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Toshiba Making Funeral Plans for HD DVD

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the cue-taps dept.

Movies 452

Blue Light Special writes "With HD DVD on life support, Toshiba is reportedly preparing to bow to the inevitable and allow HD DVD to expire quietly. 'While denying that a decision on the fate of HD DVD has been made, a Toshiba marketing exec left the door wide open. "Given the market developments in the past month, Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players," Jodi Sally, VP of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products, said.'" A few folks have also noted that Wal-mart is joining the Blu-ray train, further lowering the stock of HD DVD.

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452 comments

Congrats to those who bought into that crap :) (-1, Redundant)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#22436924)

And first post?

Re:Congrats to those who bought into that crap :) (2, Insightful)

Divebus (860563) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437702)

That's one down. Now we just need to decommission the VC-1 codec that snuck in the back door of Blu-ray. Don't need it.

That's a Shame (5, Interesting)

thesaint05 (850634) | more than 6 years ago | (#22436934)

HD-DVD was cheaper for both players and movies, but I'm glad the format war is officially over. Especially with wal-mart throwing their (considerable) weight behind BD. I just can't stand the fact that Sony won. Oh well. I'm still not buying a BD player until they get sub-$200.

Re:That's a Shame (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22436976)

Down with Microsoft!

Re:That's a Shame (1)

mcsqueak (1043736) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437024)

Oh well. I'm still not buying a BD player until they get sub-$200

Well, hopefully with only one format (and everyone who wants HD buying this one format) economies of scale will kick in and lower the price significantly.

Re:That's a Shame (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437264)

Don't count on it. Now there isn't a reason to lower the cost of bluray players. Expect them to remain about the same price til next year.

Re:That's a Shame (4, Interesting)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437386)

That's the "nice" thing about the different BD profiles--the manufacturers get to keep "updating" their player lines while keeping the price the same. This year at CES, they updated the players to profile 1.1, but kept the list prices the same. Next year, they'll update the players to profile 2.0, and the prices will stay the same (they might come down 50 bucks or so). I'm waiting for a sub-$200 profile 2.0 BD player, too, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re:That's a Shame (2, Interesting)

mcsqueak (1043736) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437430)

This year at CES, they updated the players to profile 1.1, but kept the list prices the same.

Ah yes, I had forgotten about that bit. I'm sure they'll lower the price on the "older" versions... then the suckers who buy those won't be able to see the special features or whatever in the discs released after that point. Nice way to treat your customers I say.

Re:That's a Shame (2, Insightful)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437670)

Now there isn't a reason to lower the cost of bluray players.
Yes there is. Though many (but not all) overlooked it in favour of the more interesting Blu-Ray/HD-DVD rivalry, both players were fighting a bigger rival- existing DVD players and public apathy.

DVD became a runaway success because (a) it was cheap, and (b) it gave noticable picture-quality improvements and other advantages that could be enjoyed with existing setups.

Blu-Ray is not only relatively expensive, but it requires an HD set to make it worthwhile. Even those with HD sets could stick with upscaling DVD players. (*) And I suspect there are a significant proportion of people who rushed out and bought HD because it was the latest thing and they could boast about it to their friends, and haven't noticed that the picture from their $30 DVD player connected via the composite cable actually sucks :)

(*) In fact, it's a theory of mine that with improvements in dynamic image-processing technology (more than just upscaling), the picture quality from existing DVDs could be *far* improved. What I have in mind would require some fairly powerful chips doing intelligent analysis over multiple frames, and the cost would probably be horrendous at present- but I could see that changing. Then again, by the time that happens, Blu-Ray or some other HD rival will probably be established anyway. (OTOH, the same techniques could possibly be applied to HD sources to make them better *still*, so it might be worth pursuing anyway).

Re:That's a Shame (3, Interesting)

RetardsForRonPaul (1175873) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437110)

Unfortunately the lower cost never really materialized. All of the "combo discs" were more expensive than their Blu Ray counterparts. I never understood the point of those discs anyways. And Blu Ray was on "sale" for a long time. I have to wonder if Sony lost a bunch of money subsidizing costs just to get a foothold. That said, Sony and the rest of the BD consortium can go die in a fire. I'm not buying their crippled, DRM laden discs. I'm sick of being treated like a theif, when all I want is reasonably priced HD content. The music industry is slowly coming around, yet the movie industry is steadfast. If they want to treat me like a theif (no managed copy, region encoding, BD+, etc.) then I'll just steal their movies. The interactivity in HD-DVD always rocked. Transformers is an amazing disc. One of the few I own. BD is still catching up in that regard. It kills me, though, since I'm about over the 360, and really want a PS3 as a gaming platform.

Re:That's a Shame (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437350)

In a few years you might not have a choice if you are a movie buyer. As soon the format war is over then the next push will be to stop making regular DVDs. I have a PS3 and I'm more than happy with watching regular DVDs via my PS3 on my HDTV instead of go out and buy/rent Blu-Ray Discs just to get a "better" experience. But they want our money.

