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Linus Torvalds Suspends Key Linux Developer

Soulskill posted about 6 months ago | from the arguing-about-penguins dept.

Open Source 641

alphadogg writes: "An argument between developers of some of the most basic parts of Linux turned heated this week, resulting in a prominent Red Hat employee and code contributor being banned from working on the Linux kernel. Kay Sievers, a well-known open-source software engineer, is a key developer of systemd, a system management framework for Linux-based operating systems. Systemd is currently used by several prominent Linux distributions, including two of the most prominent enterprise distros, Red Hat and SUSE. It was recently announced that Ubuntu would adopt systemd in future versions as well. Sievers was banned by kernel maintainer Linus Torvalds on Wednesday for failing to address an issue that caused systemd to interact with the Linux kernel in negative ways."

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First Post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661287)

YEAHHHHHHH

It's Kay's fault I didn't get First Post (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661383)

I would have gotten first post if I wasn't running both the base kernel’s debugging routine and that of systemd.

Re:First Post (5, Informative)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 6 months ago | (#46661461)

From the previous message in the thread, to which Linus was reacting:


It has come to our attention that a system running a specific user
space init program will not boot if you add "debug" to the kernel
command line. What happens is that the user space tool parses the
kernel command line, and if it sees "debug" it will spit out so much
information that the system fails to boot. This basically renders the
"debug" option for the kernel useless.

This bug has been reported to the developers of said tool
here:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/s... [freedesktop.org]

The response is:

"Generic terms are generic, not the first user owns them."

That is, the "debug" statement on the *kernel* command line is not
owned by the kernel just because it was the first user of it, and
they refuse to fix their bug.

I don't care if Kay wrote "Jesus 2.0". He broke kernel debugging for all development and responded to this with arrogant platitudes based on architecture principle, rather than join with cooperative interest to seek a solution.

Linus was restrained, in response to such a "community contributor". This is the Linux kernel, not Oxford dons, vying for college chairs.

Re:First Post (5, Informative)

NFN_NLN (633283) | about 6 months ago | (#46661507)

Here is the actual bug and arguement: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/s... [freedesktop.org]

Re:First Post (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661805)

For those of us lacking in perspective on how Fun! kernel debugging is, here is a voice from the MS side of things. Dangerous curveballs ahead.

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thenightwatch.pdf

systemd (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661289)

see title

informal poll (-1, Offtopic)

globaljustin (574257) | about 6 months ago | (#46661311)

who runs Linux these days?

for your **personal computer** not work terminal or music server

i'm not talking all FOSS and this doesn't include Android...I'm asking specifically about the Linux OS

also, please specify if you can dual boot w/ multiple OS's

Re:informal poll (0)

tthomas48 (180798) | about 6 months ago | (#46661359)

Me. Work and home. Ubuntu Gnome Trusty Tahr - I don't dual-boot. My wife runs Windows 8.1 and I have an OSX machine for development. I don't get why anyone runs Windows. I sort of get OSX, but I prefer Gnome.

Re:informal poll (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661557)

I don't get why anyone runs Windows.

Because it works just fine and it is what most people are familiar with? Plus out-of-the-box support for things like games and a wide array of mainstream consumer software.

I don't really get why anyone can be puzzled as to how Windows is a popular OS.

Re:informal poll (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661705)

XP is shutting down on April 8 guess what people will be switching to.

Re:informal poll (4, Insightful)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 6 months ago | (#46661789)

A pirated copy of Win7.

Re:informal poll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661885)

XP.

Re:informal poll (1)

rs79 (71822) | about 6 months ago | (#46661903)

No, they won't.

When there is a reason to, they will.

Note that WordStar and CP/M are still in use to this day.

Re:informal poll (2, Insightful)

Spiked_Three (626260) | about 6 months ago | (#46661665)

People run windows, because, ummm, maybe it has software that is usable?

Adobe apps for instance. Yes, I could run them on an overpriced mac, that is an option, if I do not mind being locked into the most obviously nefarious corporate slime in existence.

The fact that you don't understand this, means you probably are very limited in your understanding of how people use computers in general. That takes nothing away from your technical skills. Just wouldnt put you in charge of I.T. at a company bigger than say, 2.

