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Blu-ray BD+ Cracked

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the bigger-they-come dept.

Media 521

An anonymous reader writes "In July 2007, Richard Doherty of the Envisioneering Group (BD+ Standards Board) declared: 'BD+, unlike AACS which suffered a partial hack last year, won't likely be breached for 10 years.' Only eight months have passed since that bold statement, and Slysoft has done it again. According to the press release, the latest version of their flagship product AnyDVD HD can automatically remove BD+ protection and allows you to back-up any Blu-ray title on the market."

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Re: BD+ Cracked (5, Insightful)

Panaqqa (927615) | more than 6 years ago | (#22817950)

I'm beginning to increasingly believe the old cliche, "Information wants to be free".

Re: BD+ Cracked (5, Insightful)

TheLinuxSRC (683475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818070)

The whole problem with encrypted media is that in order for the customer to want to purchase it, they will need to access the media they have purchased. In order to access that media, they will at some point need the key(s) that unlock it. Simply put, the purchaser of the media has the locked media, but they will also have the key. If you give people the key to the lock along with the lock, it is only a matter of time before someone figures out how to get the key.

Re: BD+ Cracked (1, Offtopic)

Calydor (739835) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818190)

First post modded redundant. Moderators, please send me an email with the specs for your time machines, I want one.

Re: BD+ Cracked (2, Insightful)

scubamage (727538) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818702)

As long as the content ultimately gets decrypted/decoded to a format which is percievable to human senses, it can be cracked. There is nothing stopping a dedicated pirate from going, pixel by pixel, dumping the current pixel color values into a massive 2d array - in fact in the pre-deCSS days there was a program that worked with PowerDVD by doing that very thing. Dump all the pixelvalues as arrays into a screenshot bypassing Windows, then stream together the screenshots in a video format of your choice, and you've got uncompressed, perfect digital video. From there you can just run a male to male cable from your stereo out jack to an audio input, and you've got your sound. Mux them together and you've got everything you need to make your pirated copy. Its low tech, but it works. The fact is, no matter what these antipiracy groups do, they can *NOT* beat technology with more technology. Because all it takes is a bored geek with a soldering iron and some spare time to bring down their house of cards.

Well.... (1, Insightful)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22817956)

Well time for me to go buy a blu-ray player now that I know that if it fails, I can back up my data onto my PC, play them on Linux and actually be able to use blu-ray.

Re:Well.... (1)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818204)


Seconded. I've been holding off from getting a drive for my computer until I saw some reliable and irrevocable cracks available. If this one looks like it will be permanent, then I'll probably get one. Though I'd like to see the price of movies go down first and I may wait until we get some cheaper models. But this is a necessary step for me to buy a drive. Good news!

Re:Well.... (-1, Flamebait)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818402)

Have you ever thought of using a Blu-ray drive on your computer to back up data, and not just to copy stolen movies?

Re:Well.... (3, Insightful)

Tanktalus (794810) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818450)

Have you ever thought that your own paid-for movies are just data?

Re:Well.... (1)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818652)

Have you ever thought that your own paid-for movies are just data?

No, and books are more than dead trees with ink squirted on them too.

Re:Well.... (4, Insightful)

PJ1216 (1063738) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818460)

not every movie copied has to be stolen. and i doubt he was planning on stealing. especially since he said he also wants to wait for the prices of the movies to come down. which he has a point with. i mean, i've seen some movies go for $35.

Re:Well.... (1)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818614)

i mean, i've seen some movies go for $35.

I just bought a Blu-ray movie here last week. It was maybe $3 more than the DVD version? Which is not bad considering the lower production volumes. These prices will drop significantly now that HD-DVD is out of the picture.

Re:Well.... (1)

nEJC76 (904161) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818484)

No... why?

Re:Well.... (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818682)

Not when you can buy two 1TB hard drives for the price of a BD burner and some blank discs.

Re:Well.... (1)

pyite (140350) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818742)

Have you ever thought of using a Blu-ray drive on your computer to back up data, and not just to copy stolen movies?

Who said they're stolen? I have an HD-DVD player and while I've rented a bunch of titles through NetFlix, I never bought a single HD-DVD disc. Why? I have no drive to back them up, so my purchasing them is useless to me.

Re:Well.... (1)

scubamage (727538) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818746)

Why was this rated troll? Seems like a completely justified response to me... some mods are just stupid :( I admit, now that blu ray has been cracked I may actually look at purchasing a player. I don't 'do' closed standards.. or effectively closed standards (as DVD has long been considered to be effectively open thanks to deCSS)

What protection (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22817962)

BR titles appear online before the release date, just like other media. So what protection does the article think is being beaten?

pwned (5, Insightful)

JeepFanatic (993244) | more than 6 years ago | (#22817972)

When will people learn that making bold statements about their technology's security will only make them look like a fool when it is finally broken?

