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US "Fusion Centers" For Intelligence Sharing

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the if-you're-not-doing-anything-wrong dept.

Privacy 116

Wired has an article on the national fusion centers in the US, which were created to aid intelligence-sharing in the fight against terrorism but are increasingly being used to look at other sorts of crimes. The keynote of these centers is "all hazards, all threats" — the LA police chief is quoted: "Information that might seem innocuous may have some connection to terrorism." The ACLU has up an interactive US map to help you become acquainted with your local fusion center.

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Idaho? (1)

calebt3 (1098475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831412)

So will Idaho become the new Silicon Valley?

Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues (0)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831958)

9 Oct. 1962

I was feeling sick down and blue,
Didn't know what in the world I was gonna do.
Them communist they were comin' around,
They were in the air
They were on the ground.
They wouldn't give me no peace.

So I run down most hurriedly
And joined the John Birch Society.
Got me a secret membership card,
Started walking off down the road.
Yoohoo, I'm a real John Bircher now.
Look out you commies.

Well we all agree with Hitler's views,
Although he killed six millions Jews.
It don't matter too much if he was a fascist,
At least you can't say he was a communist.
That's to say like if you got a cold
Take a shot of malaria.

I was looking everywhere for them goddarn reds,
I got up in the morning, looked under my bed.
Looked in the kitchen, behind the door,
looked in the glove department of my car.
Couldn't find them.

I's looking for them reds everywhere,
Looked underneath the sofa
Underneath every chair,
Looked up my chimney hole,
Looked deep down inside my toilet bowl.
They got away.

I was sitting home alone, I started to sweat.
I figured they was in my tv set.
Peeked behind the picture frame,
Got a shock from my feet right up to my brain.
Them reds caused it.
I know they did, them hard core ones.

Well I quit my job so I could work all alone,
and I changed my name to Sherlock Holmes.
Followed some clues in my detective bag,
I discovered there was red stripes in the American flag.
Poor Betsy Ross.

Investigated all the books in the library.
Ninety nine percent of those gotta be burned away.
Investigated all the people that I know.
Ninety eight percent of them gotta go.
The other two percent are fellow birchers
Just like me. Truly fair.

Now Eisenhower he's a Russian spy,
Lincoln, Jefferson and that Roosevelt guy.
To my knowledge there's just one man
That's really a true American.
George Lincoln Rockwell.
I know for a fact he hates commies
Because he picketed the movie Exodus.

Well I finally started thinking straight
when I ran out of things to investigate.
Couldn't imagine to do anything else,
So now I'm home investigating myself.
Hope I don't find out too much. Great God

Re:Idaho? (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833088)

Speaking of the states, what is up with California having 7 fusion centers? New York has 3 and the rest of the states(note: I didn't check 'em all) seem to have 1 each. Here's some chilling info from TFA about the Maryland center:

"...15 reps from private sector groups to work on how to structure relationship between center and private entities; Finance and transportation sectors have been strong in getting and sharing info. Transportation partners include Amtrak, CSX, some airlines, metro, light rail. "

The UK just announced these as well (3, Informative)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831430)

Though over here I believe they are regional Counter Terrorism Units.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/19/gordon_brown_jack_bauer_ctu_counter_terror_plan/ [theregister.co.uk]

Re:The UK just announced these as well (4, Insightful)

NeverVotedBush (1041088) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831786)

We should call them "Departments of Precrime" because essentially, that's what they are.

Re:The UK just announced these as well (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832282)

Naah, nobody can understand that name. Make it "Ministry of we-know-you-did-it".

They are part of Total Information Awareness. (1, Informative)

Mactrope (1256892) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833354)

The original term for this "Homeland Defense" monstrosity was "Total Information Awareness" and it was well underway before 9/11. It's so repulsive and unAmerican that the US Congress overwhelmingly ordered it shut down. Bush moved it to the NSA instead [stallman.org] , so it is doing just fine.

Be advised that the terrorists who run this program think they have the right to detain and torture people without charge. When they are finished beating you they dump you in a foreign country where you might be murdered or starve before you can get back home.

Re:They are part of Total Information Awareness. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834798)

What a coincidence, well-known troll twitter just posted that very same link in his journal [slashdot.org] .

Read: data mining (5, Insightful)

TheMeuge (645043) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831442)

In other words, these are data mining centers, designed to organize and classify the information obtained via unconstitutional surveillance and data sharing programs, in addition to the myriad of legal sources. There, FBI personnel will work hard to ensure that nobody who orders pizza at 11:43PM, while purchasing a copy of "Diary of Anne Frank" online, gets away with the undoubtedly terrorist activities they might be planning (they may not even know it themselves, but that's just because the data mining is so good).

Re:Read: data mining (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22831598)

Do you have proof it is unconstitutional?

Re:Read: data mining (4, Insightful)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831708)

See, it wasn't supposed to work like that, at least on paper. The federal government was only *supposed* to have a small list of powers given in the Constitution, and it was supposed to be up to the people wanting to implement new stuff to justify it based on the list of things the feds were allowed to do.

Of course, your question is apparently completely appropriate today, because it seems that government at any level is allowed to do anything they want, unless it's explicity forbidden in the Bill of Rights (and sometimes even that doesn't matter). It appears that nowadays if you can't muster the cash to pay for a squad of lawyers to prove to another squad of lawyers that the government is explicitly not allowed to do something, then it can just happen freely by default.

Re:Read: data mining (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832486)

See, it wasn't supposed to work like that, at least on paper. The federal government was only *supposed* to have a small list of powers given in the Constitution, and it was supposed to be up to the people wanting to implement new stuff to justify it based on the list of things the feds were allowed to do.

