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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re: Yes this is Terrible. (178 comments)

Wikipedia disagrees.

Wow if Wikipedia disagrees, I guess that solves the issue....

But who are you trying to refute?

How are you saying anything different from what I said? The industry wanted Apple to license its DRM. Apple refused and said if the industry wants interoperability and competition license the music free of DRM and they will go along with it.

yesterday
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re: Yes this is Terrible. (178 comments)

I don't care what Jobs said. It's irrelevant. Amazon's store was DRM free. They had the major labels within a year. Apple did not.

It was a whole extra 6 months.

I don't care what Jobs said at the time. Amazon got it done while Jobs was still blathering on about it.
Actions beat words. Apple didn't rid DRM from their catalog until Amazon forced them to. You can go on talking about Jobs all you want. I saw what actually took place.

Obviously you didn't see what took place. You didn't know that the average user had 12 songs bought from iTunes on their iPod. The truth is that once every other company failed to sell DRM music because it wouldn't work on the iPod and Apple refused to license FairPlay, the industry didn't have a choice.

Do you really think that Apple - the company that first was able to get a consistent licensing agreement with its while catalog - was trying to keep DRM even though they got rid of it as soon as they were allowed to?

Hardware margins are a fool's game. Apple is going to lose its shirt if it keeps betting on them.

People have been predicting that Apples margins would collapse since 1977.

Digital goods is the future.Mark this comment and come back in a few years.

If only Apple had a thriving. growing digital goods business that sold music, video, and apps....

You know, maybe they should also get into payments! Nahh, that would never work...

You'll see. I also wouldn't bet against Amazon. They're making strategic moves now and sacrificing the short term to win big in the long term

Someone also hasn't looked into Apple's CAPEX.....

Amazon has been in business for over 17 years. 17 years ago in 1997 Apple was almost bankrupt and now is the most valuable company in the world. Who's strategy has worked better?

yesterday
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re: Yes this is Terrible. (178 comments)

I don't care who sold DRM free first. This thread is from my comment pointing out that Apple is not the reason music sales now are free of DRM.

You've already shown that you don't the history behind what happened. But even after posting the dates that Jobs posted a letter stating that they would go DRM free if the labels allowed them and proving that they would once they were allowed to by one of the labels you still insist that Amazon forced them too?

If you knew the history, you would know that the labels didn't want to go DRM free. They wanted Apple to license FairPlay so other retailers like Real would have a chance. Apple said no and their only alternative was to go DRM free because no one would buy music that they couldn't use on iPods.

Amazon's catalog was entirely free of DRM, and they had the major labels within a year. Amazon did that, not Apple. Amazon got there well before Apple. Get it? That's my first comment here.

If by well before Apple you mean less than a year....

Apple can't rely on device sales. There's not much more you can make a gadget do. What's going to be next for innovation? Twice the resolution of a retina display? Digital goods are going to be the bread-winner. It's inevitable.

Yes and inevitable the world will come to an end. But Apple has been selling hardware since 1977.

Your last bit there doesn't contradict anything I said. Amazon could have been number one if Apple dug in on the whole DRM thing.

Amazon still in 2014 only sales music in two countries. in 2008, Apple had 70% plus of the MP3 market. Most people in the U.S. were either using iPods or CDs - both of which were supported by iTunes. They weren't affected by Apple's DRM.

I think that's part of what pushed Amazon to create their line of devices. The device drives the catalog. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here. I wouldn't bet on Apple, but who knows

You obviously don't know how little money is made off of selling digital goods compared to the margins Apple makes on hardware or how little profit Amazon has made over its entire 15+ year existence.

What next? Do you think Intel can't keep successfully selling processors?

yesterday
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re: Yes this is Terrible. (178 comments)

Within a year of Amazon opening their digital music store, they had the major labels. Apple was still heavily into DRM then. I don't really care what Apple wanted to do, I'm looking at the facts for what they are.

You mean like your previous "fact" that Amazon started selling DRM free music before Apple did?

A year in, Amazon had what it needed to be a significant threat to Apple's iTunes store. Jobs may have been truthful saying that little music came from their store at the time, most music would have been ripped from people's CD collections, and I'm sure a significant chunk from file sharing. What was their percent out of the total that had been purchased from online?

If only Jobs had stated how many songs on a typical consumers iPod came from iTunes in his "Thouhts on Music" post. We would know....

Oh wait he did....

I'm sure they saw the iTunes store as a big part of Apple's future. Device sales alone only get you so far.

If only we could look into the distant future in 2014, 7 years after all this happened and see what percentage of Apple's revenue came from device sales of that iPhone thing they introduced in 2007. compared to music sales and iPod sales. I'm sure you're right, it's not like over 90% of their revenue come from devices....

