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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

I didn't realize that I started this post on Slashdot... looks back.. nope, I didn't post this article.. I merely commented on it. Back up the central thesis or concede.

about an hour ago
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

I don't need to do that... All I need to do is ask you to prove sexual discrimination at wikipedia. If you're going to be myopic and pedantic then I'm going to stone wall you with the demand that you back up your central thesis. Absent that, your argument fails and my response is unnecessary.

price of acting the ass.

3 hours ago
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

Do you actually think your moronic blather is even offensive? Offensively stupid perhaps... Its frankly just sad. You fail to make an argument. You fail to defend a position. You fail to offer an insult that even begins to offend...

Your posts in this thread have thus far been an utter failure.

Learn from your mistakes so that you do not embarrass yourself in the future.

Good day.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

Its just as relevant for the USE of both genders but do women derrive the same satisfaction and interest from CREATING/UPDATING/EDITING wikipedia or any similar entity?

Do women WANT to contribute to something LIKE wikipedia? Do they WANT to create well researched articles for no pay that cover obscure topics that are of interest to them? Are they prepared to have their articles audited, reviewed, questioned, and occasionally challenged? Because any information source MUST be willing to be audited or you could write any old crap into it and it would stay there unchanged forever.

Frankly, I don't think we have a gender problem here. I think we have a cultural problem. And the problem is with much of female culture. Women are not brought up to deal with being challenged in the same way that men are brought up to deal with being challenged. Men are taught to meet challenges head on. They are told that shirking from a challenge is a sign of weakness. It is to be pitied, hated, or treated with disgust. For women, too often they are taught that challenges can be avoided. And as a result, they often do not deal with confrontation very well. Any part of social life where confrontation happens, women tend to do poorly in our society.

If you want to solve much of the gender imbalance, you need to teach girls how to deal with confrontation the way you've taught men to do it for the last EVER. This notion that women can be passive when challenged is a hold over from the time when women were not considered the equals of men. As such, women were to hide under the protection of their men in the event of confrontation. As that is no longer the status quo... women can no longer be passive when challenged. They must respond to the challenge as the challenge is offered. Measure for measure. Blow for blow. If they refuse to do that... then they're not assuming their place as an equal of men but rather regressing into their old social roles. And as such they cannot claim discrimination by men since they have discriminated against themselves.

That is my assessment of this issue over all. Am I absolutely right? I have no idea. But those are my thoughts on the matter. I have often been engaged with a women in a professional setting and had her back off and play the wounded dove when painted into a corner. Her male peers would generally not do that. Is this anecdotal? Obviously. Feel free to strike it from the record if it offends you. I am merely relaying my experiences with this issue. I can get into deep philosophical discussions with men much more easily then I can with women especially if there are disagreements. We might shout at each other. We might call each other names. But in the end, the fencing goes on. And eventually, if both of us hold to a reasonable code of conduct we can expect an honorable resolution to the discussion even if we still do not agree. We will end typically with more respect for the other person if only because they argued well.

Women can and do engage in these sorts of things but many of them have been trained to believe that they can win these discussions by playing their gender card. Contrary to what they believe, they are not winning... they are forfeiting.

You engage or you forfeit by default.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

sure... and I probably won't work at places where I'll get stabbed in the face, my head cut off, my blood drained, and the remains used to invoke a devil worshiping cult's religious rituals....

What you're saying is that any place I choose not work is probably a place where I'll get stabbed in the face, my head cut off, my blood drained, and the remains used to invoke a devil worshiping cult's religious rituals...

Do you seriously not grasp the distinction between correlation and causation? I mean... people harp on about this on slashdot endlessly and still you witless fucktards can't figure it out.

Just because you have correlative data does not mean it automatically proves that data value A1 causes data value A2. Simply saying you have noticed a relationship between the data values doesn't mean you know why they are related.

For example, we could say that all people with cold's have sniffles. Could we then conclude that the sniffles cause colds?

The cause of a cold is a whole ecosystem of varied viruses that tend to impact the population when environmental factors weaken the immune systems of certain demographics of the human population leading to the viruses incubating and spreading by various means throughout the population.

Now could you determine that from you data points that noticed sniffles and the cold tend to go hand in hand? Obviously not. You don't have enough data. Your data isn't structured or analyzed properly to be useful. And finally you have vastly oversimplified everything to play on the pathos of stupid people rather then make any kind of rational argument.