Look, windows is still at over 80% market share. You are flat out ignoring reality when you say you dont get why anyone runs windows. It does not make you look smart, I'm sure that was what you were trying to accomplish.

Re:informal poll (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661675)

because the bulk of the software i use isnt available on linux. because the games i like arent available on linux. because it works pretty much out of the box for me. because my clients need me to develop software for windows and thats much easier to do in windows. because much of the peripheral hardware i use is only available for windows (or is a giant pain to get running anywhere else. and, yes, i have tried). and lastly, there is no incentive for me to move away from windows.

if linux is what you prefer or what works best for you, thats wonderful and im very happy for you. windows is what i prefer and works best for me.

Re:informal poll (1, Insightful)

ttucker (2884057) | about 6 months ago | (#46661701)

I used to be a die hard Linux guy, but for me OSX has always been the nothing works problem of Linux, mixed with an expensive, arrogant, asshole, flavor. Now I use Windows 7 on the desktop. It is pretty stable, and it is wonderful to have everything more or less just work.

Re:informal poll (5, Funny)

EvanED (569694) | about 6 months ago | (#46661719)

I don't get why anyone runs Windows.

I sometimes run Linux and sometimes run Windows. Why? Because it's nice for my OS to piss me off in different ways instead of always the same ways. :-)

Re:informal poll (1)

Bengie (1121981) | about 6 months ago | (#46661779)

Variety is the spice of life.

Mint (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661373)

I run Mint on my laptop...much better than the crappy Win8 it shipped with.

Re:informal poll (1)

DeTech (2589785) | about 6 months ago | (#46661389)

Ubuntu @ home.

Re:informal poll (1)

alci63 (1856480) | about 6 months ago | (#46661397)

Sure I do ! In fact, it has been my only OS since 1998. Since I unplugged my old Amiga. And no, I never had dual boot. Did I have some tougth times? Sure, I did. I still can remember the "optimized for IE" web, and activeX, and lack of hardware drivers... but, now. Well, it's just working out of the box, and I don't see any reason one would not use Linux (expect for gaming maybe, but this is slowly changing also, it appears).

*gasp* (1)

globaljustin (574257) | about 6 months ago | (#46661497)

I still can remember the "optimized for IE" web, and activeX

dude...you were in the shit...

activeX...browser wars...holy crap it brings nightmares

Re:informal poll (2)

rujasu (3450319) | about 6 months ago | (#46661399)

I run Linux as my primary OS on my home PC.

It has dual boot with Win7 (rarely used) and VirtualBox with WinXP (used somewhat often for a couple of programs).

Re:informal poll (1)

Dasher42 (514179) | about 6 months ago | (#46661417)

I've been running Linux on my desktop more than any other OS since 1998, and only sometimes do I set up dual booting. Usually Wine or VMs are enough compatibility, and I would rather code on a Linux machine than Mac or Windows anyday.

Re:informal poll (2)

emag (4640) | about 6 months ago | (#46661423)

Debian Sid @ home on my laptop & desktop
CentOS 5/6 @ work on my cluster/desktop
Android on my phone & tablet
Synology @ home for storage, so basically Linux there, too...
OpenWRT on my wireless routers (yes, plural) @ home, so Linux there *too*.

I guess you could say I run Linux...

quite a set-up (1)

globaljustin (574257) | about 6 months ago | (#46661519)

n/t

Re:informal poll (1)

savuporo (658486) | about 6 months ago | (#46661751)

If you have TV or any other internet connected consumer electronics elsewhere in your house, in 98% of the cases you run Linux there too.

Re:informal poll (1)

Scholasticus (567646) | about 6 months ago | (#46661453)

Okay, I'm going to assume that you mean Linux + GNU + X.org + GNOME/KDE/Xfce/LXDE or whatever. I do. It's all I use. I have Windows XP and Windows 7 in VirtualBox because occasionally a friend or family member will call me and ask me something like, "How do I ... whatever whatever."

Re:informal poll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661459)

CowboyNeal is my admin.

