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The Night the IETF Shut Off IPv4

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 6 years ago | from the fun-with-switches dept.

Networking 208

IP Freely writes "At this year's Internet Engineering Task Force meeting in Philadelphia, conference organizers shut off IPv4 for an hour. Surprisingly, chaos did not ensue. 'After everyone got his or her system up and running, many people started looking for IPv6-reachable web sites, reporting those over Jabber instant messaging — which posed its own challenges in the IPv6 department. I was surprised at the number of sites and wide range of content available over IPv6. Apart from — obviously — IPv6-related sites; they ranged from "the largest Gregorian music collection in Internet" to "hardcore torrents." Virtually none of the better known web destinations were reachable over IPv6. That changed when ipv6.google.com popped into existence.'"

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hmm (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22753938)

Does the lameness of this story make anyone feel uncomfortable? Seriously, I'm all for being nerdy, but the thought of random conference-goers configuring ipv6 and talking over jabber is a little too much, even for me.

Hardcore Torrents (5, Funny)

rrkap (634128) | more than 6 years ago | (#22753946)

I'm glad to know that the internet will still be able to fulfill its primary purpose as a porn distribution channel when we switch over to ipv6.

Re:Hardcore Torrents (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754334)

Ha! You're thinking of the wrong meaning for that word. It's actually referring to the musical genre.

Yeah, that's great but... (5, Funny)

Reality Master 201 (578873) | more than 6 years ago | (#22753958)

More about the hardcore torrents, please.

Re:Yeah, that's great but... (4, Funny)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754930)

I keep waiting for somebody to say "This thread is useless without pictures."

Re:Yeah, that's great but... (1)

Dibblah (645750) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755042)

Pictures? This isn't the eighties any more. Videos!

Re:Yeah, that's great but... (1)

risk one (1013529) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755036)

There were also hardcore swirls and hardcore eddies. Fluid dynamicists are all about the IPv6.

Careful what you ask for. (4, Funny)

uhlume (597871) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755174)

"Hardcore torrents"? Probably a pee fetish site.

Okay... (5, Interesting)

TFer_Atvar (857303) | more than 6 years ago | (#22753966)

Who else put ipv6.google.com in their address bar just to see what would happen?

Re:Okay... (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22753986)

Me. Connection refused.

Re:Okay... (5, Funny)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754082)

Me too, but I got redirected to a google search for ipv6.google.com.

Re:Okay... (1)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754278)

Me three but I don't get redirected :( I'm on my school's network, I guess they don't support IPv6.

Re:Okay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754478)

Me thirty-one, but it doesn't resolve.

Re:Okay... (5, Funny)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755090)

I got redirected to a Cool Web Search for ipv6.google.com. Also, the words 'redirected' and 'google' in your post are hyperlinks underlined in green that give me search results for 'redirected' and 'google' in my area. There are also many informative pop-up windows offering services ranging from pornography to tiny wireless cameras.

Re:Okay... (2, Informative)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755012)

I got that at first, then I remembered firefox disables ipv6 by default. To enable it you have to go into about:config and reenable it.

Leave it disabled though, it murders your browsing speed.

Re:Okay... (4, Funny)

webword (82711) | more than 6 years ago | (#22753998)

** damn your eyes! **

Yes, I tried. And yes, I just lost geek points. (-1)

"Natalie Portman + Linux" (+1)

We'll call it even, OK?

Re:Okay... (5, Funny)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754016)

"Natalie Portman + Linux" (+1)

I think you probably lose another geek point for bad syntax on that one. You likely wanted

"Natalie Portman" + Linux

Instead. We'll take your card at the door...

Re:Okay... (4, Funny)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754214)

"Natalie Portman" + Linux
Why operator overloading and templates are a bad idea...

Re:Okay... (3, Funny)

UncleTogie (1004853) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754658)

Not to mention the exclusion of (+ "grits")...

Re:Okay... (4, Informative)

DeadBeef (15) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754020)

I did, the google logo does a little dance, other than that it just looks like google.

I guess I was expecting too much, but the sites that are indexed appear to be just the regular ipv4 sites, so they have ipv6 enabled the web frontend to the search engine but not the back end that goes and crawls the web.

