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The Wrath of the Apple Tribe

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the blame-it-on-eve dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 870

Narrative Fallacy writes "If you've ever written about Apple products with even a hint of negativity, you'll appreciate Salon's excerpt from Farhad Manjoo's True Enough, about why the Apple tribe is so rabid. 'There are many tribes in the tech world: TiVo lovers, Blackberry addicts, Palm Treo fanatics, and people who exhibit unhealthy affection for their Roomba robotic vacuum cleaners,' writes Manjoo. 'But there is no bigger tribe, and none more zealous, than fans of Apple, who are infamous for their sensitivity to slams, real or imagined, against the beloved company.' Wall Street Journal columnist Walt Mossberg has even coined a name for the phenomenon — the 'Doctrine of Insufficient Adulation.' 'If I see the world as all black and you see the world as all white and some person comes along and says it's partially black and partially white, we both are going to be unhappy,' says psychologist Lee Ross at Stanford University. 'You think there are more facts and better facts on your side than on the other side. The very act of giving them equal weight seems like bias. Like inappropriate evenhandedness.'"

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870 comments

Experience it first hand (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22833992)

Anybody who wants to experience this first hand.. just flame apple on slashdot :) and see your post mod down to hell

Re:Experience it first hand (5, Insightful)

wass (72082) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834168)

The author of the article (yes I actually read it) went as far as comparing the pro/anti Apple crowd to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Yes, he seriously did. And not by briefly alluding to it, but over the course of several paragraphs.

I've heard of some crazy stretches for comparison, but come on, a journalist actually comparing a group of people that have an affinity for a company's products to a deeply-complicated bloody 60+ year old conflict? Talk about going off the deep end.

Re:Experience it first hand (4, Funny)

Artuir (1226648) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834282)

I dunno. The levels of insanity reached in both Apple fanboyism and the Israeli/Palastenian conflict seems equivalent sometimes. Hey, you hear that? That's the sound of my karma level going through the floor!

Re:Experience it first hand (4, Insightful)

AaronLawrence (600990) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834292)

He didn't compare the situations, but he compared people's pyschology, and the fact is we all like to have a tribe to rally around and see others as the enemy. A bit of maturity is hopefully learning when you're doing that and try to avoid it.

Wow, I was marked Troll! (4, Funny)

wass (72082) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834348)

Apparently it's not just Apple Fanboys that can't handle criticism!

Re:Experience it first hand (5, Insightful)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834220)

Anybody who wants to experience this first hand.. just flame apple on slashdot :) and see your post mod down to hell

Been there, done that. Points drops almost as fast as when you suggest Linux may not represent perfection. ;-)

ratio (1, Insightful)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834000)

There is at least ten mac hater for every fanboy, each posting ten whining comment for every adulation of apple.

Re:ratio (2, Funny)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834034)

Don't forget the whining fanboi apple adulations. "Mac OS X is perfect, but I'm going to switch to Windows because of the translucent menu bar!!"

Re:ratio (5, Funny)

BountyX (1227176) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834090)

I was assualted by a fanboi when I told him my Tapwave was cooler than his iPhone. Luckliy, I had a stylus as a weapon, while all he had was his finger. He didn't want to drop his iPhone either becuase it didn't have applecare.

Re:ratio (4, Interesting)

frdmfghtr (603968) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834192)

Don't forget the whining fanboi apple adulations. "Mac OS X is perfect, but I'm going to switch to Windows because of the translucent menu bar!!"
You exaggerate, but not by much. I've also heard nitpicks about the top menu bar having (gasp!) square corners on top instead of rounded corners. Oh for the love of all that is good in this world, are you going to let THAT bother you?

Re:ratio (4, Funny)

tsa (15680) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834312)

Oh yes. And don't get me started on the reflections in the new 3D Dock. They're all wrong.

Re:ratio (2, Informative)

Slur (61510) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834286)

Whoever would say such a thing hasn't yet learned the joy of preference options! Check out the nifty new option at the bottom of the Desktop preference pane (in 10.5.2 anyhow!).

Re:ratio (5, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834066)

There is at least ten mac hater[s] (sic) for every fanboy, each posting ten whining comment[s] for every adulation of apple.

Are you sure you've read the summary correctly AND you know what board you're posting on? You seem to be confusing Microsoft and Apple. One is bad, the other is God.