Of course, your question is apparently completely appropriate today, because it seems that government at any level is allowed to do anything they want, unless it's explicity forbidden in the Bill of Rights (and sometimes even that doesn't matter). It appears that nowadays if you can't muster the cash to pay for a squad of lawyers to prove to another squad of lawyers that the government is explicitly not allowed to do something, then it can just happen freely by default.
Except the US Constitution give the legislative branch pretty broad powers, IMHO:

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

(SNIP)

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.


While the "general welfare" statement is certainly open to interpretation (by the Supremes) I could see where it, along with the common defense part, would allow for Fusion Centers; how the info is subsequently used for non-terrorist crimes is also open to debate but may be covered under "common welfare" as well.

Of course, IANAS, so my opinion is not binding.

Re:Read: data mining (1)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832634)

I suppose it hinges on what the "foregoing powers" actually are--if the "general welfare" clause is a catch-all that lets Congress do anything they deem necessary, then sure, there's no point in arguing over whether *anything* is unconstitutional. I don't know enough about the history of law to say if "common defense and general welfare" ever had a specific, well-defined meaning, or if it really was intended as a catch-all.

Re:Read: data mining (1)

I_Voter (987579) | more than 6 years ago | (#22835832)

NewbieProgrammerMan wrote:
See, it wasn't supposed to work like that, at least on paper.

---

Actually our "founding fathers," tended to trust people more than pieces of paper. Their famous bad mouthing of democracy, at least in it's pure form, doesn't change the fact that the citizen jury, not the Supreme court, was the primary defense against government tyranny.

This is how it worked in England, and the English replacement of jury trials with admiralty courts was a prime reason for the colonies declaration of war.

My short polemical introduction to the subject:

The Constitutional Relationship between the Law and the People
http://tinyurl.com/3du9ec [tinyurl.com]

I_Voter

IMO: A history of popular sovereignty in the U.S. would show an ever increasing franchise, along with a continued erosion of the power of that franchise To put it another way, the voter has far less political power today than they would have had in say 1830.

Re:Read: data mining (2, Informative)

Travoltus (110240) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831760)

No unreasonable search or seizure without due process. Guess which amendment that is.

This is hardly reasonable.

Re:Read: data mining (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22832368)

Which is nice, but a lot of business are more than willing to hand their records over to the police for a fee, provided the government doesn't share it with other businesses.

The Constitution can't protect us against people who are willing to give away their privacy.

Re:Read: data mining (1)

The Spoonman (634311) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833872)

The Constitution can't protect us against people who are willing to give away their privacy.

The Constitution can't protect us against people who are willing to give away OUR privacy.

There, I fixeded it for you. After all, it is OUR information they're giving away.

Re:Read: data mining (2, Informative)

jo42 (227475) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831604)

Under previous regimes and in precedent times such organizations where named "Stasi [wikipedia.org] " and "KGB [wikipedia.org] ".

Oh, Amerika, you are becoming what you fought so hard against...

Re:Read: data mining (4, Insightful)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831714)

Under previous regimes and in precedent times such organizations where named "Stasi" and "KGB". Oh, Amerika, you are becoming what you fought so hard against...

Not really, the FBI is subject to the oversight of a freely and fairly elected congress. That's incredibly different than the precedents you offer. Collecting and analyzing data is something that law enforcement has legitimately done for centuries, data mining is just automation.

Re:Read: data mining (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22831784)

Not really, the FBI is subject to the oversight of a freely and fairly elected congress.
Yeah, it's so great the the Pelosi/Reid led Congress has been having hearings about such important things like steroid use in baseball 10 years ago.

BFD.

What about the FISA extension that Congress left unvoted on for weeks? What about looking into the junk mortgage market?

No, we found out Roger Clemens is a lying sack of shit.

Re:Read: data mining (1)

statemachine (840641) | more than 6 years ago | (#22835142)

What about the FISA extension that Congress left unvoted on for weeks?

Oh, you mean the bill that President Bush promised to veto if it did not reach his desk without retroactive immunity for AT&T and other telecom companies that broke the law?

You mean this pointless bill [informationweek.com] ?

FISA allows for warrantless wiretaps already. Nothing changed by making the FBI seek a judge's approval in 3 days after the wiretap rather than never.

Who modded you up? You obviously don't read /. or the news. But you sure love to spread the FUD.

Re:Read: data mining (1)

darkpixel2k (623900) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831802)

Not really, the FBI is subject to the oversight of a freely and fairly elected congress.

Remember that the next time you're watching an episode of Cops and laughing your ass off.
Bwahaha. That guy is such a f*cking idio...OMG I hope he doesn't vote.

Or closer to home, look at your neighbors. They vote too. The a**hole who constantly walks his dog over to my yard so it can take a dump--he votes. And the dude across the street who is ALWAYS in his bathrobe drinking a beer 24/7 votes.

Now I'm not saying communism or socialism is the way--it's just a much faster road to the end.

Re:Read: data mining (1, Insightful)

cheater512 (783349) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832456)

Um... We are talking about the US here.

No body votes so you have nothing to be worried about.

Re:Read: data mining (1)

nbauman (624611) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833320)

Under previous regimes and in precedent times such organizations where named "Stasi" and "KGB". Oh, Amerika, you are becoming what you fought so hard against...

Not really, the FBI is subject to the oversight of a freely and fairly elected congress. That's incredibly different than the precedents you offer. Collecting and analyzing data is something that law enforcement has legitimately done for centuries, data mining is just automation.

Really? Exactly who had oversight over the FBI agents and the [Republican] Justice Department agents who data mined [Democrat] Eliot Spitzer's bank deposits? Or [Democratic] Governor Don Siegelman? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/nyregion/21justice.html [nytimes.com] http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/10/spitzer/index.html [salon.com]

Re:Read: data mining (1)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834196)

Really? Exactly who had oversight over the FBI agents and the [Republican] Justice Department agents who data mined [Democrat] Eliot Spitzer's bank deposits? Or [Democratic] Governor Don Siegelman?