One thing is certain, Jobs wouldn't have been giving Amazon credit for busting DRM. That doesn't mean they didn't play a big part. They pulled off what Apple couldn't or wouldn't.

You mean after 7 years still being the number one music retailer in the world?

yesterday
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re: Yes this is Terrible. (178 comments)

That's not what happened.

Here is the long version of the story....

1. Around the end of 2006, the EU was clamoring for Apple to license FairPlay. That's why Jobs said that most of the four record labels were based in the EU.

2. Jobs posted "Thoughts on Music" (the previously quoted article) telling the music industry if they wanted interoperability they could license their music DRM free.

3. Most of the music industry wanted Apple to have variable price music and to allow full albums to be sold without breaking them up. Apple refused. But made a deal with EMI.
4. The industry wouldn't let Apple sell music over the cellular network on the then new iPhone.
5. Amazon starts selling DRM free music acquiescing to the studios demands.
6. 2008 - around the time that Amazon had all four labels, Apple gave in to the labels on variable price music in exchange for DRM free music and the right to sell over the cellular network.

If you read the entire "thoughts on music" article, Jobs said that very little music in the typical iPod came from iTunes.

Amazon was only selling music in the US from two of the labels when it first came out. Not real competition to Apple.

yesterday
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re: Yes this is Terrible. (178 comments)

Amazon didn't launch with all four of the major record labels. So while all of their music was DRM free. They didn't have all of the music that Apple had.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Music

yesterday
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re:Yes this is Terrible. (178 comments)

I've spent probably a few hundred pounds with Amazon, just because when I started buying music online they were the place to offer DRM free. Apple lost me as a customer because of DRM.

Apple started selling DRM free music (5/2007) before Amazon started selling music (9/2007).

yesterday
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re:Huh? (178 comments)

Apple sold music with DRM in 2006. That music was hard or impossible to copy, as music with DRM should be. But that's not what Apple was sued for. And making it impossible for music with DRM to be copied is actually what DRM is there for.

If by "hard to copy" you mean use iTunes to burn a regular audio CD containing the DRM'd songs and then use iTunes to rip the songs as an MP3.

yesterday
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re:Deals? (178 comments)

Say that to Google, they don't have the right to make their search products to only work with their browser or OSs

Google Maps with navigation only worked with Android for 3 years.

Google NaCL only works with Chrome.

Do you want other examples of Google technologies that only work with Chrome and/or Android?

2 days ago
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Apple Wins iTunes DRM Case

Karlt1 Re:Yes this is Terrible. (178 comments)

The only reason they did that is because Amazon beat them to it and was taking their customers away. If not for competition, Apple never would have removed DRM.

2/6/2007
http://macdailynews.com/2007/0...

"The third alternative is to abolish DRMs entirely. Imagine a world where every online store sells DRM-free music encoded in open licensable formats. In such a world, any player can play music purchased from any store, and any store can sell music which is playable on all players. This is clearly the best alternative for consumers, and Apple would embrace it in a heartbeat. If the big four music companies would license Apple their music without the requirement that it be protected with a DRM, we would switch to selling only DRM-free music on our iTunes store. Every iPod ever made will play this DRM-free music."

  "Perhaps those unhappy with the current situation should redirect their energies towards persuading the music companies to sell their music DRM-free. For Europeans, two and a half of the big four music companies are located right in their backyard. The largest, Universal, is 100% owned by Vivendi, a French company. EMI is a British company, and Sony BMG is 50% owned by Bertelsmann, a German company. Convincing them to license their music to Apple and others DRM-free will create a truly interoperable music marketplace. Apple will embrace this wholeheartedly."

5/30/2007

Apple starts selling DRM free music

https://www.apple.com/pr/libra...

9/25/2007
Amazon starts selling DRM free music,
http://readwrite.com/2007/09/2...

As you were saying?

2 days ago
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Apple and Samsung Already Working On A9 Processor

Karlt1 Re:Milo Minderbinder (114 comments)

It's no different than Netflix and Amazon. Amazon Prime and Netflix are direct competitors but Netflix streaming is hosted on AWS

2 days ago
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Former iTunes Engineer Tells Court He Worked To Block Competitors

Karlt1 Re: So much for his career (160 comments)

He also said magic medicine would cure his cancer.

Which one of his claims were false?

1. That when the records labels allowed Apple to sell DRM free music, Apple didn't do it?

2. That every iPod ever made could play DRM free MP3's?

4 days ago
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Former iTunes Engineer Tells Court He Worked To Block Competitors

Karlt1 Re: So much for his career (160 comments)

You could play all of the Non-DRM non Apple music you wanted on the iPod. ITunes had built in support for CD ripping.