Hope this helps. Oh, and you might want to cut back on the schnapps.

Sorry, still trying (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834004)

to catchup with the Amiga.

Re:Sorry, still trying (4, Funny)

Lord Apathy (584315) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834294)

Apple don't have nothing on them rabid amiga hippies. I still get hate mail from them crazy mother fuckers.

yeah ... they are like that (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834010)

prvi post

Ubuntu on HP beats Apple any day (0, Offtopic)

colinmcnamara (1152427) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834018)

I run Ubuntu 7.10 on a dual core HP laptop. My hardware is effectively a clone of the Mac Book Pro at 1/3 of the price. I however have complete control over my operating system, and get to use Compiz for all the fancy visual effects. While I respect the fact that Mac users are running BSD, I feel for most users it is just jewellery with a power button.

Re:Ubuntu on HP beats Apple any day (1)

binford2k (142561) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834224)

I run Ubuntu 7.10 on a dual core HP laptop. My hardware is effectively a clone of the Mac Book Pro at 1/3 of the price.

No. It's not.

Re:Ubuntu on HP beats Apple any day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834316)

Care to elaborate?

I blame it on Apple... (5, Insightful)

wanderingknight (1103573) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834020)

..and their ad campaigns.

Seriously, market a product as "stylish", "hip" and "different", and you'll raise a troupe of people to whom presenting themselves as different is pretty much their only end. I personally find it one of the most disgusting facets of consumerist capitalism.

Re:I blame it on Apple... (5, Funny)

plover (150551) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834110)

I personally find it one of the most disgusting facets of consumerist capitalism.

Ooo, someone forgot to take their "Think Different" pills this morning, didn't they?

Re:I blame it on Apple... (4, Funny)

Maestro485 (1166937) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834148)

It pisses me off that using Apple products makes you "different". I'm way more different than those preppy jerks. I have a tattoo of a Chinese symbol on my wrist that means 'peace' in English. I have the tips of my semi-dirty long hair dyed green. I even have a nose ring *and* a lip ring (earrings are a given in my non-conformist world). Seriously those Apple fans need to start coming up with commercials with lame yet catchy songs that accompany a minimalist but stylish product line.

Re:I blame it on Apple... (1)

wanderingknight (1103573) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834176)

Whoa, what a way of making unjustified assumptions there :)

In some ways, you're right, no one can escape consumerism, which is the main premise of the capitalist world we're living today. I can't say I'm not part of the whole game we call "the system"... but that doesn't justify the Apple fanboys' reactions, either.

Re:I blame it on Apple... (4, Funny)

Joe Tie. (567096) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834194)

Pfft. I wear a long sleeve shirt under a short sleeve shirt under a long sleeve shirt.

Re:I blame it on Apple... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834250)

I'm way more different than those preppy jerks. I have a tattoo of a Chinese symbol on my wrist that means 'peace' in English. I have the tips of my semi-dirty long hair dyed green. I even have a nose ring *and* a lip ring (earrings are a given in my non-conformist world).
In my experience, people who feel the need to go out of their way to look different usually aren't.

Real freaks don't need to advertise it.

Re:I blame it on Apple... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834274)

It pisses me off that using Apple products makes you "different".
(Rest snipped)

So you're just the fucking same as every other idiot who thought it'd be unique to dye their hair some outrageous colour and get a shitty 'chinese' symbol tattooed on you even though the only thing you have to go on as to its meaning was the drunk with the ink who put it there telling you it was so. You're so non-conformist that you fit right the fuck in with every other "non-conformist".

You'd be the sort of person who chose to use Linux because you're not a mindless slave of the corporate empire, right?

Using an Apple computer doesn't make people any different? Sure it does. Someone actually woke up and made a choice that they weren't going to go out and buy a PC that came with Billware and all of the associated problems. They have different software, a different way of doing things and different problems. I think the fact that they even made a choice says a lot about them rather than everyone else who just buys a PC and gets windows and assumes that's the way it is without thinking about it.

I'm happy with my mac. Not really because it's different, but because it's better. It's quality hardware and the OS is a BSD variant so it's good for doing real work on as well as running the eye candy that is Aqua. To top it all off at least I know that OSX will support all the hardware in the machine (bluetooth, wifi, ethernet, etc) out of the box. I take a gamble with every PC-based piece of crap I buy to run Linux/BSD on.