Re:pwned (2, Informative)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818066)

It's OK to make bold statements if you can do it with humor and not depend on the failure of that statement.

But when it comes to things like DRM and security it's just a disaster waiting to happen. What happens is that this will be a magnet and a challenge for all hackers regardless of intent just because they want to prove the statement wrong.

Re:pwned (4, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818110)

why call it disaster? it's GOOD when any and all copy protection schemes are broken so I can get fair use out of my purchases. Those who are creating DRM are trying to take away my rights. When will they learn they may as well just abandon their wasted efforts and instead get smarter about how content is priced, sold and distributed.

Re:pwned (3, Interesting)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818262)


The only bad thing about BD+ being cracked is that it didn't happen sooner. A naive faith that it would be secure may have been one of the factors in studios throwing their weight behind Blue-ray instead of HD. Now that HD seems to be going down the pipes, it leaves blue ray in a monopoly position, free to keep their prices high. Okay - it's not quite a monopoly position as they still have to compete with traditional DVDs. But it's a worse situation for the public than if HD were still around. Still, every little crack helps.

Re:pwned (1)

God'sDuck (837829) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818400)

There can still be competition between manufacturers without competition between codecs...

Re:pwned (4, Insightful)

PJ1216 (1063738) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818610)

this whole "blu-ray monopoly" thing is getting old. prices went up because they don't have to undercut their costs anymore. now, prices will eventually go down when the technology is actually cheaper. DVDs were expensive at one point too, but had no competition at the time (if you really want to count VHS, thats up to you). They started high (in some categories, higher than hi-def dvds), but due to never having to undercut their costs, they started as high as they could and then went down. Blu-ray didn't start as high as it could. It noticed it had to cut profits to try to win first. Now, they don't have to. Prices are now controlled by the actual cost of the equipment. Competing formats is *NOT* good for the consumer unless all content is available on all formats. The fact that one of the hi-def formats died is *GOOD* for the consumer. Competition isn't automatically good for the consumer and a so-called 'monopoly' (which is most definitely isn't) isn't automatically bad. When HD was around, it was a terrible situation. People were torn between choosing various studios. What if I liked movies from two studios that weren't on the same format? I'd have to buy a dual-player or even just two players. How can you justify saying its a good thing for consumers that they'd have to pay twice as much money on equipment?

Anyhow, on the topic at hand, is anyone really surprised it got cracked? DRM will eventually die at some point. Right now its just something that we gotta continue fighting until companies realize they lose more money by utilizing it. Music has begun dropping DRM. Some book companies have started releasing straight pdf's of books without any DRM. Video will eventually follow.

Re:pwned (1)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818524)

I'm not disagreeing with your statement that people have to get smarter about pricing and distribution of movies, but how is copy protection preventing you from getting fair use out of your movies? You can still watch them any time you like with the copy protection there or not.

Re:pwned (4, Informative)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818598)

You bought a disk full of data.

DRM locks the data to the disk, requiring you to risk damaging the only copy of the data you bought in order to access said data.

Fair use is copying the data you bought to another device so you can access it from there.

I'm surprised you need it explaining to you, are you a bit dumb ?

Re:pwned (5, Informative)

mstahl (701501) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818754)

The copy protection is meant to prevent you from backing up your only copy of the disk to another device, which falls under fair use. Also, you cannot format-shift because of the copy protection. If you buy an HD movie and want to downsample it for use on your iPod, you can't unless you get past the copy protection.

The studio's line works just fine if you're okay only watching your movies in your Blu-Ray player and only if the keys to the disks are still valid and only if you even still have a blu-ray player years from now. If you buy a movie you should be able to enjoy it howsoever you see fit as long as that doesn't involve charging people money to view it or selling copies you've made from it.

Seriously. You must be new here 'cause I might just be modded redundant people have been over this so many times on Slashdot.

Re:pwned (1)

ImTheDarkcyde (759406) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818606)

is that why the majority of HD torrents all came from cracked HD-DVDs, and soon from Blurays?

You can complain all you want about wanting to play your hd movies on linux, but the simple fact is that BD+ has kept blurays off torrent sites where people are certainly NOT "backing up," and that's the point of DRM, no matter how you would like to pretend they want to steal rights from the customer, it has always been about preventing people from just stealing the movie.