Re:That's a Shame (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437382)

I never understood the point of those discs anyways.
For me at least, those were a bit of a gamble at future proofing. I have an HDTV already, but haven't bought an HD disc player yet. So, when I buy movies I need a DVD version. If I was already out buying the movie on DVD, then I figured I may as well plunk down the extra $5 and get it in a combo format, so that IF I ever ended up getting an HD DVD player, then I wouldn't have to repurchase that movie. If HD DVD looses out and BD wins (which has happened), then I would still have the regular DVD side of the disc to play on that player. So the addtional cost over a regular DVD was a gamble to see if maybe I could avoid having to replace my DVD's when the time came. It was a failed gamble, but that was a known possibility from the start. Hell I might still get an HD DVD player anyways. I still haven't bought "The 300", and Wal-mart has a player with a bundled copy for $148 right now. The movie alone in HD is worth $30, so that's not too bad a price, especially when I already have a handful of combo discs anyways.

Re:That's a Shame (1, Flamebait)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437524)

Amen brother.

I also will not be Buying a Blu Ray player, ever.

I WILL buy a blu Ray pc drive and a new upgrade to AnyDVD. you see my HDTV set is too old to have HDCP, blu Ray players will not output 720p,1080i on component output on discs that have the copy protection flag set. This happens to be almost all the discs available. so my only recourse is to take the blu Ray disc, CRACK it and re-encode the disc to a more compatible DivxHD format I can play on my media center PC that display's 1080i perfectly.

funny part is there are LOTS of people like me out there, their set is not hdcp compatible and therefore cant use bluRay to watch most HD content.

what I get a kick out of is the big box stores "demoing" BluRay on all their sets. it is in 480p because they use a component distribution amp to send the signal from the player to all the sets. It's the same screwup as when those places demoed SACD players back in the day on shitty $199.00 yamaha home stereo setups.

BTW: I have a Zenith DVD player that upscales incredibly on Component and DVI to 1080i ot the point that many people that have seen a good blu ray disc cant tell the difference on my set. they say "you bought bluray? that looks great!" nope... it's plain old DVD with a decent scaler.

Re:That's a Shame (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437616)

BTW: I have a Zenith DVD player that upscales incredibly on Component and DVI to 1080i ot the point that many people that have seen a good blu ray disc cant tell the difference on my set. they say "you bought bluray? that looks great!" nope... it's plain old DVD with a decent scaler.
I think you will find that in order to see a grand difference, I think you need two things for a film to look better: 1) a 1080p set and 2) a big enough TV to notice. What you will gain is details, but most people will never notice the details difference at a typical viewing range on a standard set. I watch about 10 feet from a 42" HDTV and I must say that in order for me to pick up detail changes it would need to be at least two to three feet closer to me.

Poor execution (2, Interesting)

TheAxeMaster (762000) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437546)

They should have pushed the combo discs harder via advertising. I think people would have taken to the idea that they could buy a combo disc (for the same price as a standard HD DVD, eat a little profit there guys) and use it in their DVD player right now and in their HD DVD player when they were cheap enough (like now). But few people knew about them or what they were and they were rarely on the shelves. They made several marketing errors with the format (no v2 xbox360 with HD DVD built in being another) and chose to try to sell it on the definition alone, which wasn't a strength over the BD setup. No region encoding? Awesome.
 
I really only want documentaries in HD (planet earth) so I don't much care about HD yet and I'm saddened that I'll have to buy some crippled format if I ever want the content. But for me, Blu Ray = Vista, I'll skip it if I can.

Re:That's a Shame (1)

fullmetal55 (698310) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437366)

well considering that bluray isn't solely controlled or developped by sony yes, Sony won, just like they did with CDs, Playstation (2). everyone has a hate-on for sony in this argument ignoring the many others who had a hand in creating bluray. rather than Toshiba/MS's HD-DVD. to buy an HD-DVD player you had to buy toshiba, go blu, you can go sony, panasonic, samsung, LG, etc. etc. etc.

Re:That's a Shame (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437438)

Samsung and LG also make HD DVD players.

Re:That's a Shame (0, Redundant)

Lord Apathy (584315) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437614)

Well I wouldn't call it officially over yet. But I think we can safely say the fat lady is out of the bullpit, upon stage, and the band is warming up. It really sticks in my craw too that Sony won this one but at least we have another excuse to buy a PS3. Once they reach a sane price that is.

Re:That's a Shame (1)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437636)

I wish the "war" kept going because now it will take that much longer for a PROPER "next-gen" format (high-capacity flash cards) to take over. A big honkin DVD (even high capacity) is still way worse than a more durable, smaller medium. In not too long I think people will, instead of taking a DVD booklet to a friend's, will just grab a handful of 32-Gb SD cards, each with an HD movie or two. It would be so much more convenient (compare taking a bunch of Xbox games with you vs. a bunch of DS games).

Re:That's a Shame (1)

Like2Byte (542992) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437806)

Yeah, I was shopping around for a new TV and couldn't decide to go DB or HD. I saw the prices of the players and thought, "Way too much."