And no, I'm not an Apple fanboi. In fact I find it distressing that the mentality on Apple is lacking developers and those who are here write software that looks good primarily and functions as a secondary property. I find it distressing that the mentality over here is "Apple did it, why should we reinvent the wheel". There is very little choice when you get to Apple world as to what software you're going to use. At least on Windows and Linux there's a stack of choices for every little app.

Re:I blame it on Apple... (3, Insightful)

tiny-e (940381) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834310)

Don't take this the wrong way because I do not intend this as a serious flame... but having tattoos, green hair, and looking like you fell face-first into a tackle-box doesn't make you different - it makes you *exactly the same* as everyone else who is trying to be different -just like you.

Donating your time, or the $300 bucks you were about to spend on your next ultra-meaningful tattoo to a local charity would be pretty different. Stopping to pick up litter on the street is pretty different, and so on.

Re:I blame it on Apple... (0, Troll)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834180)

yeah, when most of your customers are douchebags and/or starbucks customers that are shallow and extremely concerned about their image, they tend to bitch about anything negative you say about them or anything they have. Unfortunately, they fell for Apple's douchebag targetting ads with their hippie music and, being douchebags, they don't want to admit that the quality of the product is in fact horrendous. What we need is for people like me that hate Apple to because just as zealous. If all their customers really are concerned about image, and everyone hates them, bye bye Apple :P

How to pretend to be a tech journalist (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834032)

Step 1: Troll Apple users

Step 2: Write an article about all the hate mail you get

Step 3: Ad revenue

Goto Step 1

Dvorak has done this so many times he should be selling his technique on an infomercial at this point.

Re:How to pretend to be a tech journalist (1)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834266)

Step 4: ...

Step 5: PROFIT!!!

Re:How to pretend to be a tech journalist (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834378)

How did you get three steps out of 'pretend to be a tech journalist'? That kind of math won't make sense to anyone, not even a mac fanboi!

Hmm (1)

kamatsu (969795) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834038)

I wonder why this seems to be localized to the tech industry?

Does slashdot offer any insight?

(hopefully first post yay)

Re:Hmm (1)

49152 (690909) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834080)

Why ask slashdot? You could read the article ;-)

It gives non tech examples to research that shows this is actually a common psychological trait in humans when they feel strongly about any subject.

It's a religion (5, Interesting)

Rog7 (182880) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834040)

I do have an unhealthy obsession with my Roomba, but it doesn't come close to the religious outrage that descends on my blog whenever / if-ever I say anything that doesn't approach worship of Apple.

Honestly, it's the biggest reason I no longer buy products from Apple. The astonishing thing is how many years this keeps going on. I had a friend who started hiding his Newton for fear of the cultists that would swarm him and go on about how great it was while he was just trying to look up an address or whatever.

The only sane Apple-nut I ever met was Douglas Adams, but then he was at least reasonable enough to acknowledge other OSes, although you wouldn't believe it from the Apple fans who quote him endlessly.

Why are so many of their consumers complete nutcases?

Re:It's a religion (1)

T-Bone-T (1048702) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834114)

Did you see the story on Apple pushing Safari with their update program? Some of those people ought to be politicians because they could really spin that story into something positive. I'd never seen the RDF so strong.

Re:It's a religion (5, Informative)

plover (150551) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834172)

I'm pretty good friends with an Apple salesman. He loves their products and believes in the company. Both of those are prerequisites to being a successful salesman regardless of the products being sold, but Apple seems to make it easier than just about any other company. It's an amazing cult.

I personally have purchased only one Apple product -- I recently bought my wife an iPod touch. While I absolutely love the cool user interface experience, the consumer lock down is much worse than I imagined it would be (and I was expecting bad.) Overall I can only rate the thing "half-way above shit." I'll never buy anything else from them and I'm not going to recommend them to other people unless that changes drastically.

Re:It's a religion (2, Funny)

tsa (15680) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834272)

You sir, can kiss your Karma goodbye ;) And be careful: those Apple fans know where your house lives.

Roomba wth? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834226)

I had to google "roomba" to find out that it's not a silly name for your shlong. For everyone else - it's the marketing name for one of those self-guided vacuum cleaners.

