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D&D 4th Edition Details Released

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the orc-the-other-white-meat dept.

Role Playing (Games) 171

Wired is reporting that some juicy details of Wizards of the Coast's new 4th edition for Dungeons and Dragons are being leaked on to the web from the D&D Experience in Arlington, VA this week. "Wizards of the Coast, the current custodians of the D&D universe, have been talking about the upcoming fourth edition of the game for months, but they've been fairly cagey about hard details, preferring to tell us more about how elves love footraces than how much damage a fireball does. They're running actual 4e games at D&D Experience, though, and thanks to people with scanners, you can too!"

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Rolling dice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609214)

d8 rolling... first post!

Re:Rolling dice (1)

BarneyL (578636) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609240)

You forgot to apply your -1 modifier to the roll. Once corrected you'll find you now have the second post.

Well fuck (5, Funny)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609226)

I'm playing what amounts to a beta release of a pen and paper rpg... It's official. I will never get laid.

Well *hick* fuck (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609304)

"It's official. I will never get laid."

Course you will. Accidents happen.

Re:Well *hick* fuck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22612180)

It doesn't count if it's with another guy.

Re:Well fuck (5, Funny)

imasu (1008081) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609354)

Wait... just checking... are you blogging the experience too? Because that would be a hat trick. (A hat trick is a sports term from a game called hockey, played on ice by the guys that beat us up in high school, to save you from hitting Wikipedia)

Re:Well fuck (3, Funny)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609386)

I only heard of hat tricks in Football. I heard it's kinda like a Killing Spree in Unreal Tournament.

Re:Well fuck (0)

heffeque (942634) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609508)

Football = soccer in the USA. It's still called football in the rest of the nations of the whole world, just clarifying for USA's public.

Re:Well fuck (2, Funny)

Stargoat (658863) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609516)

Thanks. Never heard of Walter Payton making a hat trick.

Re:Well fuck (4, Funny)

heffeque (942634) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609540)

Never heard of Walter Payton (at all).

Re:Well fuck (4, Informative)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609460)

A hat trick is a term from cricket referring to the rare instance of a bowler getting out three consecutive batsmen out on three consecutive balls. From there it spread to other sports (cricket was still widely played in North America when the term came into use, which was also before ice hockey became common). Cricket players don't tend to be violent off the field, although bowling to the batsman's face is considered legal as long as it bounces first.

Re:Well fuck (4, Funny)

alex4u2nv (869827) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609556)

Actually, a hat trick is when you pull a rabbit out of a hat.

*drum rolls* Tada!

Re:Well fuck (1)

Dorceon (928997) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610886)

And the reason it's called a Hat Trick is because the bowler wins a Bowler Hat for accomplishing it.

Re:Well fuck (1)

Looshi (1038712) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611910)

Congratulations. I think you out nerded him (thanks for the information though).

Re:Well fuck (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611970)

An excellent example is the 1930s Bodyline Series between England and Australia - resulted in several Australian players being badly injured and the tactic is certainly frowned upon today (but not illegal).

I don't understand the hatred towards D&D. (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609370)

A few weeks ago I was at a mall in LA, eating in the food court. One of the stores nearby was a gaming and hobbyist shop, where they had Dungeons & Dragons paraphernalia displayed prominently in the window. A group of geeky-looking guys went in, and came out a few minutes later with a D&D set.

They sat down in the food court, and started playing. After about 20 minutes or so, a tribe of Latino gangsta scum came over and started taunting them for playing D&D in public. I only overheard a portion of what they were saying, and a lot of it was in horribly broken English that I couldn't figure out for the life of me, but I did hear phrases like "Dungeons & Faggots", and "cacho geek gringo".

I can understand not liking D&D. I've played it before, and didn't really enjoy it. But the pure hatred towards these players that I witnessed was something else. I found it actually pretty disturbing.

Re:I don't understand the hatred towards D&D. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22611032)

Worthless spics. Ship 'em back over the border.

Re:I don't understand the hatred towards D&D. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22611682)

It's not hatred towards the game...

The common perception of d&d is that the only people who play it are the pale skinned geeks who sit behind a computer all day. People who are supposedly helpless against physical violence.

Thus, for your band of Latino gangsters, easy prey.

Then again, the group I play d&d with consists of 2 guys who have been practicing martial arts for years, a guy who is almost six and a half feet tall and works as a security guard, and a guy who was on the varsity track team. Kinda defies the stereotype there.

Re:Well fuck (4, Funny)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609374)

Of coarse you will. Here's a dating site. []

Re:Well fuck (0, Redundant)

LynnwoodRooster (966895) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609546)

Don't be silly - you have a Slashdot account, the chances of you ever getting laid were zero before you ever started the game!

Re:Well fuck (3, Funny)

MurphyZero (717692) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609684)

You forget, some people got married BEFORE they got a slashdot account. Those people will get laid once a month just like any other married guy with children.

Re:Well fuck (2, Funny)

LynnwoodRooster (966895) | more than 6 years ago | (#22612060)

You get laid once a month? You obviously aren't married...


Mr.Ballmer (1241256) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610578)

The "group" I played with got a little carried away and we killed a Milkman, that's when we decided to stop playing! []

What are the effects on players? (-1, Troll)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609228)

The jump from a pure fantasy imagination game to the bean counter fantasy world of D&D3 was enough to put a damper on gameplay. But not enough attention was paid to the actual effects upon the players themselves.

Will this new version increase or decrease the loserosity of its players? Will players gain valuable wedgiesma points in the transition?

Without Wizards of the Coast telling us these things, we can only assume that the Satanic rituals have not been purged and we will see more kids led down the road to social ostracisterity.

Hope they support it (1)

legoburner (702695) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609272)

Well here's hoping they go one better than GW did with dark heresy [] and support it after it sells out all over the place instead of dissolving the company that makes it immediately after release. *sigh*

Re:Hope they support it (1)

DuckDodgers (541817) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609438)

Fantasy Flight Games bought the license from Games Workshop and intends to publish the rest of the Dark Heresy product line. [] . On the other hand, the reviews I've read of Dark Heresy were not all positive. Great artwork and production values, but oddities around career path (none of the career choice freedom of the Warhammer RPG) and power level (PCs start out as space farm boys and don't get to be Inquisitors and their lethal retinue until they've accumulated massive amounts of experience).

I'm cautiously pessimistic about these Dungeons and Dragons 4 previews. Dungeons and Dragons hasn't been a quick pick up game since the basic set decades ago. The second edition was too complicated. The third edition simplified and unified the mechanics of the second edition, and then added in feats, attacks of opportunity, monster character levels, challenge ratings, and a host of other things to keep the game painfully complicated. The fourth edition looks like it expands character options further, and while more options are often nice, the last thing third edition needed was added complexity.