Re:pwned (5, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818090)

They know damn well that no DRM is ever really secure. But the bread and butter of these companies is to sucker the studios into thinking otherwise. So they don't make such statements because they actually believe them, but to sell their DRM scheme. By the time it gets cracked (usually about 5 minutes after anyone bothers to try), they've already made their money and can laugh all the way to the bank.

Re:pwned (4, Interesting)

phobos13013 (813040) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818572)

Be assured it was this argument that Sony brought to the studios to get them to kill the (IMO better standard) of HD-DVD since it has already been cracked. Also, be assured that Sony knew their argument was bullshit. Sadly, it was this lie that killed the standard, not a few thousand people skewing consumer purchasing towards BD. Ca va...

Re:pwned (4, Funny)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818118)

It was eight months ago. The crowd he delivered his statement to doesn't have that kind of attention span.

Re:pwned (1)

raddan (519638) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818192)

There are a lot of people on the planet.

Re:pwned (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818424)

Making a statement as bold as this not only makes you look stupid when it's inevitably cracked, but I'd wager that it also serves as a challenge to those who want to try and crack it and only serves to motivate them to find it faster.

Re:pwned (-1, Offtopic)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818452)

When will people learn that making bold statements about their technology's security will only make them look like a fool when it is finally broken?

Kinda like Bush and the propagandist "Mission Accomplished" speech on the Iraq war 5 years ago?

Barrier to Ownership (4, Insightful)

tompatman (936656) | more than 6 years ago | (#22817988)

Now that that's been handled, looks like it's time to start shopping for a BD player.

Re:Barrier to Ownership (4, Insightful)

chasingporsches (659844) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818062)

i completely agree... and i think that's the message that movie studios should be taking from this -- now that it's possible to create backups, more people are wanting to buy BD players when they wouldn't have otherwise -- not that the pirates have won again.

Re:Barrier to Ownership (1)

Crucial (97001) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818414)

I agree. However, it's a shame that this crack of the DRM is coming so close to the end of the format war and the exchange offers most stores are supporting. The numbers of people that are going to buy BR players because of the fair use now are only going to get lost in the shuffle now.

Re:Barrier to Ownership (1, Troll)

jank1887 (815982) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818536)

heh... waiting to buy until you could create backups.... right.

because of my 200 disc DVD library, I've backed-up so many of them. in fact, if I couldn't make backups, there's no way I would have bought DVD's. /sarcasm

Let's be honest, this is good for only two reasons:
(1) the legit side: ripping movies to a media server of some sort for use in your home. (maybe even just as a "backup" archive.) (2) the non-legit side: making copies of movies for your friends, making perfectly clean BlueRay torrents, getting movies you didn't pay for, etc.

I'm all for #1. #2, not so much. But to each his own.

Re:Barrier to Ownership (1)

3vi1 (544505) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818580)

I don't think the studios care how many players of a specific type you buy. They want you to buy *movies*.

Preferably to them, you will buy the same movies again and again, on VHS, on Laserdisc, on DVD, on HD-DVD, on Blu-Ray, on Home-3D, on SHD-Home-3D, on Virtua-Realitiscope, on...

Re:Barrier to Ownership (1)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818634)

I'm advising customers against BD players until the newer spec is out. If anything, invest in a PS3 that is fully software/firmware driven vs "hardware" platforms such as standalone players. While some of the features aren't that great, i wouldn't want people to be screwed multiple times in the same format war.

Unfortunately at the same time, I have a fairly large return/RMA of PS3's for people that are heavily watching movies. The units simply stop turning on or won't play disks after a while. Perhaps it was just a sour batch i was allocated as i haven't seen much discussion of this elsewhere bit it is annoying to spend 399 and be out a game system and movie player.

Obligatory (-1, Offtopic)

Stu Charlton (1311) | more than 6 years ago | (#22817998)

roflmao [youtube.com]

Re:Obligatory (1)

Miseph (979059) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818326)

I wish that they'd chosen to accompany what's actually a pretty good filk with something other than another lame video of WoW characters dancing.

why? (1)

ratonu (868505) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818002)

I am beginning to ask myself: why are we always happy because of such news? I mean yes, we are all little pirates at the bottom of our hearts and we all liked Robin Hood, but shouldn't we start thinking more responsible towards how technology advancement can occur? --- yes, i am now waiting for the open-source (no patents) advocates to bring their artillery in, but common, do think about this.

Re:why? (5, Insightful)

lilmunkysguy (740848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818122)

I am beginning to ask myself: why are we always happy because of such news? I mean yes, we are all little pirates at the bottom of our hearts and we all liked Robin Hood, but shouldn't we start thinking more responsible towards how technology advancement can occur?
We are happy because if we purchase a product, we feel we should be able to use it however we want to. DRM puts restrictions on how we can use the product we own. Removing those restrictions and allowing more freedom makes us happy.