Re:Roomba wth? (1)

Rog7 (182880) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834276)

Scroll up, you didn't read the original post, it clearly mentions "Roomba robotic vacuum cleaners". You could have saved yourself some time. =P

inappropriate even handedness (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834044)

Sometimes evenhandedness is inappropriate. It elevates the wrong position to the same level as the right position. For instance, intelligent design.

Re:inappropriate even handedness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834134)

Or for instance, Massachusetts' decision to accept OOXML in addition to ODF.

Re:inappropriate even handedness (4, Insightful)

wanderingknight (1103573) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834156)

For instance, intelligent design.
That's not a fair comparison. Intelligent design cannot _ever_ hope to partake in a scientific discussion, because there's no science behind it, and that's _it_. No point in debating something that's completely wrong in any way you look at it. Different opinions on different products, however, are a different issue altogether.

Re:inappropriate even handedness (2, Insightful)

wass (72082) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834212)

No, the original poster has a perfectly valid point which you just reinforced.

By the anti-evolution lobby making such a big deal about evolution and the need to include alternate theories, they've somehow made themselves a presence that otherwise would never have existed in the educational system. Everybody around the country now knows of the concept of Intelligent Design, but 10 years ago, nobody really thought about it at all.

They've made such a big deal out of it, including high-profile activism, that some people feel compelled to at least acknowledge them when referring to evolution. An acknowledgement that wouldn't have been there 10 years ago.

And this is the perfectly valid reason why some situations are ridiculous for providing an even-handedness where it is not justified. In this case, it's exactly due to your assertion that there is no science behind it.

Maybe the rabid fanboys sleep (0, Troll)

John Jamieson (890438) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834050)

You must be hoping that all the fanboys are asleep, or you are looking to stir up the biggest hornets nest ever.

Lets see, find the biggest least rational fan base you can, then point it out. This should be fun to watch!

(yes, there are lots of irrational fan camps, apple just has the biggest because almost no one loves MS anymore)

Re:Maybe the rabid fanboys sleep (1)

Dr. Eggman (932300) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834324)

apple just has the biggest because almost no one loves MS anymore
I dunno, I've lived through a couple generations of console wars (16-bit vet myself, though I've moved on to the PC's regiment, but I digress.) I guess Apple's the biggest when you split up the console fan campus up by their infighting lines, but just try arguing console vs. PC gaming and you will see sparks fly like the Forth of July! Apple's the biggest, but gamer camps are at least a full magnitude more vicious, zealous, and sensitive.

Re:Maybe the rabid fanboys sleep (1)

AaronLawrence (600990) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834326)

actually I think there are plenty of people who still swim happily in the Microsoft sea of developer tools, conferences, marketing and blogs.

But slashdot is so famously anti Microsoft (on balance) that most of them don't post here, wouldn't think of bothering with what they see as a little cesspool if irrational hatred. In other words, Slashdot has a self-selecting audience.

At Least I'll be Vaccinated (5, Funny)

snl2587 (1177409) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834060)

about why the Apple tribe is so rabid

You mean it's not rabies? Oh...I guess I didn't need those shots after the last time I called the MacBook "useless" and one of them bit me...

Feel The Love (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834074)

I love my Mac so much I try to project a human characteristic to this inanimate object by putting pictures of naked women on the screen poised in positions that invite deep bonding between man and machine.

Re:Feel The Love (1)

wass (72082) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834400)

Well then you'll be all over (literally) whatever Apple has planned with their new patent filing [freepatentsonline.com] regarding 3D display systems.

I dunno.. (2, Funny)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834082)

I think the Linux/FOSS fanboys are trying to wrestle that crown from the Apple fanboys.

Re:I dunno.. (4, Interesting)

Joe Tie. (567096) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834236)

I think the apple fanboys easily win for the moment. I'm a long time linux user, and often found the zelotry a bit embarrassing. But looking at the comments on digg when apple comes up actually make me feel a bit uneasy in general. It actually can be borderline scary seeing the amount of nerd rage apple stories can unleash there.

Re:I dunno.. (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834328)

are you kidding me? i LOVE teh nerd rage.

seeing a story on digg that bags apple lights up my fucking day. you can SMELL the anger, the sheer number of responses and their willingness to engage in pointless debate. it's even better when someone can find evidence that MS is doing something better than apple, watching them twist and turn in logic loops attempting to prove you wrong.

ID vs evolution is the only topic i know of that creates more flames.