I think I'll stick with simpler games, like Savage Worlds ( or Spirit of the Century (

Re:Hope they support it (1)

2short (466733) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611022)

That's GW. They come out with something; when everyone says it's great, they immediately drop it and wander off in another direction.

This is WoTC. They'll publish dozens of books; everyone will complain how much they suck; they'll sell a zillion copies and make a mint.

Classes (4, Insightful)

TitusC3v5 (608284) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609310)

Even though AD&D was my first PnP experience, I've liked each release less after 2nd Ed. It seems at though every time they try to further the pigeon-holing of classes into certain roles, not unlike MMOs. This edition is no different, even going so far as to actually define these roles - controller, defender, leader, striker (CoH deja vu). As it is, it looks likes D&D is going to remain the system of choice of those who are more interested in flexing the system to make ungodly powerful characters, rather than interesting ones.

Re:Classes (5, Insightful)

Unoriginal_Nickname (1248894) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609330)

Apart from, you know, 2nd Edition was a brutal hack-job created as an interim measure only to deprive Gary Gygax of royalties. 2E was riddled with terrible rules (THAC0 being one of the more benign terrible rules). I don't know if you're only looking back on 2E nostalgically or if you've just never run a 3/3.5E campaign before, but the newer rulesets are much much much better. The supplements, however, are not. They don't even try to balance things like Psionics, and creating a character using the book Savage Species is a pretty quick way to create an overpowered character. My suggestion to you is to avoid both of these things, and also to get a better DM because 3E, properly run, should be quite a bit harder (or at least more tactical).

Re:Classes (2, Insightful)

owlman17 (871857) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609494)

The way I see it, a very rough analogy would be like this: AD&D was like the Win9x series, based on top of OD&D. 2E was like WinME. 3E was like WinXP, and 3.5E was like WinXP SP2. And 4E is Vista. The other superior RPGs, (this is subjective, and can't pinpoint a particular game at the moment) like Linux/Mac/BSD. OSRIC, [] an open-source, AD&D clone is probably like ReactOS/Wine. I'm still into AD&D 1st Ed. (And yup, still dual-booting into Win98.)

Re:Classes (5, Interesting)

Unoriginal_Nickname (1248894) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609544)

I think 4E is more like OSX: It's just as powerful as any other rule set, but everything is hidden from the end user. The equipment is also going to be extremely expensive.

Re:Classes (1)

owlman17 (871857) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609574)

Wish I could mod you up. Hmmm. Didn't think of that. Yeah, pretty much everything's insulated, and this is exactly what a lot of old-school people don't like. Old disliking the new. Nothing new there.

Re:Classes (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609564)

I could have sworn THAC0 was in 1st edition... not that it makes it any less of a bad rule.

And Psionics would not be overpowered if they would have it be in the new edition from the onset. But, of course, they won't, so when they do add it into 4e six months to a year after 4e launches, it will, once again, be all fucked up. (1st ed. Psionics sucked balls. 2nd ed. Psionics were a weird mix of completely overpowered or completely underpowered, 3rd ed. and 3.5 Psionics were just freaking bizarre AND overpowered.)

Re:Classes (2, Informative)

starwed (735423) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610080)

Re:Classes (4, Insightful)

pokerdad (1124121) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609678)

Apart from, you know, 2nd Edition was a brutal hack-job created as an interim measure only to deprive Gary Gygax of royalties. 2E was riddled with terrible rules (THAC0 being one of the more benign terrible rules). I don't know if you're only looking back on 2E nostalgically or if you've just never run a 3/3.5E campaign before, but the newer rulesets are much much much better. The supplements, however, are not. They don't even try to balance things like Psionics, and creating a character using the book Savage Species is a pretty quick way to create an overpowered character. My suggestion to you is to avoid both of these things, and also to get a better DM because 3E, properly run, should be quite a bit harder (or at least more tactical).

THAC0 could have been done better than it was (see 3E), but in 1989 it was a god send. Suddenly there was no need to always have the DMG open to the two page spread that was that the to-hit tables. No more were the unpredictable and illogical entries the riddled the extreme ends of the to-hit table; now a change in AC by 1 always meant the number you needed to roll changed by 1. I honestly doubt that the to-hit system could have been optimized any more than it was, in light of how many people were outraged at the small change ditching the table envoked.

As for the supplements creating over powered characters - that has always been the way of D&D. Every new edition starts out with a (mostly) fair and balanced ruleset, then the add-ons spin out of control. Eventually they decided to trash everything and release a new edition; rinse repeat.

I know I'm a bit of a rarity, but I honestly believe that every new edition has been an improvement of the previous. I have many fond memories of every one of them, but I don't equate fond memories to eliquent rules.

Re:Classes (2, Interesting)

Yosho (135835) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609930)

They don't even try to balance things like Psionics, and creating a character using the book Savage Species is a pretty quick way to create an overpowered character.
Psionics was broken in 2e, and broken again in 3e, but the 3.5 psionics presented in the Expanded Psionics Handbook is actually one of the more balanced systems in the game. Psions are certainly less broken than clerics, druids, and wizards. If you disagree, it's because you don't understand how the system works. Go to the Psionics message board [] on WotC's site and post any concerns you have there -- those guys can prove to you mathematically how psions are less powerful than much of the default core material.

Likewise, a lot of the options in Savage Species seem overpowered at first glance, but you're just having a gut reaction without looking too closely at any of it. The guys at the Character Optimization board [] will gladly show you how most monsters that have a level adjustment actually suck compared to just playing a human with more class levels.

Granted, that's not to say that all of the supplements are good. Complete Champion is a pile of crap. All of the old 3e supplements (Sword & Fist, etc.) were fairly bad. Another book that gets a bum rap, though, is the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, which also provokes a lot of "OMG overpowered!" gut reactions, but again, it's been mathematically shown to be more balanced that plenty of stuff in the core rulebooks.

Re:Classes (2, Insightful)

XorA (147020) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609404)

If the promises in the preview books made it into the Players Handbook, this is the least pigeon holed DnD edition ever. As characters can take class features from other classes. So you can have the fighter who can pick locks, or the cleric who can specialise in Katana. I always liked WFRP for its flexibility, and I really hope when DnD 4E is released the promises are kept up and it gets more flexibility.

Re:Classes (1)

Marthisdil (606679) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609428)

Again, all of your complaint is moot if you have a good group of players and a DM that doesn't let things get out of hand.

D&D? (5, Funny)

Ristol (745640) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609342)

D&D? Seriously? What are you, a bunch of geeks? Now, Hackmaster.. THERE's a game!

