eve is inescapably a PvP game, and I just don't like PvP. That I played the game for two years, getting ganked by griefers at least once a week, is a testimonial to just how good the game is. If you like PvP, you'll probably like Eve.

Re:CCP? (1)

Friedrich Psitalon (777927) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335940)

Uh, with all due respect, I'm calling "troll." You've clearly never played the game yourself if you think the shields can be toggled on and off.

All but one section of the UI can be moved anywhere on the screen, 95% of the keyboard shortcuts can be remapped (and many have been added/made available.) You can modify the amount of information displayed on the screen from Arcade-Simplistic all the way up to "Makes a Simulator Junkie's Eyes Bleed." The amount of modules there to be turned on and off can be as many as 22, and they all have four states (online, offline, active, overload) to choose from as well. You can either pull things from a list on one side which can be sorted one of a dozen ways (Alphabetical, by distance, by speed, by size, by corporation, by alliance, by velocity relative to your own speed and direction - it's nuts) or you can simply pluck the one you want out of the swarm of things flickering in and out of the actual game screen.

The complexity of EVE is staggering and could have a 12 volume desk reference set written for it, if one so desired. WoW's strategy guide barely broke 150 pages, and most of that was pretty pictures.

Fanboy, go home. Or better yet - play EVE and then give an informed opinion. The lag could be better. The UI, however, is a long, long way from simple.

Re:CCP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22336406)

Just because you can move a crappy UI around doesn't make it a good UI. Face it, the UI is an eye sore. Almost everyone I know that plays/have played agrees, even the folks that love the game. They love the game despite the UI, not because of it. The gameplay is also a lot more simple then you make it out to be as despite the attempts to make offline/online modules sound really important. Also, the overload features is quite possibly the lamest addition to the game in years.

The problem with EVE and most of the EVE fanboys is that they mistake complexity for entertaining. Sure EVE is the most complex MMO ever made and handles that level of complexity well with the huge amount of raw data available. That said, the game is boring as hell (personal opinion) and all that complexity and data is irrelevant when you're in a lag fest slideshow because more then 100 people happen to be in the same sector. If any other MMO had such a huge, embarrassingly empty world, they could support tens of thousands of people on a server too. CCP banks on the fact that most of their players are spread out over the whole frigging universe. Their "great net code" is a myth easily exposed by taking a shopping trip to Jita, running some missions in that general area, or trying to partake in any fleet battle with more then 20 on each side for a few examples.

I commend CCP for what they've done though. It's not a bad game by any means. I personally don't enjoy it and found watching paint dry to be equally entertaining. I get sick of the rabid fanboys hollering about how EvE is the second coming of MMO-Jesus though. It's only saving grace is that it has exactly 0 competition as a major sci-fi space based MMO.

Before you rail on some guy for being a fanboy, which didn't even make sense in the context you used it, you should make sure you're not coming off as an equally huge fanboy.

Re:CCP? (1)

Friedrich Psitalon (777927) | more than 6 years ago | (#22337080)

Your first paragraph is the only one with any relevance to a discussion of UI - and since the only thing you say in it is "Moving it around doesn't make it great" and then continue with your broad, general strokes, I'll counter with:

No, that's one of the dozen things about the UI that work quite well.

The rest of your rant - and by the way, offline modules and overheating modules both have a rather pronounced effect, if you have any savvy in using them - has little do with a discussion of the UI. If you want to rant about net code, that's a whole different topic.

No, the UI is not "pretty." "Pretty" also doesn't equate to good. I can change the nature of information delivery, the amount of it, the location of it, the style of it, and how I manipulate, react to, and organize that information with a few simple clicks. I can custom-design a dozen information filters and pull them all up in two clicks. I'm not interested in a "pretty" UI - I'm interested in a functional one. If I wanted a pretty UI that didn't do anything useful, I've got plenty of other choices. The EVE UI is designed to give out information, and it does that very well.

Re:CCP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22337996)

More then the UI was being discussed here, hence my reply contained more then just UI discussions.

Also, I see no need to label my post as a rant simply because it contradicts your OPINION of the game. I labeled very clearly where I was stating bias personal opinion and not fact. Also, offline/online is nowhere near an important aspect of the game, despite your claims (for a second time) otherwise. A VERY few number of highly specialized ship setups might use it to squeeze an extra module on, but you're probably looking at something like 5% of players using it on a combat ship, especially with the changes to offlining systems in mid flight.