The Perfect Flamebait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834084)

Tell someone they are ignorant, rude, and wrong... then tell them that it's ignorant, rude, and wrong to disagree with you.

Can't think of a better opinion piece. Well done.

Re:The Perfect Flamebait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834132)

The reporter must be licking someone's balls.

I remember the days before the Internet (-1, Flamebait)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834120)

I used to think DOS PCs were so much better than Macs because DOS PCs played better games. There were Apple vs DOS PC back in the day, and I'd argue for the DOS PCs. I don't think there are as many Microsoft fanboys as there used to be back in the day. Apple fanboys has all the right to boast. After all, Apple invented the personal computer, GUI filesystem. Apple was down for the count, and now it is doing well again.

Re:I remember the days before the Internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834178)

apple didnt invent gui, let alone a gui filesystem (whatever that means)

Re:I remember the days before the Internet (3, Insightful)

Zak3056 (69287) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834206)

Apple fanboys has all the right to boast.

While the employees and shareholders of Apple have every right to boast of its success, I fail to see why fanboys can make any kind of claims as a result. "Hah, I'm superior to you because these people that I am unaffiliated with are better than some other people!" isn't a sane position.

Re:I remember the days before the Internet (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834256)

i think it stems from the fact mac's are so much more expensive then pc's, so the owners of them don't want to appear to be in the socially awkard position of being a sucker.

Re:I remember the days before the Internet (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834222)

Ater all, Apple invented the personal computer, GUI filesystem.

Actually, it was IBM who invented the PC, and Xerox who invented the GUI. But don't let facts get in the way, carry on worshiping Apple.

Re:I remember the days before the Internet (-1, Troll)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834246)

Actually, it was IBM who invented the PC, and Xerox who invented the GUI. But don't let facts get in the way, carry on worshiping Apple.

No, the first personal computer widely accepted by individuals and small businesses was the Apple II. The Apple II predated the IBM PC by many years. Perhaps you are confusing the descriptive phrase "personal computer" with the IBM brand name "Personal Computer".

Re:I remember the days before the Internet (1)

Rog7 (182880) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834372)

The term PC wasn't in usage as a term until later years, they were called Microcomputers to any of us that used them. If anyone should be given credit with inventing the microcomputer / personal computer, it should be Texas Instruments, or perhaps Intel depending on what parts you would consider a true microprocessor.

What Apple did was no different than a host of other hobby computer companies, the Apple II just happened to catch on better than others. But this illustrates the frustrations many of us have with Apple fans, because rewriting history = zealotry.

I must not be a fan then (5, Insightful)

Psykechan (255694) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834136)

I use Apple products all of the time; the only personal computers that I ever have powered on anymore are all Macs. My "promoting" of Macs to friends and family has been more beneficial in convincing some of them to buy Apple products more than any clever advertising. I've even brought Apple into my workplace and who knows, it may even make a decent foothold in the formerly all MS shop. I would consider myself a fan.

But I will point out the negatives in their products where I see them. There is no point in pretending that they don't exist as all that does is give them time to fester. I am a realist. I'll also point out issues with the company when they deserve it. Yeah, praise is better but only if they are going to work for it.

I am more judgmental because I've been in the IT field for years and have used, and I mean really used, many different OSes out there. I also wouldn't have considered calling myself a Mac user before OS X. Sorry fans, but OS 9 was pretty terrible.

I suppose Apple needs the rabid fanbase as they are advertisers that pay the company for the privilege. Maybe Apple should even thank them every now and then for keeping the company afloat for so many years. They also need the realists that speak their mind and truthfully say what is good, what is bad, and what is downright idiotic. Yes, this means that these groups will clash but it is needed.

How else are they going to move forward?

Re:I must not be a fan then (4, Insightful)

budcub (92165) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834322)

I couldn't help noticing how Mac fanatics kept on touting their superior OS, until OS X came along, which fixed all of these problems that they never acknowledged having before. Same thing with the switch to Intel. They kept saying how superior their Power PC chip was, then with the switch to Intel they're saying its now working so much better. WTF?

Even though I'm not a big fan of Apple, I will admit they have some advantages here and there.

Re:I must not be a fan then (4, Interesting)

wass (72082) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834374)

I'm a fan of OS X, and I used to DESPISE macs of OS 9 and earlier. I just didn't like how the old macs felt. I used Linux exclusively from 1998, until my fiancee got a mac mini around 2005, then I got an imac last year, which I've been using exclusively now.