Re:Okay... (4, Informative)

stsp (979375) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754436)

I did, the google logo does a little dance, other than that it just looks like google.
The logo can also be seen with IPv4: http://www.google.com/images/ipv6_logo.gif [google.com]

Re:Okay... (5, Funny)

merreborn (853723) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754926)

I did, the google logo does a little dance, other than that it just looks like google.
The logo can also be seen with IPv4: http://www.google.com/images/ipv6_logo.gif [google.com]
Wow, is all of the IPv6 internet this much cooler than the regular old, boring IPv4 internet? No one told me IPv6 animates corporate logos! WHY HAVEN'T WE MIGRATED YET?

Re:Okay... (0)

stsp (979375) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755128)

Wow, is all of the IPv6 internet this much cooler than the regular old, boring IPv4 internet?
IPv6 is not about new content. And the dancing kame.net turtle is way cuter than a dancing corporate logo of course.

WHY HAVEN'T WE MIGRATED YET?
I have. Why haven't you migrated yet? :)

Re:Okay... (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754576)

I did, the google logo does a little dance, other than that it just looks like google.

Just remember kame.net got there first with their turtle ;)

Re:Okay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754696)

OK. Is that the address to find the "hardcore torrents"?

Re:Okay... (5, Informative)

Sesse (5616) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754808)

Hi. I work (among other things) with IPv6 in Google, although I was only distantly released to this launch (some of my code was used in the monitoring components). It's nice to see we're getting attention :-)

You're entirely right that at the moment, only web search has an AAAA record. (However, with some trickery, you can get several other Google services running too -- just add /etc/hosts lines to the same IP, and you'll probably be able to run Maps, GMail and several others over IPv6.) We don't yet crawl, send or receive e-mail, or support GTalk over IPv6, and we definitely cannot guarantee anything about the uptime of the IPv6 versions of our services. (We've had a few years to make a production-grade IPv4 network, give us some time to make it IPv6-ready too!) Think of it as the first baby step; although we don't have a roadmap published (we almost never talk about future products in Google) I think it's pretty safe to say that there will be more.

Whether there should be services that are not available over IPv4, though, is an entirely different discussion. If you had a cool service and could offer it to the world, would you keep it away from 99.9% of the Internet just because you could?

/* Steinar */
- Software engineer, Google Norway

Re:Okay... (1, Informative)

corsec67 (627446) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754060)

#dig ipv6.google.com
 
; <<>> DiG 9.3.4 <<>> ipv6.google.com
;; global options: printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 40073
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
 
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;ipv6.google.com. IN A
 
;; ANSWER SECTION:
ipv6.google.com. 10166 IN CNAME ipv6.l.google.com.
ipv6.l.google.com. 0 IN A 208.69.32.130
 
;; Query time: 206 msec
;; SERVER: 10.0.0.1#53(10.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Fri Mar 14 13:35:53 2008
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 70
Not having an A record would make it quite hard to view, so I didn't even try.

Re:Okay... (2, Funny)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754156)

Not having an A record would make it quite hard to view, so I didn't even try.
So instead of just pasting the site in your address bar to see what was there, you did a dig query on it?

Sorry, I don't really mean to sound sarcastic... Friday afternoon...

Re:Okay... (0)

corsec67 (627446) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754310)

Well, I always have about 10 terminals open, so it is right there. And I like using the command line.

And, your Friday is better than mine:

There IS an A record right there in my query, with the IP of 208.69.32.130. Just that IP doesn't have a HTTP server on it. It has a TTL of 0, so it is looks like it might change often.

Re:Okay... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754602)

$ host 208.69.32.130
130.32.69.208.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer hit-nxdomain.opendns.com.

Re:Okay... (1)

corsec67 (627446) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754736)

Ah, thanks. I did think that might be because of opendns.

Yay for fucked up DNS results.

