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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:No trust (535 comments)

First off let's be fair here. Lennart has limited contact with Debian. The people switching Debian over to systemd are the package maintainers and Debian project leadership. That happened because Unity failed which had been the direction Debian was heading in. Blaming Lennart is quite unfair. Debian adopted systemd because lots of people in the Debian community thought systemd was better, mainly because upstream developers like systemd. Until you accept that you are going to continue with conspiracy theories.

As far as real world projects and systemd systemd is already being used in large PaaS deployment how much more real world can you get than that?

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Systemd Is Inevitable (535 comments)

Well process management is the baggage. The stuff being replaced are the parts of legacy Linux that for one reason or another are incapable of handling chains of dependencies. If you mean why not just init, that's because initialization is just one possible state from the process manager needs to handle. Why not have it handle other states like suspending, hibernating, recovering, shutting down, daemon crashing.... ?

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:This is the same community (535 comments)

RedHat, HP, IBM, Saleforce, Intel .... are all staffed by posers.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Go back in time 5 years (535 comments)

Slackware is not long for initd. A few years. Crux is probably a better choice if you want to stand your ground.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Go back in time 5 years (535 comments)

I don't know of any in the mid 1990s who did that. Compatibility was worse on Linux than just about any commercial Unix. It also had a smaller toolbox. 7 years later that situation was totally reversed.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Go back in time 5 years (535 comments)

Absolutely true.

Let's say by 2016:

  7500 of the 8000 Debian packages have 0 systemd dependencies and those that even need init support can have easy scripts. No one is arguing about what to do in that case, include in init script where needed.

Let's say another 200 applications operate but with reduced functionality or security. How to handle that is complex and probably is best left to the judgement of the individual project maintainers. That's what the no vote meant, empowering them to make these choices.

Let's say another 300 applications have hard dependencies. That systemd is unavoidable without a major porting effort. This is where the core of the argument lies, what to do with these.

Now of course these 300 applications can start to chain down and create all sorts of other dependencies. Which is why a default was likely needed by the next version and helpful for Jessie.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Go back in time 5 years (535 comments)

RedHat has clearly picked their direction with IaaS and PaaS. Just as they moved from desktop to server they are moving from small server deployment to large server deployment, moving up market. Mostly I suspect traditionalist sysadmins were running CentOS anyway.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re: Go back in time 5 years (535 comments)

A Debian derivative doesn't exist yet. It will soon enough. The Linux community has a long track record of creating new distributions to fulfill niches. I think faith is warranted.

4 days ago
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Microsoft Azure Outage Across the Globe

jbolden Re:Yawn ... (165 comments)

FWIW it is fairly easy to create a structure to turn internal capex into opex. You can still do stuff internally, have your people working being paid via. a PEO / staff aug firm and have the hardware leased back to you. If the issue is they want opex that's easy enough to achieve under either model.

4 days ago
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Microsoft Azure Outage Across the Globe

jbolden Re:Awesome! wait on experts so we can run again (165 comments)

Large cloud companies treat large clients wonderfully. Large cloud companies treat midsized clients like crap. Midsized cloud companies treat midsized client quite well. This is the sort of thing you should be discussing with your cloud agent, getting you into a rightsized relationship with your vendor. Which BTW is also likely to save you money.

4 days ago
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Microsoft Azure Outage Across the Globe

jbolden Re:Yawn ... (165 comments)

well, I have yet to be convinced that any of these vendors can provide as much uptime and reliability as a decent IT department.

Your decent IT department doesn't have dozens of redundant colos attached to your network in class 2-4 datacenters. There are statistical measures of reliability for fortune 1000 companies regarding colo and the colo providers crush their internal. There are statistical measures of reliability regarding commercial cloud and they crush internal. Now that's not saying the best internal groups won't beat so-so clouds but they won't beat the best clouds. In the end it comes down to resources and focus and they win on both.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Systemd works OK in Fedora (535 comments)

Possibly since there is a fire. But I don't many Debian users who aren't system admins. It was never a particularly good desktop or workstation distribution. Once the debian repository became available in other distributions like Ubuntu...

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re: Go back in time 5 years (535 comments)

They are being forced to switch distributions not operating systems. And given the way Debian is configured the forced change is going to be from Debian to a child distribution of Debian that acts and feels like Debian. Not sure why that's such a terrible burden.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:bystander effect (535 comments)

RedHat makes RHEL which has longer support contracts thanDebian does. They just use the RHEL versions of RedHat software for Debian stable. Problem solved.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Where now? (535 comments)

Crux and Alpine have both said their long term plan is non-systemd. They intend to drop packages that can't be made to work without systemd.