So I don't know why the mac-hating crowd has to paint all of us Mac users with one big fanatic brush. But I can tell you flat out that OS X is what pulled me to the mac, it's UNIX with an awesome GUI, and no more fiddling to get stuff to work that I had to with Linux. If claiming that makes me a rabid fanboy, then so be it.

The most rabid group..... (-1, Flamebait)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834140)

has to be Microsoft fans attacking Mac. Does anyone remember all the talk of Leopard being a knock off of Vista and how much better Vista was? Also Mac security is constantly bashed in spite of the rarity of in the wild attacks. Mac fans seem comfortable and happy with their OS and hardware overall where as Microsoft fans seem to always be attacking Mac or defending Microsoft. I use both I just find Mac has far fewer hassles. It's more stable and secure, the proof is in the using. I buy a computer to use software not tinker with the OS.

Re:The most rabid group..... (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834238)

does anyone seriously believe there is a significant number of MS fans in the world?


i mark you +1 apple fanboy.

Re:The most rabid group..... (1)

Gr33n3gg (1256070) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834268)

Hmm lets see, if all three tribes were stuck on a deserted island, Mac, Windows and Linux...who would turn into cannibals?

Re:The most rabid group..... (1)

AsmordeanX (615669) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834338)

Mac fans, of the rabid kind, are happy with anything Apple does.

As far as how much better Vista was? I'm not sure what you read but Microsoft fans tend to not look across the fence but internally. I can point you to hundreds of XP vs Vista pages and hundreds deep posts on the same. Heck google "Vista vs Leopard" then "Vista vs XP" You get 268K for the first and 1.75 million for the second. Heck even Vista vs Linux turns up a million hits.

For the most part, MS fans really don't care what Apple does. Sure they might swipe the nifty launcher thing but generally they fight with each other. They only time MS fans get really riled up about Apple is when Apple does something idiotic, like put Safari in an iTunes update.

Mac security isn't an issue not because it is superior (it could be, I don't know) but because it is a small target. On a site I run I get 10,000 hits per month and 0.07% of them are Mac users. Yes, a stunning 700 people run Mac that visit the site. Just shy of 1% use Linux and the other 98% run Windows. If you were going to hack an OS, which target would you pick? The barn or the M&M?

Re:The most rabid group..... (1)

wass (72082) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834384)

Mac security isn't an issue not because it is superior (it could be, I don't know) but because it is a small target.

Well, they ARE more secure. It's just that going against Windows it's fairly difficult to actually make something less secure by comparison.

Now if you were to compare OS X to say OpenBSD, it's a different story.

And before I get flamed or accused of being a rabid Mac fanboy, I'm talking about default installations here, as it's possible to security harden any OS. I'm talking about Jane SoccerMom opening the box and using the computer. Of course in that case OpenBSD isn't really an option.

Re:The most rabid group..... (1)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834342)

has to be Microsoft fans attacking Mac. Does anyone remember all the talk of Leopard being a knock off of Vista and how much better Vista was?

That's almost certainly not a Microsoft fan posting, but rather someone successfully trolling you.

I assume that trolls go after the Apple die-hards for (one of) the reason most virus writers target insecure Windows boxes: it's just so much damn easier than the alternative. I mean, if someone posted, "Windows is so much better than Linux because it is more secure and runs better on older hardware," on slashdot, 99% of even the most rabid Linux zealots here would recognize that for a troll and leave it be. For whatever reason, equally obvious anti-Apple trolls find bites aplenty.

Re:The most rabid group..... (1)

AaronLawrence (600990) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834344)

There were relatively few such posts/discussions. I'm afraid you've just demonstrated the article's point: you see bias where there isn't any (or relatively little).

Other tribes (-1, Troll)

Phroggy (441) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834174)

I wouldn't say Apple's is the largest such tribe. Consider the Republican party. About 30% of the US population thinks President Bush has done a fantastic job with the Iraq war, and has made the country safer from terrorists.

Re:Other tribes (1)

Zak3056 (69287) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834260)

About 30% of the US population thinks President Bush has done a fantastic job with the Iraq war, and has made the country safer from terrorists.

