Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

China Blocks YouTube Over Tibet Videos

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the stopping-the-signal dept.

Censorship 343

Screaming Cactus writes "Internet users in China were blocked from seeing YouTube.com on Sunday after dozens of videos about protests in Tibet appeared on the site. 'Chinese leaders encourage Internet use for education and business but use online filters to block access to material considered subversive or pornographic. Foreign Web sites run by news organizations and human rights groups are regularly blocked if they carry sensitive information. Operators of China-based online bulletin boards are required to monitor their content and enforce censorship.' The blocking added to the communist government's efforts to control what the public saw and heard about protests that erupted Friday in the Tibetan capital, Lhasa, against Chinese rule."

cancel ×

343 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

How long... (2, Interesting)

Alexx K (1167919) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767634)

before China blocks Slashdot?

Re:How long... (2, Funny)

mnemocynic (1221372) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767642)

Right about n[NO CARRIER]

China = Muslim? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22767764)

China is turning into a muslim country.

Re:China = Muslim? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22767918)

Not likely, religion is tightly controlled in China but it's kept on a tight leash so as not to become too big to threaten the authoritarian government. Even a group of a few hundred could be threatening to the 75 million member Chinese Communist Party.

Re:China = Muslim? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22768026)

Yeah its all the Muslims fault. Good call. Observant.

Re:China = Muslim? (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768054)

At least the Gooks only managed to block it for their own country.

Unlike the useless Pakis.

Re:How long... (2, Insightful)

imkow (1021759) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767652)

Soon after you can write chinese ....:D

btw, a greeting from the Red China

Re:How long... (2, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767758)

Considering that Slashdot still only supports a tiny subset of unicode (not including the Euro symbol) I think there's more chance of the grandparent learning to write Chinese than there is of Slashdot actually accepting it in posts...

Re:How long... (2, Insightful)

imkow (1021759) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767992)

yeah, i have just tried to put some chinese characters in here. they didnt show up.. the slashdot site seem less open than the microsoft site.
that should be not the way.

Hiding something? (0)

jo7hs2 (884069) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767648)

What are you hiding China?

Re:Hiding something? (5, Funny)

Eggplant62 (120514) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767666)

Millions of spambots, what else? If they want a Great Firewall of China, I'm happy to help!

I'd encourage everyone to simply null route China's netblocks and enjoy the sudden decrease in criminal activity.

Re:Hiding something? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22767768)

I'd encourage everyone to simply null route China's netblocks and enjoy the sudden decrease in criminal activity.

Wow, I can tell someone needs to be hit with a cluebat. Have you accounted for all the shit you buy from China? Another spam militant... Do you guys ever get laid?

Re:Hiding something? (-1, Flamebait)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767696)

Doh! Of course china is going to block news like this.

Care to try and convince me that any large government with the capability wouldn't try to block news of this form?

The US isn't in the same league, but it still does it's darnedest to keep as much hidden as possible on sensitive or embarrassing subjects. So does the government here in the UK. It's standard government fare, that sort of behavior, has been for centuries..

I try not to get to worked up about it. The general trend is that this sort of thing is gradually decreasing in frequency and magnitude. That's reason to be moderately cheerful at least.

Re:Hiding something? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22768052)

Oh Yes, in another story about China's CCP in action, it comes to be on Slashdot that "teh evil USA does it too!11!! they're just as bad!!!!"

Yawwwwnnn.

Re:Hiding something? (1)

DustoneGT (969310) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767984)

If Tibet and the other western provinces break away then so will Taiwan, parts of Manchuria and then maybe Macao and Hong Kong. They don't want their population to get into 'dangerous and subversive' ideas like independence, human rights or democratic government.

"The more you tighten your grip, Mr. Hu, the more star systems, I mean provinces, will slip through your fingers."

Re:Hiding something? (3, Insightful)

omegashenron (942375) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768140)

You are over simplifying things. Western provinces can't survive without the East, why do you think so many people from the West travel to the East for work. If they become separate and independent, say goodbye to an open border.

As for Taiwan, they're just as bad as the PRC. Taiwan asserts ownership over all of mainland China (actually this view varies depending on which political party gets elected). Taiwan with its democracy is more corrupt than the CCP, just look at Chen Shui-bian. He would be under house arrest or in front of a firing squad if he pulled that shit in the PRC. The Western media didn't make a big deal out of his affairs because he is an ally.

Giving in to Taiwan would be like having let the Southern States form their own country. Furthermore, if your into "human rights" look at how Taiwans native tribes were treated by the Taiwanese Hans who took over.

If you have never lived in China, you don't know anything about the situation and should not comment.

psiphon (2, Informative)

hey (83763) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767650)

Maybe you want to consider hosting psiphon server?
http://psiphon.civisec.org/ [civisec.org]

Is blocking even necessary? (4, Interesting)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767656)

I've traveled to China a few times, and encounter plenty of Chinese students at my university. All seem to be aware that their government is authoritarian and has done some terrible things, in spite of all the blocking. Nonetheless, without exception every Chinese person I've spoke with on the issue insists that a hard line is needed to keep the country together. Since the Chinese population, for cultural and historical reasons, seems okay with what's going on, is blocking the Internet even necessary?

