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If Java Wasn't Cool 10 Years Ago, What About Now?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:What's the point? (500 comments)

I could as easily pick apart your arguments. I find it hard to imagine never using code that is shared with other projects for example. Why re-invent the wheel? Are you declaring code re-use dead? What about the system libraries? Do you hack those without notice too?

You could move the goalposts like that. I explicitly didn't respond because that is trying to derail the conversation.

But what the hell. You've stopped actually responding to the points I make.

So, I would contend that code reuse is helped, not hampered, by compiler-verified interfaces. I would contend that your "code reuse" is so stifling that it is literally inferior to copy-and-pasting... at least with copy-and-pasted code you can improve the module you copied without worrying that it breaks things.

And what happened to unit testing where you should easily enough shake out cases where people called a function they shouldn't have?

Why do you want to re-invent the wheel. Now, unit testing is good, but using unit testing to re implement (imperfectly) interfaces is, well, crazy.

I have argued that the programmer who just takes the IDE's word for it will eventually end up in deep trouble.

No, you've argued that programmers are perfect, that the comments will always be accurate, functions you call will never change, and the comments always need to be read for every getter and setter. And that's just to reject my examples.

And I categorically reject any of the above.

You seem to be arguing that duck typing is bad because shoddy practices rule.

Since the only example you have been able to give as to why duck-typing has any benefit, is as a patch to shoddy use of interfaces, this seems a remarkably dumb statement. I contend that duck-typing hurts the ability of the computer to detect errors, and your only response is that some people didn't properly use interfaces in legacy code. Not that interfaces are somehow a bad way to program. But a shoddy programmer may not have used them.

Well, fuck that. A paradigm that gives up useful features to paper-over shitty work, or allows code reuse between kinda existent modules via unspecified hack code that works 95% of the time is bad. Heck, any code that would need to be papered over like you suggest probably shouldn't be trusted. Duck typing is bad, it encourages bad practices and bad coding, and allows bad programmers to continue programming with silent errors as opposed to either fixing their shit or quitting their job and flipping burgers.

4 hours ago

U.S. Senator: All Cops Should Wear Cameras

Actually, I do RTFA Re:The death of leniency (474 comments)

Cops have the authority and discretion to issue verbal or written warnings instead of citations for moving violations, so video recording won't change that.

And indeed, sometimes the requirement. For instance, in a state that shall remain nameless, the state patrol on drunk driving duty is supposed to pull over people who cannot stay between the lines. They don't bother citing the people who spilled soda in their lap, or were distracted, etc. It's not what their job is. But they do give a formal warning. That way, when their patrol is over, their sergeant can see they weren't asleep, or at a strip club.

5 hours ago

If Java Wasn't Cool 10 Years Ago, What About Now?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:What's the point? (500 comments)

you just called whatever the IDE autopopulated with, apparently without bothering to check what it was. Or at least that's what you said may happen.

Right, because you thought that the function was a different one because you misremembered the name. Or because you would assume a function like "getCurrentHealth()" would return the health of a character, and not, I don't know, concatenate two Strings randomly. Especially if that's what similar, or identically named, functions do throughout a library.

But, yeah, it may happen.

And oral lore is really "consulting with collegues" Which totally happens in real situations. If I ask someone, for example, how to get an arctan value outside the -pi/2 to pi/2 range, them explaining quickly how to use atan2f is more valuable than telling me a function name and "GTFO;RTFM".

Bottom line, I'm advocating for computers doing the work instead of comments (which may be unread, or out of date, or literally written after the code that referred to them). I posit many, many, reasons why having a computer check for errors instead of a human being. Your only response is that "Dude, but then I cannot hack two systems together using magic glue that happens to work, and enforces on everyone a requirement of never even optimizing their code, because any change could break my system. And could be avoided if I followed best practices."

When every advantage you suggest can be done in a superior way without using duck typing, I'm blown away. You have argued that perfect programmers don't need the fuckin' IDE, they can check their own work. Well, perfect programmers don't need the fuckin' comments either, they can read the entire code and know what happens.

I can only assume you're trolling, because while I've heard people defend duck-typing before, I've never heard such a malformed argument.

5 hours ago

If Java Wasn't Cool 10 Years Ago, What About Now?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:What's the point? (500 comments)

I presume you use the old cut'n'past code 'sharing' method with a significant appearance of the cargo cult antipattern?

Clearly the only reason you would say something like that is a particularly stupid ad homenim. I'm talking about using interfaces and code review. I'm talking about best design practices. Clearly, since I'm advocating for using interfaces, I'm not copy-and-pasting code. But advocating for what you are advocating for is actually really compatible with cut-and-pasted-code.

But that level of intentional misunderstanding may bleed into my responses below.