Re:Okay... (4, Informative)

DavidTC (10147) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754180)

That's the point. It's IPv6 only:
$ dig ipv6.google.com aaaa

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;ipv6.google.com.               IN      AAAA

;; ANSWER SECTION:
ipv6.google.com.        10792   IN      CNAME   ipv6.l.google.com.
ipv6.l.google.com.      5       IN      AAAA    2001:4860:0:2001::68
ipv6.l.google.com.      5       IN      AAAA    2001:4860:0:1001::68

Re:Okay... (1)

AceJohnny (253840) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754220)

what are you talking about? The log you posted specifically showed an A record!
By default, dig asks for an A record. try 'dig ipv6.google.com AAAA'. I got the following:

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;ipv6.google.com. IN AAAA
 
;; ANSWER SECTION:
ipv6.google.com. 10642 IN CNAME ipv6.l.google.com.
ipv6.l.google.com. 5 IN AAAA 2001:4860:0:1001::68
ipv6.l.google.com. 5 IN AAAA 2001:4860:0:2001::68
I could connect to ipv6.google.com, but I run IPv6 along IPv6, and I didn't bother checking whether the connection was through IPv5 or IPv6, since, as we have shown, ipv6.google.com has both an A (for IPv) and AAAA (for IPv6) records.

Hm, I must be missing something, or all this is in a flux: I don't get an A record anymore, though I got one 5 mins ago.

Re:Okay... (2, Funny)

AceJohnny (253840) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754236)

I could connect to ipv6.google.com, but I run IPv6 along IPv6, and I didn't bother checking whether the connection was through IPv5 or IPv6, since, as we have shown, ipv6.google.com has both an A (for IPv) and AAAA (for IPv6) records.

Damn, I managed to mistype every "IPv4" reference. There must be a meaning for this...
I meant "IPv4 along IP6" and "through IPv4 or IPv6" and "(for IPv4)"

Re:Okay... (4, Funny)

bcmm (768152) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754252)

You use IPv5?

Wow, that's obscure.

Re:Okay... (1)

Neil Hodges (960909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754542)

I thought we were moving away from realtime connection-based protocols (IPv5), as in POTS. Even cell phone companies are interested into moving towards packet-based systems. Although IPv5 still uses packets, it's more realtime-oriented than TCP (which is not really saying anything).

Does nslookup support IPv6? I didn't get much of a conclusive response from it as far as IP addresses are concerned:

% nslookup -all -type=ptr ipv6.google.com

Set options:
novc nodebug nod2
search recurse
timeout = 0 retry = 3 port = 53
querytype = A class = IN
srchlist =
Server: 140.142.15.27
Address: 140.142.15.27#53

Non-authoritative answer:
ipv6.google.com canonical name = ipv6.l.google.com.

Authoritative answers can be found from:
l.google.com
origin = a.l.google.com
mail addr = dns-admin.google.com
serial = 1339473
refresh = 900
retry = 900
expire = 1800
minimum = 60

IPv5 (4, Interesting)

jd (1658) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754986)

I believe IPv5 is formally defined as TUBA, although another poster mentions realtime connections (which wouldn't seem to be an IP version, per se, but the layer running over IP) and POTS (which I'm damn sure is a layer 1 to layer 2 concept). There's also an IPv7. As far as I know, no TUBA drivers exist for Linux (damn shame) and I'm very certain no services (eg: DNS) exist for it.

(When it comes to Linux support for protocols, it's a popular platform for early developers, but maintenance can be an issue. enSKIP and SGI's STP code are abandonware, the real-time network driver for RTAI is infrequently updated, and the GAMMA Active Messages driver is seriously stalled in a number of areas. Many updates to Web100 have just been kernel increment updates, not bugfixes or added features. I don't recall seeing any support for VIA - which is fair enough, given it's dead - or iWarp. Linux' QoS supports RED, but neglected BLUE, GREEN, BLACK, WHITE and PURPLE the last time I looked.)

Re:Okay... (1)

daveb (4522) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754744)

JEESE!!

you didn't REALLY expect to get useful technical information information from DIG [dig.com] did you?

oh

wait ...

Re:Okay... (2, Interesting)

michaelwigle (822387) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754368)

Ok, I got a server not found from work and from home so I can only assume I'm not set up right in either place. So, who can point me to what's probably wrong (for home, not work)? I'm running a NetGear router (don't remember what model) but I presume it doesn't support IPV6. Does that mean I have to replace my router in order to be able to view IPV6-only sites? How do I know if I buy a new router that it will support them?