As a result... it is an utter intellectual VOID... of zero value to anyone. This article is not an argument. It is a waste of time that fools only twits that lack a basic understanding of statistics... just to start.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Y'all stop to realize that you're the problem? (527 comments)

That back and forth is fundamental to debate. And women can and must do it as well in any situation where they must establish which of two premises are valid.

I am not defending the name calling. That is a product of anonymity and not having a great deal of respect for your opponent. As a result, people tend to honestly express how they feel about people or at least tend to be uninhibited to express themselves in general.

Regardless, this back and forth is fundemental to the modern world. It is in science. It is in politics. It is in business. It is in everything. You are not going to get anything done with a happy hands around the world attitude. People disagree. And when they disagree they need to resolve their disagreements or come to common understandings. Women are just as willing and able to get nasty if they feel their interests are threatened by someone else. Ask the unpopular girl in high school if girls are nicer then boys. They're just as capable of being vicious, petty, and vindictive. This notion that a female world would be a more peaceful one is a theory based on nothing... much like this article.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

The article in question that we are commenting upon and you are supporting did provide no evidence besides correlative statistics. You personally so far as I have seen have provided literally nothing that could be called evidence which makes it impossible for you to compel me to provide any evidence to counter you.

As to your rather silly repetition of "MRA"... I had to look that up... it is apparently an insult used against anyone attempting to defend men in these overwrought and misguided feminist temper tantrums. In any case, it is at best a bigoted and pejorative term which completely annihilates any claim you might make to being a reasoned, politically correct, polite, or non-bigoted speaker. Aka... you just outed yourself repeatedly as a rather stupid bigot.

So... in the parlance of the internet... GG, twit. Next time you should really consider some impulse control and refrain from using terms that paint you as the very thing you would otherwise be arguing against.

We are done here. Good day.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

Actually I can avoid having to have a burden of proof by taking back all my arguments since you're going to be a pedantic fool on the subject. Once I've taken back all my points, all that is left is yours.

And you have to prove yours or take yours back as well.

Your pathetic line of logic is self defeating. Checkmate.

I am in the position of the defense in this matter. I do not have to even have an argument. I merely have to poke holes in yours. This is the basic of every respected justice system in the world. And a core element of scientific logic.

That you're ignorant of both points speaks very poorly of your education. How old are you? If you're over 10 years old then someone in education did you a disservice.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

You didn't provide evidence. You provided correlative statistics.

Does a runny nose cause as cold or are you a fucking moron?

As to reasoned arguments, they were based on the above mentioned correlative statistics. And you forbade me from offering my own counter arguments thus rendering it impossible to exchange ideas of this nature sans evidence. Which brings us again back to your lack of evidence. Now if you'll accept my ability to make arguments without evidence, I will be happy to engage in with you further on this point so long as I perceive the possibly of good faith on your part. Absent either your willingness to accept an argument without evidence which is hypocritical because that is what you are asking from me... or your unwillingness to engage in good faith... I must simply ask you to provide valid causative evidence or inform you that your argument fails by default.

As to your personal opinions... you'd first have to give a reason why I or anyone else should respect your opinion on anything for me to feel anything one way or another for your views. That is only reasonable.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

Actually it is the end. Because it is actually that simple. It is not my responsibility or society's responsibility to make women want to do things they don't want to do. How many women lumber jacks or fishermen or coal miners or deep sea welders or any of a thousand jobs, hobbies, etc do women not touch with a fifty foot pole? Are we to encourage women to engage in all these things in statistical equilibrium with men? The very idea suggests that rather then statistics helping to organize and enlighten society they are being used as a tool for morons to misunderstand the universe.

We have a free society which means people can choose to do and believe what they want. And guess what... women don't want to be coal miners, lumber jacks, fishermen, or programmers. Men are willing to do it and some of them like it. When women spend the cold nights alone staring into the glowing screen with nothing to keep them company but the hum of caffeine in their veins and an ever growing collection rebellious subroutines... most of them get depressed, frustrated... and quit. Is that a stereotype? Sure. But then why is it called a statistic when you cite something in your favor but when someone cites a counter point it always gets labeled a stereotype? The double logic of that alone should give you pause.

It is to the common good that there is diversity because there are diverse jobs. Some jobs men are happy to do and women are unhappy to do. Some jobs women are happy to do and men are unhappy to do. Stereotype? Of course... but then all statistics are from the opposition's light.