Re:D&D? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609388)

So how are those buckets of dice working for you?

Re:D&D? (1)

Fieryphoenix (1161565) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609990)

I am making a MINT selling them, thanks for asking!

Re:D&D? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609422)

Geeks? (This is slashdot.. read the url)

I hate WotC (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609368)

They simply destroyed DnD. And no, I don't mean 3rd edition or 3.5. I mean dismantling the settings that had any sort of flavor (Planescape, for instance) and then pushing harder and harder to turn it into a purely minature game.

This looks like garbage. I'm glad I don't play or develop games for this system anymore.

Re:I hate WotC (3, Insightful)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609666)

They simply destroyed DnD. And no, I don't mean 3rd edition or 3.5. I mean dismantling the settings that had no profitable audience and then pushing harder and harder to make it clear that it's always been a purely minature game.
There, fixed that for you.

(There's a reason why AD&D 1st edition had measurements in inches, and everything was described as "rounds" and "turns")

Re:I hate WotC (1)

localtoast (611553) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611666)

I agree with you. Table-top experiences should be beyond something you can play on an MMO or MUD. You just need enough rules to be fair. AD&D didn't have any holes that couldn't be solved in-game.

Re:I hate WotC (2, Informative)

mark-t (151149) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610272)

Actually, it was the various settings that I think were the nail in the coffin for TSR... because not everybody in their market niche would be interested in buying every single campaign setting, they ended up fragmenting their audience to below sustainable thresholds. But it's not Planescape's fault, I still think that was the best campaign setting TSR ever came out with. Long before planescape came along, however, TSR was already in serious trouble.

When 2nd edition came out, had TSR instead of focusing on campaign settings, instead focused development on adventure modules that are enjoyable and good for one-off adventures that could be played in just a few hours, they really could have kept the gravy train going and probably never been in so much trouble that WotC was able to buy them out. The way this could work (and actually *did* work in the early first edition days when Gygax was still running things) is that people who had not necessarily played before could easily be invited to such a one-off session, where they could try the game with no major commitments and if they liked it, they could easily turn around and go buy their own books (the latter, of course, being where the most profit was, and an easy mechanism for bringing newcomers into the game ensured a continually growing market segment).

All that said, I'm sticking with first edition. The reason being is that the ruleset is the most manageable... There were less than a dozen rulebooks in total for first edition, and materials are pretty easy to come by cheaply on ebay.

New rules in the 4th edition (5, Funny)

cyofee (975070) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609372)