Re:Okay... (2, Informative)

jd (1658) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755024)

If you want to do things the hard way, you could try: OpenWRT [openwrt.org] . If you prefer the easy way, use a tunnel broker. Then only your machine needs to support IPv6, your router doesn't.

Re:Okay... (4, Informative)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755056)

Pretty much no home routers support ipv6.

Basically you can either buy a cisco and upgrade to an ISP that'll route ipv6 (that's the neatest way of doing it, but is expensive and limits your ISP choice), or if you can get hold of an old WRT54G you can install a custom firmware that supports ipv6 and create a tunnel to a tunnel broker somewhere - it'll be much slower (tunnel latency is typically 300ms+ for the first hop because there are so few of them) but you'll be 'on' the ipv6 internet.

Re:Okay... (1)

jarndt (553380) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754384)

When I go to http://ipv6.google.com/ [google.com] I just get redirected to http://www.google.com/ig?hl=en [google.com]

If I go to the IPv6 addresses that ipv6.google.com resolves to, I get no animation.

(BTW, it seems like Slash does not like numeric IPv6 URLs. The brackets and colons get stripped out.)

Homage to Dancing Kame (2, Interesting)

Cadre (11051) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754450)

I did, though I expected it to work since I have had IPv6 access for awhile now. I just didn't know that Google had an IPv6 site. Google's homage to the dancing Kame is pretty nice.

Re:Okay... (5, Informative)

mobilesteve (899951) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754488)

If you really want to see what Google's IPv6 page looks like, you can use SixXs's IPv6 to IPv4 looking glass: http://ipv6.google.com.ipv4.sixxs.org/ [sixxs.org]

Re:Okay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754568)

haha - i did.

Re:Okay... (1)

Begs (599325) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754706)

Uh... Excuse me! It is GEOrgian music. NOT gregorian chant!

Welcome to Largest
GEORGIAN Music Collection in Internet.

What a disappointment! I was all set for some neums in song.T

Re:Okay... (1)

The Mgt (221650) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754872)

Me. It's now my homepage.

Ars, Ars, Ars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22753990)

Can Slashdot just link to every Ars Technica and New Scientist story published, please?

So what's the Gregorian music website? (3, Informative)

MichaelCrawford (610140) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754018)

My Googling hasn't yielded any insight. I should be listing them from my article Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Downloads [goingware.com] .

Finding things in IPv6 Cyberspace... (5, Funny)

tlambert (566799) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754134)

Finding things in IPv6 Cyberspace...

"So what's the Gregorian music website?"

It's the little azure ball to the south of the stepped scarlet pyramid of the Eastern Seaboard Fission Authority burning beyond the green cubes of Mitsubishi Bank of America.

I highly recommend using an Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 computer deck.

Stay away from Sense/Net if you're a n00b, or you're likely to get iced.

-- Terry

Re:Finding things in IPv6 Cyberspace... (1)

UncleTogie (1004853) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754692)

Stay away from Sense/Net if you're a n00b, or you're likely to get iced.

or Burned....just ask Chrome! ;)

Re:So what's the Gregorian music website? (1)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754188)

According to Google, this [mp3cdisk.com] and the current /. thread are the only hits for "Gregorian music collection".

Re:So what's the Gregorian music website? (1)

doti (966971) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754330)

maybe because it's in the parallel universe of ipv6?

Re:So what's the Gregorian music website? (4, Informative)

antonlacon (821983) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754370)

TA typo'd Georgian into Gregorian.
http://music.inet.ge/ [music.inet.ge]

I was there (5, Informative)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754030)

And really, only problems I saw were the fact that it's pain in the ass to get automatic DHCPv6 working. The idea is that IPv6 stateless autoconfig (router advertisement) has a bit that tells the client if they should get ALL config via DHCP or just additional (like DNS addresses). However, no easy way to make Linux kernel execute DHCPv6 client based on the received stateless autoconfig bit.

