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TechNet Users Revolt Over Vista SP1 Unavailability

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the core-available-but-not-to-you dept.

Windows 203

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "There's a growing revolt among Microsoft TechNet & MSDN subscribers who are frustrated that they can't yet get Vista SP1 and test their software on it. This can't be good news for anyone hoping that SP1 will have better compatibility. While SP1 has been released to manufacturing, and pirate copies are easy to find, Microsoft is withholding it from subscribers until early March. According to the article, some frustrated users are upset enough that they plan to abandon TechNet entirely and turn to piracy." Update: 02/12 17:37 GMT by KD : Sean0michael writes, "Aaccording to the Technet blog, they have pushed up the date to before the end of February, though no exact date is mentioned."

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203 comments

I'm Shocked! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386378)

How is Microsoft abusing its users still news?

Where's My Crapware? (0, Troll)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386502)

I want the alternate suckage in SP1!

Really, kids. They haven't fixed the multimedia borkage, tcp connections still get maxed at an absurd level, and loading Outlook on a base DWM + Sidebar image is somewhere north of 400 Mb.

If you got Vista for free, you paid too much.

Re:Where's My Crapware? (2, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386972)

The disk i/o is teh worst part of Vista more than anything.

Not only is free being a rip off but customers are actually paying more to upgrade to XP. I would do so if I could get drivers for my notebook.

It works and I suppose thats the most important thing. The new GUI can also be fustrating too until a month or so to get used to it.

The new sp1 caused numerous blue screens on my notebook when I tried a rc so I think I will skip this sp out and wait for sp1.1. :-)

Re:Where's My Crapware? (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387090)

Click start.

wait.

Let the menu populate.

5 seconds later, get a scroll bar, so you can mouse down to your item, offscreen.

Gee! I'm glad this search thing boosts my efficiency!

Windows users are revolting? Seems unlikely. (4, Insightful)

Gary W. Longsine (124661) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388128)

How are they revolting? Are they heading over to the Apple Store [apple.com] and buying MacBooks? If they really wanted to revolt, they would install Linux or FreeBSD or buy a Macintosh and never look back. TechNet users are particularly hard core Windows lovers, masochistic, really. I bet they tough this one out. They are not revolting. They are reveling in their delicious pain.

Re:Windows users are revolting? Seems unlikely. (5, Funny)

Divebus (860563) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388262)

Most Windows uses I know are quite revolting, actually. (someone had to say it, if it hasn't already)

PROTIP (5, Interesting)

jrronimo (978486) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386380)

I don't know if I'm just special or not, but if you go to Connect(.microsoft.com) and download the enabler for Service Pack 1 Refresh 2 and, well, enable it, you can get Windows Vista Service Pack 1 RTM. Microsoft has confirmed (I am pretty sure) that Refresh 2 == RTM: http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/02/07/microsoft-confirms-vista-sp1-rc-refresh-2-rcr2-is-rtm-release/ [mydigitallife.info].

I'm not even a technet subscriber or anything... just a beta tester. :)

Re:PROTIP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386522)

Exactly. And anyone who develops software for Windows and wants to make sure they are compatible is in the beta. If they aren't, then they need to understand that their product will suffer if it is found to be incompatible AFTER a service pack goes production.

Another Slashdot "Tempest in Teapot" MS-FUD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386540)

Ah yes, there is another storm brewing in Slashdot's anti-MS FUD teapot. This time... the "legions" of people who use Vista (which Slashdot is quick to point out is nobody, since Vista is a huge flop which zero people use) are "desperate" for this service pack they "can't get"... despite it being on MS's download page.

But hey, Slashdot was never one to let something as petty as fact get in the way of their zealous MS hatred.

Re:Another Slashdot "Tempest in Teapot" MS-FUD (5, Interesting)

Adambomb (118938) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386698)

This definitely seems like molehill territory if SP1R2 is the same as the SP1 RTM. The developers themselves do seem to have one legitimate greivance amongst the whole thing: If they received the details at exactly the same time as the populace, what value does their TechNet or MSDN subscriptions truely have in the long run?

I'm not saying NONE i'm just saying less than they expected.

Not that big a deal though, cancel your technet or msdn if this really sets your face on fire.

Not just Microsoft (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386870)

This is a great example of a trend that has been building steam for several years now. The fact that pirate networks are more often than not, the easiest way to get what you need, whether you are a paying customer or not. Who cares if its a minor update. The fact is, the distribution chains of the data thieves, the pirates, the "underground", are more complete than legitimate commercial enterprises. Pirate networks can provide the product you want, when the company you PAY cannot.