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (-1, Troll)

milsoRgen (1016505) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767670)

Spoken like a true commie, why don't you go back to your communal farm Ivan!

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22767674)

The point is that they know it and they *like* it that way.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (0, Troll)

milsoRgen (1016505) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767728)

I view his statement as pro-communist propaganda.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22767796)

I view your statement as pro-moron propaganda.

Then think about it more (3, Interesting)

microbox (704317) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767822)

Just because you take it as propaganda doesn't mean that others don't have a more leveled response to this statement. For example, you could take it as saying: "what is going on with this type of morality?". If a person condones authoritarian rule, what is the need for censorship? Yet these people seem to do both? This statement is about the human condition, and not politics. Personally I think a lot of official chinese statements express an embarrassingly amorale attitude.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22767802)

So? Fascism was very popular when it was brought in.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (4, Interesting)

aleph42 (1082389) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767690)

The effects of controling the medias are subtle and effective, and every succeful control will also convince the population it is itself necessary.

Take the example of Russia: the elections were cheated (some small towns were 105% pro government...), but even perfectly fair elections would probably show that a majority (like 55%) think Putin was a good leader. But thinking that 95%, of the country agrees with the government will make you more prone to agree yourself, whereas at 55% you'll start beleiving that alternatives exist.

I could also speak about Fox in the US, and the necessity for antiterrorist laws.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (4, Insightful)

megaditto (982598) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768078)

Fox News is just one of many TV networks in the US, and offers a unique -and different- perspective on things compared to the other 90% of media out there.

You may consider it propaganda, but nobody is forcing you to watch it, and nobody goes around shutting down liberal stations, arresting liberal TV sponsors, or shooting liberal journalists. If anything, Fox is against the kind of socialist media controls and regulations that would allow the Russia-type abuses in America.

How you think Fox News resembles anything in Russia is beyond me.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22767734)

It depends on what you mean by 'necessary'.

Is blocking necessary to satisfy human rights? No.
Is blocking necessary to keep the country together? Maybe.
Is blocking necessary to maintain a hard line? Yes.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (5, Interesting)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767740)

There you've hit an interesting point.

China is barking huge, and its population is equally on the large side (Ha! Fear my accurate numerical statements...). They can't just be mostly sheep with a few wolves running things.

I've known quite a few Chinese students, courtesy of the US making it harder for Chinese students to study there. This is great, it's brought vast, vast amounts of cash in from China to universities in the UK, thanks for that one guys..

Anyhoo, these Chinese people, while here, have just the same net access as anyone else, and they are for the most part, belonging to the middle to upper classes in China. Just the sort of people you'd think they'd want to keep ignorant (middle class people have started all revolutions in modern times), and yet they make no effort to do so.

Doesn't quite map, does it...

It seems to me we have a large amount of 'we don't really understand what the fuck is going on in China', that frequently gets combined with a bunch of preconceptions which are probably quite inaccurate.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (2, Interesting)

grassy_knoll (412409) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767890)

There seem to be some in the business community who think democracy would dilute their control over the government and, perhaps, thereby their profits.

This story from the International Herald Tribune [iht.com] , while specifically about Hong Kong, seems to illustrate the concept:

Equally, many business leaders -primarily members of the tycoon class, as they are known - show little interest in any political arrangement that would dilute their long-established ability to influence government, regardless of how swiftly Hong Kong is changing.


Re:Is blocking even necessary? (1)

qbzzt (11136) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767896)

They're probably afraid that if the gov't wasn't authoritarian the country will fall apart. That happened in the USSR, Yugoslavia, etc. Arguably, it's happening in Iraq.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (1)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767950)

China has had government based around total control of the population for thousands of years. It might be they just don't want things to change much.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (0, Offtopic)

tabrnaker (741668) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767928)

Didn't you know that exportation of professionals is part of china's plan to dominate the world?

First, make other countries feeble minded by poisoning their youth and feeding their vices. Next, emigrate professionals to increase the number of chinese in decision making power in other countries.

It's a slow process, but Mao's dream is coming true. Anybody who has read and understood Mao, should be very scared as to how close to the plan the chinese are sticking, and the amazing results they are getting from sticking to their plan.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (1)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768080)

Got a source for that?

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (1, Flamebait)

microbox (704317) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767936)

It seems to me we have a large amount of 'we don't really understand what the fuck is going on in China', that frequently gets combined with a bunch of preconceptions which are probably quite inaccurate.

Can it be argued that chinese actions in Tibet and their language with regards to Taiwan is a model of enlightened society? What a joke.

China is powerful, and fear is futile ground for inaccurate and negative preconceptions. Most westerners would abhor living in such an authoritarian regime, yet it was only a few generations ago when westerners themselves were the purveyors of the most human rights abuses. Heck, the thought of genocide in a place like Australia today is absurd, yet it was practiced just a 100 years ago.

