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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

I have to note that when the employee's views are different from that of an employer, said employee is fired, not executed - he is free to seek out employment in a different company, and to publicly express opinions, even strongly negative, on his former employer. At worst, he can be sued for libel, but that will only work if his claims can be shown to be clearly harmful and false in the court, based on available evidence (and with a presumption of innocence).

And I understand the aspect entirely, but that was precisely my point: this is a fundamental difference in core principles between our societies, which seems to be irreconcilable. To any westerner, the notion that a person can have a death sentence on their head for writing a book critical of some religion is clearly barbaric, regardless of which religion that is - even if it's the one that the person practices themselves.

Precisely. And if you look at the concepts of Islam (and every other major religion), our lives do not end here. This is just a very small portion of our life (as per Quran, just a day or even less), and we will live forever in heaven or hell, wherever Allah decides to send us. So, even if that person is executed, he's just "fired" from this world, and he's going to meet his Lord soon. (FYI, the sentence can only be given in a court of law by a state judge, an average Joe or any other scholar, no matter how big he is, has no right to declare anyone a murtad and urge people to kill him)

As for the anti-Islam books, we don't take the book as something that's just against some religion. It is considered the final religion of the Creator and the Truth. So any thing, whether it be a book or a group, that attacks its foundations (including the Prophet PBUH) is considered a lie against Allah and is dealt with according to Quran and Hadith.

So, from that perspective, we see the societies that have such laws as obviously less developed and backwards (since we had similar harsh laws in our own past, but got rid of them as our philosophical perspective on society, politics and human rights evolved). Even more so, when we see a country which did not have such laws acquire them - as is the case for Pakistan, which did not have Sharia-based legislation until Islamization in 1970s - we see it as a country slipping back from the path of progress into the dark ages.

And we have exactly opposite views of the West, as we see them as people going back to the dark ages, just like it's mentioned in the Quran. It's a total contrast, and I guess we'll find out who was right and who was wrong on the day of judgement. If there is no day of judgement and no Allah, oh well, not much will be lost any way, but if there is Allah and the day of judgement ... Allah help us all and grant His mercy on all of us.

about a year ago
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

I've never heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, but Salman Rushdie is considered an apostate by most of muslims because of his books and his ideologies. Try to understand it from this aspect:

This is what Allah, the sole Creator and Owner of this universe, has decreed upon us. He has categorically said that while He's "Ghafoor-ur-Raheem" (Most Benevolent, Most Merciful), He's also "Shadeed-ul-Iqab" (Severe in punishment). How can a creation like something if the Creator abhors it? As a crude example (and a very simplistic one at that), if an employee's views are different than that of an employer, he won't be in that company for long.

about a year ago
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

So I finally had a chance to get hold of a scholar and ask him about it. A murtad (apostate) is defined as someone who not only rejects religion but conspires against it, and that is considered as treason. Hence the reason why the punishment of treason is either life imprisonment or death penalty (difference of opinion among scholars) for a murtad. It does not apply to someone who simply leaves religion. As long as he is peaceful, his matters are between him and Allah alone. I hope that answers your question.

about a year ago
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Why Does Windows Have Terrible Battery Life?

ashvagan Re:Easy one... (558 comments)

A friend of mine compiled windows too during our first year in college ('98). He basically sorted all files in C:\Windows folder, putting all exes in one folder, all dat in another folder, all ini in another folder and so on. Then he recompiled (i.e. rebooted) the OS and VOILA!, we got a call from him saying his Windows is not working.

about a year ago
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

I apologise, but I didn't have a chance to get this verified because of Eid, it is on my to-do list though for sure. I'm going to ask a scholar at ISNA Canada, so you can find out for yourself what madhab they belong to. I guess it's Sunni Islam (if you must identify it).

As far as the explanation you have written goes, I find it weak too. There are numerous mentions everywhere that state that even at the time of Muhammad (PBUH), there were hypocrites who did not truly believe in Islam and Allah, and falsely admitted that they were muslims when they were in the company of other muslims. Here is one of the many examples from Surat Al-Munfiqn (The Hypocrites):

63:1 When the hypocrites come to you, [O Muhammad], they say, "We testify that you are the Messenger of Allah ." And Allah knows that you are His Messenger, and Allah testifies that the hypocrites are liars.

