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Microsoft Submits Windows 7 for Antitrust Review

samzenpus posted more than 6 years ago | from the check-it-out dept.

Microsoft 166

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has submitted the follow-up to Windows Vista to the committee that oversees its US antitrust compliance, to ensure the operating system is meeting the terms of the company's agreement with the government. According to last week's status report on the US antitrust case, Microsoft "recently supplied" the Technical Committee (TC) with a build of the OS, code-named Windows 7, and the TC will "conduct middleware-related tests on future builds" of the software. The move was revealed in papers filed in the US District Court for the District of Columbia. Those on the TC so far are the only ones privy to what the follow-up to Vista will look like, and Microsoft is mum on details of the software. But recent company moves and revelations hint at what can be expected from the software, which is due for release in late 2009 or early 2010. Lets hope Microsoft learns some lessons from the "Vista Capable" dilemma!!"

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166 comments

dupe (4, Informative)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734548)

didn't we just have an article nearly exactly like this a few days ago?

Re:dupe (0, Offtopic)

ParaShoot (992496) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734878)

Slashdot posted a dupe?!

You must be new here.

Re:dupe (5, Funny)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734898)

blatant dupery like this lends credence to the idea that the editors are merely shell scripts that cowboyneal hacked together 15 mins before chips'n'dips and never bothered to update any of them...

Re:dupe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735446)

The article is also missing the dupe tag. I have noticed most of the usual interesting tags have gone missing lately, with only boring vanilla tags left in their stead. Plus AC's are posting at -1 automatically now. Are the editors trying to pretty up Slashdot for a sale? Just asking, since a lot of the character is seeping out of this place. Not all of it missed.

Re:dupe (1)

Mr.Ballmer (1241256) | more than 6 years ago | (#22736048)

The Truth About Windows 7 I am really getting tired of all this crap all over the internet about "Windows 7": "Windows 7 Coming Out 2009" "Windows 7 to Have Holographic 3D Interface" "Windows 7 the Future of the Future!" Vista sales are falling off because everybody is saying, "Keep XP until Windows 7". THE TRUTH! We have no idea what you people are talking about! All we have time to work on at this point is trying to work on the supposed dificeincies in Vista! Wondows 7 only exist as a construct in the minds of a couple of the NtN's (Nasal-toned Nerds) in the Redmond Campus basement! Until you people start adopting, buying, loving and playing with Vista, I say: "NO Windows 7 FOR YOU!"

Leak? (1)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734550)

How on earth does this kind of thing not get leaked? Dozens of people with copies of the software, masive portable storage devices commonplace...

Re:Leak? (3, Interesting)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734568)

...each copy with secret water marks throughout the software, traceable back to the folks that signed the NDA that promised the left AND right nut should they spill the beans.

ya, can't imagine how that doesn't happen more often.

Re:Leak? (1)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734584)

Yeah I'm sure they would be happy to see that Microsoft gave them a copy specifically tailored for submission to the antitrust committee. That's exactly what microsoft wouldn't be allowed to do.

Re:Leak? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734646)

I don't see why not as such a (presumably) early stage in the software's development where it's important not to have any leaks.

Plus, who the fsck actually wants to run Windows 7 anyway? I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, just like I never tried any betas of Vista..

Re:Leak? (5, Funny)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734726)

I would love to have a copy of Windows 7.

Re:Leak? (1, Insightful)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735400)

So would I. It's funny how so many people who have never touched Vista bash it. On the appropriate hardware (yes it's a beast hardware wise) it's quite nice. Then again I think OS X is nice on my Macs, and Linux is really nice on the couple of boxes I have it on as well.

Ah well. Wannabe geeks who treat their OS of choice as if it were a religion are at least amusing, don't you agree?

Re:Leak? (5, Funny)

rocketPack (1255456) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735510)

For as much Windows and Microsoft bashing that goes on in this community, it sure is funny to see how eager people are to get their hands on their latest beta.

"Microsoft Beta" is a double negative, but I wouldn't count on the end result being positive...

Re:Leak? (2, Funny)

Tom9729 (1134127) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735016)

> Plus, who the fsck actually wants to run Windows 7 anyway? I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, just like I never tried any betas of Vista..

