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Off the Florida Coast, Astronauts Train For Asteroid Mission

KeensMustard Re:Send a robot (82 comments)

Best estimates put this at 15000 years ago. Again, what evidence is there that this triggered a cultural evolution?

I was referring to the more recent settling by Europeans, thus the comment about "first emptying them of their former occupants."

Then it could hardly be considered "settlement". We might more accurately call it "annexation", "genocide" (in the south), "real estate fraud", "failure to comply with treaties", amongst other things. And none of those things is at all like constructing a habitat for humans in space. For one thing, there were humans there already, and air, and gravity, and soil, and game, and reasonable levels of radiation. The Europeans who travelled to America did so on the understanding that there was lot's of free stuff, a big land where they could build a house and/or make money. They didn't go there expecting to live in a tiny box, surrounded by vacuum and blasted by radiation. They would think of those environs as a prison - as would any sensible person who had to endure it for more than a few months.

If you want to go into space, that's fine, you and your mates are welcome to fund it, just don't interfere with the funds we need to explore (using robots). And don't imagine it is like Star Trek, it is not like Star Trek.

It's not like star trek. Robots are even less like star trek.

?? That doesn't even make sense.

7 hours ago
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Australian Government Moving Forward With Anti-Piracy Mandate For ISPs

KeensMustard Re:Australia Deserves it. (124 comments)

So let's summarise: You admit that your sidearm will not help you protect your liberties. You claimed you could say whatever you wanted, whenever you wanted. You boasted about killing cops and having your mates pervert the course of justice for you. When pressed about this, you suddenly changed your mind and claimed to be straight up and law abiding. "No need to worry about ME saying the wrong thing - no sir! Clean your boots for you sir?"

For some reason you thought that implying that i like distended anuses would make me feel insulted.

You are the reason that America is under tyranny. You guys who fantasise about being cold-blooded killers and vigilantes, but when challenged, you roll over and urinate on yourselves like beaten curs. Do you even have a gun? Have you ever, even once, stood up for what is right?

yesterday
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Off the Florida Coast, Astronauts Train For Asteroid Mission

KeensMustard Re:Send a robot (82 comments)

The settling of the Americas counts.

Best estimates put this at 15000 years ago. Again, what evidence is there that this triggered a cultural evolution?

In the event of a very large rock heading our way, there isn't much to do about it - neither robots nor humans are currently capable of diverting it. One way or another, a lot of people are going to die.

As I already pointed out, even at the moment of impact, the Earth will be more habitable than Mars is. And Mars is more hospitable than, say Mercury, or Neptune, or the moons around Jupiter. In other words - at the exact moment that the asteroid hits, the earth will still be a nicer place than anywhere else in the Solar System.

If you want to go into space, that's fine, you and your mates are welcome to fund it, just don't interfere with the funds we need to explore (using robots). And don't imagine it is like Star Trek, it is not like Star Trek.

yesterday
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The Hobbit: the Battle of Five Armies Trailer Released

KeensMustard Not looking good (145 comments)

One of the better features of The Hobbit (or There and Back Again) is that Bilbo is knocked unconcious at the beginning of the battle of the 5 armies. And since the story is written from his perspective (or he wrote it) there is virtually no dewcription of the battle itself. SO I was hopeful that we would not be subjected to yet another boilerplate over the top battle scene where actually fearsome creatures (trolls, wargs) repeatedly fail to kill their enemy and participants appear to be able to defy the laws of physics. I mean, for Manwes sake: if i wanted to see acrobats I'd go to the circus. Actual character exposition appears ot be confined to clumsy dialogue. Apparently there is no screen time for visual exposition on the change in Bilbo from comfortable, insular shire hobbit to a slightly amoral but very plucky thief. Instead he (bilbo) needs to convey this through long, confessional speeches with the dwarves, whilst 2 dimensional elves do stupid things.

yesterday
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Australian Government Moving Forward With Anti-Piracy Mandate For ISPs

KeensMustard Re:Australia Deserves it. (124 comments)

Well, you always try www.rsvp.com.au they might have the cure for what ails ya.

yesterday
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Off the Florida Coast, Astronauts Train For Asteroid Mission

KeensMustard Re:Send a robot (82 comments)

I didn't say everyone goes to Mars. Just enough to get a sustainable population of people to sit around looking smug. The vast majority of humans on earth will still die off - a few in the impact event, a lot more in the collapse of agriculture that follows. It'll take centuries to rebuild.