It's impossible to say that things never change. That society will always be the same. That's not true. For the vast amount of our history, we've lived subsidence lifestyles. The invention of writing changed all of that, and very quickly. 6000 years later and society is still learning about itself. We've reduced violence with trail-by-jury, and enabled a political structure that strives for constant and peaceful transition of regime.

I believe that anger is based watching a society the needlessly makes itself suffer. It's not just the Tibetans that are suffering... do you really think all of those soldiers in tibet are making themselves happy by beating people up? They are just sowing the seeds of more conflict in their own lives. If punching someone in the face is the way you deal with conflict, then you'll end up with a broken nose on day.

There is a lot we don't understand about China - there is a vast cultural divide. Just because they are powerful does not mean they are right. Their actions against their own people are a disgrace to themselves.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (4, Insightful)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767978)

Can it be argued that chinese actions in Tibet and their language with regards to Taiwan is a model of enlightened society? What a joke.

Ok then, can it be argued that the way the US treats Cuba is in any way still appropriate? How much have the people of Cuba suffered because the US won't relax its embargo?

I mean, yes, they fucked up... IN THE SIXTIES!!!111one.
Seriously, shouldn't we be able to move on?

If you ask me, that's what's kept Castro and his friends in power for so long.

The point is, China isn't alone in acting stupidly towards other countries. It doesn't excuse them, but lets keep a sense of proportion about this.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (1)

Telvin_3d (855514) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768094)

Lots of Chinese students in Canada too. And one thing that I have learned is that anyone who is over here to study is not 'middle class'. That may be how we read them based on their money and possessions but from their point of view they are not. Any family who can afford to send their kids overseas is in the thick of Chinese industry and money. It is exactly the people LEAST likely to want a revolution.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22768194)

Political censorship is the same as other types of censorship. There's political censorship in China because Chinese WANT there to be political censorship. They don't want anything that could potentially damage the Communist Party out there the same way the average American thinks some nebulous Other needs to be protected from sex, violence and bad language. All Chinese know about these issues, the point of censorship is not controlling what's known by the population, but what people think should be shown by the media. It's just an extension of the usual patriotic attitude people have, like the way people in the US complain about the media only showing the "negative side" of the Iraq war, except in China it's been enshrined in law.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767782)

Since the Chinese population, for cultural and historical reasons, seems okay with what's going on, is blocking the Internet even necessary?
If the internet was not blocked, people would not be unanimously supporting their government, hence the blocking.

Re:Is blocking even necessary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22767868)

An even better question: If a billion+ Chinese citizens are, for cultural and historical reasons, okay with their authoritarian government, what gives anyone outside China the right to tell them they're wrong?

GooTube (1)

TFer_Atvar (857303) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767662)

It'll be interesting to see how quickly GooTube caves and removes the videos. After all, they were willing to alter their search in order to gain access to Chinese markets. Let's see how far they're willing to bend over.

Re:GooTube (1)

jamar0303 (896820) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768010)

Er, they did what? Don't think that ever happened. While Youtube was still accessible in China they never blocked any of their search results from showing up. On the other hand, the government blocked any search results after the first page.

More proof of chinas real goals (3, Insightful)

Jrabbit05 (943335) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767668)

I don't see how we continue to support the olympics in such a country. It's not that they're communist. It's not that they're corrupt. It's that they're against the very fundamental freedoms that the olympics represents.

Re:More proof of chinas real goals (0, Flamebait)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767672)

If Spartan, a totalitarian society if there ever was one, could send representatives to pan-Hellenic events in ancient times, why not let China do the same today?

Re:More proof of chinas real goals (1)

Jrabbit05 (943335) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767704)

It's not that they can't send athletes to a world competition. The issue lies in the economic boost the modern olympics will have on them.

Re:More proof of chinas real goals (1)

jamar0303 (896820) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768032)

But China's actually hosting it...

Re:More proof of chinas real goals (2, Insightful)

dbcad7 (771464) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767812)

Not to nitpick, but how are the Olympics representative of fundamental freedoms ?

It's a sports competition between countries.. That you apply a sense of patriotism to it, and extrapolate your ideals to it, is nice.. but there are other countries participating that have different ideals... If you only want to compete with people with your own ideals, then you would just do your own competition in you own country.

Re:More proof of chinas real goals (3, Insightful)

qbzzt (11136) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767850)

Since when have the Olympic games (Berlin in 1936, Moscow in 2000) been about freedom and democracy? They're about showing off to the world and bragging.

Re:More proof of chinas real goals (2, Insightful)

owlnation (858981) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767872)

I don't see how we continue to support the olympics in such a country. It's not that they're communist. It's not that they're corrupt. It's that they're against the very fundamental freedoms that the olympics represents.
This is true. However, short of having the Olympics in Scandinavia every time, it's really hard to see where better alternatives exist. The next Olympics are in London. The UK has more breaches of the right to privacy than any other country on Earth. Theoretically it has a free press -- but only theoretically -- the BBC is governement own and News Corp Internation owns in full or part almost everything else.