4 days ago
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Former iTunes Engineer Tells Court He Worked To Block Competitors

Karlt1 Re: So much for his career (160 comments)

Playing MP3 is not owned by Apple. Forcing to reformat IPOD when they find "bad" songs. All are acts of "monoploy" protecting their interest.

Every iPod ever made could play non-DRMd MP3 files. If Real was in fact trying to sell MP3 files their wouldn't be a problem.

4 days ago
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Former iTunes Engineer Tells Court He Worked To Block Competitors

Karlt1 Re: So much for his career (160 comments)

Steve Jobs posted the following to the home page of Apple back in 2007 when everyone was clamoring for Apple to license FairPlay....

"If the big four music companies would license Apple their music without the requirement that it be protected with a DRM, we would switch to selling only DRM-free music on our iTunes store. Every iPod ever made will play this DRM-free music."

4 days ago
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Apple DRM Lawsuit Loses Last Plaintiff, but Judge Rules Against Dismissal

Karlt1 Re: What? (70 comments)

A couple of years ago I received an iPod Classic as a gift. At the time, the price was $259, which I consider to be ridiculous. Does this meant they were even more expensive previousl

So how much were competing 160GB MP3 players in 2012?

about a week ago
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Should IT Professionals Be Exempt From Overtime Regulations?

Karlt1 Re: And for a contrarian view.... (545 comments)

I have worked in the industry for almost 20 years and it has never taken me more than a month to find a job paying more than what I was making. If you are a halfway competent developer with a modicum of interview skills and a decent network of friends and recruiters in the industry, it's not really that difficult to negotiate a fair compensation based on the workload. I have never had to work consistently more than 40 hour wotk weeks because of unrealistic deadlines. I expect to work longer with a new (to me) technology or an unfamiliary code base.

If their is a project with tight deadlines that I successfully implemented and had to work extra, I am going to definitely at least ask for comp time even if they are not in a position to compensate me financially.

If you are an experienced developer and working 60 hours a week and not getting compensated for it and are not able to find another job, it is completely your fault. People who I have seen stuck at a job they didn't like either didn't keep up with technology or didn't develop the soft skills required to make their accomplishments known or to network themselves to a better job.

about two weeks ago
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Should IT Professionals Be Exempt From Overtime Regulations?

Karlt1 And for a contrarian view.... (545 comments)

I like being salaried, I get judged by results and not hours. There have been times that 20 hours worth of work has taken 30 because I was new to the technology, just getting ramped up on code base, wanted to try something new, etc. Would it be fair to get paid time and half because I was learning on the job?

I don't get hours docked if I come in late or leave early because of personal business. I have never gotten push back from a manager if I emailed them and told them I'll be leaving early but I'll make sure I stay on schedule, etc.

There have been days that I knew I wasn't as productive as I should be for a variety of reasons but I would make it up at other times.

So what happens when programmers go hourly? How will our productivity be judged? How will they know we aren't slowing down just to get overtime?

It's always been my experience once I proved myself, that I have the implicit trust of the manager. I give them an honest commitment of how long something will take in hours and they adjust the deadline accordingly. If I underestimate, it's on me to keep my end of the bargain.

If you're in your 20's having to put in 60 hours to get experience and pay your dues so be it. If you're in your 30's and 40's and still putting in 60 hours and you're not getting the pay/equity/bonus to make it worth it -- you're doing it wrong.

about two weeks ago
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Apple DRM Lawsuit Might Be Dismissed: Plaintiffs Didn't Own Affected iPods

Karlt1 Re: Not unexpected. (141 comments)

Login to iTunes on your PC.
You don't have to login to iTunes to rip music from a CD

Login to iTunes on your iPhone using same account.
You don't have to login to iTunes on your phone to sync

Insert CD into PC while iTunes is running (or let it autolaunch) and proceed through the prompts the let it rip the disc.
Find the cable

You don't need to connect your iPhone to the computer for it to sync.
Find the adapter for the cable
Since you didn't need to connect the iPhone to the computer you didn't need an adapter (what adapter?).
Connect your iPhone to your PC and hope that it syncs.
You don't need to connect your phone to your computer
Assuming it has synced, eject the iPhone through iTunes and ONLY through iTunes.

You don't have to eject the phone from iTunes even if you did connect the phone to the computer which you don't have to do.,
Disconnect your iPhone from your PC.
Since you didn't have to connect the phone to the computer you never had to disconnect it.....
Try to find the CD on your iPhone.
Is it that hard to search on your phone?

about two weeks ago

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