Re:why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818348)

but shouldn't we start thinking more reponsible towards how technology advancement can occur?

Nope. Next question, please, and this time don't phrase it like you know what's best for me.

Re:why? (2, Interesting)

sveinungkv (793083) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818418)

shouldn't we start thinking more responsible towards how technology advancement can occur?
Some will claim that to break it is the only responsible ting to do when facing DRM. Not all technological advancements are good. DRM removes control over real property from its owners. You could therefore claim that advancements that break DRM are good and those that enhance DRM are bad (if those are their only consequences).

yes, i am now waiting for the open-source (no patents) advocates to bring their artillery in, but common, do think about this.
This is, by the way, not about time limited artificial government granted monopoles on ideas (patents). It is about eternal artificial government granted monopoles on reading information that has some form of DRM (part of DMCA).

Re:why? (4, Insightful)

tolan-b (230077) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818476)

1. This won't affect piracy, the places where you can get pirated movies are already full of BD releases so obviously those creating the pirated releases were already able to get the data (probably by ripping it out of the decoded video stream at some point).

2. Software patents or no, I believe that I should be able to do what I want with something I purchase as long as it's not harming others. Moving my movies from physical disks to my media server is not harming anybody.

3. As others have already said, DRM is fundamentally broken. To view DRM encrypted content you have to have the keys. If you have the keys then the encryption can't be secure. The sooner people (the content industries) realise this the sooner they can stop pissing off their legitimate consumers without actually denting piracy. This is a win for all. EMI have realised this, and I think a couple of other music studios, now it's just a waiting game until the rest of them get it.

new slashdot tag anyone (0)

ionix5891 (1228718) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818004)

wontbebreachedfor10years

Marketing, all marketing... (1)

downix (84795) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818006)

These kinds of bold statements are all thoughout history. "Unsinkable Titanic" for example. Take with grain of salt.

Re:Marketing, all marketing... (-1, Offtopic)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818578)

Republicans are full of statements like that: 'no new taxes', 'mission accomplished', 'we had no knowledge of arms for hostages', 'the Taliban are good religious people fighting against the godless soviets' ...

Not fully broken (4, Informative)

Watson Ladd (955755) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818012)

Wikipedia states that it only enables backups, which are then played with a software player which is Blu-Ray compatible. It doesn't look like VLC will be playing BD+ protected media anytime soon.

Re:Not fully broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818064)

Damn. Cancel that movie purchase.

Re:Not fully broken (1)

Oxy the moron (770724) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818080)

Theoretically, though... once you have it playing on your PC in any form like that, couldn't you capture the video output to some other device and have an unencrypted form of the video that way?

Re:Not fully broken (0, Flamebait)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818278)

Not with Vista [wikipedia.org] you can't... or won't be able to in the future rather.

Re:Not fully broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818352)

Of course - that's good for piracy. But wouldn't it be nice if you could play your legally purchased movies on your Linux box? I no longer have a television since I consider it unnecessary waste of space (my student appartment is small) but instead use my Linux box with a TV card and a DVD player. And an additional benefit is that when I eventually want a bigger screen I'll get a bigger TV and monitor for the same price :)

Re:Not fully broken (2, Informative)

TheGreatOrangePeel (618581) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818616)

Absolutely. There is one caveat, however: Do you think your 4head VHS recorded copy of a BlueRay disk is going to look all that good?

Even if you record in another digital format you're going to lose quality and at the same time run into possible signal loss problems (depending on your setup) while the picture is on the wire.

I'm no expert, but I have done some TV capture and video encoding stuff with VirtualDub and if I were going to do this, I would want to use some kind of digital signal out (HDMI, DVI) of one computer DIRECTLY into a digital video input of another and capture all the images in some kind of raw format (I'd want to do similar with the audio). Now, keep in mind that you're losing a lot of resolution that's available on the disk that your graphics card likely isn't capable of spitting out, so, if you're lucky, the result would look almost as good as the original disk and, assuming it is, the resulting file would be HUGE (like, I-don't-know-if-NTFS-can-handle-that-big-of-a-file kind of huge). This is all assuming that you didn't get IM'd or have a system tray balloon pop up while you're in the middle of this process.

Technical details aside, there's still one practical problem: You'd have to play the movie at normal speed to record it to another format/device anyway, so you might as well just watch it where you're at and forget about trying to capture it.

Re:Not fully broken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818164)

Great. So BD+ can't avoid piracy anymore... but it will stay for his only actual use, fuck up non-Windows users.

