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Mac OS X 10.5.2 Update Brings Welcome Fixes

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the service-pack-1 dept.

OS X 433

jetpack writes to make sure we're aware that Apple's OS X 10.5.2 update is available and that it contains plenty of improvements and fixes that users have been asking for. Macworld enumerates some of the big ones, saying that the update "shows Apple listens to users" (sometimes). A couple of the new features simply restore Tiger (10.4) capabilities that Leopard (10.5) had inexplicably withdrawn. You can now shut off the much-maligned transparency of the menu bar, and organize your Dock stacks hierarchically and display them as folders. And Apple has provided welcome access to common Time Machine functions in the menu bar.

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AEBS backups (5, Interesting)

sam.thorogood (979334) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387378)

You can't back up to drives plugged into an Airport Extreme, though, even though the much-toted Time Capsule [apple.com] will apparently be able to (In their defence, this could come with an update before the Time Capsule actually ships).

Re:AEBS backups (2, Insightful)

tgd (2822) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387422)

No, but at least AirDisk drives work correctly again, at a usable performance.

10.5.2 is what 10.5 should've been in Apple didn't rush it at the expense of QA.

Re:AEBS backups (1)

A1miras (595087) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387604)

10.5.2 is what 10.5 should've been in Apple didn't rush it at the expense of QA.

Rush? Leopard was originally targeted for June '07. They did anything but rush, but you've got to ship at some point and users are always a bit better at finding bugs.

Re:AEBS backups (0, Offtopic)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387894)

And Windows Vista was originally targeted for... when? THAT OS sure feels rushed to me...

Re:AEBS backups (1)

Eevee1 (1147279) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388088)

The prison guards in Futurama, year 3000.

"Do you know why they use Windows in prison? Because it always locks up."

Re:AEBS backups (1)

earnest murderer (888716) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388142)

And Windows Vista was originally targeted for... when? THAT OS sure feels rushed to me...
Who cares about Vista, we're talking about OS X. Smelling one turd and remarking on it's fetid bouquet takes nothing away from the next piece of poo.

Re:AEBS backups (2, Insightful)

osu-neko (2604) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388438)

Rush? Leopard was originally targeted for June '07. They did anything but rush, but you've got to ship at some point and users are always a bit better at finding bugs.

Huh? What does the original target date have to do with it?

Whether it was released early, on time, or late is one fact. Whether it was rushed or released when good and ready is another fact. Whether it was shipped in a Monday or a Friday or some other day is a third fact. Despite the fact that all there of these facts are related to time and the release date, they're pretty much independent of one another. Knowing the release date will tell you the third, knowing also the original target date will tell you the first, but neither tells you anything at all about the second, since the second fact has nothing to do with either the first or the third.

Re:AEBS backups (2, Informative)

Muzzarelli (102806) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387566)

Tried doing an initial time machine backup to a directly connected drive, then moving the drive to the AEBS? Works for me.

Re:AEBS backups (1)

A1miras (595087) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387582)

Unfortunately, whatever magic allows Time Capsule to backup to plugged in drives most likely relates to Time Capsule firmware, and has little to do with Mac OS X.

I agree this functionality would be quite nice.

Re:AEBS backups (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387974)

leopard betas supported AEBS/time machine usage.

Re:AEBS backups (2, Informative)

appleguru (1030562) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387600)

You have two options... (Though only the first will help you with backing up to an airdisk)

1) defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

2) Buy leopard server ;-)

Re:AEBS backups (3, Informative)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387686)

I believe the functionality has been there since 10.5.

I have an external drive hooked up to my debian box (Formatted HFS+, RW). I have it shared via SMB as smb://debian.local/TimeMachine.

After running the command on my machine to backup to 'unauthorized' shares and enabling time machine on the drive, time machine works great.

I hadn't planned on this when I started, but time machine knows that it's a network drive and will mount it in the background to do the backup. Even if I've rebooted, taken my computer out for a while, etc. As soon as I come back the Time Machine drive will mount and start the backup.

The only thing 10.5.2 added was a fancy new icon for it.

Re:AEBS backups (4, Insightful)

nsayer (86181) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388024)

The reason that it's "unauthorized" is because beta testers discovered problems with data corruption.

It'd suck to need to restore from your backups only to discover that they were pooched.

Re:AEBS backups (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387742)

Will Time Machine do differential backups now?