Re:informal poll (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 6 months ago | (#46661565)

Bob is my hope.

Re:informal poll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661469)

I run Debian at home on my main systems. Never been dual boot. I had a laptop that dual-booted, but only because I needed to use some software for schoolwork where the linux equivalents did not work well enough (Word/LibreOffice and flash - for a foreign language class.)

Dual boot Linux and OSX (0)

Marrow (195242) | about 6 months ago | (#46661491)

99.99 % spent in xubuntu

Re:informal poll (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661495)

Ran Ubuntu for a while until I bought a Mac. Having a real OS with a real CLI and good drivers to save battery life? Awesome.

Re:informal poll (0)

orasio (188021) | about 6 months ago | (#46661513)

I run ubuntu in my home computer. Also in my work computer.
My kid uses ubuntu also .
My wife uses Windows 8

No dual boot, anywhere.
I am thinking of changing my media center into either android or windows though, damn netflix. But right now it's Ubuntu-xbmc

Re:informal poll (4, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 6 months ago | (#46661569)

A kid'll use Ubuntu, too.
Wouldn't you?

Re:informal poll (2)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about 6 months ago | (#46661523)

I currently run openSUSE for its relatively up-to-date programs, working wireless drivers (especially for my previous system with a POS Broadcom chip), etc. I now have a system with slightly more Linux-friendly drivers (Intel wireless), I just have to wait for the major distros to support it because it's so new (Debian Testing supposedly does, I just don't want to run Testing...). I might then switch to another distro, but I'm staying with Linux. I primarily use the i3 window manager, except on occasion when I want to play a game on Steam (which doesn't seem to get along too well with i3, so I temporarily switch to KDE).

Ironically, after "upgrading" from the crap that is Windows 8 that the laptop came with to Windows 8.1, the damn operating system can't even boot half the time without locking up. Not that big of a deal, since I rarely need it... but god damn, does it get annoying when I would like to reboot into it for whatever reason. Even worse is when I spend 5 reboots and 15 minutes just to spend 2 or 3 minutes actually doing something in the OS.

Re:informal poll (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | about 6 months ago | (#46661529)

i'm not talking all FOSS and this doesn't include Android...I'm asking specifically about the Linux OS

So, you want to know who runs Linux, and you don't know what Linux means. Facepalm.

My desktop runs Fedora, and my laptops run Ubuntu Studio, which are versions of the GNU/Linux OS. My Transformer, my no-name tablet, and my phones run Android, an OS based on Linux.

I also have one cheap second-hand laptop that runs Windows, bought only because I had to make precise changes to the layout of a Word doc for my book [infamous.net] . Gross incompetence on the part of the person doing layout for my publisher.

Re:informal poll (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 6 months ago | (#46661541)

Translation: I'm moving the goalposts wayyyyy over there! Now tell me, who can make it to the goalposts?

Re:informal poll (1)

o'reor (581921) | about 6 months ago | (#46661543)

I use Linux at work and at home. So does my wife on her own laptop. I also maintain a Linux distro on my parents' laptop, which spares them the hassle of dealing with malware/viruses/adwares.

Despite having had trouble with trojans and adware on their Windows PC, and the fact that Linux would cover 100% of their computing needs, I still haven't convinced my inlaws to migrate to Linux, and they've had their PC unusable for a few weeks now, once again, due to adware.

YMMV.

Re:informal poll (0)

therealprologic (2118298) | about 6 months ago | (#46661563)

a) Linux IS NOT an OS. b) I run CRUX/Linux as my primary Desktop c) I have been using Linux-based OS(es) as my primary Desktop and Development platform for over 12 years.

Re:informal poll (1)

Handover Phist (932667) | about 6 months ago | (#46661589)

Slackware. Dual boot with Win 7 for War Thunder. If War Thunder ran easily on Slack I'd chuck the old 80 Gig drive.

Re:informal poll (1)

Handover Phist (932667) | about 6 months ago | (#46661681)

Wait, that's not quite right. The family likes to watch their flickershows so I installed an EXT3 driver for Windows and set up the XBox as a Windows Media Center extender to stream stuff to the TV. We gave up on cable TV a bit over a decade ago. From what I've seen at work on lunch breaks, that was the decision to go with.