Anyway, after statically configuring DNS servers, things were very smooth. Google et al worked, I could access entire IPv4 web via sixxs.org (just go http://slashdot.org.sixxs.org/ [sixxs.org] to access Slashdot via IPv6), I could SSH to my home servers...only things that seemed a bit odd were failing reverse DNSes on some hops when running traceroute. Jabber worked, IRC worked.

Great experience and experiment.

DHCPv6 (3, Interesting)

tlambert (566799) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754276)

I _really_ fail to understand the rationale for DHCPv6.

IPv6 was designed o that stateless autoconfig resulted in routable addresses.

Combine that with ZEROCONF, and you can discover everything that a DCHP server is going to be able to tell you, and more.

The only technical rationale I've ever heard is for reverse DNS, to prevent someone getting on the local net without authorization and relaying through your SMTP server, but that requires that you configure your DHCP server to only serve to "trusted" MAC addresses. It's also totally useless with DNSUPDAT, since anyone who gets an address can update the reverse in their home domain, and relay out that instead (which is more secure anyway).

So the only rationale I see is controlling access to network dialtone (a business rationale, based on the business model of selling packets rather than selling pipes - a model I happen to disagree with allowing to continue to exist).

So whose idea was it to turn on DHCPv6?

-- Terry

Re:DHCPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754492)

How the hell do you tell your clients which dns servers to use? I've been trying to figure it out for a while now, but no luck. Here's a post about it I on one of the FreeBSD lists (without answers):
http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/current/2007-12/msg00231.html [derkeiler.com]

Re:DHCPv6 (4, Informative)

gclef (96311) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754690)

One of the things the zeroconf and autoconf folks keep missing is that large organizations (like where I am) need to know which host had a given IP at a given time in the past. We need records and accounting, basically. While DHCP isn't perfect, by any stretch, a fully-autoconf (or zeroconf) network doesn't fill that need, and would be an absolute nightmare for the security folks.

For example, if I get a complaint about a laptop a few days after the event, how am I supposed to find that host once it's moved onto another network? Are people seriously saying I should have to walk every single router neighbor table (or arp table, if we're talking v4) looking for a specific 64-bit number? The network I work on has literally thousands of routers & switches. That's simply a non-starter. With DHCP, I at least have a > 50% chance of finding the MAC of a host (and where it is now) with a simple query.

In short, business needs are driving it. Almost every discussion I've seen of IPv6 for large enterprises (not ISPs) has assumed that DHCPv6 will be used, and that autoconf + zeroconf will not.

Re:DHCPv6 (3, Informative)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755112)

Stateless autoconfig will only tell you the ipv6 address and router. It's not good enough for full config.

You need to distribute the addresses of DNS, NTP, WINS, etc. etc. - for that you need DHCPv6.

Zeroconf will not cut it. That's for discovering services on the local subnet only... not broadcasting DNS addresses etc. On top of that it won't cross routers (by design), making it unsuitable for any reasonable size network (It has exactly the same issues as Netbios broadcast in fact, which hardly ever works.. hence the WINS hack which also hardly ever works).

Reverse DNS you mentioned - this not solvable without DHCPv6 at present (and is a critical issue for a well functioning network).

The other issue with stateless autoconfig is you can't fix the addresses centrally. In theory they should stay the same but in practice network cards die.. and the address is just the MAC address of the network card. If that happens to your main webserver you're screwed.

Re:I was there (4, Interesting)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754460)

I _really_ fail to understand the rationale for DHCPv6.

IPv6 was designed o that stateless autoconfig resulted in routable addresses.


Informing client about DNS, NTP etc servers is just icing on cake.

The primary purpose is accounting (And insert whatever Orwellianisms you want here). Especially in enterprise networks. ISPs also are interested, to provide equivalent functionality to DHCPv4 "option 82" or similar ones that tie specific IP to specific user or at least DSL connection. So basically the driver is requirement to have managed IPv6 addressing without random hosts just deciding whatever they want to use (EUI-64, CGAs, whatever). In fact, the recent trend seems to be that when deploying network, DHCPv6 is not only preferred option, it seems to become the *only* allowed option. (Basically: Filter traffic so that only the DHCPv6-allocated address is allowed to communicate.)