You are naive to believe that politics is involved. There is no shortage of republicans that have been burned by law enforcement including the feds. Hell, Spitzer himself authorized/requested plenty of investigations including those involving prostitution, that is part of the press frenzy of this case. Also, analysis of banking activity has been going on since the 1970s, maybe even the 1960s. Banks, auto dealers, etc have been required to report sufficiently large cash transactions for many decades. Your tinfoil had may be a little too tight, try loosening it up one rivet hole. :-)

Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (4, Insightful)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831644)

FBI personnel will work hard to ensure that nobody who orders pizza at 11:43PM, while purchasing a copy of "Diary of Anne Frank" online

The point of data mining is that some connections are not obvious at all, pizza and books are legitimate pieces of data from a scientific/statistical point of view.

We know that the enemy favors couriers, a routine delivery person like a pizza delivery boy makes a good courier. Especially since it is an easily acquired job.

Common books have been used for ciphers for centuries.

The FBI has successfully mapped out organized crime networks through data mining of the most inconsequential and trivial looking information. It is likely that this technique will be successful against other groups as well. You may rightfully question the legality of acquisition methods and raise privacy concerns, but mocking the technique only demonstrates an ignorance of the topic.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (4, Insightful)

vertinox (846076) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831738)

You may rightfully question the legality of acquisition methods and raise privacy concerns, but mocking the technique only demonstrates an ignorance of the topic.

Torture is also great way to find criminals. As one of the Pol Pot interrogators in Cambodia once stated (in that History Channel documentary which I'm paraphrasing), "After a while, I was surprised how much anti-government activity was going on in our nation and reported this to my superior! We were ordered to double the amount of persons we tortured and through their confession we found that the anti-government conspiracy was even larger than we ever imagined!"

The point being is that using these techniques used in a certain way can make criminals out of otherwise innocent people through circumstance or confessions. If you throw an innocent person in jail and then interrogate him for a few hours (non-tortured mind you) and then show him that his pizza boy was a carrier for organized crime and then showed him enough material he might actually start believing it too and sign a confession at a certain point.

Its why many distraught family members often confess to murder of a loved one when they are questioned long enough and accused of the crime.

Yes, of course it can find real criminals, but used in the wrong way you can find a lot more than you expected.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (2, Informative)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831776)

"You may rightfully question the legality of acquisition methods and raise privacy concerns, but mocking the technique only demonstrates an ignorance of the topic."

Torture is also great way to find criminals.


Wrong. Torture generates a lot of bad leads, interrogators are told what they want to hear.

The point being is that using these techniques used in a certain way can make criminals out of otherwise innocent people through circumstance or confessions.

Wrong, data mining generates connections, possible suspects. No criminality is determined by data mining. It is statistically generating a list of people to check out. It is not that different from using statistics when one finds the body of a young woman, go talk to the husband or boyfriend first.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (3, Insightful)

vertinox (846076) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831946)

Wrong. Torture generates a lot of bad leads, interrogators are told what they want to hear.

If a court determines who is a criminal and who is not, then by default a confession of a crime makes the person a criminal regardless of if its true. I think I may have missed a sarcasm tag about torture though. That was the point of the Pol Pot interrogator who was truly shocked on how many criminals he was finding among the populace which just what the interrogator wanted to hear.

No criminality is determined by data mining. It is statistically generating a list of people to check out.

But isn't there a bias towards the investigators that these persons are indeed criminals? If an investigator believes this person is the most likley candidate according to their dataset, regardless of it really was that person who committed the crime, would they not naturally treat the person as the criminal until they find some other information that said otherwise.

Now a more calm and collected investigator would keep all options on the table, but wouldn't a more zealous one haul the person in for questioning and then accuse them of the crime and attempt to gather information with hopes they can make them break?

Human nature cannot be taken out of the equation and information will be abused to acheive their goals. This can never be denied.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (2, Informative)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832446)

"Wrong. Torture generates a lot of bad leads, interrogators are told what they want to hear."

If a court determines who is a criminal and who is not, then by default a confession of a crime makes the person a criminal regardless of if its true.


That is a red herring, coerced confessions are not admissible in court.

But isn't there a bias towards the investigators that these persons are indeed criminals? ...

Not "indeed", *possibly*, that's what a suspect inherently is. Data mining is automation of what used to be done by observation and by hand. Investigators are used to dealing with the coincidences of life, you know the victim, or you were in the area, or your car matches a description, etc.

... If an investigator believes this person is the most likley candidate according to their dataset, regardless of it really was that person who committed the crime, would they not naturally treat the person as the criminal until they find some other information that said otherwise.

They would treat the person as a suspect, as they would the boyfriend of a girl who is found murdered. The "boyfriend" relationship is a piece of data that by itself justifies nothing beyond an interview. Same for the pizza deliveries.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (1)

jamstar7 (694492) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834568)

You may rightfully question the legality of acquisition methods and raise privacy concerns, but mocking the technique only demonstrates an ignorance of the topic.

Torture is also great way to find criminals.

Wrong. Torture generates a lot of bad leads, interrogators are told what they want to hear.

I think the previous poster was refering to confessions given during torture. If the guy zapping your nuts with a cattle prod keeps telling you, "We know you are guilty. We have proof. I'll stop doing this as soon as you confess to your crimes", I'm sure you'll think of something to confess to.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (0, Troll)

mannyaztec (638405) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832366)

Comon' what am I reading here, who are you all 9th graders? 9/11 was an inside job any student frem any good university knows this! It's not who "they" say its whats in this link http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ [zeitgeistmovie.com] followed it and quit writing gibersheee. Get real!!!!

