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Prospects Rise For a 2015 UN Climate Deal, But Likely To Be Weak

KeensMustard Re:no hope for political solution (145 comments)

Why should we care about what you think "successful" means?

You've engaged in fallacy. Nobody cares about your feelings. If you can post proof of your numerous assertions, then post it, otherwise your assertions remain in the realm of paranoid delusion. e.g:

First, the evidence for catastrophic anthropogenic global warming is poor. The data sets gets really tenuous once you get further in the past than an actual temperature record (about 150 or so years ago). And actual measurement of global mean temperature is much more recent with satellite measurements. The most important parameter in climatology today, the temperature forcing of a doubling of atmospheric CO2 levels is unknown to at least a factor of 3 (1.5 C per to 4.5 C per is current IPCC estimate).

So essentially you are saying that in fact, the situation could be MUCH WORSE than what is predicted by current models. And this would motivate us to not take action on climate change why?

9 hours ago
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Prospects Rise For a 2015 UN Climate Deal, But Likely To Be Weak

KeensMustard Re:no hope for political solution (145 comments)

Well, you'll never know unless you or one of your buddies actually post some proof, some day.

9 hours ago
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How the World's Agricultural Boom Has Changed CO2 Cycles

KeensMustard Re:Problem? (178 comments)

Apologies.

In my defence I've actually had people use that argument in all seriousness. Satire becomes reality.

10 hours ago
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Prospects Rise For a 2015 UN Climate Deal, But Likely To Be Weak

KeensMustard Re:no hope for political solution (145 comments)

Well, since you are being the judge of 'successful,' I'm not surprised you've never seen that.

I'm using fairly standard criteria - said criteria being based your ability to provide verifiable proof of your assertions. What did you think? That mere rhetoric would convince us?

yesterday
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Harvard Scientists Say It's Time To Start Thinking About Engineering the Climate

KeensMustard Re:Optimum Temperature (360 comments)

Thanks. I'm familiar with the geographical location of antarctica during the cretaceous. You will of course be aware that climate conditions in the southern hemisphere below the mid temperate region is mostly driven by the strength of winds circulating around antarctica, but also that this was not the case during the cretaceous because antarctica was not surrounded by open sea at the time. So your remarks are alluding to climatic conditions that we will not see again unless you push another continent into antarctica and disrupt that pattern. Again, what is your plan to do so?

Also please address the rest of my post.

yesterday
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How the World's Agricultural Boom Has Changed CO2 Cycles

KeensMustard Re:I have a different take (178 comments)

"What it points to" is that we know slightly more than "fuck all" about the climate

Perhaps you don't. Ignorance on your part doesn't imply the rest of us are ignorant. In any way.

yesterday
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How the World's Agricultural Boom Has Changed CO2 Cycles

KeensMustard Re:The Science is Settled (178 comments)

There's a bunch of people claiming that the science isn't settled, that the models aren't good enough, blah blah.

For some reason that is never fully explained they have knowledge enough to confidently dismiss the science, but aren't capabe of doing the science itself. So other people have to do that science for them. People who (quite rightly) are paid for their efforts.

So we'll have to keep pouring money into more research. Unless you think those concerns are not legitimate.

yesterday
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How the World's Agricultural Boom Has Changed CO2 Cycles

KeensMustard Re:Problem? (178 comments)

Are you oafishly trying to say that AGW is unfalsiable? If that is your assertion, then state that clearly - and then prove it.

yesterday
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How the World's Agricultural Boom Has Changed CO2 Cycles

KeensMustard Re:Problem? (178 comments)

Having models able correlate to observed temperature is certainly advantageous. Because if what you say is true and models can't be made to correlate to the observed temperature, then we have no mechanism to describe the impact our emissions will have on the climate, and are forced to mitigate against the worst possible case: violent swings, snowball earth, runaway venus type scenarios. This would be far more costly than merely mitigating to the timeframe suggested by our models.

yesterday
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Prospects Rise For a 2015 UN Climate Deal, But Likely To Be Weak

KeensMustard Re:no hope for political solution (145 comments)

Actually it's the politicians who don't want it.