It would be ironic if China were to boycott the UK for just that reason -- but in many ways they would have every right to do so.

If everyone would just focus on fixing the corruption in their own governments, rather than name-calling other countries, the World would be a much better place. Forget Eastasia, lets focus on the real enemies within Oceania.

Re:More proof of chinas real goals (1)

Loke the Dog (1054294) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767980)

Um... If there's any political goal of the olympics, I'd say its to allow countries to demonstrate their greatness by other means than war. It's about peace, not freedom(tm).

This really doesn't bother me much. (0)

Superballs (1176179) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767678)

As far as I'm concerned, it's they're government and if they choose to limit what their population can see it's their business.

If anything it helps me appreciate that I live in a country that allows me to see and search pretty well whatever I want, even if it's at my own risk. I really don't think anyone will die from not being allowed to see YouTube. Personally sometimes I wish my government would just block it lol just to keep me from losing IQ points from seeing some of the content posted. Just a joke if you're wondering, there are some great videos up there.

At least it's competent blocking (1)

miller60 (554835) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767688)

At least they managed to block the site without knocking YouTube completely off the Web [datacenterknowledge.com] .

Va China (1, Interesting)

ndnspongebob (942859) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767700)

China is becoming a bigger and bigger enemy by the day. First, its all the hacking into our government and then trying to control tibet. I mean they're going after the Dalai lama, the peoples religious leader, have some respect or decency at least. I don't see how China is fit to host the Olympics. Do the athletes know that people are dying in tibet just so China can run the Olympic torch through tibet? Its all messed up. They are not ready yet. All that without even touching on censorship. And so from now own, I will refer to China as Va China.

Re:Va China (1)

ElAurian (133656) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767934)

You ignorant eejit! China was a terrible fucking hell-nasty dictatorship way back in 1955, when it first invaded Tibet. It's gotten much better since then, but it's still authoritarian. Read some goddamn history. A lot of people in China are working, against the massive inertia of officialdom, to bring freedom to their country while maintaining some level of order. They do not need American bullshit right now. They need some sophisticated friends, not the people who treated Iraq like it was one big military base.

Re:Va China (1)

tabrnaker (741668) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767954)

What about all the hacking the US government has done into China?

Only divisive people see enemies around them. As long as one part of humanity tries to chop of another part of humanity, humanity is doomed.

Re:Va China (1)

nbarriga (877070) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767960)

I mean they're going after the Dalai lama
The Dalai Lama lives in India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama#Residence/ [wikipedia.org]

the Dalai lama, the peoples religious leader
About 8% of the chinese population is an active buddhist(even though about 50%-60% are non practicing but follow the traditions), in fact, about 60% of the chinese indentify themselves as non-religious.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Republic_of_China/ [wikipedia.org]

I don't see how China is fit to host the Olympics. Do the athletes know that people are dying in tibet just so China can run the Olympic torch through tibet? Its all messed up. They are not ready yet. All that without even touching on censorship.
And what about 1936 Berlin Olympics? I think you think too much of the Olympics.

Re:Va China (1)

dbcad7 (771464) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768048)

Do the athletes know that people are dying in tibet just so China can run the Olympic torch through tibet?

Is that the reason ? .. pretty simplistic, incorrect and emotional summary... What has really happened, is that in Tibet, they had riots by Tibetan people who want independence from China who has controlled it since 1951 (although also controlled many times by China for centuries).. Now in these riots, cars were torched, and all the violence that goes with riots escalated, and people have been killed both sides... As in many places in the world, this is a place where you have a group of people who don't want to be part of the government that is ruling them.. depending upon which side your on, it's rebellion or terrorism when the freedom fighters riot and burn.

I am not going all pro China on you here.. but the reality is, that Tibet is ruled by China right now.. and if there are riots, then they have to deal with it... If there are continued problems in Tibet, then it is up to the Chinese to decide if they want to give it up (yeah right), or continue to deal with the problems.. I don't think any country is going to help Tibet in any attempt at getting freedom.. just not going to realistically happen.

urgh (3, Interesting)

clragon (923326) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767702)

Before everyone presses the reply button and start typing "FREE TIBET!", could slashdotters please read this [theatlantic.com] article first?
Read all three parts of it, the author summarizes both sides of the issue in order for people to see that the Tibet issue is much more than just a communist regime bullying an occupied region, for example:

Another aspect of the Chinese duty in Tibet is the sense that rapid modernization is needed, and should take precedence over cultural considerations. For Westerners, this is a difficult perspective to understand. Tibet is appealing to us precisely because it's not modern, and we have idealized its culture and anti-materialism to the point where it has become, as Orville Schell says, "a figurative place of spiritual enlightenment in the Western imagination -- where people don't make Buicks, they make good karma."