Then, as I was passing the Games section I noticed the PS3 consoles. It had BD. It was $40 more than the player alone.

TRIFECTA!!

1080i HD TV - Check
BD player - Check
PS3 Games - Check

Sitting in my underwear at 2am playing Motorstorm 2 - Priceless!

Re:That's a Shame (1)

Ngarrang (1023425) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437808)

HD-DVD was cheaper for both players and movies, but I'm glad the format war is officially over. Especially with wal-mart throwing their (considerable) weight behind BD. I just can't stand the fact that Sony won. Oh well. I'm still not buying a BD player until they get sub-$200.
They were only cheaper because Toshiba was trying to win the standard via a price war, but not enough people bought them, even at half the price.

Blu ray drive at Frys: $180 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22436990)

If you go to Fry's this weekend, you can get a blu ray reader for ~$180.

HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (2, Insightful)

molex333 (1230136) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437006)

Betamax,Laser Disc,Minidisc, DIVX rentals, and now HD DVD. When will tech companies learn that everyone wants one standard and that these wars usually end poorly for someone. You would think that by now they would learn to all cooperate and back one product, thus making it cheaper for the consumer and getting thier product into more households.

betamax, minidisc, 8-track (4, Funny)

irtza (893217) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437046)

Wasn't Sony on the wrong side of all these battles? What gives? Sony may actually win a standards war? What's next, other companies will use memory stick?

Re:HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (2, Insightful)

Beau6183 (899597) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437062)

Without competing standards new innovations and price wars would never happen. Wars like these are only to the benefit of the consumer...

Re:HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437580)

Except those who, you know, bought into the losing format.

Re:HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437164)

Uh, this is a pretty ignorant comment I must say. I'm sure they didn't set themselves up for a war purely to have a war. Sony thought they had the standard everyone should support, and so did Toshiba. At first, support was split about half and half. I don't blame either of the companies for developing a standard they thought should be embraced.

Basically, Toshiba did just what you said - but Sony didn't want to back it. Sony did just what you said - but Toshiba didn't want to back it. Kind of hard to tell two giants with great plans (and both are great formats) that the other team's format is better.

Re:HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (2, Insightful)

molex333 (1230136) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437292)

I don't think my comment is ignorant. Think of all the people who spent thier hard earned money on an HD DVD player that is going to now become an expensive paperweight. Toshiba and sony could have gotten together and developed a standard that probably would have been better than the two available options now. My comment centers around the fact that companies can share information and create standards and still make a substantial amount of money and not have to confuse the general consumer. The prices would be lowered not by a price war but by the competition of multiple companies making the hardware. If all the hardware companies are given one standard the can decrease the manufacturing costs involved. When there are two competing standards, less units of each are made, thus increasing the cost per unit.

Re:HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437436)

Think of all the people who spent thier hard earned money on an HD DVD player that is going to now become an expensive paperweight.
This is a known risk every early adopter makes, whether they accept it or not.

Re:HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437490)

That's the price of being an early adopter. Thanks for playing.

Re:HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437218)

When will tech companies learn that everyone wants one standard and that these wars usually end poorly for someone. You would think that by now they would learn to all cooperate and back one product,
I guess this is one of those inverse Occam's razor moments, don't mistake ignorance for lusting after a bigger piece of the pie.

Re:HD DVD joins Betamax in tech hell! (2, Interesting)

cyber-dragon.net (899244) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437740)

This war was not about consumers, it had nothing to do with people in any way. It was about licensing fees. MS wanted to secure it's hold on MPAA DRM contracts (see Netflix explanation on why they can't offer Linux or Mac streaming yet to understand this) and Sony wanted to increase PS3 sales and ensure their home theatre setups did not get encroached on by Toshiba.

On top of that the per disk money Sony and/or Microsoft gets for the "interactive" portions.

This was a war about money and control, the consumer had nothing to do with it except as an afterthought in trying to figure out how to market one particular version of DRMd crap over another.

You forget the driving factor... companies do not care about the consumer any more, the fact they need consumers is unfortunate in their eyes. Large corporations have not cared about the individual consumer over the all mighty dollar for decades. They care about the consumer and their employees only enough to be efficient on the bottom line. Bad PR means less revenue. There are entire JOBS where people are payed to research this balance of "how badly can we screw people and still have them buy our stuff"

All the people who shop at Circuit City, Best Buy etc instead of mom and pop shops caused this. All you have to do is get into those stores, and only megacorps can, and you are golden. Consumers have never learned to control the corps, which despite what they may think IS possible. See above paragraph on people who are payed to deal with balancing PR. It is YOUR responsibility to force companies to do what you want by voting with your money. If your beliefs aren't worth not owning a copy of some DVD well they weren't very strongly held.

At least it's over... (4, Interesting)

framauro13 (1148721) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437010)

Had I not received a PS3 as a gift, I probably would have went HD DVD. But given the circumstances, I'm glad (and suprised) that the choice will eventually only be one single format.

Hopefully I'll soon be able to get all of my favorite movies in high definition, not just the particular ones owned by production companies who signed specific format deals.