Re:Not just Microsoft (2, Insightful)

SpzToid (869795) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387656)

The fact that pirate networks are more often than not, the easiest way to get what you need, whether you are a paying customer or not.

Easy, sure. But secure?

Well um, I suppose we could run around and find checksums to compare or something, in order to ascertain nothing has been pre-hacked for us in-advance. (Or run linux on the desktop, of course)

Re:Another Slashdot "Tempest in Teapot" MS-FUD (4, Insightful)

SirKron (112214) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387376)

Those of us who have TechNet Plus subscriptions also get lots of licenses (i.e. install keys) to run the various Microsoft products, not just download the software. Also, I have been running SP1 RTM since last week, and I downloaded it from Windows Update. Those who participate in the Betas (the connect site) get the ability to test SP1 RTM early. If you want that ability, then participate in the Betas.

Even more puzzling... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386566)

That just makes this even more puzzling. Why not give them official access if they already have it unofficially? Because the story quotes them as saying it won't be available until next month.

Also, even though Microsoft has 'confirmed' that, has it been independently confirmed? I didn't see any mention of that fact in reports like this one [apcmag.com].

Just wondering, because as you may have guessed, I submitted this and I don't believe in Imaginary Property.

Re:PROTIP (2, Informative)

auzy (680819) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387026)

Microsoft has not confirmed I think. Mary Jo Foley Confirmed, and shes barely creditable..

If you don't believe me, check her write up on WWDC. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=505 [zdnet.com] , in which case, she obviously never researched the features properly, and obviously didn't bother to research them, even while doing a follow-up on it, because the forums were full..

I think she just spoke to some guy at Microsoft, they said "yeah, its pretty much the same", and she goes "yeah, they are the same, they just changed the version".

What you will notice, is that nowhere, has she actually done anything to research that (ie, no comparison shots of changed files). Don't trust any info on SP1 at the moment. All the leaks I've seen have been proven fake thus far (ie, modified refresh 2's where it was hexed, but they forgot to change all the versions, or just refresh 2). I've even heard some idiots who base whats real or not on the filename.

Either way, until someone official from microsoft on MSDN says it, I'm not going to bother even trying SP1, otherwise, you may be stuck with a beta which wont upgrade to SP2, and I suggest everyone else do the same. Its only 2 or 3 weeks now until we know for sure

Re:PROTIP (2, Informative)

TheNetAvenger (624455) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387142)

Connect(.microsoft.com) and download the enabler for Service Pack 1 Refresh 2 and

Actually connect has the RTM downloads for SP1, the WU enabler and even the ISOs and distribution packages.

So whether anything changed from Refresh 2 doesn't matter, as the RTM is available.

Re:PROTIP (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387234)

I've switched my subscription from MSDN to MSBT and it works just fine.

Re:PROTIP (1)

negated (981743) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387646)

Actually, you can just go to connect.microsoft.com and DL an ISO image of the DVD that contains the full version of SP1 for x86 and x64 variants of Vista, as well as the executables themselves without going through and getting any enabling RC stuff...of course, you need access to connect as well.

Also, FYI, I've installed it on my x64 machine and now I cannot see my Ubuntu laptop nor the Samba share on it. I checked my policy and saw that NTLM access and been set back to the default, so I set it again so Samba 3.0 could be seen...but no dice! Just a warning...

-S

Bow to the closed source distrobution model! (0, Troll)

Romancer (19668) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386392)

Bow!

Then maybe we'll give it to the people that make out product actually worth something.

If windows didn't run all the "windows compatable" software where do you think they'd be? And here they are stiffing the very people who are trying to make the user experience better.

Re:Bow to the closed source distrobution model! (5, Funny)

jlarocco (851450) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386510)

Why bother?

Didn't you read the summary? Nobody's talking about switching to a better OS. They're switching to pirated Windows. That means they'll still be writing software that draws people to Windows, and they'll be opening themselves up to lawsuits.

It's sheer genius on Microsoft's part. They save money by not packaging the SP with MSDN, they have developers wooing users to their OS, and they get to sue the developers for way more than a regular license fee or MSDN price.

Re:Bow to the closed source distrobution model! (1)

Cal Paterson (881180) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386878)

It's sheer genius on Microsoft's part. They save money by not packaging the SP with MSDN, they have developers wooing users to their OS, and they get to sue the developers for way more than a regular license fee or MSDN price.
I know you're trying to sound clever and smart and in-the-know and so on, but I am dubious that Microsoft have decided to withhold a beta from the public to make a business decision of suing developers. Maybe I'm just being absurd with probabilities here, but perhaps it is more likely that the company originally responsible for delivering a poor quality product, missing many planned features, massively overbudget and over a year late just slipped up? We may never know.