I've never met anyone who can argue successfully against action on climate in an open debate. The whole denialist movement is merely a desperate papering over of the fact that a small number of people don't want to do anything about climate change.

Why?

Well, generally they can't even articulate that.

Very few people actually fall into this category, fewer still sincerely believe that rhetoric, the problem with dissonance is that it is hard to keep straight in your mind. So in an open debate, denialism always loses.

Not that this is a problem for politicians, they are well versed in the art of not engaging in open debate, and lie sufficiently well that they can pretend to take action, and at the same time make sure that the short term interests of their fossil fuel industry patrons are protected.

2 days ago
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Harvard Scientists Say It's Time To Start Thinking About Engineering the Climate

KeensMustard Re:Optimum Temperature (360 comments)

Not to poor rain on your parade, but 100 million years ago, Antarctica will still breaking off from Gondwana. Can you briefly outline your strategy for engineering some speedy continental drift to rebuild the super continent (and thus, properly replicate the climatic conditions of the time)? What are the legal ramifications of ramming several continents together? Any engineering challenges to overcome?

Also, with reference to your proposal to grow (and then presumably eat) lush rainforests, I stand to be corrected here, but the bark of the antarctic beech, whilst undoubtedly quite tasty, is probably not nutritious enough to feed 10 billion people and thus, won't really be a good replacement for our current cereal crops (wheat, rice, barley). Crop specifically adapted to growing in temperate regions with their stubborn declination. Crops that tend not to grow on the rock that lies under the (fast melting) antarctic ice sheet.

4 days ago
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Lunar Mission One Proposes To Take Core Sample, Plant Time Capsule On the Moon

KeensMustard Odd Summary (69 comments)

The U.S. may have foresworn the moon,

Aguable. Presuming that more samples of moon material was required, then a probe could be sent to get it, no? So what is missing is rather the reason to make the moon a target, rather than somewhere notionally more interesting as a starting point.

the venue of its greatest space triumph during the Apollo program,

Arguable. What about Cassini? Voyager? The Mars Rovers?

about a week ago
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The Strangeness of the Mars One Project

KeensMustard Re: Cart not just before the horse (246 comments)

I'm going to assume that until someone clearly describes what those "things" are, that they are probably things better done by robots, given the otherwise clear and demonstrated advantage to robots.

about two weeks ago
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The Strangeness of the Mars One Project

KeensMustard Re: Cart not just before the horse (246 comments)

for the same reason you don't kill yourself and get replaced with a robot drone?

No.

surely a cheap one is capable of performing all the "important" things you do

Non sequitur (per above)

about two weeks ago
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Rosetta's Philae Probe To Land On Comet Tomorrow

KeensMustard We're landing on a comet (74 comments)

I guess there is no real objective measure of what constitutes the peak of human achievement in space. But this has to be up there with the best of them. Go you good thing!

about two weeks ago
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The Strangeness of the Mars One Project

KeensMustard Re:It's a scam (246 comments)

This is merely empty.

I put it to you that a Mars colony, to be justifiable, must be justifiable on objective grounds. There are lot's of goofy ideas. Hence the popsicle skyscraper. "Because we want to", "because it's there" justify all goofy ideas equally.

about two weeks ago
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The Strangeness of the Mars One Project

KeensMustard Re:Uh, simple (246 comments)

So in essence, a simple tear in your suit on Mars means you have 60 seconds to live. Sounds like a life we can all aspire to.

If you are outside, there will be a brief, desperate struggle to apply a patch to the tear, if it is small enough and you can reach it (unlikely), and you haven't fallen down a hole and lying stunned or unconscious.