BTW, why is it that a Leoptard service pack is ZOMGIWANTTOHAVESTEVEJOBSMANBABYAMAZINGHAVETOHAVEIT!!!!!... while Vista SP1 is maligned? Just compare how long Vista has been out with how long Leoptard has been out, and it becomes even more apparent which company released a functioning product, and which one required a desperate emergency update.

But on the plus side, at least Apple isn't charging for this particular point release update. You know it had to have been discussed, of course.

Re:AEBS backups (1)

mattsgotredhair (945945) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387808)

This is 10.5.2 which came from 10.5.1. Apple AFAIK hasn't ever charged for releases beyond the 10.x increase. 10.4 to 10.5 costs money but not 10.5.x to 10.5.y.

Re:AEBS backups (5, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388074)

Will Time Machine do differential backups now?

Well, it has been for the last two months and I doubt they disabled it.

Just compare how long Vista has been out with how long Leoptard has been out, and it becomes even more apparent which company released a functioning product, and which one required a desperate emergency update.

You're 100% correct. Leopard is down to the point that they're fixing cosmetic issues that customers complained about, while Vista still isn't sure if you can listen to an MP3 while downloading from a local fileserver. That desperate emergency update, aka SP1, is about a year long in coming. It must irk MS to no end that Leopard just needs the final spit and polish while Vista languishes.

Typed on Linux. I don't really care one way or the other, but there's no way you can say that Leopard is as troubled as Vista.

Re:AEBS backups (3, Informative)

sjf (3790) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388330)

>> Will Time Machine do differential backups now?
>Well, it has been for the last two months and I doubt they disabled it.

If the unit of back up is the entire file system, then you are of course correct. I suspect the parent poster was looking for differences within files...that is, only backing up the 'diff' between two files, not the entire file when it changes.

I doubt we'll see this until zfs.

Re:AEBS backups (1)

PenguSven (988769) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388412)

Time machine is all differential backups. it just APPEARS as if they're all full backups by using some tricky file-system stuff.

Re:AEBS backups (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22388018)

It's a big update too. 180MB

Re:AEBS backups (1)

PJ Kix (464415) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388282)

i was able to get this working by first using the usb drive as a local backup, then later atatching it to the AEBS. when the disk showed up on the network over wifi it just worked like normal. although for some reason now my drive is full and has been unsucsessful to backup recently.

i mostly had problems using the AEBS to get disks to show up reliably when using a hub or trying to mix hfs drives with dos and its too bad it doesn't work with ntfs but thats another story ...

Troll thread (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387382)

All trolls please post here please so its easier to mod us all down.

Re:Troll thread (4, Funny)

SuperRenaissanceMan (1027668) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387452)

Jets suck, Yankees suck, Knicks suck... Krypton sucks... Apple sucks...

Re:Troll thread (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388216)

All trolls please post here please so its easier to mod us all down.

Jets suck, Yankees suck, Knicks suck... Krypton sucks... Apple sucks...

Score:1, Insightful
Did I miss something?

Re:Troll thread (1)

SuperRenaissanceMan (1027668) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388296)

I would've gone with funny, myself, but who can say for sure?

Re:Troll thread (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22388036)

Macs are for gays!

Does it fix... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387404)

...the fact that it's still the evil seed of Satan Jobs?

Re:Does it fix... (2, Funny)

MacColossus (932054) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387464)

Unfortunately no. It doesn't fix the fact the Linux kernel is the evil seed of Linus Torvalds or that Windows is the evil seed of Gates and Monkey boy Ballmer either. I guess Apple can't fix anything.

Re:Does it fix... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387612)

Hmmm... parent is modded up, this post is modded troll. Go go Slashdot moderators!

This update is great! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387442)

My company Yuba City Web Site Design [thesitesmiths.com] recently upgraded all of our Macs to this new upgrade and just can't begin to describe the huge benefits it's given us in our day to day productivity! Go Mac!!

Yay Menubar! (1)

mrxak (727974) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387450)

Sweet, no more need for a hack to stop the menubar from being transparent. Now if only they'd make the dock look like it did in 10.4...

Menubar! how to make it not completely obnoxious (2, Informative)

acrobg (1175095) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387552)

granted I'd like the dock to look like it did in 10.4, but turning the glass effect off with the following 2 script lines: defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean YES killall Dock (to turn back on change YES to NO). It makes the dock be side-style while still on he bottom. If your'e lazy and have eitehr cocktail or onyx, you can do it in there with the force to side-style mode option.

Re:Menubar! how to make it not completely obnoxiou (1)

acrobg (1175095) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387586)

I meant the dock...my mistake.