Re:Bow to the closed source distrobution model! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387330)

*whoosh*

Re:Bow to the closed source distrobution model! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387390)

Am I just jaded, or am I the norm when I can honestly say that it wouldn't surprise me in the least if that were actually the case?

It's obvious (5, Insightful)

Alexx K (1167919) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386396)

MS doesn't want people giving SP1 bad reviews before it is released to the general public. That would damage Vista's reputation even more, and Microsoft most certainly doesn't want that.

Eh? (3, Insightful)

gnutoo (1154137) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386814)

The bad reviews are already out so what is left to gain? Distributing SP1 to developers will confirm the reviews but they are the type that has read about it anyway. Keeping it will not prove the reviews wrong but it will irritate developers who expect things to be bad and expect that much more work before the public gets it.

Re:Eh? (1)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387168)

Hmm? Much of the reviews come from sources that are paid by MS or have strong ties to MS and hesitate to say bad reviews of it, so yes it would be damage control for Vista. Even though it is an old story remember that MS was handing out laptops for favorable reviews of Vista http://slashdot.org/articles/06/12/27/1423234.shtml [slashdot.org] and It wouldn't surprise me if the reason they are trying to keep Vista SP1 away from the customer is for favorable press because when Joe MS-User sees that SP1 is coming out they might buy it if there aren't any overly negative reviews in the mainstream press.

Re:It's obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386888)

ORLY?

Re:It's obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386918)

MS doesn't want people giving SP1 bad reviews before it is released to the general public.

How is this garbage +5 insightful? Vista SP1 RC's have been available as part of a PUBLIC BETA for MSDN/Technet subscribers and other partners. It goes to show, ANY religion can distort reality for some people.

Re:It's obvious (1)

jtdennis (77869) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387528)

The press already has review copies of SP1. This is the people in the trenches that need to test it before deploying it.

I agree. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386400)

This is ridiculous. They should have slipstreamed copies of Vista SP1 on MSDN by now, they always have them up soon after RTM. This is strike 2 for me - the idiots previously decided not to put Windows Home Server on MSDN for some oddball reason. It's pissing me right off.

Re:I agree. (1)

mrbcs (737902) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386864)

Maybe cause they're trying to sell home server? Once it get's on p2p, it might be a bit harder. (Yes I know it's already out there. I can get it from my wholesaler with 10 cals for about $160.) I'm curious to see how it works and if it's worth it.

Big Revolt. (1)

gnutoo (1154137) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386404)

Are there more Vista developers than there are Vista users?

Cue demented inner dialog for Softies:


"Precious Software, Precious, Must HAVE!!!!"
"Master is bad for not letting me have. Must STEAL, must KILL!!!!"
"No, Master is gooooD. Master is looking out for pitiful consumers and me."
"But Precious, must have the PRECIOUS!!!"

and so on and so forth without clarity, self help or sense of reality.

Re:Big Revolt. (0, Flamebait)

TheNetAvenger (624455) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387212)

Over 100 million users, so probably no.

But I understand where you are coming from, with user base numbers this large, it beyond what OSX geeks and SlashDot trolls can comprehend.

Next in news, Vista is a flop even though it is the second most popular OS in history...

Re:Big Revolt. (2, Insightful)

kullnd (760403) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387856)

This claim always kills me...

How many of those 100 million users are part of that statistic because they were forced to be (i.e. could not get XP), and how many of those 100 million have wiped Vista off their machines and reverted back to XP?

That number really just tells you how many copies were sold, I'm sure it would be much less if MS didn't force people to get it on new machines.

They claim that it's as successful as the launch of XP, well no shit! I think they sell more computers now days than they did when XP came out, so take that into consideration.

100 million copies,
75 million disapointed customers

iTunes (1)

jupiterssj4 (801031) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386414)

I have had a problem ever since installing SP1, when I press play after I first open iTunes, it freezes and does not play. I have to close the process and then open iTunes again, and then it works fine. I have reinstalled audio driver and iTunes and neither fix it, so I attribute it to SP1 not being very compatible with iTunes

Re:iTunes (3, Insightful)

DigitlDud (443365) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386462)

Given Apple's history of poor Windows software and the convoluted implementation of iTunes on Windows, I'd say its the other way around.

Re:iTunes (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386656)

Really? Are you sure it's not another iteration of "Windows ain't done until [insert random competing package here] won't run?"

After all, it's not as if Microsoft has ever been "friendly" to a competitor, or for that matter felt constrained to act legally or even ethically.