1. Cannot base characters off the Ash from the Evil Dead movies.
2. A one man band is not an appropriate bard instrument.
3. There is no Dwarven god of heavy artillery.
4. My 7th Sea character Boudreaux is not the 'Southern' Montaigne.
5. Not allowed to blow all my skill points on 1pt professional skills.
6. Synchronized panicking is not a proper battle plan.
7. Nor is "Kill them all and let God sort them out"
8. Not allowed to use psychic powers to do the dishes.
9. How to serve Dragons is not a cookbook.
10. My monk's lips must be in sync.
11. Just because my character and I can speak German, doesn't mean the GM can.
13. Not allowed to berserk for the hell of it, especially during royal masquerades.
13. Must learn at least one offensive or defensive spell if I'm the sorcerer.
14. Must not murder canon NPCs in their sleep, no matter how cliche they are.
15. Ogres are not kosher.
16. Plan B is not automatically twice as much explosives as Plan A.
17. I will not beat Tomb of Horrors in less than 10 minutes from memory.
18. Collateral Damage Man is not an appropriate name for a super hero.
19. When surrendering I am to hand the sword over HILT first.
20. Drow are not good eating.
21. Polka is not appropriate marching music.
22. No longer allowed to recreate the Death Star Trench Run out of genre.
23. There is no such thing as a Gnomish Pygmy War Rhino.
24. Any character who has a sensitivity training center named after him will be taken away.
25. Even if the rules allow it, I am not allowed to summon 50,000 Blue Whales.
26. The green elf does not need food badly.
27. Valley speak has no place in a fantasy setting. Especially if you're the paladin.
28. I am not to shoot every corpse in the head to make sure they aren't a zombie in Twilight 2000.
29. The Goddess' of Marriage chosen weapon is not the whip.
30. I cannot have any gun that requires me to continue the damage code on back.
31. I am not to kill off all the vampires in the LARP, even if they are terminally stupid.
32. The backup trap handler is not whoever has the most HP at the time.
33. I cannot buy any animal in groups of 100 or over.
34. There is no such skill as 'improvised cooking'
35. I am not allowed to base any Droid off any character played by Joe Pesci.
36. I am not allowed to convince the entire party to play R2 units.
37. I am not allowed to convince the entire party to sit on the same side of the table.
38. They do not make black market illegal cyberweapons for rodents.
39. When investigating evil cultists not allowed to just torch the decrepit mansion from the outside.
40. Dwarves do not have the racial ability 'can lick their eyebrows'
41. Dwarves do not have the racial ability to hold their breath for 10 minutes.
42. Dwarves do not have the racial ability 'impromptu kickstand'
43. Having a big nose adds nothing to my seduction check.
44. No longer allowed to set nazi propaganda music to a snappy disco beat.
45. Not allowed to spend all 100 character points on 100 1pt skills.
46. My character names are not allowed to be double entendres.
47. Sliver rhymes with silver because the computer frelling says so.
48. They do not make Nair in wookie sizes.
49. The elf is restricted to decaf for the rest of the adventure.
50. Not allowed to blow up the Death Star before that snotty farm kid gets his shot.
51. Not allowed to use thermodynamic science to asphyxiate the orcs' cave instead of exploring it first.
52. No longer allowed to use the time machine for booty calls.
53. My bard does not know how to play Inna Godda Davida on marachas.
54. Not allowed to start a drow character weighing more than a quarter ton.
55. Cannot pimp out other party members.
56. Before facing the dragon, not allowed to glaze the elf.
57. No matter how well I roll, a squirrel cannot carry a horse and rider at full sprint.
58. In the middle of a black op I cannot ask a guard to validate parking.
59. Expended ammunition is not a business expense.
60. Not allowed to pose the Netrunner in embarrassing positions when he's on a run.
61. Not allowed to short sheet the bedroll of impotent dieties.
62. Can only taunt the ranger about his lack of swimming after my USCG E8 saves him.
63. I am not allowed to do anything I saw Han Solo do once.
64. No, I cannot buy 10,000 marbles even if I say please.
65. My paladin's battle cry is not "Good for the Good God"
66. There is no Summon Bimbo spell.
67. Not allowed to start a character that speaks every language except ones the party speaks.
68. There is no Kung Fu manuever "McGuire Swings For Bleachers"
69. Bring him back intact includes redundant organs.
70. There is more to wizardry than magic missile. Even if I can do 200 damage automatic with no save.
71. Not allowed to cook up nerve gas in the sink even if the target number is 5.
72. There is no 'annoy' setting on a phaser
73. Not allowed to start a character who is over 100 years old unless he's an elf or dwarf. Humans are right out.
74. Not allowed to name my cudgel Ceremonial Whoopass Stick.
75. My thief's battle cry is not "Run And Live"
76. Nor is it "You take care of the orcs, I take care of the traps"
77. I am not allowed any artistic license while translating.
78. I did not get my super powers from James T. Kirk.
79. Not allowed to commission a pistol that costs more than a sedan.
80. I am not liquid metal.
81. When accepting a challenge for a duel, I must allow the other guy time to find a pistol.
82. A picture of my ex-wife is not an acceptable backup weapon.
83. Victory laps after killing the dragon with my 1d2 bow is considered in poor taste.
84. My gnome does not like big butts and he cannot lie.
85. Not allowed to talk my fellow inquisitors into buying a 220lb pull crossbow.
86. Not allowed to talk my fellow inquisitors into buying an industrial strength flamethrower.
87. Not allowed to make a superhero with a 99% chance of dodging even after the -10 penalty for a successful called shot.
88. There is no such thing as a dwarven katana.
89. My bard does not get a bonus to perform if she is obviously not wearing anything under her tabard.
90. The elf's name is not Legolam.
91. My swashbuckling fop cannot take the flaw Dark Secret: Not Gay
92. A wet towel does not constitute an improvised weapon.
93. The name of the weapon shop is not "Bloodbath and Beyond"
94. I am to remind my DM that he must never, ever give my paladin a dire boar for a mount again.
95. I cannot base my ancient kung fu master on neither Gene Simmons or Bluto Blutarski.
96. I must not put the Thunder God on the spot again.
97. No making up polearms.
98. My one wish cannot be 'I wish everything on this piece of paper was true'
99. There is no such thing as Speed Polka.
100. Not allowed to see if Jedi can parry a shotgun blast with their lightsaber.
101. When any character from a d20 sourcebook is allowed, that doesn't include System Lords.
102. I am not allowed to pave ANYTHING.
103. I am not authorized to start any civil engineering project on the taxpayer's dime.
104. There is no such thing as a Club +3 of Cup Checks
105. Nor is there a +1 Longsword, +5 against party members.
106. I am not allowed to polymorph anyone into Abe Vigoda.
107. I do not have weapon profiency in cat.
108. There is no such game as Wereshark the Buffet.
109. No, I do not get XP for every single crewman on that Star Destroyer.
110. Not allowed to kill a vampire with any part from a DC-10 larger than my car.
111. Not allowed to serenade the party even if my character has an internal tape deck.
112. I did not pick the garrote skill last week from my grandmother.
113. If the gun can't fit through the x-ray machine, it doesn't go on the plane.
114. My Droid is not allowed to paraphrase any Jack Nicholson soliloquy.
115. The Demilich only falls for getting stuffed in the bag of holding once.
116. My musical instrument does not double as a personal flotation device.
117. Not allowed to take a coffee break during the final super villain showdown.
118. I am restricted to memorizing Floating Disc only once per day.
119. I will pick a more traditional paladin weapon instead of a sledgehammer.
120. My character's names cannot be anagrams of playboy playmates.
121. Not allowed to kill another party member with a boomerang again.
122. I am not a contractor for Dragon Cave Cleaning Services Inc.
123. The paladin's alignment is not Lawful Anal.
124. Not allowed to forget to mention traps when the powergamer has point.
125. I cannot insert the words "Kill Phil, Sorry Phil" into any list of instructions.
126. Lingerie can only snap coincidentally so many times per day.
127. Dwarves do not count as burrowing animals.
128. Not allowed to download Widows 3.5 on the Arasaka mainframe.
129. Polka Gnomes exist only in my mind.
130. Not allowed to name my ship The Antidisestablishmentarianism.
131. Gun Fu is not a martial arts discipline.