Re:I was there (1)

patchvonbraun (837509) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754564)

I was there also, and found that the only thing I was missing was DNS config. On Fedora, NetManager doesn't know enough to invoke DHCPv6 (dhcp6c), and when you run it manually, it dumpeth the core, yeah verily. I've been playing with V6 when I get a chance for the last couple of years, and have been pleasantly surprised at how much of it on Linux "just works". The NetManager/dhcp6c stuff definitely needs to be fixed, but the browser, telnet, ftp, rsync, ssh, wget, etc all seem to be V6 capable. Some kind soul (I think it was Andrew McGregor) pointed me at sixxs.org during the plenary session, and I could even get to V4 web content relatively easily.

One small step... (2, Funny)

tshetter (854143) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754110)


'Apart from -- obviously -- IPv6-related sites; they ranged from "the largest Gregorian music collection in Internet" to "hardcore torrents."'

Once you can get porn on the medium, you know it is a winner.

Re:One small step... (1)

labalicious (844887) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754350)

Unless the medium is named HD-DVD. I kid...

apologies to the band (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754136)

The Niiiiiiight the IETF Shut Offffffff Fourrrrrrr
And all the nerds were moaning
waaaaaaah wahh wah wah wah wah wah wah waahhh waaaah wah wahh wah wah wah wah wahhhhh

Back with my .ru wife in Blogosphere
When one day she called to me
Annnon come and see, there goes ICANN to overseas
Now I don't mind changin' protes
and I don't care, if dot-decimals no good
You ping what you need and you leave the rest
but they should neverrrrrrrr have taken our internetssssssssssssssss

Gregorian Music (1)

ashamanq (1077889) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754146)

Did anyone happen to notice which site was the collection of Gregorian music? It wasn't readily obvious from the list of sites visited provided.

from the "fun with switches" dept? (1)

call-me-kenneth (1249496) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754166)

What have switches got to do with a layer 3 protocol?

my $coat->get();

Re:from the "fun with switches" dept? (1)

Domint (1111399) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754766)

There is such a beast as a layer 3 switch [wikipedia.org] .

hmm hmm (1)

downix (84795) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754206)

oh, so they turned it off. No chaos, no destruction, just ho hum... wait a second, did you say HARDCORE TORRENTS?!? MAN, I never see that on IPv4!

yo (3, Insightful)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754212)

The trouble with ipv6 is that ipv4 works so well for 90% of the population (in the same manner that 76% of statistics are made up on the spot) that nobody who doesn't really care about this won't put in an effort to make the switch. It looks like going 100% ipv6 is quite a few years off, foo.

Re:yo (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754328)

Well, that and my ISP doesn't route IPv6 traffic, so if I wanted to use it I'd have to tunnel over IPv4, and that's just pointless complexity I don't really need in my network. If my ISP supported IPv6 I'd turn it on even though, as mentioned in the article, trying to use IPv6 on the current internet tends to break stuff and add delays to other things.

Re:yo (2, Interesting)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754656)

The trouble with ipv6 is that ipv4 works so well for 90% of the population (in the same manner that 76% of statistics are made up on the spot) that nobody who doesn't really care about this won't put in an effort to make the switch. It looks like going 100% ipv6 is quite a few years off, foo.

To you average user there should be no effort, since it should just work. The problem is that there are still gaping holes that need to be resolved. For example no DHCPv6 client provided standard with MacOS X. Sure you can get wide-dhcpv6 [sourceforge.net] and install it on your computer, but this considered to be in the realm of the experimenters.

We will get to the point where IPv6 is ready, but as the parent says most people aren't ready. You average Joe won't know that anything changed unless things break. Apple, Microsoft and Cisco still don't have IPv6 ready networks and the only people who do are just doing it for fun or out of curiosity.

Re:yo (3, Insightful)

Loke the Dog (1054294) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754772)

Well, IPv4 is ultimately the reason why people have NATs, and from my experience, most people with a NAT do occtionally run into problems. But these people could never guess that their problems are caused by the NAT and could be solved by simply getting more IPs.