Re:iTunes (4, Insightful)

TheNetAvenger (624455) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387248)

Wow Apple software not running properly on a Windows OS, say it isn't so...

Apple's software development for Windows is like a Toyota dealer fixing your Ferrari. It took Apple 10 years to get a QuickTime installer for WIndows that didn't try to lock the UI, because that is how they always did it on Macs, even though Windows users hadn't seen it since the Win3.1 days.

At least when MS develops Apple software, they get real Mac user and real developers and products like Office are some of the most polished applications for Macs. Apple could at least hire a team of 10 people that use or 'get' Windows at the very least, instead of this cross platform inferior designed crap that barely runs.

Parent speaks the truth (4, Insightful)

i.of.the.storm (907783) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387622)

Seriously, I downloaded the Safari for Windows beta thing to use as a KHTML test platform for web development but was immediately turned off by the OS X window stylings and behaviors, as well as the extra font smoothing that went beyond the built in smoothing to make everything look really blurry and ugly. From what I've seen, iTunes on Windows is the same way although I have never installed that piece of junk on my computer. In contrast, whenever I've used Office for Mac at school it acts just like any other Mac application, and sometimes I even preferred it over the Windows version. Now, I'm going to conjecture wildly and say it's Apple's arrogance that causes it to completely disregard all Windows GUI conventions. Most of my dislike of Apple stems from this arrogant vibe that everything should be done either their way or not at all.

Bah (4, Interesting)

ushering05401 (1086795) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386418)

My company is most likely in our last year of MSDN participation, but it has nothing to do with SP1.

The relationship between devs and MS has been deteriorating for some time. Off the top of my head I might point to the closing off of the IE development team from communication w/independents that occurred some time ago.

I am too jaded to sit here and detail all the problems that have been developing, so I will leave that to others. Needless to say it took quite some time before my partners were willing to consider looking away from MS as they have been developing with the Windows product line since 3.1.

developers, developers, developers (4, Funny)

Phantom Gremlin (161961) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386466)

MSDN subscribers, please remember that MSFT really cares about you:

developers, developers, developers,
developers, developers, developers,
developers, developers, developers, ...

I love this company!

Steve

Re:developers, developers, developers (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386898)

and at the big sales meeting...
sales, sales, sales,
sales, sales, sales,
sales, sales, sales,
sales, sales, sales, ...

now it is probably:
SP1, SP1, SP1,
SP1, SP1, SP1,
SP1, SP1, SP1,
SP1, SP1, SP1,

Gotta give it Ballmer, he sure understands innovation.

Re:developers, developers, developers (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387218)

MSDN subscribers, please remember that MSFT really cares about you:

developers, developers, developers,
developers, developers, developers,
developers, developers, developers, ...

I love this company!
YEEEARGH!

wow (1, Troll)

rastoboy29 (807168) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386586)

What a thrill...downloading a pirated Vista service pack...what could be more rewarding than pirating a patch for that crappy OS, wether the original is legit or not?

Re:wow (0, Troll)

jamesh (87723) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387414)

I would imagine that pirating Vista, or even a service pack for Vista, is more fun that actually using it!

The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot (2, Informative)

westlake (615356) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386604)

There is no story too trivial or misleading about Microsoft and Vista that won't make it to the front page of Slashdot.

Last Friday, the company released Vista SP1 for download by both individuals and companies who previously beta tested the service pack. This week, the company went further. "At the end of this week we will be making the English version of Windows Vista SP1 available to volume licensing customers ... Other languages will follow soon ... [and] later this month, SP1 will be available to MSDN and TechNet Plus subscribers," Mike Nash, corporate vice president of Windows product management, said in a posting on the Windows Vista Team Blog today. The primary hold up for broadly releasing SP1 has been minor glitches involving device driver installation, basically requiring that some device drivers will need to be reinstalled after installing SP1. Volume Buyers to Get Vista SP1 Early [internetnews.com] [February 11]

Re:The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot (5, Informative)

Yaur (1069446) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386900)

The point of developers getting it first (through MSDN) is to make sure that any compatibility problems get resolved before your customers, who could very well be volume buyers, upgrade their systems. The article you cite seems to confirm that what developers are complaining about is in fact happening.

Re:The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387050)

Well, the editor is KDawson. Go figure.

Re:The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387132)

Do stories go anywhere else but the front page on slashdot?

It also makes sense (2, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387222)

There always can be incompatibility problems. So you release it in the order of people who are most able to find and deal with those. The people who did beta testing should have no problem. If they were willing to run beta code, they are willing to deal with what comes with it. Volume customers are a next logical step. They presumably manage their updates and have a competent systems person so they can test and decide if a rollout is appropriate or if they need to wait for drivers/software to by updated. Then once they are sorted, you look at a public release.