But to the Chinese, for whom modernization is coming late, Buicks look awfully good. I noticed this during my first year as a teacher in China, when my writing class spent time considering the American West. We discussed western expansion, and I presented the students with a problem of the late nineteenth century: the Plains Indians, their culture in jeopardy, were being pressed by white settlers. I asked my class to imagine that they were American citizens proposing a solution, and nearly all responded much the way this student did: "The world is changing and developing. We should make the Indians suit our modern life. The Indians are used to living all over the plains and moving frequently, without a fixed home, but it is very impractical in our modern life.... We need our country to be a powerful country; we must make the Indians adapt to our modern life and keep pace with the society. Only in this way can we strengthen the country."

I know I might be modded offtopic but the discussion of Chinese censorship of Tibet videos will no doubt lead to the discussion of Tibet vs China itself. I'm just asking everyone to please form their opinion after looking at both sides of the issue, and how each side feels about it. Try not to base your opinion solely on just what you hear news.

Re:urgh (3, Insightful)

ndnspongebob (942859) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767744)

ummmm......so China should take over Tibet for buicks? or some modern life? who gets to judge what is modern life? the Chinese or Tibetans? Every country has its own ways and its own problems, and they would rather have their own problems instead of some alien power coming and trying to solve those problems. People have already died, for modern life? wtf I would rather live with nothing and just be happy instead of having a modern life and dead. Thank you very much.

Re:urgh (0, Flamebait)

brainnolo (688900) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767828)

I hope you aren't an American and/or a supporter of USA military actions otherwise the hypocrisy of your post would be stunning.

Re:urgh (0, Offtopic)

traveller604 (961720) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767862)

Exactly. China might be bad, but the US is far, far worse. I'm talking global (not domestic) politics wise..

Re:urgh (1)

brainnolo (688900) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767894)

I don't know why you are modded -1, apparently US governments mods down UnAmerican comments
</joke>

Re:urgh (1)

The End Of Days (1243248) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768012)

Possibly because there really is no place for a childish US-bashing response to someone pointing out the problems of China. It was off-topic at best, and basically flamebait.

FREE TIBET (1, Redundant)

weighn (578357) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767942)

'cause it ain't China

Re:urgh (2, Informative)

slashkitty (21637) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767990)

Even better is this article that describes the serf existance of most tibetans before the 1959 : http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html [michaelparenti.org]

Store and forward peer to peer over bluetooth (5, Interesting)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767746)

This is where something like Usenet is still better than "The Web". It doesn't even require tcp/ip to function and therefore has no centralised control. With something like an NNTP server running on every phone, over bluetooth, it would be pretty much impossible to prevent the spread of information.

Walk past someone in the street and your phone syncs it's "newsgroups" with the other phone. The smartphones around these days are coming with 2Gb of storage and 300MHz processors. More than 100,000 are being purchased per day in China.

 

Re:Store and forward peer to peer over bluetooth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22768040)

Yeah, cos the government couldnt post "sniffer" phones at convenient locations in the city...

Unimpressed (2, Informative)

Forrest Kyle (955623) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767784)

I remain unimpressed with George W. Bush's magic plan to spread democracy by borrowing billions of dollars from China and doing business with them whenever possible. Articles like this only reinforce this feeling, as if it needed reinforcing.

Well, at least they did not bring down the house.. (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767794)

Well, at least they did not bring down You-Tube like Pakistan clumsily did when they blocked it...

thistimei have no sympathy for local mobs in Tibet (0)

imkow (1021759) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767798)

As a chinese, from what have happened I know in tibet, I do not think what those mobs were doing is right.
those mobs burnt cars, banks, houses and shops owned by their folks. The pictures shown by both western and Chinese media look so familar with those taken from that freed Iraq. I'm also afraid if we let them have their way, they will turn people like me back to poverty. I just got my little sales bussines started days ago. So i just wish those freedom fighters could do their course in a more civil way..

Re:thistimei have no sympathy for local mobs in Ti (1)

ndnspongebob (942859) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767832)

yea people sorta go crazy when the government kills their relatives

Re:thistimei have no sympathy for local mobs in Ti (3, Insightful)

jonfr (888673) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767924)

China has installed a media blackout (Chinese public doesn't know what is going on), they don't want to get the same response as Burma did get when the protest where cursed there few months back. But not only that, China government has also closed down the border zone between China and Tibet. Preventing tourist and reporters to get inside the occupied country. They do this as they don't want a new 1989 for the world to see. Chinese news agents are spewing out propaganda at the moment, nothing that comes from them is accurate or true on what is happening.

Let's not forget the fact that China did invade Tibet in 1950 and claimed Tibet as there own, while Tibet is in fact indepent country that is military occupied. While in fact that is not the case. U.N should have for long time protested the China occupation of Tibet long time ago. It is however sad fact that the business deals prevent that from happening.

I expect information on the action of Chinese military forces to come to light soon. As I expect that the information is going to get out one way or an other. View of the Chinese public are based on what the government chooses to tell them, not necessary the facts of what is going on.

We are going to see more bloodshed to happen in Tibet for some time now. However, it is as question how much of it reaches international media.

craziness (4, Insightful)

Deanalator (806515) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767806)

If you want to see something crazy, check out the political spam in the comments of these videos. It is unbelievable the ratio of how many people are calling Tibetans liars and cheering on the Chinese. These are recent posts calling the Dalai Lama a terrorist ringleader. It confuses me that so many people outside the great firewall are posting this stuff.