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22831830)

HumbleFBIEmployee:
If I reply to you, are you going to data-mine my information and a FBI tactical unit will raid my home tonight so I can be sent to Guantanamo (without the right to the legal due process) by tomorrow morning?
I mean, you are defending the police state so much that you should be making some money on it...
And I need to buy some sun protection because I am not used to the tropical life...

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (1)

KillerCow (213458) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831902)

The point of data mining is that some connections are not obvious at all, pizza and books are legitimate pieces of data from a scientific/statistical point of view.


Yes. So is religion, race, age, gender, political affiliation, sexual preference, skin color, voting history, if you've ever been to a protest rally, if you've ever voiced opposition to a government initiative, and your medical history.

Persecuting someone on those grounds is abhorrent to a free society. People should be examined based on what we reasonably think that they have done, not based on what we statistically infer that they might do.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22832494)

If you think that data mining is persecution, heaven help you if you ever experience real persecution.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (1)

phillymacmike (445518) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833290)

Data mining isn't persecution. It can easily be a tool of persecution.

In the world we live in, we all have secrets that we may want to keep, even though we may lead blameless, productive lives today. Homosexuality, abortions, pornography, a history of sexual or drug experimentation, being HIV positive, on and on. In the right circumstances, you don't even have to have participated. Downloaded the Anarchist's Cookbook because of curiosity? Gotcha!

There are many ways to pressure good people, if a bad person has access to their private life.

And America's leaders are handing out the tools of persecution like candy at Halloween.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (1)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834142)

Data mining isn't persecution. It can easily be a tool of persecution. ... And America's leaders are handing out the tools of persecution like candy at Halloween.

Bull, we hand over far more data than the government is collecting. Google search, google mail, grocery store discount cards, credit/check cards, myspace, etc. Hell, Google probably has a more comprehensive file on you than homeland security.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22833624)

You may rightfully question the legality of acquisition methods and raise privacy concerns, but mocking the technique only demonstrates an ignorance of the topic.

An ignorance of the topic? How so?

I love people who make such categorical statements and run away.

Where I come from such hit-and-run is pragmatic evidence of ignorance of the topic under discussion AND of a fear of being exposed as being possessed of such ignorance.

But I probably come from an ignorant place, eh?

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834160)

"You may rightfully question the legality of acquisition methods and raise privacy concerns, but mocking the technique only demonstrates an ignorance of the topic."

An ignorance of the topic? How so?


Uh, perhaps you should re-read the post before the portion you quote, it answers your question.

Re:Nothing wrong with data mining pizza delivery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22835404)

"The point of data mining is that some connections are not obvious at all, pizza and books are legitimate pieces of data from a scientific/statistical point of view.

We know that the enemy favors couriers, a routine delivery person like a pizza delivery boy makes a good courier. Especially since it is an easily acquired job.

Common books have been used for ciphers for centuries."
...And therefore everyone ordering pizza at night while reading the Diary of Anne Frank should be arrested and tortured until they confess!

Re:Read: data mining (4, Insightful)

vertinox (846076) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831684)

they may not even know it themselves, but that's just because the data mining is so good

Thats the problem with crimes of theory rather than actual crimes that took place. If you documented every single action of any citizen, you could eventually cherry pick enough activities that are statistically related to being a terrorist and then haul the person in front of a court and say "This person was planning on committing a terrorist act! Our database shows the following activities that give a 95% probability of a plan to commit terrorist related activities."

Since they aren't accusing you of an actual crime that you carried out, you can only dispute whether or not you actually did the things in the list. Since you cannot say they you didn't do those things in the list, then you must be a terrorist according to their logic unless you somehow prove that those actives are not related to terrorism.

That is a harder to defend against since the crime in question was whether or not you were going to do something and not if you actually did it. Sadly, you cannot have someone crack open your brain and discern what you were really thinking for the past year and even if you take a polygraph the cards are stacked against you due to interrogation techniques.

Eventually, if such a scenario did occur, there will be a chilling effect and many people will be guessing what those activities are... Attending anti-war rallies... Writing anti-government blog posts... Or generally belonging to the wrong political party and then simply stop doing them out of fear of showing up as a probable terrorist.

if such a scenario did occur? (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833118)

Don't you mean WHEN it does occur? We are going down a path well traveled throughout history, its just now the government has technology behind it to tip the balance and perhaps prevent the next stage in the process ( revolution ).

Diary of Anne Frank (3, Interesting)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831704)

Oh geez can you imagine if the Internet had been around when Anne Frank was alive? That diary would have been a lot shorter but at least it would been online and she could have liveblogged the whole Holocaust to the rest of the world:

6 June 1944
I see the world gradually being turned into a wasteland. I hear the ever approaching thunder which will destroy us too. I feel the suffering of millions of people and yet, if I look up into the heavens, I somehow feel that all this will come right again, that also this savagery will stop, that there will be peace and tranquillity in the world once again.
Until that time, I must hold onto my ideals. Perhaps the day will come when I'll still be able to realise them.
Comments(468) Trackback(11)

July 1, 1944
If I'm watched to that extent, I start by getting snappy, then unhappy and finally I twist my heart round again, so that the bad is on the outside and the good is on the inside, and keep on trying to find a way of becoming what I so would like to be, and what I could be, if, there weren't any other people living in the world.
Comments(594) Trackback(9)

NOTE: THIS BLOG HAS BEEN ARCHIVED OR SUSPENDED FOR A VIOLATION OF OUR TERMS OF SERVICE

Re:Diary of Anne Frank (1)

owlnation (858981) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832074)

It is a very sobering thought. There is no doubt that a present (or very near future) day Anne Frank will get the opportunity to do just that in either the UK or the US.

It's coming. These Fusion centers are just one more step. It's already too late to stop the horrific future we are headed straight for. Nobody's fighting back, nobody is doing anything but shrugging their shoulders and saying "oh look, more fascism". We are resigned to the fact that is is surely coming.