1 year,2 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

Again, it is not for me or anyone else to decide who is a Muslim and who is not, and that is a big problem here. Every Tom Dick and Harry thinks he is qualified enough to pass judgements on other people's morals (Muslims on other muslim sects, christians on muslims, muslims on christians, atheists on all religions, all religions on atheists). However, what we can identify as wrong are characteristics that are wrong, e.g., worshipping a moon is wrong, abusing every other religion is wrong etc. etc. That is the major basic reason why our world is in such a cute mess.

I will get back to you on apostasy after consulting someone way more knowledgable than I am, as I may not have enough information.

1 year,8 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Human rights. (537 comments)

May be I am, but someone who holds and references Wikipedia as something authentic on such issues have some serious problem finding the right answers. I asked you to give me a reference from Quran and Ahadith, not from Wikipedia.

1 year,8 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Human rights. (537 comments)

Please provide some kind of reference on your claim before blaming others of confusion and lies.

1 year,8 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

Oh and about the Chechen Salafis issue, I can point out that they, Al-Qaeda and all these niche groups with their odd ideologies neither make up majority of the muslims, nor they are considered part of main stream Islam.

There are some (tiny) sects that have really messed up concepts, e.g., Allah came down in the form of a human being and walked on the face of earth (and that human being happened to be their leader), Allah was supposed to send down Quran to someone else, but the angel had his own agendas, so he delivered it to Muhammad (PBUH) etc. etc.

I'm not saying anyone who calls himself is not a muslim or something, that is for Allah to decide. But there is a very important concept in Islam called Ijma, which basically states that anything that is not found in Quran and authentic Ahadith (sayings of Prophet PBUH) can be decided by the consensus of the majority of the scholars. If everyone like me stands up and starts presenting their own interpretation (without deep knowledge into it), it's going to end up in total chaos (Al-Qaeda is a prime example of such attitude).

1 year,8 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Human rights. (537 comments)

LOL. I don't really know what to say to you. It's like if I say that on earth, gravity pulls upwards instead of downwards all the time because physics say so, and you reply that physics is just wrong!

I would seriously suggest you to go read Quran (preferably in Arabic if you can) instead of judging based on what Saudis or Pakistanis do. I'm not sure if you have figured it out yet, but you'll be amazed at what the reality is!

1 year,8 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

I'm not going to talk about how big a mess West really is, because it all boils down to which perspective you are looking at it from. Talk to any average person in a Muslim country how they perceive Western culture and they will tell you exactly how bad it really is.

As far as converting from a Muslim to another religion, it does happen, not quite a lot though. There is really no compulsion in Islam at all! From the Quran:

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. (2:256)
“For you is your religion and for me is mine” (109:6)
Allah told Muhammad (PBUH) that he's merely a warner, and he's not responsible if no one believes in him. When the Prophet (PBUH) himself was not responsible, I don't think anybody else is :).
  “If Allah so desired, all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them. Will you then force people till they are believers?” (10:99)
Even if one believes then goes back on his belief, it is Allah who will punish, not any human being. “Those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive nor guide them in the (right) way.” (4:137)

1 year,8 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Human rights. (537 comments)

I'm not sure where you got this from, but I can tell you that in Pakistan, an Islamic state, there is a church at the corner of my street where Christians gather every Sunday, and it's been there as far as I can remember. I've never heard anyone in my street throw a single insult their way. The pope of that church lives in the next street, where not a single issue has ever been raised by any of the muslims.

I'm amazed at the misinformation you get from and believe in. Every non-muslim community has a right to build their church/temple and worship as they please in a muslim country. FYI, did you know that every year, countless Sikhs come from India to Pakistan for pilgrimage, as their "Mecca" (Nankana Sahib) is situated in Pakistan. They are provided protection by the government of Pakistan themselves. Please get your information verified before spreading misinformation, as it's not doing anyone any good, including you.

1 year,8 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Human rights. (537 comments)

Yes I do. And the reason why I asked you to post the context was to find out how deep was your learning of Islam and Quran. I apologize for the long post, but I have no other option.