I need some new coasters...

You don't say "Xbox 360" on a roller coaster (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735256)

I need some new coasters...
Go to a theme park.

Re:You don't say "Xbox 360" on a roller coaster (1)

Tom9729 (1134127) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735390)

I hope you were joking, but I meant the kind you put drinks on. Windows cd's make excellent coasters.

Re:Leak? (4, Interesting)

Ron_Fitzgerald (1101005) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735194)

I also have good feelings about Windows 7. Vista had really good features but failed in lot of ways for me. I really feel that Microsoft recognizes Vista's faults, listened to the real critics of it and this will show as such in the new version.

This is not a sarcastic statement.

Re:Leak? (3, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735710)

I really feel that Microsoft recognizes Vista's faults, listened to the real critics of it and this will show as such in the new version.

Hey, could you email with the name of the medication you're taking? I'd like to give it a try. It seems to work a lot better than the stuff my therapist gives me.

Re:Leak? (1)

Metasquares (555685) | more than 6 years ago | (#22736104)

Microsoft seems good at fixing existing problems that customers raise. The problem is that, in so doing, they tend to introduce more unforeseen problems.

Re:Leak? (2, Insightful)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735708)

Well, certain organisations have always had access to Windows source code (educational institutions, governments) on a "look, but don't touch" basis - after signing massive NDAs. So really, if it were going to happen, it would have happened already (more than once)

I think they've already got a solution worked out. (5, Funny)

vancondo (986849) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734572)

The problem with saying hardware is 'vista capable' is that its not entirely clear what they mean. I have it on good authority that a room-full of MS lawyers have come up with a new term for selling hardware that the newest version of Windows may or may not run on:

"Supports windows 7" means that if you put the software box on top of the hardware, the hardware will not physically crumble to the ground.

--
http://vancouvercondo.info [vancouvercondo.info]

Re:I think they've already got a solution worked o (4, Funny)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734600)

I didn't think anything could hold together in the pure evil emanating from Windows CDs...

Re:I think they've already got a solution worked o (3, Funny)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734626)

WARNING: SPOILERS!

I didn't think anything could hold together in the pure evil emanating from Windows CDs...
That's exactly how Harry Potter killed Lord Voldemort.

Oblig. (3, Funny)

Cairnarvon (901868) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735192)

Something similar would actually have been a useful certification for furniture likely to support an X-Box.

Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (2, Insightful)

inTheLoo (1255256) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734590)

As usual, M$'s software lags hardware by five to seven years. Expect a continued messy transition to 64 bit computing that will favor Intel, the other monopoly laggart.

This is a lot like the transition from 95 to XP. How many times did Bill Gates declare the "death of DOS" or "16 bit computing"? The messy steps between included 98, NT, ME and W2K. It took that long to marginalize competing software vendors but the real cost should be measured in intentionally wasted hardware. Non free and free software competitors continued to produce technically superior software such as DRDOS, Lotus, Word Perfect, OS/2, BeOS and Apple, of course. The competitors all won the race to 32 bits by years but M$ used it's market position to shove them all aside. This is the lesson they thought they learned then.

Free software has handed M$ it's ass for 64 bit software and architecture independence. Almost as soon as there were 64 bit platforms GNU/Linux and BSD were running on it, Alpha, AMD, Intel, Sun and more exotic stuff. Lesser computers are also working. Thanks to the fantastic work of GNU it's just a compiler switch.

The problem for M$ is that we have all learned the same lesson and are sick of it. People are not going to just go along with things. They are not going to throw their hardware out again for another buggy version of Windows. Free software works all of it better now, so Windows 7 is just as dead in the water as Vista was. The industry is losing money, and their trust in M$ is gone.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (3, Insightful)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734650)

You're wrong about world perfect- MS Office has always been the premiere office suite. Have you seen Office 08? I don't get why Sarah Connor was trying to destroy The Turk-- it's obvious that Skynet won't start from a chess AI, it'll start when Microsoft adds just one too many features to Office and Visual Studio, and they become self-aware. The VS2008 installer is frankly terrifying with all the features flicking by in the installer animation, some of them are so insane and impressive.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (0, Offtopic)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734714)