There's a middle ground between form and function and Eve is nowhere close to that middle ground. If you had bothered to read more then 2 sentences before going off, you would see I paid the UI it's due for the ability to display raw information. It still looks like ass though. This is a video game to entertain. I'm not trying to stare at a spreadsheet looking UI in my video games, no matter how useful. Anyways, I'm not sure why you chose to "rant" about my supposed "rant". You contributed zero to further this thread other then to try and disqualify my statements as some blanket rant and then repeat what everyone, myself included, have already said.

Good way to farm mod points I guess...

How could you forget Smash Bros creator Masahiro (1)

winmine (934311) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334574)


What A Sad Example Of Game Journalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334596)

There are amazing things going on in game development.

However, this 'list' is nothing more than yet another tiresome example of fanboyism made by some little punks no better than some gradeschool kids arguing over which console is the best or which game is the best.

Re:What A Sad Example Of Game Journalism (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334754)

Yeah, this is turning into Digg with the lists, most of which are completely nonsense, biased, or just plain boring.

Hmm (2, Informative)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334660)

Hironobo Sakaguchi (ranked for his successful prolific outsourced development process)

So maybe that is why FFIV on the GBA was one of the buggiest console games I have ever played, and the buggiest Square game by far. It crashed on me at least once, battle timing was totally off(some characters would get two or more turns before another would even get one), and there were random pauses/slowdowns in battle. Come on, if you are going to outsource a port(a port! They weren't even creating original code) at least have the decency to do some testing before releasing it.....

Re:Hmm (1)

EdFear (694930) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334702)

Sakaguchi didn't have anything to do with the GBA port - he left Square Enix years ago.

Re:Hmm (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335542)

Unfortunately, Blue Dragon shares a lot of the problems GP mentioned FF IV Advance having, so he's not exactly off the hook from that respect.

That said: 4 days until Lost Odyssey! Tic-tic-tic...

Re:Hmm (1)

edwdig (47888) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336210)

Come on, if you are going to outsource a port(a port! They weren't even creating original code) at least have the decency to do some testing before releasing it.....

Final Fantasy IV originally came out on the SNES. The SNES was almost exclusively programmed in assembly, so any port of it is essentially a rewrite.

Your mom ... (1, Funny)

ThirdPrize (938147) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334802)

I hear she is in the "game" business ...

Ken Levine (1)

Yujenisis (190049) | more than 6 years ago | (#22334830)

The visionary who brought us Bioshock and System Shock 2 among others. The very fact he isn't mentioned seriously undermines the legitimacy of this list in my view.

Bioshock was and continues to be huge for gamers and its effects on the industry are still being felt and will be from years to come.

Re:Ken Levine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334918)

Bioshock is a good game don't get me wrong.

Bioshock, however, is a game that takes what has been done, polishes it to a shine, then sells it.

There is nothing in Bioshock that is revolutionary or could be classified as 'reshaping' the industry. It just does what has been done before very well.

People need to pay attention to the aim of the list. It's not favorite developers or the best ones out there. It's the ones doing unique and new things to push the industry.

Re:Ken Levine (1)

tmalone (534172) | more than 6 years ago | (#22337866)

I guess you could look at it like this: how sad is the gaming industry when people consider it revolutionary if somebody does something well? There are so many games out there that just tack the same plot (a [blank] force is attacking [homeworld], you are the only thing standing in their way. The twist is, you're a badass!) onto a new engine that it's no wonder that we consider a competently thought out game like Bioshock to be revolutionary. Isn't it revolutionary to use video games to tell a compelling story or create a compelling world instead of just letting young adult males act out their aggressive fantasies? I liked Doom and Quake as much as everybody else but are any of the thousands of games that came out and rehashed the same concept revolutionary? Can they be said to be "shaping" the industry? I mean, the industry was already in that "shape", which just happens to be the shape of a gib. Granted, Bioshock follows along the path set forth by System Shock, but Bioshock was a success, so it is now shaping the industry.

I guess I would compare it to the shift in film making that occured once they got the technique down enough to stop making films of trains moving along a track or a woman doing a flip of some kind, and started to make films that told stories and made audiences feel things. We've figured out how to simulate hair now and make bodies fly against a wall in a very convincing manner, so now we should start to make games that are more than just simulations. Simluations paved the way though, so we should still respect that. The model advanced by id with the game engines they sold to other companies helped to get the ball rolling. No longer do developers have to write everything from scratch, so they can concentrate on content. Content doesn't have to be that thing you add on to the engine you just created so that people will buy your pretty algorithms. Frankly, the same goes for other styles of gaming as well, not just first person shooters.