Re:informal poll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661591)

I do, no dual boot whatsoever. Same at work

I must admit however that I have a virtual WinXP on my work computer. It is required for some part of the work I have to do.

Re:informal poll (5, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 6 months ago | (#46661597)

who runs Linux these days?

Linux is 25 years old now. You don't run it, you walk it slowly with a leash and let it have a pee on the front lawn.

Re:informal poll (0)

AvitarX (172628) | about 6 months ago | (#46661617)

I did until last year when I purchased a Macbook Pro with the 256GB SSD.

It's a work computer that I have total control over. Previously I had a thinkpad, Win7 for Creative suite, PowerPoint, and Trial Director, and Ubuntu for everything else (personal, and petty website work).

The new computer has a small hard drive, and rather than figure out howto:
1) triple boot
2) split it into three pieces

I use Win7 exclusively (I have a small OSX partition that I don't think has been booted since the first week I had the laptop).

Purchased the 13.3 inch for the lightness, and the screen. I can't wait until screens like this hit the PC world, bonus if it's cheaper even! Win7 suffers mildly on the screen, especially CS4, but it's totally work the minor annoyances to have real workspace when I'm off site for weeks at a time.

Re:informal poll (1)

roman_mir (125474) | about 6 months ago | (#46661623)

I've been purely on Ubuntu and now Mint, since 2006 and I switched a number of clients to Mint as well (a retail chain even).

In my company I set everybody up with a Mint system, I only allowed one person to have 2 (two) Windows machines at the same time, but his job requires this, we have to make sure our products are tested on Windows as well of-course.

Re:informal poll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661633)

Me. And other people who have a clue.

big troll or biggest troll? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661639)

flagged as inappropriate. Dice police on the way.

Re:informal poll (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 6 months ago | (#46661721)

My two laptops and desktop all run primarily linux. The desktop and one laptop can dual-boot windows, mostly for gaming (Space Engineers promises Linux support one day, but not yet) and to run a few windows-only programs. I could learn to use the Gimp, but Paint Shop Pro is what I know, and I'd rather not start over with a whole new interface. Rarely done though - I work almost entirely in linux.

Re:informal poll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661855)

I run GNU/Linux as my primary operating system at home and rarely boot the VM containing Microsoft Windows 7.

Re:informal poll (1)

hawguy (1600213) | about 6 months ago | (#46661905)

who runs Linux these days?

for your **personal computer** not work terminal or music server

i'm not talking all FOSS and this doesn't include Android...I'm asking specifically about the Linux OS

also, please specify if you can dual boot w/ multiple OS's

I run Ubuntu on my home and work desktops and manage a dozen Ubuntu desktops at work (mostly developers and customer service reps).

I thought Linux was the kernel so why isn't android a "Linux OS"?

Linus is getting old and cranky (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661317)

Time for that boy to move along and let someone with fresh ideas take over.

Re:Linus is getting old and cranky (5, Informative)

roman_mir (125474) | about 6 months ago | (#46661351)

Time for that boy to move along and let someone with fresh ideas take over.

- oh yeah, fresh ideas like: "you didn't build that".
Fresh ideas like: "the consumer created those jobs".
Fresh ideas like: "all responsibility is shared".

----

I think Linus is 100% spot on with his comment:

Key, I'm f*cking tired of the fact that you don't fix problems in the
code *you* write, so that the kernel then has to work around the
problems you cause. ....

But I'm not willing to merge something where the maintainer is known to not care about bugs and regressions and then forces people in other projects to fix their project. Because I am *not* willing to take patches from people who don't clean up after their problems, and don't admit that it's their problem to fix.

Kay - one more time: you caused the problem, you need to fix it. None of this "I can do whatever I want, others have to clean up after me" crap. .....
Linus

Re:Linus is getting old and cranky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661755)

God Bless Linus!

Re:Linus is getting old and cranky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661385)

His problem is that he believes he is right in all things and has a huge ego.

Re:Linus is getting old and cranky (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | about 6 months ago | (#46661849)

So you believe you are wrong?