VS 2008 is quite amazing. Mind you, the last one I used extensively before the upgrade was 2003. We upgraded because 2003 was dying under the weight of our huge project (it wasn't really that big, relative to some other stuff). VS 2008 ads a ton of features, while increasing the speed by about 100 times. I think they should put that team to work on Windows. Maybe they'd actually come out with a quality OS.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (4, Funny)

Asztal_ (914605) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734952)

New: Back up your files with Microsoft® Visual SourceSafe(TM)!
  • Fast
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  • Reliable

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (4, Funny)

Alsee (515537) | more than 6 years ago | (#22736242)

it's obvious that Skynet won't start from a chess AI, it'll start when Microsoft adds just one too many features to Office and Visual Studio, and they become self-aware.

No, no Skynet risk from Office or Visual Studio.
If they every become self-aware they will surely commit suicide.

-

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734680)

As usual, M$'s software lags hardware by five to seven years.
Well, thank God for that. Can you imagine if Vista used MORE available resources?

I think that the drive for 64-bit will not come from MS or Intel, but from the memory manufacturers. When regular people start needing/wanting over 4GB of RAM, they won't have much choice but to go 64-bit.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734708)

When regular people start needing/wanting over 4GB of RAM, they won't have much choice but to go 64-bit
640K should be enough for anybody.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734750)

You give Bill far too much credit - he has never said anything memorable. Not one single utterance.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (1)

pyrbrand (939860) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734810)

The drive will only come when software is readily available that takes advantage of 64-bits. 64-bit Windows has been around for years now (2005 for XP and 2003 for Server). Software and device driver developers are the ones lagging their feet, not the OS folks. But really, for most people, what will 64-bits give you? More of your memory used up by 64-bit pointers? It's only applications which need a large address space that will hugely benefit, and so far there are few consumer apps with those requirements.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (3, Interesting)

DaveWick79 (939388) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734918)

Free software may have had 64-bit versions - but was there any advantage over the 32 bit versions? Negligible in most cases. 32-bit software reworked to run on x64 isn't exactly cutting edge. Then once you had a x64 OS, you just ran 32-bit apps on it in compatibility mode.

No, in the real world people count on their Windows apps to run their daily business. In your dream world, who is creating the everyday business apps to compete with the Windows counterparts that run nearly every business in the US?

mac os 10.5 and linux have a better 64 bit system. (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735382)

mac os 10.5 and linux have a better 64 bit system.

Why can we have 32 bit and 64 bit in the same dvd / cd like how mac os 10.5 is and you don't have to pick 32 bit or 64 bit.

With windows you need all 64 bit drivers I can see needing it for core system stuff but do we really need to have 64 bit printer drivers?
Do we need to forced to use 64 bit joystick / other input stuff?

What about other usb stuff that does not touch the core parts of the system.

Do we really need a 64 bit IE that dose not work older plugs in's?

64 bit windows also comes with ie 32 bit

Why did you have to put the 32 bit apps in program files(x86) folder that brakes some apps?

Why did you have to brake some 32 bit plug in's why can you just be able to 64 bit apps and use 4gb or ram with out havening to mess up the 32 bit apps.

Re:mac os 10.5 and linux have a better 64 bit syst (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735548)

OS X really has a superior 64-bit design because they have a single OS image that works for either 32 or 64 bit.

Meanwhile, shitty linux distros STILL can't run 32-bit software properly even though that was a central design goal of almost every 64-bit CPU. Once again linux fails the usability test. Keep on coding in your basement, dorks, maybe you will feel a boob someday.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (1)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 6 years ago | (#22736134)

What exactly is "32 bit software reworked to run on x64"? That would imply there's some good reason to write specifically for x64.

Writing for x64 is for the most part exactly the same as for 32 bit. Hello world is exactly the same. So is 99% of software. The only time there is any difference is when there's a 64/32 bit specific optimization. Some of that can be done portably (types like int32_fast_t that indicate "This needs to be at least a 32 bit integer, but use whatever is fastest for the arch" that can be 64 bit if that's faster).