What I would further point out is that it is sexist to view PEOPLE in sexual terms at all times. Its not men or women in these jobs. Its people. Those that work in those jobs are PEOPLE with an aptitude and an interest in those jobs. The PEOPLE not in those jobs tend to either lack the aptitude or the interest. End of argument. If more women want to be programmers... no one is stopping them. They can do it RIGHT NOW. A lot of programmers are entirely independent. Some of them run their own one man companies. Who is stopping any women from doing the same? No one. This is a stupid argument based on correlative not causative data... and is too void of value or meaning to be worth any of our serious time.

It is baseless, vicious, counter productive, ignorant, and generally offensive to any educated or intelligent person. It is a garbage theory, backed up with garbage data, and believed by minds that can't tell the difference between rational arguments and utter trash.

Good day, sir.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

The burden of proof is on you to prove that any such thing exists. Not upon me or males at large to prove they're not guilty.

You cannot simply say that because women do not do a thing that it is because men are creating a hostile environment. Consider fly fishing. How many women do it? Basically none. Is that because men make it unpleasant? No. It is a solitary pursuit. It involves men often alone standing up to their chest in river water. It involves hours upon hours hand tying your own fly lures under a magnifying glass. Alone.

Fly fishing and a good deal of CS work have something in common. Much of it is done alone. And generally speaking women avoid jobs where one does something alone. They like social jobs where they interact with people. Is that a stereotype? Listen, we're not going to get very far if political correctness is used to frustrate the admission of the obvious.

Lets be rational and forthright on the issue putting aside the modern tendency to mistake lapses in political correctness or breaching social taboos for actually having a faulty argument.

For someone to make the argument that women are not represented because they are being suppressed there must be evidence of sexual suppression. And it cannot simply be some contextually voided data set that simply shows women either not participating or a proportionally higher audit rate for women. That would only show correlation and not causation. To demonstrate cause you would have to show that something happened BECAUSE they are women specifically.

Its generally a much more complex and involved question then the rabblerousers that post this sort of thing are willing or able to process properly. And absent that sort of analysis there really is not anything to talk about. It is a void argument absent substantiation. It is merely a baseless conjecture. One that can be countered with any other baseless conjecture leading no where.

I am sure you find my counter point to be either tedious or at least unfulfilling. I can only regret both that you seek such an end to what should be a clean rational discussion... and that whatever its merits that you did not get what you wanted here.

In any case, I bid you good day... please consider the rationality of your arguments in the future least you fall into the allegiance of fallacies in the future.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

What I want is to not have men arbitrarily persecuted by morons with a poor grasp of logic. If women want to participate... nothing is stopping them. Point at something and try to tell me that it discriminates against women.

Try.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

The internet communities in general tilt male.

I increasingly think that people without a background in statistics should be legally forbidden to read them. It merely convinces people they have a point when really they just have data they don't understand. That most people would confuse data with evidence is further proof of my point.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

How can so many people make it through basic public education without understanding this basic premise... "the burden of proof is upon the people making the argument."

No where has any evidence been provided. You have correlative statistics that show women do not participate in some things. That in no way shows that men or anything else caused those numbers to diverge.

In this matter, you or the side you seem to support sits in the seat of the prosecution. Men or the men on the internet sit in the seat of the accused. Judging over both is the unreliable mob and a few educated people that know enough logic to have a rational thought.

The burden of proof is upon thee... not we.

I would be happy to discuss and expound upon this issue at length if you're willing to be amiable and reason about it. But if you're going to be stubborn and pedantic then I will simply say: Prove it.

Absent that... you have nothing. I need provide no counter argument for you to mindlessly belittle. I need offer no research. I need offer nothing what so ever until you have provided proof.

That is what you get for playing the ass. In the future, should you desire a more productive and probing discussion... consider not acting like a jackass.

Good day, sir.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

Your utter intellectual dishonesty and frank stupidity in the concoction of most of your arguments gives me no confidence that we can have a productive discussion on this matter. I regret that you might be offended or worse might feel vindicated by my disinterest in speaking with you further. However, weighing the price of your ignorance against the price of my patience dealing with your simple minded double talk leads me to believe that the best use of my time is to ignore you.