In the US elections this isn't even a topic of discussion. It's not a policy issue, it's not a manifesto issue. In the UK there are not elections for some time, but the UK is already much further on the path to totalitarianism, so who knows if there will even be any more elections there.

Re:Diary of Anne Frank (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832100)

"Oh geez can you imagine if the Internet had been around when Anne Frank was alive? "

Amateur radio fulfilled clandestine commo functions when Anne was alive. Monitoring consisted of crews waiting to DX your transmitter if you went "online". "Liveblogging" back then was rather hazardous...

1984 Centers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22831456)

No reason to impugn a nuclear reaction by their name. 1984 Centers is a more apt title.

finally (5, Funny)

nguy (1207026) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831468)

Fusion in our lifetime!

Re:finally (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831526)

It is a government agency with an already bloated setup. just how effective do you think it will really be?

People are worried about big brother scenarios. If this was the UK maybe, but no this is the land of pork barrel projects galore. As such I am not worried. they will spend billions and achieve a semi working prototype that needs to be rebooted every 6 hours.

Re:finally (1)

Stanislav_J (947290) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832662)

People are worried about big brother scenarios. If this was the UK maybe, but no this is the land of pork barrel projects galore. As such I am not worried. they will spend billions and achieve a semi working prototype that needs to be rebooted every 6 hours.

Yeah, it might work about as well as that piecemeal fence will work keeping out illegals....

I'm torn whether the general inefficiency and ineptitude of our federal government is a good or a bad thing in this case. On one hand, it could lead to the whole system never coming to completion or never working quite right in the first place. OTOH, using a half-assed system manned by incompetents could lead to a whole lotta "false positives" and a lot of ruined innocent lives. It's pretty bad when you expect your government to screw up royally, and are reduced to merely hoping they screw up in such a manner as to do the least possible damage.

Re:finally (1)

pushing-robot (1037830) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833538)

No. It is the bad kind of fusion.

The fusion is out of control (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831482)

We've been waiting for 50-odd years for controlled fusion to solve the energy crisis.

Oh wait, wrong article.

No link to wired article? (4, Informative)

grassy_knoll (412409) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831494)

Ok, so it's standard practice not to read TFA, so not including a link to the wired article in the summary would seem to save time.

However, if you'd like to read the article, I think this is it:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/03/feds-tout-new-d.html [wired.com]

Re:No link to wired article? (2, Interesting)

swright (202401) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831636)

hmm, I find this as scary as the next guy - but isn't there a part of every geek that finds its fascinating?

Its like the holy grail of data analysis; transcending the bording bits of storage and indexing to the complex fun bits of trying to organise data and explore interfaces for making easy for humans to tag related 'facts' and associate them with others.

Not a fan of big brother - but I've love to be writing the tech that does it!!!

Re:No link to wired article? (1)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832692)

hmm, I find this as scary as the next guy - but isn't there a part of every geek that finds its fascinating?
I'm probably not geeky enough, but no, I don't find it particularly fascinating (I think my disgust with our rush to a construct a police state is overcoming my geekery). I'm sure there will be plenty of well-intentioned, fascinated geeks willing to work on it though.

Re:No link to wired article? (1)

Kandenshi (832555) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832696)

Not a fan of big brother - but I've love to be writing the tech that does it!!!
So that you could write a backdoor into the program, and later be able to find out anything you want about anyone? >=)

Of course, writing a backdoor into the NSA's fusion software would probably be the sort of thing that'd get you put on A List of Bad People... But they'd have to catch you first. Given the myriad of stories we see on slashdot about government incomptence with all things technological, I don't think it's beyond imagination that you could slip a bit of code past them. Hell, they'd be lucky to find it amongst the many bugs that would be wrote into the code (by people other than you).

Why read the article when we have the ACLU? (0, Troll)

unassimilatible (225662) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831656)

The fair-and-balanced ACLU can tell us what to think about Big Brother. Wait, what?

Disagree with a liberal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22832394)

Get modded "troll." So fucking typical. The left does not believe in fairness or dissent, just getting their way, by any means necessary. Keep abusing the system, liberal fuckwads. - Unass.

how to catalog all this information? (1, Interesting)

suck_burners_rice (1258684) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831550)

The real issue at hand is not where the information is gathered, but how a tremendous amount of information can be organized and accessed in a way that actually helps avoid future terrorist attacks. As the police chief said, seemingly innocuous information might be connected to a threat, but then again, it might just be innocuous information. Burying ourselves in mountains of information, a majority of it innocuous, might actually work against us. There must be a way to catalog information so that connections can be made between seemingly separate items to form an accurate picture of what the terrorists are planning.

Re:how to catalog all this information? (1)

conlaw (983784) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833524)

Burying ourselves in mountains of information, a majority of it innocuous, might actually work against us.

It all depends on who you include in "us." If "us" is all of the people who might like to maintain our privacy just because it's not really the government's business what time we order pizza or what books we're reading today, having this overload of information might be helpful since the fusion centers could be so busy trying to organize it all that they'd never be able to interfere with our legal activities. On the other hand, if "us" is the general populace who would like to prevent terrorism, the masses of information would probably keep the centers from doing anything meaningful to prevent the mayhem. Remember that the various government offices had enough information to prevent 9/11, they just didn't have it correlated and/or they failed to believe it.

Scope Creep (5, Informative)

iknownuttin (1099999) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831554)

FTFA [wired.com] :Jane Harman (D-California), a powerful force in intelligence matters and funding, pooh-poohed the ACLU's concerns, and said she supported both fusion centers, and civil liberties.

"I was frustrated when I met with the [ACLU] report authors and they could not point to a single instance of a fusion center violating someone's civil rights or liberties," Harman said. "In fact, state and local laws and protections in place at many fusion centers are more rigorous than their federal counterparts."