132. Not allowed to bet how many times the lich bounces.
133. There is no such feat called "Death Blossom"
134. My acrobat cannot balance on the warlord's head for more than one round.
135. The King's Guards official name is not "The Royal Order of the Red Shirt"
136. I cannot demand payment in electrum, backrubs or bubblewrap.
137. I cannot start the 7th Sea campaign with 3 confirmed Drachen kills.
138. I do not have a scorching case of lycanthropy.
139. If the mere thought of it costs the others sanity, I'm forbidden from doing it.
140. My bard is required to take levels in the perform skill and cannot 'just play by ear'
141. The Dutch language does not exist in the Forgotten Realms.
142. My maid does not know kung fu.
143. Not allowed to give a 4 year old a sugar rush just to jack up the CR later.
144. Not allowed to buy a holy symbol for every god just in case one of them is right.
145. There is no such thing as pleather armor.
146. I cannot go back in time to cut in line at the Declaration of Independence so everybody now is asked for their Terrence E. Woczinski when signing documents.
147. Not allowed to play an Australian in any game set before 1600.
148. Hobbits are not allowed to have Norse ancestry.
149. There is no Gnomish Deathgrip, and even if there was, it wouldn't involve tongs.
150. Looting the unguarded baggage train is not considered a glorious victory.
151. Not allowed to create recreational drugs in suppository format.
152. Halflings do not have a racial proficiency with the flamethrower.
153. When the guy is at -9 HP is not the best time for my cleric to convert him.
154. I will not propose to every noblewoman at the royal ball until I crit my charisma check.
155. I am not allowed to rub the monk's head for luck.
156. I am not allowed to rub any part of the elf chick for any reason.
157. When one person forgets to buy rations eating the half-elf is not our first option.
158. Any capital scale weapon is not 'my little friend'.
159. I will not declare myself a god just so I can grant myself spells.
160. Airlocks do not double as trash disposals.
161. I will not load any gatling weapon with nothing but paint rounds.
162. I will not nail every single female party member except for the elf chick played by that creepy guy.
163. What ever monster we just killed is not to be tonight's dinner.
164. Not allowed to try and make a dire version of any dog of the toy breeds.
165. I am not to tattle to the halfling assassin's mom about his career choice.
166. I am forbidden from replacing anything with folger's crystals to see if they notice.
167. Not allowed to bribe the enemy commander into withdrawing with a stolen Elvis LP collection.
168. I was not recruited by Star League for any reason.
169. I was also not recruited by 12 dwarves and a wizard to rob a dragon.
170. I am neither the pagan god nor goddess of fertility.
171. I cannot name my character Xagyg or any anagram thereof.
172. My character's dying words are not allowed to be "Hastur, Hastur, Hastur"
173. At no point can I justify spending force points on a seduction check.
174. I am not allowed to recreate Veers' March of the AT-ATs on Zhentil Keep.
175. There is no use of Shatner's spoken word album that doesn't require a humanity check.
176. I am not directly descended from either Huey Lewis or any member of the News.
177. I cannot make called shots to the plectrum, anvil, stirrup, hammer or Isle of Langerhans.
178. Stinking cloud is a privilege, not a right.
179. There are no profanities in Celestial.
180. Chummer means he is my friend, not that sharks find him tasty.
181. I have neither the touch nor the power.
182. I cannot quote Shakespeare in Crinos.
183. No figuring out the plot and killing the actual villain five minutes into the adventure.
184. There are no rules for cooking corn dogs in any d20 supplement.
185. A starting character has no need for 100gp worth of hemp rope.
186. My bard does not need roadies for a dungeon crawl.
187. No cutting line to be a god.
188. I cannot gain more than three drama die per session for making the GM pee.
189. I cannot play a elf with a scottish accent, nor a cajun dwarf.
190. Tourretes is not a flaw, it is a reason to kill the character at creation.
191. Duels wielding small animals are strictly forbidden.
192. My character is not related in anyway to Boba Fett. This goes double for Star Wars characters.
193. If the gun is best fired using the artillery skill, my character is not allowed to have it.
194. Not allowed to kill vampires with seismic charges.
195. When the other guy picks swords for the choice of weapons, that does not leave me pistols.
196. I cannot use a silent feat enambled power word stun and blame it on the dog.
197. I cannot name a character anything that I can't say politely in another country.
198. My epic level character cannot take on the minor goblin menace to his country just to stay sharp.
199. Not allowed to steal my own soul.
200. My third wish cannot be 'I wish you wouldn't grant this wish'
201. I cannot name my character cliche canon characters from other systems.
202. My thief is prohibited from speaking solely in Cant.
203. Character descriptions cannot contain two of the following words: Slavic, Tonedeaf, Karaoke, Musician.
204. My superhero's strength is not classified as snazzy, neato or bodacious.
205. I am not too sexy for the elf, too sexy for the elf, so sexy myself.
206. My 3rd ed. Red Wizard is not allowed to start a business named Thay Co.
207. I cannot forge a +1 sword of Brad's Min/Maxed Paladin/Monk Slaying.
208. The following weapons are not legal choices in a duel: Steamroller, Nerve Gas, Landmine, Midget.
209. I cannot whine about the crappy selection of magical bec de corbins.
210. My Paladin's heraldry is not a smiley face.
211. My Antipaladin's heraldry is not Mr. Yuk.
212. If at any point if my dwarf takes on the mannerisms of Macho Man Randy Savage, he dies.
212. If the party always starts the adventure in a tavern, I cannot opt to start in a brothel.
213. I am not the patron saint of common sense.
214. There is no prestige class Drizzt Slayer.
215. They do not make heavy weapons in pump action.
216. There is an upper limit to the number of Bozo boostergangers I can get in a Volkswagon.
217. If the weapon is capable of staking vampires hiding behind engine blocks, I can't have it.
218. No matter my alignment, organizing halfling pit fights is a violation.
219. In formal introductions to royalty, I must not introduce my companions as just "The Other Guys".
220. I am not the master of the low blow or the gang up.
221. If I get that Yugo up to 120mph again, that's gonna create some paradox.
222. Druids are not against my religion.
223. I cannot convince the Solo he has a cortex bomb when he really doesn't.
224. I cannot insinuate elf chicks are all easy, even though you never hear about a half gnome do you?
225. I am forbidden from monologuing.
226. Troll bubblegum...bad idea.
227. My last wish cannot be "I wish we were playing another game."
228. I cannot use my time machine to hire Hitler a hooker in 1920, thus avoiding WW2.
229. Not allowed to spontaniously check if the elf can take a punch.
230. There is no such thing as monofilament tooth floss.
231. I am not allowed to do anything that would make a Sith Lord cry.
232. Paul Watson and I are never allowed to create characters together unsupervised.
233. If I am the medtech it is generally assumed I am going to have skill in medicine.
234. My character does not get d34 HP a level.
235. My Samedi is required to have dots in obfuscate. Plural, as in more than one, two more than none.
236. My character has no need for 24,000 cartons of cigarettes, especially in his neighbor's garage.
237. Not allowed to use more than 3 words per game that the GM has to look up the definition.
238. My bard cannot play or has ever heard of the theremin, didgeridoo or glass armonica.
239. My rockerboy cannot play or has ever heard of the theremin, didgeridoo or glass armonica.
240. Any character with more than three skills specializing in chainsaw is vetoed.
241. Cannot use the jedi mind trick to get out of a speeding ticket.
242. Not allowed to give quicklings Mountain Dew.
243. Cannot cast haste on the king during a long winded speech to get him to hurry the hell up.
244. Not allowed to taunt the rest of the party in 8 different languages because they forgot to take any.
245. Not allowed to attend any opera whose name the GM confuses with a strip joint.
246. I cannot keep selling that creepy guy's always naked elf chick to nomads every chance I get.
247. If the king rewards me with a forest, I am to assume he intends for me to keep it a forest.
248. There is no Dwarven God of groin shots.
249. If a black op requires me to impersonate an employee, I cannot bill the target for overtime.
250. Superfluous Man is not a viable superhero concept.