Of course none of that really matters. A sizable crowd at Slashdot has just decided they'll do whatever they can to badmouth Vista, I guess in some hope all their FUD will keep it from succeeding.

Re:The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot (1)

Spikeles (972972) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387462)

Still.. how is it, review sites were able to get the full version of SP1 before technet subscribers? As mentioned in the original story, some subscribers pay thousands of dollars to be members of MSDN and TechNet and yet Computerworld reviewers got it first?. Problems with drivers? I thought the whole point of getting it out to the TechNet community was so they could test this and make up workaround for when they decide to deploy it, i also hazard a guess that they are fully capable of working around such issues.

Re:The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot (1)

coredog64 (1001648) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387674)

If the problem is drivers, dollars to doughnuts the problem is either with a company whose name starts with "n" and ends with "Vidia" or
another major video chipset manufacturer that was recently purchased by AMD. In neither case do I think their only access to Vista is
through "TechNet".

Re:The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot (4, Informative)

rijrunner (263757) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387750)

If you look at the timing of the original article, you'll find that it was posted on Friday. Basically, Microsoft caved in to pressure from that base. It was not something that was planned and the article is correct about the details when it was written. The link you provided is pointing to a timeframe after the first article was written.

Microsoft did not plan on releasing SP1 early to technet. The debate is accurately described and attributed. Microsoft's stance as described in the article is also accurate as of the time the article was written and posted. That Microsoft later reversed its position is something to be noted, but it is not "trivial or misleading" to post an *accurate* rundown of the argument which led to Microsoft's reversal. (Which had not even happened at the time the article was written).

Unless you can show that Microsoft had planned on an early release for this base, I think you might want to rethink your position. It was articles like the Computerworld article which led to the release, not any policy decision by Microsoft before there was a lot of backlash.

Here is the official announcement on the board that started the whole thing:

http://blogs.technet.com/technetplussubscriptions/archive/2008/02/04/technet-plus-sp1-availability-plan-of-record.aspx [technet.com]

"Now that we've made Windows Server 2008 available to all TechNet Plus subscribers there is a firestorm of questions about when will SP1 also be available for subscribers.

The current plan is that it will be available in mid-March, if that changes I'll let you know. In the meantime, please check out Mike Nash's blog post to learn more about SP1 and the timing of the availability.

Have Feedback? Leave a comment - I looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks,

Kathy Dixon

TechNet Plus subscriptions"

It was not until the 11th - today - that a new policy was mentioned. Your own counterargument is based on a post made this morning - several days after the article you say is misleading was posted. How was the Computerworld article misleading? It was 100% accurate when written and anyone can follow the link provided in the article and verify that. How could they know that Microsoft was going to change their policy? It was a stupid policy and led to a backlash and that was the story. The story is now that Microsoft needed to be pressured to do what they should have done in the first place.

pirating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22386660)

how the hell do you pirate a service pack? its not like they charge for it, so how the hell is it pirating?

Re:pirating? (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386684)

Ir hasn't been legitimately released to the public. It's more of a leak than pirating, I suppose.

Re:pirating? (1)

lantastik (877247) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386968)

You are correct, nothing is being "pirated". Which is why I had no problem downloading it from Usenet and installing it on my dev box. I mean, not that I would know where to look for that type of thing (alt.binaries.boneless, both x86 and x64, complete with PARs and NZBs).

Hey everybody!! (0, Troll)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386706)

I found the link to the "Legitimate" upgrade.

Go here [wayne.edu] and save it to a CD. Then load it up and patch up Vista.

It'll run faster than you ever can believe! It's like Vista, only better!

Really? (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387260)

Well since it seems to have support for about 5% of my apps and about 75% of my hardware, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

Please cut the crap with the "Just replace Windows with Linux it's better!" thing. This kind of crap will actually hurt Linux adoption overall. Linux is an alternative to Windows that is viable for some people, however it isn't a drop in replacement. If you market it as such, people are going to be pissed when they find out you are lying. Using Linux involves tradeoffs. Now that can be ok for many people, however you need to be up front about them and let people make their own choice. To try and pretend that it is just like Windows but better is rather dishonest, and counterproductive.

Re:Really? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387478)

Well since it seems to have support for about 5% of my apps and about 75% of my hardware, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.
Are you talking about Vista or Linux? :)

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387594)

I completely agree. Every single topic with the word "Microsoft" in it gets spammed with "JUST UZE LENUX ITZ BETTR DEN WIND0ZE". Really, it's getting annoying, and if anything just pushed me away from Linux more. It isn't the magic bullet. Linux has it's uses, I've ran it fine before, but I like my applications, thank you very much.