For this reason, you rarely see people picking ISPs that offer more IPs and that means IPv6 comes along slowly. From the ISPs point of veiw, supply of IPs is greater than demand.

Its like people who use a terrible OS (and I'm not even talking Vista here, but more like win 98 or something) and get viruses and all sorts of malware. They don't seem to understand that all those issues they're having with their computer is not something you have to put up with, that there is a solution. This makes demand for really good OSes relatively low.

Hardcore torrents? (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754300)

I assume "hardcore" refers to the technical robustness of the torrent server and the dedication of the person running it and is not meant to describe the content.

Re:Hardcore torrents? (4, Funny)

Captain Spam (66120) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754482)

You assume wrong. It's more like a hardcore TCP/IP packet. These are, in fact, torrents which use every possible function of the torrent protocol, and uses them all to absurd extremes. One or two seeds and trackers? Please. Thousands of seeds and hundreds of redundant trackers on each torrent file. Uses every single port on the machine. Got a webserver set up on 80? Too bad, it's hardcore torrent time, and that port's being taken over.

The content is actually just the string "HELLOWORLD" repeated one billion times, though.

Slashdot is not available over IPv6 (5, Informative)

Gud (78635) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754534)

Someone should fix that and the traffic would have gone back up to normal load :-)

Here is my list of sites that I was able to reach using native IPv6
using IE worked:
                ipv6.google.com
        www.ripe.net
        www.apnic.net
        www.stupi.net
        www.arin.net
        www.icann.org
        www.nlnetlabs.nl

Failed foillowing sites did not work
        www.cisco.net/com
                www.microsoft.com
        www.speakeasy.net
        slashdot.org
        news.bbc.co.uk
        www.mbl.is
        www.cnn.com
        www.comcast.com/net
        news.com.com
        www.ibm.com
       

Re:Slashdot is not available over IPv6 (2, Informative)

Sesse (5616) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754724)

There's a www.ipv6.cisco.com, but it has MTU issues, at least from here. /* Steinar */

Re:Slashdot is not available over IPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754920)

We're turning it on Real Soon Now. Part of the new datacenter buildout.

Slashdot outgeeked by google (2, Informative)

daniel23 (605413) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754540)

slashdot was missing,too, and unlike google it still is.

dp@phoenix:~/Desktop$ ping6 ipv6.google.com
PING ipv6.google.com(2001:4860:0:1001::68) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 2001:4860:0:1001::68: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=221 ms
64 bytes from 2001:4860:0:1001::68: icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=214 ms
64 bytes from 2001:4860:0:1001::68: icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=221 ms

--- ipv6.google.com ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2026ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 214.969/219.185/221.367/3.006 ms

dp@phoenix:~/Desktop$ ping6 ipv6.slashdot,org
unknown host

dig ipv6.google.com AAAA

;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 7, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;ipv6.google.com.               IN      AAAA

;; ANSWER SECTION:
ipv6.google.com.        10455   IN      CNAME   ipv6.l.google.com.
ipv6.l.google.com.      5       IN      AAAA    2001:4860:0:1001::68
ipv6.l.google.com.      5       IN      AAAA    2001:4860:0:2001::68

dig slashdot.org AAAA

;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

Re:Slashdot outgeeked by google (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754708)

slashdot was missing,too, and unlike google it still is.

Does this mean with we will have to remove Slashdot's Nerd approval rating?

Re:Slashdot outgeeked by google (1)

Rod Beauvex (832040) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755100)

It still has one at this point?

Re:Slashdot outgeeked by google (2, Insightful)

SomeGuyTyping (751195) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754832)

did you think of trying ipv6.slashdot.org instead of ipv6.slashdot,org?

Re:Slashdot outgeeked by google (1)

daniel23 (605413) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754972)


you do have a point there, or rather a comma, but it's a wrong error:

ping6 ipv6.slashdot.org gives unknown host and the typo was introduced only when I did it all once again to copy paste from it to the post.

So,when will we have the night they shut off IPv6? (1)

Bookwyrm (3535) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754594)

Presumably, IPv6 will itself eventually be replaced by something better.