Yes. A plan which involves billions of people dying unnecessarily seems, well, not like a good plan. Good thing that nobody would ever agree to such an insane plan.

Or do you want the real reason?

I'd like a real reason, but I'm not holding my breath.

Because it's there.

That's not a reason. That's like saying: "We should build a popsicle skyscraper - because we can!" It's nonsense.

ook at what has come about in previous ages of exploration - social experiments, new models of society. There's no land left on this planet worth settling.

The last real attempt at settlement was Greenland and prior to that 10000 years or more ago. On what are you basing your assertion that this was an a time of social expansion (more than say, the Enlightment, or Pax Romana)?

yesterday
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Off the Florida Coast, Astronauts Train For Asteroid Mission

KeensMustard Re:Send a robot (82 comments)

Basically, we're screwed

No, we're not.

There has only been one significant imapct event in the Earth's history, which is the one that created the moon. The rest have ben relatively minor - a danger for life at the time, but not dangerous to us, with our ability to adapt, tunnel and otherwise mitigate the dangers associated with abrupt climate change. At no point since the moon calved off has the earth been less habitable than mars.

And as time passes the danger of imapct diminishes, since Jupiter is doing a great job sweeping the inner solar system clean of likely debris - thanks big guy! The sun is now middle aged - chances are we will never be hit by anything likely to make us extinct.

Better to go colonise Mars while we can, or else set up some long-term bunkers deep underground with enough food supplies and nuclear-powered grow-lights to last until the atmosphere clears.

Well, we don't have lift capacity to lift 9 billion or so humans, plus all the other life forms to Mars - plus the obvious disadvantage that if we move there, we can never come back, and even on the worst day the Earth is more habitable than Mars will ever be. So the other option is looking like the viable one.

2 days ago
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Off the Florida Coast, Astronauts Train For Asteroid Mission

KeensMustard Re:Send a robot (82 comments)

Well, you certainly wouldn't try a nuclear bomb, that would hardly have any delta V at all. And if a robotic mission is not going to work, sending a human certainly won't. What are they going to do - push it with their arms?

2 days ago
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Off the Florida Coast, Astronauts Train For Asteroid Mission

KeensMustard Re:Send a robot (82 comments)

When it is discovered, there will follow a final chorus of 'I told you so.'

- from the people who wanted to invest in robotic missions, because if we had done that, then the big rock could have easily been diverted using an advanced robotic mission.

2 days ago
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Australian Government Moving Forward With Anti-Piracy Mandate For ISPs

KeensMustard Re:Australia Deserves it. (124 comments)

Yes, as a matter of fact I am law abiding.

Well, for now at least. But I guess that the idea of shooting a police officer gives you an erection - does it not? And the mention of the wife's ex-husband, do you feel a surge of pleasure in your genitals at the thought of pointing a gun at him? Does the idea of evening the odds make you want to masturbate?

And do you act out these fantasies? Do you seek out those special places on the web for people with your dark pleasures?

Do ever you post similar diatribes on facebook, blaming women for your loneliness and absent sex life? Ever talk about shooting up your school?

2 days ago
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Australian Government Moving Forward With Anti-Piracy Mandate For ISPs

KeensMustard Re:Australia Deserves it. (124 comments)

Works good for committing home intrusions, car jacking, keeping the ex-wifes husband away, and any previous criminal associates polite and on point. Not much different than rattlesnakes, skunks and badgers, nothing ever really changes.

Fixed.

The fact is I DO say anything I want to to anyone. I always have. I know you are itching to pull out the bit about shouting " fire" in a crowded theater, but that actually constitutes a criminal attack and not free speech at all.I do have free speech, how I use it is no different than how I use a car, a hammer or a weapon, all of which I am free to use as well.

Yes, you are a real law abiding thug aren't you. You didn't choose the whiteboy thuglife, the whiteboy thuglife chose you. You can say what you want, when you want - provided the what and when are on the list of permissable places and times set by the government. You're a real icon of liberty!

Knowing full well that police are just as able as any human to commit atrocities, they too may be put down. Granted, it may provide a sticky situation and legal entanglements, but in the right situation I would just as easily shoot a cop as a crackhead with a knife and bad intent.