Good day, sir.

yesterday
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Net Neutrality Is 'Marxist,' According To a Koch-Backed Astroturf Group

Karmashock Re:Some versions of it are marxist. (523 comments)

The barriers are not that high. A few hundred thousand in start up capital is all you need to roll out a highly localized network.

one of the ways the big ISPs keep competitors out of the market is by making it a requirement that any competitor commit to cover the same area as the existing ISP. So if I am a new ISP, I am often required not just to wire some small neighborhood and then from there build out slowly... but rather to agree to wire the entire city... and to have the capital on hand to do it. Obviously that isn't reasonable.

Consider the pizza argument again... what if the license to open a SINGLE pizza restaurant in a city included the requirement that you open similar restaurants all over the city where ever Dominos happened to provide service? Would that be reasonable? That is what Comcast is demanding of CenturyLink. They are saying that unless CenturyLink commits to roll out the same area of service as comcast in any area comcast serves, that they should be barred from laying any cable at all.

I'm sorry, but this high barrier for entry equating to monopoly is merely wrong. There are many competitive businesses with a high bar of entry.

Consider that even google is having a hard time entering the ISP business because of these tactics. Do you think google lacks the capital, technical expertise, or managerial skill to run an ISP? Obviously they can. But they're being blocked in many places by anti competitive tactics by existing ISP monopolies.

That is the problem. There is no inherent natural monopoly.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

It never ceases to amuse me that people will cite google links to back up arguments and not actually read any of them.

Some racy pictures of a women holding a fishing rod prove nothing what so ever. And some manual from the 1960s doesn't do much to counter the point that "angling" is generally done ALONE.

In any case, you don't like my pithy and clever response to a rather tired and stupid claim that CS is sexist? Fine. If you are determined to be pig headed and stubborn on the issue... so be it. Such as you deserves nothing more then this simple stone wall...

Prove it.

The argument is first and foremost YOURS to prove. Not mine. I am merely the defense in this matter. You sir, are the prosecution. Unroll your case before us all so we might judge is merits. So far, we've seen some statistics which show no casual link to anything. Merely a correlation between gender and participation. Upon that you cannot hang a conviction for sexism. And absent that you have NOTHING.

So sir, since you are determined to not be reasonable or amiable in this matter... do you have more to offer in this matter? Or can it be assumed that when all is said and done this is all you will ever bring to the table? Because if this is it... the case can only be dismissed in the favor of men... falsely accused by... well... morons.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

Sure, turn the last 4000 years of philosophy on its head and say it is my responsibility to prove you wrong not YOUR responsibility to make a consistent substantiated argument.

What you have is a hypothesis. But it has ZERO evidence. None. Nothing. If I were to say you're a transsexual vampire from mars, it would have literally the same validity as your point... aka none.

So are you a transsexual vampire from mars or do you now understand how utterly baseless your point is here?

Provide evidence. A statistic of non-participation is meaningless. How many women fly fish? Not many. Guess how much sexism there is keeping women from fly fishing? Zero. So you see the problem with automatically concluding that women don't do something because of sexism?

You either understand you're wrong or you're a complete idiot and I have no reason to respect your opinion or worth in discussions more complicated then "what is your favorite color".

No offense... but that is quite literally how stupid this discussion is... I am not offended by the content or nature of the argument. I am rather offended by the utter and obvious stupidity of the people making it. I weep for the human race if we can't as a species and society filter our mental rejects from those with functioning brain stems.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

Women have no trouble participating on facebook or Reddit where you'll find your links and posts deleted or buried for entirely arbitrary reasons.

The burden of proof is upon YOU to prove sexism is the result of anything here. All you have is a statistic with no causative association. You can show correlation, but no causation of ANYTHING in this issue. And absent that you have no evidence of anything. Statistics without a proven causative link are not evidence of ANYTHING. Its just data. No more of relevance then the number of Tuesdays in June.

yesterday
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Why Women Have No Time For Wikipedia

Karmashock Re:Gender imbalance is self selected (527 comments)

Pretty much. There are professions women tend to dominate and there is no crusade to get equality there. There are also low status male jobs that women don't seem interested in doing. Garbage men. Lumberjacks. Fishermen. Coal miners.

Until women are willing to take up these jobs in equal numbers I really have zero patience for their equality crap. They have equality already. They just don't have equal interest or in many cases ability. Deal with it. We're not all the same. Stop whining about it.

yesterday

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