Re:Not fully broken (1)

NothingMore (943591) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818310)

Yes it is, you just have to convert the files to something that VLC can play (which you could not do before this hack was found). 3 cheers for not being locked to the super crappy powerDVD software anymore.

Re:Not fully broken (1)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818626)

It's a matter of time until VLC supports BD playback. Besides, pure software decoders are mostly useless without hardware accelerators.

The link is a trap (5, Funny)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818018)

Its not really details of how it works, its a FBI sting to get people that are intent on learning 'forbidden knowledge".

Re:The link is a trap (1, Funny)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818060)

You must be new here, we on /. never RTFA

Re:The link is a trap (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818288)

While i was 1/2 joking, that means i was 1/2 serious too.

I can see the FBI/etc putting fake websites up for things like crack sites, or security hacking sites as you know if a person goes there they HAVE to intend to do something bad.. How about a fake KKK site, since we all know if you read that you will go out and kill people? What if you bought a book at amazon ( or just searched for one.. ) telling you how to make a machine gun, or a bomb... means you are a terrorist, right?

The fact they are getting away with this means really scary times ahead.

Re:The link is a trap (1)

BosstonesOwn (794949) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818454)

I hope not, I have to follow security sites that the bad guys put up to help secure my servers. I guess I'd be in jail for doing my job and trying to stay abreast of the world wide hacker web.

Bogus claims (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818022)

This is completely bogus marketing on Slysoft's part. They have "broken" the current titles by extracting the code from each one, but BD+ relies on code being downloaded from the disc itself to decode the data. The bar will just be raised now and new code will be added to newer titles.

wait for the outcome? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818024)

"Admittedly, we are not really so fast with this because actually we had intended to publish this release already in December as promised. However, it was decided for strategic reasons to wait a bit for the outcome of the "format war" between HD DVD and Blu-ray."

Interesting that they wanted to wait for the outcome before releasing this. It's almost as if they were waiting to thumb their nose at the BD camp once all the companies had moved over to that side. And did anyone get the feeling the press release was run through a translator before they posted it?

unimportant (2, Insightful)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818052)

The vast majority of customers for blu-ray technology won't give a rats arse about this. I certainly don't

We've been able to crack dvd's for years, but every house I visit still has a pile of purchased dvd's, and I know of not one person who backs them up. The only people who use the cracking stuff that I know, do so either directly from borrowed dvd's, or indirectly through downloading movies. A know a few who never buy dvd's, because they prefer some dodgy rip. Beats me why, I know the average quality, and I don't think it's worth it, especially since they usually end up just taking up drive space.

The same will most likely occur with blu-ray. Most, if not all, purchased blu-ray discs will never be backed up. This cracking will be employed only by people who don't want to pay. They most likely wouldn't anyway.

So why don't we just drop this 'legal backup' crap and admit that this is only going to be of use to people who have no intention of buying the 'legal' dvd's in the first place.

Re:unimportant (4, Interesting)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818092)

It however does a few things...

1. It tells that Blu-Ray is already supported enough to buy a player now
2. It allows you to even if Blu-Ray ends up failing, you can rip your Blu-Ray movies to the new format (and don't expect media storage to be made as long as VHS and DVD did anymore...)
3. It will allow various third-party projects to soon take advantage of this (even if right now it only lets you make backups) and add Blu-Ray support to media players on OSes such as Linux.

Re:unimportant (5, Interesting)

Stuart Gibson (544632) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818128)

I agree that is the reason for the vast majority, but there are some cases where people have a legitimate reason. I'm in the process of ripping my 600+ DVDs to an increasingly large hard drive array so I can access them all around the house without the need to get the discs. I know it's unusual but there are legitimate reasons.

Re:unimportant (2, Interesting)

Chabil Ha' (875116) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818284)

I do this at home already, and it's wonderful. My intentions are this: I have a two young kids who like to watch movies and I'm protecting my investment by putting the legally acquired discs on the top shelf of my closet where peanut butter covered fingers can't get them. They get an easy way to watch movies through a client, I get to protect my investment from the inadvertent damage of my kids.

Re:unimportant (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818138)

you obviously don't have kids... how many times have I had DVD's repaired in the past year? I've lost track, some did not work after being "repaired" as well.

Re:unimportant (4, Insightful)

the_other_chewey (1119125) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818194)

The vast majority of customers for blu-ray technology won't give a rats arse about this. I certainly don't

Well, I do. Let me tell you why:
I don't own a TV. I *do* however own a computer with a WUXGA display. In its current
config, my computer would not be "MAFIAA certified" to play BD discs, even if I hab a BD drive.

I want to be able to play the content on my computer.