Ahem: California's Anti-Terrorism Information Center admitted to spying on anti-war groups in 2003. And Denver's police department built their own secret spy files on Quakers and 200 other organizations.

It looks like there's already some scope creep. Does anyone else hear a voice in their head saying, "Slippery slope! What's happening to America!"

Mental note: Jane Harman D-CA. Must tell CA relatives about this when her seat is up for reelection.

Re:Scope Creep (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831690)

"I was frustrated when I met with the [ACLU] report authors and they could not point to a single instance of a fusion center violating someone's civil rights or liberties," Harman said."

If the public doesn't know about it, it didn't happen.
/America does not torture
//Even if we have to redefine torture

Re:Scope Creep (1)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831752)

"I met with the [ACLU] report authors and they could not point to a single instance of a fusion center violating someone's civil rights or liberties..."
And that's from a *Democrat*? In California??!1! That sounds like something I'd expect from Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly or Shawn Hannity, followed up by some, "If you have nothing to hide..." goodness.

Re:Scope Creep (1)

Creedo (548980) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832666)

Welcome to the USA, where the right and left wing agree on only one thing: the need to strip the American public of freedom and privacy. The only thing that differs is what excuse they use.

Re:Scope Creep (1)

sonamchauhan (587356) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833486)

Yes, tell them to vote for Jane... that someone sensible is in power.

Why didn't you quote the ACLU response -- its very telling:

Tim Sparapani, the ACLU's top legislative lawyer in D.C., bristled at Harman's remakrs. "Our prognosticating track record in identifying programs ripe for abuse of privacy and civil liberties is pretty solid," Sparapani wrote in an e-mail that listed several other programs ...

Re:Scope Creep (1)

jamstar7 (694492) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834614)

"I was frustrated when I met with the [ACLU] report authors and they could not point to a single instance of a fusion center violating someone's civil rights or liberties," Harman said. "In fact, state and local laws and protections in place at many fusion centers are more rigorous than their federal counterparts."

Of course there's been no 'single instance of a fusion center violating someone's civil rights or liberties' because they're not named 'fusion centers' yet. If there are no Siberian tigers living in Central Park, why are you surprised by the lack of Siberian tiger attacks there?

Smothered Hope... (3, Insightful)

headkase (533448) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831562)

When I was young the police used to watch over the people, now they're watching the people.

Re:Smothered Hope... (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832060)

"When I was young the police used to watch over the people, now they're watching the people."

No one living is that old.

Re:Smothered Hope... (2, Insightful)

nbauman (624611) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832156)

I don't know how old you are, but when I was young the police used to watch the people. My friend's father was sent to jail because of his Communist connections. My favorite physics teacher was blacklisted and had to leave the country because he couldn't teach here (he finally returned to teach my freshman physics course in 1959). They kicked the Communists out of the labor unions -- and the Communists (for all their faults) pushed the unions to drive a much better deal for the worker than they have today. Under J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI tapped Martin Luther King's phone and spied on him -- sort of like the way they spied on Eliot Spitzer today. So it's not much different today.

Re:Smothered Hope... (1)

headkase (533448) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833160)

I was born in 1973 so I missed the McCarthy era. It may have just been me being young but I used to perceive that we had more liberties and rights pre-Bush.

Re:Smothered Hope... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22832916)

A. It's from Worlock, not Smothered Hope
B. It's a Charles Manson quote

Re:Smothered Hope... (1)

headkase (533448) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833184)

Yup from Worlock I went and listened to it after I posted but I didn't know it came from Manson! Gonna have to google that a bit to get some context!

Power expands to fill all available space (3, Interesting)

jonaskoelker (922170) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831566)

Wired has an <a>article</a>
Not fixed. The again, we don't read articles around here ;)

on the national fusion centers in the US, which were created to aid intelligence-sharing in the fight against terrorism
How much terrorism has happened recently? Hasn't enough resources been put into fighting it?

but are increasingly being used to look at other sorts of crimes.
Hmm... is this perhaps part of a "we're tough on crime" bullet to put on the election checklist? Or possibly a way to hand more power to the law enforcement?

Just some things to ponder...

Are we all under suspicion? (1)

hemp (36945) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831574)

Its almost like we are all under suspicion of being criminals.

Well, at least Manhattan hasn't been been turned into a maximum security prison...yet.

Quakers are terrorists now?!? (1)

iknownuttin (1099999) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831612)

FTFA: And Denver's police department built their own secret spy files on Quakers and 200 other organizations.

Its almost like we are all under suspicion of being criminals.

Quakers! Have I missed some news item of Quakers becoming militant? What next, are the cops going to watch the Salvation Army now?!? Or members of the KISS Army?!?

Please start tracking me .... (2, Interesting)

Russ Nelson (33911) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831580)

Please start tracking me ... I am a firm believer in the non-violent overthrow of the United States Government. Politicans need to be changed like diapers, and often for the same reason.

Abandon all hope ye who..... (0, Troll)

sgt_doom (655561) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832658)

Your premise or assumption, Good Citizen Russ+Nelson, is that the American election process still functions. Point of order:

In the 2000 election, 175,000 uncounted ballots paved the way for the Bush coup.

In the 2004 election, there was an 8 million vote variance: the exit polls indicated Kerry led Bush by 5 million votes, while Bush supposedly won by 3 million votes.

With the concentration of the counting of over 100 million votes by four, I repeat, four voting machines companies (Hart InterCivic, ES&S, Sequoia, Premier Election Systems) all run by neocons and financed via the Pentagon, whomever wins the next election will be the pre-selected winner.....

Re:Abandon all hope ye who..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22835172)

And if Gore had won his home state of TN....

WARNING: Contains references to BOGEY MAN (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22831588)

Terrorism Terrorism Terrorism.

