Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Comments

top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

That question is easy. Because the TC of Debian voted and decided to change the default init system to systemd.
If you start your own distribution and set up your own organization, then you can decide which default init system you are going to use.

3 hours ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

*breaking news* everything on a computer is binary.
As if there is any difference to use journald or grep or emacs to read the log. journald can even be statically linked without systemd, so that it can be put in BusyBox.
In addition, journald can put advanced features in the log, like signing, crypt, etc, and it have nice user interface, like journalctl --since "20 min ago"
And finally, you still can use syslog or rsyslog with journald.

Compatibility with a classic syslog implementation can be provided by letting systemd forward all messages via the socket /run/systemd/journal/syslog. To make the syslog daemon work with the journal, it has to bind to this socket instead of /dev/log

https://wiki.archlinux.org/ind...

Fine, I though we are talking of a commercial product (" 3. material created or produced and viewed in terms of potential sales"). So, how exactly is Red Hat benefiting by giving away a free init system that their direct competition can use? As for example SUSE Linux GmbH, Mandriva or Debian.

3 hours ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

In this threat you did not point to anything that is "anti-UNIX".
You just complained why systemd must be PID 1 and thus forces people to learn new stuff.
Or is the "UNIX way" that we must do everything with shell scripts?

3 hours ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

Systemd is modular and open source. I don't know what issues you have with it.

yesterday
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

How is systemd a product? How is Red Hat going to make money with it?
Red Hat is a company, they don't write software just for the fun of it.
Your bias against Red Hat developers can't be more obvious.
What do I care about some whining Slashdot comments? I have yet to read any technical argument against systemd, usually it's boils down to either of the following
- not "Unix"
- it's new
- binary logs
- it's from Lennart Poettering
And those are just idiotic arguments.

yesterday
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

Systemd is not a product of RedHat employees, Red Hat Linux is. And RedHat employees feel the need to develop systemd for the success of Red Hat Linux.
And Debian feels the need to replace sysvinit with a modern init system. It was either systemd or upstart, and upstart was not ready.

yesterday
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

Because systemd "respects the nature of Unix".

yesterday
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

My point was that systemd was tested for 3 years over 5 releases of Fedora.
And the vote was a split between systemd and upstart, which upstart being the least technical finished product (according to the Ubuntu devs).
And why do you have a bias against Red Hat developers?

yesterday
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

No matter how I swing it? How about I use my system, then I get So it's more like 5:1:1 in favour of systemd.
The Debian charta is using the Schwatz set to determine with system wins.

> A.6.6: Schwartz set is {D,U}
> A.6.8: There are no defeats in the Schwartz set, so the elector with
> the casting vote chooses which of these options wins.
>
> Per 6.3.2, the casting vote is held by the Chairman, who is currently
> Bdale.

http://lwn.net/Articles/585363...

yesterday
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

First, systemd does not replaces everything. It was voted by the technical committee of Debian. It does not forces you to install daemons. logind is replacing consolekid. Your statement is just BS based on ignorance.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...
The only systemd gets new is the core and the 5 daemons. systemd and journald are the core of systemd, logind is a replacement for consolekid (which is no more in development), networkd is optional, and user-session is just very simple to allow users to login and disallow login during shutdown.

yesterday
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

sysvinit is full of hacks, like start-stop-daemon, the mysterious /etc/init.d/functions, environment variables hackery like "# Check that networking is up.
[ "${NETWORKING}" = "no" ] && exit 6", loops, pid files, and so on. Which all belongs in a proper init system.

As PID 1 it is the parent process of all services, therefore it can observe them all. No PID file hackery needed.

rsyslog vs. journald you can read for yourself
http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/...
http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/...
http://lwn.net/Articles/470058...

xinetd and systemd
http://0pointer.de/blog/projec...
IMHO socket activation belongs into a init-system.

yesterday
top

Windows 10 Gets a Package Manager For the Command Line

devent Re:command line for Windows? (229 comments)

What is this Powershell terminal you speak of? If I google it, I find only

I'm not talking about the language itself, but the fact that to use Powershell I appear to have to use a single window that I can't set to the width of the screen, doesn't have tabs, has primitive cut and paste (seriously? No keyboard shortcuts and keyboard only highlighting line by line?). There's no history that can persist between sessions.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

And some third party terminals like
https://code.google.com/p/cone...

2 days ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

Then why you not trust the Debian developers to make a very informed decision about adopting systemd?
Fedora is using systemd since Fedora 15 (now we are at Fedora 20). That means 5 released of testing (three years) and adopted by Red Hat Enterprise Linux since version 7, the most enterprise-ish distribution. It works, it solves many issues, and it's easy and you can just as well use sysvinit scripts on a systemd distribution.

2 days ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:Are you sure? (851 comments)

Thx for the vote overview. As far as I can tell, 4 people voted for systemd, 2 for upstart (1 systemd, and 1 undecided as second). That makes already 5 people who regard systemd as the better choice. Then 1 vote for upstart and 1 vote for sysvinit (as second). So it's more like 5:1:1 in favour of systemd. So, I would call that an overwhelming majority. Debian's policy have also some strange rules which vote overrides which.

2 days ago
top

Windows 10 Gets a Package Manager For the Command Line

devent Re:command line for Windows? (229 comments)

It's still the same old DOS terminal. I mean, really, how hard can it be for Microsoft to develop something like Konsole or Yakuake?
Freely resizable window, freely choseable fonts and font sizes, fully supported copy and past, clickable URLs, etc.

2 days ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

Tracking of the started services, services dependencies, log, activation, system targets, declarative configuration, IPC, and sure a lot more that belongs in a init system. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

2 days ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

"Which one requires fewer commands" Are you kidding? Bash have a history.

"gives me everything since the day"
journalctl --since "20 min ago"

I have Fedora 20 and log rotate is enabled like usual.

ls /var/log/kdm* /var/log/kdm.log /var/log/kdm.log-20141005 /var/log/kdm.log-20141012 /var/log/kdm.log-20141028

2 days ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

How does systemd should know if Apache have a bad config? That is still the responsibility of Apache. But the other reply is much more insightful.
See http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

2 days ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

That is interesting, I didn't know that. But currently I'm only using systemd on my desktop PC.
That feature is really great to further increase uptimes. Even if you have to restart Apache, your users won't notice it.

2 days ago
top

Debate Over Systemd Exposes the Two Factions Tugging At Modern-day Linux

devent Re:How about we hackers? (851 comments)

I define hacks as some code that is retrofitted to do a task for which there is no mechanism. For example, sysvinit does not know if a service was really started or really terminated, hence you need hacks like "while kill -0 ${PID:-}" 2> /dev/null; do"
Using loops to keep track if the service was really terminated, or using sleep to wait for a service, are hacks. Or to use file system ordering of file names to determine which service should be started before another service (the links in /etc/rcX.d).
And then you need also "black boxes" like start-stop-daemon. Which is also a hack, because start/stop of daemons belongs in an init system.

2 days ago

Submissions

devent hasn't submitted any stories.

Journals

devent has no journal entries.

Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?