With the OS of my choice. With a display of my choice. Without this HDCP crap.
I own a bunch of DVDs because deCSS has become ubiquitous today, and nearly every
computer with a DVD drive can play them, without any platform or software dependencies.

I'm waiting for the same to happen for BD - until then, no money from me.
Please make it happen soon, HD video looks great.

Re:unimportant (2)

JeepFanatic (993244) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818210)

While I agree with you that the MAJORITY of people use these technologies because they don't intend to pay for movies, I actually myself archive DVDs for my girlfriend's kids so that they don't ruin the originals (as has already happened on more than one occasion). So now you can amend your blanket statement that ONLY people who don't pay for the movies use the technology.

Re:unimportant (2, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818228)

I think you're wrong about people legally backing up. I know of people that can't navigate a start menu who have backed up their kids DVD's, give the copies to the kids and put the actual DVD's out of reach. I know of people who back up music CD's and only play the backups in cars because they have a tendency to get scratched, lost, trodden on, or left out in the sun.

Only last week, I bought a book that came with a video DVD. It cost me about £30 and the DVD will only play in my DVD player because it's cheaply-produced. It would cost me more in petrol to take it back to the shop than it would to just copy it and I had two DVD-RW drives that could read it, slowly, but they could. So I made a copy and I have that copy tucked inside the book alongside the original.

When we go abroad on holiday, we often go with family and watch DVD's some nights. We'll take copies wherever possible because you don't know what people's machine will do, what the luggage has to go through etc. And it's not unusual for us to leave something in the DVD player. When we travel in our own country, I'll bung hundreds of mp3's and a few movies or a TV series onto a laptop or DVD-R so that we have our own entertainment for travel and/or if our destination doesn't have something to play music on.

I've trained my wife to use backup CD's wherever practical - she ruined the original copy of a CD of the first song I ever bought her and she was devastated, so from then on she's copied every CD that she thinks is worth the effort. The same for a few DVD's but with the CSS and menuing hassles, it was harder to get her into that. With Blu-Ray (or any future technology), if I can't copy them easily, I won't buy them. Even if it comes down to just being able to transcode them to DVD and burning a DVD-R, that's what I'll do. And I have absolutely no doubts that whatever the most common format for purchasing movies/music, there will be a way to copy them sooner or later. At that point and not before, I will buy into the technology, if I feel the need.

Re:unimportant (4, Insightful)

molarmass192 (608071) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818274)

I own and rip my DVDs to put them on my media server. I pay, and I "crack", so I can watch DVDs on demand without hunting them down, sitting through ads, and even on the road on my iPhone. So where do I fit into your argument? I'll concede that some people will borrow / rent DVDs to rip them, but honestly, it's much easier to torrent the movie you want than to rip / encode for 99% of the people out there. I'd say at least 50% of rippers do so legitimately, DMCA not withstanding.

Re:unimportant (2)

debest (471937) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818468)

We've been able to crack dvd's for years, but every house I visit still has a pile of purchased dvd's, and I know of not one person who backs them up.
Well, I'm one who would have never purchased a DVD player without the ability to back them up. I have a small child who likes to watch movies (think Disney/Dreamworks stuff and the like) and although she's finally old enough to be (somewhat) careful, no WAY was she going to lay a hand on any of those DVDs unless they were backed-up copies of the originals. VHS may have degraded over time, but those tapes could stand up to physical abuse way better than an optical disc ever could.

Re:unimportant (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818508)

Very true. Most people aren't interested in cracking and would rather buy originals than futz around ripping or downloading. In this model DVD protection still does the job fine. If you want to rip it you need to download some user unfriendly tool which may or may not work - I remember when structure protection came out it stopped people ripping for a week or so. Anyone that tried it then had a high chance of giving up due to frustration. Downloaded movies tend to be a bit fuzzier than the original due to the extra compression and most people perceive it to be legally risky to download. And there's a meanness issue too. If you watching a movie with non technical people, watching a pirate version comes across as cheap, especially if the quality is worse.

I think this explains the move to HD by studios. Most likely any DRM scheme will be broken and a small minority wil rip, pack and upload movies. But HD is sold as being sharper than DVD. The quality difference between legal versions (30GB) and packed versions which need to be compressed more is likely to be more noticable. On most internet connections, downloading rips is also rather slow.

Ripping tools are illegal too, and that helps enormously. They will always be available of course, and someone determined can always find a version that works in a few days. But because they are non commercial and free there is no incentive to make them user friendly. Most people will therefore not bother. If they were legal people might sell 1 click DVD rippers, and that would enormously increase the number of people who use them. With unencrypted CDs, Apple can sell iTunes which rips to mp3. Other companies sell commercial software which lets people make copies of CDs for their friends. Legally, that's not possible for DVD and BlueRay.