A lot of people won't be happy about it, but I've gotta admit I'm impressed with how Sony marketing pulled this off. I definitely didn't see it ending this way.

Re:At least it's over... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437152)

A lot of people won't be happy about it, but I've gotta admit I'm impressed with how Sony marketing pulled this off. I definitely didn't see it ending this way.


And now that the war IS over, this could do a lot to push PS3s into other peoples hands.

Re:At least it's over... (2, Informative)

BobZee1 (1065450) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437168)

...probably would have went HD DVD? Why? I always looked at the specs and could never understand the draw of HD DVD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_formats#Technical_details/ [wikipedia.org]

Re:At least it's over... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437700)

A few things to note about that chart: HD DVD has more things as mandatory requirements - Blu-ray has a lot that are optional. This makes for a firmer spec with fewer compatibility issues. BD does have a few things going for it; namely the larger capacity, hard-coating, and higher bitrates. The hardcoating is required because the data layer is on the bottom surface of the disc - without it the discs wouldn't last long at all. HD DVD has the data layer in the middle of the disc, the same as standard DVD. As for the higher bitrates, remember that when BD was first being developed, they only intended to use MPEG-2 encoding, which necessitated the higher bitrates (and larger capacity). It wasn't until the HD DVD association made public their plans to use three different codecs that the BD association added them, too. If you're using AVC or VC1, the higher bitrates aren't essential. Sure, it's nice to have the headroom, but it's not completely necessary if you're paying attention to your encode process. So, basically, it boils down to storage capacity as the primary winner. And yes, as a data storage medium, it's nice. As a consumer video format, though, BD leaves a lot to be desired.

Re:At least it's over... (1)

framauro13 (1148721) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437784)

For me it would have been a simple choice based on price. HD DVD players were cheaper, so I would have went that route.

Specs might not have been the best with HD DVD, but it fit into my budget a lot better. I definitely can't argue with free though.

Re:At least it's over... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437224)

"A lot of people won't be happy about it, but I've gotta admit I'm impressed with how Sony marketing pulled this off. I definitely didn't see it ending this way."

Are you for real?

Sony marketing 'pulled this off'?

This is the long fought victory of BDA - BluRay Disc Association. A very large and wide ranging group of hardware companies all backing the BluRay standard:

http://www.blu-ray.com/info/ [blu-ray.com]

HD-DVD never had any plausible chance of viability in the market. It would have died much sooner if Microsoft hadn't stepped in and used it in a failed attempt to sabotage HD movie formats in order to try to lead consumers towards their own unsuccessful movie download service.

Re:At least it's over... (1)

cgfsd (1238866) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437274)

All we have to do now is wait a year for the BluRay players to catch up with features of the HD-DVD players. Make sense, right?

Stick a fork in it (1)

wiredog (43288) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437020)

It's done. I guess Sony had to have a successful format eventually.

You mean like CD and Betacam? (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437068)

I guess Sony had to have a successful format eventually.
The ubiquitous Compact Disc Digital Audio format was developed by Sony and Philips. The variants of Sony's Betacam format (not Betamax) have enjoyed long periods of success in the broadcast industry. And the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 video game formats outsold their contemporary competition.

Re:You mean like CD and Betacam? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437296)

Sony also invented VHS but sold it to JVC after they came up with the superior Betamax format.

Re:You mean like CD and Betacam? (0, Flamebait)

jon3k (691256) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437406)

I guess we'll just ignore the fact that beta was a direct competitor to VHS and just mention it's mighty success in the broadcast arena? Or would you rather discuss minidisc?

Re:You mean like CD and Betacam? ...and more. (1)

sdsucks (1161899) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437422)

MD was and is used often in Broadcasting.

Others:
3.5" Floppies
SPDIF
DAT
8mm video (Video8)
SACD
Various DV formats (often used in Broadcast, again)

I'd say all of the above saw reasonable success.

They've had their fair share of miserable failures as well.

Re:You mean like CD and Betacam? (1)

Anubis350 (772791) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437456)

yah, there's a reason everyone called a portable cd player a "discman" when it was sony's brand name. They could have pulled it off with mp3 I think too, had they not crippled all the devices because of Sony's media arm.

PS3 now viewed as "more attractive"? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437026)

So, since the format war is over, does this mean the PS3, with a bundled Blu-Ray drive, has more to recommend it in the market place?

Especially since the "fear and doubt" of buying an obsolete format, are no longer hanging over it?

Re:PS3 now viewed as "more attractive"? (3, Funny)

Chyeld (713439) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437586)

Actually what it means is we'll be seeing a press announcement in the next few months that the latest revision of the PS3 will be dropping the bundled Blu-Ray drive and moving to DVD drives as a cost cutting measure. The expected drop in price will be $20 and those who want to purchase an add-on drive can do so for $300.

The add-on will be a complete blu-ray player but can only output to the PS3, which will then pass the signal along to the display.

Funeral Plans? (2, Funny)

pavon (30274) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437030)

So does that involve excess stock being quietly disposed of in an Alamagordo, NM landfill?