Re:Yay Menubar! (1)

Marsell (16980) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387972)

Yes, indeed. I quite liked this from the list:

Addresses legibility issues with the menu bar with an option to turn off transparency in Desktop & Screen Saver preferences.

Shouldn't the default be the one that never has legibility issues? What does that semi-transparent menu really give us in return? Hello, Apple?

Without reading the reversion list (2, Interesting)

Scareduck (177470) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387454)

... would it be possible for Apple to realize who their customers are and restore the ability to do two-way copying of MP3 (non-AAC, really) songs in iTunes? That got yanked a while ago, and it's an irritating functionality loss. There [macworld.com] are [scifihifi.com] alternatives [crispsofties.com] (hat tip: MacWorld [macworld.com] ), but Apple's customer control tactics are almost as bad as the record companies'.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387644)

they have time machine to backup your whole drive now! The only supported way to put music on your iPod is thru the iTunes.. which is backed up. I agree that they could make iPods more "hacker" friendly, but it simply won't happen.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387690)

You know... you can drag&drop your iTunes songs to the desktop. It will copy them to the target folder. Works for mp3s - just did that the other day.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (4, Informative)

singularity (2031) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387702)

Wow, that took some research to figure out what in the world you were talking about.

You do not want "two-way copying of MP3 (non-AAC, really) songs in iTunes", you are talking about bidirectional iPod syncing in iTunes. That is to say if there is a song on an iPod that is not in the iTunes Library, iTunes would copy the song from the iPod onto the computer.

That got yanked a while ago, and it's an irritating functionality loss.

Huh? I still have my (still functional) 2nd. Generation iPod. I have been syncing iPods with iTunes for a long time and I can assure you that "feature" was never in iTunes.

Apple has to walk a fine line with the recording industry, and cannot do anything too blatant to piss off the record labels.

Having my friend walk over with his 160GB iPod and give me his entire music collection, facilitated by Apple themselves? Yeah, I can see some issues with that.

There are plenty of very capable third-party programs out there that do exactly what you are talking about (Senuti being the big one on the Mac right now). They do what you are talking about, and Apple does not get into trouble for it. I do not see the issue here.

And please stop saying it was functionality that was dropped from iTunes. It was never there.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (4, Informative)

shawnce (146129) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387854)

You can however sync purchased songs in both directions since if music is purchased Apple knows what account it is associated with and will let you sync in both directions with authorized iTunes libraries (under the same account).

http://www.apple.com/support/ipod/tutorials/beyondthebasics.html [apple.com]

Copy your purchases to another computer
1. Connect your iPod to your computer and open iTunes.
2. Choose File > "Transfer Purchases from iPod".
3. If you need to authorize your computer to play these purchases, select Store > "Authorize Computer".


http://www.apple.com/itunes/sync/ipod.html [apple.com]

Sync both ways.
When you sync your iPod with iTunes, you do exactly that: Keep your iPod and your computer synchronized. That means anything you've purchased from the iTunes Store (even on the go from your iPod touch), your ratings, on-the-go playlists, and even bookmarks from podcasts and audiobooks all sync back to your Mac or PC.[1]

1. Music and media not purchased from the iTunes Store sync only one way, from your computer to your iPod. To transfer non-purchased music from computer to computer, read this tutorial.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387976)

You can however sync purchased songs in both directions since if music is purchased

Great - so I can sync music if I buy it from Apple* but I can't sync music I've recorded myself. Thanks Apple - that's intuitive!

* but not play it on a generic mp3 player

Re:Without reading the reversion list (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388304)

Great - so I can sync music if I buy it from Apple* but I can't sync music I've recorded myself. Thanks Apple - that's intuitive!

* but not play it on a generic mp3 player


If you have a regular iPod... you go into that nice directory marked "iPod Control" then look for a folder marked "Music". Sure the filenames are messed up, but nothing a competent ID3 tag editor can't fix.

Geez, Apple makes it "non-trivial" to copy your music back and people complain. This trick has worked since first-gen iPods! Apple doesn't want to make it too easy to copy music off the iPod, otherwise they'd get sued (fairly or unfairly) for people doing P2P filesharing (iPod to iPod). Unless you want MORE people getting sued by the RIAA (Apple, and Does 1-100million (iPod users)).