I think slashdot users don't understand this. If everyone was like a typical slashdot user then breaking encryption would be a serious problem for the movie studios. But they aren't and so DRM only needs to make copying fiddly, not impossible. If you really want to rip digital media and are prepared to spend time researching and downloading tools to do it, it will always be possible. But that doesn't really matter, because people that are willing to do that are a small minority.

Re:unimportant (2)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818624)

Um. The *only* way i'm able to even *watch* dvds on my computers (not a single windoze box in the house) is because of 'illegal' copy protection breaks via decss.

Re:unimportant (2)

khafre (140356) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818646)

It's not about backups. I for one like to be able to rip my DVDs to watch on a personal video player (e.g. iPod Touch). Now I can buy my media once on Blu-ray and watch on everything from my big screen to my personal video player.

Re:unimportant (1)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818664)

You don't need to crack anything to make a copy (ok, so you can't easily get media/burner to actually dump the data to another disc). Xine will happily play an image created using 'dd if=/dev/dvd of=bitcopy.img'. The problem comes in wanting to actually watch the thing on any player or hardware you want. AFAIK, decss and the like are still 'illegal'. These things do nothing to stop a bitwise copy to hard disk, since all players need to be able to read the track containing the key to play the movie.

I'll know it when I see it (5, Informative)

AchiIIe (974900) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818058)

Slysoft has made this claim before. It turned out to be bogus. The crack allowed a user to copy a BD to the harddrive and play it back from there using only a specific version of Cyberlink's PowerDVD (3319a), but not to transcode, otherwise manipulate the content or play it back from a burned BD-R or BD-RE. (Wiki)

Now I'd like everyone to remember that BD+ is not an `algorithm` per se. It's not a DRM one way function. BD+ is a virtual machine and a blu ray disk is a full fledged program that runs under the VM and can even run native code to patch and upgrade the virtual machine.

This is akin to running a java application that can inspect the java VM.

It's a cat and mouse game for now.

*Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD%2B [wikipedia.org]

Re:I'll know it when I see it (5, Funny)

webmaster404 (1148909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818130)

If they can patch it we can re/unpatch it. Once the VM ends up being cracked we can do whatever we like with it, like install Linux on it.

Re:I'll know it when I see it (2, Funny)

Rocketship Underpant (804162) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818328)

Wow... I guess we have to imagine a Beowulf cluster of BD+ virtual machines running Linux now. :rolleyes:

Re:I'll know it when I see it (3, Funny)

Constantine XVI (880691) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818372)

Install Linux in Java, on a BD player? Isn't that like putting Jiffy-Pop in the microwave, outside of a supernova?

Re:I'll know it when I see it (5, Funny)

conteXXt (249905) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818374)

"we can do whatever we like with it, like install Linux on it."

24 Carat Pure Slashdot Gold.

We have a winner.

Re:I'll know it when I see it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818442)

Maybe you can believe it when you download it [rlslog.net] ?

"Seeing as BD+ has been cracked you can see that the scene has been flooded with Bluray rips from all kinds of movies [...]"



The flood really speaks for itself.

You are looking at old information (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818492)

You are looking at old information about the 2007 release from SlySoft. The new version (March 18, 2008) *does* completely remove all protection from a BD+ movie, and you get unencrypted and unprotected files that you *can* play in VLC or any other player for the appropriate format (MP2, VC1, etc.) Or as most people do, reencode to H.264 or another MP4 format, ans they take up less space, store them on your media server, and play on any computer/playback device in the house.

Envisioneering - WTF? (2, Funny)

robably (1044462) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818068)

Envisioneering n.
a. The application of false promises to scam money from the gullible. From Envision "to see a way" and Profiteering "to improperly profit by".
b. The profession of or the work performed by an envisioneer.

You Muslim fuckers have no sense of irony... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818072)

From a NY Times article: "Al Qaeda and its supporters have issued several threats against the pope since he quoted a medieval Byzantine emperor in a speech in Germany two years ago referring to Islam as "evil and inhuman." The pope apologized for the anger caused by the speech, saying that the view expressed in the quotation was not his own."

Hmmm, the Pope recites some obscure quote which calls Islam evil and inhuman, and Muslims respond by threatening more evil and inhumanity. "Don't call us violent or we'll blow you up!" What a bunch of ignorant apes. Does anyone deserve to be erased from humanity more than them? BTW, it's so nice of Muslims to insist that we tolerate their arcane beliefs when they live among us, but just try and see what happens to you when you live among them and try to practice your progressive beliefs...