Re:Really? (1)

Bluewraith (1226564) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387658)

/Using Linux involves tradeoffs./ Yes, it does... but I am more then willing to sacrifice two hours of researching how to change my screensaver settings and learning more about the OS in the process then I am to plop down a couple of mouse-clicks in Vista and have it freeze trying to figure out what I want to do next.

Re:Really? (1)

Machtyn (759119) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387792)

The 25% of the hardware that isn't supported is usually top-of-the-line hardware that still barely works in MS Windows. Most of the hardware (greater than 75% in my un-knowledgeable estimation) released with Vista on it, will run Ubuntu without issue.

Of course, I will agree with the 5% of software. The average user, downloading that really cool software app, isn't going to recognize that an .exe is not going to work if they have Linux.

Re:Really? (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387918)

Have you actually tried it? If you can't stand the alternative OSS appz or cross platform released apps, then wine is your answer. I'd impressed and a little scared at actually how well it works (yes it will quite happily run trojans) and if it's MS Office/Outlook you can't live without than Crossover office is your answer.

Tell me again, what was it that you depend on that only runs on windows?

Business plan (2, Insightful)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386838)

Business plan:
1. Make a new version that developers will have to support.
2. Send factory-cracked copies to all the pirates.
3. Wait for developers to resort to using the pirated copies.
4. Sue them!
5. Profit!

Re:Business plan (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387004)

Sir, you missed the 'n. ...' line. That's not an admissible behavior!
You have been warned!

Re:Business plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387912)

6. Buy Yahoo!

I can see why software makers are anxious (2, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 6 years ago | (#22386914)

SP1 caused numerous stability problems on my laptop and I prefer to skip this service pack. The drivers do not like the changes and yes they are compatibility problems. sp1 is not a magic bullet to fix Vista's i/o problems either unfortunately.

hehe (2, Insightful)

evil9000 (72113) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387108)

I'm greatly amused by this.

Another example of Microsoft Genuine Advantage in action.

Remember, pirate software and get the latest support now, pay through the nose and get what you want much much later...

I feel sorry for the MS committed techies... (5, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387144)

Maybe this is just a biased view(I certainly haven't seen it all); but it seems like the techies responsible for field work on MS stuff just have more pain and less fun than the *nix techies do. These guys are drinking, and paying for, the kool-aid and they can't even get a RTM copy ahead of the press flacks and pirates. Over in *nix land, you can play with pre-alpha or later any time you want. These are the people who advocate for, plan, install, and support MS's stuff on the corporate level. They are the people whose fairly cheap labor helps prop up all the TCO "get the facts" and MS won't even give them the release in time to help them do their jobs. This is not exactly "catch the devs on IRC channel foo on bar.org" territory.

I can understand why MS plays hard and mean on licensing, format lock-in, and the like. That is just good(if unpleasant) business. I don't understand this, though. It would cost them basically nothing to throw the people who eat their shit 9 to 5 a bone. And they don't. Why?

Re:I feel sorry for the MS committed techies... (5, Interesting)

ricegf (1059658) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388272)

If I had a mod point handy, I'd happily toss it your way. Reading your post, I had a sudden insight into why I went from a Microsoft enthusiast (back when Microsoft seemed anxious for me to use their stuff) to a Microsoft "highly unenthusiast" (now that they treat me like dirt, or worse).

Using Microsoft products just isn't fun anymore. It's like living in Apple's "1984" commercial, but without the girl. Using FOSS is still very much fun. It's like living in a GoDaddy commercial, but without the Fox censors.

Thanks, you're cheaper than a shrink. :-)

Actually NO... (1, Informative)

TheNetAvenger (624455) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387162)

Where does this crap come from?

RTM has been available to beta testers, the ISO, the installation EXE, and even the WU enabler since the 6th.

MSDN and Technet should also have access to it now as well today. (Besides the fact that a majority of MSDN and Technet people have had beta access as well.)

This story is pure trash, and is just mis-informing more people, but hey it is MS so I guess that is ok to give people bad information...

Re:Actually NO... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22388400)

MSDN and Technet should also have access to it now as well today

"Should" being the operative word, which is what people are complaining about. It isn't there. I checked both MSDN and Technet today just in case. Apparently, you didn't.

Good job supporting the opinion you intended to criticize. I honestly couldn't have done better.