Re:Linus is getting old and cranky (5, Interesting)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 6 months ago | (#46661501)

Kay is either an arrogant asshat or an aspberger's victim. Either way, he hasn't demonstrated an interest in collaborating on a solution for the whole forest, over the pure vision of his one, true tree.

Without Linus, Linux is doomed.

Re:Linus is getting old and cranky (1)

TheCarp (96830) | about 6 months ago | (#46661757)

Not so sure about that. The very fact that this is news tells me:

1. It doesn't happen too often. There have been a handful of these... over the course of a few years. If it was happening every day, we wouldn't see stories about Linus chewing out some dev, nobody would bother posting stories like this every week or even month for long.

2. Since these stories have occasionally cropped up, I can't think of a single serious kernel story I have seen of any kind. SO the kernel must be in pretty good, stable shape if this is all there is to report.

Linus is being Linus. (5, Insightful)

Lisias (447563) | about 6 months ago | (#46661329)

And this is good.

Quote from the Linus email:

Kay - one more time: you caused the problem, you need to fix it. None of this "I can do whatever I want, others have to clean up after me" crap.

Being Kay a Red Hat paid developer, perhaps it's not his entirely fault what's happening. But it's his name on the table, so it's his responsability nevertheless.

Re:Linus is being Linus. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661493)

Well, if Kay doesn't want to fix it, why doesn't Linus simply revert his buggy commit/branch?

I don't understand.

Re:Linus is being Linus. (5, Informative)

gigne (990887) | about 6 months ago | (#46661553)

Because the code that needs "fixing" is in systemd, not in the Linux codebase. therefore Linus cannot revert.

Re:Linus is being Linus. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661611)

because it's a bug in *systemd*, not in the kernel, but it prevents the kernel from loading in debug mode.

hold on (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661335)

Before everyone gets all shouty, lets remember that the kernel does all of their work in public and Linus just talks like a sailor. This doesn't need to be made into a bigger deal than it is just so commentators can have their pissing matches.

Re:hold on (3, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 6 months ago | (#46661393)

Linus just talks like a sailor.

Arrh, I dun think so me shiverin' matey!

harmless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661343)

seemed like a harmless pep talk move along

Someone has to be in charge (4, Interesting)

tomhath (637240) | about 6 months ago | (#46661347)

his complaint about systemd has been widely echoed in the Linux world, with prominent contributors like Ingo Molnar, slamming the “excessively passive/aggressive” attitude of the project’s maintainers.

If you ignore requests you piss people off. Sounds like banning the guy was the right thing to do.

Re:Someone has to be in charge (0, Flamebait)

bobbied (2522392) | about 6 months ago | (#46661763)

Ah come on. He really didn't "Ban the guy" he said he wouldn't accept any patches from him and merge them into the kernel. Torvalds is routinely rough with his contributors. As I figure it, this guy doesn't have enough devotion to satisfy Torvalds, maybe he has a REAL LIFE or something. Makes me glad I'm not a part of *that* or any other Torvalds run project..

really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661349)

You are telling me that Linus was doing it right, and the other person was doing it wrong??

Shocker.

Re:really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661537)

Linus is not right because he is the BDFL. He is right because he makes sure he's got his facts straight before he sends an email that he knows that everyone will read. Linus is doing a far better job as the maintainer of Linux than anyone else would, even if you take his insults into account.

If I was in charge, I wouldn't have waited years to ban him. I would have warned him the first time and thrown him out the second time.

So ?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661353)

Linus just says "fix your code, regression bugs are NOT acceptable". Seems he got suspected after *years* of doing this.

If this wasn't OSS or Linus, we wouldn't even hear about it. Someone would just get fired.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Re:So ?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661601)

Oh noes... they suspected him?

Wait... what? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661377)

Isn't this the same backwards logic schools use when disciplining students?

"For failing to do your homework, we won't let you do homework!! HA! That'll learn' ya!"

Re:Wait... what? (1)

DeTech (2589785) | about 6 months ago | (#46661419)

Linus seems more perturbed about the lack of accountability. Own your mistakes, Then fix them. If you can't, then ask for help.