How many RPGs are the same damn plot on a new graphics engine or with a new combat/skills system? Oh my God! I can be a ninja in this installment of Final Fantasy? For reals? My angsty ninja is gonna look so cool when he discovers that the bad guy is really his father/best friend/former ally. I also have this problem with cute "innovative" games that are genuinely revolutionary in their game mechanics, but their content gets old. Mario Galaxy is fun, but I don't exactly feel compelled to finish it. The racing thing was cool as was the gravity changing world, but I'm getting tired of experimentation. I feel the same way when I'm reading a book and the author has clearly decided that he or she cares more about sentence structure than the story or characters.

I guess I'm feeling grumpy and old today. :)

Re:Ken Levine (1)

krakelohm (830589) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335104)

Being that I have never played Bioshock/System Shock 2(FPS make me yak), can you tell me what makes them so good? So far all I have picked up about them is that they are FPS with a good story. Thanks.

Re:Ken Levine (3, Insightful)

Sparks23 (412116) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336392)

I think what has always made Levine's games so compelling is the overall presentation and atmosphere. The System Shock games were hardly the first FPS games with RPG elements, so they were not really genre-defining in that way.

But they manage atmosphere better than almost anything. So many FPS are just 'throw a horde of monsters/enemy-soldiers/robots/aliens at you!' The Shock games have rarely been about massive combat, but instead about atmosphere and tension. You may wander for a while without encountering anything, but hearing noises nearby... screams... and then you might stumble into a bunch of enemies fighting among themselves, only to have them turn on you.

In System Shock, you would step into the little elevators to get between floors, and would sometimes find yourself letting out a breath you hadn't realized you were holding. (And the contrast between the horrors outside and the soft, soothing muzak of the elevator was almost like emotional whiplash at times.)

In Bioshock, there's a beautiful (but overgrown) garden area, for instance. But you cannot really just relax and enjoy the view; there's the sound of something moving through the bushes, and shadows on the wall seem to sometimes contain a figure seen only briefly, as if out of the corner of your eye. You hear a splicer murmuring threats... but you aren't certain where they are. They're not right there, but they're clearly nearby. Watching. Waiting. Taunting...

So while System Shock and Bioshock were not really pushing the envelope in terms of technology, fans of the series tend to feel that they push the envelope in terms of pacing, storytelling, and drawing you into the game.

Re:Ken Levine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22338808)

well hmm but okay, Ken's games are great but build on the original System Shock, which was completed before Ken came on the scene.

Bioshock is great, but not revolutionary. (1)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336654)

Bioshock is a great game, but there's nothing really that new in there gameplay wise, the setting's pretty original but that's about it.

I mean, what's new about it? The plasmids are fun, but no better than previous games that have allowed spell casting, like the Elder Scrolls series (where you can actually make your own). The tonics are interesting, but compared to the delicate balances and quirks of S.T.A,L.K.E.R.'s artefacts which have down sides and need to be balanced between tasks, rather than just having different slots for different types and the decision pretty much made for you. The combat wasn't particularly interesting, it's more in the old school with large amounts of health on both sides, close range and no cover, pretty much just aiming practice really, the AI is pretty dumb too. Combat these days tends to be moving towards the more tactical, cover driven battles of F.E.A.R. Gears of War, S.T.A,L.K.E.R. or Call of Duty which I find more exciting and mentally involved, Bioshock reminds me of Quake (not bad, just pretty retro). Hacking royally blows of course, some dumb pipes game which is smashing fun for the first 10 times, but as I'm as compulsive hacker who cannot stop, it gets irritating. If you want fun hacking, check out the latest Ratchet and Clank game, shorting circuits with a rolling ball. U-Invent and Power to the People are the stupidest excuses for customisation I've ever seen, either make regular items out of crap you can pick up or add two improvements to the weapons that you have to carry. That's right, in the days where every game seems to let the players pick which weapons to carry, 2 guns in halo, 2 rifles and 1 pistol in GoW, 3 guns in fear, space/weight based in Deus Ex, stalker or Elder scrolls. Bioshock you have 1 of each weapon and an independent max ammo for each. People say it has roleplaying elements but it has no inventory! The only thing you can change is your plasmids, but they all just use the same EVE source so you only end up using 2 or 3 of them or so anyway since they never run out of ammo, I just used telekinesis for everything because flying corpses make new corpses.