If any of that happens, you absolutely positively deserve everything you get. DO NOT call a function if you don't know what it is!

At this point, I wonder how your "everything in comments" system architecture works, since you seem to have issues reading. I mean, nothing I wrote says "call functions randomly".

I talked about an obvious human error (incorrect memory of a name); I talked about being given information from a collegue; I talked about coordination issues where function signatures changed; and I talked about how hard it made code reviews.

The fact that you don't seem to recognize these possible issue makes me question your experience. Because these are all things that happen.

Surely you don't recommend unilaterally changing code used in other projects!

I'm not going to make an argument here, because this is obviously going to lead to a conversation derailing where you don't address my valid points above.

10 hours ago

Uber Has a Playbook For Sabotaging Lyft, Says Report

Actually, I do RTFA Re:Illegal (179 comments)

Obviously the threshold of proof for the latter is a lot higher.

You mean like entering into said contract with burner everything, provided in a kit with instructions on how to avoid methods designed to detect a high likelihood of said contract breach?

12 hours ago

If Java Wasn't Cool 10 Years Ago, What About Now?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:What's the point? (500 comments)

The thread is about Java being/not being an appropriate mid-point between Pyt hon-like interpreted languages and C++ like compiled languages.

Well, first, C++, Java and Python all have multiple inheritance. Java just only does it with interfaces. Which you objected to by stating no one did multiple inheritance except Python.

But at a higher level, this sub-thread seems to be about your assertions that duck-typed and interpreted languages are superior to compiled languages.

Someone thinking of calling the function should certainly see it.

Really? Cause I can think of a lot of reasons that's not the case. Just in like 2 minutes:

  1. It got autopopulated in my IDE, and *sounds like* the function I intend to use. Possibly even one I've used before and am mis-remembering the name of.
  2. The "Here be Dragons" got added later, when the signature of the function didn't change (or it did, but duck-typing, so no-errors, let's go!)
  3. I was told about the function verbally, so I never read the docs. I then told someone else. At some point, the oral tradition drops the "Here be Dragons".
  4. In a less formal code review (maybe someone in charge of many programmers, who cannot do a full read of all of their code) there is no way to easily have them find it all using grep.

Your solution is really fragile. It requires never changing classes once they are created (at least the public members thereof) because you never know if they are used. Which, in some languages, or with some programmers, is all the members.

Further, the only situation you seem to be able to suggest where it is useful is when you have, I'm assuming read-only, access to two modules, and need to create some code that hacks both of them together. And at least one module declines to use the proper method of defining interfaces and using those.

To get that feature, you're willing to jettison a ton of compile time checking, make the codebase fragile and hard to change.

Honest questions: Have you ever worked on a large codebase? Multiple developer? Multi-year? Cause what you write makes me assume that you, in fact, do not. That your big issues are hacking together two JQuery modules, and you make websites where you're the sole coder.

12 hours ago

If Java Wasn't Cool 10 Years Ago, What About Now?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:What's the point? (500 comments)

Python does a decent job with multiple inheritance,

Eh, so does C++.

The only time C++ really has trouble is if A and B share the names of methods/variables. And the reason they will have trouble is that there is no solvable way to not have trouble. Not for a computer. Not for a programmer.

Although, I don't see how you can possibly go wrong, if you can write to the module that contains A creating an interface A implements, and changing the code that the module uses to use said interface.. There's no difference for backwards compatibility. (Unless you don't believe in namespaces, and have to worry about truely unique names everywhere.)

"""Here there be dragons, beware"""

See, that's not something that is easy to search for in code reviews. Because, there is no validation that I did not write: *** Off the edge of the world: Sea Serpents Around ***

And if you cannot trust other programmers to use fucking interfaces, you cannot trust them to use the right magic strings.


Is Dong Nguyen Trolling Gamers With "Swing Copters"?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:This doesn't compute...or does it (112 comments)

Then I thought, well perhaps designer spends years designing a game with all sorts of clever ideas then copiers use them all a few days after release. I have to ask, though, is this what happens?

What happens is that the developer has dozens of ideas, and the 30th one actually works. People like it; people play it. It has the right "stuff" that it becomes a success. Finding that combination is what takes years. Actually producing that one game may have only taken the amount of time it takes a copier.

Although tuning very well also takes a lot of time.

Surely a game must spend some time before becoming popular enough to copy, during which it builds a following and has first mover advantage. Copiers can't copy those advantages

Well, I mean, Candy Crush is a cheap knockoff. Sometimes, marketing muscle beats out organic growth. Hell, Zynga used to threaten (and follow through on threats to) to just clone games if they would not sell, and then popularize the Zynga version through their marketing. They then would crush the original.

Hell, there are lists, both in games and in the world, where people think that the original is a cheap knockoff.