I personally cannot come to any other conclusion than that the last seven years have been a disaster for our nation, but you'd be downright amazed what some people base their opinions on. Usually, it's pretty simplistic, along the lines of "there have not been any more 9/11s" or "we're killing bunches of them over there instead of them coming over here and killing us." What it comes down to is not that these people are insane (as much as I'd like to believe otherwise) or cannot divorce themselves from an ideal (though in many cases this is true) but that they simply have different metrics than you or I do.

Re:Other tribes (1)

MrNaz (730548) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834270)

"Tribe" is the wrong word. I'd use either "rabble", "mob" or perhaps "bunch of loonies who escaped from the asylum island by impersonating garbage".

Re:Other tribes (1)

0xdeadbeef (28836) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834354)

I have a theory that Republicans and Apple zealots have almost the same in-group / out-group mental processes.

They perceive themselves as underdogs and have inferiority complexes.
They are in reality quite successful, due to careful planning and clever marketing and unwavering commitment to certain goals.
The elites have a deep understanding of human psychology, and exploit it on both their enemies and followers ruthlessly.
Criticism of their leader or "platform" is interpreted as personal attacks by every member of the group.
They employ a very selective morality, and seem incapable of recognizing hypocrisy.
Nothing less than the complete acceptance of the standard dogma is tolerated for membership in the "tribe".

Of course, the difference is, after actually attaining power, Apple remains competent.

Love of corporations abounds (1)

heroine (1220) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834182)

The Apple phenomenum affects all corporations. Maybe it's because we're more invested in the success of corporations through the stock market than any previous generation or because corporations reach farther into every day life than ever before, through the internet. Except for Microsoft, there is more love, trust, and belief that corporate decisions can do no wrong in lieu our own personal judgement than any previous time.

You can't even say anything bad about Jobs (4, Interesting)

ptbarnett (159784) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834188)

Earlier in the week, I posted this comment [slashdot.org] to this thread [slashdot.org] , about something in the first three paragraphs in the referenced article [wired.com] .

I was amazed at the number of fanboi's that modded it off-topic, only to have it modded it back up, then back down again. Some apparently thought I had committed blasphemy.

Saw it on Digg the other day, (1)

MulluskO (305219) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834204)

It was a link to a video of a frustrated fox friend getting up and leaving over what was clearly purposeful misunderstanding of a speech delivered by Obama. In the comments (which I really ought not to read) there was a little discussion about how Fox News is a moderate source of news and commentary and NPR spouts communist propaganda. Notable in the argument was its lack of any support to its claim by way of example. I've listened to NPR myself, and while the commentators which speak do lean to the left, I they do a good job of keeping news and comment separate.

I won't say the same for Fox.

Mac Pride (4, Insightful)

gyrogeerloose (849181) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834228)

The real reason Mac fans tend to be overly defensive is that they've felt marginalized by software and hardware vendors for years due to Microsoft's dominance in the desktop computing arena. I'm not blaming the vendors, sometimes fiscal reality precludes making a version of their product for a relatively small market, but it can be frustrating to Mac users who are convinced that their platform is superior to what Microsoft has to offer but still have to wait months or years, if ever, to get their hands on a desirable product.

It's not unlike other minorities--African-Americans, gays etc., (not that Mac marginalization has anywhere near the same significance as the often violent discrimination that gays and blacks have experienced in their lifetimes)--who react to discrimination by the majority by developing a sense community "pride."

Granted, though, many of Apple's fans go way overboard in it's defense. This, BTW, is from a long-time Mac user and recovering "rabid" fanboy who converted from Microsoft way back in DOS days who now uses OS X, Kubuntu and Windows XP interchangeably as necessary.

Re:Mac Pride (1)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834388)

This, BTW, is from a long-time Mac user and recovering "rabid" fanboy who converted from Microsoft way back in DOS days who now uses OS X, Kubuntu and Windows XP interchangeably as necessary.
Anywhere else, that would be called "pragmatic" and "even-handed". Here, about 98% of the people who read your post will have to sit very still so they can hate you with their entire bodies.