The story also, I did like it because it was easy enough to follow and since I'm often too lazy to pay attention it helped me, but it was obvious that it was the sort of story that was going to have a "twist" and there was only really one possible since near the beginning, it didn't really take me by surprise. Oh and what's the whole thing about morality in it? You kill the girl and take all the adam or you save the girl, get half the adam then get most of the rest in a teddy bear along with some unique plasmids and some ammo. Basically the only difference is whether you think it is funny to kill the girl or not, there's no complex moral reasoning in it, just H or L. I really liked the backstory though, the whole story of Ryan founding a colony away from the government in the name of freedom then ending up oppressing them even worse. It appeals to me as an authoritarian in that if a democratic government doesn't have the power to control the people, then other people will instead.

Anyway, despite me discussing its failings, I did really like the game, I liked the atmosphere, I liked the world they created, I liked the graphics and I particularly thought that the research camera was a very great addition. I have just played many cutting edge, genre redefining games in my time and I really don't see Bioshock's place in there.

Re:Bioshock is great, but not revolutionary. (1)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336728)

To be fair, though, a game doesn't have to be "revolutionary" to shape the game industry. It just has to be well-received enough that it gets other developers and publishers thinking. Halo wasn't revolutionary in terms of game design, but it certainly helped shape the game industry tremendously by giving the Xbox a foothold.

Let's Have Some Fun With This List (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334908)

Kim Swift - A gimmicky little game that really only shows just how dead the pc gaming market is outside of MMORPGs. An irrelevant nobody.

Sakaguchi - Sold out to Microsoft in an effort to have his revenge against his old company Square. Two very expensive flops is all he has to show for his effort. Next.

Carmack - A relic of the pc fps glory days. The only thing notable he has done in the past few years is publicly cry about not being able to handle modern console graphics hardware. Go play with your rockets John, the industry left you behind years ago.

Chudley - She handled Bizarre selling out to Activision. Uh ok...

Burgess-Quémard - She works at Ubisoft. Uh ok...

Riccitiello - EA is fading as the dominant US game company after having grown as large as possible. I guess Riccitiello should be on the list, but not in a good way...

Dan Connors - Why is he on the list? Because one or more Sam and Max fans made the list.

Ray Muzyka - Small development house becomes mid-size dev house, sells out to big publisher. What a new development for the games biz!

Robert Kotick - Activision makes games and lots of money doing so. Robert works there. Ok.

Torsten Reil - A middleware developer. Various games use his company's middleware. Ok.

Bonus points! What console are the guys who made this silly list fans of?

Re:Let's Have Some Fun With This List (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22335332)

Not really surprising. These idiotic top X lists are invariably nothing more than some fanboy or fanboys effectively working backwards from their favorite games on their favorite platform and filling out their list accordingly.

The gaming world would be a better place if game journalism just went away. No information whatsoever would be much better than having idiots like the ones who made this list spouting their crap constantly.

Re:Let's Have Some Fun With This List (1)

EdFear (694930) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335486)

With the very greatest of respect...

The gaming world would be a better place if game journalism just went away. No information whatsoever would be much better than having idiots like the ones who made this list spouting their crap constantly.
It'd be far, far too easy for me to simply replace 'game journalism' with 'blog commenters' and throw that right back at you - but it'd be lazy stereotyping with very little basis in fact. Wait, that I can throw back at you. ;)

Re:Let's Have Some Fun With This List (1)

Friedrich Psitalon (777927) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336362)

There needs to be a new category of upmod for priceless comments like that one. /me tries to slap +1 "Pwnage" beside Edfear's remark.

Re:Let's Have Some Fun With This List (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22336586)

You're a talentless nobody leaching off the hard work of others Ed. You have no skills other than running your mouth off about crap you have no clue about.

Re:Let's Have Some Fun With This List (1)

EdFear (694930) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335396)

I'm not going to sit here and argue our reasons with you - like we said, the list is subjective and there was never any way we were going to please everyone, so we threw that out right at the start. One thing I *will* say is that we're not 'fans' of any particular console or developer. And, per your Sam and Max comment, I think it's safe to say that not one of us has bought any of the episodes. Our mentioning of them was for finally getting the episodic model to work properly - much like we mention Sakaguchi because his utilisation of the Hollywood model, which might be how game production goes, is peerless. Anyway. Already written too much ;)

What? No Yahtzee? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22334986)

Certainly changing the face of game reviews, I'd say.

first time i dont need to RTFA (1)

berwiki (989827) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335030)

Everyone on /. knows this list is simply going to be John D. Carmack 25 times in a row.

No, its the board rooms (1)

phkhd (172530) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335428)

Ever notice how its getting increasingly harder to get a console game where you can do multiplayer on the same box? My bet is its driven by the profits from the on-line fees earned by forcing you to play on-line for multiplayer. Noticed how thinings are becomming more MMO oriented? Thank the income streams generated by WOW for that.