They never had a chance (3, Funny)

Amorymeltzer (1213818) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437052)

Their competition is called Blu-Ray. It's shorter to say, it has the word "Ray" in it (which is awesome), sounds new and different from DVDs, and even has a "cool" misspelling of a word. It's the same reason Yahoo! will never succeed - people simply like saying "Google" too much.

Re:They never had a chance (2, Informative)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437240)

As silly as what the you said may sound, its would actually make a lot of sense for something as simple as an outrageous/uncommon name might be a key factor of success. However, I also have a slight notion that the tables might possibly have been turned if only the xbox360 had come standard with HD-DVD as the PS3 did with blu ray. In this stage its all a guessing game, whats done is done. Honestly until we $100 blu ray players at walmart, and blu-ray movies that don't cost 50-75% more than their DVD counterparts, the pickup will be extremely slow even as it becomes possibly the definite standard for high def movies.

And HD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437550)

When both formats were introduced, I heard and read many times that HD-DVD had the better name because consummers could instantly grasp which format was in HD.

Ew... (2, Insightful)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437054)

Does that mean Sony now rules what will probably become the next main data format? The world just began sucking a lot more.

Oh well, I'm not all that interested until the players (and the televisions) drop to a reasonable price. Oh, and easy-to-do piracy is another must on my list! ;)

Re:Ew... (4, Informative)

samkass (174571) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437248)

Does that mean Sony now rules what will probably become the next main data format?

Not really. Sony isn't even the majority patent holder in Blu-ray, they're just the most visible proponent of the format and have sold a few million of the players.

Re:Ew... (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437738)

they're just the most visible proponent of the format and have sold a few million of the players.
Ten million this week, actually. Say what you want, but sacrificing most of the poularity of the PlayStation brand they pretty much singlehandedly delivered that one. Ten million Blu-Ray players are great, but I can't see them satisfied with the market share of 20% in next-gen consoles. This week the numbers are completely into la-la land for Wii selling 450000 units and more than three times the 360 sales, but even in a normal week Wii > PS3+360. And it's still Nintendo maxing their capacity (1.8mio/4 = 450k/week), god knows how many they could sell...

Re:Ew... (1)

qoncept (599709) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437606)

Optical storage's days are numbered. Flash memory and fast internet connections are making it worthless. I see On Demand or Pay Per View or whatever you want to call it as the way movies will be watched in 5 years. Someone (not Apple) will take what NetFlix does and do it right.

So Much For The Zonk Anti-Sony/BluRay FUD Barrage (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437076)

Too bad that Slashdot has turned into effectively an informercial site for companies like Apple or a FUD spreader for companies like Toshiba/Microsoft for the dead HD-DVD format with sleazy editors like Zonk.

Don't say you weren't warned long about about HD-DVD. You have no one but yourself to blame if you are stuck with hundreds to thousands of dollars on a dead format.

Re:So Much For The Zonk Anti-Sony/BluRay FUD Barra (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437258)

You know, it's not really that bad of a deal right now anyway. HD-DVD players are cheap. And you get free movies with them through the end of the month. If you time it right, you could get enough in free movies/money to honestly make it where what you really buy is an upscaling DVD player, that doesn't have to upscale every movie, for basically free (counting the value of the movies). My dad bought an HD-DVD player at christmas time (I bought one in November), and the way he looks at it (since he got 10 movies free), is basically free DVD player that does upconversion. I think this is how Toshiba could get rid of the rest of them. Stop doing combo discs and just tout features that won't go away anytime soon.

Re:So Much For The Zonk Anti-Sony/BluRay FUD Barra (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437266)

Too bad that Slashdot has turned into effectively an informercial site for companies like Apple or a FUD spreader for companies like Toshiba/Microsoft for the dead HD-DVD format with sleazy editors like Zonk.

Don't say you weren't warned long about about HD-DVD. You have no one but yourself to blame if you are stuck with hundreds to thousands of dollars on a dead format.



It's not our fault the wrong format appears to be winning...

Looks like Sony's gamble paid off. (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437126)

Packing the PS3 with a blu-ray drive did pay off. It was probably the main reason that Blu-Ray won out - none of the other Blu-Ray players have had much chance in market penetration.

The only thing that bugs me about this development is that it's a Sony product and I don't like supporting Sony's attempts to lock their users into their products. Then again, I also believe that Sony will only have a few years of profiting from being the next-gen DVD standard - downloadable content should slowly take over within the next few years. There's the problem of net neutrality that could throw a wrench in that, but I'm still hoping that this will be resolved in favor of net neutrality.

Re:Looks like Sony's gamble paid off. (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437360)

Then again, I also believe that Sony will only have a few years of profiting from being the next-gen DVD standard - downloadable content should slowly take over within the next few years.
In the market space Blu-Ray is in? I doubt it, those 50GB discs are a broadband killer and I think they just bought themselves more time on top of the DVD, which hasn't been significantly threatened either....