Re:Without reading the reversion list (1)

T-Bone-T (1048702) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388364)

Tell me, how is iTunes supposed to tell an mp3 you've created from one downloaded from the internet? The ID3 tags will be different but that is easily changed and isn't reliable. Besides, how exactly do you create a recording on an iPod? I wasn't aware of that functionality.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (1)

Mike Savior (802573) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387922)

There was an official plugin for iTunes made back when the program and iPods were quite young, and the plugin didn't come built-in with an install. It allowed bi-directional syncing, but the plugin was eventually dropped.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (2, Insightful)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387932)

Having my friend walk over with his 160GB iPod and give me his entire music collection, facilitated by Apple themselves? Yeah, I can see some issues with that.

As Apple have no idea whether the songs are still under copyright & what license they're under, I don't see what business Apple have in preventing you copying your data around.

The only reason Apple impose this artificial limitation on customers is at the behest of their real customers - the RIAA, et al.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387720)

would it be possible for Apple to realize who their customers are and restore the ability to do two-way copying of MP3 (non-AAC, really) songs in iTunes?
That would be very cool. You could use it like a vacuum cleaner: have everyone in the office plug their iPod into your machine, and automatically vacuum up all the freely copyable tracks, and then place your track collection on their iPod. It'd be a win-win, and Apple customers would LOVE it. And technically, the TOUCH could even do this wirelessly.

I think the only technical issue would be that even a 160 GB iPod would be way, way too small.

If Apple doesn't do it, you know ZUNE will. So Apple, get on the ball! And add blu-ray burners to all your computers while your at it!!!

Pre-emptive Feature deprecation as a good strategy (3, Insightful)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387952)

IN general apple tends to remove old features/ ports/ connectors when it adds replacements or equalivalents. Apple is a first mover in many areas: parallel ports? ADB, Floppy disks, ....
Then it adds them back if there are howls.

It's a good strategy in many ways. First, it allows one to keep the idea that there is one-primary-way-for-novices-to-do-something on most mac. When you go to another mac, it behaves the same. (e.g. Life is a box of chocolates with linux. when you sit down at someone elses terminal, focus might follow the mouse, it might auto-raise, god knows what happens when you launch emacs (xterm or text, context colored or not, etc...) Uniformity is viewed as good mac land because ultimately by not having to think too much or memorize short cuts you can just focus on getting the job done and the computer is more appliance like than tweaker box like. It's not that you can't customize a mac, it's just stupid to try in general.

It also allows them to introduce new lower level mechanism that break old higher level mechanisms. Such as the clean/dirty file tracking used for Time Machine.

I don't know why they deprecated your MP3 file moving. My guess however it was the opposite intent. they were trying to put in speed bumps--apples view of the best DRM seems to be to simply use invoconvience rather than prohibition when they can. I rather like that approach philosophically.

Re:Without reading the reversion list (3, Insightful)

fingers1122 (636011) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387954)

There are alternatives (hat tip: MacWorld), but Apple's customer control tactics are almost as bad as the record companies'.
I don't think that's entirely true. Apple in my view has done a fairly good job of satisfying the demands of the record companies with regard to content control while still allowing fairly simple exploits to its own content protection. Bottom line is Apple could not have struck the kind of deals they did without assuring the film/record companies that their content would be completely protected--an impossible guarantee, as Apple surely knows. But Apple has struck a good balance in keeping the big companies happy, creating interest from other studios, and not getting terribly in the way of user experience.

What about the Parental Controls/Dashboard bug? (1)

JonTurner (178845) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387466)

Can anyone who has installed this confirm that the Parental Controls bug is fixed? (Enable parental controls on one account and Dashboard widgets are broken on all accounts). Spent a couple hours trying to get it working again, without success. On the upside, TimeMachine did let me roll back to a hour before I enabled Parental Controls so nothing lost, other than an evening and some confidence in Apple's software testing methodology. (which is why I'm asking here... I want somebody else to "go first" on this update!)

Re:What about the Parental Controls/Dashboard bug? (5, Informative)

the_proton (257557) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387608)

To quote the release notes [apple.com] :

Addresses an issue in which Dashboard widgets may no longer be accessible after switching to or from an account that has Parental Controls enabled.

Re:What about the Parental Controls/Dashboard bug? (1)

JonTurner (178845) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387726)

Yes, so I read. But that doesn't answer my original question.

"Can anyone who has installed this confirm that the Parental Controls bug is fixed? "
Because it wouldn't be the first time in history that a patch which claims to fix something, doesn't. So have you installed the patch and does it fix this problem?

Re:What about the Parental Controls/Dashboard bug? (1)

p4ul13 (560810) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388182)

Good point. I upgraded, and my Dashboard still is frozen.

Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (4, Insightful)

starglider29a (719559) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387476)

I still double click my title bar expecting the window to vanish, leaving the title bar there, beneath my mouse, so I can say 'thanks' click click. And be back to where I was.

We were so amazed when Windows 3.0 taught us to "minimize" and still have ***another application running*** (back when DOS was neato) that we didn't ask "ok, so, why do I have to reach to the very farthest point on the screen to get my window back?"

Yes, Exposé might be a cool way around that, and some Vista maven may say 'aeroglass', but click-click... click-click is about as simple as it can possibly get. And no motion sickness!

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1)

shelterpaw (959576) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387584)

What about spaces. Seems pretty fast and simple and easily selectable via the menu bar. Between that and expose, I can't imagine the problem. Plus you can double click on any window bar and it'll move to the dock. Perhaps I'm not understanding your issue.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387790)

My big complaint about spaces is that the pager doesn't show what's in the desktop. I greatly prefer Desktop Manger [berlios.de] as it gives you a real pager.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (3, Informative)

evand (2571) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388006)

If you hit F8, you get a zoomed out view of all of your desktops, with live previews of the windows on them included. You can drag and drop windows between spaces in this view, as well, if you like.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1)

shelterpaw (959576) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388206)

right and can also assign this function to one of the buttons on a multi function mouse.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22388060)

And while you were so Amazed at what Windows 3.0 could do in 1990, Mac users were getting stuff done in 1988 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Software_6 [wikipedia.org]

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1)

Spikeles (972972) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388078)

but click-click... click-click is about as simple as it can possibly get. And no motion sickness!
I beg to differ. Some of the window managers in Linux allow you to just roll the middle mouse when your mouse is over the title bar.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (2, Insightful)

maczealot (864883) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388112)

Absolutely agreed. I am a huge fanboy, and even I don't give a new update this much positive spin when it has just come out.

The third-party window shade is from Unsanity [unsanity.com] but alas does not work in 10.5

This is one of those legacy features that you'll just have to learn to live without (i.e. use Expose) similar to having to constantly turn on "Windows classic folders" and is nothing compared to some of the BASIC OS functions that need addressing:

- Open a folder in a listview should be one button (i.e. enter, which currenty goes to rename, really??) not Command-O
- Screenshotting needs to be waaaay easier (i.e. single key rather than shift-command-3 or whatever)
Etc. etc.

Sorry Apple, but I'll be waiting on installing this update as it seems little more than a few minor bug fixes (iCal? Yeah it has more problems than that)

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1)

Westacular (118145) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388336)

You realize that you can remap both of those shortcuts in System Preferences, right?

I'll grant that the default screenshot shortcut seems more than a bit arbitrary, but seriously: the vast majority of users don't take screenshots so often that it should have a dedicated F key out-of-the-box.

And with your Finder issue, you can also open a folder in list view by hitting Cmd-Down, which is (on most Mac keyboards) a whole lot easier to hit than most other individual keys on the keyboard.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22388210)

No, WindowShadeX has not been updated for Leopard. http://unsanity.com/haxies/wsx [unsanity.com]

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (2, Insightful)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388294)

I just don't see it happening any time soon. The problem is, with Mac OS X in this state is a boon for switchers. Things are just familiar enough to get people to switch to Mac OS X without them having to grate their brains too much. During windowshade's absence, Expose has done a fairly good job filling that space in many Mac users' hearts.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1)

greylingrover (876207) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388314)

Hmmm... I'm running a stock install of 10.5.1 and the title-bar double-click window-shade functionality works just fine... at least in Safari and Finder, so presumably most everywhere.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388448)

Double clicking the title bar just minimizes the windows.

The Post was talking about "Window Shade" functionality. Something built into OS 8/9. Double clicking on the title bar rolls the window up into just the title bar.

Unsanity has released a Haxie for this functionality in OS X:
http://unsanity.com/images/previews/wsx/wsx1.jpg [unsanity.com]

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (1)

mccabem (44513) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388396)

Sorry, but I must take exception. DOS was never neato. Ever.

Re:Does it bring back the "Windows Shade"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22388452)

Agreed! God, finally someone else! I just switched, and have found a whole bunch of dumb ass problems like that. I cant stand how simple things in my version of OSX (not the current version) wont let me cut files on the desktop, how rightclicking in the mac version of Firefox doesnt work on bookmarks, as in "delete" "open in new tab" etc, and thats just accepted, all these simple windows things are just impossible in OSX. And the ads actually mock windows! These are simple things, that are just a few lines of code away from being fixed no doubt, and yet dont work at all.