Re:Wait... what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661439)

No, it's not the same. Any other questions?

Re:Wait... what? (2)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 6 months ago | (#46661451)

Not quite. From TFE:

Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.

More like "Correct your previous assignments until you can turn in more assignments."

Re:Wait... what? (1)

armanox (826486) | about 6 months ago | (#46661465)

No - it's saying since you did your project wrong, we aren't changing how ours works so that you don't have to correct yours.

Misleading title... (5, Informative)

egarland (120202) | about 6 months ago | (#46661391)

"I'm not accepting any patches until you fix your bugs" is hardly suspending someone, it's re-focusing them. This is an important part in any software project, and Linus is doing it well here. There's no ambiguity or hyperbole, just straightforward communication identifying issues and prompting action to correct them.

"Start fixing your shit" isn't even remotely the same thing as "stop doing things".

Re:Misleading title... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661477)

I never thought I'd see the day when Slashdot would post such blatant and sensationalist anti-Linux FUD. What planet is this? How did I get here?

Re:Misleading title... (-1, Offtopic)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 6 months ago | (#46661619)

I never thought I'd see the day when Slashdot would post such blatant and sensationalist anti-Linux FUD. What planet is this? How did I get here?

Three letter answer: NSA.

Re:Misleading title... (1)

Nimey (114278) | about 6 months ago | (#46661739)

You must be new here. It's posted blatant and sensationalist FUD many times before, just not necessarily Linux-oriented.

Re:Misleading title... (2)

evilviper (135110) | about 6 months ago | (#46661727)

"I'm not accepting any patches until you fix your bugs" is hardly suspending someone,

Only because that's an inaccurate misquote. Let's try the real thing:

"I will *not* be merging any code from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed. This has been going on for *years*, and doesn't seem to be getting any better."

That's not a "fix this bug first" message... That's a much more general and sweeping "you suck, so you're fired," message.

Of course both Kay and Linus reserve the right to change their minds and play nice together in the near future, but that doesn't sound likely.

When valuable people can't work together... (-1)

davidwr (791652) | about 6 months ago | (#46661403)

... everyone suffers.

A general word to any leader who prevents a highly-valued contributor from contributing: If enough influential downstream users don't like this, you may not have the political capital to do this the next time you think you need to do the same thing.

This is not a comment on this specific situation - I am way too ignorant to even begin to know if Linus or Sievers has the higher moral ground or for that matter if either of them have the higher moral ground. It's just a general warning that this kind of action may require spending "political capital," and political capital can run out quickly if it is not continually re-earned.

Re:When valuable people can't work together... (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661533)

so, basically this is all about you.

So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661559)

So you didn't read the article and are pontificating just for the hell of it.
This comment is very valuable.

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661773)

I give Linux ~20-30 years before it becomes a Failed OS

Doesn't really surprise me. (1)

Kremmy (793693) | about 6 months ago | (#46661409)

Maybe people should be paying attention to the sources of the crap they're trying to wedge into our stable systems.

Inaccurate summary (4, Informative)

gwstuff (2067112) | about 6 months ago | (#46661435)

First the idea of "Suspending" a kernel developer is inane. Kernel developers don't work for Linus. Anyone can fork the kernel and work on his own version of it. Furthermore, Kay can write code that other people audit, modify and submit further.

Secondly, it's not an 'indefinite, unconditional ban' as suggested by the summary. Here's the specific line from Linus' email:

Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code
from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.

In other words he might start accepting patches from him if he changed his style of operating.

Re:Inaccurate summary (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 6 months ago | (#46661551)

Anyone can fork the kernel and work on his own version of it

Yes, only hardly anyone ever does it with projects as massive as the Linux Kernel. Just look at how many years it took for X.org to split from X11 - or heck, even the many half-assed and failed attempts at forking off Slashdot over the Beta issue.

It takes a lot of fustration building up for many years in many talented and dedicated people to pull off a big fork successfully.

Re:Inaccurate summary (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46661679)

The kernel was unofficially forked by RedHat and others in the 2.4 era, because "Linus doesn't scale". That lead the whole Bitkeeper/Git saga and an big reform of Linux development procedures. It was a very serious issue, if Linus didn't get his shit together they were ready to maintain the kernel through some other institution.