Consequently few, if any, excursions would occur outside of the pressurised habitat on Mars.

about two weeks ago
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The Strangeness of the Mars One Project

KeensMustard Re:It's a scam (246 comments)

Reductio ad absurdum? C'mon, you're better than that. Anything can be made to look goofy if taken to extremes. Put a little more effort in your arguments, please.

Honestly speaking: These proposals for a Mars colony *are* goofy. They *are* extreme.

about two weeks ago
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The Strangeness of the Mars One Project

KeensMustard Re:Uh, simple (246 comments)

Given that you yourself are making similarly baseless assertions based on confirmation biases, I find the solidity of your arguments to be in question.

Rather than address my assertions, you attempt a burden of proof fallacy. If you think my assertion: The gravity on Mars is such that a stay there of any duration (say, 12 earth months) will mean returning to earth will kill you. There won't be any return trips. is incorrect, then say so. Don't wave your hands over it.

Rather than handwave about how long haul mining and aluminum smelting somehow instantly kills people doing it, (a proposition that would mean that the aluminium cans used to ship soda are made in a process that systemically ends human lives, which is an absurdity in itself- There are industrial accidents and risks of exposure, yes-- but more people die in car crashes and from inhaling carbon monoxide from faulty domestic heaters than die in smelter related incidents-- which is a statement that can be supported on demand with actual statistics, collected by real social scientists.)

Learn to read.

So please, if you are holding out on some actually substantive basis for your condemnation, by all means, share it with the rest of the class.

By which you mean, the one person. By my reckoning, there are 200000 people with enough belief in a mars colony to put money on it. That is a vanishingly small group. You won't get there without convincing the other 8 000 000 000 of us that such an idea has merit. So convince us.

about two weeks ago
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The Strangeness of the Mars One Project

KeensMustard Re:Uh, simple (246 comments)

You know. I tried to write a calm, and sensible reply to this poisoned barb you have thrown at me, and I just couldn't do it.

The fact that you engage with this discussion emotionally and respond with a long, rambling and self-contradictory screed should signal to you that your view of mars colonisation is based on emotion rather than reason. I have no reason to respect the subjective demands of your emotions above the objective concerns that arise from reason. It's up to you to make a convincing argument. If you are not prepared for the rigours associated with other people questioning your beliefs, then you should not publically express them until you ARE ready to debate calmly.

1) You make the mistake in asserting that people leaving earth as political asylum seekers would be doing so without something already being there. Even the puritans didnt leave england en-mass until AFTER the colonies in north america were fully settled and productive. --What you are are failing to grasp, is that there would not be such a place to go, if nobody makes the damned colony; The puritans would never have left england, because the colonists never would have preceded them. Did all the irish people fleeing ireland after the potato fammine come with metric fucktons of food and other things? No-- they sold themselves into indentured servitude to come here, with just the clothes on their backs. Why? because there was a means of producing food over here already.

I put it to you that YOU are making that mistake. There is nothing on Mars. Therefore, by your own admittance, Mars is unsuitable for colonisation. By your own admittance, we've never successfully implemented the strategy you advocate, even on earth, with it's comparative wealth of resources and freedom of movement. Why should I believe that such a plan could be successful on Mars?

There is nothing inconsistent with wishing to create a colony, with the intention of permitting political asylum once it is able to accept such persons.

It follows then, that we could also create such a colony on earth.

As bad as things are for us in the west at the moment, things are far worse for others.Therefore when considering the need to establish a refuge for those seeking political asylum our minds turn to those who currently seek political asylum with us and under our (certainly flawed) democratic system. How do these people seek asylum on Mars? How do the Karen, the Tamil, the Hazara, the Uighur people get passage to Mars?

If you understand the means to create a fair and just society then by all means express those principles. I think you don't. I think you want to merely repeat the mistakes of the past, where people fled oppression with a view to creating a fair and just society, and inevitably ended in oppression once more.

about two weeks ago

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