Re:New rules in the 4th edition (1)

Datamonstar (845886) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609452)

Oh my, how you deserve a +1 funny. And a medal.

Re:New rules in the 4th edition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609700)

Or a good swift kick in the nuts for being a plagiarizing prick. Original is : []

Then again, maybe he is the originator and I owe him an apology.

Re:New rules in the 4th edition (1)

2short (466733) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610224)

Yeah, it's amazing he made up that whole long comment just to entertain us in just minutes after the subject of D&D came up.

Re:New rules in the 4th edition (1)

Yosho (135835) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610916)

It's almost as amazing as all of the other times it's been done in D&D articles.

Seriously, though, the mods here must be new, because this is oooold.

Re:New rules in the 4th edition (3, Informative)

owlman17 (871857) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609752)

While not quite exact, the list is based on this. []

Re:New rules in the 4th edition (1)

MISSBEHAVING (1247868) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609860)

holy cow. ok, so when and where do you play? i gotta see plhx2 (peace prosperity love leisure and LIKE health and happiness) like why you gotta keep the valleygirl down man? why?

There's a missing tag! (1)

Gewalt (1200451) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609398)

I thought for sure I'd see "andnothingofvaluewaslost" on this one.

No, I'm not living in a basement (1)

harry666t (1062422) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609416)

I'm living in a dungeon

Is this really stil about gaming or... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609420)

Maybe its my age showing, I dunno, but a good 10 - 15 years ago I too was a very enthousiast RPG player, the main interest lied in D&D. However, when looking back and looking at the 4th edition being launched I can't help wonder if this isn't a mere quest for more money and nothing else. Let me explain...

What I liked best about roleplaying was that you didn't really need much to have fun. You basically needed a good DM to setup a story and who was familiar with the rules, but that didn't have to cost much. When we started out a friend bought the D&D starters kit which had the basic rules, copied them for us and so began our quest. We didn't need much more; the DM setup the whole stories using using a notebook (the paper thing, not a laptop ;)) and that was it. We all had our own dice but we also used to take turns when playing. SO when adding up you didn't really need much money to get the most fun out of the game. And this is what has always fascinated me about D&D, a very well setup game which didn't require tremendous amounts of cash.

And when the party grew and we wanted more I eventually stumbed upon the D&D Rules Cyclopedia [] (sorry for the commercial link but its the best I could find). And that was the beginning of the end for us; all of a sudden we had all the rules and every table you could possibly dream of in 1 big ass book. Even better; it even clearly explained how you could expand on the D&D universe to add enhancements of your own. In the end we ended up creating our own imaginary island on which we would live several nice adventures. In the end it wasn't about knowing all the rules or living it strictly as told. We cared about the role playing and the adventuring, nothing else.

It was also during that time when I got in contact with AD&D 2nd edition. What struck me as odd from the start were the tremendous amounts of books you required to setup a good game, or at least thats how it looked to me. Personally I got completely sucked into Dragonlance. Not so much on playing but reading the stories from Weiss and Hickman. I collected the whole Dragonlance Chronicles and Legends and also many paperbacks with 3rd party stories. Some of those were quite amazing. However, then it suddenly struck me that the whole thing was aimed at a very particular crowd and many stories all centred about a common goal: stopping Takhisis from performing her evil deeds. And all guided by several (many) very strict rules and hints and tips.

And after checking out dozens of AD&D 2nd edition rule books (not specifically aimed at Dragonlance) I couldn't help wonder about one very simple and basic idea: "Where is the roleplaying in all this?". To me it felt like the whole "RPG experience" was picked up and used to describe a whole different thing. Sure, you had your roleplaying and it wasn't /all/ about rules. But compared to D&D there was much more to gain in AD&D if you at least purchased a basic pack of books in order to know your basics. Was this really only about gaming or....

Well, its a trend I saw happening throughout the scene. The Dragonlance books I so adored were illustrated mainly by Larry Elmore. An artist who's work I really admired. Its only natural that I bought some of his artbooks ("The art of Dragonlance") which I really enjoyed. But, picture my surprise when I noticed that after a few years (5 or so) they suddenly changed the pictures on the covers. The Elmore pictures were gone and replaced by other stuff. Even the whole TSR logo and approach was different. And it was then and there where I saw that things turned more mainstream (in my experience at least).

Next you had AD&D 3rd edition (not too long ago iirc, I could be mistaken) and now the next rules have leaked out. And then, to finish up this long story, I cannot help ask myself: "What happened to creating your own story based on existing rules using nothign more but some pieces of paper and your dice". But like I said; it must be my age showing ;-)

Apples and oranges? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609584)

Leave it up to the nerds to start doing that what most of us hated in a good RPG game; powerplaying. Either that or they can't tell + from - anymore. Educational system at its best...

But, although you present some good points in my opinion there is a flaw in your story. Its not fair to compare both D&D and AD&D like that. D&D too started out with 3 different kits; starter, advanced and immortal (I don't know the exact names anymore). And once you reached a certain level there wasn't much choice; either buy the next kit or roll your own stuff.

Don't forget that the rules cyclopedia was released when AD&D was already getting the most attention. That move too was a good way to allow people to complete their D&D collection and... It would gain more money than simply ignoring it all together. Where some people might never have bought more than one kit, now they'd make it really tempting to do "one last D&D purchase".

Re:Is this really stil about gaming or... (1)

Omestes (471991) | more than 6 years ago | (#22612092)

I was heavily into D&D until high school, then a friend of mine got us all playing Vampire: the Masquerade. It was a much better system for role playing than any D&D source (though I still have fond memories of AD&D), because it was based on "story telling" and not just making the DM a "rule monger".

We had a couple DMs who took the rules as gospel, and made us roll to see if we tripped every time we ran. Which, needless to say, completely destroyed any narrative thread.

Though the White Wolf system handles combat badly (3 characters fighting 10 people can take a full session), it manages to keep the story going for the most part. I also like the idea of having one type of dice (this is before the d20 system, or WoTC consolidating 3d dice to be less schizo). The thing that VtM missed was the good stories that D&D had. I always loved Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance always seemed too cliche fantasy for me though. But then again for everything D&D got rigt story-wise, I can always point at Spelljammer, and giggle. But White Wolf's system was supposed to be more open ended, I suppose.

Fourth Edition? Really? (5, Funny)

Mr. Bad Example (31092) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609430)

Oh, man...I put on my robe and wizard hat.

Actually... (1)

daydr3am3r (880873) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609436)

There's a great deal of info about the new edition on Massawyrm's review, over at AICN (which also took me by surprise on how positive it is). You can find them here [] and here [] .
A third part will be coming as well.

Re:Actually... (1)

heptapod (243146) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609954)

Dude, you can buy a positive review from AICN for a nickel, a batch of cupcakes and a randy mare.

D&D sucks (4, Insightful)

paulatz (744216) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609468)

Maybe the subject is a bit rude, but I cannot like D&D any more. It is getting more and more cumbersome and unrealistic, it more of a math problem than a simple canvas on which to build with your fantasy.

It have been a few years now, since I last did some role playing with my friend, in the last period we had much more fun using a simple set of rules we had developed ourselves than any boxed set

D&D is especially bad as it started as a simple set of rules, with some original points and, and than evolved to gigantic, while keeping it's original inconsistencies and awkward mechanics.

Anyway I don't I will have much time to play it again until I retire, and it will take, well.. about 40 years

Re:D&D sucks (1)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609514)

"It is getting more and more cumbersome and unrealistic"

Its a game about zombies, dragons, elves, fireballs and magic swords, and you are complaining that its getting more unrealistic?!?

Re:D&D sucks (4, Insightful)

vertinox (846076) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609530)

Maybe the subject is a bit rude, but I cannot like D&D any more. It is getting more and more cumbersome and unrealistic, it more of a math problem than a simple canvas on which to build with your fantasy.