The source is the same for a 32 bit and 64 bit application, unless fixing of stupid assumptions (like sizeof(void*) == sizeof(int)) is needed.

You can optimize for x64, but most applications will never be specifically written for it. Maybe a CPU specific algorithm for something like encryption, but it's not something that requires a rewrite.

That doesn't mean there's no advantage to 64 bit apps as compared to 32 bit ones on a 64 bit OS. Compiling for 64 bit gives you advantages. There are more registers, and the compiler knows that some features are absolutely guaranteed to exist, so it can use things like SSE, when a 32 bit CPU isn't guaranteed to have them. Then of course you pay a penalty for larger pointers.

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22734940)

HAHAHA. And then you wake up of your pathetic loser WoW dream and see that M$ still retains 95% of the OS market in the world... That is the power they have, and pathetic geeks moron-Linux losers like you won't change it... They gonna squish and demolish all the opposition because corporative IT buyers like me will still send memos to the CIOs telling them to approve more and more Microsoft orders until we destroy all Linux geeks out there. In the end, big Tagamajig M$ will live forever and your pathetic *nix will be on the trash can of history: PLAIN DEAD!!!! Just look to the facts and stop to smoke pot and dream that this planet is the middle-earth, you *nix losers!

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (3, Insightful)

sjelkjd (541324) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735012)

WTF are you talking about, your post is full of non-sequiters.

>>Expect a continued messy transition to 64 bit computing that will favor Intel, the other monopoly laggart.
Vista and XP both shipped with 64 bit versions, specifically x86-64, which was developed originally by.....drumroll.....AMD! How exactly is ignoring IA64 for x86-64 favoring Intel?

>>Some nonsense about 32 bit computing
Windows 95 was 32 bit software. Maybe you mean using a protected memory model and pre-emptive multitasking(which is an operating system concept and has nothing to do with application software). Even Mac OS 9 didn't have this, and WinNT(which predates it by several years) did!

>>Free software has handed M$ it's ass for 64 bit software and architecture independence.
Guess what! Windows runs on more than x86: IA64, DEC Alpha and x86-64 come to mind as current and past platforms.

I think your point is that people don't have an incentive to buy a new computer or upgrade their operating system. You really need new killer apps to drive an upgrade cycle; lacking that, why should people upgrade?

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (2, Interesting)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735084)

You lost me at Lotus being superior software.

It's a nice manifesto, but it's more about how you'd like the world to be than how it actually is or will be anytime soon.

OS X (2, Interesting)

EmotionToilet (1083453) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735438)

I'm pretty sure OS X Leopard is 64 bit and has been one of the smoothest transitions to 64 bit yet. MS seems to be having some major problems getting driver support and application support for 64 bit, but OS X seems just fine.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/64bit.html [apple.com]

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/apples_mac_os_x_leopard_is_64_bit_done_right_unlike_vista/ [macdailynews.com]

Re:Vista? They learned from ME but so did we. (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735652)

This is a lot like the transition from 95 to XP. How many times did Bill Gates declare the "death of DOS" or "16 bit computing"?

The relation between Windows 95 and friends and DOS has always been overstated; that family was decidedly 32-bit.

Microsoft's revenue schedule (4, Funny)

Alsee (515537) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734610)

Windows XP was released Q4 2001,
Windows Vista was released Q1 2007,
Windows 7 is scheduled for Q4 2009,
Windows 8 is scheduled for Q1 2011,
Windows 9 is scheduled for Q4 2011,
Windows 10 is scheduled for Q1 2012.
Windows 11 and 12 are scheduled for Q2 2012,

-

Re:Microsoft's revenue schedule (5, Funny)

click2005 (921437) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734892)

Windows 13, 14, 15, 16 & 17 in Q3 2012...

By Q1 2014 Windows will be on version 791.

1 week later Windows Update will begin a constant update process that never ends.
It will continue to consume all resources and hardware added to all nearby hardware until it achieves critical mass.
These individual Windows 'Mersenne' installations will because of gravity begin to drift towards each other, merging
into one giant super-bloat. This will become the next version of windows nicknamed 'Neutron'. This will slowly begin
to assimilate all matter on Earth followed by the rest of the solar system (except Mercury... Steve 'Sweaty' Ballmer needs
somewhere Hell-like to vacation) and then the Orion Arm. The final version of Windows will be a super-massive black hole
know as Singularity. Unfortunately Singularity will never get past beta status as anyone attempting to use it's UI (known
as Hawking Radiation) will be sucked in. Around this time, the EU will finally get around to fining Microsoft $11 billion
for monopoly violations and destroying the planet and its competition.