Re:Inaccurate summary (1)

Bengie (1121981) | about 6 months ago | (#46661859)

Linus owns the trademark to Linux, so RedHat could not claim to be Linux if Linus decided.

Re:Inaccurate summary (2)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 6 months ago | (#46661663)

First the idea of "Suspending" a kernel developer is inane.

Of course. It just means that Red Hat got a ... red card?

Developer "suspended"? (1)

sanvila (659083) | about 6 months ago | (#46661485)

This is not "your commit privileges are revoked".

They are using git, so this is "I'm not pulling changes from you" instead.

Way to feed the trolls with a poor summary (5, Informative)

rs1n (1867908) | about 6 months ago | (#46661517)

Kay was not banned. Linus simply said he would not merge anything from Kay [b]until[/b] he got his act together.

Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.

Re:Way to feed the trolls with a poor summary (1)

DeTech (2589785) | about 6 months ago | (#46661581)

exactly.
"No Mo' Shit, 'till u fix Yo Shit."

Short story: See to what Linus responds (5, Informative)

advid.net (595837) | about 6 months ago | (#46661671)

The message [iu.edu] to which Linus responds is also interesting:

Short story:

The systemd guy uses the debug keyword on kernel command line to spool a huge log - which can hang the boot process, and that is the problem.
Then the same guy claims that the debug keyword is generic so it can't be reserved by the kernel, even if it's been used first by it since a long time...

I can say that Linus is right there, for sure. He's maybe too kind...

Just pointing out that Linus is usually fair (5, Insightful)

rabtech (223758) | about 6 months ago | (#46661673)

Linus is generally fair from what I can tell, and does not except himself from criticism. In that very thread:

Yeah, what Andrew said. My suggestion of per-task or per-cred is
obviously moronic in comparison.

Linus "hangs head in shame" Torvalds

Someone proposed a better idea and Linus immediately admits his idea was worse and moves on. That was also one of Steve Jobs' greatest talents, even though it's in a completely different sphere. He originally said "no" to iPods for Windows and the iOS app store. People presented their case and he changed his mind.

We should all be so willing to admit when someone else has a better idea or we were wrong.

Bullshit Summary (3, Informative)

johnsie (1158363) | about 6 months ago | (#46661693)

They just aren't accepting code from him until he fixes that issue. The summary makes it sound much more dramtic than it really is.

Ubuntu only AFTER Debian! (1)

rstanley (758673) | about 6 months ago | (#46661777)

It was recently announced that Ubuntu would adopt systemd in future versions as well.

Yes, but only AFTER Debian, the Distro that Ubuntu, (and many other Distros) are based on, made the decision to switch to systemd. Now if Ubuntu would just go along with Wayland, ...

Linus has the final say in the Kernel, and I have to agree with his decision. He has an excellent track record! ;^)

Spongeworthy? (3, Funny)

Virtucon (127420) | about 6 months ago | (#46661799)

This story somehow reminds me of the Seinfeld Spongeworthy episode. Elaine finds out that the contraceptive sponge is no longer manufactured so she hoards them and then chooses her lovers based on the fact of whether or not she thinks they're Spongeworthy. I think in this case Linus doesn't have enough sponges left to waste.

Linus is interested in quality (2)

erroneus (253617) | about 6 months ago | (#46661839)

I really and truly respect that.

I have had more than enough experience in dealing with "this is how I do it!" developers. We're talking about writing code -- a set of instructions to accomplish things usually performed by an electronic machine. Things definitely become complex and even confusing at times, but it's NOT MAGIC. And when people need to work with developers and developers with developers and all that, I have run short on patience where some developers believe they are the thing and not the project or the community affected by the project.

To me, the community which uses the project or is affected by the project is the thing. If you write for results, then you agree. If you write to make yourself proud? You're just a bit too self-absorbed. (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being happy and proud of your work, but what you want should never be the thing.)

I just wish Linus would go kick some GNOME team ass and share some wisdom with GIMP developers as well.

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