I was thinking the same thing about the new rules. I remember at times as a kid in which we would just throw out the rules for simplicity and have a six sided die scale with 1 being you failed horribly at the task and 6 mean you succeeded brilliantly with varying modifiers for success or failure on occasion. It wasn't about playing a game as it was story telling and role playing. Now it seems they just want to take WoW's success and bring it to PnP which is not that great of an idea.

I was hoping that someday we would see PnP actually go online, but I'm having my doubts.

Re:D&D sucks (4, Informative)

cheesethegreat (132893) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609620)

[i]I was hoping that someday we would see PnP actually go online, but I'm having my doubts.[/i]

Yeah, I wonder if that'll ever happen. We'd need forums and bulletin boards,

If only there were forums or chat rooms where we could play. [] [] []

Of course, we'd need online dice-rolling programs to do it. Wonder where I could find those? [] []

But that wouldn't be as good as having an electronic online game table sanctioned and run by the publishers themselves. []

You're right. We'll never see PnP go online. But it's nice to dream.

Re:D&D sucks (1)

2short (466733) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610370)

You should try Over the Edge; it's rules system is only slightly more complex than what you describe, and it's great.

Of course, playing the way you describe, you weren't playing D&D. Which is fine if you don't like D&D, but if you don't like D&D, it maty be little surprise that you won't like 4th edition D&D.
I've played 4th Edition, and can tell you: It isn't WoW brought to the table. It isn't the super-rules-light role playing you describe. It feels to me like D&D, made more fun.

Re:D&D sucks (1)

Blakflag (95052) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610708)

My first game of D&D was played during school recess, using a ROCK as the die.

Re:D&D sucks (1)

Jacer (574383) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609724)

adding and subtracting numbers two digit numbers is hard, confirm?

Re:D&D sucks (1)

2short (466733) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610056)

Of course, this new edition throws much of the original inconsistencies, awkward mechanics and years of cruft, and replaces them with something intended to be more streamlined. One can argue the degree to which they've succeeded, but basically, your concerns are much of what they've attempted to address.

Parent is sooo right! (2, Interesting)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610318)

Torg, Gurps, Skyrealms of Jorune, Exalted, Runequest, Milleniums End, Harnmaster, Palladium, Everway, etc. ... there are *tons* of RPGs out there that are cheaper, more in-depth, have better material, are more flexible, easyer to understand and better to handle than D&D.

To make an analogy to the IT world: I see D&D something like the SQL of RPGs. It's ancient, unwieldy, expensive, slow, unneccessary and really crappy by modern standards but for the reason of some undiscovered infinetly raging mass-psychosis people think of it as the prime example in it's field.

If you're planning on getting into RPG (again) please *do* check out the alternatives of which I listed some above. They deserve to be considered as a RPG gaming system.

Re:D&D sucks (1)

apoc.famine (621563) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611888)

If you really want to play some sort of RPG, and have a few friends who feel the same, try Burning Wheel [] . I'll freely admit that it took me awhile to figure out wtf was going on, as it's a COMPLETELY different system than D&D. The math is limited, the rules are pretty simplified, and much more focus is put on actually playing your character than anything else. In fact, the only way to advance is to role-play your character well. Advancement isn't based on killing things, finding treasure, or completing quests. You can play the most sniveling, weaselly character you want and still advance faster than someone playing a tank, just by playing that character well.

The game is set up so that it is VERY player driven, with the entire system designed to rely upon character beliefs and goals, and the way they go about pursuing those goals. "Points" are given for attempting to achieve character goals, and playing the character aligned to their stated beliefs. If your character believes that fights should begin with a knife in the back, and you do so, points to you. If your character believes that courtesy is the most important virtue, and proceeds to tells the mayor to go shit in his hat, no points.

Even more interesting, the base game is a very inexpensive series of 3 books, covering just the rules, and nothing else. There is (last I checked) no official campaign world, which allows you to use whatever you feel like using. I have a friend who uses an entirely home-brew world, and one who ran a pretty sweet campaign based on the Midnight d20 campaign setting.

If you're truly sick of D&D, I'd recommend it. That, or D&D 4.0... ;-)

D&D: keeping nerds virgins for 30 years (1, Troll)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609472)

seriously there is a reason sterotypes exist - because most of the time they are true.

walk past a D&D shop and you'll see i'm right.

Re:D&D: keeping nerds virgins for 30 years (4, Funny)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609626)

The scary thing is we're talking second generation virgins now.

Re:D&D: keeping nerds virgins for 30 years (1)

amtAddict (1249056) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609676)

Not all nerds are virgins, you obviously have never played should check it out.

Re:D&D: keeping nerds virgins for 30 years (1)

Yosho (135835) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609878)

seriously there is a reason sterotypes exist - because most of the time they are true.

walk past a D&D shop and you'll see i'm right.
That's strange, every guy in my D&D group has a girlfriend or is married, with the exception of the guy who just got divorced after being married for ten years...

As hard as it may be to believe, most people who play D&D are perfectly normal people. Walk into a D&D shop and talk to them rather than just walking past it and you'll see I'm right.

Re:D&D: keeping nerds virgins for 30 years (1)

2short (466733) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611490)

All the D&D players I know are married.

People who worry what sort of sterotype is associated with a particular hobby are insecure.

People who mock others based on their assumptions about a geeky sub-culture? That's just sad.

Doing so on Slashdot? Umm, yeah, sorry that life thing didn't work out for you...

Re:D&D: keeping nerds virgins for 30 years (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611958)

falling for a classic troll is a sign of insecurity. why the fuck do you need to prove anything to me?

This begs the question.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609482)

Who gives a shit?

This looks... (1)

Paranatural (661514) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609490)

...Interesting, really. It can accomplish the goals set out to make adventures last longer, without everyone needing to sleep after their first fight. I'm kinda worried that with all this offensive power that PCs would be able to smack down enemies 2 at a time per round with ease, but I've not played yet.

Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (4, Informative)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609548)

I'm looking at the back of that specific Tiefling Wizard's sheet, and it seems to me that conversion is going right out the window. This 1st level character seems pretty beefy to me, in terms of sheer spell face-meltage. Does 'At-Will' really mean "as much as you want, just so long as it is your turn"?

Likewise it seems the Fighter gets to throw a 3d10+5 blow once per day. Yes, I typed that right. 8-35 damage, once daily, renews if you miss - AT LEVEL ONE?

If so, wow. Just wow.

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (4, Informative)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609566)

Nevermind! I now see that a kobold now has 27 hit points... So that fighter, once per day, MIGHT get to one-shot a kobold.

I now officially know nothing about D&D...

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609668)

Yeah, it looks like there's going to be some "previously thought to be ridiculous amounts of damage" thrown around at 1st level. Magic missile as an at-will, doing 2d4+5? Yikes.