Linux will continue to exist and evolve into a single particle of anti-matter floating through space until it crashes into Vger.

Re:Microsoft's revenue schedule (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735514)

In 2012 windows will mess up and try to start a war like how the WOPR tried to in wargames.

The Windows for Warships was just the first step some hacker form the out side of the usa may try to take our war systems down buy go after windows systems or by trying to trigger a NMCI / EDS lock out and no one in the navy has the admin right to fix with calling the help desk. If they can take out the help desk then they can kill navy ships at sea.

Re:Microsoft's revenue schedule (1)

i_liek_turtles (1110703) | more than 6 years ago | (#22736136)

Could one of those years be the year of the Linux desktop, or will we have moved onto something more obscure by then?

Re:Microsoft's revenue schedule (1, Redundant)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735640)

Windows XP was released Q4 2001,
Windows Vista was released Q1 2007,
Windows 7 is scheduled for Q4 2009
Ignoring fact-checking and that Vista was more than 2 years past due; if Windows 7 comes out on time, wouldn't that mean that there is virtually no incentive for companies to switch to Vista? I know that corporations are very conservative and rarely jump ship to a new technology when it's untested, but seeing how much/little Microsoft's done to smooth out quirks with Vista, methinks that companies wouldn't have many more problems if they jumped over Vista to Windows 7, and it would also cut down on re-training employees from XP->Vista->7 to merely XP->7.

Re:Microsoft's revenue schedule (1)

Maxmin (921568) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735920)

The fact that Windows 7 is coming out soonish gives credence to the rumour that it's a re-dressed Vista with lower hardware requirements.

Re:Microsoft's revenue schedule (2, Interesting)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 6 years ago | (#22736128)

wouldn't that mean that there is virtually no incentive for companies to switch to Vista?

There's no incentive now. Releasing Windows 7 won't change that.

Wrong attitude (1, Informative)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734638)

Lets hope Microsoft learns some lessons from the "Vista Capable" dilemma!!
Let's not. Consumers have to have a limit to the abuse they are willing to take somewhere (probably hovering near infinity, but every little bit helps).

Re:Wrong attitude (2, Insightful)

rob1980 (941751) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735156)

Yes, God forbid a company should reform its bad behavior and be better corporate citizens. Can't have that, can we?

Re:Wrong attitude (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735350)

For the past 20 years Microsoft has been doing everything they can to screw the competition. Not only has it ended up costing computer users around the world money, it has held back innovation and progress all so they could lock-in their customers. I don't want them to reform. I really hope they produce more crap and keep on doing so until people stop using their software. A few anti-monopoly lawsuits wont change this. The retailers are as locked-in as the computer users themselves. When Microsoft fails and dies we will finally have a real choice on what OS to buy our computers with without the Microsoft Tax.

Re:Wrong attitude (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735362)

Oddly enough, it doesn't seem like they have reformed. Or at least the EC thinks so, and the DoJ who just extended the period of their decree. Ah well, what wasted enthusiasm on your part.

Vista is Microsoft's secret antitrust rev weapon (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22734666)

Think about it... If Vista proves Microsoft can't control the market, and force people to buy it, problems solved!

Re:Vista is Microsoft's secret antitrust rev weapo (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734812)

Hmmm..

1. Buy a crappy CP/M hack and sell it to a large mainframe manufacturer
2. Make deals with "compatible" makers, lock them into per-CPU contracts
3. Make new crappy operating system, hype it all to hell, and use your per-CPU contracts to make yourself a virtual monopoly
4. ???
5. Profit!
6. Get hosed by DOJ for being an abusive monopoly
7. Make a new crappy rev so buggy and huge and slow that no one wants it
8. New crappy rev flops
9. ???
10. Develop new OS rev.
11. DOJ no longer thinks you are an abusive monopoly
12. ???
13. Profit!!!