My favorite example is Hydrox vs. Oreo, but numerous others exist.

2 days ago

If Java Wasn't Cool 10 Years Ago, What About Now?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:What's the point? (500 comments)

You can also cast things around until the compiler and IDE buy it and wait for the SEGV.

You can do a lot of things. But having a code that says "danger, this code requires a lot of care to touch." is a good thing. Casting things through a void* or something like that is an excellent example of how you can detect that when reviewing or working on code. Plus, that's the exception. So when I see a void*, I know that the documentation is really important.

It's on the developer to know when they can and cannot get away with it.

I don't understand why. Fundamentally, it seems superior to have a computer check for bugs for you. That's what static code analysis is all about.

If you don't KNOW if class A and Bs X methods are actually compatible, what in the hell are you doing passing them around? You're supposed to know that.

Because I'm human, and made a mistake? Because when I wrote the code they were compatible, but then someone changed the definitions of one of the classes without knowing it would break my assumed usage because they weren't aware of everywhere that the code would be used in the entire codebase. Because there are multiple developers on a project?

This would be a lot less of an issue if multiple inheritance was better supported, but it's not.If it was, I could write the module explicitly around class A. Later, given a class B that should work fine with the module, I could derive Bprime inheriting from A and B and it would be fine.

But it actually is pretty well supported, especially in this case. I mean, actual multiple inheritance is always a shitshow. But interfaces are totally well supported and easy to use. I don't understand what issues you think arise from using interfaces. But I can say that what you describe is pretty much what should happen. Although really you should write the module around Aprime, an interface, and then say that both A and B implement interface Aprime.

2 days ago

If Java Wasn't Cool 10 Years Ago, What About Now?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:What's the point? (500 comments)

Duck typing is a mixed bag.

Curious, let's see how.

You can make the requirements clearer in comments and the doc string.

I suppose that's the admitted disadvantage? That I can type more to have limitations enforced by humans instead of machines.

t also has great advantages in being more concerned with attributes than declared type or lineage. It allows modules to deal with classes that weren't even imagined when they were written.

You mean like interfaces would let you do?

2 days ago

Ask Slashdot: What Do You Wish You'd Known Starting Out As a Programmer?

Actually, I do RTFA Re:C++ is not the language you start with (548 comments)

Pascal was a good choice of learning language. Now that OOP has proven out, Java is a good choice. Stay away from the rest until you're competent in one of those two.

If you don't start out dealing with hand-managed memory, you don't learn how memory works. Which means you do stupid shit later.

about a week ago

Study: Ad-Free Internet Would Cost Everyone $230-a-Year

Actually, I do RTFA Re:heh (609 comments)

n many sites you'll be met with messages such as: We've noticed that you have an Ad Blocker, as we're depending on advertisement revenue to provide you with free services - we will kindly ask you to turn your Ad Blocker off and reload the page to see your content.

I don't think I've ever seen that message.

about a week ago

Study: Ad-Free Internet Would Cost Everyone $230-a-Year

Actually, I do RTFA Re:sure it would (609 comments)

And we could still have e-comerce on the web, we could still use sites like Amazon rather than having to drive miles to get to a limited selection and pay higher prices at a local "friendly" bookstore. But somehow there would be no advertising.

The idea that Amazon, or any of e-commerce, would disappear in the absence of ads on the web is really really strange. Do you know that Amazon makes their money off selling things and content, not ads? They buy goods for lower prices then they sell them, and make money on a "markup". And the same is true of all e-commerce sites?

Like, eBay takes a cut of transactions. It doesn't show ads.

about a week ago

Study: Ad-Free Internet Would Cost Everyone $230-a-Year

Actually, I do RTFA Re:I'd pay for it in a heartbeat! (609 comments)

Why wouldn't Google exist (as a search engine) without advertising. I mean, they made the engine, and monetized it later. Lacking ads, they could probably get by just fine ala Wikipedia.

about a week ago

Snowden: NSA Working On Autonomous Cyberwarfare Bot

Actually, I do RTFA Re:Where the fuck is the EU? (194 comments)

Every US citizen is yelling for their constitutional rights broken by the NSA. But no Europeans complain about what the NSA is doing to THEM.

Well, that would be counterproductive. See, we get upset when the NSA spies on us But we love when the NSA spies on not us. The best strategy for EU residents is to shut up an hope we go too far in shutting down the spying.

I mean, I pay the NSA to spy on not us. That's their fucking job.

about two weeks ago

Apple's Diversity Numbers: 70% Male, 55% White

Actually, I do RTFA Re:But no sympathy for Foxconn workers? (561 comments)

Well, they've been working to replace Foxconn workers with robots. Presumably, once enough of the line is automated, they'll rip it out of china and move it to somewhere cheaper

about two weeks ago

Apple's Diversity Numbers: 70% Male, 55% White

Actually, I do RTFA Re: That's a problem we have (561 comments)

Most student loans will cover unpaid internships.