Re:Looks like Sony's gamble paid off. (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437828)

I doubt that online movies will clock in at 50GB. Right now, most people I know don't even know what Hi-Def actually looks like... my girlfriend is convinced that shows "Girls Next Door" are Hi-Def because her TV is able to do 480P. Nevermind what the signal is, nor what the compression is (and DirecTV compression can be ugly).

I expect movie downloads will be like mp3s: everybody knows that there is better quality out there, but only a few audio/video-philes really care. The massive convenience of not having to rip movies and being able to download them straight from any internet connection will outweigh the higher quality of a 50GB high-def copy.

Once FIOS becomes more widespread, services like Netflix on demand and iTunes video will explode. At least for as long as broadband access will stay unfettered.

Re:Looks like Sony's gamble paid off. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437514)

The only thing that bugs me about this development is that it's a Sony product and I don't like supporting Sony's attempts to lock their users into their products.


Actually, Sony seems to have learned it lesson for the most part.

Their Digital SLRs accept industry standard CF, and even the PS3 accepts standard USB drives and Memory cards to back up media/saved games (not to mention standard 2.5" SATA drives that are user serviceable).

MS in contrast has decided to hose people for proprietary memory cards, and hard drive upgrades.

Re:Looks like Sony's gamble paid off. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437562)

Downloadable content will not come anywhere near taking over from DVD and Blu-Ray until and unless they get broadband to be significantly faster than it is now. They'll need to lay fatter pipes in urban areas and much better broadband (probably some sort of wireless, actually) in the less populated areas.

I'm glad blu ray has won (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437130)

I'm glad blu ray has won.

My point of view: I don't watch movies. I don't even own a television. What format is better for movies and TV doesn't matter to me.

What does matter for me, however, is being able to use a re-writable form of the media for making backups. HD-DVD only offered 15 gigabytes of storage; Blu-Ray offers 25 gigabytes of storage.

Now that a format is decided on, economies of scale can kick in and, in a few years, blu-ray blank media will be as cheap as DVD media is right now (I just bought 100 DVD blanks for under $23 at a two-for-one loss leader sale at CostCo; I remember, five years ago, when DVD blanks were $3 or more per disk at the same time CDR blanks were 30 cents a disk).

Hey guys (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437146)

Hey Faggots,

My name is John, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are fat, retarded, no-lifes who spend every second of their day looking at stupid ass pictures. You are everything bad in the world. Honestly, have any of you ever gotten any pussy? I mean, I guess it's fun making fun of people because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than jerking off to pictures on facebook.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. I'm pretty much perfect. I was captain of the football team, and starter on my basketball team. What sports do you play, other than "jack off to naked drawn japanese people"? I also get straight A's, and have a banging hot girlfriend (She just blew me; Shit was SO cash). You are all faggots who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.

Re:Hey guys (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437628)

"But there is one condition for this work."

"Alright."

"I'd like you to tell me that Rukia is cuter than Orihime"

"...but that's a lie... it's a lie, I cannot say it."

[long pause]

"When can we begin to drill?"

"Right away."

"How long will it take to bring in the well?"

"Should be very quick."

"I would like a one hundred thousand dollar signing bonus plus the five that is owed with interest."

"That's only fair.

"Rukia is cuter than Orihime. If that's what you believe, then I will say it."

"Say it like you mean it."

"Daniel..."

"Say it like it's your sermon."

"This is foolish. ...[long pause]... "Rukia is cuter than Orihime! Rukia is cuter than Orihime! Rukia is cuter than Orihime! Rukia is cuter than Orihime!!!"

Myself? (1)

AdamReyher (862525) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437158)

I Sony just as much as the next guy who's actually informed about the industry. Don't get me wrong, Sony makes good products. But Sony's business practices combined with their utter disregard for any other technology out there makes me hate them with an utter passion.

I still own several Sony products. Why? Because when I bought them, they were by far the best product out there at the time.

What really ticks me about this is that Blu-ray was not a better format. The only advantage to it is the storage capacity. HD DVD typically had a better picture, better contrast, better compression, better sound quality, and a cheaper method of production. HD DVD was a better format. If Blu-ray was better in these areas, I'd stand behind it immediately.

And THAT'S why this whole thing sucks. The superior product lost.

Re:Myself? (5, Informative)

samkass (174571) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437314)

HD DVD typically had a better picture, better contrast, better compression, better sound quality, and a cheaper method of production.

Actually, the truth is pretty much the opposite of this statement. Because Blu-ray had 50% more bandwidth, it could be compressed less, and since it supported exactly the same video codecs as HD DVD that's all that really matters. Although some of the audio codecs are optional on Blu-ray that are mandatory on HD DVD, when present Blu-ray requires greater bandwidth for those, too, leading to better fidelity.

Yes, HD DVD were cheaper to produce, but the discs cost the same to the consumer. (And much less $ per megabyte, which matters for the geeks out there who will use it in their computers.)

Re:Myself? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437376)

"their utter disregard for any other technology out there makes me hate them with an utter passion. "

Let's see.