Slackware is going to hold out as long as it can. Patrick doesn't think that's more a couple more years.

Gentoo because of the lack of integration will likely in a formal sense be able to hold out forever. They have however mostly abandoned their own OpenRC alternative. So they know they are in a holding pattern at best.

PCLinuxOS is KDE-desktop based. I'm shocked they aren't already systemd. No chance they holdout.

In the end, Lennart Pottering is on the best course to achieve what neither Bill Gates nor Darl McBride was able to do, in spite of their best efforts: destroying Linux. The Linux ecosystem was strong enough to withstand any outside attack, but even it can be brought down if it starts rotting from the inside.

Me thinks you need to get a grip.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Systemd Is Inevitable (535 comments)

where the initscripts morphed into wireable components so that the system administrator could define whatever network of dependencies he/she required.

That is exactly what systemd excels at, far better than init. It allows for complex definitions of dependencies. People who want chains of dependencies should be embracing systemd.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Debian OS is no longer of use to me now (535 comments)

I'm not buying it. Guys who do thousands of servers have been migrating towards PaaS and IaaS for a decade now unless they are all embedded servers or whatever. There is nothing in systemd that isn't far heavier than what you are already running if you are managing systems that large.

The vendors aren't providing an alternative to systemd. Use Crux or whatever.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:It was a no-win vote (535 comments)

Fork. Go ahead. The systemd people have always supported a child distribution of Debian that doesn't support systemd. That "threat" had the full support of systemd. In fact if you can submit patches to keep stuff working on initd as dozens if not hundreds of upstream developers start dropping init support all the better.

Please do it.

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Simple... (535 comments)

if journald simply made plaintext logging alongside (not as a downstream add-on by piping to syslog, natively doing it alongside binary data

What difference does it make is syslogd pipes to syslogd who writes to disk?

If a systemd unit could degrade to start without being able to talk to pid 1 or cgroup support available (with loss of function), then some debug activity is made more straightforward in a rescue environment

That's a better example. Mostly the assumption of syslogd people is the rescue environment is a different system. In other words if the system crashes then you boot to a lower level system and either

a) The node is diagnosed by another system
b) The node is blown away and reinstalled by another system

Which honestly is mostly how I've been fixing Linuxes for 2 decades even on single server. Boot from a CD based linux fix the main Linux and restart if I can't get a TTY running. If I can get a TTY running than initd worked...

If open ended init scripts were better accommodated and didn't try to forcibly constrain sysv init scripts to force it to fit the only models that systemd understands.

Systemd can run shell scripts. How is that any different?

4 days ago
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Debian Votes Against Mandating Non-systemd Compatibility

jbolden Re:Signs clear enough even for a layman (535 comments)

It possibly could have been phased for Jessie. If the proposal had been Jessie is a transitional distribution and the next one is systemd only, that might have worked. The problem is the anti-systemd people wanted non-systemd long term.

The option of a smooth transition is the sort of compromise that heated debate destroys.

4 days ago

Submissions

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Screen shots and light review of Microsoft Office 15 early beta

jbolden jbolden writes  |  more than 2 years ago

jbolden writes "Winsupersite has recently published a light review of the upcoming version of Microsoft Office Microsoft Office 15 Preview. The new Office a new Metro look and feel with more traditional elements showing the transition towards the Windows 8 paradigm. There is a button which resizes screen elements to make the interface touch acceptable. The mechanics of the ribbon interface have changed, though some of the menus are still too small to be usable with finger / touch. Skydrive is fully integrated into the save menu."
Link to Original Source
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Time for another round of Fink vs. Macports

jbolden jbolden writes  |  more than 3 years ago

jbolden (176878) writes "Its been a while since /. has had a discussion of Fink vs. Macports vs. other alternatives like Homebrew. I wanted to just have an open discussion on people's thoughts."
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FCC considering free internet for USA

jbolden jbolden writes  |  more than 5 years ago

jbolden (176878) writes "According to the Wall Street Journal the FCC is considering a plan to provide free wireless internet. The plan would involve some level of filtering but might allow adults to opt out. CTIA has argued that this business model has traditionally failed (see Slate magazine analysis as to why). Hearing are coming up soon, so /. seems like a good place to start a conversation on where the tech community is on this issue."

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