They dont tell you about all the simple things that cant be done in OSX before you switch!

Apple hss... (0)

derfy (172944) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387504)

What hss Apple wrought!

Leopard Sucks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387598)

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Leopard fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Mac (a Core 2 Duo iMac w/2 GB of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to back up a 17 GB iPhoto library from a folder on the hard drive to my Time Capsule. 20 minutes. At home, on my Sawtooth G4 400 running MacOS 8.6, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, Safari will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Terminal is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various OS X Macs, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a WinMac that has run faster than its PowerPC counterpart, despite the WinTel's faster chip architecture. My PowerPC 5200/75 with 8 megs of ram runs faster than this 2.0 ghz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that Leopard is a superior operating system.

Leopard addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use OS X over other the faster, cheaper and more stable 8.6.

But has... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22387614)

OpenGL been fixed in X11 yet? It's pretty annoying not to be able to play games that use it, among other things.

Racoon is still broken (1)

Temkin (112574) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387616)



They didn't fix Racoon (IPsec IKE key manager). It's still busted. Worked fine in Tiger...

Re:Racoon is still broken (1)

CatOne (655161) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387908)

Busted how? I've been using racoon for VPN purposes for 4 months, and it's worked fine. So some specifics could be welcome, as it's not 100% "busted."

Re:Racoon is still broken (1)

Temkin (112574) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388048)


NAT problem. See Apple bug 5565096.

right direction (2, Interesting)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387634)

Sounds like this is a step in the right direction. As soon as they remove the silly rooting behavior in column view in the finder, I'll buy leopard. Funny how one of these "features" they decided to include is keeping me from buying the OS. I run a mac shop, but I just bought an additional license for 10.4 instead of 10.5 because frankly, I don't see much worth shelling out the extra dough for in leopard. (In 10.4 you can bypass the rooting behavior by making an alias for the folder.) I know how to use rsync and cron, so I don't really need time machine.... and I'm not all that interested in the new preview view for the files. It's not like I'd delete it off a computer that I just bought, but I don't see much reason to upgrade since some of the things they did are not the behavior I want.

Re:right direction (1)

emurphy42 (631808) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387760)

What does "rooting behavior" mean in this context? (We have a donated machine with 10.3.9 but I only do a small handful of things with it.)

Re:right direction (2, Informative)

ToastyKen (10169) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387884)

I'm assuming he means that if you put, say, your Documents folders in the Dock, and you open it in column view, you can't scroll left to its parent. The Documents folder becomes the "root" of the column view, forcing you to find your home directory somewhere else if you want to get to something else in your home directory.

Re:right direction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22388030)

If that's what he means, then that's about the stupidest reason I ever heard not to upgrade.

Once you open a column view, the 'root', and your home directory appear in the sideboard, along with any other directories you want to make permanent.
I think It's good that the fussiest Mac users get left behind.

Re:right direction (1)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387906)

What I mean is that when you click on a special folder (e.g., home, applications, documents, etc.) in the Finder in column view, it "roots" you to that spot and removes the horizontal scroll bar. In reality, it's just a silly thing that would require some retraining on my part (more likely, stop using column view) but I really dislike it. The reason for that because I feel like the Finder is trying to hide the upper level directories from me. I know perfectly damn well I'm at /Users/username rather than at "home" wherever that is and I take offense that Apple thinks I'm too stupid to be able to use a horizontal scroll bar. On 10.3 and 10.4 you can fix this by the hint shown here [macosxhints.com] (macosxhints is a really great site, btw). I tried this trick on Leopard on a demo machine in an apple store and it didn't work. :(

Re:right direction (4, Informative)

Spheniscus (25749) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388066)

You can navigate to the parent folder at lest four different ways:

1. Command-click (or right click) on the folder name in the title of the window.
2. Press command-up (or select Go/Enclosing Folder from the menu)
3. Turn on the Path Bar (view / show path bar)
4. Customize the toolbar and add the path button to the toolbar

Re:right direction (1)

ZorinLynx (31751) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388082)

Add the "parent folders" button to your Finder's button bar. It's the one that looks like a down arrow with three horizontal offset lines to the left of it.

If you end up in a rooted folder, just click it and navigate to the parent. *wham*, you get the whole path.