Also, yeah it sucks, but what's the pragmatic solution. Financially well-off parents means better childhood health and better education, almost certainly leading to a better qualified future candidate. All other things being equal.

about two weeks ago

Apple's Diversity Numbers: 70% Male, 55% White

Actually, I do RTFA Re:Stupid (561 comments)

who does the best work. If you don't think this is true, ask yourself whether you'd rather have a semi-competent pilot flying your airliner because the airline was forced to accept hiring quotas, or whether you'd rather have the very best pilot available controlling the airliner on which you are a passenger.

Competent is fine by me. I don't care if they are Charles Lindburgh reincarnated or just some guy who can keep it, metaphorically, between the lines. In fact, I'd rather the pilot was cheaper and the savings passed on to me. (Which also seems to be what the airlines have done)

Now, unqualified/incompetent is a different matter. But, not the best does not imply unqualified.

about two weeks ago

Inside the Facebook Algorithm Most Users Don't Even Know Exists

Actually, I do RTFA Re:Real OG (130 comments)

"Doability" isn't. How long you look at the post is. So, FB figured out your preferred use of their service is to look at small pictures of attractive women.

about three weeks ago

Inside the Facebook Algorithm Most Users Don't Even Know Exists

Actually, I do RTFA Re:its interesting, but only if you dont use faceb (130 comments)

Facebook isnt interested in you as a person, theyre interested in you as a product.

Why would it be otherwise?

Ethically: Because someone read Kant.

Financially: Because it will likely lead to a longer lived network, that makes more money over 90+ years, but less money in the first decade.

about three weeks ago



Why would you teach your kid to brush his teeth - there's an app for that.

Actually, I do RTFA Actually, I do RTFA writes  |  about 3 months ago

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) writes "

Have you ever tried to teach your kid the "Bass-Stillman" brushing technique — the technique that dental professionals would try to teach your child if they thought he could handle it?

That's the question asked by Brush Up, a new mobile game with a bluetooth-enabled toothbrush. They purport to be able to train your child to brush his own teeth. They seem to back it up, as they used NIH (National Institute of Health) money to run a year long study.

Interestingly, they hired a developmental psychologist, because apparently you brain handles brushing your teeth differently when you are younger.

Their website has some information, but they seem to have put a lot more effort into their Kickstarter page.

Would you trust your child to bring a tablet/phone into the bathroom as they brush? Do you think you can teach better than a game? Or will parents not ask themselves any of those questions, and just buy it to get their kid to brush his teeth without a fight?"

Link to Original Source


Fluke Donates Real Multimeters to SparkFun as goodwill gesture

Actually, I do RTFA Actually, I do RTFA writes  |  about 5 months ago

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) writes "We recently heard about the confiscation of a delivery of multimeters to SparkFun for infringing on Fluke's trademark. One common thread in the discussions was the theme that Fluke should have let that shipment through ("lawyers" argued about the legal ramifications of it) as a goodwill gesture to SparkFun and the Maker community. Well, Fluke did one better. They announced they were sending more than $30k worth of official multimeters to SparkFun for them to do whatever they want with.

SparkFun is most likely going to give them away.

A great example of win-win-win?"

Link to Original Source

Microsoft loses final appeal in EU Antitrust case.

Actually, I do RTFA Actually, I do RTFA writes  |  more than 6 years ago

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) writes "Being a convicted monopolist in Europe may be not as sweet a deal as in the United States. Microsoft has been forced to allow blanket licences to its server protocols[Free registration required]. Although they will still be raking in the money (at 10,000 euro upfront and 0.4% in royalties), it seems paltry compared to the almost 6% royalty rate they used to insist upon. And Microsoft has already paid 1 billion euros ( $1.43 billion US ) for the privledge of appealing to this stage, with a possibility that they will owe another 1.6 billion euros more.

Since they are having such a bad day, I thought I might as well advertise where you can purchase access to their proprietary code to make up for it. Curiously enough though, that site is down."

Our ATM is broken, so you go to jail?

Actually, I do RTFA Actually, I do RTFA writes  |  about 7 years ago

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) writes "A short while ago, slashdot featured an article about possible criminal prosecution for people who took advantage of faulty slot machine software. At the time, many people drew an analogy to an ATM that dispensed too much money. Well, apparently, that too may result in criminal charges. Interestingly, although they suspect that someone may have tampered with the ATM, they are considering charging anyone who withdrew money from the ATM.

This also provides an interesting rejoinder to 'if they can build a secure ATM, why cannot Diebold build a secure electronic voting machine.'"

Link to Original Source


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