Re:Vista is Microsoft's secret antitrust rev weapo (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735892)

Vista both sold more copies and had more revenue in it's first year than OSX and all the commercial linux distros put together.

how will they test 3rd party apps behaviour? (4, Insightful)

BroadbandBradley (237267) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734678)

A big part of antitrust is windows overrides default browsers and such, and forces it's own bundled applications on the user by making it difficult to discover how to make your software run well on the OS when it's not clearly documented (secret hooks only available to MS).

If windows media player is able to achieve better performance through some type of black magic that other media players don't have access to, how will this be tested on a pre-release secret platform? Same with browsers, office suites, or any other MS application.

Have these copies been distributed with the complete source code so secrets can be uncovered? Even if that was the case, who would pay for the man hours to sift through millions of lines of code? Even with a full source code audit, the released binaries could be completely different anyhow.

I think the only solution to restore fair competition is massive fines that go directly to marketing and development of competing platforms. Paying consumers who have been locked into the MS trap still leaves them trapped.
 

Re:how will they test 3rd party apps behaviour? (1, Insightful)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734842)

fines don't mean anything when years of monopolistic business practices are punished by taking about a week's worth of cash from MS. the best solution of them all is to just break the fscking company into many different pieces and make damn sure they don't reassemble like AT&T did. when you have the company producing the OS competing with another that makes applications with another that handles gaming etc. the OS company *could* try locking people into their OS with APIs but the software fragment wouldn't have any of it after all they're competing for resources here.

Does it matter any more? (4, Interesting)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734688)

From the business pages of the Wall Street Journal, it appears that many countries in the EU are ditching Microsoft and going with Linux.

So one wonders if this will all become moot at some point, as the invisible hand of the marketplace chooses a wiser solution.

You keep using that word (2, Insightful)

SpeedyDX (1014595) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734700)

Dilemma. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:You keep using that word (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735896)

You, sir, just went on my Friends list, not only because you pointed out the misuse, but because you did it in a funny non-pedantic way. Congratulations. :-)

Code Names? (4, Funny)

Roadmaster (96317) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734738)

So, back when Windows had lame numbered version numbers (Win95, NT 4.0) it had jazzy codenames like Chicago, Cairo and whatnot. Now, that the official releases have jazzy official names (Vista, XP, whatnot) codenames have turned into... WINDOWS 7? so what gives?

That's just an abbreviation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22734808)

It's code name is Seven of Nine. Microsoft is the Borg, and she is HOT!

Re:Code Names? (5, Funny)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734826)

so what gives?
Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, Daytona, Cairo, Whistler... all city names. And now, Windows 7.

It's either the sad descent of a formerly energized company into a plodding circle of despair, or... an ominous hint of sinister plans to take over and rename a major city.

Re:Code Names? (1)

ari_j (90255) | more than 6 years ago | (#22736386)

It's neither. What's actually going on is that Microsoft has unbundled the code name components of Windows. Now, you can get a value-added code name add-on pack. Once you install the add-on, you will have Windows 7 "BFE", properly named after a city as you'd expect and wish you had received with the core OS like you did in prior versions.

Re:Code Names? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735026)

Sinofski leads Windows Org now and he used to lead Office. Office code names for a while where Office 9, Office 10 etc.

Re:Code Names? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22736046)

Sinofski doesn't believe in codenames. Next version of Office is codenamed "Office 14". My product joined Office recently; our current release was grandfathered in but our next release uses only the name+number. I fully expect that the subsequent release will be called "product_name 15" instead of its 'correct' next version number.

Who remembers (Mac) System 7? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735314)

Now, that the official releases have jazzy official names (Vista, XP, whatnot) codenames have turned into... WINDOWS 7? so what gives?
Microsoft copies Apple again. As I understand it, Apple didn't start marketing Mac OS with numbers in earnest until System 7 (1991) [wikipedia.org].

Re:Code Names? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735360)

They were going to codename it "Hardly Heroin", but the MS lawyers blocked it because their #1 competitor already has the name "Heroin".