A minor annoyance, and definitely not a reason to not upgrade. o.O

Re:right direction (1)

Hes Nikke (237581) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388290)

At least you can quickly navigate further up in the tree. Windows otoh obstacles things just a little more with it's rooting behavior for My Documents. I'll take apples rooting behavior any day of the week. Including Tuednesdays.

Re:right direction (1)

kwerle (39371) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387958)

It is a lame workaround, but you can ctrl-click (right mouse, I guess) on the name of the folder at the top of the finder window to see all it's ancestor directories.

Still some oddities (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387650)

Although 10.5.2 introduced support for additional dSLRs, such as the Nikon D3 and D300, apparently there's still an issue preventing (at least some) Aperture users from viewing these cameras' RAW files. Really odd since iPhoto and Preview display them just fine now - but not Apple's "pro" app.

MIA: Tiger's split Terminal window (3, Insightful)

tomRakewell (412572) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387672)

I had just discovered the awesome 'split' feature in Tiger's Terminal about two months ago. Click on the icon in the upper right portion of the terminal window, and a bar appears. You can drag the bar to split your terminal in two. The upper portion is the scrollback, and shows your terminal history. The bottom portion is your 'live' terminal. It's awesome, and it saves me from having to open two different terminals in many cases!

Of course, after upgrading to Leopard, this innovative feature has been removed! I couldn't believe it!

Now I'm back to opening up two Terminal windows... :(

Re:MIA: Tiger's split Terminal window (3, Informative)

BlacKat (114545) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387718)

Just copy Terminal.app from Tiger and run it on Leopard.

Trust me, it works great, especially in conjunction with Visor, which provides a "Quake like" terminal window that pops down from the top of the screen.

Re:MIA: Tiger's split Terminal window (2, Informative)

AntEater (16627) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387834)

"Now I'm back to opening up two Terminal windows..."

You have a couple of other options. Leopard's Terminal lets you use tabs. That's not quite as nice but it saves you some screen real estate. Another option (my favourite) is to use GNU Screen in a single terminal. This gives you multiple tabs and the ability to split the screen in two (or more) windows within the terminal and use those windows for any combination of terminal sessions you want. Ten or fifteen minutes of learning gives you an incredibly useful tool at your disposal. Screen is included with OS X and most Linux distributions.

Re:MIA: Tiger's split Terminal window (1)

rbanffy (584143) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388008)

What I like most about screen is the ability to detach from the screen session, log on from another location and summon back whatever I was doing in the terminal before.

Just do a screen -x and get back right where you were.

Re:MIA: Tiger's split Terminal window (1)

russellh (547685) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387944)

well, at least it does tabs. and you could use "screen" to split the terminal window if you really need to, but it won't replicate Tiger's split-window feature exactly.

Reboot loop (1)

Chilled_Fuser (463582) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387770)

I wouldn't install this tonight. My new MBP is stuck in a reboot loop.

My Anecdote (1)

djdavetrouble (442175) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388298)

My Dual G5 took hella long to update, but is definitely a bit snappier now.

Any New drivers in it for hardware that is not out (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387828)

Re:Any New drivers in it for hardware that is not (4, Informative)

Christopher Rogers (873720) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388056)

Once you install 10.5.2 another update becomes available that updates various video drivers. Some animations seem "snappier" now, particularly Expose and Spaces.

The best way to describe this update (5, Insightful)

jht (5006) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387870)

This is like SP1 in Windows land. Basically, 10.5 is the GM, 10.5.1 is where they fix other things that emerged in the several weeks between GM and public availability (along with a couple of critical bugs that turn up in the first few days of wider public release), and then 10.5.2 is the first release based on public feedback and issues. That's also part of why this version enables you to turn off the menubar translucency (and makes the menus themselves more opaque) - users hated it so Apple tweaked things for them.

Windows is freakin' huge - hence the year to Vista SP1 - but Microsoft's releases also go much wider, have more hardware to test with, and have more public pre-release cycles as well. So it takes them a year to do a service pack, where Apple only takes about 3-4 months.

You mean it installs Windows XP? (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 6 years ago | (#22387950)

I kid! I kid!

Apple Maintains its Godlike Status!!! OMG! (-1, Troll)

rueger (210566) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388072)

Yes, I read TFA!! And WOW! What amazing upgrades!!!

1) The return of hierarchical Dock menus!!! In Panther and Tiger, you could place a folder in the Dock and then navigate that folders contents right there in the folders own hierarchical menu!!! OMG! OMG!