Sony's PS3, one of the best BluRay players right now, lets you:

* Swap in any company's off the shelf laptop drive into the system. Gives instructions how to right in the manual and on their webpages

* Use any USB keyboard you want with the console

* Use any USB mouse you want with the console

* Use any USB headset you want with the console

* Install any operating system you want on the console

* Works with any standard DLNA compliant computing device

Yep, clearly Sony once again demonstrates their "disdain for competiting tech"...

"And THAT'S why this whole thing sucks. The superior product lost."

And that is why HD-DVD failed. A technologically inferior format that was being pushed by Toshiba to try to continue their DVD royalties whose only supporters were Microsoft - who was doing so only to try to derail all HD movie formats - and clueless teenage console fanboys.

Re:Myself? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437816)

You forgot

* Use standard USB drives to back up Movies, Music, Pictures and Saved games.

* Use Standard Bluetooth Headsets with the console.

* Use Standard Bluetooth Keyboards with the console.

* Use standard Bluetooth Mice with the console.

* MS's other major reason for backing HD-DVD: So they could try to stall out PS3 adoption, since Sony had announced they were including a Blu-Ray drive in the PS3.

Re:Myself? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437440)

"Sony makes good products."

Sony USED TO make good products.

Fixed that for you.

We all know that their non-professional level stuff has sucked for many years now.

Am I the only one? (4, Insightful)

Conspiracy_Of_Doves (236787) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437160)

Am I the only one who doesn't give a damn one way or the other?

At least Blu-Ray rolls off the tounge easier. And yes, I'm convinced that's at least part of the reason it won.

Re:Am I the only one? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437238)

>>Am I the only one who doesn't give a damn one way or the other?

Yes.

Re:Am I the only one? (1)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437468)

Am I the only one who doesn't give a damn one way or the other?
Nope. I don't give a shit, either. I was planning to purchase one or the other when the dust settled and a winner emerged. Looks like we're just about there.

Re:Am I the only one? (2, Insightful)

cjb658 (1235986) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437714)

Blu-Ray causes less confusion too. I went to Best Buy with my mother and we were looking at DVDs. She picked up an HD-DVD and I said "that won't work with your DVD player." "Why not?" she said. "I have an HDTV and a DVD player, so I can play HD-DVDs, right?" "You mean I need an HD-DVD player too?" Imagine how hard it will be to tell her she needs an HDCP-compliant TV as well.

Once again, the inferior product (0, Redundant)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437220)

wins.
Why is this so common in technology?

I suspect the built in DRM in Blu-Ray is why large companies (who also have large media concerns) is the winner.

Re:Once again, the inferior product (1)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437648)

Bluray is actually superior, at least where it matters: disc capacity.

Re:Once again, the inferior product (2, Interesting)

Buran (150348) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437686)

Because people who just want to watch hi-def movies (and I can definitely tell the difference on my TV between upscaled SD and true HD) don't care which is "better". I sure didn't. If HD-DVD had won I would have bought an HD-DVD player. But once it became apparent that Blu-Ray had won, I went out and bought a Blu-Ray player and I have Blu-Ray movies on their way from amazon right now.

Why is Blu-Ray inferior? If "inferior" means "where all the movies are going", then I guess inferior it'll have to be. But the people who just want to use hi-def disks for storage are a minority. A vocal one, apparently, but a minority.

The best medium in the world that has nothing that most people want to use it for is of little use, after all.

And I don't see why one or the other is inferior or superior over the other, either. This is not a request to inundate me with tech specs or whining about how your pet format won or lost, though, like every other blog post on the net seems to be.

Blu-Ray won. People, just deal with it. Did people whine this much when VHS won out, too?

Hatred of companies (2, Interesting)

jsheedy (772604) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437326)

I really find it hard to understand why everyone hates Sony. Yes they did have the rootkit scandal that was not right at all. Though, how many times in your own company have you not agreed with how it handles things. I am in a software company, and they try things that are questionable at times. Really, different sides of the company, may not even know what the other sides are doing (that is wrong too, but when you are a peon, you are just glad to be working). I am not at all saying this is right, but it happens. Companies make mistakes, they learn from them (sometimes not good enough). I just find it hard to hate a company unless what they do is morally objectionable. I guess some could argue that what Sony did was, but I am more on the side of human pain and suffering, like sweat shops or things of that manner. Let us not forget that Toshiba has had scandals arise in the past, I seem to recall something back in th e70s related to selling technology to the USSR...

There must be a time limit, ok it has been 30 years, I no longer have to hate them. :)

Just my thoughts, I am sure there will be many that will disagree.

Sony's Eventual surprise HD-DVD support. (1, Troll)

haplo21112 (184264) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437394)


"You heard it here first"

I highly suspect that when all the players finally surrender to Blu-ray that Sony is going to pull a serious hidden rabbit out of its ass.
Prediction the PS3 is currently and always has been HD-DVD compatible, making it so was one of the delay reasons during PS3 launch. Sony wanted to be sure they had everything right to make it so. Right now the HD-DVD compatibility is turned off in the firmware. Once the battle dust settles we will see an announcement that in the next firmware the compatibility will be turned on, see Sony helping ya out! Wasn't that nice of us. How when your early adopter HD Unit dies that's alright you can use your PS3. You do have a PS3 right? No thats OK, we'll be happy to sell you one.