Re:You Muslim fuckers have no sense of irony... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818360)

"Anachronistic" would be a more appropriate word choice than "arcane." Millions understand and practice Islam. The problem is that Islamic theology is essentially stuck in the middle ages, and that it is practiced largely by ignorant, overly-sensitive types who accuse the West of being Crusaders while they silently invade and outbreed the local population.

Ex: In light of the progress the women's movement had made in the West, the practice of female circumcision by the Islamic interlopers seemed anachronistic.

Re:You Muslim fuckers have no sense of irony... (-1, Troll)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818396)

The Pope is a wanker, Al Qaeda are wankers and your mum has asked me to ask you to get out of bed, put your dad's laptop away and come down for breakfast as your shock therapy session at the local loony bin starts in half an hour.

Re:You Muslim fuckers have no sense of irony... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22818632)

Wow, you chose to make a personal attack instead of to refute the original poster's argument. You must be highly intelligent.

8 whole months? (2, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818074)

Wow, these guys are getting slow.

If there were demand, it'd be faster. (1)

DingerX (847589) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818256)

I mean, come on. The HD war so far only has losers.

That tactic speaks volumes. (2, Insightful)

jskline (301574) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818144)

It really does. If they "delayed" release of this, then they must have been waiting to "lock in" the format war so that they wouldn't have to go supporting both standards. Apparently the Blu Ray was easy enough for them and now that there is "vendor lock-in", this pretty much says that they really are dictating the markets. This really speaks volumes about marketing tactics.

ItJust too hard (1, Interesting)

FoolsGold (1139759) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818202)

Let's face it, no matter how difficult the DRM becomes, there's always, always going to be the analogue component to deal with - the physical images which our eyes see, and the physical sound waves which our ears pick up. Capturing both outside of a digital signal is ALWAYS going to be possible - it's obviously the worst case scenario, and it might not be as elegant as capturing a digital signal directly, but you'll still get the content one way or the other.

The only way I can see this being defeated is if the content providers forced people to bypass these analogue pickups by connecting directly to one's brain. Fucked if I can think of anyone daring enough to then install cracks to bypass the copy-protection in their brain - what if they comes with a trojan?

Or a root-kit? In a brain... Shit, maybe Sony have ulterior motives darker than anyone predicted. :)

NO (1)

PieceofLavalamp (1244192) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818290)

at the very end of the article it says this might make studios rethink their position and give HD-DVD a chance...

NO bad dog NO *gacks slysoft with newspaper*

Re:NO (2, Interesting)

PalmKiller (174161) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818438)

Yes, and this makes me wonder if his crack was a futile attempt to make the folks bring back his favorite of the two formats. He inadvertently helped put the nails in HD DVD's coffin, now hes trying to make up for it. Well its too little too late I think, but its interesting and he probably had the crack all along for bluray, he probably just thought that releasing the HD one would drum up more interest in the format and kill off bluray....in the end it ovviously backfired.

"Crack" Has Important Use Unrelated to Ripping (4, Informative)

fyrie (604735) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818434)

The crack allows you to play the media at full quality on systems that do not have a fully HDCP compliant chain. Example: If you have a home theater TV hooked up to an older HDTV that only has component inputs, or if you have a non HDCP video card, you can use this "crack" to play your discs at full quality.

Re:"Crack" Has Important Use Unrelated to Ripping (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818748)

The crack allows you to play the media at full quality on systems that do not have a fully HDCP compliant chain.
Are you sure? I think what they did was just find out a way to copy BD+ protected discs with the protection intact, not strip BD+ / decrypt the material?

So it would in this case be a crack in the sense that people can now start downloading 1:1 copies from The Pirate Bay, but not a crack in the sense that you can use non-HDCP compliant hardware.

This enlarges the customer base (2, Insightful)

PhilLong (42015) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818570)

As was posted earlier to /. regarding gaming, the studios et. al. should really focus on _customers_, not pirates because, duh, customers buy things. Some customers demand fair use rights by hook or crook (for example those that want for various reasons to have a lone htpc+speakers+monitor be your entire HT), and now that slysoft has provided for a fee, the _customer_ base for Fox. et. al. just expanded. The pirate base is probably unchanged by this, so really the studios should be celebrating, and the people that should really be cackeling incessantly are the ones that get the mandatory fee paid for providing the snake oil that is the useless AACS and BD+ "protections". From the slysoft AnyDVD HD forum: Xtrap1979 I can now make a collective order of all the Fox titles http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=14787&page=3 [slysoft.com]

I've cracked CD's before (1, Funny)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 6 years ago | (#22818728)

Gotta watch when I put my ass.
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