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Comment Re: evidence backed science (Score 1) 546

How many children do you want to die to make you believe in the facts?

A large randomized double-blind trial would result in lots of children getting a lot of preventable diseases, and will weaken herd immunity so that people who can't get vaccinated for certain reasons will be endangered. We know this.

And yes, I'm calling bullshit on your opinion. As long as you're not in the medical field, I just hope that people correctly classify you as an idiot and don't pay attention to you. If you are registered in that field, you need to lose your registration stat.

Comment Re:Ban them from the profession (Score 1) 546

In the US, there is a program to compensate people who suffer from vaccines. It isn't that expensive since most vaccines are really safe.

I believe it is possible to get paralysis or brain damage from extremely rare side effects of some vaccines. We've studied the heck out of vaccinations and autism and found no link.

Comment Re:Ban them from the profession (Score 1) 546

They are acting against professional standards, by promulgating dangerous nonsense related to their profession. I have no objection to nurses claiming that UFOs bring lizard people to run our governments. I do have objections to them deliberately trying to destroy people's health.

Comment Re: ...sufficiently tested by now (Score 1) 546

Peer-reviewed papers are not immune from judgment. Peer review is at best a defense against sloppy work, not fraud. When a paper seems sufficiently dubious, other people start examining everything about it carefully, finding (for example) lies about when autism started to make it look like vaccinations had something to do about it. In other words, Wakefield didn't present findings, he presented lies. Other scientists start running their own studies on the same subject, and find that there is no perceptible link between autism and vaccination. IIRC, Wakefield's co-authors didn't keep a careful eye on what he was doing, and disavowed his work.

You are therefore taking a very anti-scientific attitude by arguing in Wakefield's favor. You're showing a lot of bias by claiming that big pharma profits on vaccines (not very much, all things considered) and not looking into what Wakefield was trying to sell as a result of his faked results. I'm not accusing you of being a shill, I"m accusing you of being a "useful idiot" in the Leninist sense. You appear to be willfully ignorant.

As one on the autism spectrum, I object to you claiming that lives are thoroughly destroyed by ASD. I have a pretty good life. I have no way to compare it to the life I'd have without ASD, but I rather like how my life has turned out. (I will confess to jealousy of guys who knew how to get women to have sex with them, but I've been happily married for well over half my life now, so it all worked out.)

One thing I hate is people who, for whatever reason, spread dangerous misinformation that leads to children not only suffering needlessly but threatening the health of other children.

Comment Re: in the past (Score 1) 546

Hygiene played a very important part in health. It was what turned cities from population sinks to population sources. It only goes so far.

The effectiveness of vaccination has been demonstrated numerous times, both from epidemiological studies and just looking at who's been vaccinated and who gets something. Smallpox was eliminated by vaccination performed all over the world, in areas with wildly varying social, hygienic, medical, environmental, and nutritional conditions. Polio is either eliminated or confined to one small area in the world; I haven't been keeping track. Very simply, there's all sorts of evidence that vaccines work.

Dr. Wakefield published a fraudulent paper linking autism to vaccinations, apparently to try to sell his thimerosal-free vaccines (thimerosal is not present any more in first-world vaccines, although it's necessary because of bad transportation and storage conditions in less developed areas). The paper was examined and found to base its conclusions on lies. Since then, there's been a lot of study on vaccinations and autism, finding no link.

I don't know why delaying the measles part would be a bad idea, but I bet the CDC could tell you, except that you don't appear to believe in scientific conclusions. Last time I wondered about a certain vaccination, I found the CDC site had reasons for the recommendation.

An experiment with the MMR vaccine such as you suggest would be highly unethical, and would land the experimenters in a great deal of legal trouble, because it would involve arbitrarily depriving children of safe and very beneficial treatment. Double-blind experiments cannot always be carried out on humans, so we have to study some things in more roundabout ways.

Comment Re:Is that all (Score 1) 546

You don't become a board-certified physician or registered nurse on the way to work, and leave the certification or registration at work when you come home. You are a doctor or RN at all times. If you spout dangerous nonsense connected with your profession, you are likely to have your professional credentials removed as a safety measure.

In my experience, I am told the positive and negative possibilities when given drugs, including vaccines. Vaccinations typically come with a sheet of paper that lists them. Autism is not one of them, because there is no evidence that vaccination causes autism. If you want doctors to have to tell you that vaccination might cause it, you're demanding that they do something highly unprofessional and dangerous in the course of their duties. As far as painstaking research has shown, the vaccination schedule isn't going to raise or lower the autism rate, so you may as well get the vaccinations on schedule.

Anti-vax crackpots are peddling nonsense, particularly when they mention autism. Vaccines do have possible negative effects, and you'll easily find what they are if you care to look. Most of them are pretty darn safe, so you won't find much. I'm not offhand aware of vaccines against mild diseases that risk severe diseases, but I could be overlooking one where the probability of the severe disease is very very low.

Comment Re:Slapping time (Score 1) 546

Vaccines aren't 100% effective.

Thing is, they don't have to be 100% effective to eliminate disease. Most diseases infect a person and either they kill the person or the person gets well and usually can't transmit it. This means that diseases need new infections to exist. Reduce the number of people who can catch the disease to the point where each new case causes an average of, say, one-tenth of a case, and the disease will die out fast. Do it over the entire world, and unless the disease has non-human reservoirs (malaria, to name one) it goes the way of smallpox.

Comment Re:About time. (Score 1) 546

However, if someone was not vaccinated because a doctor said not to without valid medical reasons (some people can't be vaccinated, which is why herd immunity is important) and did contract a disease and died, a malpractice suit would be in order.

Nothing is perfectly safe. The current vaccination schedule is as safe as we can make it, balancing rare or minimal vaccine effects against the chance of getting a dangerous disease.

Comment Re:About time. (Score 1) 546

It's not vaccines because we've studied vaccines and autism enough to know. At one time, it would have been understandable to suspect a link, although if there were one it wouldn't take a fraudulent study to find it. Currently, while we don't know all possible causes of autism or consequences of vaccination, we know that, to a very high degree of accuracy, vaccinations don't cause autism.

Comment Re:About time. (Score 1) 546

To provide a medically uninformed speculation, I know an ASD person whose head was normal-sized at birth, whereas in other ways he was larger than normal. His head eventually did match his body, which means that his head had to grow more than normal. Since the brain is making connections in this period, I wondered if the additional growth might mess up brain development at an important time.

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