I thought most people kept up with the Jones. The rest of the real world doesn't give a fuck about America and their bogey man lies about terrorism. They cried wolf too many times. When I hear this rhetoric I switch off.

Re:WARNING: Contains references to BOGEY MAN (1)

mannyaztec (638405) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832436)

Good sounds like you've seen the following http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ [zeitgeistmovie.com] Inside job all the way!

Predicting the future... (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831608)

... usually end causing it. Wonder in which (or in how many) sci-fi stories about oppresive governments they got that idea, but sound a lot like taken from there.

all in the name of '9-11' (2, Insightful)

jt418-93 (450715) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831622)

9-11 was a fluke. yet it has been used to systematically rape the bill of rights, that 'goddamn piece of paper' as our beloved leader calls it.

until americans wake up, this country is going to hell. we are on a path that will make the ussr & east germany look like pussies. don't forget, torture is an american value now too. can't just use it on the really bad guys, or that would be discriminatory. gotta use it on everyone equally, because that's the new american way.

have a great day

Re:all in the name of '9-11' (3, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832270)

that 'goddamn piece of paper' as our beloved leader calls it.
That "quote" keeps getting brought up, probably because it jives with your perceptions of President Bush.

AFAIK he never said that.
Here's what I had to say about it in Oct of 2006 [slashdot.org]
Here's what factcheck.org has to say about it [factcheck.org]

The guy writing capitolhillblue has a history of bullshit, retracted the story, then put it back online even though no one else could substantiate his story and every other blogger on the internet apologized for repeating it.

Stop repeating one man's lie.

Re:all in the name of '9-11' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834122)

He may not have said it, but the current administration sure as hell acts that way.

MOD PARENT UP (1)

thorndt (814642) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834732)

MOD PARENT UP. I don't like Bush either--I'm glad he's going to be replaced soon. Don't make up crap about him and his administration, though: that just makes people stop listening to even legitimate things you say when they find out about the bull...

Re:all in the name of '9-11' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22832722)

"9-11" was a murderous act committed by "Islamic Fascists" (to quote GWB) , without IMHO [direct] provocation, that distressed and deprived many thousands of American, British and other country's citizens of the right to life, liberty, freedom, family or justice. Let's be clear about this. The rest we can debate.

And that is the problem (2, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831638)

The NSA had been listening in our calls for decades. My understanding is that it was never used on internal threats. With the patriot act combined with W's/telecom illegal spying, that changed everything. In particular, most ppl do not remember, but about 2 weeks after patriot act was passed, the DOJ announced that they had busted a large gang that hailed from Venezuela and was simply passing drugs all over. Ok, that sounds like a good thing. But within another month after that, it was discovered that there was spying on a dem state senators in mass. The simple fact is, that DOJ and the white house can not be trusted. Even if Obama gets it, I would not want him to have this. Why? Because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. W. and his henchman have been illegal throughout this admin. I expected that. But I believe that if we continue with this power, even the most honest of politicians will be corrupted.

I have said it before, and I will say it here again. Take us back to where the NSA was quietly listening in, but only shared info when it pertained to an outside threat. For starters, all of their listening is done via computers. The DOJ should go back to requiring warrants, and the DOD should be bared from listening in within the USA (which, patriot act and several of W's orders gave permission to do). Then have the NSA back to being staffed ONLY by professionals and not the politicians that W installed. IOW, it is time that we return to a professional approach to intel, rather than the bunch of NAZI thugs that we have allowed to set up camp due to so many ppl being afraid.

Wrong impression (2, Informative)

glitch23 (557124) | more than 6 years ago | (#22831942)

Despite what the article states about the focus of these fusion centers on anti-terrorism, they do a lot of things which focus on domestic crimes. This can be anything from serial killers, drug trafficking, to serial robberies. This data is being aggregated at the fusion centers and the OneDOJ [washingtonpost.com] (among others) program is going to aggregate it again to make better sense of it so that inter-state crimes can be better investigated and solved by sharing the information. These fusion centers receive a lot of flak when viewed strictly from the perspective of anti-terrorism because they are collecting data that isn't necessarily connected to terrorist acts. That data is for other criminal activity. The data is collected based on pre-existing police reports, investigations, etc. so the gov't isn't doing anything extraordinary here besides tearing down walls between federal, state, local, and tribal agencies in order to better solve past crimes and maybe, hopefully, prevent further ones by performing statistical analysis on the criminal data.

For example, by seeing that a new business opening up is located in the same part of a city as a string of new criminal activity the local police department can have more patrols out to make sure the criminals realize they are being watched. Obviously that is at the local level but this type of data mining on *existing data* helps the feds too.

Stasi Police (3, Informative)

EEPROMS (889169) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832312)

The East Germans had the exact same thing called the Stasi Secret Police [wikipedia.org] . Your friends and neighbours even your relatives would pass on details about you to your local representative in the name of crime and social harmony. It worked great until those dam Americans stuffed it all up.........eh wait a minute.

May I recommend... (2, Interesting)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833322)

...the 2006 film The Lives of Others [rottentomatoes.com] , which presents Germany's more recent past in a way that seems a lot more like a potential American future than the Godwinian parallels most people seem to draw.

While I can't comment on the accuracy of the film's portrayal of the GDR in 1985 (it looked convincing, but I wasn't there), I can say its portrayal of a subtle, businesslike surveillance state, quite unlike the obviously super-evil third reich half a century earlier, seemed a lot more efficient in eliminating dissent.

Dramatic disappearances in the night? Dissidents gunned down in the streets? No, if you spoke out against the GDR (again, at least as envisioned in the film), you didn't have to fear for your life. You just found your career a little "harder" to continue in. You found life gradually less satisfying... Shipped off to a torture chamber with all manner of horrific devices? No, just sent to a little room. To talk. For a long time. Until you cooperated.