Do they even care anymore? (2, Interesting)

KlomDark (6370) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387400)

Using Microsoft software has always been somewhat of an abusive relationship, we're all used to that.

However, this time around with Vista, it just seems like they just don't give a shit anymore. Really slow, incompatible stuff this time. They've always been really good about backwards compatibility (Sure we can all find half a million examples of stuff that didn't work with each new OS release), but this time I just look at the whole thing with a boggled "What are they doing and why?" expression.

And now this stuff with Vista SP1. I was really shocked when I logged into my MSDN account and SP1 wasn't there.

It's like they don't want Vista to actually be successful. Like they are actively trying to fail this time. And their numbers about 100 million sold are really a smoke and mirrors tactic. Yes, I've bought a copy of Vista, as it came with my newest computer. Stayed on for about an hour and then I went down the challenging, but more rewarding path of the XP x64 edition, Vista just seemed to crawl. (Plus all the BestBuy crapware pre-installed made the decision pretty easy)

So, anyone have a good tinfoil hat theory about what the hell they are up to this time? This is probably the most crucial time in nearly 2 decades for them to release a near-perfect OS - They are getting percentage points eaten by Linux and OSX constantly. People are sick of their shit, and this time they screw the pooch, TWICE. I don't get it. Is it just Bill Gates leaving the ship, or has Google sucked up all the good developers, or something else? Do they want it to fail, and fail soon, so that they can back out of their *IAA DRM agreements?

This is almost seeming too well planned for mere incompetence. Which leaves actual maliciousness. But then, why??

Re:Do they even care anymore? (1, Insightful)

grumling (94709) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387714)

It may be because most of the company was hired right out of college and has never worked for anyone else.

There isn't any incentive to work crazy hours, or to do anything cutting edge, since there's no stock options that will go through the roof anymore.

As I understand it, MS managers are promoted from within (a good thing IF they get a lot of manager training), and this means they are managing people who's job they used to do, only "much better." If they didn't get good management training, and never worked anywhere else, they do everything "The Microsoft Way (TM)" and just bitch about the screwed up things that happen instead of trying to change things.

Bureaucracies work great if there's a strong leader pushing things along. I would think that if I worked for MS, I would be a fan of Bill. Now that he's gone, I don't think I would feel the same way about Ballmer.

No tinfoil needed. Just experience working for a large company with little competition.

Re:Do they even care anymore? (1)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387732)

"From Microsoft's founding in 1975 until 2006, Gates had primary responsibility for Microsoft's product strategy."

"On June 15, 2006, Gates announced that he would transition out of his day-to-day role over the next two years to dedicate more time to philanthropy. He divided his responsibilities between two successors, placing Ray Ozzie in charge of day-to-day management and Craig Mundie in charge of long-term product strategy."

Quoth Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates)

This could be entirely arbitrary to whats happening, but, personally I think it has a lot to due with how Microsoft is 'acting' lately.

Re:Do they even care anymore? (2, Interesting)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388120)

Politics, it's as simple as that.

My guess someone (or group) had enough "pull" in the organization to take over the Vista project management. In the end, you had a bunch of suits making all sorts of requests that were leading the original development path down a wrong way. Let's face it; Microsoft has all the money in the world to higher some of the best minds around. Same goes for Google. I simple can't imagine the problems with Vista was a technical issue to start with.

Anyone else notice how quite things have been in Redmond? I have this gut feeling a major corporate shakedown is happening as we speak. Certainly, heads will roll in the process. If so, I doubt Vista will be the cause, but rather a victim like the rest of us.

make the switch (1)

jrj0001 (1082231) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387768)

Switch to Linux. The only software piracy (license violations) that go on in the open source world are by developers, never by end users. Software piracy is inevitable in the proprietary software world for both techies and end users in general. They have no choice. For example, a techy will very rarely buy a license for some software that they have an interest in for whatever reason (say for skill development - in which case they are indirectly helping the vendor who is trying to charge them!), and an end user is much more interested in getting stuff for free (as in beer), especially given that there is something of a "chase" so to speak to find the cracked copy or whatever. In another life I was a Windows sys admin, and have pirated absolutely nothing (relatively speaking ;) since I switched to Linux four years ago. Do it, its liberating.

More Anti-MS Crap... (4, Insightful)

Captain Original (922169) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387852)

You know, I generally enjoy /. However, every so often one of these stories comes up (it seems to be more frequently these days) that is just complete bullshit (Disclosure: I've been an MSDN subscriber for years). I don't know anyone who is complaining about SP availability. There will always be some who complain, but that's more than likely a very small minority. For those testing compatibility, the betas and RCs have been out for quite a while for the sole purpose of testing applications. I haven't worked with them personally, but a conservative guess would be 95% of functionality can be testing on the RCs. What gets me though is that over the weekend a much more impactful event occurred: the Windows 2008 RTM. Not only that, but Windows 2008 IS available on MSDN (all English flavors at least, and most likely TechNet as well, but I don't know for sure). Windows 2008 is a much more important release than SP 1, but, alas, that gets no coverage on /.