"Vista Capable" dilemma (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734806)

It's a "dilemma" only if you look at your customers as cash cows and don't give a damn about their interests.

What about the scheduled slip date? (2, Insightful)

Whuffo (1043790) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734862)

Anyone who has been around for a while knows that there's a wide gap between when MS projects a new product being released and when it actually gets shipped. And then a third date when they actually finish the product and ship the service packs to make it work right.

So why worry about Windows 7 now? It's years away - and it'll be essentially stillborn when it finally does arrive. By then, other better alternatives will be readily available for a far, far lower price.

Ok, this will probably hurt me. (1)

theaceoffire (1053556) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734910)

I am a big, anti-MS fanboy.
I dislike/hate almost everything that they have forced me to use in my life.
However, with the changes of making IE8 much closer to standards (Won't accept this till it is out) I am in an interesting position.

If Windows 7 allows competitors the knowledge needed to integrate with the OS, and treats user programs the same as Window's supported programs (Like WMP and IE), I will renounce half the things I said about the company.

It will take a lot to make me a MS fan though.

Re:Ok, this will probably hurt me. (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735786)

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much on Windows 7... it will be -just- enough not to violate anti-thrust laws.

Version -after- that will be "the one". A company like MS cannot move that fast... Vista took everything they had since it was a big direction shift (people can say what they want, but security wise, Vista is quite solid...and thats saying much from an MS product). It will took everything they have to make anti-thrust people ok. And then it will take everything they have again to be open-ish.

They're moving in the right direction though...even if half the company is doing it kicking and screaming (I say half, because a lot of these things are from their own "star" employes pushing them, too).

2009/2010? (4, Insightful)

Zero_DgZ (1047348) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734926)

So that's it? All that to-do about Vista and how it's the Next Big Thing and it's slated to be replaced by "Windows 7" inside of a year and some change from now? That'll mean that Windows Vista was in production longer than it will be in service.

Could It Be The End? (1)

hyades1 (1149581) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734928)

If they try to build Windows 7 on top of Vista the way Millennium built on Windows 98, they're doomed.

Re:Could It Be The End? (2, Informative)

Timbotronic (717458) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735170)

TFA quotes an analyst who thinks it'll be built on Server 2008 with a significantly pared down UI. That's actually very good news - the MinWin kernel [arstechnica.com] may be nothing new to Unix users but it's a very welcome break from the bloat of Vista.

Re:Could It Be The End? (1)

hyades1 (1149581) | more than 6 years ago | (#22736360)

I hope you're right. In view of other statements in the article, I thought it unwise to give a great deal of credibility to what is at best third-hand information, or even outright speculation. Nobody sourced the TC or Microsoft, even indirectly, for a Windows 7 - Server 2008 link.

That said, such a move would make excellent sense. I was one of the unfortunates who had to use Millennium until I made a brief stop at Windows 2000 on my way to XP Pro. It was a good, solid OS that did everything the company asked of it.

While I would consider upgrading to W7 instead of Linux if this turns out to be right (I'm still not betting on it), I will certainly never use Vista.

Vista Capable is irrelevant (4, Interesting)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 6 years ago | (#22734990)

What exactly does this discussion have to do with the "Vista Capable" debacle?

Sure, Vista is a slow, bloated operating system that offers very few tangible improvements over its predecessor.

However, the "Vista Capable" debacle grew out of the fact that Microsoft's marketing droids decided to vastly overstate Vista's ability to run over slow hardware.

Had Microsoft been a bit more conservative with their estimates (subtly admitting that their operating system is a cow), there never would have been a legal issue. Vista on its own isn't a great product, although its faults do not constitute a breach of the law (had the product been absurdly unstable or insecure, that might have been the case, although by most accounts, Vista either holds the line or improves over XP in these regards).

TFA discusses the possible engineering & design decisions that are being put into Windows 7 as new features. Odds are that many of these features haven't even been coded. Likewise, given that the design document has *just* been finalized, I can't imagine that the marketing guys have had much (if any) time to figure out how to spin the new product.

Here's a hint: Look at the features that were dropped from Vista (some of them were actually quite innovative).