4:89 http://abdurrahman.org/qurantafseer/ibnkathir/ibnkathir_web/4.11879.html

This is your answer is on the next page, but I would recommend you to read the entire explanation of 4:88-90 to actually understand the context.

"(If they withdraw not from you, nor offer you peace) meaning, revert to peaceful and complacent behavior,

(nor restrain their hands) refrain from fighting you,

(take (hold of) them), capture them,

(and kill them wherever you Thaqiftumuhum.), wherever you find them,

(In their case, We have provided you with a clear warrant against them), meaning an unequivocal and plain warrant."

5:32-34
32. Because of that, We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with Al-Bayyinat, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits in the land!) (33. The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified, or their hands and their feet be cut off on opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.) (34. Except for those who (having fled away and then) came back (as Muslims) with repentance before they fall into your power; in that case, know that Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

  I don't think it needs any explanation. If someone wages a war against you, and are out to kill you and your entire family/tribe/nation, you will have no choice but to defend you till the threat is neutral, even if it requires killing the enemy.

Now I'll leave the rest for you to explore if you are interested.

May you find what you are looking for, insha'Allah

1 year,8 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

My point is that we lose the right to criticize others when our own house is a complete mess. If we still want to, it's our prerogative, but not many will take it seriously.

I respect your opinion and obviously disagree with it, and I'm actually impressed that you have read the books gone to other muslims and talk about it. I have never read it anywhere in Islam that every Tom Dick and Harry can force others to abide by the Shariah laws. It is only a Muslim state that can do that and that holds true for every other religious/agnostic state. The concept of da'wa (invitation) is to inform others what Islam is about, and it is purely their own choice whether they want to join it or not.

1 year,9 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Human rights. (537 comments)

All the quotations that you have posted above, kindly provide the details about when they were released, what was the event and why were they released.

I'll wait for your response.

1 year,9 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Human rights. (537 comments)

I very well can, but it will take me the whole day to list out hundreds of points in Shariah that respect human rights. For starters:

A few points from Quran:

http://www.quran-institute.org/articles/human-rights-in-the-quran-part-one

Please read the last sermon of Muhammad (PBUH) also:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/muhm-sermon.asp

You can go on and read the Seerah of Prophet (PBUH) in as much detail as possible (Sealed Nectar is an excellent book). Interestingly, Muhammad (PBUH) is the only prophet whose entire life has been documented in such detail. If you want some youtube videos on it, you can watch this series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOUp3ZZ9t3A

1 year,9 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

I have total respect for your values and ethics. However, most of the Muslim world thinks entirely the opposite of what you and most Westerners think. For us, living a life where you can have intimate relationship with ANYONE (including any kind of relationship with the ones from the same gender) without marriage is pathetic, deplorable and animalistic. You lose the right to criticize Shariah law when you can't put yourself in our shoes and look at your values and ethics from our point of view.

This discussion can go on and on, and I don't think I would like to write much on the internet about it. If you want to know more about Shariah law, I suggest you read Quran and Hadith before commenting on it. Thanks.

1 year,9 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Human rights. (537 comments)

Under Sharia, humans don't have rights, god has rights, humans only have responsibilities to god.

That's a gross misinterpretation of Shariah and Islam, seems like you have never read it. There are 2 types of rights in Shariah: Haqooq-Allah (Rights of God) and Haqooq-ul-Ibad (Rights of fellow human beings). Skipping on either of them is NOT acceptable in any shape or form.

1 year,9 days
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Saudi Justice: 10 Years and 2,000 Lashes For Internet Video of Naked Dancing

ashvagan Re:Stop Dismissing this with False Equivalencies (537 comments)

The problem is not with the Hudood Ordinance per se, but the lack of understanding of technology by the law makers (who are not very learned as far as sciences are concerned). For example, they are not willing to accept DNA tests as a valid testimony (I have no clue what went through their heads when they decided that, we can probably attribute to their utter lack of knowledge). The majority of the ordinance itself is according to Shariah law (again, accepting or rejecting that is based purely on your ideologies).

1 year,9 days

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