Yes, I'm very turned on by your display of suburban badassery. You're the king of the thugs in my mind. Or perhaps you just look and sound like an idiot. Should I call you keazy? Are you gunna get your cinna on at the cinnabon?.

Being in the right ,I would face a trial by a jury of my peers and be vindicated, so you can stuff your knee-jerk pissant talking points up your urethra.

If you self description is accurate your peers are going to be low order drug mules, prostitutes, drug addicts and/or thug wannabees with hoodies and chains on their wallets. Somehow I don't see them turning up to court (unless in the dock). Likely too moronic to find their way down the street.

Perhaps it would serve you better to know what the hell you are talking about before jealously rationalizing your impotence to demand your right from your own dictatorial government.

This from the guy who admitted freely that his firearm is useless for defending his liberty and in fact his main purpose for keeping it was to threaten others and fantasise about shooting cops. You'll excuse me if I'm not inclined to take civic lessons from you.

2 days ago
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Australian Government Moving Forward With Anti-Piracy Mandate For ISPs

KeensMustard Re:Australia Deserves it. (124 comments)

A right would be pointless if there were never an occasion to use it. So far the existence of the right has made an environment where its exercise has not yet been necessary.It serves the people well.

Sounds like someone sold you a rock that keeps bears away, and consequently you are sure that there can be no bears regardless of people pointing out bears on the street, in your garden, rifling through your trash.

I personally like living in a place where I can say what I choose, right or wrong, to anyone, anytime without fear of repercussions based on their office, class, religion, ethnicity and if there is; I can sue the pants off them in court and make a public spectacle of them. I notice this right gets plenty of exercise.

You can't say what you like, to anyone at anytime. You probably never had that right, you certainly don't now. You just choose a subset of topics to discuss, to a subset of people, in a subset of times and places. Your own personal 'Free Speech Zone'. You are deluding yourself. Wake Up!

And lastly can I just point out how useless your firearm is for defending your rights: If you point your firearm at an official or member of law enforcement, you will be arrested and thrown into prison. Most likely, you will go to prison for longer that *I* would, were I to do the same thing in Australia, because despite other insanities, our sentencing laws are sane and our judicial system relatively free from corruption, whereas yours is utterly insane and utterly corrupt, and if you go to prison in the US you will stay there, stuck in the system for the rest of your life. So - what's the use of your firearm? Who are you going to point it at - tyrannical rabbits?

4 days ago
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Finding Life In Space By Looking For Extraterrestrial Pollution

KeensMustard Advanced? (95 comments)

Would an advanced race actually do something so illogical?

In what other ways are we assuming alien life is like us?

about a week ago
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NASA: Lunar Pits and Caves Could House Astronauts

KeensMustard Re:Glass half-empty (157 comments)

Not sure why you decided to quote half a sentence, instead of the whole sentence, unless you wanted to burn a strawman by quoting me out of context to change the meaning of what I said. If you have some other intent, then I'm all ears.

What I said was:

To suggest that we, ill adapted to space as we are, ought to go physically into space instead of sending a machine is absurd - like saying that a field is only plowed if dug by hand, or the only correct calculation is done without the aid of a computer, calculator or abacus.

This is in response to the OP's assertion that the boundaries of our push into space are actually defined by how far our physical bodies have travelled - which is an absurdity. To suggest that the discoveries of Voyager, Pioneer, Spirit and Opportunity, Cassini/Huygens are somehow trivial because they didn't happen to contain any meat is deeply insulting: insulting to us as humans. The presence of meat, or lack thereof is an arbitrary scale for judging achievement. If you don't think this scale is arbitrary, if you don't think the O.P's comment was absurd, then explain why. Don't burn strawman.

about two weeks ago
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NASA: Lunar Pits and Caves Could House Astronauts

KeensMustard Re:Glass half-empty (157 comments)

It's not embarrassing to apply machines as all.... as you say,

I would like to fly to New York...

Or...

.

I would like to travel into space.

That's what I said.

The fact that we are ill adapted to survive in space should be no more of a justification that we shouldn't go there than the fact that we are unable to fly without machines should be a justification to never get into an aircraft.