Anyone want to help me mod these comments down, and rate these videos up?

Re:craziness (-1, Flamebait)

brainnolo (688900) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767844)

Why do you assume that it is political spam? Unless you are Chinese I doubt you know enough to judge what is happening in there. People have their own opinion, although it may be based upon great misinformation you cannot just assume that to be the case. Also, unfortunately there is no such thing as "The Truth".

Re:craziness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22768000)

Unless you are Chinese I doubt you know enough

God forbid someone might be Tibetan.

Re:craziness (2, Interesting)

TehDuffman (987864) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768018)

Why do you assume that it is political spam? Unless you are Chinese I doubt you know enough to judge what is happening in there. People have their own opinion, although it may be based upon great misinformation you cannot just assume that to be the case. Also, unfortunately there is no such thing as "The Truth".

That is like people saying they cannot comment on American government or policies if they aren't American. We know that doesn't happen. Plus the fact is Tibet is as far as many in the world are concerned Tibet isn't a part of China it has simply been occupied for 50+ years now.

I can also definitely see the Chinese government or hardliners going on YouTube and other sites to mod these videos down so no one sees them not just their people.

Re:craziness (1)

Deanalator (806515) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768162)

Fair enough. Maybe the sample of people from the region is a bit skewed, since most of the people I know from the region are around my age (mid 20s), but I have only talked to one person out of the 40 or so people I have discussed this with who does not think that Tibet and Taiwan should have sovereignty. She happened to be an elderly woman from northern china, who had also only been in the US for 3 or so weeks. I also attended a fairly "liberal" university, and most of my friends are on the technical side, so that might further skew my sampling.

Some of these videos that I have seen though, the posts are 12 to 1 in favor of the Chinese military. Those numbers surprise me.

Re:craziness (1)

hlt32 (1177391) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767966)

Not really.

You have no idea what is going on.

I would imagine the US government would censor videos if people protested the Bush regime and called for , say ... New York, to be released from US rule.

The fact is, that you have no idea if the Dalai Lama is a terrorist or not.

Even more relevently, the Tibetians are causing civil unrest, and these videos provoke ignorant people into supporting them..

Don't buy into the hype, theres a lot here that we don't know about, have no right to judge or interfere in.

Re:craziness (0)

omegashenron (942375) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767988)

Well I live in Australia, and these people (protesters) have been loud, violent and disruptive at the Chinese consulates in Sydney and Melbourne. They have been damaging cars, climbing walls and resisting arrest. I live in an apartment 3 blocks away from the Chinese Consulate in Sydney. If they act this way in Australia, god only knows how they act in Tibet. I have no problem with them migrating to Australia, I do have a problem with them brining their 'battles' here.



It is undisputed that they've been setting fire to and looting Chinese businesses and targeting people of Han ethnicity, how would you feel if people of Japan sick of the US military presence did the same to American's and American business?



Give the Chinese a break

any chinese comments? (3, Interesting)

Doviende (13523) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767820)

It seems to me that there's a pretty big language barrier that prevents us from hearing much from most chinese internet users. The ones i met in china tended to stick to purely chinese sites, which i found quite hard to read with only my basic level of chinese.

("if we get some chinese comments, perhaps people here can translate them")

Re:any chinese comments? (4, Interesting)

Doviende (13523) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767846)

well shit, son. All the unicode chinese chars i wrote in that posting got nuked. i guess we won't be hearing from any chinese commenters any time soon.

Re:any chinese comments? (5, Interesting)

imkow (1021759) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767958)



Being a chinese , the life is very tough.

,
the fact i can still get on the internet is something gratefully granted by the gov. i wouldn't dare to raise a trouble.

in china, any public voice that does not sound "harmonious" will be "harmonized". everything is for building a "harmonious society".

,
many websites has been "harmonized", which have become a common practice..

youtube,
through some technical means the youtube site can still be reached, but that's only to geeks like me.

i have written something , but they became dots. (5, Funny)

imkow (1021759) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768034)

all chinese characters i have typed here became dot...
i take it as a censorship

Re:any chinese comments? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22768084)

My gf is Chinese.

The first couple of years of our relationship, if the subject of Taiwan, Tibet etc ever came up, anything I could say on the matter, she thought was just Western propaganda.

China's propaganda system is multi-layered. It's not that no information gets to China, it's that any information that does get there is assumed to be "Western propaganda", and not true.

People know something happened at TianAnMen square, ... but they dont really believe people died there or anything like that.

Things like Tibet, Taiwan, Chinese people have been told since birth that these are Chinese. Let's face it, if Chinese people, from China, started telling you that Texas was not part of the USA, you'd just ignore it right? "Chinese propaganda". Same deal, at least from their point of view.