Re:Stasi Police (1)

Marcika (1003625) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833368)

Those "dam Americans" had precious little to do with it. It was the East German citizens themselves [wikipedia.org] who hastened the Stasi's demise. And it will have to be the US citizens who speak up against *their* Big Brother.

Bill Hicks Was A Saint (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22832348)

Watch everything you can featuring Bill Hicks.

If you know anything about various government's using radiation to track or poison those who protest or speak out against them, you will soon start to believe, as many do, that Bill Hicks' cancer was not from tobacco, it was from a rogue organization who didn't want his word to be spread.

Bill Hicks was a saint, sent to us as so many are, and taken from us by the dark powers.

Play his works and spread his message! "SQUEEGE YOUR THIRD FUCKING EYE!" Hallucinogens are schedule I for a reason, not because they're dangerous to us, but because they are dangerous to those in power! Just like Salvia Divinorum will soon be schedule I because it changes your perception!

Read Food of The Gods by Terence Mckenna! Use Tor + Privoxy + Truecrypt + GPG, read about Writeprint and Tempest!

It's too late (3, Insightful)

JamesRose (1062530) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832378)

See the pattern yet. You stood there and let the Bush regime murder and torture people. What happened when they announced it? Nothing, becuase they just said "Well, you knew it was happening, if you really objected you should have stopped it" and so they didn't get away with it, they just changed the rules to allow it. If you let these people normalise it in the culture you're too late.

In 5 years when this information is used to imprison people they'll stand there and say "Well you knew it was happening and you didn't stop it". One of the things I love about America is that they're so convinced they don't put up with any shit that when shit happens they either claim they want it to happen or ignore it. Stop waiting for them to announce that they're profiling you to object, you know it's happening, act now, FORCE CHANGE.

I honestly don't care though, why would I care about a country who has allowed a million innocent iraqis die, torture people, attempt to bully the rest of the world, and then have people like Ann Coulter on their television channels saying that all camel jockies should be killed becuase they killed 3 thousand americans in Iraq.

You gave up the rights of others to live, no one should ever do that.

Re:It's too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22832804)

Stop waiting for them to announce that they're profiling you to object, you know it's happening, act now, FORCE CHANGE.

I honestly don't care though, why would I care about a country who has allowed a million innocent iraqis die, torture people, attempt to bully the rest of the world, and then have people like Ann Coulter on their television channels saying that all camel jockies should be killed becuase they killed 3 thousand americans in Iraq.

You gave up the rights of others to live, no one should ever do that.
I knew the psychology of the country changed on 9/11, the day it happened. To hear otherwise normal people at my job, where I was when it happened, saying things like "We should kill every Arab" is quite a shock, when you've still got your head on straight. The seething desire for revenge was apparent all around me. I thought it would last maybe 6 months. Instead it has lasted over 6 years. 6 years of revenge at any cost. 6 years of false security at the expense of liberty.

The truth is that it will be impossible to go back to what I remember it was like before 9/11. I can go back. A good portion of my fellow Americans can't. They simply don't remember. They've gotten used to the way things are. And now its just babysteps on a path that has no positive outcome. The only way to change it is very messy. Those people will be standing in the way. Even messier. Nevertheless, I'll do what needs to be done when the time comes.

Re:It's too late (2, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833918)

Nothing changed on 9/11. Those crazy fascists you work with were always crazy fascists. You just noticed.

So that is what they are. (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832930)

We have one of those in our local government building. Down in the basement, behind an unmarked locked door with one way glass. They also don't participate in any of the state IT functions and is basically a standalone entity with its budget in the 'grey'.

Saw the nice pretty lit up logo on the internal wall one day someone was exiting the area. Was thinking 'that nice, wonder how much that cost when no one gets to even see it'.

(Posting anonymously for obvious reasons )

I need the technology (1)

superid (46543) | more than 6 years ago | (#22832986)

Stop telling me it's a conspiracy and tell me how they achieve the magic of the fusion.

I have countless applications that could benefit from this research. I've got old school islands of data in "stovepiped" isolated products. I *might* be able to slap a semantic web layer around them but I really REALLY do not want to reinvent the wheel if my tax dollars paid for a good solution.

Annoying (1)

BountyX (1227176) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833614)

I love how my tax money goes to fund an illegal war and gather private information about me. From this point on, I'm redirecting my income and keeping my earned US income below taxable rates. I refuse to finance this shit. Enough is enough.

We have been raped. THIS IS NOT THE COUNTRY WE SIGNED UP FOR. They are not holding their end of the Social Contract. This is just like the Red Scare 1 and Red Scare 2. Remember Sacco and Vanzetti? Remember Joseph McCarthy and all of his victims in the name of Communism? Terrorism is the new term used to scare citizens into compliance. We are on the fast-track to a police state, influenced by the UK. They say that they are protecting us in the name of 'National Security'. What they don't understand is if we had better foriegn policy everyone wouldn't hate us and we wouldn't "need" all this "national security".

This is just the last straw for me. I'm going to go outside and moon the eye-in-the-sky. I'm going to spam my phones with terrorist keywords like "bomb".

"Those who would trade essential freedom for temporary security deserve neither." (Citizen Ben)

Terror and it's definition (1)

masikh (643240) | more than 6 years ago | (#22833836)

I think it all botlles down to the consent what terrorism really is! The definition of terrorism that is. I think it geographicly differs! Just my two cents:)

Re:Terror and it's definition (3, Informative)

BountyX (1227176) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834048)

In the eyes of the government it seems that Terrorism is anything that is against government interest.

Cardinal Richelieu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22835274)

I'm surprised nobody's quoted this yet:

Cardinal Richelieu once said: "Give me 10 lines written by the most honest man and I will find something in them to hang him for".

AC, for I've written a lot more than ten lines online...
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