Many Apple users are unable to see real problems (4, Interesting)

truthisabsolute (624291) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834244)

I have experience administering 12 xserves and 35 OSX clients located in US, UK and india. We ended up using xserves, imacs, powerbooks, and G5 towers because the CTO was an apple fanatic, not based on what was the best product after fair evaluation. From my experince I would never use OSX as a server platform because it has been less reliable than windoz and I am not a fan of windoz. Real unix is not tied to the GUI the way OSX is - a GUI problem can easily lock or crash an OSX server while "real" unix or linux does not have this weakness. Perhaps OSX without a GUI would be more reliable???? While I like Linux it also has it's flaws but using it or a "real" unix flavor for servers will lead to much more reliability. From my experience OSX is great as a client for those who are comfortable with the interface but it is not more stable than windoz which is a serious insult but true in my experience. I can say that OSX is more secure than windoz for a dumb user but a careful windoz user can be as or almost as secure if the right safeguards are in place. Personally I use Linux as primary OS and run windoz in virtual machines when needed. Some day Mac users may evolve to the point where they can use more than one mouse button and/or be able to resize windows from any edge or corner. When simple stuff like that happens I may use OSX more for a desktop, but I do not ever expect to use it for important services. Since the CTO has left we have moved most critical services to Linux and things are much more stable now. It seems like a cult of personality, with apple/OSX being the personality, will continue to prevent the apple fanatics from seeing clearly. I will be serverly trashed for these comments but the ones that are serious about apple know there are many real and serious issues with this proprietary OS/Hardware combo especially for critical services. If you want to solve serious apple issues afp548.com is a great resource for serious information and it seems they do not religiously sugar coat issue as most apple users do.

The article in short (4, Insightful)

tsa (15680) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834254)

Why are Mac fans so quick to see bias everywhere? On issues we're passionate about, we all tend to think our own views are essentially reasonable. Thus when a reporter, editor, news network, or pundit mentions the other side's arguments, it stings.
  That's basically all the article says. And we knew that, of course. But why are Apple fans so extremely sensitive to criticism? I've said many 'bad' things about Apple on this forum, and it inevitably got me modded down. Apple zealots are even worse than the Linux zealots of ten years back.

Objectivity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834262)

It's kinda like atheism vs. theism. I know, what has this bumbling AC gotten himself into this time? Theists believe there is a god, but don't deliver a falsifiable way to prove/disprove god. Atheist believe there isn't a god, and provides evidence that it is likely so by pointing to stuff that indicates this. Both ultimately rely on belief, as atheists cannot disprove god with absolute certainty since the theists does not provide them with a way to do so.

Which is why I'm an agnostic, don't allow yourself to believe when it comes to important matters, verifiable truth above all is the golden chalice one should strive for. To know > to believe.

Hence I retain my right to objectively criticize theists and mac-users, and expect any rabid response to be nothing but irrational belief. If you wish to be heard, strike out the rhetoric, the passioned love for your inclination, and the boiling hatred of any who'd oppose this.

Bumbling AC over and out.

I was a Apple fanboy till last night (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22834288)

Been having lots of problems with my wi-fi dropping out very awell documented at Apples forums.I have done every little trick in the book, I am very computer literate mind you.I posted a "negative" remark on a certain forum and had people who just "switched" even telling me its my problem, because their machines are working.Well, Apple can do wrong and have been for years now!!! Apple is an arrogant 800Lb gorilla now(the mac vs pc ads are proof enough, pure negative marketing), IMHO, far worse now that market share is up.QC is bad, CS is non existent. Unless you pay up for "pro", which is even more insulting when you talk to a tech who knows less than you do.- But the best thing I learned in the last 24 hrs is that win XP on my MBP runs great, has no wi-fi drop outs and must give a big thanks to Apple for Bootcamp, Win XP is the cure for your shoddy OSX.

You and Farhad need to stop pimping each other (4, Insightful)

gelfling (6534) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834330)

His columns for the whole past week were excerpts from his new book. And now he's getting air time from /. His basic thesis is - GEE who's a thought - people on the internet all flock to likeminded opinions to the exclusion of all rational discussion about anything that deviates from their gospel. Wow, never saw that coming.

BTW Farhad is the biggest Apple Fanboy in the world. Before this week 80% of his columns were about iPhones, iPods, Macs and Apple.

You have never met Amiga fans have you (1)

giorgist (1208992) | more than 6 years ago | (#22834392)

"none more zealous, than fans of Apple"

You have never met Amiga fans have you , there are few still left,
their reality distortion field is such that their computers perform miracles
even though the battery has long bios leaked all over the motherboard a long time ago.

G <ex Amiga user, I don't consider my self free unless I hit the 10 year without it mark>

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