That's what I said. Just because our physical limitations prevent us from bodily travelling any significant distance through space, doesn't mean that we should not go further than those physical limitations practically allow. We just need to accept that, like ploughing is best performed by machines, so travelling in space is best done by machines. Thus: the term "we travelled to Jupiter" or "we landed on Titan" does not imply that our physical bodies are located near Jupiter nor on Titan, anymore than saying "I ploughed my field" implies that I did so with your hands, or saying "I flew to New York" requires me to have flown there using my arms.

Really.... did I have to explain this twice?

You didn't need to explain it at all. I have a clear memory of what I said.

about two weeks ago
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NASA: Lunar Pits and Caves Could House Astronauts

KeensMustard Re:Glass half-empty (157 comments)

You complain about strawmen, then string together a strawman of your own. Nobody is suggesting that humans need to travel to Titan.

Except for the OP whose views you irrationally decided to defend, despite (apparently) not agreeing with them. Here the OP said (quote) The next manned lunar landing will not be so much for scientific exploration there as much as to start laying the foundations for stepping further into space. implying that our efforts stepping further into space: New Horizons, Voyager, Cassini Huygens, travelling to Pluto, Mercury, Jupiter, Titan - even to the edges of the solar system itself somehow don't count as "stepping into space". What an absurdity.

Your statement was absurd, and my parody illustrated it's absurdity. Our unsuitability to space is entirely irrelevant. You're right in pointing out that there are many aspects of space exploration which are best done by machines; you're completely wrong when you take that idea and present it as an absolute for why no human should ever go into space.

Thanks again for burning the strawman.

about two weeks ago
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NASA: Lunar Pits and Caves Could House Astronauts

KeensMustard Re:Glass half-empty (157 comments)

But who is suggesting that? Sounds to me like a subtle strawman. The distinction between a robot landing on Titan and a robot which contains a human is arbitrary.

Rather than focus on arbitrary distinctions, we ought to focus on non-arbitrary distinctions i.e. the gap in capability between human bodies and robots. In space, robots are far more capable than human bodies - to the extent that humans rely entirely on machines to survive.

I don't see why it's embarrassing or unsatisfactory to apply a machine to achieve a particular purpose e.g.

I need to plow my field,

I would like to fly to New York,

I need to write an essay

We use machines all the time. Therefore, why did we decide we needed to arbitrarily send human bodies into space, rather than use a machine to explore, unburdened by lumps of flesh? How would carting a lump of flesh to Titan, for example, have enabled Huygens to explore it more?

about two weeks ago
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NASA: Lunar Pits and Caves Could House Astronauts

KeensMustard Re:retarded nostalgia ... is lying. (157 comments)

Actually, it's been the convention in Indo-European languages for a millennium or so; in fact, the structure of many of these allows for no other choice (Slavic languages, German, French etc.), and many English speakers - if not most - are L2 speakers for which this is the most compatible and the only natural alternative (the "uncanny valley" subproblem of interference in interlanguage fossilization).

Well, thanks for the history lesson, but the fact of the matter is, the use of "he" as the gender neutral pronoun fell out of common usage some time ago. Using it in a modern context or to refer to future events, creates a confusion : are you referring to a known male astronaut? Are you assuming that the astronaut will be male? Or are you (for whatever reason) using a language convention from prior the 1960's? English has always had a gender neutral pronoun (Churchyard et. al.) and therefore the use of the male pronoun to describe a person of undetermined gender was merely the convention for a number of years, until it became common practice and convention to use "they" in the singular, or other constructs.

As a bonus, with the rapidly increasing number of perceived and recognized psychological genders (not the linguistic ones) on the very short timescale of the few recent decades, there's no need to rewrite texts and textbooks (considering that the purpose of written texts is to span not only vast amounts of space but of time as well);

Get over it.

English is evolving, it always has. That's the nature of it, and indeed, one of the primary reasons why it has been so successful. If I read Shakespeare I see many conventions, words and artifacts which initially cause confusion until I read it in the context of the time - the same applies to Austen or Salinger. It has always been this way. Pronouns fall in and out of use: use of 'he' as the gender neutral pronoun is in the latter category.

one could easily argue that "improvements" of limited scope such as your "he or she", while attempting to sound inclusive (for whatever strange reason some people might perceive it that way) are, for example, distinctly interphobic - which, again, would be a social construct with limited longevity compared to the potential timelessness of any written text.

One could argue that, but not logically. The use of "they" as a singular, or "the astronaut" avoids confusion and doesn't require us to assign gender to someone who is not of that gender. It's not too hard: I notice you yourself in your reply referred to a person of undetermined gender (the offended/perceiving party above) in gender neutral terms without any loss of meaning or the need to adopt an awkward structure.