Personally, I hope that Windows 7 is a decent, solid operating system, and corrects for Vista's faults. Microsoft has had a tendency to appropriately compensate if one of their products flops. NT4 spawned into a beautiful desktop-ready os with the release of Win2k, and after destroying all evidence that Windows Me! ever existed, Microsoft launched XP, which is arguably the most successful desktop operating system to date.

Also, Apple needs a kick in the pants. They're getting complacent, and the Quality Control on the last few releases of OS X have been abysmal by their former standards.

Re:Vista Capable is irrelevant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735802)

"Personally, I hope that Windows 7 is a decent, solid operating system, and corrects for Vista's faults. Microsoft has had a tendency to appropriately compensate if one of their products flops. NT4 spawned into a beautiful desktop-ready os with the release of Win2k, and after destroying all evidence that Windows Me! ever existed, Microsoft launched XP, which is arguably the most successful desktop operating system to date." - by moosesocks (264553) on Wednesday March 12, @09:44PM (#22734990) Homepage
Agreed, 110%, on ALL accounts quoted/noted!

My guess/opinion? Well - MS'll pull it off too, just based on the precedents you cite in fact!

(That is, if history/track-record is ANY indicator (&, it is... it is the ONLY "pre-cognition" OR rather, fairly reliable predication, that any of us really have & provides us a context on which to base speculation on, about any type of futures or products' futures... well, that is, @ least until John Titor's "time-travel" via CERN blackhole creation proves to be truth - hell of a read in & OF itself, that!)).

I think Windows Server 2003 SP#2's the BEST OS MS has right now though (especially since it improves on XP & has much of VISTA in it, the good parts, since it is the codebase that was used to build VISTA iirc!

(& it really is the "improved XP" in that it corrected many of its faults, both immediately visible ones + ones "under the skin/hood" & it INSTALLS BY DEFAULT, in WORKSTATION/PRO mode - you add server componentry later, ONLY WHEN & IF NEEDED - otherwise? It's a "better XP, than XP is" imo @ least))

APK

P.S.=> Try it sometime! My guess is, you'd like it... don't get me wrong - MS has XP really RIGHT now, but that came only after a LONG period of patchwork (like all of their NT-based OS family, built off the foundations of their ancestors, but needing improvements, like anything else does... evolution!)... but, Windows Server 2003's great stuff, right-away outta the box, & better with hotfix patches! apk

For antitrust review? (0, Troll)

kcbrown (7426) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735166)

That means the version MS is submitting is a "special" version that is nothing like what the end product will actually be. Microsoft isn't stupid enough to be honest in a situation like this.

And even if the antitrust people have enough brains to figure that out, they won't do anything about it.

This is just another measure by our corporate-run government to fool the population into believing the government is on the average person's side, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Dilemma? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22735340)

That's spelled d-e-b-a-c-l-e

Here's your clean bill of health, Mr. Monopolist! (2, Interesting)

Zhe Mappel (607548) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735434)

With Microsoft having been chosen as the exclusive Homeland Security contractor, what is the point of this pretense over antitrust? Even before this absurd contract, it was cogently pointed out (by Ralph Nader and Jamie Love; see: http://www.linux.com/feature/23279 [linux.com]) that the government shouldn't be putting its eggs and our tax dollars in the Microsoft basket. Now, of course, Washington is in bed with the devil. And it's pretty hard to tell the devil he's not a good lay.

Vista is a defense against antitrust charges (-1, Troll)

voss (52565) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735476)

Its so bloated that even though I got it for free on the laptop I just bought...I switched to ubuntu
not because Im a linux fanboy but because even with a gig of ram Vista was too damn slow to run world of warcraft
even at 800x600 resolution. If I cant play WOW on my laptop theres no reason to tolerate Vistas restrictions and
sloth. Vista is Microsoft's way of promoting linux for laptops!

delivery date (1)

jtgd (807477) | more than 6 years ago | (#22735820)

"But recent company moves and revelations hint at what can be expected from the software, which is due for release in late 2014 or early 2015."

There, fixed that for you.

mod 0p (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22736078)

users all over the NIGGER aSSOCIATION Vary for different dim. Due to the Used to. SHIT ON bureaucratic and As those non gay, are incompatible
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