Re:any chinese comments? (3, Informative)

Graftweed (742763) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768150)

if we get some chinese comments, perhaps people here can translate them

Someone already did [blogs.com] :

For those living in the West who didn't realize that there's little sympathy for Tibet independence among ethnic Chinese in the PRC, this blog post on Global Voices [globalvoicesonline.org] will be a shocker. John Kennedy has translated chatter from Chinese blogs and chatrooms that generally runs along the lines of: those ungrateful minorities, we give them modern conveniences and look how they thank us... where have we heard this before? Reuters has a roundup [washingtonpost.com] on the Washington Post that begins: "a look at Chinese blogs reveals a vitriolic outpouring of anger and nationalism directed against Tibetans and the West." (...)

"Davesgonechina" at the Tenement Palm blog has been translating the chatter coming from Chinese netizens on Fanfou and Jiwai - Chinese versions of Twitter. Click here [blogspot.com] , here [blogspot.com] , and here [blogspot.com] , specifically. Dave has done more than translate: he points out that this Tibet situation is a real challenge to all people who believe that the Internet can help foster free speech and bring about better global understanding. Here is his challenge to all of us [blogspot.com] ...

The above info, plus a great deal of other material well worth spending the time to read, was aggregated [boingboing.net] by boingboing's Xeni Jardin, who since this situation has erupted in Tibet has kept a close eye on the whole thing and provided some very good info like the above mentioned post.

Why only Tibet? (2, Interesting)

jasonmanley (921037) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767838)

I'm not trying to bait or anything but I am curious. Why does the internet community give so much energy to the liberation of Tibet but they don't do the same to the USA, South Africa, Australia etc that are overrun and controlled by accupying colonial powers. Yes they may be 'democracies' but if you go and speak to a native aborigony and ask them about it I think that their perspective would be different to that of some slashdotters. There are occupying forces all over the world and all throughout history - I just wonder why we choose to make a fuss over Tibet when there are injustices in our own backyard that we are choosing to ignore.

Bumper stickers (1)

iknownuttin (1099999) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767948)

Why does the internet community give so much energy to the liberation of Tibet but they don't do the same to the USA, South Africa, Australia etc that are overrun and controlled by accupying colonial powers.

Because "Free USA!" just doesn't have the ring of "Free Tibet!" and the bumper stickers wouldn't be as colorful as the Tibet ones: red, white and blue as apposed the rainbow of the Tibet one?

Free Australia would just have all of us (me anyway) thinking Fosters is giving their beer away for free, and the Free South Africa was done by Nelson Mandela - a better man than I'll ever be.

Re:Why only Tibet? (2, Informative)

crianp (1219682) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767982)

Well all those countries you listed are Free which Tibet is not... simple as that, China has no historical claim over Tibet because as far as History goes, it was the Mongols who took Tibet and not the Chinese. The Dalai Lama is the designated leader and widely supported. The worst part about the whole Tibet situation is that the Chinese government have been moving in their supporters in the region so that Tibetans are now the minority.

Re:Why only Tibet? (1)

tabrnaker (741668) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767986)

umm, i think you answered your own question.

It's much easier to blame other people for our faults(we are all human) than to blame ourselves. The current global situation is a failing of humanity in general, not individual countries. We are One in our division. Only by looking at a coin from different perspectives do we come up with the concept of heads and tails.

For all our claims of Objectivity, we fail miserably in social contexts.

Re:Why only Tibet? (1)

TehDuffman (987864) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768044)

I'm not trying to bait or anything but I am curious. Why does the internet community give so much energy to the liberation of Tibet but they don't do the same to the USA, South Africa, Australia etc that are overrun and controlled by accupying colonial powers. Yes they may be 'democracies' but if you go and speak to a native aborigony and ask them about it I think that their perspective would be different to that of some slashdotters. There are occupying forces all over the world and all throughout history - I just wonder why we choose to make a fuss over Tibet when there are injustices in our own backyard that we are choosing to ignore.

South Africa? I remember hearing alot of people during the late 80's pushing for the overthrow of the Apartheid white Government till it was overthrown.

USA and Australia are not colonial powers they are their own nation and the abuses that happened to the native people happened 100+ years ago and have since been apologized for and they have been both given a degree of autonomy which is what the Dalia Lama wants.

Re:Why only Tibet? (1)

Bazar (778572) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768146)

I've honestly seen little about liberation of Tibet from the internet. Perhaps its just the sights you visit that are pro-Tibet
Its a non-issue for me personally, and this article on Slashdot isn't pro-Tibet, its anti-censorship.

A war over Tibet war is something of interest and thus, discussion on the internet, its something that's going to be talked about, and get more "energy" from people.

The issues with Australian aborigines pales in comparison if you take into account the fact that the Australian government recently and officially apologized for their actions and progress is [b]probably[/b] being made. It doesn't make what they've done ok, but its a step towards peacefully resolving it.

The issues with New Zealand and their semi-native Maori population is a thorny, but our government is listening and trying to rectify past grievances they have suffered. Again, this is a peaceful resolution. As for being democratic, they can either vote as a normal New Zealander, or they can vote using a Maori vote. They effectively get to choose which rule they will play with. So in a way, they have more political clout per vote non-Maori.