Lets examine this, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are practically the same thing, they only vary slightly in some small technical details. I suspect that those variations hardware wise are accounted for in the PS3 hardware. And well, the software side, thats what PS3 does best.

Re:Sony's Eventual surprise HD-DVD support. (1)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437630)

I'll bite. You're completely wrong. The reasons are obvious, but I'll list just the few that come immediately to mind.

1) With HD-DVD practically dead, and the relatively low adoption rate of either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray to date, Sony has no financial motivation for providing compatibility. There is no cost justification.

2) HD-DVD compatibility requires additional software to be loaded on the player, which is developed and licensed by Microsoft. Now, I'm sure MS would take the money and run if Sony were willing to pay, but once again there is no cost justification that can be made.

3) Even assuming that a lot of people already have a significant enough HD-DVD library that their player breaking would be catastrophic to them, it would be a lot cheaper to pick one up on eBay rather than spending quite a lot of money on a PS3.

4) I'll agree that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are practically the same thing if you'll agree that 15GB per disk versus 25GB per disk is completely insignificant. Then we can both be wrong, together!

Now if only... (1)

tgd (2822) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437420)

If only the media companies would let those of us stuck with HD-DVD discs because of this crap exchange them for the cost of the media... and not pay the damn royalties, etc again.

Sony wins, everyone loses (2, Insightful)

PriceIke (751512) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437424)

In this war I didn't WANT there to be a winner. I was hoping both camps would be forced to accomodate to an ongoing market share tug-of-war, while consumers owned hybrid players and weren't locked into EITHER format, and could choose whichever suited them. Movie studios would release movies on whichever they wanted, or could do double-sided discs (HDDVD on one side, Blu-Ray on the other) and release them in both formats, like music albums were released on cassette as well as CD for many years.

Now that Sony owns the HD movie format, it's a strong disincentive for me to start buying movies in HD, until the DVD format is phased out completely, or until it becomes possible and easy to rip movies from Blu-Ray and reauthor them minus the DRM.

Open the specs, format, etc... (1)

chord.wav (599850) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437432)

And let every device maker in China do the rest.

For movies, you just download from TPB or iTunes like you are probably currently doing, burn them into HD-DVDs and presto.

Free HD-DVD - Blu-Ray Transcription (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437552)

If Toshiba (and other HD-DVD losers) let people invoke their warranty to get free transcripts of their HD-DVD to Blu-Ray, then they'd keep a lot of their customer. Offer a discount on tradein for a Blu-Ray player if they ship ther HD-DVD player back with their discs to be transcribed, and Toshiba could turn a disastrous loss into a way to keep a lot more customers despite picking the losing side.

Just as well HD-DVD DRM was cracked (2, Insightful)

MrSteveSD (801820) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437568)

Otherwise all those HD-DVD movies people have bought would be useless and a waste of money. As it is, they can just rip those high def movies to their hard drives.

I may still buy HD DVD (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437632)

I'm still considering picking up a second HD DVD drive for the XBOX 360 for use on my computers so I don't have to move the one I have around and risk damaging it. I've already invested in many HD DVD releases, most of them exclusively released to HD DVD, and am now reaping the benefits of 50% sales on more titles. A discounted drive that I can use on a computer, AACS keys disclosed, another five HD DVDs free... I'm even reconsidering purchasing HD titles I already have on DVD.

Meanwhile there are still studios with exclusive HD DVD contracts with titles I want sooner than later.

(You can't find a VHS player with S-Video out anymore at a reasonable price. Those dual VHS-DVD decks don't support S-Video for the VHS side. S-VHS decks sell for more than twice what HD DVD decks are. A JVC deck I've been watching is now $414.99.)

Well, crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22437666)

I guess I had better send in for my 5 free HD DVDs, then.

Silver lining (2, Interesting)

The-Bus (138060) | more than 6 years ago | (#22437826)

I supported the HD DVD format while it was viable (until WB pulled out). The silver lining is that the competition between the formats made hardware very, very cheap. Less than 18 months into the launch of both formats, we had HD DVD players go for ridiculously low sums. Blu-Ray backers didn't counter with matching prices, but they did drop the prices of their players (to sub-$500 levels). Software, too, became a bit cheaper. In-store, non-web pricing of high-def media was usually $29-$39, a good two- or three-fold increase over the regular DVD price. In 2007, especially in the summer and fall, there were numerous great deals on Blu-Ray discs. For every sale on HD DVD media, there were 4 or 5 on Blu-Ray: buy one, get one frees, etc. This was a smart move, as it lowered the cost of entry for people who had PS3s and honestly weren't too excited about the new formats. Now instead of paying $10 or $15 more at the store, the price difference would be $5 or less.

Of course, the counter-part to this was the whole confusion between the rival formats and a lot of people who cashed into a new format weeks before its demise. But, even if HD DVD is dead, the discs and players still work.
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