So humans won't be able to repair them, because you're not going to send them, and you're arguing the case for machines repairing themselves is equally bad? So what *is* your proposed solution? The "disposable camera" model? That really doesn't scale very well.

I'm arguing that we are always going to send a machine. The machine(s) will always be the larger part of what we send, whether it be a spacecraft designed to sustain humans for as long as possible in the vacuum of space, landing craft, spacesuits. So the choice is whether we send a human as well as the machine(s). Of this technology stack, the least reliable part is the human. So if we are going to be concerned about repairs, our first thought is - how repairable and reliable is the human? The answer is: Not very. Human bodies degenerate if left in low gravity for any period of time. They react badly to changes in pressure and have a narrow range of operating temperature. They need very specific fuels, which are bulky and cumbersome, and easily contaminated. Humans are social, and perform suboptimally outside of a social setting. They tend to change priorities based on feedback from the amygdala, leading to a lack of mission determinism.

Comparatively speaking, robots are simple, designed for the target environment and therefore very reliable.

On average: in a realistic scenario involving a human and a robot in space it's the human that will need repair, not the robot.

(It is also interesting to observe how the "notoriously unreliable" human body of yours actually deals with some space-related conditions such as moderately intense radiation actually better than the majority of our technology, which is prone to hard errors, and if scaled to the cognitive capacity of the human brain would fare even worse.)

Now i think you are being faintly ridiculous. Space related conditions:

Vacuum: will kill me almost instantly, unless some kind of machine forms a protective vessel around me.

Lack of water: Will kill me within about 5 (earth) days, unless a machine supplies me with water

Lack of food: WIll kill me in under a month, unless a machine supplies it to me, processing. refrigerating and heating it for my consumption

Radiation: Will kill me in 12 months, unless a machine deflects that radiation

Lack of gravity: will kill me in 24 months, no known solution at this stage.

If machines are so unreliable and can't handle the stresses of space how do we get to space at all?

about two weeks ago
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NASA: Lunar Pits and Caves Could House Astronauts

KeensMustard Re:retarded nostalgia ... is lying. (157 comments)

I'm a speaker of an Indo-European language; do the math.

Alternatively, you could just clarify what you meant: maybe you didn't consider the possibility that the astronaut could be female or transgender. Or possibly you were using 'he' as the gender neutral pronoun - which hasn't been the convention in most english speaking countries for many years.

Regarding the rest, well, then replace the geologists with mission planners of any other kind, capable of deciding into which rock the machine should poke next time.

Or send a machine which avoids the need to choose which rock get's "poked".

Or devise a way to make the machines maintain themselves far away from Earth, because that's another thing humans would be able to provide on site and current technology doesn't.

Given the human body is notoriously unreliable and can only self repair minor injuries, I don't think the 'self repair' option is really viable either.

about two weeks ago
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NASA: Lunar Pits and Caves Could House Astronauts

KeensMustard Re:retarded nostalgia ... is lying. (157 comments)

Except that you assume the geologist wouldn't have top-notch tools on his hands. Of course he would, just like the rover - but on top of that, he'd have his human brain on site, and not twenty minutes away. Gets even worse for outer planets.

He or she, I assume you mean.

In any case, I don't see why the brain would pose any advantage. Much of the geologists brain is taken up with irrelevant information - recipes, techniques for identifying a ripe rockmelon, political views, emotions concerning her family connections, etc. The learned geology is mostly useless and likely to be a liability: minerals on an asteroid haven't been through the same processes as minerals on earth so they aren't likely to be in a familiar pattern - even assuming the geologist can identify any familiar pattern with the sun casting deep contrast on the surface of the asteroid, or by the faint light of a headlight that fails to pierce the fogs of Titans deadly atmosphere. And then there is the amygdala - telling the geologist to run, when running on the surface of the asteroid would lead to certain death, or the image processing failing to pick up an obvious (but not visible) danger due to over-reliance on signals in the visible wavelength.

No, the brain is likely to be a liability in many circumstances. It is very good at what it does on earth - identifying dangers, abstracting things, feeling emotion, recalling and composing stories. But those earthly experiences will mostly not apply in the vacuum of space, making them a liability.

about two weeks ago

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