The other countries i know too little about to comment on.

Of the 3 issues i talked about, only one of them has the possibility of a war. The other two are simply civil matters and are being slowly resolved or improved.

Hope that explains why Tibet is an interesting topic, and why little fuss is applied to the internal matters of some countries.

Re:Why only Tibet? (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768174)

I'm not trying to bait or anything but I am curious. Why does the internet community give so much energy to the liberation of Tibet but they don't do the same to the USA, South Africa, Australia etc that are overrun and controlled by accupying colonial powers.
Well, I dunno about South Africa, or even Australia, but... free the US? And hand it over to whom? Some 99%* of the population is descended from those 'occupying' colonists. Was the settling of America a travesty? Maybe, maybe not - if you'd like, we can say that it is, sure, and as big a tragedy as you want - but would evicting everyone now living there make things better? You just can't up and move 300 million people, all the infrastructure they put down, all the homes they've built over the years, not if you're sane. Kicking people out of their homes and destroying their lives and livelihoods is half of the injustice that came up in the first place. It won't make the world better. And you can only give so much restitution to the dead.

(* totally made up and almost assuredly incorrect figure and this post in general probably doesn't do enough to include and address matters related to the sizable Hispanic populations down in the southern states, but close enough to reality that the same point applies.)

Re:Why only Tibet? (1)

jo7hs2 (884069) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768190)

Probably because Native Americans and Australian Aborigines don't still make up 50% of their nation's population. If they did, and had an impassioned, eloquent, and most importantly (mostly) unitary leader-in-exhile to speak for them, things might be different. At this point, at least with regards to Native Americans, there isn't all that much left to "liberate" anymore, so all that is left is to study what happened. I don't see your point about S. Africa, there was tons of activism in the US surrounding apartheid, it just happens to have pre-dated the widespread use of the internet.

Youtube, if you're reading this (1)

yamamushi (903955) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767908)

Don't back down to China on this one, it would be unethical to remove the videos so that the site could be seen in China. By letting the Chinese government pressure you into doing this, would mean letting their powers having a direct negative impact on us here in the West.

Communism just don't work. (1)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 6 years ago | (#22767996)

I have a feeling that over time, as people increasingly leave the Communist party in favor of the booming economic opportunities that are exploding all over China, these sorts of government abuses will simply go away. Sure, the government will fight to maintain its position of power over everything, but there's only so long they can keep this going.

Authoritarian Government, Meet the Info Revolution (1)

Whuffo (1043790) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768002)

One thing that the internet does very well is to provide access to far-flung data, routing around damage or blockage as necessary. Part of that is in the design of the basic system - and part of it is in the large number of people who won't allow anyone to "disappear" information.

The information revolution is still in its early stages; there are still many institutions that depend upon hiding information to exist which haven't realized that their cloak of secrecy is blowing away in the breeze. China's government is the largest of these institutions - but they'll eventually discover that the harder you try to hide the information the more widely distributed it becomes.

Those authoritarian leaders can block YouTube - and their team of spooks can try to discover all the proxy servers and block them too. But it's a lost cause; they may slow the spread, but they can't prevent their tales from being told to all who are interested.

Will those leaders finally discover how to totally hide their misdeeds - or will they finally fall when their subjects discover what kind of leaders they have and vote them out / overthrow them?

It's going to take a few years for all this stuff to sort itself out. But I think that in the end, there's going to be a lot more freedom in this world of ours.

Why support them? (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768016)

When you buy a product made in China you are indirectly supporting them. So why do it?

Tibet is part of China (1)

iknownuttin (1099999) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768020)

As far as the Chinese people and her Government are concerned, Tibet is and has always been a part of China. That's their point of view and that's why you're not going to see anything negative about this from China and her people. And why they don't give a rat's ass about what we decedent, stupid, lazy, barbarian Westerners have to say about it.

Here's an idea - an online protest (1)

thewils (463314) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768022)

Given that amongst the /. readership there must be quite a few webmasters it should be possible to mirror some of the banned content on lots of webservers/sites around the world. If this was done, say, all on a single day and as such a day I would suggest day one of the games in August, then no way could China shut down access to all the sites at once. True, the average Chinese browser would have a job finding some sites, but if there were enough of them then the chances of someone stumbling upon the content would be pretty good. Also, links could be created to the content from other websites which have a higher profile. The web would be flooded with stuff the Chinese Govt doesn't want punters to see but they shouldn't be able to lop off large tracts of the web without annoying all the foreign journalists based there during the games.

Just a thought...

The monks moved too early (1)

MLCT (1148749) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768046)

They should have done this in August - more publicity and much harder for the Chinese authorities to deny it had happened.

Alternatively... (1)

jamar0303 (896820) | more than 6 years ago | (#22768088)

I find that Nico Nico Video [nicovideo.jp] is still accessible and fully usable. Yes, call me a weeaboo all you like for using a Japanese site but at least it works.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>