2) The return of a Non-transparent menu bar!!!! Yes! A checkbox so that your menu bar won't be transparent!!! OMG! OMG!

3) And, and, and!!! A Time Machine menu-bar indicator!!! OMG! OMG!

That's it, I'm going out TOMORROW to buy Leopard for my Powerbook! I am SO excited by these amazing innovative changes!!!!

OMfuckingG!!!!! I just wet myself I'[m so EXCITED!

How about fixing Finder? (3, Insightful)

argent (18001) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388122)

* Restore the ability to have folders remember their views.
* Run each Finder window in a separate process, so it doesn't lock everything up when one window gets busy. Particularly when hitting network shares.
* Restore the pre OSX "staggered" icon layout option.
* Give us an option to completely eliminate the sidebar without having to go back to "spacial" windows.
* Move the "FTP" support from Finder to Safari, so we don't have the overhead and security issues of file-system-like operations when accessing remote high-latency servers.
* Bring back the Shelf from NeXTSTeP.
* Add "Cut" as well as "Copy". There's a "Cut" option in the edit menu but it's always greyed out. If there's some obscure option key that will enable this, well...
* Make it OBVIOUS when there's an option/command click 'advanced' operation, instead of making us guess. And that goes for the rest of the software on the Mac.

Re:How about fixing Finder? (1)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388354)

Are there any Shelf features that are still missing from the Dock?

Send window to back? please? (1)

forty-2 (145915) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388328)

Yeah yeah, off-topic, go on, I know you want to, I've been missing this ever since I switched from linux ~5 years ago. I've given up the ghost on "sloppy focus follows mouse / click to raise" but I'd pay real money for a right click on the title bar to send a window to the back of the stack. Has anyone come across this? I've been searching for years to no avail.

Secure Empty Trash (1)

themadplasterer (931983) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388366)

is still broken, a single file in the trash being deleted still results in a file count of 11 or 9 files being securely deleted. I'll have to stick to Permanent Eraser [edenwaith.com] for a while longer it seems. You'd figure Apple would have dealt with this by now.

Bah (4, Insightful)

adamruck (638131) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388382)

I administer an apple x server at work, and I haven't been impressed.

I'm running ubuntu on a PC, so I can't use the server admin, or workgroup manager tools. Also, apple doesn't come with a standard VNC server, instead it uses VNC with some proprietary shit built in, so I had to install vine server to get a remote desktop. Of course, vine server sucks as well, because I can't get it to start on boot, without logging into the server with either the native server admin tools, or locally with a KVM. Oh wait, the X Serve doesn't play nice with a standard KVM. I have an extra mouse and keyboard setting in my rack just for the X Serve.

Once you manage to get in the damn thing, if you have any sort of complicated setup at all, you simply CAN'T DO it using the server admin tool. I've usually had to bust into the config files just like any other Unix system. Take a look at the SQL section of the Server Admin tool, its a fucking joke. Also, even if you do start to do some things by hand, shit still doesn't work right.

See one of my bug reports here.

http://macosx.com/forums/mac-os-x-server/298314-samba-shares-hfs-extended-attributes.html [macosx.com]

The mailing list / blog / colander stuff is also less than impressive. Why the FUCK should I have to wait 15 minutes for my changes to take affect. It this 1982 or some shit? Some changes seem to take much longer than that as well. I waited a whole day for one of my groups to show up. Why is it that the "recent changes" section of each group shows group emails, even if I turn the mailing list feature off?

Oh yeah, last but not least, the server crashes. It responds to pings, still responds to local terminal input, but anything that requires authentication is dead in the water. So that leaves mail, netbios, ssh, server admin, work group manager, etc etc all dead. I think the LDAP server is crapping out, but I haven't been able to prove it yet. I've had to hard boot the server half a dozen times in the last two weeks.

My last rant. WHAT THE FUCK IS WITH THE QUICK TIME UPDATES, AND THE REQUIRED RESTARTS. Jesus christ, it's like I'm working with windows NT.

Why no charge for new features? (1, Offtopic)

JHromadka (88188) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388454)

Where's the Sarbox excuse? Apple adds new features and doesn't charge for the update? It sucks that my girlfriend has to pay 20 bucks to unlock those new features on the iPod touch she got for Christmas.

Update the update (1)

BRSloth (578824) | more than 6 years ago | (#22388456)

As someone pointed somewhere else (sorry, I have several Mac things, since I'm a new Mac user), there is an Graphics Update update after you upgrade the system. Just in case, open the software update again and check if there is something new.
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