Re:No, its the board rooms (1)

FiloEleven (602040) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336632)

Ever notice how its getting increasingly harder to get a console game where you can do multiplayer on the same box?
No, I haven't. Then again, I have a Wii =)

This list is fine, but let's do another list: (1)

Jennifer York (1021509) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335564)

What about non-game studio execs? I'd rather see a list of game reviewers and how they shape the future. ZeroPunctuation, Penny Arcade, PvP, etc. You know, the real gamers with a voice the is heard by millions of gamers. And of course they are not tied to a magazine where all editorials are subject to review based on the ammount of paid advertising...

Natural selection (1)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335810)

i think natural selection ( a hl1 mod) was ahead of its time when i played it 5 years ago.
it an FPS with RTS and RPG thrown in, unfortunatly there were problems when it came down to players but the game itself was pretty good.

whats the state of the game now?
are there any similar games ( actual games not just mods)?
is looking at the games a bit late? doesn't real innovation come from mods?

How about BIll Roper? (1)

Eirenarch (1099517) | more than 6 years ago | (#22335976)

I vote for Bill Roper. He is not important since he left Blizzard though.

What about Will Wright? (1)

Samster33 (1197779) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336768)

How could they overlook the original designer of SimCity, The Sims and soon to be Spore?

Fumito Ueda (1)

deathtopaulw (1032050) | more than 6 years ago | (#22336870)

these fucking idiots
you cannot have a list like this and not include Fumito Ueda (TeamICO)
he has literally pioneered the use of emotions, other than fear and anger, as the driving force to get you to play the game. not to mention being a graphic and level design genius

this list is full of idiots maintaining the status quo
"omg guy who invented final fantasy! omg guy from EA!"

jesus christ

Old is the new new (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 6 years ago | (#22337182)

The people who make the gaming industry evolve are the ones who do something new, don't get me wrong, not original, new. Might sound obvious, it even might be a truism, but we must keep this in mind, for so few make anything new, from home-brew abstract puzzle hobbyist creators to big game studio designers.

Little is truly new, people like to explore the already explored.

I'm confused about chronology (1)

Dan Posluns (794424) | more than 6 years ago | (#22337278)

The article says it was published just two days ago... But the article on Graham Hopper (second from the bottom) talks about the creation of Pirates of the Caribbean games as some distant pie-in-the-sky opportunity he is investigating... when there have already been at least 19 games on various platforms off of that franchise (as a quick searching of reveals). It's particularly curious to me because I worked on one of those games... but that paragraph sounds like it was written before Dead Man's Chest. Dan.

Re:I'm confused about chronology (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22337948)

They mean a game *like* POTC: "a title that can perhaps beget a variety of or cross-media activity around it", much in the way POTC did moving from ride -> movie -> game, etc. They want to make a game that can be an uber-brand, like High School Musical, as another example.

Suda51 (Goichi Suda) (1)

RyoShin (610051) | more than 6 years ago | (#22337632)

While his games have never been huge hits or ground breaking, they almost always offer something unique and entertaining. His best known works are probably Killer7 and, much more recently, No More Heroes. He's trying new things and ideas, and perhaps he shouldn't make it to the top 25, but I think he should get at least honorable mention.

If anyone's not tried No More Heroes and enjoys over-the-top fighting games, I highly recommend it. The overworld (think GTA) really needs a lot of work, but the actual fighting more than makes up for it. Pretty crazy plotline and characters, too. (Each of the ten bosses you fight would be a major villain in their own right for any other game.)

Jeep Barnett created Portal... not Kim Swift (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22337656)

Honestly, give credit where credit is due. Everyone knows that Kim Swift did jack diddly on the project and was lucky that Valve hired the entire Narbacular Drop team. Last year at GDC when asked what she did on the project, she stuttered and said something about coding a state machine and creating textures.

"The way Swift managed Portal into become a smart melding of both an excellent gameplay mechanic and great writing..." Give me a break.

another pick, more about "gaming" than "industry" (1)

ghyd (981064) | more than 6 years ago | (#22338060)

"Shaping gaming industry" here is sometime but not necessarily related to "creating great games". Otherwise the project involving Tim Cain and other great developers would have been a nice addition to the list.

Benoit Sokal (1)

FlyByPC (841016) | more than 6 years ago | (#22338300)

Amerzone, Syberia, Syberia II, Paradise... the guy is an artistic genius. These aren't games, they're slices of (very interesting) worlds.
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