While I usually don't take this side... (1)

rezalas (1227518) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387916)

I also understand that Microsoft receives a bad rap a bit too early with things like this. As many have said, this has been available to early adopters willing to use beta installs already. People who want a guaranteed fix (often the people who don't test before deploying anything out of the MSDN) don't see them because they don't subscribe to betas. While it isn't a beta, releasing it slowly like this isn't something IT personnel should be new to seeing either. Microsoft seems to be trying to please everyone by doing this, and in doing so people have found something new to complain about. When you are on the top, everyone aims for you :: shrug :: As for linux, Unix, ect ect. lets face the facts: not everyone is ready or able to utilize *nix OS. I know what I'm doing and think it is rather easy, however when I get down to looking at what I do to get things done I realize that if I asked my sisters, neighbors, god forbid my employees to do anything near the same as I do they would trash the system or tear their hair out in no time. Just because it has a GUI doesn't make it user friendly, I'm sorry to say. Until I can stick a CD into the tray and have it "just work" it isn't ready for main stream homes or business. I know that you can get alot of windows programs to function in Linux using things like Wine and Cedega, however until those are included in a mainstream package for free with free updates and "just work" without tweaks and knowledge of command line functions (basically, until you can be a "user") it won't be a solution.

Not the first time piracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22388096)

has been the better option.
Something as simple as my product key from MSDN not working with a volume licencing edition (sent to me bt Microsoft) of W2K3 Advanced Server. After being bounced from helpdesk to helpdesk by MS, and ending up at the same ones several times, there was evidently nobody that could help. Getting a product key from a dodgy key generator worked, and then I had to download the MS product key changer. All worked fine after that. So yes, their lack of interest in being helpful often leads to piracy (of sorts) being the best option.

Reminds of Vista in the Action Pack (MAPS) (5, Interesting)

LoadWB (592248) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388546)

In the Action Pack, we only received Vista Business, but we could upgrade it to Ultimate for $150.

Now to obtain (or retain) the Action Pack you have to take online assessments. I have had my Action Pack for several years now, and I felt rather insulted.

You see, Microsoft is fighting terror^H^H^H^H^H^H piracy by forcing these assessments on Action Pack subscribers. This move is intended to "keep the Action Pack out of the hands of people who shouldn't have it." In other words, people who pay $300 per year and let their friends use five licenses of Office and Windows XP. But what Microsoft does not understand is that making MAPS more difficult to obtain just increases the likelihood that the software will be pirated.

I am really too busy installing its software in Virtual PC or on a real workstation, testing, and learning how to use the software so I can sell to and support my customers. Too busy to read all the marketing horse shit they shove down my throat. Let me tell you how sick and damned tired I was of reading their Truth About Linux (or whatever the hell it was called) materials. I was done with that after the first brochure.

But overall, Microsoft is just pushing us away: the system builders, the techs, the developers. We all slaved away to get Microsoft where it is today, and it needs us no more.

Wanna hear something really stupid? How about that a system builder is not allowed to give a customer a copy of the OEM installation CD of Office 2007. Nope. We are supposed to provide the customer with a way of restoring the installation. Microsoft's recommendation: Ghost, or something similar. What? So if my customer's Office 2007 installation blows up and has to be reinstalled, they get to lose ALL of their data in favor of a Ghost restore.

More hoops. Maybe this is what they want all along, but with the exception of Windows XP and Vista, I no longer sell OEM software with my machines. Server 2003? Retail. Office 2007? Retail. Why? Because it is less of a heartache and wallet-ache when the times comes.

Need to upgrade your server hardware? Copy the installation to a new machine? Bzzzt! Nope, technically the SBS 2003 install and 75 CALs are locked to the original hardware.

Bought Office 2003 Basic Edition and want to upgrade to Professional? Just install the Professional upgrade? Bzzzt! Sorry, this just isn't your day. Basic Edition, as an OEM only edition, does not qualify for the upgrade to Office Professional. However, every version of Office back to 95, even the Works Suites, DO qualify.

Wowsers. Really, Microsoft does not need us anymore. Really. If I wanted to screw your sister I would become your best pal. But now I am screwing your sister I no longer need you as a friend, so piss off.
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