Wonder what the fireball spell is going to look like....

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22609810)


Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (3, Interesting)

Wylfing (144940) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609862)

See, I actually like it this way. It always bothered me that someone could stand there and take 40 arrows to the chest and keep on fighting. The way it's done in 4e, one arrow from a good marksman is a mortal wound. You need to spend fairly scant resources to keep yourself alive, or think about how you'll cooperate to prevent that marksman from getting his shot off. It's much better, and in the hands of a competent DM, should be far more "cinematic" and fun.

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (2, Informative)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610064)

Then you'll hate the stats in TFA: Kobolds have 27 HP, and a first level wizard with a 10 Con has 20 HP. Also notice that the wizard heals 5 HP 6 times a day, so now a wizard can take 40 arrows in the chest at first level.

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22612088)

Even if the wizard had all those HP at once, that's only 50 HP. 40 arrows to the chest should be doing at least 120 damage...

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (3, Informative)

Yosho (135835) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609866)

Yeah, HP levels are getting inflated again. It happened during the move from 2nd to 3rd ed, so it's no surprise they're doing it again. Remember when elder dragons had on the order of 80 HP or so?

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (4, Interesting)

foo fighter (151863) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610292)

Yes. And it sucked. Players and DMs had to be very careful or you'd TPK before anyone got to 2nd level. PCs were so fragile you couldn't role-play because you can't waste emotional energy becoming attached to a character that was probably going to die before the end of the session.

The solution was building characters that started at level 5, or thereabouts. So 3rd and now 4th edition are just being honest and getting rid of the 1st-4th levels that sucked to play, sucked to DM, and actively encouraged min-maxing and not roleplaying.

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22610812)

Heck even AD&D 1e was inflated compared to the original, or even compared to Basic D&D. I grew up with Basic (Moldvay edition) and our fighters had d8 hit dice, and no 1st level double HD rangers in sight or other craziness... I should also mention clerics got no spells at 1st level (they were closer to teutonic knights than de-facto healers anyway) and 3d6 chargen was the norm, with stat bonuses reflecting that (+1 for 13-5, +2 for 16-17, +3 for 18).
It was a simpler game, much better suited for people who liked a more abstract roleplaying experience, where the rules are secondary to the story and in-game world. It's still played to this day by some who value simplicity and easy tweakage over complex rulesets that try to do handle every possible situation.

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (3, Informative)

dcollins (135727) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609938)

Yes. One of the very first things that designers said publicly months ago is that conversions will not be possible to 4E. There's a bit of song-and-dance marketing that "the same idea in your head will now have different mechanics applied".

This is intentional, because they're trying to break compatibility with last edition's Open Gaming License (inspired by the GPL), and make D&D once again totally proprietary.

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (4, Informative)

debrisslider (442639) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611058)

That's a complete lie. Here's the press release about the OGL for 4th edition [] . There is a fee for a prerelease OGL, but once the game actually launches it's free. I assume they charge for the extra work getting the documents to the third party takes, and because there'll be an obvious bonus to other publishers due to the PR frenzy at release. And what's so bad about not being compatible? It's an entirely different rules set, designed to play much differently. It's not like there's a dearth of 3rd edition material that hasn't been played by the average group, and campaign settings have always been described in terms of both flavor and mechanics, so if you're really desperate for new ideas you could just steal them from there (or any other gaming company's publications). Also, I'm tired of hearing people complain about having to buy new books. No one is forcing you to upgrade if you really love 3ed that much, and all your REALLY need to play is the player's handbook (plus DMG and Monster Manual, but that's for the DM). I really wish I had ANY hobby as cheap as PNP RPGing can be; you can buy into D&D4e for less than the cost of two semi-recent video games. Buy a couple of supplements a year and you're still way below the threshold for basically any other hobby. There's plenty of fan-generated material you can get for free on the web, you seriously never have to spend more than $30/$90 plus dice ever to play the game.

Re:Holy Power Levels Batman!!! (1)

wolfing (1007041) | more than 6 years ago | (#22612064)

Granted, I haven't read a thing about 4e so obviously what I'm about to say has no meaning but...
A 1st level character with 20 INT???
LOL I remember when I considered myself lucky if I had a 15 in a stat... 4d6 discard lowest roll rule FTW lol

Red & Blue books (2, Interesting)

Bender0x7D1 (536254) | more than 6 years ago | (#22609994)

Give me my red and blue rule books and I'll be off to the Keep on the Borderlands or the Isle of Dread. If I have some time, on the way I'll stop by the Palace of the Silver Princess.

Sure, the later books filled in a lot of missing material, but the basic and expert sets covered what you needed to start playing and having fun. (I also liked the first edition of AD&D.) If I'm playing a game I don't want to be bogged down in so many details and minutia that I stop having fun. Do I really need to worry about having a sewing kit? I battle orc hordes and packs of bugbears - why should I worry about having spare tabards in my backpack so I look nice for the victory feast?

Now, a lot of that can be fixed by a good DM, but many start considering the details once they see them in the book. It never would have entered their mind that you need to keep a sewing kit - except that it's in the equipment list, so you should have bought one if you wanted one. Keep things simple. Keep them fun. If I wanted to handle all of the historical details, I'd join a civil war reenactment group. If I wanted to handle all of the details - I'd worry about doing laundry in real life. If I want to role play - I'll start living a second life. With all the new rulebooks, and their inflated prices, it's cheaper to live a double life.

Re:Red & Blue books (1)

Keebler71 (520908) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611922)

Don't play D&D myself (or rather haven't since the early 80's) but a previous slashdot story linked to this [] you might find interesting.

What's the CRPG strategy? (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610002)

Considering how Temple of Elemental Evil was such a flop, and EA/BioWare is quite happy now with their console franchise and homegrown systems, do they have any licensees left? Not that it gets them any royalties, but does Hasbro Interactive even have anything in the pipe vis a vis the D&D franchise?

Oh yeah there's a MMO, which I actually managed to forget ... as did the rest of the market.

Ain't It Cool has a 3-part review (3, Informative)

Robotech_Master (14247) | more than 6 years ago | (#22610824)

There's a glowing playtest review of the game on Ain't It Cool News. Part One [] , Part Two [] . Part Three should be posted some time today.

Hallelujah. (1)

uhlume (597871) | more than 6 years ago | (#22611224)

I see we've returned, at long last, to "News for Nerds."

Spycraft/Fantasycraft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22611824)

Key designers of 4.0 love Spycraft, and it is fast becoming evident that 4.0 is a dirty knockoff of Spycraft.

Just go for the real thing, wait for Fantasycraft from Crafty Games.
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