Re:So,when will we have the night they shut off IP (2, Funny)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754794)

There is a theory which states that if ever anyone gets IPv6 working without any glitches, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

Great, so it works ... now what? (1)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754614)

Ok,so IPv6 works and is usable. Now what? None of the major web properties are yet on IPv6, nor are any of the major carrier networks that the users are connected to. The problem is that there is not yet any business case for anyone to be the first to migrate. It generates no revenue. Until there is an actual motive to move to IPv6, it's only interesting to geeks.

Hopefully, when the supply of IPv4 addresses runs out (in a little over two years), there will be a Chinese fire drill for everyone to migrate to IPv6 quickly. If this does not happen, things will get ugly. Address space will be bought and sold on the black market, ugly hacks will go into place to conserve space ... it will really be a bad scene.

Microsoft will decide when the time is right (1)

Briden (1003105) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754964)

first it will be available on windows for geeks then it will be available for windows as a standard option then, they will make it default for new instalations, or turn it on by default in a service pack. panic will start, as morons everywhere find out that their internets don't work roughly 3 months later, the smart morons will have switched ipv6 off and ipv4 back on so they can continue working but eventually ms will "depreciate" support for ipv4 (by this time, the ISP portion of the net will have to be done updating it's stuff too) then and only then, will people move to ipv6 why isn't there a business case for anyone to move to ipv6? cuz microsoft hasn't made it "standard" yet, businesses can still reach their customers so they don't give a shit. incidentally, i don't give a shit, or want ipv6 either. i'll resist as long as i can. why? i LIKE ipV4. it WORKS. i'm sure it's a pain for all you server ops, but for me, having one, two, or ten computers hooked up through NAT is not so bad, at least i know how to work with it. they say ipv6 is more secure.. to be honest, i don't understand the technical details, but something tells me complexity!=security. also, that it's clear to see that not all the settings will be available to the average user. (ie one that doesn't open his settings dialog till things stop working) love it or hate it, it's the truth, and why the hell shouldn't it be?

I'm going to start my own internet! (5, Funny)

MK_CSGuy (953563) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754636)

With blackjack, and hookers!

Re:I'm going to start my own internet! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754876)

It scares me to think about what would be required to have the parent modded up to +5. Insightful, nonetheless! Scary, indeed.

Interesting (0, Flamebait)

KlomDark (6370) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754700)

The first reaction of the Mac/OS X guy was to start whining about the protocol when it was lack of functionality in his OS. Typical.

How Many of the Attendees Weren't Engineers? (2, Insightful)

andrewd18 (989408) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754714)

What I really want to know is, how many of the people who had computers at that conference were users who had no clue what IPv6 even was, much less how to configure their computer to use it.

It's one thing to say IPv6 is ready because a conference filled with engineers could download their pron with IPv4 turned off. It's entirely another thing to say that IPv6 is ready because it works without my mother even knowing the difference.

Fav quote... (1)

CBob (722532) | more than 6 years ago | (#22754752)

...From the article(or is that most disturbing?)

" forcing the IETF to proverbially eat its own dog food "

that's nothing! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22754800)

Recently, I turned off IPv6 on all my FreeBSD servers. NOBODY NOTICED!

Everything continued to work much like it did before, except the kernels were slightly smaller, and the output of certain commands was less confusing.

Amazing, eh?

Actually, I've been doing this for years. I'm not going to even think about IPv6 until popular sites are completely, 100%, inaccessible from IPv4. Because until then, I know IPv4 will work just fine. I suspect anyone else who has half a brain is doing the same thing.

But hey, whatever the IETF folks do for fun at their par-tays is their business.

Re:that's nothing! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22755096)

Recently, I turned off IPv6 on all my FreeBSD servers. NOBODY NOTICED!
Duh. You weren't serving hardcore torrents .

Site availability? (1)

Raul654 (453029) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755060)

Is there a list somewhere with sites that were and were not available using IPv6?

Re:Site availability? (1)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 6 years ago | (#22755164)

You want a list of 99.99% of the sites on the entire internet???? :p

Better to start with a list of what *is* available.

mod` up (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22755084)

it just 0wn2.', [goat.cx]

IPv8 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22755086)

I'm using IPv8. No pr0n tough. :(
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